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Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
01-05-2015, 07:55 PM
http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/founders/madison/james-madison-federalist-paper-62-1788





James Madison, Federalist Paper #62, 1788


The internal effects of a mutable policy are still more calamitous. It poisons the blessing of liberty itself. It will be of little avail to the people, that the laws are made by men of their own choice, if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood; if they be repealed or revised before they are promulgated, or undergo such incessant changes that no man, who knows what the law is to-day, can guess what it will be to-morrow. Law is defined to be a rule of action; but how can that be a rule, which is little known, and less fixed?

Obama and dem party absolutely spit on this when they rammed obamacare down our throats.
Madison wrote this to warn of the type of scum that was represented by Obama, the dem party and Dem controlled Congress!

Now if amends are not made to directly, seriously counter the extreme damage done by that pack of traitorous jackals then this nation will soon fall. This New Congress has one overriding obligation and that is to undo as much of the absolute crap those vermin unleashed upon this nation as possible.
I strongly believe that if they do not nothing will stop a future civil war in this nation.. Nothing..--Tyr

gabosaurus
01-05-2015, 11:13 PM
Interesting that you bring up James Madison. He was a member of the nascent Democrat-Republican party. One of their core tenets was that the rights of small family farms superceded those of wealthy elite, which included bankers, industrialists, merchants, and investors.
Ensuing Republicans brought forth the idea of "Republican motherhood." This entailed mothers teaching their children the principles of individual values, most important being the avoidance of vulgar displays of individual and corporate wealth.
Descendants of these "Republican mothers" went on to fight for equality and fair pay for female workers, who had endured major pay cuts in the mid-1800s. Their tactics included organizing their forces, strikes and work disruptions.

Which means that early proponents of Madison's viewpoints endorsed the early principles of unions, strikes and equal rights for women. :cool:

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
01-06-2015, 09:59 AM
Interesting that you bring up James Madison. He was a member of the nascent Democrat-Republican party. One of their core tenets was that the rights of small family farms superceded those of wealthy elite, which included bankers, industrialists, merchants, and investors.
Ensuing Republicans brought forth the idea of "Republican motherhood." This entailed mothers teaching their children the principles of individual values, most important being the avoidance of vulgar displays of individual and corporate wealth.
Descendants of these "Republican mothers" went on to fight for equality and fair pay for female workers, who had endured major pay cuts in the mid-1800s. Their tactics included organizing their forces, strikes and work disruptions.

Which means that early proponents of Madison's viewpoints endorsed the early principles of unions, strikes and equal rights for women. :cool:
I find it amazing how you can pin apples on an orange tree Gabby.
The principle of individual and states rights over Federal interests was indeed a fine one but even when upheld as rights of family own farms over bigger and far more powerful interests the connecting of Madison views and/or writes to unions and strikes does not reach..
Later actions by other people do not firmly, or rightly attribute to Madison's approval were he alive to judge.
That is unless you can expand and present such a case that would cause me to reconsider my standing on the matter.
Question is can you, will you even try??

Now to Federalist# 62. Madison held that laws governing the American citizen must be understandable and precise not a bumbling, jungling mass of confusing and vague ideas set to paper to be interpreted anyway by any person so as to give massive power to any federal official or group over WE the people.
Example- the bumblingcare fiasco. Deliberately left so arduous, long and vague as to give almost unlimited power to the
Obama czar(henchman) appointed to run it.

Care to address that one too?? --Tyr

Thunderknuckles
01-06-2015, 04:27 PM
Correct Tyr.
Obamacare is perhaps the perfect example of what Madison was arguing against.

indago
01-07-2015, 10:21 AM
"Indeed the Consent of the subject to all Laws, is so clearly necessary that no Man has yet been found hardy enough to deny it. The Patrons of these Acts allow that Consent is necessary, they only contend for a Consent by Construction, by Interpretation, a virtual Consent. But this is only deluding Men with Shadows instead of Substances. Construction, has made Treason where the law has made none. Construction, in short and arbitrary Distinctions, made in short only, for so many by Words, so many Cries to deceive a Mob have always been the Instruments of arbitrary Power, the means of lulling and ensnaring Men into their own Servitude, for whenever we leave Principles and clear positive Laws, and wander after Constructions, one Construction or Consequence is piled up upon another untill we get at an immense distance from Fact and Truth and Nature, lost in the wild Regions of Imagination and Possibility, where arbitrary Power sitts upon her brazen Throne and governs with an iron Scepter." John Adams - 1768

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
01-07-2015, 11:01 AM
Correct Tyr.
Obamacare is perhaps the perfect example of what Madison was arguing against.

So great of a match that it would appear that Madison looked into the future and saw Obama and obamacare being foisted upon us!-Tyr

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
01-07-2015, 11:04 AM
"Indeed the Consent of the subject to all Laws, is so clearly necessary that no Man has yet been found hardy enough to deny it. The Patrons of these Acts allow that Consent is necessary, they only contend for a Consent by Construction, by Interpretation, a virtual Consent. But this is only deluding Men with Shadows instead of Substances. Construction, has made Treason where the law has made none. Construction, in short and arbitrary Distinctions, made in short only, for so many by Words, so many Cries to deceive a Mob have always been the Instruments of arbitrary Power, the means of lulling and ensnaring Men into their own Servitude, for whenever we leave Principles and clear positive Laws, and wander after Constructions, one Construction or Consequence is piled up upon another untill we get at an immense distance from Fact and Truth and Nature, lost in the wild Regions of Imagination and Possibility, where arbitrary Power sitts upon her brazen Throne and governs with an iron Scepter." John Adams - 1768

Jefferson, Adams OR Madison, NONE WOULD AGREE WITH THE POWER , the corruption and illegal actions engage in by Obama and his admin...
I dare say that any of the three great men--great patriots all--- would likely call for his impeachment and execution were they to see his actions today.. --Tyr

revelarts
01-24-2015, 12:29 PM
those quotes would apply to the U.S. gov't from at least the 1940s and both parties have made the issue worse.
Obama care is just one of the latest layer of federal regs that we live under.

think of it, they made to comment in the late 1780's and 90s they'd be shocked out of their minds at what the federal gov't looks likes today and claims authority over.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5-5a6Q54BM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5-5a6Q54BM

revelarts
01-24-2015, 12:43 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bLcja6Qe0I


Big Biz guy admitted all the regs hurt small biz the worse. and protects big biz.