How to take down armed suspect

[jimnyc]

I'm guessing the copper didn't want to get in a standoff...

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=0476a01998f1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Jeff]

Holy Hell what a idiot. I guess that cop figured if he shoots then people are going to riot, they will burn the neighborhood down and all that :laugh: Man this isn't a laughing situation, I just can't figure out what in the hell that cop was thinking, hell he passed the other cops like he was trying to be the first to run the guy over, I am just dumbfounded, can't figure out what the heck he was doing.

[Kathianne]

Back story:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/watch-arizona-police-car-ram-suspect-ending-day/story?id=30319373


Shocking dashboard camera videos released by authorities in Arizona show a patrol car crashing into an alleged armed suspect who police said had been on a day-long crime spree.Mario Valencia's February 19 alleged spree included robbing a 7-11, breaking into a church and committing arson, invading a home and stealing a car, the Marana Police Department said. He then allegedly stole a rifle and ammunition from Walmart (http://abcnews.go.com/topics/business/companies/walmart.htm) and fired the gun not far from the store, according to police.

In the dashcam video, a gunshot is heard as Valencia is seen walking down the street in Marana, about 30 miles north of Tucson.

An officer is heard saying, "One round just went out into the sky. It's definitely unlocked now, it's definitely loaded."

"Stand off, the gun is loaded," an officer warns.

An officer then drives off the road and into Valencia, in a shocking collision captured on two cruisers' cameras.

Valencia was hospitalized for two days after the incident, according to police. Valencia was charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, two counts of armed robbery and unlawful discharge of a firearm.

According to Marana Police Chief Terry Rozema, while Valencia didn't shoot anyone, he did aim the rifle at an officer. Rozema said an officer told him Valencia was walking toward a business, and while the officer was too far away to shoot, he decided to get on top of him as fast as possible to separate Valencia from the weapon.

Michael Rapiejko, the officer involved, was cleared by county attorneys and returned to work after a few days, Rozema said.

Valencia's public defender, Michelle Cohen Metzger, released a statement calling the situation an "obvious excessive use of force."

"It’s a miracle that he’s not dead," she said in the statement. "I’m hoping that the State takes into account my client’s mental state at the time, as he intended to hurt no one."

[Jeff]

Back story:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/watch-arizona-police-car-ram-suspect-ending-day/story?id=30319373

Once again moral of the story, you have to be breaking the law in order to have the police involved. Still not sure if that was the best way to stop him though. :laugh:

[jimnyc]

The public defender states:


Shocking dashboard camera videos released by authorities in Arizona show a patrol car crashing into an alleged armed suspect who police said had been on a day-long crime spree.Mario Valencia's February 19 alleged spree included robbing a 7-11, breaking into a church and committing arson, invading a home and stealing a car, the Marana Police Department said. He then allegedly stole a rifle and ammunition from Walmart (http://abcnews.go.com/topics/business/companies/walmart.htm) and fired the gun not far from the store, according to police.

Normally I would have stated this was a tad overkill, that maybe they SHOULD have had a standoff. But hell, now seeing his litany of crimes - I think this cop ended what was growing and growing. 6 felonies and now he had a gun.

[Kathianne]

Once again moral of the story, you have to be breaking the law in order to have the police involved. Still not sure if that was the best way to stop him though. :laugh:

He's still alive, he had a loaded rifle and was firing in the air, if the police hadn't separated him from the rifle, he'd be dead. As noted, there were two policecams already videoing before he was stopped.

[NightTrain]

That was a real WTF moment - I did not expect that. That 2nd cop was really moving when he hit him... wow!

This is the first time I've seen a cop use his cruiser as a weapon... I'd have to say it was effective. Ese was disarmed and ready for handcuffs in 0.2 seconds flat.

[jimnyc]

That was a real WTF moment - I did not expect that. That 2nd cop was really moving when he hit him... wow!

This is the first time I've seen a cop use his cruiser as a weapon... I'd have to say it was effective. Ese was disarmed and ready for handcuffs in 0.2 seconds flat.

