Commentary on Islam and Jafar's exit from here.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

A commentary on Jafar's exit and Islam's menace to this nation.

Jafar had some members here fooled about his true nature and faith.
I battled him for over 2 years and he did not run away as long as he saw others defending or else commiserating with this subterfuge he engaged in here.

Yet this last attack on Israel by its avowed enemies he saw those he thought to be winning over question him , his motives and even demand he condemn Hamas. This he would never do(condemn Hamas) but the icing on the cake was he saw those he thought to be winning over were still firmly American, firmly in grasp of which party was in the wrong and not as won over as he had imagined.

Whereas my many hundreds of posts did nothing to run him away(in fact that kept him here to try to refute) , the attacks on his comments siding with terrorists by those he thought in his camp did run him away.

The way I see it , he in his heart, thought to be winning over certain members and that was enough for him to remain to battle with myself and a few others here dedicated to revealing the truth about Islam. When it finally dawned upon him that his 2 years+ activity here had truly won nothing for his beloved religion -he like every muslim coward broke and ran away.

Must have been a severely crushing blow to find out that all his lying and deceiving had been in vain.
Such that he did not leave a farewell speech or a vindictive attack and summation of how wicked we infidels were for not accepting his Allah inspired lies .
.
This is exactly how they play nice to deceive, win over and/or blind people to the true evil they represent, promote and act with.
Jafar understood that the American muslims had the greatest audience worldwide and thus were key in maintaining the great lie about Islam being a --"peaceful"-- religion!

A shame as it was very instrumental to have him here attempting to defend the indefensible !
Each time he failed or ran away from a truth revealing the lies that Islam is based on and it promotes more readers got to see the manipulations Islam employs to deceive not only its own blinded followers but those it seeks to ultimately convert or utterly destroy.

Jafar left-"ran way", certainly not from me, -- he ran from the TRUTH. The truth that his lies had truly won nothing here IMHO.
And that folks is why he will not ever return. Facing such truth meant either embrace it or running away to stay in the darkness..
He ran! As a true believer all that he represented here about his character was an act for in his heart he is a true muslim, a true deceiver and yes if ever called a true murderer. For every true muslim is just that--a murderer, some just have not yet been called to do the actual deeds but in their heart they all hate all that is not Islam!

The tragic , sad and soon to be very destructive reality is they have this nation's majority fooled into believing the great lie!
That will at some point in our future(far sooner than most think possible) cause the death of millions of non-muslims.
That it will do if this nation doesn't turn to face the truth and act in accordance to what must be done to counter this menace!
For ISIS AND /OR IT'S COUNTERPART will one day be openly operating here with impunity IMHO. Not far fetched, CAIR operates here now with our government's blessing(and adamant support) and it is a terrorist organization. Nobody thinks a thing about CAIR and what it does everyday to destroy this nation , while supporting terrorists group around the world. Our government turns a blind eye to it all.
Robert Lindley

[Drummond]

A commentary on Jafar's exit and Islam's menace to this nation.

Jafar had some members here fooled about his true nature and faith.
I battled him for over 2 years and he did not run away as long as he saw others defending or else commiserating with this subterfuge he engaged in here.

Yet this last attack on Israel by its avowed enemies he saw those he thought to be winning over question him , his motives and even demand he condemn Hamas. This he would never do(condemn Hamas) but the icing on the cake was he saw those he thought to be winning over were still firmly American, firmly in grasp of which party was in the wrong and not as won over as he had imagined.

Whereas my many hundreds of posts did nothing to run him away(in fact that kept him here to try to refute) , the attacks on his comments siding with terrorists by those he thought in his camp did run him away.

The way I see it , he in his heart, thought to be winning over certain members and that was enough for him to remain to battle with myself and a few others here dedicated to revealing the truth about Islam. When it finally dawned upon him that his 2 years+ activity here had truly won nothing for his beloved religion -he like every muslim coward broke and ran away.

Must have been a severely crushing blow to find out that all his lying and deceiving had been in vain.
Such that he did not leave a farewell speech or a vindictive attack and summation of how wicked we infidels were for not accepting his Allah inspired lies .
.
This is exactly how they play nice to deceive, win over and/or blind people to the true evil they represent, promote and act with.
Jafar understood that the American muslims had the greatest audience worldwide and thus were key in maintaining the great lie about Islam being a --"peaceful"-- religion!

A shame as it was very instrumental to have him here attempting to defend the indefensible !
Each time he failed or ran away from a truth revealing the lies that Islam is based on and it promotes more readers got to see the manipulations Islam employs to deceive not only its own blinded followers but those it seeks to ultimately convert or utterly destroy.

Jafar left-"ran way", certainly not from me, -- he ran from the TRUTH. The truth that his lies had truly won nothing here IMHO.
And that folks is why he will not ever return. Facing such truth meant either embrace it or running away to stay in the darkness..
He ran! As a true believer all that he represented here about his character was an act for in his heart he is a true muslim, a true deceiver and yes if ever called a true murderer. For every true muslim is just that--a murderer, some just have not yet been called to do the actual deeds but in their heart they all hate all that is not Islam!

The tragic , sad and soon to be very destructive reality is they have this nation's majority fooled into believing the great lie!
That will at some point in our future(far sooner than most think possible) cause the death of millions of non-muslims.
That it will do if this nation doesn't turn to face the truth and act in accordance to what must be done to counter this menace!
For ISIS AND /OR IT'S COUNTERPART will one day be openly operating here with impunity IMHO. Not far fetched, CAIR operates here now with our government's blessing(and adamant support) and it is a terrorist organization. Nobody thinks a thing about CAIR and what it does everyday to destroy this nation , while supporting terrorists group around the world. Our government turns a blind eye to it all.
Robert Lindley:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[tailfins]

Wowsers! No one can be as awesome as you are. Jafar was a guy with an opinion. Opinions are like assholes; everybody has one.


Helpful hint: Opinions can't be classified as true or false. That's why you use opinion words with online reviews so you can't get sued for defamation.

[Kathianne]

Wowsers! No one can be as awesome as you are. Jafar was a guy with an opinion. Opinions are like assholes; everybody has one.


Helpful hint: Opinions can't be classified as true or false. That's why you use opinion words with online reviews so you can't get sued for defamation.

I have to agree with you. Most here have very strong opinions and have every right to hold such and argue for those who disagree or try to convince others to join them.

What I find troublesome, from both those on the right and the few to someplace left of them is the fallacy of thinking that stating their opinion is fact. It may be a fact that they hold that opinion, that is very different than saying their points made are facts.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Wowsers! No one can be as awesome as you are. Jafar was a guy with an opinion. Opinions are like assholes; everybody has one.


Helpful hint: Opinions can't be classified as true or false. That's why you use opinion words with online reviews so you can't get sued for defamation.

Stated as you ignore the religion he was a member of and the fact that he supports muslims terrorists murdering innocent women and children. Wake up if possible but with your mindset on this issue I think it is not possible.
I see you fail to understand that his opinion supported muslim terrorists and the DELIBERATE murder of innocent WOMEN AND CHILDREN that they so happily engage in-in fact that they prefer!
Doesn't such a fact even register with you?
Apparently not..
Don't give me any hints dude.
I knew more about reality and life by age 20 than you'll ever know!
Proven just now by your comment to me..


http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?37131-Most-recent-muslim-terrorist-attacks

-Tyr

[aboutime]

I am disheartened, and saddened over reading how an admitted supporter of Terror, who was a member here, has so many who actually feel a need to defend him. He admitted to his support of Terrorists, and Terror groups many, many times. But, like our Pretend President who is selling our nation down the river. We have members who actually feel sorry for such a person...to be fair?
Really?

[Kathianne]

I am disheartened, and saddened over reading how an admitted supporter of Terror, who was a member here, has so many who actually feel a need to defend him. He admitted to his support of Terrorists, and Terror groups many, many times. But, like our Pretend President who is selling our nation down the river. We have members who actually feel sorry for such a person...to be fair?
Really?

