So you say, No death penalty for leaving Islam, eh??

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://news.yahoo.com/saudi-court-gives-death-penalty-man-renounced-muslim-094037909.html


Saudi court gives death penalty to man who renounced his Muslim faith

.

Reuters

February 24, 2015 4:40 AM


RIYADH (Reuters) - An Islamic court in Saudi Arabia has sentenced a man to death for renouncing his Muslim faith, the English-language daily Saudi Gazette reported on Tuesday.





The man, in his 20s, posted an online video ripping up a copy of Islam's holy book, the Koran, and hitting it with a shoe, the newspaper reported.

Saudi Arabia, the United States' top Arab ally and birthplace of Islam, follows the strict Wahhabi Sunni Muslim school and gives the clergy control over its justice system.

Under the Wahhabi interpretation of Sharia Islamic law, apostasy demands the death penalty, as do some other religious offences like sorcery, while blasphemy and criticism of senior Muslim clerics have incurred jail terms and corporal punishment.

Executions in Saudi Arabia are usually carried out by public beheading.

International rights groups say the Saudi justice system suffers from a lack of transparency and due process, that defendants are often denied basic rights such as legal representation and that sentencing can be arbitrary.

The Saudi government has taken some steps to reform its judicial system but has also defended it as fair.

Last year a court in Jeddah sentenced Saudi liberal Raif Badawi to 1,000 lashes and 10 years in prison for publishing criticism of the kingdom's ruling religious and political elite and calling for reforms in Islam.

The first of 50 of those lashes were carried out in January, but subsequent rounds of flogging have not occurred. Officials have not publicly commented on the case, but insiders say the lashing appears to have been quietly dropped.

(Reporting By Angus McDowall; Editing by Raissa Kasolowsky)

This thread is for every stinking piece of shit muslim apologist that ever argued there is no death penalty for apostasy in Islam!
From now on stick that shit up your ass you ffing maggots. :mad:---Tyr

[tailfins]

The first of 50 of those lashes were carried out in January, but subsequent rounds of flogging have not occurred. Officials have not publicly commented on the case, but insiders say the lashing appears to have been quietly dropped.

I was wondering if he got a suspended sentence. However in Saudi Arabia, getting a suspended sentence probably means getting strung up by one's heels.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I was wondering if he got a suspended sentence. However in Saudi Arabia, getting a suspended sentence probably means getting strung up by one's heels.

They execute you from leaving it(apostate), they execute you for not being in it(infidels) and they demand you blow yourself up (jihad warrior) for Allah if you are in it--a death cult for sure.
And who does the Christian Bible say is the author of death???
2+2, always equal 4... They worship Satan himself. Truth in the telling..-Tyr

[jimnyc]

Of course there is such a penalty, as per shariah law, even if the defender Jafar swore otherwise. This has been around Islam forever. To deny it, while it happens all the time, and is in place as law in so many places, is delusional.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Of course there is such a penalty, as per shariah law, even if the defender Jafar swore otherwise. This has been around Islam forever. To deny it, while it happens all the time, and is in place as law in so many places, is delusional.
Yet not just muslims but also their appeasers/apologists(damn scum) do deny it. As they deny so many evil practices of that ffing cult!
We have had them here doing exactly that in the past.. --Tyr

[fj1200]

Don't let the groupings of words confuse you. They are called paragraphs.


Interpreting the scriptures Muhammad al-Shawkani (http://www.oxfordislamicstudies.com/article/opr/t125/e2181?_hi=6&_pos=1) (d. 1834), an authoritative Muslim scholar and jurisprudent, outlines in his critical appraisal of the principles of Islamic legal theory that Prophetic actions fall into seven different categories, not all of which can be used to issue absolute legal rulings binding upon all Muslims for all times. Lest one think that al-Shawkani being considered a reformer was concocting this categorisation anew, he cites a number of eminent earlier scholars who had preceded him in doing so by several hundred years.