Another... LOL, although this one accidentally.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqfQ58eYHps

[namvet]

god must love crazy people. he made so many of them

[Perianne]

Oh... he broke his windshield and messed up that little wall.

[jimnyc]

Oh... he broke his windshield and messed up that little wall.

Yeah, I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for the guy either, but I think the cop is going to be shitcanned over this one. I can't imagine him explaining this away. Hell, the more I watch it, the more I think they can even bring attempted murder charges against him. I suppose it's all about his intent, and we can all only guess now.

[LongTermGuy]

The public defender states:



Normally I would have stated this was a tad overkill, that maybe they SHOULD have had a standoff. But hell, now seeing his litany of crimes - I think this cop ended what was growing and growing. 6 felonies and now he had a gun.


`No overkill...not even a tad for this criminal roach walking down the street `shooting` his gun....ask oneself this question...after watching the video (before the cop stopped him)...If you were walking down (before any LEO showed up) the opposite side of the street as a Legal law-abiding conceal-Cary citizen ....and walking towards one another and seeing this fool....shooting his gun...*would your mind be racing...? All depends on what he does...but it would only take a second for the "savage" *thug.... to aim his weapon at you to show what a bad-ass he THINKS is.......

[red state]

I saw this footage what drinking my coffee this morning....told my wife to hurry up and come see it but she missed out. Been so busy that I forgot all about it but I just called her over to see Jim's post. HA! I told her: "See, I was right....they knocked him clean over the freakin' wall!" Man, can you imagine what would have happened had he not cleared those concrete blocks. The cop was "JUSTIFIED". The hoodlum had just stolen the gun and ammo from Walmart, shot all over the street and even shot while the cops were trailing him. Yeah, he'll know better next time (maybe).

The next footage Jim sent, however, did seem to be overkill. The guy was unarmed, had only stolen a purse or something and was obviously played out by the way he was running. He could have easily let the out-of-shape idiot completely play out or slowed up to ram him.....my God, he didn't ram him.....he complete ran him down and OVER him. I couldn't tell if the tires got his rib cage but it most certainly and IMMEDIATELY broke and stretched his right leg....eeeeeeEEEEEERRRRGGGGGHHHHhhhhhh!!! NASTY!

[red state]

`No overkill...not even a tad for this criminal roach walking down the street `shooting` his gun....ask oneself this question...after watching the video (before the cop stopped him)...If you were walking down (before any LEO showed up) the opposite side of the street as a Legal law-abiding conceal-Cary citizen ....and walking towards one another and seeing this fool....shooting his gun...*would your mind be racing...? All depends on what he does...but it would only take a second for the "savage" *thug.... to aim his weapon at you to show what a bad-ass he THINKS is.......

_______________________________________________



http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by jimnyc http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=730859#post730859)
The public defender states:



Normally I would have stated this was a tad overkill, that maybe they SHOULD have had a standoff. But hell, now seeing his litany of crimes - I think this cop ended what was growing and growing. 6 felonies and now he had a gun.


_______________________________________________

EXACTLY!!! It would have been better if they had killed the S.O.B.O. (Son Of B.O.) That is (IF) you can be B.O.'s boy when you're a mexican (at least he looked mexican or arabian to me. If he gets out, he'll likely do MUCH worse the next time.

The freeze-frame is priceless!!! What was going on in his mind at the time of impact? Was anything going on in that head....was a THOUSAND things going on in that split second. NO, I suspect only a few short words were essentially synaptic at the time.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11140349_1430745057227333_3312745207391888395_n.jp g?oh=f38d141f7b4c27b39d56dc13e992c678&oe=55DAFA4D&__gda__=1437431659_3ac50c5e9aea8541e95460c72973470 5
And then went flying over the wall.....

[Noir]

Good grief 0,0

i guess that's the American justice system in action...

IMO the most telling part is that the policeman doesn't even state his intentions to his colleagues over the radio, or discuss a take down with them, he just decides he's going to do this =/

[jimnyc]

Good grief 0,0

i guess that's the American justice system in action...

