America was founded as a Christian Nation

[Voted4Reagan]

"from Many...ONE"

[pebetratedlobe]

http://www.earlychristianamerica.com/index.html

"Christianity is the principle and all-pervading element, the deepest and most solid foundation, of all our civil institutions. It is the religion of the people,--the national religion; but we have neither an established church nor an established religion. An established *church* implies a connection between church and state, and the possession of *civil* and *political* as well as ecclesiastical and spiritual power of the former. Neither exist in this country; for the people have wisely judged that religion, as a general rule, is safer in their hands than in those of their rulers. In the United States there is no toleration; for all enjoy equality in religious freedom, not as a *privilege* granted, but as a *right* secured by the fundamental law of our social compact. Liberty of conscience and freedom of worship are not chartered immunities, but rights and duties founded on the *constitutional* republication of reason and revelation."

[glockmail]

Holy thread dust-off, Batman! :laugh:

[fj1200]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...

:)

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

:) But the president(bambastard) can make regulations and entire Federal departments favor one religion= Islam and he does not transgress against that!?? Surely you jest!! He appointed several Muslim Brotherhood members at top positions in the Federal government etc. -
http://www.conservapedia.com/Obama's_Religion

Public opinion polls show that despite liberal denial, at least one in five or 17% of Americans recognize that Barack Hussein Obama is a Muslim.[2][3]. Obama himself has professed to be a Christian; When interviewed by Christianity Today magazine, Obama said:

"I am a Christian, and I am a devout Christian. I believe in the redemptive death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe that that faith gives me a path to be cleansed of sin and have eternal life. But most importantly, I believe in the example that Jesus set by feeding the hungry and healing the sick and always prioritizing the least of these over the powerful. I didn't 'fall out in church' as they say, but there was a very strong awakening in me of the importance of these issues in my life. I didn't want to walk alone on this journey. Accepting Jesus Christ in my life has been a powerful guide for my conduct and my values and my ideals.

"There is one thing that I want to mention that I think is important. Part of what we've been seeing during the course of this campaign is some scurrilous e-mails that have been sent out, denying my faith, talking about me being a Muslim, suggesting that I got sworn in at the U.S. Senate with a Quran in my hand or that I don't pledge allegiance to the flag. I think it's really important for your readers to know that I have been a member of the same church for almost 20 years, and I have never practiced Islam. I am respectful of the religion, but it's not my own. One of the things that's very important in this day and age is that we don't use religion as a political tool and certainly that we don't lie about religion as a way to score political points. I just thought it was important to get that in there to dispel rumors that have been over the Internet. We've done so repeatedly, but obviously it's a political tactic of somebody to try to provide this misinformation.[4]