Where do you see any 'defense' of Jafar? He was expressing himself on a messageboard, which falls within our first amendment. Indeed this current administration would like to see many of us censored, but that dog won't bark.

It seems to me that some of us have a problem very similar to what they know the government would like. Silencing differing views.

[aboutime]

Where do you see any 'defense' of Jafar? He was expressing himself on a messageboard, which falls within our first amendment. Indeed this current administration would like to see many of us censored, but that dog won't bark.

It seems to me that some of us have a problem very similar to what they know the government would like. Silencing differing views.


Kathianne. I agree with you. BUT...In no way should any of us allow someone like jafar to abuse our 1st amendment...as he did many times here, but nearly sanctioning, and welcoming the Death Squad mentality of Hamas, and Hezbollah which....if you cared to remember, or read. He fully supported, and even called them Patriots for their cause; which he also REFUSED to discredit.
Like our politicians, and other idiots. Our enemies have learned HOW to use our Constitution AGAINST US.
There is great difference between offering an Opinion, and applauding the work of MURDERERS. Like those who would happily MURDER your children too!

[Kathianne]

Kathianne. I agree with you. BUT...In no way should any of us allow someone like jafar to abuse our 1st amendment...as he did many times here, but nearly sanctioning, and welcoming the Death Squad mentality of Hamas, and Hezbollah which....if you cared to remember, or read. He fully supported, and even called them Patriots for their cause; which he also REFUSED to discredit.
Like our politicians, and other idiots. Our enemies have learned HOW to use our Constitution AGAINST US.
There is great difference between offering an Opinion, and applauding the work of MURDERERS. Like those who would happily MURDER your children too!

I'm trying to have a discussion, not trying to put anyone down. Truth is, even if he was arguing in favor of the tactics, that falls within the constitution. However if he threatened to actually do something even if not in the US, staff would report that to the FBI. Really no choice.

I believe that communism is and was wrong. However, you or anyone else has a right to join that party and vote for their candidates. It's protected by the 1st. Same with burning a flag-both of us might warn that we and others wouldn't stand by while watching, but if it was the burner's property, we might find ourselves in trouble. Now that's a 'fact.' Then again, police have discretion.

My point is that the left can vehemently disagree with you, GW, tea parties. Indeed they can call names, etc. It really won't do anything to change minds, just piss you off.

More effective, IMO is to argue your opinions and provide reasonable back up of them. While it may not change minds, makes them look idiotic to call you names.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I have to agree with you. Most here have very strong opinions and have every right to hold such and argue for those who disagree or try to convince others to join them.

What I find troublesome, from both those on the right and the few to someplace left of them is the fallacy of thinking that stating their opinion is fact. It may be a fact that they hold that opinion, that is very different than saying their points made are facts.




http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?37131-Most-recent-muslim-terrorist-attacks

My stand is based on fact and years of research.. I make no demands that anybody else agree fully with me. I do however hold that those who disagree or else are apathetic to be foolish, uninformed, ignorant and/or supportive to some degree of the savagery..
If we see evil we are to oppose it, not ignore or attempt to justify it..
Those now not actively opposing the very great evil (Islam) are in the wrong , usually gullible and in my opinion without any true sense of justice, mercy or even commonsense..

I am willing to fight and die for my stand on this issue as it is the biggest future threat to my kids and grandkids that this nation faces.
Disagree fine, that's your right but this evil is real , is murdering now and will not ever stopped unless defeated in battle..
When they get their damn Caliphate(Obama helping that) and nukes it going to be hell on earth. For they are the very most likely ones to use nukes on USA or Israel , far more likely than any other non-muslim nation. By far the most likely to start WW3 and yes Iran will get nukes and will become leader of that Muslim Caliphate. The goal of that Caliphate is well known--the utter destruction of little Satan, then later big Satan.
Little Satan is Israel, big Satan is USA.. THOSE ARE WELL KNOWN FACTS..
I hope this clarifies my stand on this issue .
My opinion on Jafar is that he was a propagandist for Islam here and acted accordingly. I never once called for him to leave or be banned.
I thought it a bad thing for him to leave myself.. --Tyr

[Kathianne]

Kathianne. I agree with you. BUT...In no way should any of us allow someone like jafar to abuse our 1st amendment...as he did many times here, but nearly sanctioning, and welcoming the Death Squad mentality of Hamas, and Hezbollah which....if you cared to remember, or read. He fully supported, and even called them Patriots for their cause; which he also REFUSED to discredit.
Like our politicians, and other idiots. Our enemies have learned HOW to use our Constitution AGAINST US.
There is great difference between offering an Opinion, and applauding the work of MURDERERS. Like those who would happily MURDER your children too!

Again, who was applauding the work of murderers? Jafar? Me? Hardly. That he didn't agree that all Muslims want to do what Hamas, Hizbollah, ISIS, al Queda, etc., but 'understood' what fuels them, speaks more of religious indoctrination and cultural identification.

Indeed if not going to work in a few, I'd hunt up some of my arguments against his 'understanding,' and the terrorism contained within Hamas Charter.

[Kathianne]

My stand is based on fact and years of research.. I make no demands that anybody else agree fully with me. I do however hold that those who disagree or else are apathetic to be foolish, uninformed, ignorant and/or supportive to some degree of the savagery..
If we see evil we are to oppose it, not ignore or attempt to justify it..
Those now not actively opposing the very great evil (Islam) are in the wrong , usually gullible and in my opinion without any true sense of justice, mercy or even commonsense..

I am willing to fight and die for my stand on this issue as it is the biggest future threat to my kids and grandkids that this nation faces.
Disagree fine, that's your right but this evil is real , is murdering now and will not ever stopped unless defeated in battle..
When they get their damn Caliphate(Obama helping that) and nukes it going to be hell on earth. For they are the very most likely ones to use nukes on USA or Israel , far more likely than any other non-muslim nation. By far the most likely to start WW3 and yes Iran will get nukes and will become leader of that Muslim Caliphate. The goal of that Caliphate is well known--the utter destruction of little Satan, then later big Satan.
Little Satan is Israel, big Satan is USA.. THOSE ARE WELL KNOWN FACTS..--Tyr

I agree that those who act to kill and encourage more to do so, need to be destroyed. We don't disagree on that.

What I don't agree with is that adopting a 'kill all' and 'all believe' is ok. Nor do I like the idea of shutting down discussion because someone disagrees with me.

Name calling doesn't accomplish much, other than pissing people off.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I agree that those who act to kill and encourage more to do so, need to be destroyed. We don't disagree on that.

What I don't agree with is that adopting a 'kill all' and 'all believe' is ok. Nor do I like the idea of shutting down discussion because someone disagrees with me.

Name calling doesn't accomplish much, other than pissing people off.

Lets discuss, I am all for more discussion on this topic, certainly not for less. I understand people taking a more moderate approach-which you may do. What I totally reject are those claiming its not a real threat and its conspiracy theory crap, etc..
Iran is currently nuking up and Obama is helping them and attacking Israel every way he can as of now.
Sure, there is much to discuss.
And by the way my remarks were not aimed at you (in any negative way) my friend. I respect your rights every bit as much as you respect mine.
That is a solid gold fact.. -Tyr

[Kathianne]

Lets discuss, I am all for more discussion on this topic, certainly not for less. I understand people taking a more moderate approach-which you may do. What I totally reject are those claiming its not a real threat and its conspiracy theory crap, etc..
Iran is currently nuking up and Obama is helping them and attacking Israel every way he can as of now.
Sure, there is much to discuss.
And by the way my remarks were not aimed at you (in any negative way) my friend. I respect your rights every bit as much as you respect mine.
That is a solid gold fact.. -Tyr

I agree, though I need to go to work for the next 8 hours. ;)

I think if more approached those they disagee with in the same way, there would be more posting and more reasonableness reached. I'd advise Congress and the administration and Sony executives to do the same.

I'll respond more when I get home or tomorrow when I'm off.