This is quite significant to take heed of in current discussions on Islamic reform. There is a tension between staying authentic to Islam while at the same time allowing for development of Islamic legal theory in a way that does not render claims of adherence to the religion meaningless.
The death penalty for apostasy relies at the core of it on an authentically verified Hadith from Prophet Muhammad who said, "Whoever changes his religion kill him." This statement, however, would seem to contradict numerous verses in the Quran that guarantee freedom of belief, few of which include "There is no compulsion in religion" [2:256], and "Whoever so wills may believe and whoever so wills may deny" [18:29].

How could one reconcile the Quran with the Hadith in this issue without committing an inconsistency whereby the Hadith is rejected out of hand, even though the same transmission rules for accepting veracity of any other Hadith were applied to this one? Moreover, one could ask whether it is an Islamic objective to artificially inflate the numbers of Muslims by including those who would not be so if they had the option.

Although the above-mentioned Hadith is authentic, it is also established that Prophet Muhammad never ordered the death penalty to be carried out on people known during his time to have apostatised. Of such people was a Bedouin man who came to Medina (during a time of political and military power for Muslims) to announce his Islam, but apostatised and left the city a short period later without receiving any penalty for his subsequent rejection.

Given how the Prophet treated individuals who entered and left Islam, and the numerous verses in the Quran guaranteeing freedom of belief, the Hadith decreeing a death penalty for apostasy becomes more puzzling. This can be resolved by turning to another authentic Hadith where this penalty is mentioned, but with a qualifier: "…the one leaving his religion and abandoning the group". In addition, another verse in the Quran, which can further resolve this conundrum speaks to a strategy adopted by a rival sect in Medina in one of their attempts to create a schism within the nascent Muslim community by pretending to enter Islam in the morning, then leaving it in the evening [3:72].
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/05/islam-saudi-apostasy-201458142128717473.html

This of course isn't to say that some Muslims don't carry out the death sentence for apostasy.

[jimnyc]

Don't let the groupings of words confuse you. They are called paragraphs.


http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/05/islam-saudi-apostasy-201458142128717473.html

This of course isn't to say that some Muslims don't carry out the death sentence for apostasy.

I'll counter that with Shariah Law:

Apostasy in Islam (Arabic: ردة riddah or ارتداد irtidād) is commonly defined as the conscious abandonment of Islam by a Muslim in word or through deed.[1][2] It includes the act of converting to another religion (such as Christianity) by a person who was born in a Muslim family or who had previously accepted Islam.[3][4]

Apostasy in Islam includes in its scope not only former Muslims who have renounced Islam to join another religion or become non-religious, but Muslims who have questioned or denied any "fundamental tenet or creed" of Islam such as Sharia law, or who have mocked Allah, worshipped one or more idols, or knowingly believed in an interpretation of Sharia that is contrary to the consensus of ummah (Islamic community).[5][6] The term has also been used for people of religions that trace their origins to Islam, such as Bahá'ís in Iran, and Ahmadiyya Muslims in Pakistan and Indonesia.[7][8]

The definition and appropriate punishment for apostasy in Islam is controversial, and it varies among Islamic scholars.[9] In Islam’s history, the vast majority of scholars have held that apostasy in Islam is a crime punishable with the death penalty, typically after a waiting period to allow the apostate time to repent and return to Islam.[10][11][12] Some contemporary Muslim scholars also hold the traditional view that the death penalty for apostasy is required by the two primary sources of Sharia - the Quran and the Hadiths - while others argue that the death penalty is an inappropriate punishment.[13][14] A majority considers apostasy in Islam to be some form of religious crime, although some reject the use of the death penalty[15][16][17] while a minority of contemporary Islamic scholars, relying on the Quran, hold the view that apostasy in Islam is not a crime.[9][18][19]

Under current laws in Islamic countries, the actual punishment for the apostate (or murtadd مرتد) ranges from execution to prison term to no punishment.[20][21] Islamic nations with sharia courts use civil code to void the Muslim apostate’s marriage and deny child custody rights, as well as his or her inheritance rights for apostasy.[15][16][17] Twenty-three Muslim-majority countries, as of 2013, additionally covered apostasy in Islam through their criminal laws.[22]

According to critics, punishment for apostasy in Islam is a violation of universal human rights, and an issue of freedom of faith and conscience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

[fj1200]

I'll counter that with Shariah Law:

What is Sharia if not what is contained in the Quran.


