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View Full Version : Marines drop case against Iraq veteran



LiberalNation
06-29-2007, 02:31 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070629/ap_on_re_us/military_protest_hearing

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - The Marines won't kick out an Iraq war veteran who made anti-war statements in a speech and wore part of his uniform at a protest, the service said Friday, despite a recommendation to discharge him early.

An investigating officer had recommended in May that Liam Madden, 22, of Boston receive an other-than-honorable discharge, the worst discharge possible under non-court martial conditions.

Madden is part of the Individual Ready Reserve, which consists mainly of those who have left active duty but still have time remaining on their eight-year military obligations. He is scheduled to be discharged in 2010.

Madden was accused of making "disloyal statements" during a speech in February in New York in which he accused President Bush of betraying service members and called the fighting in Iraq a "war crime." The speech was posted on the Internet.

Madden also was accused of a uniform violation for wearing a camouflage, button-down shirt and jeans at a demonstration in Washington in January.

The Marines said in a news release that they were dropping the case because they had "received sufficient indication" from Madden that he would no longer wear his uniform when engaged in political activities. They also determined that his statements did not warrant further action.

Madden insists he never reached an agreement with the Marines and planned to keep wearing his uniform at protests. He did write in an e-mail to the Marine Corps on Tuesday that he would agree to stop wearing his uniform at protests if the corps put in writing "that my statements are neither disloyal nor inaccurate."

Madden said he never received the letter he requested on Marine Corps letterhead and had no further conversations with the Marines.

"I think it's a total victory," Madden said, speaking on his cell phone from Columbia, S.C., where he is participating in a bus tour of East Coast military installations. "The country is on our side, and it really puts the Marine Corps in a bad light if they try to intimidate" us.

The Marines did not immediately return phone calls seeking comment.

Madden was one of at least three Marines investigated for their protest activities. Another, Adam Kokesh of Washington, D.C., was kicked out of the Marines earlier this month with a general discharge for wearing his uniform during a demonstration and using an obscenity in an e-mail to an investigating officer.

Kokesh's attorney said the other-than-honorable discharge could affect health benefits, but Madden said his attorneys did not think it would because he previously received an honorable discharge from active duty.

An other-than-honorable discharge would affect employment prospects and ability to obtain a security clearance, Madden's attorneys said.

Gunny
06-29-2007, 06:25 PM
what f-ing disgrace.

82Marine89
06-29-2007, 06:45 PM
This bastard is an Ex-Marine.

Gunny
06-29-2007, 08:23 PM
This bastard is an Ex-Marine.


EXactly.

LiberalNation
06-29-2007, 08:40 PM
and a war vet, see they all don't think exactly the same.

Gunny
06-29-2007, 08:52 PM
and a war vet, see they all don't think exactly the same.

A bit of dishonesty from you, no? Who has EVER said each and every vet down to the man/woman thought exactly the same?

Fact is, the overwhelming majority of us DO feel and think the same on a lot of issues.

One being that disgracing my fucking uniform that I EARNED the right to wear, and did so proudly for 20+ years is the actions of a pussy, who has EARNED the title "EX Marine."

And for those who don't know, there is no such thing as an EX-Marine unless one earns that title. Once a Marine, ALWAYS a Marine.

OOH-FUCKING RAH and piss on this dirtbag.

LiberalNation
06-29-2007, 10:05 PM
Well he didn't get kicked out so I guess he ain't a Ex-Marine.

Gunny
06-30-2007, 09:56 AM
Well he didn't get kicked out so I guess he ain't a Ex-Marine.

He disrespected his own service. Who is an "ex Marine" is determined by Marines, not YOU. He's more than qualified as an "EX." Piss on him.

82Marine89
06-30-2007, 12:19 PM
Well he didn't get kicked out so I guess he ain't a Ex-Marine.

We've turned our backs on him. He is an Ex-Marine.

LiberalNation
06-30-2007, 01:52 PM
Now to the point. YOU may call him an ex-marine but like I said in the beginning YOU don't represent the views of all troops. They are individuals and I'm sure some would congratulate him for what he is doing just like some would call him a disgrace. Not everyone troops ect. support this war or thinks it's right.

shattered
06-30-2007, 01:58 PM
Now to the point. YOU may call him an ex-marine but like I said in the beginning YOU don't represent the views of all troops. They are individuals and I'm sure some would congratulate him for what he is doing just like some would call him a disgrace. Not everyone troops ect. support this war or thinks it's right.

He's got a better shot at accurately representing the views of troops than you do...