IMO the most telling part is that the policeman doesn't even state his intentions to his colleagues over the radio, or discuss a take down with them, he just decides he's going to do this =/

Not sure the suspect announced his intentions prior to his 6 felonies either. While the officer put the criminal's life in danger, the criminal put tons of lives in danger throughout the day terrorizing people. Rather than running him over and putting his own job on the line, I think they should have simply asked him to put the gun down like 3 times, and then shot him. Game over.

[Jeff]

Good grief 0,0

i guess that's the American justice system in action...

IMO the most telling part is that the policeman doesn't even state his intentions to his colleagues over the radio, or discuss a take down with them, he just decides he's going to do this =/

And there ya have it folks, don't shoot the criminals and don't run them over, yes I was waiting for either Noir or one other poster to tell us how evil this is :laugh: I am sure the other will be back around by the end of the week and explain if he was a white Christian male then have at it. :rolleyes: But men of color are picked on. :laugh:

[Noir]

And there ya have it folks, don't shoot the criminals and don't run them over, yes I was waiting for either Noir or one other poster to tell us how evil this is :laugh: I am sure the other will be back around by the end of the week and explain if he was a white Christian male then have at it. :rolleyes: But men of color are picked on. :laugh:


Holy Hell what a idiot.


I just can't figure out what in the hell that cop was thinking,


I am just dumbfounded, can't figure out what the heck he was doing.


Still not sure if that was the best way to stop him though.

:rolleyes:

[Jeff]

:rolleyes:


:laugh::laugh: Noir I didn't say you where wrong, I was just saying I knew you would comment.

When I replied to this thread originally I was thinking of you and well Um never mind, and I always try and understand what everyone is saying even if I don't agree ( we all have opinions and sometimes others are right ) and after watching the video I knew the 2 of you would have a issue with it, as well as all the like minded thinkers, if it was up to me with all the laws he broke I think he should of been shot, but like I said that would of started all kinds of trash, and ya have to admit this is a tad bit bazaar to say the least. If the cruiser that was leading had run him over it wouldn't of been as bad, but like I have already posted this guy looked like he was racing to be first.

[red state]

Holy Hell what a idiot. JEFF, the guy was possibly wanting DBC but if that is the case he should have at least shot one of their cars.



I just can't figure out what in the hell that cop was thinking, HE WAS THINKING: "WHAT THE $#!t IS THE LEAD COP THINKING....RAM HIS SORRY @$$ BEFORE HE GETS TO THAT MAJOR HIGHWAY." LOOK, THE GUY WAS OBVIOUSLY DISTURBED AND YOU HAVE TO GET PRETTY DARN CLOSE TO TAZER SOMEONE OR TRANQUILIZE THEM.....ONLY OTHER OPTION IS TO ENDANGER YOURSELF MORE OR LESS. THE RAMMING WAS LESS AND I AGREE WITH THIS COP 110%. SOME OF HIS SHOTS WERE AT DANGEROUS DEGREES THAT COULD HAVE KILLED SOMEONE A MILE AWAY!!! I DON'T LIKE COPS MUCH, BELIEVE WE NEED 50% OF GOV/AND COPS THAN WE HAVE BUT FOR THE 50% WE KEEP.......I WANT THAT COP FOR WHAT HE DID (NOT WHAT HE'S DONE OR MAY DO IN THE FUTURE). HAD TO GET THAT IN SO THAT REV OR NOIR DON'T SLAP ME WITH A "LOOK HEAR" MOMENT. HA!!!!



I am just dumbfounded, can't figure out what the heck he was doing. I WAS THRILLED AND HAVE WATCHED IT OVER AND OVER AND OVER, WOKE UP THIS MORNING LAUGHING ABOUT IT AND MY WIFE SIMPLE SHOOK HER HEAD. hhHHHHHHHHHHHAHHhhhHaaa!!! IT IS STILL FUNNY!!!!