Despite these claims, many Americans realize that he is, in fact, a Muslim. The following is a list of items that indicates that Obama is a Muslim:
##Obama's unusual selection of Chuck Hagel, a former Republican senator most sympathetic to Muslim positions in the Middle East, to be Secretary of Defense despite intense objections by both political parties. Iranian State Press approves of the choice. [5]
##Obama seems to emotionally hold a Muslim view about Israel, in contrast with Americans who have been educated as Obama has. Obama never visited Israel during his first term as president despite repeated criticisms of his failure to do so, he oddly waited many days before even mentioning the rocket attacks on Israel in late 2012, and he appears very uncomfortable even discussing issues related to Israel on television.
##Obama declared in prepared remarks, "The United States has been enriched by Muslim Americans. Many other Americans have Muslims in their families or have lived in a Muslim-majority country - I know, because I am one of them."[6][7]
##Obama's wife Michelle does not accompany him to Muslim nations because Sharia law would apply to her there; on a presidential trip she was with him until France, but then returned home.
##In prepared remarks in April 2012, Obama referred to Jesus as "a" Son of God rather than as "the" Son of God: "And for me, and I’m sure for some of you, it’s also a chance to remember the tremendous sacrifice that led up to that day, and all that Christ endured—not just as a Son of God, but as a human being."[8]
##Obama's background and outlook are Muslim, and fewer than 1% of Muslims convert to Christianity.[9][10] Although Obama attended a Catholic school while in Indonesia, he was a part of the Muslim society there.[11]
##Obama's middle name (Hussein) references Husayn, who was the grandson of Muhammad.[12][13] Only after Obama became politically ambitious did he declare himself to be a Christian, yet he never replaced his Muslim name "Hussein" with a Christian one as some do when they undergo a religious conversion. For example, when the Italian journalist Magdi Allam recently converted to Christianity, he took a new name: "Cristiano".[14] When Saul became a Christian, he changed his name to "Paul"; when the famous boxer Cassius Clay converted to Islam, he took the Muslim name of Muhammad Ali. "It is common for those converting to a new religion to change their name on conversion"[15] or adopt a Christian name at baptism.[16] Obama also used his middle name when sworn in as President. However, even if he were actually a Muslim, he would not necessarily have to change his name according to Muslim tradition.[17]
##Obama has said "John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith."[18] in an interview with George Stephanopoulos discussing whether John McCain's campaign has suggested that Obama is not a Christian. George Stephanopoulos -- who had previously been a high-ranking Democrat in the Clinton Administration -- then suggested that Obama change his answer to refer instead to "Christian faith."[19]
##He has said that "Islam can be compatible with the modern world."[20]
##Obama said the Muslim call to prayer is "one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset," and recited "with a first-class Arabic accent" the opening lines: Allah is Supreme! ... I witness that there is no god but Allah ...."[21]
##Liberals at the New York Times and the Huffington Post fawn over the Indonesian ring that Obama has worn since long before his marriage to Michelle Obama. [22][23] It has been reported that this ring has Islamic inscriptions. [24]
##Obama stated that the Autobiography of Malcolm X, which was co-written by Alex Haley, inspired him in his youth.[25]
##Obama raised nearly $1 million and campaigned for a Kenyan presidential candidate who had a written agreement with Muslim leaders promising to convert Kenya to an Islamic state that bans Christianity.[26]
##Obama's claims of conversion to Christianity arose after he became politically ambitious, lacking a date of conversion or baptism.[27]
##In 2007, while Obama was a candidate, the White House military office assigned him the Secret Service code name "Renegade".[28] "Renegade" conventionally describes someone who goes against normal conventions of behavior, but its first usage was to describe someone who has turned from their religion. It is a word derived from the Spanish renegado, which originally meant "Christian turned Muslim."[29]
##In the book Obama,"Renegade" his friends say that "he actually really wasn't much of a churchgoer." [30]
##On the 2008 campaign trail, Obama was reading "The Post-American World" by Fareed Zakaria,[31] which was a general discussion of US foreign policy that was on the non-fiction best-seller lists for weeks.[32] Although Zakaria had Muslim ancestors, he is a non-Muslim educated at Yale with a Ph.D. from Harvard.
##Contrary to Christianity, the Islamic doctrine of taqiyya allows adherents to deny they are Muslim if it would be dangerous not to.
##Obama uses the Muslim Pakistani pronunciation for "Pakistan" rather than the common American one.[33]
##Obama favors Pakistan, a Muslim nation, in its conflicts with India, a mostly Hindu nation.[34] However, the Obama Administration's relationship with Pakistan could be driven by its critical role in the battle against al-Qaeda in Afghanistan.
##Obama was thoroughly exposed to Christianity as an adult in Chicago prior to attending law school, yet no one at law school saw him display any interest in converting. Obama unabashedly explained how he became "churched" in a 2007 speech: "It's around that time [while working as an organizer for the Developing Communities Project (DCP) of the Calumet Community Religious Conference (CCRC) in Chicago] that some pastors I was working with came around and asked if I was a member of a church. 'If you're organizing churches,' they said, 'it might be helpful if you went to a church once in a while.' And I thought, 'I guess that makes sense.'"[35]





"I really endorse and support the policies that he has adopted,"
Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi said of President Barack Obama
as reported by the
Washington Post.[36]
##Obama is mentioned as helping to organize the 1995 Million Man March led by black Muslim leader Louis Farrakhan from the Nation of Islam. [37]
##Obama visited "more than one mosque" in Kenya while on a political trip there but did not visit any churches, although there are a large proportion of churches and even a National Temple in Kenya.[38]
##Obama enjoyed a bigger increase in voter support in 2008 (compared to 2004) by Muslims than by any other voting group, including blacks;[39] "Muslim turnout in the U.S. elections reached 95 percent, the highest Muslim turnout in U.S. history."[40]
##"President-elect Barack Hussein Obama has yet to attend [Sunday] church services since winning the White House earlier ..., a departure from the example of his two immediate predecessors."[41][42] Liberal sources claim that this is due to security concerns. However, in general, Presidents rarely attend weekly church services while in office.[43] Yet, the Obama family has attended Christian church serves at various times since becoming President in 2009.[44]
##In 2009, Justice John Roberts failed to administer the oath of office correctly while Obama placed his hand on a Bible. To avoid any claims that Obama was not the real President because of mis-stating the oath, Roberts dropped by the White House to re-administering the oath the next day, but no Bible was used for that private re-do of the oath.
##At the G-20 summit in April 2009, Obama bowed deeply to Saudi King Abdullah, a Muslim who is also the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques.[45]