Rahul
06-30-2007, 02:07 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070629/ap_on_re_us/military_protest_hearing

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - The Marines won't kick out an Iraq war veteran who made anti-war statements in a speech and wore part of his uniform at a protest, the service said Friday, despite a recommendation to discharge him early.

An investigating officer had recommended in May that Liam Madden, 22, of Boston receive an other-than-honorable discharge, the worst discharge possible under non-court martial conditions.

Madden is part of the Individual Ready Reserve, which consists mainly of those who have left active duty but still have time remaining on their eight-year military obligations. He is scheduled to be discharged in 2010.

Madden was accused of making "disloyal statements" during a speech in February in New York in which he accused President Bush of betraying service members and called the fighting in Iraq a "war crime." The speech was posted on the Internet.

Madden also was accused of a uniform violation for wearing a camouflage, button-down shirt and jeans at a demonstration in Washington in January.

The Marines said in a news release that they were dropping the case because they had "received sufficient indication" from Madden that he would no longer wear his uniform when engaged in political activities. They also determined that his statements did not warrant further action.

Madden insists he never reached an agreement with the Marines and planned to keep wearing his uniform at protests. He did write in an e-mail to the Marine Corps on Tuesday that he would agree to stop wearing his uniform at protests if the corps put in writing "that my statements are neither disloyal nor inaccurate."

Madden said he never received the letter he requested on Marine Corps letterhead and had no further conversations with the Marines.

"I think it's a total victory," Madden said, speaking on his cell phone from Columbia, S.C., where he is participating in a bus tour of East Coast military installations. "The country is on our side, and it really puts the Marine Corps in a bad light if they try to intimidate" us.

The Marines did not immediately return phone calls seeking comment.

Madden was one of at least three Marines investigated for their protest activities. Another, Adam Kokesh of Washington, D.C., was kicked out of the Marines earlier this month with a general discharge for wearing his uniform during a demonstration and using an obscenity in an e-mail to an investigating officer.

Kokesh's attorney said the other-than-honorable discharge could affect health benefits, but Madden said his attorneys did not think it would because he previously received an honorable discharge from active duty.

An other-than-honorable discharge would affect employment prospects and ability to obtain a security clearance, Madden's attorneys said.

The guy's got more sense than the person leading the country, thats for sure. Hell, the war in Iraq is the most senseless war the US has ever waged, not to mention the most fruitless (except for the oil) - and the Marine, or ex-Marine, is right to protest.

Gunny
07-01-2007, 11:42 PM
Now to the point. YOU may call him an ex-marine but like I said in the beginning YOU don't represent the views of all troops. They are individuals and I'm sure some would congratulate him for what he is doing just like some would call him a disgrace. Not everyone troops ect. support this war or thinks it's right.

LMAO. And like you've been told I don't know how many times, we damned-sure represent the views of Marines since we are they, and you just ain't. And when it comes specifically to Marines, your relativist argument goes to shit. We take pride in wearing that uniform and paid a lot of blood, sweat and tears to earn the right to. Of the 10% average usual nonconformists, even most of them turn their backs on this piece of trash.

Whether or not they support the war is completely irrelevant. It is unlawful to wear the Marine Corps uniform in part, or in any disrespectful manner, or in any other way than as prescribed by Marine Corps Order. It is a violation of the UCMJ to make political statements while dressed in and/or a representative of any branch of service in the US military.

All in all, you are wrong on just about every level.

Gunny
07-01-2007, 11:43 PM
The guy's got more sense than the person leading the country, thats for sure. Hell, the war in Iraq is the most senseless war the US has ever waged, not to mention the most fruitless (except for the oil) - and the Marine, or ex-Marine, is right to protest.

You're an idiot and have no idea what you are talking about. Go back to your stupid polar bears, moron.

LiberalNation
07-01-2007, 11:45 PM
And like you've been told I don't know how many times, we damned-sure represent the views of Marines since we are they, and you just ain't.
No, you represent your views and your views only. Every Marine is an individual person with their own views on all issues. Joining the marines and agreeing to work and follow some rules doesn't change that. You can’t speak for all marines, neither can I but then I’m not trying to, you are.

nevadamedic
07-01-2007, 11:56 PM
No, you represent your views and your views only. Every Marine is an individual person with their own views on all issues. Joining the marines and agreeing to work and follow some rules doesn't change that. You canít speak for all marines, neither can I but then Iím not trying to, you are.

From what I understand it isn't just agreeing to work it is a way of life and that is what makes it different.