[aboutime]

Why is there somehow a feeling always present here, where we feel a need to always apologize, or make clear, we didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings because we Dare to disagree?

That seems to be the major problem across this whole nation. All of us feel we must tread lightly, and explain how we don't really intend to hurt someone else's feelings...because we don't want to appear as being so different, we might lose a friend?

Are we so worried about WHAT OTHER PEOPLE might think, that we have to be very careful, and not hurt their feelings because...they may not like us if we do?

I will not apologize anymore for speaking my mind here. It seems this forum for all of us, has become somewhat of the last REAL place we can actually say WHAT is on our minds without worry.

If anyone dislikes, or is offended with how I share my thoughts, or opinions here. Please keep in mind.
DP is not a Popularity Contest, and None of us will Win, or Lose anything for what we say.
Our children, friends, neighbors, and other relatives across this nation have LOST their ability to actually SPEAK, Face-to-face, look one-another in the eye, or communicate without TYPING short little abreviations on electronic devices that PREVENT other human beings from Seeing....WE DISLIKE THEM, HATE THEM, and WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM.

And we still have to come here, worried we might hurt someone's feelings?
Really?

[fj1200]

A commentary on Jafar's exit and Islam's menace to this nation.

Or... there's no point in discussing with people who only yell louder.

[tailfins]

I'm trying to have a discussion, not trying to put anyone down.

I will then. He's an unproductive bump on a log, collecting a monthly government check. Jafar runs a company that provides for multiple families. That's more than you can say for Abou .

[revelarts]

Wowsers! No one can be as awesome as you are. Jafar was a guy with an opinion. Opinions are like assholes; everybody has one.

Helpful hint: Opinions can't be classified as true or false. That's why you use opinion words with online reviews so you can't get sued for defamation.


I have to agree with you. Most here have very strong opinions and have every right to hold such and argue for those who disagree or try to convince others to join them.

What I find troublesome, from both those on the right and the few to someplace left of them is the fallacy of thinking that stating their opinion is fact. It may be a fact that they hold that opinion, that is very different than saying their points made are facts.

maybe i'm misunderstanding you both.
And it's a theme i'm not able completely to address clearly myself but I think you guys are in a sense WRONG.

there is REALITY.

If we don't want to play philosophical games I think each of you would agree that YOU exist.
that's not "opinion" that's "fact" that's reality.

There's A WHOLE lot of information discussed that's on that level.
and some people do deny certain factual realities or certain historical realities.
When they/we do we may end up with different OPINIONS or conclusions but certain facts don't qualify as such.

that the U.S. has a BIGGEST military in the world is a FACT.
the idea that the U.S. as the BEST military in the world is an Opinion.

the U.S. bill of rights says that there should be no cruel or unusual punishment is a FACT
what cruel and unusual punishment IS is an opinion... to a certain degree.
(if it's to be applied to your kid and your worse enemy equally how might you define it)

the classification of persons as "human" "homo sapien sapien" "mankind" is a FACT.
whether or not a specific person or group is HUMANE is an opinion.

A person who has been killed is a FACT.
IF there's video evidence of it, it can be said a certain person did it is a FACT.
whether or not it's murder can be an opinion.
If there's no video an we have to use other evidence to determine the killer(s).
the amount of good factual evidence can determine to various degrees the MORE LIKELY fact of who did it.
Some people in the end may claim it's a jury's opinion but depending of the amount and quality of facts available, those people may be full of crap and just trying to make excuses for the killer for emotional, political or personal reasons.

Said all that to say
It's a bit loose to say there are no facts presented on the board or elsewhere by each of us from time to time.
Or that all of our assertions should be accepted or treated if they are just as rational as everyone else's.

It's fine for anyone to NOT to accept or ignore certain facts and stand by opinions that conflict with facts.
But they don't get credit that their denial of certain aspects of reality on an issue means their OPINION is EQUAL to others presentation of hard facts or conclusions BASED on quality facts and sound reason.

Everyone has a right to their own opinions but all opinions are cannot be considered equally valid.
But some comments are FACTS and some opinions are --in fact-- factually wrong.

[aboutime]

I will then. He's an unproductive bump on a log, collecting a monthly government check. Jafar runs a company that provides for multiple families. That's more than you can say for Abou .


tailfins. Thanks so much for exposing your endless hypocrisy, based on ignorance for all of us again.

[tailfins]

maybe i'm misunderstanding you both.
And it's a theme i'm not able completely to address clearly myself but I think you guys are in a sense WRONG.

there is REALITY.

If we don't want to play philosophical games I think each of you would agree that YOU exist.
that's not "opinion" that's "fact" that's reality.

There's A WHOLE lot of information discussed that's on that level.
and some people do deny certain factual realities or certain historical realities.
When they/we do we may end up with different OPINIONS or conclusions but certain facts don't qualify as such.

that the U.S. has a BIGGEST military in the world is a FACT.
the idea that the U.S. as the BEST military in the world is an Opinion.

the U.S. bill of rights says that there should be no cruel or unusual punishment is a FACT
what cruel and unusual punishment IS is an opinion... to a certain degree.
(if it's to be applied to your kid and your worse enemy equally how might you define it)

the classification of persons as "human" "homo sapien sapien" "mankind" is a FACT.
whether or not a specific person or group is HUMANE is an opinion.

A person who has been killed is a FACT.
IF there's video evidence of it, it can be said a certain person did it is a FACT.
whether or not it's murder can be an opinion.
If there's no video an we have to use other evidence to determine the killer(s).
the amount of good factual evidence can determine to various degrees the MORE LIKELY fact of who did it.
Some people in the end may claim it's a jury's opinion but depending of the amount and quality of facts available, those people may be full of crap and just trying to make excuses for the killer for emotional, political or personal reasons.

Said all that to say
It's a bit loose to say there are no facts presented on the board or elsewhere by each of us from time to time.
Or that all of our assertions should be accepted or treated if they are just as rational as everyone else's.

It's fine for anyone to NOT to accept or ignore certain facts and stand by opinions that conflict with facts.
But they don't get credit that their denial of certain aspects of reality on an issue means their OPINION is EQUAL to others presentation of hard facts or conclusions BASED on quality facts and sound reason.

Everyone has a right to their own opinions but all opinions are cannot be considered equally valid.
But some comments are FACTS and some opinions are --in fact-- factually wrong.


If seems you're describing a qualified versus unqualified opinion. If a qualified doctor has the opinion I should get cataracts surgery, it is a more qualified opinion than if the checkout girl at the supermarket has that opinion.

[gabosaurus]

I have to wonder why anyone would still be gloating over this escapade.
"There is someone I dislike on DP, so I forced them to leave. Therefore, I will be gloating at regular intervals about my marvelous achievement. You should appreciate what a wonderful thing I have done. A threat to world peace was averted." :rolleyes:
When actually, it was no more than someone possessed by hatred of a certain lifestyle who simply pounded on someone until they decided to no longer take it.

I could begin posting about how certain members are mentally challenged and not suitable for membership, and how that totally offends me. And I could continue to attack them every time I came on the board. I am guessing this would upset certain people who would try to have me expelled.
Kind of sad, isn't it?

[aboutime]

I have to wonder why anyone would still be gloating over this escapade.
"There is someone I dislike on DP, so I forced them to leave. Therefore, I will be gloating at regular intervals about my marvelous achievement. You should appreciate what a wonderful thing I have done. A threat to world peace was averted." :rolleyes:
When actually, it was no more than someone possessed by hatred of a certain lifestyle who simply pounded on someone until they decided to no longer take it.

I could begin posting about how certain members are mentally challenged and not suitable for membership, and how that totally offends me. And I could continue to attack them every time I came on the board. I am guessing this would upset certain people who would try to have me expelled.
Kind of sad, isn't it?


So happy to finally see you stepping forward, to recognize your many shortcomings gabby.