President Obama bowing to the King of Saudi Arabia - April 2009Never before in the history of the U.S. has a president displayed such shocking deference to a foreign official and Obama has not bowed to any other royal leaders. Obama later stated, "We have to change our behavior in showing the Muslim world greater respect."[46] Obama's spin doctors and left-wing apologists dismissed the obviousness of the bow. One anonymous aide stated, "It wasn't a bow. He grasped his hand with two hands, and he's taller than King Abdullah."[47] However, in video of the incident, Obama's left hand can clearly be seen staying at his side until after he had finished his bow.[48] Additionally, Obama also met with Queen Elizabeth, who is much shorter than King Abdullah, but he did not bow when he shook her hand and neither he nor the queen appeared to have any difficulty.[49] (Many liberals and even a handful of conservatives have proposed that President Bush also bowed before King Abdullah.[50] However, there is a vast, inexorable difference between bending down to receive a medal as Bush did and bowing in deference to a foreign leader as Obama did.)
##Obama required that a religiously affiliated college take the extraordinary action of concealing with wood the monogram "IHS", which represents the name of Jesus, during a speech by Obama there[51][Dead link]
##In 2006, Obama gave an irreverent speech about using the Bible in public policy. It resembled a stand-up comedy act, with Obama making fun of the books of the Torah, the Ten Commandments, the Sermon on the Mount and other key Biblical passages.[52]
##In 2010, while Obama was president, the Missile Defense Agency changed its logo, incorporating a crescent and star.[53] The new logo closely resembles that of the Iranian Space Agency.[54] The new logo was designed in 2007, prior to Obama's election as president.
##In 2012, Obama participated in a $40,000 per plate fundraiser on Holy Thursday, which many devout Christians would find to be inappropriate.
##On September 25, 2012, in his address to United Nations General Assembly, Obama said that "The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam."[55] This outrageous comment was predictably ignored by the lamestream media, but rightly highlighted by Conservative commentators.[56]

[fj1200]

:rolleyes: I can read just fine, no Reader's Digest version necessary, but I find myself ignoring the rants more and more.

[defectiverepresentative]

Regardless of whether or not America was founded as a Christian nation, our founding fathers aren't here anymore. They merely provided the scaffolding to building our nation. The facts on the ground have changed and America is no longer predominately Christian.

[aboutime]

Regardless of whether or not America was founded as a Christian nation, our founding fathers aren't here anymore. They merely provided the scaffolding to building our nation. The facts on the ground have changed and America is no longer predominately Christian.


WRONG! Whoever you are, pretending to be a new member here sounds very, very familiar.

Your Liberalism has jumped out...off the page.

[Abbey Marie]

Regardless of whether or not America was founded as a Christian nation, our founding fathers aren't here anymore. They merely provided the scaffolding to building our nation. The facts on the ground have changed and America is no longer predominately Christian.

Link-proof?

In any event, whether or not someone is still alive is a mighty poor reason to reject foundational laws.

[Larrymc]

Regardless of whether or not America was founded as a Christian nation, our founding fathers aren't here anymore. They merely provided the scaffolding to building our nation. The facts on the ground have changed and America is no longer predominately Christian.A great part of that scaffolding was built on a faith in the God of the Bible and its teachings on how to live and Govern which should be timeless and without which it can't stand, we indeed are not predominately Christian anymore, and or crumbling in all sectors, we have remove God from our court rooms and schools but encourage it in our prisons, just one example of the backward liberal agenda at work!!

[Drummond]

Regardless of whether or not America was founded as a Christian nation, our founding fathers aren't here anymore. They merely provided the scaffolding to building our nation. The facts on the ground have changed and America is no longer predominately Christian.

How much of this can be attributed to wishful thinking ?

You say 'the facts on the ground have changed'. Would you care to explain that ? What 'facts' have turned America into a 'non-Christian' country, in your estimation ?