In these, and other verses,[25] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#cite_note-25) Quran reprimands apostasy in Islam and suggests it deserves chastisement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chastisement). However, Quran does not reveal a specific punishment for apostasy.

And to say that all Muslims agree is not true:


Opposition to executionAbdullah Saeed and Hassan Saeed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassan_Saeed) state that early development of the law of apostasy was a religio-political tool. Over time, a diversity of opinion emerged among Muslims on the punishment.[81] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#cite_note-81)
A minority of medieval Islamic jurists, notably the Hanafi jurist Sarakhsi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarakhsi) (d. 1090),[61] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#cite_note-Saeed-61) Maliki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maliki) jurist Ibn al-Walid al-Baji (d. 494 AH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijri_year)) and Hanbali (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanbali) jurist Ibn Taymiyyah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Taymiyyah) (1263–1328), held that apostasy carries no legal punishment.[82] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#cite_note-Kamali-82)
Contemporary Islamic Shafi`i (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shafi%60i) jurists such as the Grand Mufti (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Mufti) Ali Gomaa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Gomaa),[83] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#cite_note-Gomaa-83)[84] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#cite_note-Tawab-84) Shi'a (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shi%27a_Islam) jurists such as Grand Ayatollah Hossein-Ali Montazeri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Ayatollah_Hossein-Ali_Montazeri),[85] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#cite_note-Jami-85) and some jurists, scholars and writers of other Islamic sects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divisions_of_Islam), have argued or issued fatwas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatwa) that either the changing of religion is not punishable or is only punishable under restricted circumstances, but these minority opinions have not found broad acceptance among the majority of Islamic scholars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulema).[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#cite_note-news.bbc.co.uk-9)[86] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#cite_note-Fatwa_on_Intellectual_Apostasy-86)[87] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#cite_note-rahman1972p10-13-87)[88] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#cite_note-shafaat2006feb-88)
Medieval Muslim scholars (e.g. Sufyan al-Thawri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufyan_al-Thawri)) and modern (e.g. Hasan at-Turabi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasan_at-Turabi)), also have argued that the hadith used to justify execution of apostates should be taken to apply only to political betrayal of the Muslim community, rather than to apostasy in general. These scholars argue for the freedom to convert to and from Islam without legal penalty.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] Other Islamic scholars like the Grand Mufti of Cairo Ali Gomaa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Gomaa) have stated that while God will punish apostates in the afterlife they should not be executed by human beings.[89] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#cite_note-89) Ali Gomaa later clarified that leaving Islam without punishment was not what he meant: "What I actually said is that Islam prohibits a Muslim from changing his religion and that apostasy is a crime, which must be punished."[90] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#cite_note-90)
Javed Ahmad Ghamidi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javed_Ahmad_Ghamidi) writes that punishment for apostasy was part of divine punishment for only those who denied the truth even after clarification in its ultimate form by Muhammad (Itmaam-i-hujjat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itmaam-i-hujjat)), hence, he considers it a time-bound command and no longer punishable.[91] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#cite_note-Ghamidi-91)

[jimnyc]

What is Sharia if not what is contained in the Quran.



And to say that all Muslims agree is not true:

Who said all?

[fj1200]

Who said all?

Surely you can't be ignoring the implication in the OP and the scooooooooooores of other threads.

[jimnyc]

Surely you can't be ignoring the implication in the OP and the scooooooooooores of other threads.

But you replied to me, so I naturally assumed you were addressing me.

I agree that not all believe in death for apostasy, but there are still many, many that do.

[PixieStix]

From the Hadith:
The reason why executing apostates has always been well-ensconced in Islamic law is that there is an indisputable record of Muhammad and his companions doing exactly that according to the reliable Hadith. According to verse 4:80 (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/004-qmt.php#004.080) of the Quran: "Whoso obeyeth the Messenger obeyeth Allah."

Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' " Note that there is no distinction as to how that Muslim came to be a Muslim.

Bukhari (83:37) - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."

Bukhari (84:57) - "Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Bukhari (89:271) - A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to "the verdict of Allah and his apostle."