[tailfins]

I have to wonder why anyone would still be gloating over this escapade.
"There is someone I dislike on DP, so I forced them to leave. Therefore, I will be gloating at regular intervals about my marvelous achievement. You should appreciate what a wonderful thing I have done. A threat to world peace was averted." :rolleyes:
When actually, it was no more than someone possessed by hatred of a certain lifestyle who simply pounded on someone until they decided to no longer take it.

I could begin posting about how certain members are mentally challenged and not suitable for membership, and how that totally offends me. And I could continue to attack them every time I came on the board. I am guessing this would upset certain people who would try to have me expelled.
Kind of sad, isn't it?

I'm a tad pissed off over their "escapade". Jafar seems like a good person to do business with and a useful source for business/corporate advice. Mentally challenged people don't bother me, even they can talk about their achievements for the day. Useless people are another story however.

I won't try to have you expelled, but testing what it takes to embarrass you is another matter. I'm still trying to figure out if you're the type of person who "throws people under the bus" in real life.

[gabosaurus]

I'm a tad pissed off over their "escapade". Jafar seems like a good person to do business with and a useful source for business/corporate advice.

And you would be right. Jafar is actually in the same business as my husband. They might even be in contact with each other.

[tailfins]

And you would be right. Jafar is actually in the same business as my husband. They might even be in contact with each other.

And both likely hire people to write code and organize databases.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I have to wonder why anyone would still be gloating over this escapade.
"There is someone I dislike on DP, so I forced them to leave. Therefore, I will be gloating at regular intervals about my marvelous achievement. You should appreciate what a wonderful thing I have done. A threat to world peace was averted." :rolleyes:
When actually, it was no more than someone possessed by hatred of a certain lifestyle who simply pounded on someone until they decided to no longer take it.

I could begin posting about how certain members are mentally challenged and not suitable for membership, and how that totally offends me. And I could continue to attack them every time I came on the board. I am guessing this would upset certain people who would try to have me expelled.
Kind of sad, isn't it?

I didn't force him to leave nor did I take credit for it. I even noted both those facts in my commentary. Are you that poor of a reader.
How does one gloat or brag about that which they attribute to the actions of others here as I just did in my comments?
Jafar would have never left due to my words as he faced them without flinching for over two years. As I noted he ran when he saw his propaganda had not the results he had imagined. That occurred when other jumped his case during this last terrorist attack upon Israel..
Show me one word I uttered that indicated he should be banned or ran off! Are you this truly daft? I wanted him to stay, damn because his failure to answer my questions or refute my facts given were great to prove the huge lie that Islam is..
Did you even read the OP?-Tyr

[gabosaurus]

I did read the original post. Why did you make it in the first place?

[revelarts]

If seems you're describing a qualified versus unqualified opinion. If a qualified doctor has the opinion I should get cataracts surgery, it is a more qualified opinion than if the checkout girl at the supermarket has that opinion.

That's a good distinction too but not exactly what i'm going for.
I'm talking about the idea that there are times when everyone relates FACTS, other times qualified/informed opinions and also unqualified/misinformed opinions and sometimes complete falsehoods.

to use your examples.

There are FACTS about the eye that the dr could relate to us.
Many could be picked up from a text book.
Also The dr could tell you all about the need and process of cataract surgery.
But if the checkout girl at the supermarket has had cataract surgery and the Dr. hasn't there'd be an aspect of the process that she'd have that the Dr would not be as intimate with.

the checkout girl at the supermarket could give the FACTS of her experience and restored vision.
And her opinion of the Drs and staff.

And becoming aware of unknown facts should cause us to ---at least--- Reexamine our opinions or conclusion to see if they align with those facts.

If the the checkout girl at the supermarket is under the dr's knife and she says it hurts. Even if everything the Dr knows about this surgery and anesthetics given says she shouldn't feel pain he'd be a fool to ignore this NEW factual information.

Her physical pain isn't just an opinion and his knowledge of what the anesthetics should do isn't just informed opinion either.

[Kathianne]

maybe i'm misunderstanding you both.
And it's a theme i'm not able completely to address clearly myself but I think you guys are in a sense WRONG.

there is REALITY.

If we don't want to play philosophical games I think each of you would agree that YOU exist.
that's not "opinion" that's "fact" that's reality.

There's A WHOLE lot of information discussed that's on that level.
and some people do deny certain factual realities or certain historical realities.
When they/we do we may end up with different OPINIONS or conclusions but certain facts don't qualify as such.

that the U.S. has a BIGGEST military in the world is a FACT.
the idea that the U.S. as the BEST military in the world is an Opinion.

the U.S. bill of rights says that there should be no cruel or unusual punishment is a FACT
what cruel and unusual punishment IS is an opinion... to a certain degree.
(if it's to be applied to your kid and your worse enemy equally how might you define it)

the classification of persons as "human" "homo sapien sapien" "mankind" is a FACT.
whether or not a specific person or group is HUMANE is an opinion.

A person who has been killed is a FACT.
IF there's video evidence of it, it can be said a certain person did it is a FACT.
whether or not it's murder can be an opinion.
If there's no video an we have to use other evidence to determine the killer(s).
the amount of good factual evidence can determine to various degrees the MORE LIKELY fact of who did it.
Some people in the end may claim it's a jury's opinion but depending of the amount and quality of facts available, those people may be full of crap and just trying to make excuses for the killer for emotional, political or personal reasons.

Said all that to say
It's a bit loose to say there are no facts presented on the board or elsewhere by each of us from time to time.
Or that all of our assertions should be accepted or treated if they are just as rational as everyone else's.

It's fine for anyone to NOT to accept or ignore certain facts and stand by opinions that conflict with facts.
But they don't get credit that their denial of certain aspects of reality on an issue means their OPINION is EQUAL to others presentation of hard facts or conclusions BASED on quality facts and sound reason.

Everyone has a right to their own opinions but all opinions are cannot be considered equally valid.
But some comments are FACTS and some opinions are --in fact-- factually wrong.

I don't tend to go into lengthy diatribes on most matters. Doubt that I will here.

Gravity keeps us grounded on earth is a fact.
Obama is in the Democrat Party is a fact.
All Democrats are lily livered American haters is not a fact.
Those who disagree with my POV are un-American is not a fact.

A general rule of thumb is that when 'all' is used with any label, it's not likely a fact.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I did read the original post. Why did you make it in the first place?

I made it for several reasons. Primary one was to point out how muslims will run their propaganda on you but keep their inner deeply held true beliefs from us(we non-believers)--especially the hidden beliefs that they know we "infidels object" to--like their support of murdering for Allah.
Jafar finally exposed his complete support for Hamas- a terrorist organization that murders innocent women and children.
Think he'd support Hamas if they were Jewish doing that--NO!
HE SUPPORTS THEM BECAUISE THEY ARE MUSLIM AND ARE TRYING TO DESTROY THE PRIMARY ENEMY OF ISLAM=Israel!
THAT BY ANY LOGICAL DEDUCTION INDICATES HE SUPPORTS THE MURDER OF INNOCENT WOMEN AND CHILDREN BECAUSE HAMAS DOES EXACTLY THAT!
He adamantly refused to condemn them and their murdering attack upon the Israeli citizens!
Do try to wake up to reality... -Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I will then. He's an unproductive bump on a log, collecting a monthly government check. Jafar runs a company that provides for multiple families. That's more than you can say for Abou .
So by your faulty standards a man must be productive until the very day he dies!???
AT put in his 30 years military service and according to you it counts for nothing!
My, my , what a deep thinker you are....:rolleyes:

So his 30 years service to this nation in the American navy counts as squat to you while Jafar , a non-American muslim living in Australia counts highly because he has money and runs a business!??

Do you even have a clue just how wrong headed and asinine that damn thinking is?

How about all the other retired military members here are they just ffing dead weight too?

Or is it only just this very special one that you have a huge bias against?
And so often disagree with politically.
You know , consistency is leading indicator of integrity..
Or do you even know that??

Myself, I boldly claim anybody that discounts a man giving thirty years service in our military(AT has done that) as being an "unproductive bump on a log ", well they are not only wrong but extremely foolish and without a doubt expressing an utter and complete lack of even an ounce of patriotism.