[darin]

Fact: The kind of "Christianity" practiced by puritanical, and later 'whatever they were' back in the 1700s was bullcrap :)

[Drummond]

Fact: The kind of "Christianity" practiced by puritanical, and later 'whatever they were' back in the 1700s was bullcrap :)

... and, once upon a time, 'we' had the Crusades ....

The world changes. Societies and political situations change. That doesn't mean that Christianity has to be dispensed with as a consequence !

[aboutime]

Fact: The kind of "Christianity" practiced by puritanical, and later 'whatever they were' back in the 1700s was bullcrap :)


dmp. Just wondering. Exactly, what kind of "Christianity" was practiced back then that you now identify as BULLCRAP?

[darin]

... and, once upon a time, 'we' had the Crusades ....

The world changes. Societies and political situations change. That doesn't mean that Christianity has to be dispensed with as a consequence !

The crusades were a reaction to invading islamic armies. Just for record - you might know that. Christianity - in its true sense, is beautiful. :)


dmp. Just wondering. Exactly, what kind of "Christianity" was practiced back then that you now identify as BULLCRAP?

Have you researched puritanical governance of behaviour?
The "Angry Bad God" theory - Where ministers brandished the Bible as the END-All and BE-All of God and his message for humanity. The scarlet letters. The witch hunts. The church operating outside of concepts of Love and Grace, focused upon wrath and judgment.

[Larrymc]

Fact: The kind of "Christianity" practiced by puritanical, and later 'whatever they were' back in the 1700s was bullcrap :)I have to agree religion in those days was law, denominations ruled, and that is what our founders were fleeing, though there faith in God was clear they agreed that no denomination should ever be held supreme, but unfortunately in an effort to keep that from ever happening in America they left an opening for anti-God and other faiths to question Americas roots in Christianity, i think its was unfortunate that our founders did not foresee this happening, but i have to say in there defense it has taken over Two Hundred years.

[aboutime]

The crusades were a reaction to invading islamic armies. Just for record - you might know that. Christianity - in its true sense, is beautiful. :)



Have you researched puritanical governance of behaviour?
The "Angry Bad God" theory - Where ministers brandished the Bible as the END-All and BE-All of God and his message for humanity. The scarlet letters. The witch hunts. The church operating outside of concepts of Love and Grace, focused upon wrath and judgment.


dmp. I just wondered. I'm by no means any kind of scholar about religion. But you reminded me of a movie from back in the sixties called "ELMER GANTRY" with Burt Lancaster.
Hell Fire and Brimstone????

Because I hesitate to get involved in religious discussions. I find it much easier, and less painful to just allow people to say whatever they want. And, I have no reasons to defend, or explain what, or who I place my faith in.
It's nobody else's business. Period.

[Caliban]

America was founded by a mix of people, almost all of whom were formally Christian, but the faith of many of them was no more than conventional and superficial. Really deeply pious types seem to have been the minority, although they certainly were represented. A large minority were also Deists of some kind, and there were a number of Masons.

The Founders represent a complex religious picture, but the English libertarian tradition--best represented by Locke--andFrench Enlightenment philosophers like Montesquieu and, above all perhaps, the pagan classical thinkers and historians, had a greater influence on the Early American Republic than the Bible, but it would also be wrong to call biblical influences insignificant.

[red state]

It is my opinion, given the extraordinary evidence to suggest otherwise, a grave wrong would be to state that our abundant CHRISTIAN founders who often quoted the Bible and added GOD into the equation of our early documents that was to be our foundation didn't have the GREATEST influence of our birth and maturity as a Nation. To this day, as seen from those who laid down their lives during WWII, we see a predominantly CHRISTIAN sacrifice in benefiting the world. So, sir, I dare say that THROUGHOUT our history, we are a Christian Nation that honors and tolerates ALL religions.....even the cults that would have our heads.

[Jeff]

It is my opinion, given the extraordinary evidence to suggest otherwise, a grave wrong would be to state that our abundant CHRISTIAN founders who often quoted the Bible and added GOD into the equation of our early documents that was to be our foundation didn't have the GREATEST influence of our birth and maturity as a Nation. To this day, as seen from those who laid down their lives during WWII, we see a predominantly CHRISTIAN sacrifice in benefiting the world. So, sir, I dare say that THROUGHOUT our history, we are a Christian Nation that honors and tolerates ALL religions.....even the cults that would have our heads.

Folks are twisting words to fit there needs now a days, yes we are and always will be a Christian Nation, No other religion would allow others to come in the way we have, we are tolerant of other religions, cultures ect.. Christian try to live and let live, think about it no other country that I know of does the things we do, such as all the different parades, we have African Americans, Italian Americans and so on, this is all because we have Christian beliefs. I have heard people say we are a melting pot ( because of all the different cultures ) and the only reason we have all the different cultures is because a real Christian wont stone you , cut your head off or do any other vile type thing because you are different, will they talk with you and try to get you to cross the line absolutely, but go into one of these Muslim countries and declare you are a Christian ( not a good idea if you where planning on a long life )

[Caliban]

Of course the Founders, like all educated men of the period, were well-grounded in the Bible whether they were fervent believers or not: it was part of the general education of almost every literate person. It was an unavoidable part of their literary world. That should come as no surprise.

The 18th century Enlightenment was not an intellectual atmosphere particularly warm to literal belief in the Bible and fervent religious expression apart from Methodism, which was for a long time regarded as a lower and lower-middle-class phenomenon. Even mainstream Anglican and Episcopalian churchmen condemned what they called, in the language of their time, 'enthusiasm' in religion.

The Founders were classic men of the Enlightenment. i have my problems with the Enlightenment, but you have to see the Founders clearly, as they really were, not to make them out to be people you would prefer them to be and more in accord with your own beliefs.

[Redrose]

Oh, fuck you.

This country was founded by a bunch of Deists and renegade Christians who had seen first-hand what dogmatic Christian dogma can do to wreck people's lives and they definitely were against identifying this country with any one religion.

You might argue that this is a Christian nation because most people are nominally Christian, but there is no official religion.

And most of the people who are nominally Christian couldn't give a rat's ass about going to church or practicing Christianity.


This country was founded by Christians, with a belief in Christian/Judeo beliefs and values. The layout of DC is in the shape of a cross. Our monuments are inscribed with religious mottos. Our money references God.

True, we have no official religion, but we do have freedom of religion. 80% of the country identifies themselves as Christian. When that number changes to say 80% identify themselves as
Born Again Druids, then we'll discuss options. Until them IN GOD WE TRUST.

[InExtremis]

This country was founded by Christians,

Yes some of the people who founded the country were of the Christian faith, some were also Athiests, Agnostic, muslims and many other faiths. The real question is whether or not you actually believe the intent of the people who fought for the Colonies during the Revolutionary War did it with the intent of starting some Christian Government?



The layout of DC is in the shape of a cross. Our monuments are inscribed with religious mottos. Our money references God.

Actually fun fact, George Washington initially chose the shape of Diamond for the Capital city. Which monuments are inscribed with religious mottos and what religion? I've always thought that placing 'In God We trust' on our money was more of a way of expressing our trust in Money. In capitalism, Money is God.



True, we have no official religion, but we do have freedom of religion.

And freedom from it. What does this mean to you though?


80% of the country identifies themselves as Christian. When that number changes to say 80% identify themselves as
Born Again Druids, then we'll discuss options. Until them IN GOD WE TRUST.

What does it mean when you say that we are a 'Christan Nation'?

Thanks,

[Thunderknuckles]

Yes some of the people who founded the country were of the Christian faith, some were also Athiests, Agnostic, muslims
No Muslims helped in the founding this country that I know of. This is mostly revisionist propaganda based on the fact that Thomas Jefferson owned a Qur'an and was interested in its tenets as he was with other religions.

[LongTermGuy]

`The problem is that Liberals interpret he constitution as 'separation of church and state.'

There is no where in our Constitution that it says that. By creating a free nation, our founding fathers were stating that we were a Christian nation, but if you were not Christian, or did not want your child learning creationism in school... then you can freely start your own school, with your own money, and do what you please.

No one is stopping people from doing that and that is what our founding fathers had in mind. Liberals, well, check out 'If I wanted America to Fail' by freemarket America. Also, look at the documentary called 'Dreams From My Real Father' It's about Obama...`



`Now that Barack Obama is the official Democrat nominee his past words are coming under more scrutiny. In a June 2007 speech Obama said .........

~“Whatever we once were, we’re no longer a Christian nation. At least not just. We are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, and a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation and a nation of nonbelievers”`~


`How much longer will God protect and bless this nation if we not only don’t act like a Christian nation, but also openly proclaim we are not a Christian nation? `

*Not a Christian nation? Here’s a sampling of quotes from just a few of the nation’s early leaders:

First Supreme Court Justice John Jay (served from 1789 to 1795)
“Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the priveledge and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.”



Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story (served from 1812 to 1845)


“I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law. There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations.”



Supreme Court Justice David Brewer (server from 1890 to 1910)
“This is a religious people. This is historically true. From the discovery of this continent to the present hour, there is a single voice making this affirmation … We find everywhere a clear recognition of the same truth … These, and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation.“



John Quincy Adams (6th President of the United States)
“The greatest glory of the American Revolution was this: It connected in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.”

[InExtremis]

No Muslims helped in the founding this country that I know of. This is mostly revisionist propaganda based on the fact that Thomas Jefferson owned a Qur'an and was interested in its tenets as he was with other religions.

Hi, I know its a bit lost to history, and I can see some of the confusion with how I made that statement. However, there were many Muslim men who did indeed Serve in the First Continental Army under George Washington.

That may not constitute 'helping found this country' in your opinion, but it certainly does mine.

[InExtremis]

`The problem is that Liberals interpret he constitution as 'separation of church and state.'

There is no where in our Constitution that it says that. By creating a free nation, our founding fathers were stating that we were a Christian nation, but if you were not Christian, or did not want your child learning creationism in school... then you can freely start your own school, with your own money, and do what you please.

No one is stopping people from doing that and that is what our founding fathers had in mind. Liberals, well, check out 'If I wanted America to Fail' by freemarket America. Also, look at the documentary called 'Dreams From My Real Father' It's about Obama...`



`Now that Barack Obama is the official Democrat nominee his past words are coming under more scrutiny. In a June 2007 speech Obama said .........

~“Whatever we once were, we’re no longer a Christian nation. At least not just. We are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, and a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation and a nation of nonbelievers”`~


`How much longer will God protect and bless this nation if we not only don’t act like a Christian nation, but also openly proclaim we are not a Christian nation? `

*Not a Christian nation? Here’s a sampling of quotes from just a few of the nation’s early leaders:

First Supreme Court Justice John Jay (served from 1789 to 1795)
“Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the priveledge and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.”



Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story (served from 1812 to 1845)


“I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law. There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations.”



Supreme Court Justice David Brewer (server from 1890 to 1910)
“This is a religious people. This is historically true. From the discovery of this continent to the present hour, there is a single voice making this affirmation … We find everywhere a clear recognition of the same truth … These, and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation.“



John Quincy Adams (6th President of the United States)
“The greatest glory of the American Revolution was this: It connected in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.”





Some of your quotes are suspect, but I do however like like this quote if it is indeed true:

"Whatever we once were, we’re no longer a Christian nation. At least not just. We are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, and a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation and a nation of nonbelievers”`~"

Thats a very good sentiment to have in this great melting pot of ours.

Thanks,

[LongTermGuy]

Some of your quotes are suspect, but I do however like like this quote if it is indeed true:

"Whatever we once were, we’re no longer a Christian nation. At least not just. We are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, and a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation and a nation of nonbelievers”`~"

Thats a very good sentiment to have in this great melting pot of ours.

Thanks,


Many `Americans` do not Like that quote....


`It is what it is...I find what I can....any of those quotes can be found...enjoy...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D0A0DVUCaI

[InExtremis]

Many `Americans` do not Like that quote....


`It is what it is...I find what I can....any of those quotes can be found...enjoy...





Hi, we can all produce quotes (supporting all sides) either real or imaginary that we would hope would somehow shed light on this controversial topic, however I like to think that that when we are honest with ourselves we understand that yes the Majority of Americans certainly identify as Christian. And to some degree yes Christian beliefs and ideals were present in the hearts and minds of the men who created our form of government. But to say that they were only of Christian faith is to to do a disservice to those same men. I like to think, that as with all intelligent people, they took elements of Christianity and elements of Natural religion and rationally decided which parts made sense and rejected those parts that did not make sense. These men for the most part believed that Jesus was a great moral philosopher, but many of them did not believe that he was a God. For instance, Thomas Jefferson did identify as a Christian, however he was quite vocal in his words and in his writings rejecting core Christian doctrine.

And then to make things more difficult, these same men would go on to update and change their beliefs as they grew older and perhaps wiser? or not. It is why the subject is so controversial, because there really is no clear and concise answer. The men who created our government were just men after all and to bestow on them some form of perfectness is perhaps asking too much. Because even if they were all Pagans or all Christians, it still doesn't actually speak one way or the other to the virtues of a Christian Religious government versus a Secular one.

[LongTermGuy]

Hi, we can all produce quotes (supporting all sides) either real or imaginary that we would hope would somehow shed light on this controversial topic, however I like to think that that when we are honest with ourselves we understand that yes the Majority of Americans certainly identify as Christian. And to some degree yes Christian beliefs and ideals were present in the hearts and minds of the men who created our form of government. But to say that they were only of Christian faith is to to do a disservice to those same men. I like to think, that as with all intelligent people, they took elements of Christianity and elements of Natural religion and rationally decided which parts made sense and rejected those parts that did not make sense. These men for the most part believed that Jesus was a great moral philosopher, but many of them did not believe that he was a God. For instance, Thomas Jefferson did identify as a Christian, however he was quite vocal in his words and in his writings rejecting core Christian doctrine.

And then to make things more difficult, these same men would go on to update and change their beliefs as they grew older and perhaps wiser? or not. It is why the subject is so controversial, because there really is no clear and concise answer. The men who created our government were just men after all and to bestow on them some form of perfectness is perhaps asking too much. Because even if they were all Pagans or all Christians, it still doesn't actually speak one way or the other to the virtues of a Christian Religious government versus a Secular one.


`God Bless America....and give it strength to endure the cancer of Liberalism...`

[InExtremis]

`God Bless America....and give it strength to endure the cancer of Liberalism...`

haha... I used to know these men who called themselves Monarchists, who seriously argued for a return to a Religious led Monarchy. They would have called you a liberal!

:beer:

[LongTermGuy]

haha... I used to know these men who called themselves Monarchists, who seriously argued for a return to a Religious led Monarchy. They would have called you a liberal!

:beer:


I've been called worse..


:beer:

[Gaffer]

What part of Freedom OF religion don't you understand IE? And please point me toward muslim's who served in any way during the revolutionary war. The Barbary Pirates were not on our side. There were also no Buddhists, Samurai or Hindu's serving in the Continental Army.

Jefferson kept a koran so he could study his enemy and what motivated him. Not out of any respect for the religion.

[Gunny]

Yes some of the people who founded the country were of the Christian faith, some were also Athiests, Agnostic, muslims and many other faiths. The real question is whether or not you actually believe the intent of the people who fought for the Colonies during the Revolutionary War did it with the intent of starting some Christian Government?




Actually fun fact, George Washington initially chose the shape of Diamond for the Capital city. Which monuments are inscribed with religious mottos and what religion? I've always thought that placing 'In God We trust' on our money was more of a way of expressing our trust in Money. In capitalism, Money is God.




And freedom from it. What does this mean to you though?



What does it mean when you say that we are a 'Christan Nation'?

Thanks,

Playing with words.

Western society is based on Judeo-Christianity. You can word-smith yourself all around the topic, but fact is fact. Our morals/values/laws are based on a religion. Guess it sucks to be a religion-hater.



Now, go ahead and explain how Judeo-Christian culture is inherent to homo sapiens.

[InExtremis]

Playing with words.

Western society is based on Judeo-Christianity. You can word-smith yourself all around the topic, but fact is fact. Our morals/values/laws are based on a religion. Guess it sucks to be a religion-hater.

Now, go ahead and explain how Judeo-Christian culture is inherent to homo sapiens.


Ha! I do appreciate the irony of your loaded and highly in-defensible statement. However I will not get bogged down in the swamp with you.

Thank you though!

[InExtremis]

What part of Freedom OF religion don't you understand IE? And please point me toward muslim's who served in any way during the revolutionary war. The Barbary Pirates were not on our side. There were also no Buddhists, Samurai or Hindu's serving in the Continental Army.

Jefferson kept a koran so he could study his enemy and what motivated him. Not out of any respect for the religion.

It is believed that many former slaves that were drafted into the First Continental Army were Muslim.


What was this conflict between Jefferson and the muslim Religion that you speak of? Why did Jefferson view Muslims as the enemy? I am asking, because I think you just made that up. As in you fabricated it out of thin air.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

What part of Freedom OF religion don't you understand IE? And please point me toward muslim's who served in any way during the revolutionary war. The Barbary Pirates were not on our side. There were also no Buddhists, Samurai or Hindu's serving in the Continental Army.

Jefferson kept a koran so he could study his enemy and what motivated him. Not out of any respect for the religion.



You cannot give Reputation to the same post twice.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

It is believed that many former slaves that were drafted into the First Continental Army were Muslim.


What was this conflict between Jefferson and the muslim Religion that you speak of? Why did Jefferson view Muslims as the enemy? I am asking, because I think you just made that up. As in you fabricated it out of thin air.




It is believed that many former slaves that were drafted into the First Continental Army were Muslim.


Believe by whom and give a link to this info please.
I have studied this nation's history deeply, never saw any of this... -Tyr

[Gaffer]

It is believed that many former slaves that were drafted into the First Continental Army were Muslim.


What was this conflict between Jefferson and the muslim Religion that you speak of? Why did Jefferson view Muslims as the enemy? I am asking, because I think you just made that up. As in you fabricated it out of thin air.

As Tyr said, believed by who. Sounds like that old "some people think..." used by media people to avoid naming who thinks that way.

As for Jefferson, does the phrase, shores of Tripoli, ring a bell? Jefferson fought the Barbary Pirates, if you know anything about history. He wanted to understand his enemy and how they thought, how they could best be defeated.

[DLT]

http://www.earlychristianamerica.com/index.html

FYI.....I just found and downloaded a free .pdf copy of this book at:

http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/ebooks/christian-life-and-character-of-the-civil-institutions-of-the-united-states-of-america

for anyone interested. Only thing is....the ebook is only 832 pages (not 1,000).

Thanks for posting this! (and yeah, I know, I know....it's an old thread....but still very helpful/useful).

[BoogyMan]

It is believed that many former slaves that were drafted into the First Continental Army were Muslim.

Typically when one makes such a claim as this one posts some kind of material upon which substantiation of the claim can be made.


What was this conflict between Jefferson and the muslim Religion that you speak of? Why did Jefferson view Muslims as the enemy? I am asking, because I think you just made that up. As in you fabricated it out of thin air.

Google is really your friend and it is VERY easy to use. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_Wars)

[aboutime]

FYI.....I just found and downloaded a free .pdf copy of this book at:

http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/ebooks/christian-life-and-character-of-the-civil-institutions-of-the-united-states-of-america

for anyone interested. Only thing is....the ebook is only 832 pages (not 1,000).

Thanks for posting this! (and yeah, I know, I know....it's an old thread....but still very helpful/useful).


DLT. I'd be willing to bet. Better than fifty percent of the children in todays schools, their teachers, and even college students have NO IDEA what the Federalist Papers are, nor have they ever heard of them. And, I should also include a larger percentage of Wannabe Adults who complain when they are asked for a PHOTO ID.

[puma237]

FYI.....I just found and downloaded a free .pdf copy of this book at:

http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/ebooks/christian-life-and-character-of-the-civil-institutions-of-the-united-states-of-america

for anyone interested. Only thing is....the ebook is only 832 pages (not 1,000).

Thanks for posting this! (and yeah, I know, I know....it's an old thread....but still very helpful/useful).

you are not offering as proof that the usa was founded on Christianity, a book written by a Christian zealot.......are you?

[glockmail]

FYI.....I just found and downloaded a free .pdf copy of this book at:

http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/ebooks/christian-life-and-character-of-the-civil-institutions-of-the-united-states-of-america

for anyone interested. Only thing is....the ebook is only 832 pages (not 1,000).

Thanks for posting this! (and yeah, I know, I know....it's an old thread....but still very helpful/useful).

Thanks, but I have a leather bound version in my library.

[aboutime]

you are not offering as proof that the usa was founded on Christianity, a book written by a Christian zealot.......are you?


puma. Not too obvious how much you seem to hate everything about this nation. When is your next Athiest meeting?

[puma237]

puma. Not too obvious how much you seem to hate everything about this nation. When is your next Athiest meeting?

i ask one simple question, and from it you deduce that i am an atheist who hates everything about the usa.

other than the fact that you are woefully wrong on both counts, that was just freaking brilliant Sherlock.

[aboutime]

i ask one simple question, and from it you deduce that i am an atheist who hates everything about the usa.

other than the fact that you are woefully wrong on both counts, that was just freaking brilliant Sherlock.


Okay. Then you won't mind explaining your need to use the Christian Zealot line?