Bukhari (84:58) - [I]"There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, 'Who is this (man)?' Abu Muisa said, 'He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.' Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, 'I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice.' Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, 'Then we discussed the night prayers'"



Bukhari 84:64-65 - "Allah's Apostle: 'During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.'"


Abu Dawud (4346) - "Was not there a wise man among you who would stand up to him when he saw that I had withheld my hand from accepting his allegiance, and kill him?" Muhammad is chastising his companions for allowing an apostate to "repent" under duress. (The person in question was Muhammad's former scribe who left him after doubting the authenticity of divine "revelations" upon finding out that he could suggest grammatical changes. He was brought back to Muhammad after having been captured in Medina).



al-Muwatta of Imam Malik (36.18.15) - "The Messenger of Allah said, "If someone changes his religion - then strike off his head."


Reliance of the Traveller (Islamic Law) o8.1 - "When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed." (o8.4 affirms that there is no penalty for killing an apostate).

[Kathianne]

Simple, but to the point:

http://islam.about.com/od/law/a/sources.htm


Islamic law is based upon four main sources:The QuranMuslims believe the Quran (http://islam.about.com/od/quran/tp/Quran.htm) to be the direct words of Allah, as revealed to and transmitted by the Prophet Muhammad (http://islam.about.com/od/muhammad/tp/ProphetMuhammadHub.htm) . All sources of Islamic law must be in essential agreement with the Quran, the most fundamental source of Islamic knowledge. When the Quran itself does not speak directly or in detail about a certain subject, Muslims only then turn to alternative sources of Islamic law.The SunnahSunnah is the traditions or known practices of the Prophet Muhammad, many of which have been recorded Hadith (http://islam.about.com/od/hadith/g/hadith_gl.htm) literature. The resources include<article class="content widget expert-content" itemprop="articleBody" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 15px; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline !important; background: 0px 0px;"> many things that he said, did, or agreed to -- and he lived his life according to the Quran, putting the Quran into practice in his own life. During his lifetime, the Prophet's family and companions observed him and shared with others exactly what they had seen in his words and behaviors -- i.e. how he performed ablutions, how he prayed, and how he performed many other acts of worship. People also asked the Prophet directly for rulings on various matters, and he would pronounce his judgment. All of these details were passed on and recorded, to be referred to in future legal rulings. Many issues concerning personal conduct, community and family relations, political matters, etc. were addressed during the time of the Prophet, decided by him, and recorded. The Sunnah can thus clarify details of what is stated generally in the Quran.


</article>
<article class="content widget expert-content" itemprop="articleBody" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 15px; vertical-align: baseline; display: inline !important; background: 0px 0px;">Ijma' (consensus)
</article>
<article class="content widget expert-content" itemprop="articleBody" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 15px; vertical-align: baseline; background: 0px 0px;">In situations when Muslims have not been able to find a specific legal ruling in the Quran or Sunnah, the consensus of the community is sought (or at least the consensus of the legal scholars within the community). The Prophet Muhammad once said that his community (i.e. the Muslim community) would never agree on an error.
Qiyas (analogy)In cases when something needs a legal ruling, but has not been clearly addressed in the other sources, judges may use analogy, reasoning, and legal precedent to decide new case law. This is often the case when a general principle can be applied to new situations. (See the article Smoking in Islam (http://islam.about.com/od/health/a/smoking_fatwa.htm) for an example of this process at work.)

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-islamic-state-smoking-ban-20150212-story.html


Islamic State: Smoking will kill you, one way oranotherBy NABIH BULOSFEBRUARY 12, 2015, 11:47 AM | REPORTING FROM BEIRUTBeheadings have become commonplace in the territories held by the militant IslamicState, but the severed head reportedly found last month in the eastern Syrian city of AlMayadeenwas nevertheless unusual.It had a cigarette placed between its lips.

...

</article>

[PixieStix]

Islam is the enemy of freedom, plain and simple. The peope are not freeto make their own choices, they are bound by islamic rule.

The only reason they don't murder here, is because it is against the law. But some do it anyway

[fj1200]

But you replied to me, so I naturally assumed you were addressing me.

I agree that not all believe in death for apostasy, but there are still many, many that do.

I already granted that some do carry out the sentence so...


From the Hadith:

I believe that would be from "a" Hadith.

[fj1200]

The only reason they don't murder here, is because it is against the law. But some do it anyway

Does not every country have laws against murder?

[PixieStix]

Does not every country have laws against murder?

Not if they are ruled by sharia law, and if they are ruled by sharia, then they don't call it murder. They call it justice

[Drummond]

Don't let the groupings of words confuse you. They are called paragraphs.


http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/05/islam-saudi-apostasy-201458142128717473.html

This of course isn't to say that some Muslims don't carry out the death sentence for apostasy.

You'd fit in well here in the UK, FJ. Our political landscape (not to mention the theological one, too ..) is chock full of people working extremely hard to sanitise Islam.

You have already received some good answers to your posting on this thread - and kudos to Tyr for his contribution here, by the way.

Me .. I thought I'd take a different tack, and research the author of the piece you very happily quoted from. I didn't get far .. apart from noting that he was a writer for Al Jazeera .. that Middle Eastern bastion of even-handedness on matters Muslim (!!) ... not to mention Al Qaeda's media outlet of choice (!!!) ... I tried to take a look at his own Website.

I failed. My security program warned that it had been blocked, because it was known to contain malware.

Make of that what you will ... for myself, I consider myself duly educated ! A Muslim writer, working for Al Jazeera, an Islam sanitiser, whose own Website contains malware, bad enough for its access to be blocked ??!?

Tell me, FJ, on what basis I should consider myself 'encouraged' by YOUR preferred message .. out of all of this !!

My suggestion - get yourself some better comradely advice before launching into any further Leftie-friendly adventures here !

[fj1200]

Not if they are ruled by sharia law


Murder
Sharia law for murder allows the death penalty, but is kinder than western law in one respect - after judicial judgement has been made, appeals are then allowed to the family of the murdered victims, and they are begged to be merciful. In Islam, it is always regarded as the height of mercy to forgive a murderer, even though one may have the right to take his/her life in reprisal.
http://www.islamawareness.net/Shariah/sh_article003.html#murder

:unsure:

[fj1200]

:blah:

If you weren't such an idiot this whole thing might be fun. AlJazeera, getting you with malware. :laugh: You're such a moron. Shall you now attack Wikipedia? I linked them too.

[Drummond]

If you weren't such an idiot this whole thing might be fun. AlJazeera, getting you with malware. :laugh: You're such a moron. Shall you now attack Wikipedia? I linked them too.

????????????????????????

... eh ??

Attention span problems reasserting themselves, FJ ?

Al Jazeera did not 'get me' with malware (.. nor did anyone else). The author of the piece you so proudly offered us runs his own Website. It is THAT Website which I received a warning about, with its being automatically blocked.

I ask myself: why would your author run a site which has malware built into it ??

After all ... your sources and intended message is 'reputable' in nature ... yes .. ?? :laugh::eek::eek:

[revelarts]

This is the law in Saudi Arabia, Our good Ally?
As I've said before Saudi Arabia is a the fountain head of this brand of Islamic law.
ANd Iran under the previous regime promoted it as well.

"At least 21 OIC members have laws at a national or state level penalizing apostasy, or leaving Islam. Eleven are Arab states, including Sudan and Saudi Arabia, while the rest are in Asia (Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Malaysia, Maldives, Brunei) and Africa (Mauritania, Nigeria, Somalia, Comoros)."
http://www.pewresearch.org/files/2014/05/PF_14.05.28_blasphemy-apostasy_apostasy640px.png

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/05/28/which-countries-still-outlaw-apostasy-and-blasphemy/

But like Our laws Different places take the laws more seriously than others.

we still have sodomy and inter-racial marriage laws on the books as well but they are never (rarely) used or taken seriously.

For instance in Nigeria unless your in a town in the North were shria has taken hold you'll never have to worry about the law. And If it's enforced there'll be local outrage. But the south is predominately Christian with preachers that say anything they want about Islam on TV and radio.

But the Saudi's hypocritically take those laws seriously as the royals import white sex workers and girlfriends. they support the mullahs killing people for "blasphemy to the prophet". And send funds to AQ, AlNusra and Isis via back channels to spread the WORSE version of faith.
the Islamic CULT jim Jones version of Islam.


"A Pew Research poll (http://www.pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/) in 2010 found large majorities in Jordan (86 percent), Egypt (84 percent) and Pakistan (76 percent) voiced support for the death penalty for apostates from Islam.

Three years later, Pew found (http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/) majority support for that view in Afghanistan, Egypt, Pakistan, Jordan, Malaysia and the Palestinian territories.
Support was far lower in other Muslim countries, including Tunisia (29 percent), Indonesia (18 percent), Turkey (17 percent) and Kazakhstan (4 percent)."

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/patrick-goodenough/islamic-bloc-silent-apostasy-death-sentence-christian-mother-sudan

[fj1200]

Al Jazeera did not 'get me' with malware ...

It was a joke you idiot. Why he has a crappy website I do not care. I only note that you don't attempt to address the topic while preferring to go off on unrelated tangents.

[LongTermGuy]

If you weren't such an idiot this whole thing might be fun. AlJazeera, getting you with malware. :laugh: You're such a moron. Shall you now attack Wikipedia? I linked them too.

:rolleyes:*Don't you ever get tired of your name calling and arguing on other peoples threads?....You call this Debating?....You should take a break for awhile...catch your breath and your thoughts....its bad for you to be this way....its unPatriotic ....and not healthy.... just an observation john....

[fj1200]

:rolleyes:*Don't you ever get tired of your name calling and arguing on other peoples threads?....You call this Debating?....You should take a break for awhile...catch your breath and your thoughts....its bad for you to be this way....its unPatriotic ....and not healthy.... just an observation john....

I do tire of it but the idiot is incapable of rational thought. And no I don't call that debating because the moron made no attempt to debate, he just let his imagination grab him by the nose ring and lead him around like an ignorant buffoon. I also note that you don't care that he doesn't engage in debate... hypocrisy much?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Surely you can't be ignoring the implication in the OP and the scooooooooooores of other threads.

Implications or TRUTHS???
Is this a judgment on a certain member's postings(namely me) or a debate on a subject of this particular thread. Perhaps stop mixing the two or else state your case without the clever attempts at the usual ruse(spin method) you use. -Tyr

[fj1200]

Implications or TRUTHS???

:rolleyes: Thanks for proving my point.

[jimnyc]

If no penalty for it, and not supported by law - then why aren't these countries courts actively chasing down and prosecuting every last person killing apostates? That's because is many, many areas it is a part of Shariah law, and there's nothing to prosecute. It's supported by law. Just like so many who get away with honor killings in many areas. Sure, some areas have evolved some, and may have lesser penalties - but that doesn't change the massive amount of places that do subscribe to the death penalty for apostasy.

[fj1200]

^Power? Corruption? Politics? Fanatics?

:unsure:

[jimnyc]

^Power? Corruption? Politics? Fanatics?

:unsure:

Or perhaps a possibility that it's Muslims following Shariah law.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

:rolleyes: Thanks for proving my point.

All hat , no cattle dude. You accuse but offer no proof. First perhaps prove facts are not being offered in my posts that you disagree with or that you claim are so bad.
You act as if a member can not have a viewpoint that they solidly, and relentlessly adhere to!!
Dude, that's called integrity and standing on principles, look it up!
Or not.. Methinks you are a one trick pony.
One that will say or do anything to win--in your own polluted mind. Classic example of that is your post editing of your opponents posts in manner that either insults their intelligence or alters the meaning of their commentary. Yet you in your little appeaser world see nothing wrong with that as you've done so repeatedly to myself and Drummond.

How you ever got any rep here with others baffles me as you show no integrity at all. -Tyr

[fj1200]

Or perhaps a possibility that it's Muslims following Shariah law.

Sure, they are following their version. But many times they do not do it for religious reasons. Our problem IMO is assigning attributes to the whole when it doesn't follow.

[jimnyc]

Sure, they are following their version. But many times they do not do it for religious reasons. Our problem IMO is assigning attributes to the whole when it doesn't follow.

I don't assign to the whole, but rather the masses actually involved. I never claimed all.

I can't imagine many people killing someone for apostasy, and it not being about religion.