Seems you think once people are ill (AT has severe medical issues) and no longer work, they are useless and to be held in high contempt..
A very sad thing that must be to think that way IMHO ... --Tyr

[Drummond]

I didn't force him to leave nor did I take credit for it. I even noted both those facts in my commentary. Are you that poor of a reader.
How does one gloat or brag about that which they attribute to the actions of others here as I just did in my comments?
Jafar would have never left due to my words as he faced them without flinching for over two years. As I noted he ran when he saw his propaganda had not the results he had imagined. That occurred when other jumped his case during this last terrorist attack upon Israel..
Show me one word I uttered that indicated he should be banned or ran off! Are you this truly daft? I wanted him to stay, damn because his failure to answer my questions or refute my facts given were great to prove the huge lie that Islam is..
Did you even read the OP?-Tyr

A ridiculous allegation ... Gabby, NOBODY has any actual real power, short of a Mod, to run ANYBODY off here (and I don't suggest that they are in the business of doing that, either ..).

Jafar, so far as I'm concerned, left of his own free will. He obviously found this debating environment one where he couldn't peddle his propaganda without its being revealed just what its worth was.

Jafar 'sold' himself as pro-peace. When the Israeli-Hamas confrontation kicked off, he posted NOT ONE WORD against Hamas's actions (and I, for one, invited him to) ... instead devoting himself to anti-Israeli propaganda ... designed to create pro-HAMAS sympathies !!

So Jafar is the author of his own situation. His departure - ditto ...

[gabosaurus]

HE SUPPORTS THEM BECAUISE THEY ARE MUSLIM AND ARE TRYING TO DESTROY THE PRIMARY ENEMY OF ISLAM=Israel!
THAT BY ANY LOGICAL DEDUCTION INDICATES HE SUPPORTS THE MURDER OF INNOCENT WOMEN AND CHILDREN BECAUSE HAMAS DOES EXACTLY THAT!
He adamantly refused to condemn them and their murdering attack upon the Israeli citizens!
Do try to wake up to reality... -Tyr

Total BS. Jafar never expressed his "support" for any terrorist group. He merely opposed Israel, which is a terrorist group of its own.
Do try to wake up to your biased view of what you claim to be reality.

[Kathianne]

Total BS. Jafar never expressed his "support" for any terrorist group. He merely opposed Israel, which is a terrorist group of its own.
Do try to wake up to your biased view of what you claim to be reality.

Actually he basically did. He refused to say, "I support...", however he never saw anything bad that Hamas did.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/search.php?searchid=40333

[Drummond]

Actually he basically did. He refused to say, "I support...", however he never saw anything bad that Hamas did.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/search.php?searchid=40333

Exactly.

In the end, his posts could've been scripted by Hamas as propaganda-pieces. He didn't waver, when tested by events, from total support of them.

I challenged him at least twice to declare his opposition to their violence (as he, the 'peace lover', should've been content to do). Jafar failed that challenge on each occasion.

[Drummond]

Total BS. Jafar never expressed his "support" for any terrorist group. He merely opposed Israel, which is a terrorist group of its own.
Do try to wake up to your biased view of what you claim to be reality.

By the way, labelling Israel as 'a terrorist group of its own' is offensive and untrue. Israel is an internationally recognised Nation State.

Which makes your last sentence downright laughable.

[Kathianne]

Exactly.

In the end, his posts could've been scripted by Hamas as propaganda-pieces. He didn't waver, when tested by events, from total support of them.

I challenged him at least twice to declare his opposition to their violence (as he, the 'peace lover', should've been content to do). Jafar failed that challenge on each occasion.

Now here you touch on where we diverge a bit on how to approach others. We're unlikely to change each others minds, but can still agree to disagree and find common ground. Besides I seriously like you and others that I don't agree with on 'style.' Indeed, like I said, I"m quite certain I'd have like Jafar in person. A meeting of the minds though, wouldn't happen in most political/religious issues. Funny thing though, likely would have on the basics of how to live our lives and raise families.

For him to 'declare his opposition' would likely have caused him great cognitive dissonance. For like others here, he was committed to his own history and its beliefs.

Jafar to me seemed like the vast majority of Muslims, he wouldn't 'support terror,' but repeated 'understood what drove the less successful to it.' This type of thinking has shown up over and over again across various Muslim countries. He was a textbook example of the differences between 'what is right' and 'what I believe.'

[jimnyc]

Total BS. Jafar never expressed his "support" for any terrorist group. He merely opposed Israel, which is a terrorist group of its own.
Do try to wake up to your biased view of what you claim to be reality.

Not only has he done so, I had pointed this out to you already, and you even acknowledged it back then. He even supported the folks that were partying and laughing it up as Hamas sent rockets into Israel. His response was that it was ok, or worthy of such a response, because they were likely getting revenge from an earlier Israeli offensive. He has stated his supports the struggle of Hamas no less than like 30x. If you actually READ over the years and KNEW, you would know, but you didn't, so you don't. Dumbass.

[jimnyc]

I had my ups and downs with Jafar. Sometimes I respected him an awful lot. We had a lot of good discussions in private. I saw his POV fairly well on certain points. Outside of politics, he seemed like a decent fellow. In fact, I liked an awful lot about Jafar. Except for the such never ending support of Hamas, no matter what was presented to him. And that's an awful lot to overcome. It's hard to truly respect someone that refuses to relinquish support for a known terror organization. I tried digging at him about this subject quite a few times, and he wouldn't back off of his support for them. I honestly think it was more of supporting the Muslim group in their fight over the Jews than it was supporting a terror group - but at the end of the day it was still supporting them nonetheless.

I think we see that in Islam often today. Support for leaders and groups simply because of WHO they are - muslims over Americans - or shia over sunni... and not much bending.

[Drummond]

Now here you touch on where we diverge a bit on how to approach others. We're unlikely to change each others minds, but can still agree to disagree and find common ground. Besides I seriously like you and others that I don't agree with on 'style.' Indeed, like I said, I"m quite certain I'd have like Jafar in person. A meeting of the minds though, wouldn't happen in most political/religious issues. Funny thing though, likely would have on the basics of how to live our lives and raise families.

For him to 'declare his opposition' would likely have caused him great cognitive dissonance. For like others here, he was committed to his own history and its beliefs.

Jafar to me seemed like the vast majority of Muslims, he wouldn't 'support terror,' but repeated 'understood what drove the less successful to it.' This type of thinking has shown up over and over again across various Muslim countries. He was a textbook example of the differences between 'what is right' and 'what I believe.'

I can agree with some of what you say, Kathianne.

And I suspect that I would've found Jafar to be quite personable, had I ever met him (... which, but for lack of proper timing, I actually might have done, as we both had a certain pub in common, which we had each separately visited, in the WC2 part of London ...).

Nonetheless ... I, apparently unlike you, place less trust in the way a person expresses himself, and more on WHAT he has to say. History is replete with charming people who are especially bad people. They say that Hitler was charming when he tried to be. Anjem Choudary, a 'radical' Muslim figure here in the UK, is a staunch supporter of Jihaism and saw merit behind Lee Rigby's murderers .... and a dream of his is to see Islam conquer the West, and a caliphate rule America. He is refreshingly candid about it. But ... sometimes, 'charmingly' so ....

In Jafar's case, I just think he was here to sanitise Islam, hoping we'd blow a fuse in coming to believe in Muslims having 'good hearts' and that the majority were no threat to anyone.

... BUT ... the hostilities that broke out earlier this year showed us the truth of Jafar. Gone was the Muslim driven by peace .... suddenly, we had the anti-Israel propagandist, determined to convince us all that Israel deserved our enmity. He had much to say against Israel, and NOTHING to say about all that Hamas did. He was 'inexplicably blind' to all of that.

What we had was a Jafar differently motivated to the Jafar we were SUPPOSED to believe in.