Still not sure if that was the best way to stop him though. OF COURSE IT WAS....YOU BROTHER POSTED THE GUY'S RECORD I BELIEVE AND I SAW ON THE NEWS STATION YESTERDAY MORNING THAT HE HAD AN EXTENSIVE RECORD WHILE SHOWING THE FOOTAGE OF WHY THE COPS WERE CALLED IN THE FIRST PLACE. THE MORON IS ON TAPE AT WALMART TALKING ABOUT THE GUN AND AMMO WITH THE CLERK BEFORE HE STOLE SAID AMMO AND GUN AND STARTED SHOOTING. HE SHOT SEVERAL TIMES WHILE THE IDIOT COP (WITH A BOSTONIAN LISP) FOLLOWS. I WOULDN'T DOUBT THE TOUGH COP ISN'T FROM MEMPHIS.....FOLKS FROM ALL OVER ARE RECRUITING OUR BEST WHILE LEAVING THE POLITICALLY CORRECT UNDER THE RULE OF OUR BLACK MAYOR (ANYONE REMEMBER KATRINA)???


FOR THE COP WHO ACTUALLY PROTECTED THE COMMUNITY AND SERVED THIS MEXICAN-LOOKING MULTIPLE OFFENDER JUSTICE:

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::c lap::clap::clap::beer:

[Bilgerat]

Maybe it's just me, but after watching Morning Joe and seeing these pencil necked twenty something, whining babies expound about their thoughts on how the LEO should have done something else, I can only have one thought.

If you have a better way, join a force, strap on a gun and stand up.

Since most of those I described above can only list a college background as a resume, I just can't get excited about their candy ass whining.

[revelarts]

I get the impression that some folks here think this is good police work?
No long commentary on my part. It was a bad situation but it does seems to me they have done better.
And we should expect better, is that crazy talk?

Some here seemed to think it was maybe a harsh or questionable BEFORE they found out what he'd done.
But after, well, then that makes sense because the guy's a criminal SOB.
So, OK are the cops now suppose to be the ones that dish out street "justice" with their car bumpers and a gun?
or are they suppose just catch the bad guys get them go to court for what we used to call "due process" and the like?
Are the Cops the judge jurors and executioners now?
Dispensing instant justice because an accused criminal did (fill in list here)?

I'm just asking.

[NightTrain]

I get the impression that some folks here think this is good police work?
No long commentary on my part. It was a bad situation but it does seems to me they have done better.
And we should expect better, is that crazy talk?

Some here seemed to think it was maybe a harsh or questionable BEFORE they found out what he'd done.
But after, well, then that makes sense because the guy's a criminal SOB.
So, OK are the cops now suppose to be the ones that dish out street "justice" with their car bumpers and a gun?
or are they suppose just catch the bad guys get them go to court for what we used to call "due process" and the like?
Are the Cops the judge jurors and executioners now?
Dispensing instant justice because an accused criminal did (fill in list here)?

I'm just asking.

I would agree with you, but you must have missed the part where he pointed that rifle at a cop prior to the video - that's why the first cop was being so cautious. Then when he fired a round off into the air, he demonstrated that the rifle was indeed loaded.

He got what was coming to him, and is lucky he wasn't shot & killed instead.

[Bilgerat]

I get the impression that some folks here think this is good police work?
No long commentary on my part. It was a bad situation but it does seems to me they have done better.
And we should expect better, is that crazy talk?

Some here seemed to think it was maybe a harsh or questionable BEFORE they found out what he'd done.
But after, well, then that makes sense because the guy's a criminal SOB.
So, OK are the cops now suppose to be the ones that dish out street "justice" with their car bumpers and a gun?
or are they suppose just catch the bad guys get them go to court for what we used to call "due process" and the like?
Are the Cops the judge jurors and executioners now?
Dispensing instant justice because an accused criminal did (fill in list here)?

I'm just asking.


Please enlighten us with what YOU would have done.

Remember the situation

1 He's accused of stealing a rifle and ammo from Walmart, breaking into a church and setting it on fire, leading a home invasion, robbing a convenience store and finally discharging the stolen weapon at one of the LEO's following him.

2) Let's remember the location where he was taken down, he was heading towards a business area where deadly force most likely would have been needed to prevent a hostage crisis or far worse.