Rahul
07-02-2007, 12:29 AM
You're an idiot and have no idea what you are talking about. Go back to your stupid polar bears, moron.

Do you ever offer anything to the debate other than insults and putdowns?

Gunny
07-02-2007, 05:47 PM
Do you ever offer anything to the debate other than insults and putdowns?

Sure I do. When I'm debating an intelligent human being with at least a modicum of knowledge on the topic being debated.

That cuts YOU out completely. You're an anti-American piece of trash spewing nothing but lies and false propaganda.

Gunny
07-02-2007, 05:55 PM
No, you represent your views and your views only. Every Marine is an individual person with their own views on all issues. Joining the marines and agreeing to work and follow some rules doesn't change that. You canít speak for all marines, neither can I but then Iím not trying to, you are.

Your argument is bullshit. I spent 20 years in the Marines; yet, that isn't good enough. You think you know more.:cuckoo:

I sure as Hell CAN speak for the Marines. I was in the Corps longer than you've been alive. It's a different world that you obviously know nothing about, and you really should quit making a fool of yourself talking out your ass.

LiberalNation
07-02-2007, 06:16 PM
Really so if I went and asked every marine about this they would say the exact same thing as you with no exception because they are marines. I think your wrong and don't think you can speak for every individual in the marine corps.

darin
07-02-2007, 06:18 PM
Really so if I went and asked every marine about this they would say the exact same thing as you with no exception because they are marines. I think your wrong and don't think you can speak for every individual in the marine corps.


Why do you debate things for which you have no experience? Seriously. Gunny has done more TODAY to serve the United States than you've done in your lifetime. You really should shush, and learn respect.

Gunny
07-02-2007, 06:25 PM
Really so if I went and asked every marine about this they would say the exact same thing as you with no exception because they are marines. I think your wrong and don't think you can speak for every individual in the marine corps.

And I think you are making about as obviously a dishonest argument as can be made. Because you might find 100 out of 175K Marines who don't go with the flow, in NO WAY supports your argument since the overwhelming consensus would say EXACTLY what I have said, or words to that effect.

I don't even know and have never conversed with the other Marine in this thread, and he's saying the same thing, right?

Do yourself a favor and give it a rest. You are wrong.

82Marine89
07-02-2007, 08:02 PM
Really so if I went and asked every marine about this they would say the exact same thing as you with no exception because they are marines. I think your wrong and don't think you can speak for every individual in the marine corps.

First and foremost, Marine is capitalized. Second, you have nothing to say in this argument. That cum guzzler dishonored the reputation of my Marine Corps. Since you are not, nor have you ever been anything more than a Halo marine, you have no clue of what the Gunny and I speak of.

Gunny
07-02-2007, 08:50 PM
First and foremost, Marine is capitalized. Second, you have nothing to say in this argument. That cum guzzler dishonored the reputation of my Marine Corps. Since you are not, nor have you ever been anything more than a Halo marine, you have no clue of what the Gunny and I speak of.

LMAO. Cool avatar.:laugh2:

LiberalNation
07-02-2007, 09:04 PM
And I think you are making about as obviously a dishonest argument as can be made. Because you might find 100 out of 175K Marines who don't go with the flow, in NO WAY supports your argument since the overwhelming consensus would say EXACTLY what I have said, or words to that effect.
It would not only support my argument it would make it. Just because it may be the majority doesn't mean all. Which would therefor mean you don't speak for every marine.

You certinally don't speak for the establishment cuz this guy would be out on his ass if you did. Not allowed to stay and draw his money and benifits. I actually I'm amazed they haven't kicked him out, it really did look like he was breaking the rules. Maybe they just don't want negative press that would fual the fire of the anti-war movement when they can point to how an Iraq war vetren was treated when he spoke out.

LiberalNation
07-02-2007, 09:07 PM
Why do you debate things for which you have no experience? Seriously. Gunny has done more TODAY to serve the United States than you've done in your lifetime. You really should shush, and learn respect.
Why, because that's what this board is for, debate. You don't need experience to have opinions and him serving in the marines a hundred years ago doesn't mean I'm gona shut my mouth and not debate him.

Gunny
07-02-2007, 09:17 PM
It would not only support my argument it would make it. Just because it may be the majority doesn't mean all. Which would therefor mean you don't speak for every marine.

You certinally don't speak for the establishment cuz this guy would be out on his ass if you did. Not allowed to stay and draw his money and benifits. I actually I'm amazed they haven't kicked him out, it really did look like he was breaking the rules. Maybe they just don't want negative press that would fual the fire of the anti-war movement when they can point to how an Iraq war vetren was treated when he spoke out.