So tell me ... how do any of us judge Jafar in a kindly way ? Based on what, his ability and determination to sell a false image ?

And I must disagree. He DID support terror. Never by admitting he did. But, when tested, he was fully behind Hamas. Never did he waver from that support once he was committed to considering one side or the other .. 'peace' took a hike in his thoughts.

He sold us an image, ultimately proven to be unsupported by his true opinions. I don't find that remotely acceptable. I could've had more respect if Jafar had honestly represented himself from the outset.

[tailfins]

So by your faulty standards a man must be productive until the very day he dies!???
AT put in his 30 years military service and according to you it counts for nothing!
My, my , what a deep thinker you are....:rolleyes:

So his 30 years service to this nation in the American navy counts as squat to you while Jafar , a non-American muslim living in Australia counts highly because he has money and runs a business!??

Do you even have a clue just how wrong headed and asinine that damn thinking is?

How about all the other retired military members here are they just ffing dead weight too?

Or is it only just this very special one that you have a huge bias against?
And so often disagree with politically.
You know , consistency is leading indicator of integrity..
Or do you even know that??

Myself, I boldly claim anybody that discounts a man giving thirty years service in our military(AT has done that) as being an "unproductive bump on a log ", well they are not only wrong but extremely foolish and without a doubt expressing an utter and complete lack of even an ounce of patriotism.

Seems you think once people are ill (AT has severe medical issues) and no longer work, they are useless and to be held in high contempt..
A very sad thing that must be to think that way IMHO ... --Tyr

That's not it at all. Most of this blanket anti-Muslim ranting would get you fired, sued, boycotted etcetera in a company. If you still need to earn a living, you just can't promote that kind of stuff. Also if you need to get a job done and the right person just happens to be Muslim, it's necessary to go with that person. Not needing to get things done brings about a warped perspective. It's one thing to support organized efforts to fight Islamic militantism; it's another to practice wholesale prejudice at an individual level. One can donate to the USO, support AIPAC and many other things. Being anti whatever can get you in lots more trouble than supporting positive principles. Try being FOR something.

[Kathianne]

I can agree with some of what you say, Kathianne.

And I suspect that I would've found Jafar to be quite personable, had I ever met him (... which, but for lack of proper timing, I actually might have done, as we both had a certain pub in common, which we had each separately visited, in the WC2 part of London ...).

Nonetheless ... I, apparently unlike you, place less trust in the way a person expresses himself, and more on WHAT he has to say. History is replete with charming people who are especially bad people. They say that Hitler was charming when he tried to be. Anjem Choudary, a 'radical' Muslim figure here in the UK, is a staunch supporter of Jihaism and saw merit behind Lee Rigby's murderers .... and a dream of his is to see Islam conquer the West, and a caliphate rule America. He is refreshingly candid about it. But ... sometimes, 'charmingly' so ....

In Jafar's case, I just think he was here to sanitise Islam, hoping we'd blow a fuse in coming to believe in Muslims having 'good hearts' and that the majority were no threat to anyone.

... BUT ... the hostilities that broke out earlier this year showed us the truth of Jafar. Gone was the Muslim driven by peace .... suddenly, we had the anti-Israel propagandist, determined to convince us all that Israel deserved our enmity. He had much to say against Israel, and NOTHING to say about all that Hamas did. He was 'inexplicably blind' to all of that.

What we had was a Jafar differently motivated to the Jafar we were SUPPOSED to believe in.

So tell me ... how do any of us judge Jafar in a kindly way ? Based on what, his ability and determination to sell a false image ?

And I must disagree. He DID support terror. Never by admitting he did. But, when tested, he was fully behind Hamas. Never did he waver from that support once he was committed to considering one side or the other .. 'peace' took a hike in his thoughts.

He sold us an image, ultimately proven to be unsupported by his true opinions. I don't find that remotely acceptable. I could've had more respect if Jafar had honestly represented himself from the outset.

Ok. Would you consider Jafar human?

[aboutime]

That's not it at all. Most of this blanket anti-Muslim ranting would get you fired, sued, boycotted etcetera in a company. If you still need to earn a living, you just can't promote that kind of stuff. Also if you need to get a job done and the right person just happens to be Muslim, it's necessary to go with that person. Not needing to get things done brings about a warped perspective. It's one thing to support organized efforts to fight Islamic militantism; it's another to practice wholesale prejudice at an individual level. One can donate to the USO, support AIPAC and many other things. Being anti whatever can get you in lots more trouble than supporting positive principles. Try being FOR something.


That's the problem around the world today. People tend to put the ALMIGHTY DOLLAR, or whatever they call it, above everything else. Even dedication to country, and to fellow human beings who might...just lose their life, but that's not as important as being a good businessman...making big bucks, and being a selfish jerk who loves money more than common sense, and intelligence. You just told us, in a nutshell, where your priorities are.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

That's not it at all. Most of this blanket anti-Muslim ranting would get you fired, sued, boycotted etcetera in a company. If you still need to earn a living, you just can't promote that kind of stuff. Also if you need to get a job done and the right person just happens to be Muslim, it's necessary to go with that person. Not needing to get things done brings about a warped perspective. It's one thing to support organized efforts to fight Islamic militantism; it's another to practice wholesale prejudice at an individual level. One can donate to the USO, support AIPAC and many other things. Being anti whatever can get you in lots more trouble than supporting positive principles. Try being FOR something.

I am for a lot of things. Truth, decency, this nation as it was founded, freedom, Christianity, lower taxes, smaller government, much less liberal destructive control, our rights enshrined in the Bill of Rights.

Thus I am firmly against those things that would take away that. Islam is the top contender to destroy that and it is a damn murdering cult..
However that does nothing to explain your personal attack on Abouttime or the obvious contempt you displayed because he is no longer a productive member of society!!!
As for my comments on Islam they are rants to people like you but to most true conservatives they ring true.
Islam is the darkest force operating on this planet yet hides behind that great lie of being a religion of peace.
Peace my damn ass! They murder, rape, rob, hang, stone, mutilate and destroy at the damn drop of a hat!
And I don't give a damn who doesn't like my telling the truth about them. I knock the living hell out of any man alive, face to face , that tries to stop me from telling the truth on them and will shoot any piece shit that comes after me with a weapon.
You are corporate type money hungry guy and that does not bold well for you to be attempting to lecture any decent man on moral values or decency .
As has been noted here before you side well with the lousy . degrading , ill-treatment muslim attitude on women so there is another mark against anybody taking your advice or views on most things to be accurate, decent or relevant. That is if they are decent people themselves IMHO..-Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Total BS. Jafar never expressed his "support" for any terrorist group. He merely opposed Israel, which is a terrorist group of its own.
Do try to wake up to your biased view of what you claim to be reality.

Quite apparent to we that actually did read his posts that your comment is patently false..
As Jim pointed out to you , Jafar did , many times express his full, unflinching support for Hamas and Hamas is a terrorist group..Tyr

[aboutime]

Quite apparent to we that actually did read his posts that your comment is patently false..
As Jim pointed out to you , Jafar did , many times express his full, unflinching support for Hamas and Hamas is a terrorist group..Tyr


Tyr. The only thing gabby forgot to add to her rant was...how she hates Israel. But then. I expected no less from her. Hatred, and hypocrisy seem to be her best defenses against almost everything. She really is comical, trying to tell others about reality. Pee Wee Herman is more her style these days.

[tailfins]

I am for a lot of things. Truth, decency, this nation as it was founded, freedom, Christianity, lower taxes, smaller government, much less liberal destructive control, our rights enshrined in the Bill of Rights.