[fj1200]

All hat , no cattle dude. You accuse but offer no proof. First perhaps prove facts are not being offered in my posts that you disagree with or that you claim are so bad.
You act as if a member can not have a viewpoint that they solidly, and relentlessly adhere to!!
Dude, that's called integrity and standing on principles, look it up!
Or not.. Methinks you are a one trick pony.
One that will say or do anything to win--in your own polluted mind. Classic example of that is your post editing of your opponents posts in manner that either insults their intelligence or alters the meaning of their commentary. Yet you in your little appeaser world see nothing wrong with that as you've done so repeatedly to myself and Drummond.

How you ever got any rep here with others baffles me as you show no integrity at all. -Tyr

You shouldn't confuse your status with the majority of posters here. They can make rational points, be reasonable, and have fun. You and the idiot are nowhere near their level in being able to have a friendly discussion. As I've said before I don't care what your views are and if you could discuss them without ranting like a loon... now that would be different.

You have integrity my @$$. :rolleyes: Relentlessly beholden to hate is not integrity.

FWIW, you two spend more time whining about me rather than discussing what I might post.

[fj1200]

I don't assign to the whole, but rather the masses actually involved. I never claimed all.

I can't imagine many people killing someone for apostasy, and it not being about religion.

I know, I was just stating a position. Of course apostasy is about religion on its face but it doesn't take religion for people to be disgusting individuals.

[Drummond]

:rolleyes:*Don't you ever get tired of your name calling and arguing on other peoples threads?....You call this Debating?....You should take a break for awhile...catch your breath and your thoughts....its bad for you to be this way....its unPatriotic ....and not healthy.... just an observation john....

:clap::clap: Well said.

FJ, in my opinion, will never tire of attacking Conservatives .. be they participants here, or Conservative politicians overseas (which he did at great length elsewhere on DP). But, if he wants to counter my assertion, he is invited to STOP .. as of right now.

[fj1200]

:blabla:

Still a lying sack I see. It's unfortunate.

[Drummond]

Still a lying sack I see. It's unfortunate.

Tut tut. Still 'not' gratuitously attacking Conservatives here ??

[fj1200]

Tut tut. Still 'not' gratuitously attacking Conservatives here ??

Nope, you're not a conservative. Besides, I'm pointing out the truth of you being a lying sack. :)

[Drummond]

Nope, you're not a conservative.:bsflag:



Besides, I'm pointing out the truth of you being a lying sack. :)

I'll pose a question, then. Try to answer truthfully. And not evade it.

Do you deny attacking any Conservatives on this forum ?

[fj1200]

:bsflag:

I'll pose a question, then. Try to answer truthfully. And not evade it.

Do you deny attacking any Conservatives on this forum ?

:laugh: You neither understand nor espouse conservative values.

I don't attack conservatives; See above. :) Why do you attack conservatives? This is where you fail to point out my big government positions. :)

[Drummond]

I don't attack conservatives:bsflag::bsflag::bsflag::bsflag::bsfl ag::bsflag:

You have quite a knack for astonishing me, FJ. This thread has evidence of your attacking posts. As do many others.

Since you cannot debate in a truthful fashion, clearly such debate is pointless.

Oh, and by the way: both myself and Margaret Thatcher firmly believe(d) in fiscal responsibility. Were you the 'Thatcherite' you'd claim to be, you would know how she advocated fiscal prudence (.. do some research). Yes, she and I would feel happy about supplying tax breaks. Neither of us would've wanted RECKLESSNESS to rule the day.

[fj1200]

... clearly such debate is pointless.

As I said, you're not a conservative. You are however a trolling hypocrite: Injecting Thatcher again while you're set to run away? As expected. Run along little one.

[Drummond]

As I said, you're not a conservative. You are however a trolling hypocrite: Injecting Thatcher again while you're set to run away? As expected. Run along little one.

No, that won't do. Just a couple of posts above this one, you posted ... 'I don't attack conservatives'.

ConservativeS ... plural.

I wanted to see if you'd have the gall to claim such a thing. Sure enough, you did .. in defiance of plenty of evidence (and others' knowledge of you here on DP) to the contrary.

You can argue until hell freezes over, so far as I am concerned, about whether or not I am a Conservative. But you've denied attacking other Conservatives as well. When pulled up over it, you choose to evade by limiting discussion to just myself.

And that won't do.

As I've said .. you don't argue honestly. Which is why debate with you is pointless. Oh, and if you don't like being reminded of how un-Thatcherite it is not to manage an economy prudently ... well, tough ....:rolleyes:

[fj1200]

No, that won't do.

:blah: Are you going to continue whining like an idiot? All you do is whine about what I allegedly do without backing anything up. Whine about who I am supposedly attacking but applauding anyone who sends pot shots my way. If you weren't a hypocrite you wouldn't be much of anything.

[Drummond]

:blah: Are you going to continue whining like an idiot? All you do is whine about what I allegedly do without backing anything up. Whine about who I am supposedly attacking but applauding anyone who sends pot shots my way. If you weren't a hypocrite you wouldn't be much of anything.

Ridiculous - there's no 'allegedly' about it. Taking just this one thread, evidence of your attacking prose is evident for anyone to see for themselves.

This is besides the fact of your sustained attack against the British Conservative Party, because they've had the 'temerity' to apply responsible austerity measures over years, and (- despite what you untruthfully claim -) still CONTINUE to.

No doubt you imagined that attacking foreign Conservatives counts for nothing, in the subjectively-viewed context of DP conduct ? Well ... your opposition to them is fact, regardless. And it says nothing good or remotely supportive about your own supposed 'conservative bona fides'.

A supposed 'Conservative', who attacks other Conservatives at the drop of a hat, who expresses neither regret for doing so nor even a clear acknowledgment of it (!!) .... obviously ISN'T ONE.

This is just bizarre.

Come clean, tell us of your true allegiances .. and who knows, maybe the reaction will be one of a measure of respect for your honest representation of yourself.

I invite you to do it now.

[DLT]

This thread is for every stinking piece of shit muslim apologist that ever argued there is no death penalty for apostasy in Islam!
From now on stick that shit up your ass you ffing maggots. :mad:---Tyr

Lol! Oh, come on, Tyr. Let us know how you reeeely feel. Say it like ya mean it!!! lmao

[DLT]

They execute you from leaving it(apostate), they execute you for not being in it(infidels) and they demand you blow yourself up (jihad warrior) for Allah if you are in it--a death cult for sure.
And who does the Christian Bible say is the author of death???
2+2, always equal 4... They worship Satan himself. Truth in the telling..-Tyr

They also murder their own kids, wife, family if/whenever they "feel" they have dishonored Allah. You can't reason with demonic "reasoning" like that. Only way to deal with it/them is to eliminate the source of their dementia (their demonic brain). Ironic....that their chosen method of dealing with problems is beheading, eh?

[fj1200]

:blah:

You're a lying sack and an idiot. I haven't attacked anyone other than a mindless fool (that would be you).

[Drummond]

You're a lying sack and an idiot. I haven't attacked anyone other than a mindless fool (that would be you).

This is just laughable. You can't, surely, be as delusional as you seem ?

Have you somehow, 'magically', inflicted amnesia on every other Conservative here who you HAVE attacked ??

This is chiefly why debates with you are wasted. Fair, honest, debate is fine .. no matter how polar opposite the respective viewpoints are. As for you, you'll deny patently obvious truths on a whim, and not care about anything else. :tinfoil:

What a Leftie you are !!!

[fj1200]

This is just laughable. :blabla: What a Leftie you are !!!

Nah, I just know what an moron you are.

[Drummond]

Nah, I just know what an moron you are.:lame2::trolls::trolls::trolls::trolls::trolls :

[fj1200]

:lame2:

As expected. Run along little one.

[Drummond]

As expected. Run along little one.

You're improving, I see. You've now managed to recreate a PORTION of my previous post accurately. As opposed to your usual trick of complete inventions ..

You must feel like celebrating, my son. It's a bit of a milestone for you.

Or, maybe not. I've seen how you like to get the last word... :lol:

[fj1200]

:blah:

You whine when I treat your posts like the crap that they are and you whine when I don't treat your posts like the crap that they are. There's no pleasing an idiot like you.