No it wouldn't make your argument. It would make mine.

And I DO speak for the "establishment." He got off for one reason and one reason only ... he isn't worth anyone's time and effort. He's in the inactive reserve. That means he's ALREADY not getting any money or benefits. He would have to be recalled to active duty in order to receive any.

All of which further proves my point that you don't have any idea what you are talking about. If he was on active duty and did that he would be crucified.

And no matter WHAT screwy ideas you have, Marines are expected to maintain a certain standard of conduct by EVERY OTHER MARINE, and if they don't, they're dirtbags and we our backs to them WHETHER OR NOT YOUR CLUELESS ASS LIKES IT.

Gunny
07-02-2007, 09:20 PM
Why, because that's what this board is for, debate. You don't need experience to have opinions and him serving in the marines a hundred years ago doesn't mean I'm gona shut my mouth and not debate him.

You're not debating anything. You're trying to tell Marines how the Marine Corps is. You have no clue.

But it doesn't have to be the Marines. Ask DMP, or Jeff, or Mr P, or any other veteran on this board of ANY service if this is acceptable conduct.

LiberalNation
07-02-2007, 09:34 PM
I didn't say it was acceptable conduct. I said you don't speak for ever marine. I said he wasn't prosecuted and kicked out for it so that in mind even if you and thousands of other marines turn your back on him and call him an ex-marine he is still a marine on inactive duty who could for some strange reason be recalled.

82Marine89
07-02-2007, 10:01 PM
Why, because that's what this board is for, debate. You don't need experience to have opinions and him serving in the marines a hundred years ago doesn't mean I'm gona shut my mouth and not debate him.

You don't need experience to have an opinion? That makes your opinion worthless. Sort of like being a college professor.

LiberalNation
07-02-2007, 10:27 PM
Now how in the world could colleges sell college degrees without professors. They aren't worthless.

Rahul
07-03-2007, 12:27 AM
You're an anti-American piece of trash spewing nothing but lies and false propaganda.

Insults are not required and do nothing to prove your point.

Gunny
07-03-2007, 04:43 PM
I didn't say it was acceptable conduct. I said you don't speak for ever marine. I said he wasn't prosecuted and kicked out for it so that in mind even if you and thousands of other marines turn your back on him and call him an ex-marine he is still a marine on inactive duty who could for some strange reason be recalled.


I swear you are dumber than a red brick. I already addressed, with facts, your argument you just turned around and repeated. If I and thousands of other Marines call him an "Ex-Marine" it's like being branded with a red "X". It is our right to do so because we ARE the Corps, and he's a piece of shit who has dishonored the name "Marine." That means we no longer accept him as one.

Now you can continue to blather on with your irrelvant arguments, but the fact is, Marines decide who earns the dishonor of being called an "Ex."

Being on inactive duty doesn't mean shit. He wouldn't be recalled unless a draft started, and I can GUARANTEE you HE wouldn't be recalled even then.

The dirtbag has gotten himself blackballed. He's done. None of your crap is going to change that fact.

Gunny
07-03-2007, 04:45 PM
Insults are not required and do nothing to prove your point.

In your case, I find you worthy of nothing more, and proving a point to you is like trying to piss into a 20 mph wind. There's no point to it at all. You make no valide arguments. You dismiss out of hand everyone else's and just repeat whatever stupid question you have.

You have no value to this board.

LiberalNation
07-03-2007, 05:35 PM
I already addressed, with facts, your argument you just turned around and repeated. If I and thousands of other Marines call him an "Ex-Marine" it's like being branded with a red "X". It is our right to do so because we ARE the Corps, and he's a piece of shit who has dishonored the name "Marine." That means we no longer accept him as one.

Now you can continue to blather on with your irrelvant arguments, but the fact is, Marines decide who earns the dishonor of being called an "Ex."

Being on inactive duty doesn't mean shit. He wouldn't be recalled unless a draft started, and I can GUARANTEE you HE wouldn't be recalled even then.
Can you prove any of this or is just another, take my word for it.

gabosaurus
07-03-2007, 07:09 PM
For once, I agree with Gunny. It is one thing to protest. It is another to wear your uniform to a protest. Wearing your Marine uniform to a protest is implying that the Marines know of and approve of your sentiments. Which obviously they don't. I have been to many protests, but always as a private citizen.
I personally think he should have been court martialed.