Thus I am firmly against those things that would take away that. Islam is the top contender to destroy that and it is a damn murdering cult..
However that does nothing to explain your personal attack on Abouttime or the obvious contempt you displayed because he is no longer a productive member of society!!!
As for my comments on Islam they are rants to people like you but to most true conservatives they ring true.
Islam is the darkest force operating on this planet yet hides behind that great lie of being a religion of peace.
Peace my damn ass! They murder, rape, rob, hang, stone, mutilate and destroy at the damn drop of a hat!
And I don't give a damn who doesn't like my telling the truth about them. I knock the living hell out of any man alive, face to face , that tries to stop me from telling the truth on them and will shoot any piece shit that comes after me with a weapon.
You are corporate type money hungry guy and that does not bold well for you to be attempting to lecture any decent man on moral values or decency .
As has been noted here before you side well with the lousy . degrading , ill-treatment muslim attitude on women so there is another mark against anybody taking your advice or views on most things to be accurate, decent or relevant. That is if they are decent people themselves IMHO..-Tyr

You handle these things they same way you do detecting counterfeit money. Spend your time with subtleties of what's authentic. Getting into the sandtrap of knowing every detail of the counterfeit of the day is a waste. In recent history there has been NAZIism, Communism, Islamic extremism. The threats come and go. Our inalienable rights don't. I straight up don't care about Islam.

BTW: Abouttime started it. He thinks anyone who spends time in specialized study of any sort is a "know-it-all".

What I do care about is putting thought and intelligence into a point of view. Intellectual laziness doesn't deserve respect.

I'm not one of these lefties saying don't torture, respect the enemy, etc. What I'm asking is "Where's the competence?".

[stevecanuck]

I have to wonder why anyone would still be gloating over this escapade.
"There is someone I dislike on DP, so I forced them to leave. Therefore, I will be gloating at regular intervals about my marvelous achievement. You should appreciate what a wonderful thing I have done. A threat to world peace was averted." :rolleyes:
When actually, it was no more than someone possessed by hatred of a certain lifestyle who simply pounded on someone until they decided to no longer take it.

I could begin posting about how certain members are mentally challenged and not suitable for membership, and how that totally offends me. And I could continue to attack them every time I came on the board. I am guessing this would upset certain people who would try to have me expelled.
Kind of sad, isn't it?

Jafar didn't get hounded from this forum. He left from embarrassment. First he posted a fake tweet from an "Israeli soldier" who was supposedly having a laugh about killing Muslim kids. When it was exposed as a hoax, he refused to apologize and admit he had been duped.

Second, he claimed there was no such thing as holy war in the name of God in Islam. When I pointed out to him that everything in the Qur'an, including commands to "fight in the cause of God", are included under the heading "In the name of God...", not once but 113 times, he cut and ran.


Third, and this is going back to when I joined, we were discussing the sexual exploitation of women, and I provided a hadith to prove a point. He countered by saying that only one hadith is not considered reliable, so I provided 2 more, and he took off for the hills.


His lies finally overtook him, so he left forever.

[aboutime]

You handle these things they same way you do detecting counterfeit money. Spend your time with subtleties of what's authentic. Getting into the sandtrap of knowing every detail of the counterfeit of the day is a waste. In recent history there has been NAZIism, Communism, Islamic extremism. The threats come and go. Our inalienable rights don't. I straight up don't care about Islam.

BTW: Abouttime started it. He thinks anyone who spends time in specialized study of any sort is a "know-it-all".

What I do care about is putting thought and intelligence into a point of view. Intellectual laziness doesn't deserve respect.

I'm not one of these lefties saying don't torture, respect the enemy, etc. What I'm asking is "Where's the competence?".


Wrong tailfins. I think phonies who CLAIM to be more intelligent with their specialized study of any sort, think THEY are the know-it-all's. Much like many of you who come here spouting only the information that always pleases you, and all with the intent of convincing everyone else...like gabby, that everyone else is less than youl

[jimnyc]

The only...


You...

Not about either of you or your posts. But for whatever reason, your avatars are confusing me! I'm looking at avatars often for identification, and for whatever reason these 2 avatars are telling my failing brain that it's one and the same. One of you should be kind enough to change your avatar to one of supporting the Steelers! :)

[aboutime]

Not about either of you or your posts. But for whatever reason, your avatars are confusing me! I'm looking at avatars often for identification, and for whatever reason these 2 avatars are telling my failing brain that it's one and the same. One of you should be kind enough to change your avatar to one of supporting the Steelers! :)


Jim. Would like to do so, but that would prove I am just a hypocrite like others insist I am. :laugh: I am a Steelers fan, Eagles fan, Cowboys fan, Packers fan...more like a Diplomat for all of my grandchildren, and son's.:laugh:

Oh, and I know I'm an asshole. Whatever it takes to expose liars, doesn't matter what they call me.

[stevecanuck]

Why are there women like Gabby? She bends over backwards to defend a creed that would subjugate her, kill any gays friends or relatives she might have, suspend elections, remove common law in favor of Sharia, dress her in a tent, and generally institute a system that goes against EVERYTHING she holds dear.

The answer is simple and oh so sad. She is so fully invested in disagreeing with white conservative males, that she is for anything they are against. Reasons don't matter. If TSZ, for example, makes a statement critical of Islam, she will disagree first and think of a reason later. It really is that simple.

[jimnyc]

Why are there women like Gabby? She bends over backwards to defend a creed that would subjugate her, kill any gays friends or relatives she might have, suspend elections, remove common law in favor of Sharia, dress her in a tent, and generally institute a system that goes against EVERYTHING she holds dear.

The answer is simple and oh so sad. She is so fully invested in disagreeing with white conservative males, that she is for anything they are against. Reasons don't matter. If TSZ, for example, makes a statement critical of Islam, she will disagree first and think of a reason later. It really is that simple.

She'll never admit it - but Gabby takes sides in things like this MORE because she has an issue with certain members. If you read her history, you will see that the majority of her trolling and other crap are geared towards just a few members. She has more or less even admitted to this.

That and she is a dope. :)

[aboutime]

She'll never admit it - but Gabby takes sides in things like this MORE because she has an issue with certain members. If you read her history, you will see that the majority of her trolling and other crap are geared towards just a few members. She has more or less even admitted to this.

That and she is a dope. :)



jim...You forgot.....http://icansayit.com/images/troll.jpg

[gabosaurus]

Why are there women like Gabby? She bends over backwards to defend a creed that would subjugate her, kill any gays friends or relatives she might have, suspend elections, remove common law in favor of Sharia, dress her in a tent, and generally institute a system that goes against EVERYTHING she holds dear.

I'm not defending it. Just saying that there is a huge difference between radical extremist groups and the millions of peaceful Muslims.
What many refuse to believe is that there are large populations who choose to live like this. They don't want to adopt Western standards.
At the same time, there are quite a few Muslims who completely abandon traditions and live as we do. My neighbors dress the same as everyone else. They observe American holidays in addition to traditional Muslim ones.
My belief is that the Middle East is full of terrorist states. Including Israel.


The answer is simple and oh so sad. She is so fully invested in disagreeing with white conservative males, that she is for anything they are against. Reasons don't matter. If TSZ, for example, makes a statement critical of Islam, she will disagree first and think of a reason later. It really is that simple.

You are correct. I dislike conservatives so much that I married one. :cool:
I have no qualms with Tyr as a person. He is quite intelligent and can offer some great points. I do disagree (often vehemently so) with his opinions and have never been afraid to state that.

[tailfins]

I'm not defending it. Just saying that there is a huge difference between radical extremist groups and the millions of peaceful Muslims.
What many refuse to believe is that there are large populations who choose to live like this. They don't want to adopt Western standards.
At the same time, there are quite a few Muslims who completely abandon traditions and live as we do. My neighbors dress the same as everyone else. They observe American holidays in addition to traditional Muslim ones.
My belief is that the Middle East is full of terrorist states. Including Israel.



You are correct. I dislike conservatives so much that I married one. :cool:
I have no qualms with Tyr as a person. He is quite intelligent and can offer some great points. I do disagree (often vehemently so) with his opinions and have never been afraid to state that.

The simple reality is that if you want a professional job, you had better learn how to paste a smile on your face when people from other nationalities, including Muslims, sit across the table from you. You don't have to like it, but you had better do it. That's just reality. Wishing it were otherwise doesn't make it different. As they say .... wish in one hand .....