So please, what would you have done here? Take a chance with YOUR life (and fellow Officer's lives) by trying to talk him down?

Or do what Officer Rapiejko did, graze him with the vehicle and remove any further danger to the community?

[fj1200]

Are the Cops the judge jurors and executioners now?

Not any more than before. Replace the car with a gun and you still have the same question; was it justifiable?

This would seem to be the appropriate technique in the LA assault where the shooters were wearing so much armor that the police couldn't penetrate it. A car would have solved that problem.

[revelarts]

Please enlighten us with what YOU would have done?

what I would have done, would probably been voted down by a cop speeding pass me to hit him with the car.
That's part of the problem. the police didn't seem to have ANY real plan to deal with this type of situation.

Bilgerat they are the rough, tough, heroes, laying their lives on the line etc etc.. So much better equipped and trained on the range and field to deal wisely with the terror of 21st century criminals with guns and more. But my mom could have hit the guy with a car.
SO i ask is that the best our over militarized and highly trained police can do here? Really?

I have 2 Ideas of what could have ben done instead but it depends on their equipment. But there's no guarantee that ANYthing they or I did would turn out well. No guarantee that the cop driving the car wouldn't be shot. But at the very least it seems you'd pull your car a safe distance away pull you gun while behind the car and say "stop, put down your weapon, hands on the air". The question remains was a hit and run the best tactic to use in this situation?

The guy fired in the air and pointed at a cop, (Stupid, i'm surprised he walked away from that) But sounds like he never fired AT police. Police shouldn't take stupid chances but danger's part of the job as well. And there's no guarantee that the guy ever would have fired again. He had at least 2 chances and didn't that tells you something. To many it only says he target practice.

There's no perfect solution, but extreme violence should always be the LAST resort for police it seems to me.
Some here seem to prefer a W.W.West or preemptive strike style police action.
we disagree.

[SassyLady]

So, guess where I live now? Marana, AZ

I am more than OK with how the cop solved a volatile situation. When you have someone like that walking around in YOUR neighborhood, stealing guns and ammo and then not only brandishing the gun, but defiantly showing the cops that he is not afraid to use it, I want him stopped and I don't care how.

I feel that the cop's action was appropriate and effective. His job is to keep a volatile situation from escalating and he did it without putting any one else at risk. I know there will be some of you that will theorize about all kinds of different things the cops should have done. Monday morning quarterbacking is pretty convenient to some.

If you don't want a cop running you down or shooting you, then don't rob a 7-Eleven, or set fire to a church, break into someone's home and steal a car, steal a gun and ammo and point a gun at someone (especially a LEO).

Just saying ............

[LongTermGuy]

So, guess where I live now? Marana, AZ

I am more than OK with how the cop solved a volatile situation. When you have someone like that walking around in YOUR neighborhood, stealing guns and ammo and then not only brandishing the gun, but defiantly showing the cops that he is not afraid to use it, I want him stopped and I don't care how.

I feel that the cop's action was appropriate and effective. His job is to keep a volatile situation from escalating and he did it without putting any one else at risk. I know there will be some of you that will theorize about all kinds of different things the cops should have done. Monday morning quarterbacking is pretty convenient to some.

If you don't want a cop running you down or shooting you, then don't rob a 7-Eleven, or set fire to a church, break into someone's home and steal a car, steal a gun and ammo and point a gun at someone (especially a LEO).

Just saying ............

:clap::clap:

*Pretty simple and easy to comprehend.....act like a responsible human...be treated as a responsible human...`

[jimnyc]

I still think this way was likely wrong, and will get the officer in trouble. I suppose they have guidelines (not to mention partners). BUT - BUT - BUT - if me, I would have told him you have 10 seconds to drop the weapon, and then shot him directly in the chest with a rifle to ensure the threat is over. If you look at how many ways this scenario could have played out, I'm betting that most of them would be with the perp being dead. Basically, he played suicide by cop, and lost.

[Jeff]

I still think this way was likely wrong, and will get the officer in trouble. I suppose they have guidelines (not to mention partners). BUT - BUT - BUT - if me, I would have told him you have 10 seconds to drop the weapon, and then shot him directly in the chest with a rifle to ensure the threat is over. If you look at how many ways this scenario could have played out, I'm betting that most of them would be with the perp being dead. Basically, he played suicide by cop, and lost.

This I agree with ( well if he had dropped the weapon I would of then told him to get on the ground and then took him into custody) and honestly I feel yes this is more what the police are suppose to do. Yes the guy would of been dead instead of just hurt ( if he didn't obey the cops orders ) but he also would of had that 10 seconds to drop the gun and get on the ground. As you all know I stand with the cops ( mostly ) on these cases but in this video it just looked very unprofessional, the cop that ran him over ( as stated earlier ) looked like all he wanted to do was be the first one to get him, and then make the 6 o clock news. Yes I still stand with if you aren't breaking the law you don't get shot but I also believe the cops have to do things in a professional and uniform matter.

[namvet]

im no cop but i would have backed the car up then crushed his brain

[Kathianne]

im no cop but i would have backed the car up then crushed his brain

Which is likely the reason you're not a cop! ;)

[LongTermGuy]

im no cop but i would have backed the car up then crushed his brain


`Then got out and pissed on it...(cause ya know it will be on video)as a reminder to other idiots who wanna play stupid....enough with the political correctness bull-shit when it comes to ignorant savages....`

[LongTermGuy]

Which is likely the reason you're not a cop! ;)


.....says you...^^^ :)

*He is not a cop because..one its wasn't `his choice`...two....its the wrong period of time to be able to be good cop....or a good soldier for that matter....with all the touchy feely arrogant left leaning idiots out there who prefer to be soft on Crime...

[Jeff]

No charges will be filed and I believe that is the correct call, I still believe it was a bit crazy how he stopped this guy but as many have pointed out the guy is still alive and no cops or innocent bystanders where hurt. It seems this cop has been in trouble before, with settlements in NY for 20 grand and allegations that he pointed a gun at someone and choked him, although it appears the police force paid the out of court settlement they cleared the cop of any wrong doings.



TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) — Arizona police officer Michael Rapiejko felt he had no option but to run over an armed man walking down a busy business corridor, according to an audio recording of an interview with a prosecutor following the Feb. 19 incident that went viral this week.

The 34-year-old officer from the Marana Police Department, a suburb north of Tucson, told an investigator he had considered shooting the suspect but that doing so would put other officers and bystanders at risk.
The interview was released to The Associated Press on Friday after a public records request.


http://news.yahoo.com/officer-rammed-car-armed-man-details-encounter-225026290.html

[jimnyc]

I think this really says it all:


Policing experts say Rapiejko's use of his patrol car to stop Valencia was unconventional and even outrageous, but justified because of the danger Valencia posed to officers and others around him.

The explanation is completely rational now that I read it. Still nuts, but I don't see criminal intent either. Just a short walk away from businesses, already showed he was willing to pull the trigger, no time for knowledge of bystanders... I think this would have been a legitimate shooting if they killed him on the spot. He used an alternative method to subdue a serious threat who showed no signs of stopping all day. The alternative likely would have been a quick death, and then of course the same reaction from the public and blaming the officer anyway.

[namvet]

to bad we didn't really make one. or an army of em


http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/9/26/1380194910118/robocop-008.jpg

[aboutime]

For those of us few who stand with, and feel a need to defend our police officers WHO ARE NOT the bad cops.

How bout our police forces across the nation decide to pick...just one day, when none of them will confront, arrest, or even recognize any criminal activity as a means of preventing ANY officer from being accused of being guilty of BRUTALITY across the board.

Anyone feel like calling 911, and getting NO RESPONSE? Try it, then complain about how the cops are so terrible, and brutal because your problem wasn't handled JUST THE WAY you think it should have been?

The cops should get the opportunity to put the SHOE on the other foot, and call ALL CIVILIANS WHO HATE COPS, those hateful names like Ignorant Jerks who expect cops to be everywhere in an instant!

[SassyLady]

My daughter's best friend is a Tucson cop. Talked with her Saturday night and she said they are authorized to use their vehicles as deadly force.

[red state]

This I agree with ( well if he had dropped the weapon I would of then told him to get on the ground and then took him into custody) and honestly I feel yes this is more what the police are suppose to do. Yes the guy would of been dead instead of just hurt ( if he didn't obey the cops orders ) but he also would of had that 10 seconds to drop the gun and get on the ground. As you all know I stand with the cops ( mostly ) on these cases but in this video it just looked very unprofessional, the cop that ran him over ( as stated earlier ) looked like all he wanted to do was be the first one to get him, and then make the 6 o clock news. Yes I still stand with if you aren't breaking the law you don't get shot but I also believe the cops have to do things in a professional and uniform matter.

Jeff, you and I usually see eye to eye on most topics but I disagree with you and REV on this one....although I'm no cop lover at all (even though I have one in the family - a GOOD ONE).

It is my opinion that the lead cop was new or newer to the field or simply made poor judgement out of fear that the media would fry his @$$. The cop that took action, did so to save lives. Should the cop have pulled over and warned the scum (AGAIN) to lay down his weapon and then allow the rifled man time to fire upon the cop or his partners? Should the cop have waited till the scum had reached the busy freeway and randomly shot at businessmen, teachers, soccer moms or school buses made their way to work, school or the soccer field? No, I think the guy had PLENTY of time to surrender and death by car or bullet is no more dead or hurt than than any other means.

The cop was not playing judge, jury and executioner as Rev would have us believe. He stopped the guy at all cost (considering the situation). There have been plenty of injustices at the hand of cops posted on this forum that I agree with (including the Boston Bombing and Katrina) but this is not one of them.

[Kathianne]

My daughter's best friend is a Tucson cop. Talked with her Saturday night and she said they are authorized to use their vehicles as deadly force.

My brother said the same thing the other day. He also said that the guy was lucky to be alive, most would have just shot him, justifiably.

[Jeff]

Jeff, you and I usually see eye to eye on most topics but I disagree with you and REV on this one....although I'm no cop lover at all (even though I have one in the family - a GOOD ONE).

It is my opinion that the lead cop was new or newer to the field or simply made poor judgement out of fear that the media would fry his @$$. The cop that took action, did so to save lives. Should the cop have pulled over and warned the scum (AGAIN) to lay down his weapon and then allow the rifled man time to fire upon the cop or his partners? Should the cop have waited till the scum had reached the busy freeway and randomly shot at businessmen, teachers, soccer moms or school buses made their way to work, school or the soccer field? No, I think the guy had PLENTY of time to surrender and death by car or bullet is no more dead or hurt than than any other means.

The cop was not playing judge, jury and executioner as Rev would have us believe. He stopped the guy at all cost (considering the situation). There have been plenty of injustices at the hand of cops posted on this forum that I agree with (including the Boston Bombing and Katrina) but this is not one of them.

Red as you said we usually do agree and we are on the same page here in a way, yes take out the trash, I believe in that whole heartily, but do it in a professional way. If there were pedestrians around or he had fired at the police I am in full agreement with you, but there wasn't and he fired into the air, did he deserve to be taken down hard yes, but the police had time to get on the PA and state drop the weapon and hit the ground, but they didn't, what they did was give those that are running around protesting more ammo. Even though they stopped this scum and saved someone from getting hurt and took him down without killing him ( but lets be honest, a well placed bullet is more likley to take him down without killing him that running him over with a couple thousand pounds, yes this cop didn't know if he was killing the guy or just wounding him ) but they looked horrible doing so, as I stated a quick drop the weapon and when they got no response then it is time to take him down anyway they have to. But for a cop to come from behind to run him over, well come on man that makes him look like one of the bad cops, as for the cop being new, well if that is the case he has just been schooled on situations like this. Again put this guy in a crowded neighborhood and I agree, but I didn't see anyone in the immediate area not did I see him aim that gun at the police, IMO the cop that ran him over should have done things more professional like, if this guy had died it would have become a major issue.