[LongTermGuy]

`The simple reality is the Cancer of Islam / and deceitful Koran reading muslims dont belong in the western world...Political correctness and the ignorance of Liberalism give fuel to Islam......`

[red state]

Jafar didn't get hounded from this forum. He left from embarrassment. First he posted a fake tweet from an "Israeli soldier" who was supposedly having a laugh about killing Muslim kids. When it was exposed as a hoax, he refused to apologize and admit he had been duped.

Second, he claimed there was no such thing as holy war in the name of God in Islam. When I pointed out to him that everything in the Qur'an, including commands to "fight in the cause of God", are included under the heading "In the name of God...", not once but 113 times, he cut and ran.


Third, and this is going back to when I joined, we were discussing the sexual exploitation of women, and I provided a hadith to prove a point. He countered by saying that only one hadith is not considered reliable, so I provided 2 more, and he took off for the hills.


His lies finally overtook him, so he left forever.

I remember one of those occassions but he always ignored you (as he did me when asking about REAL muSLUMs) I'm not as well versed as you on iSLUM but I know enough to not be fooled by any means. Thanks for helping jafar with the door. I say good riddance to a liar and promoter of an EVIL cult. I'm a bit confused as to why anyone cared enough to even start this thread and on Jim's behalf.......I agree that it is often times VERY confusing when seeing such avatars as AT and TF. At first, I thought either one had lost their marbles on the comments I mistook them for saying. AT, how about giving tf his plain jane avatar and you go back to some of your oldies but goodies from the old days before DP? Whatcha say, old friend?

[Drummond]

The simple reality is that if you want a professional job, you had better learn how to paste a smile on your face when people from other nationalities, including Muslims, sit across the table from you. You don't have to like it, but you had better do it. That's just reality. Wishing it were otherwise doesn't make it different. As they say .... wish in one hand .....

Unfortunately, that's a fact of life in my own part of the world. In fact, here, 'Diversity' courses are periodically run in order to ensure that everyone's behaviour, preferably also their very thoughts, run along required PC lines.

Such courses are compulsory ... and you don't just attend one. The requirement is to attend them at regular intervals .. 'booster shots', as it were, to immunise against free thinking. Repeatedly fail to attend them, and it costs you your job.

Ain't Leftism 'wonderful' .... who says Orwell didn't understand Socialism and its methods !!

[jimnyc]

I remember one of those occassions but he always ignored you (as he did me when asking about REAL muSLUMs) I'm not as well versed as you on iSLUM but I know enough to not be fooled by any means. Thanks for helping jafar with the door. I say good riddance to a liar and promoter of an EVIL cult. I'm a bit confused as to why anyone cared enough to even start this thread and on Jim's behalf.......I agree that it is often times VERY confusing when seeing such avatars as AT and TF. At first, I thought either one had lost their marbles on the comments I mistook them for saying. AT, how about giving tf his plain jane avatar and you go back to some of your oldies but goodies from the old days before DP? Whatcha say, old friend?

Isn't/wasn't "old salty" the original nickname for AT? Here's a few ideas...

http://i.imgur.com/fvYCeQn.jpg

And another for the grumpy old bastard! (with all respect of course...)

http://i.imgur.com/tERzdnv.jpg

[Drummond]

And you would be right. Jafar is actually in the same business as my husband. They might even be in contact with each other.

... aah ...

[Jeff]

Jafar always seemed nice enough but he always did back ( support ) Hamas, but when push came to shove and he showed how he supported terrorism now that is all together different.

If you are a terrorist or if you support terrorism you are my enemy period enough said !!!

[jimnyc]

Jafar always seemed nice enough but he always did back ( support ) Hamas, but when push came to shove and he showed how he supported terrorism now that is all together different.

If you are a terrorist or if you support terrorism you are my enemy period enough said !!!

There are terrorists, then those who directly support via funding and weapons. Then you have folks that openly support them or give them moral support. Then there are folks who state they are against terrorism, but still indirectly offer moral support. The last is where I saw Jafar. Someone who consistently claimed to condemn terrorism, but at the same time would refuse to condemn certain groups directly when put to the test. This is IMO the last of all the worries of course, but it's still support. Add up millions of folks like that and that moral support helps. And I think when you have millions like that, this is how you weed out a handful that very well may turn into open support. I think it ALL adds up to support, and it all stinks if you ask me.

Like I always told Jafar, show me others committing similar acts and I will condemn them equally. He did post some stories and I equally condemned them, and instantly, and always. I can't stomach any type of terrorism and these acts, no matter who commits them and no matter where and no matter who the "opponent" is. I think a lot of folks in Islam are taught from birth that the Jews are the enemy, and pigs and such. I also think that when push comes to shove, there WILL be folks that will support groups like Hamas since the enemy is Israel. Some may just remain silent on the matter even, so others don't see their true stance.

Is this ALL muslims? Absolutely not. But when an entire religion is taught hatred and how evil another religion is, of course this will lead to them opposing these people at every turn. And anyone claiming otherwise, that the majority if Muslims are taught from an early age that the Jews are the enemy, are very naive.

[Jeff]

There are terrorists, then those who directly support via funding and weapons. Then you have folks that openly support them or give them moral support. Then there are folks who state they are against terrorism, but still indirectly offer moral support. The last is where I saw Jafar. Someone who consistently claimed to condemn terrorism, but at the same time would refuse to condemn certain groups directly when put to the test. This is IMO the last of all the worries of course, but it's still support. Add up millions of folks like that and that moral support helps. And I think when you have millions like that, this is how you weed out a handful that very well may turn into open support. I think it ALL adds up to support, and it all stinks if you ask me.

Like I always told Jafar, show me others committing similar acts and I will condemn them equally. He did post some stories and I equally condemned them, and instantly, and always. I can't stomach any type of terrorism and these acts, no matter who commits them and no matter where and no matter who the "opponent" is. I think a lot of folks in Islam are taught from birth that the Jews are the enemy, and pigs and such. I also think that when push comes to shove, there WILL be folks that will support groups like Hamas since the enemy is Israel. Some may just remain silent on the matter even, so others don't see their true stance.

Is this ALL muslims? Absolutely not. But when an entire religion is taught hatred and how evil another religion is, of course this will lead to them opposing these people at every turn. And anyone claiming otherwise, that the majority if Muslims are taught from an early age that the Jews are the enemy, are very naive.


I agree it isn't all, heck I have quite a few that are fun to cut up with at the local gas station but remember this


http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6894&stc=1

[NightTrain]

Jafar is/was a sheep.

He is a recent convert to islam, and while I don't think he was a malicious person, he lacked the intelligence to question the drivel he was being spoon-fed down at the local mosque.

I don't know how many times I exposed his bullshit with supported facts, and he would flee the thread and pretend it never happened. Then he'd hear some other distorted half-truth or even an outright lie, and the same scenario would again play itself out.

I don't know if he finally wised up via all of our efforts to educate him, or if he gave up in utter frustration because the vast majority here weren't buying what he was selling and moved on to another forum that have gullible people that take his drivel as gospel.

I suspect the latter.

Another thought that occurs is that it's possible he tried to get help with a few of his weak arguments here, and once his Muzzie Mentor saw for himself how thoroughly Jafar's assertions were being destroyed, he was forbidden to continue his crusade here. He certainly wasn't doing islam any favors with his continued proven dishonesty.


As for you, Gabby, you're full of shit. Show us where Israel has committed ANY act of terrorism, you blithering idiot.

[aboutime]

Isn't/wasn't "old salty" the original nickname for AT? Here's a few ideas...

http://i.imgur.com/fvYCeQn.jpg

And another for the grumpy old bastard! (with all respect of course...)

http://i.imgur.com/tERzdnv.jpg


And with those Jim. Someone kindly made this for me:

http://icansayit.com/images/oldsaltship.jpg

By the way. I actually enjoy being called a Grumpy old bastard. If I bother someone that much. My job is done.:laugh: