We Cry Over the Death of Cecil the Lion, But Shrug Off Planned Parenthood?

[tailfins]

We Cry Over the Death of Cecil the Lion, But Shrug Off Planned Parenthood?
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2015/07/29/we_cry_over_the_death_of_cecil_the_lion_but_shrug_ off_planned_parenthood

[red state]

I haven't followed this to any great extent but believe the dentist was probably conducting himself in a less than admirable way. I'm not, however, going to label him "this or that" without definite proof (unlike many in the media). I heard one account where ALL hunters were lumped in (regardless of fact and without sane reasoning). I will no longer support that commentator or apply respect to any such ignorant, hateful bias.

It could be that the high paying world traveling hunter is victim of shady guides but I will say this; the lion was NOT on preserve land and was legally "game" on the ground where the dentist was hunting. Lions seem to have a fantastic olfactory and was merely seeking the scent that the guides were using to draw in these fantastic predator/scavengers. If they weren't purposefully getting as close as they can, with the intent of luring this famous lion exclusively, then they were doing NOTHING wrong (other than not preparing for a night hunt, causing them the archer to place a very bad shot.

Hunters do much good all around the world and, as much as I hate to admit it, TEXAS leads in this by actually preserving species that are more abundant than the animal's nation/continent of origin.

PS: I don't listen to Rush....I'm more in tune with Lars Larson; Mark Levine is OK *(when not spouting off about how GREAT that SOB Lincoln was).

[red state]

We Cry Over the Death of Cecil the Lion, But Shrug Off Planned Parenthood?

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2015/07/29/we_cry_over_the_death_of_cecil_the_lion_but_shrug_ off_planned_parenthood

I agree with you, however about planned parenthood......we need to get our priorities RIGHT.

As for hunting lions.....I see that Rush, in ways, has it all wrong. Myself, I would have always wanted to go after the big cats with a archery equipment but I REFUSE to do so under the supervision or "PAYOFF" to guides as most times this is under less than "sportsman-like" conditions. I've seen well known hunters harvest elephants who became problematic and have even witnessed hunters who helped take out man-eating tigers that developed a preference for "Indian Cuisine". As for the photos of the dentist......he's successfully taken many big game animals and if done so under my preferred fair chase......then my hat is off to him. One can't make a perfect shot all of the time but I would like to learn more about the facts in this case and hopefully we'll get an un-biased account that we're not going to get from RUSH or that SOB that I mentioned earlier.

[bullypulpit]

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/unspinning-the-planned-parenthood-video/

Not that the facts matter to most of the right wing-nut chuckleheads posting here. And citing Rush Limbaugh as a source on anything is like citing pond scum as a source on quantum mechanics.

[red state]

Here are some REAL facts from average, everyday AMERICANS:

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=A0LEVzHqGrpVW7UArFVXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTByN XM5bzY5BGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMzBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--?qid=20090128121905AAbzGsa&p=abortion%20is%20murder

That which THEY destroy is NOT a chicken embryo or an untitled "mass".....it is, like most of us, a developing HUMAN being. The sad part is; most liberal scum stopped developing LONG ago (which is why they are dead inside and strive to spread their hatred and death to all of us at every turn.

[Gunny]

We Cry Over the Death of Cecil the Lion, But Shrug Off Planned Parenthood?


http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2015/07/29/we_cry_over_the_death_of_cecil_the_lion_but_shrug_ off_planned_parenthood

Wonder how many threads we got on this? Melissa Milano would.

[Gunny]

I haven't followed this to any great extent but believe the dentist was probably conducting himself in a less than admirable way. I'm not, however, going to label him "this or that" without definite proof (unlike many in the media). I heard one account where ALL hunters were lumped in (regardless of fact and without sane reasoning). I will no longer support that commentator or apply respect to any such ignorant, hateful bias.

It could be that the high paying world traveling hunter is victim of shady guides but I will say this; the lion was NOT on preserve land and was legally "game" on the ground where the dentist was hunting. Lions seem to have a fantastic olfactory and was merely seeking the scent that the guides were using to draw in these fantastic predator/scavengers. If they weren't purposefully getting as close as they can, with the intent of luring this famous lion exclusively, then they were doing NOTHING wrong (other than not preparing for a night hunt, causing them the archer to place a very bad shot.

Hunters do much good all around the world and, as much as I hate to admit it, TEXAS leads in this by actually preserving species that are more abundant than the animal's nation/continent of origin.

PS: I don't listen to Rush....I'm more in tune with Lars Larson; Mark Levine is OK *(when not spouting off about how GREAT that SOB Lincoln was).

I was going to say that. The Texas Deerhunters Association controls most of the deer in Texas. In the past they have over-populated and almost wiped themselves out by "over-grazing".

However, Africa has no such controlling force and their animals have been over-hunted for a century.

[Gunny]

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/unspinning-the-planned-parenthood-video/

Not that the facts matter to most of the right wing-nut chuckleheads posting here. And citing Rush Limbaugh as a source on anything is like citing pond scum as a source on quantum mechanics.

The facts haven't mattered to you for at least the last 13 years. Why should you start now?

[Gunny]

Here are some REAL facts from average, everyday AMERICANS:

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=A0LEVzHqGrpVW7UArFVXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTByN XM5bzY5BGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMzBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--?qid=20090128121905AAbzGsa&p=abortion%20is%20murder

That which THEY destroy is NOT a chicken embryo or an untitled "mass".....it is, like most of us, a developing HUMAN being. The sad part is; most liberal scum stopped developing LONG ago (which is why they are dead inside and strive to spread their hatred and death to all of us at every turn.

If you don't know bullypulpit, he's generally full of it on every topic.

[jimnyc]

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/unspinning-the-planned-parenthood-video/

Not that the facts matter to most of the right wing-nut chuckleheads posting here. And citing Rush Limbaugh as a source on anything is like citing pond scum as a source on quantum mechanics.

How about them executive orders, bullydisappearwhenaskedquestions?

You pop in here and there to toss out crap like this, like "gotchas", but don't seem to want to return to reply to replies. I call that "hit and run". So how does fact check work for the worst president ever, and the executive orders you whined about for about 8 years? I looked, can't find a single post from you condemning such, not one. Are you a hypocrite, bully? Just asking!!

[jimnyc]

This "hunter" is no hunter. Baiting and luring a lion from a safe spot, hitting lights on him and killing him is not hunting. He did this for "sport", and even then it was no sport. He might as well have went target shooting and just bought a lion head.

His business is down for now, as is his phone, FB account and business website. I hope he completely goes out of business. There's a memorial growing in front of his business. Folks are leaving a bunch of stuffed lions. Also a few statements to the scumbag.

http://i.imgur.com/9GUd5AM.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/XgWjdzw.jpg

[Gunny]

How about them executive orders, bullydisappearwhenaskedquestions?

You pop in here and there to toss out crap like this, like "gotchas", but don't seem to want to return to reply to replies. I call that "hit and run". So how does fact check work for the worst president ever, and the executive orders you whined about for about 8 years? I looked, can't find a single post from you condemning such, not one. Are you a hypocrite, bully? Just asking!!

He DID used to whine about that, didn't he? :laugh:

[jimnyc]

He DID used to whine about that, didn't he? :laugh:

Yes. He. Did.!

He's as transparent as "the most transparent administration ever".

[Gunny]

This "hunter" is no hunter. Baiting and luring a lion from a safe spot, hitting lights on him and killing him is not hunting. He did this for "sport", and even then it was no sport. He might as well have went target shooting and just bought a lion head.

His business is down for now, as is his phone, FB account and business website. I hope he completely goes out of business. There's a memorial growing in front of his business. Folks are leaving a bunch of stuffed lions. Also a few statements to the scumbag.

http://i.imgur.com/9GUd5AM.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/XgWjdzw.jpg

I think you're disagreeing with those that agree with you. The point whoever up there was making is dumbass "Save the Whales" people can't differentiate between a hunter and poacher. They're lumping them all into the same category. As usual, without any actual facts. They caught the two guides and the truth will come out.

Not to mention the leader of that counttry is the biggest poacher of them all.

I don't hunt. I know how to. I imagine hunting animals isn't much different than humans.

I DO take issue with THIS being the headline of the day today, while Planned Parenthood is ignored.

[bullypulpit]

The facts haven't mattered to you for at least the last 13 years. Why should you start now?

The facts have always mattered....It's what I deal in professionally as a critical care nurse. But then to the RWN mind, facts have a notoriously librul bias. Especially when they contradict the fragile tissue of falsehoods, mean-spiritedness, ignorance, and confabulation that is the GOP/RWN world-view.

[bullypulpit]

Here are some REAL facts from average, everyday AMERICANS:

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=A0LEVzHqGrpVW7UArFVXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTByN XM5bzY5BGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMzBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--?qid=20090128121905AAbzGsa&p=abortion%20is%20murder

That which THEY destroy is NOT a chicken embryo or an untitled "mass".....it is, like most of us, a developing HUMAN being. The sad part is; most liberal scum stopped developing LONG ago (which is why they are dead inside and strive to spread their hatred and death to all of us at every turn.

Wow...care to throw some biological reality untainted by religious bafflegab into the conversation? No...? Didn't think so.

[Gunny]

The facts have always mattered....It's what I deal in professionally as a critical care nurse. But then to the RWN mind, facts have a notoriously librul bias. Especially when they contradict the fragile tissue of falsehoods, mean-spiritedness, ignorance, and confabulation that is the GOP/RWN world-view.

Not to you they haven't. You're so caught up in what you do you forgot your humanity. You've got no view. There's no right nor left wing to THAT. You like to blame the right when all the woes in the world are the result of the left, and ALWAYS have been, throughout the centuries.

Your front-runner is a chronic, habitual liar, but you are so programmed that "left is good, right is bad" you don't care. You'd have to think for yourself. Vote for Hillary the habitual liar. The capitalist that's against capitalists.

You harvest human bodyparts; yet, call them a clump of cells. So how can you justify abortion if they have human bodyparts? YOu get called liars and just run along and pretend it never happened and do it again. A clump of cells does NOT a human bodypart make.

Your precious front runner CLEARLY violated classified material protocol and you're just lucky the media is too stupid to know the right answer. Well, the left-wing MSM doesn't want to. It IS a violation of USC 17 to disclose classified material and/or send classified material on unsecure medium. Period.

Grow up.

[NightTrain]

Whoa, whoa, whoa!

From all the articles I've read, this was a legitimate hunt that the Dentist paid for and the guides knowingly baited that Lion off the preserve and onto 'fair game' territory. He didn't bait the Lion, his professional guides did.

After the kill, the hunter saw them trying to remove and destroy that radio collar and suddenly understood what went down and what kind of deep shit all of them were in.

Naturally, the bleeding hearts the world over went batshit insane over it and are mobbing the Dentist because he hunted a big game animal, making him evil, and therefor knew the hunt was illegal. He paid those guides big money to ensure the rules were followed and was betrayed by their incompetence and/or disregard for following the rules (such as they are) in that part of Africa.

He had a valid license to kill a Lion and his only crime was trusting professional licensed guides to do their job correctly, and that's not his fault that they didn't adhere to the rules and then tried to cover it up.

[AllieBaba]

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/unspinning-the-planned-parenthood-video/

Not that the facts matter to most of the right wing-nut chuckleheads posting here. And citing Rush Limbaugh as a source on anything is like citing pond scum as a source on quantum mechanics.

It's an opinion. Like yours, but with more authority. We know that. Lefties can't differentiate fact from fiction, or editorials from true journalism. It's because you accept propaganda in place of education. It has destroyed your ability to discern reality from make believe.

[Gunny]

Whoa, whoa, whoa!

From all the articles I've read, this was a legitimate hunt that the Dentist paid for and the guides knowingly baited that Lion off the preserve and onto 'fair game' territory. He didn't bait the Lion, his professional guides did.

After the kill, the hunter saw them trying to remove and destroy that radio collar and suddenly understood what went down and what kind of deep shit all of them were in.

Naturally, the bleeding hearts the world over went batshit insane over it and are mobbing the Dentist because he hunted a big game animal, making him evil, and therefor knew the hunt was illegal. He paid those guides big money to ensure the rules were followed and was betrayed by their incompetence and/or disregard for following the rules (such as they are) in that part of Africa.

He had a valid license to kill a Lion and his only crime was trusting professional licensed guides to do their job correctly, and that's not his fault that they didn't adhere to the rules and then tried to cover it up.

Like I said, the truth will come out (maybe). One person can keep a secret. Three can't. If the guides are rolling around in a jeep with meat on it to lure the lion out, I'm not sure how he's going to say he didn't know.

He's also got being busting for poaching a black bear on his record. That's a hit to his benefit of doubt.

My biggest thing I stated before. Obama's giving Iran nukes. Planned Parenthood is selling bodyparts. There are enough GOP contenders to field a football team. And Cecil the Lion headlines the news.

Something wrong with this place; more exactly, about 1/3 the people in it.

[red state]

If you don't know bullypulpit, he's generally full of it on every topic.

Yeah, Gunny, I kinda figured that out about this bullybull$#!T from the very first post I'd ever seen he/she deliver (which was the lie and attack addressed to me within this thread) . Another fact-less troll...


Even if the lion traveled several miles (and OFF of the reserve) the fact-less libs would still crucify this hunter. What will be interesting is if they spend millions of dollars on a fence to protect lions YET we Americans allow all kinds of murderous, raping, thieving, drug-pushing, slavery scum and 'ruggers' across our border with no intention of providing a protective barrier between US and THEM. Wow! this thread has many off-shoots to it from abortion to borders.........GREAT THREAD!!!!

[Gunny]

Yeah, Gunny, I kinda figured that out about this bullybull$#!T from the very first post I'd ever seen he/she deliver (which was the lie and attack addressed to me within this thread) . Another fact-less troll...


Even if the lion traveled several miles (and OFF of the reserve) the fact-less libs would still crucify this hunter. What will be interesting is if they spend millions of dollars on a fence to protect lions YET we Americans allow all kinds of murderous, raping, thieving, drug-pushing, slavery scum and 'ruggers' across our border with no intention of providing a protective barrier between US and THEM. Wow! this thread has many off-shoots to it from abortion to borders.........GREAT THREAD!!!!

Don't underestimate him. He IS intelligent. He just thinks he's the only one that understands trauma and how he feels. Classic symptom.

[jimnyc]

The facts have always mattered....It's what I deal in professionally as a critical care nurse. But then to the RWN mind, facts have a notoriously librul bias. Especially when they contradict the fragile tissue of falsehoods, mean-spiritedness, ignorance, and confabulation that is the GOP/RWN world-view.

No they don't, to you. I've asked you about the executive orders like 500x now, and you keep ignoring it. I don't blame you, as you want to hide your hypocrisy. Now go run again, or will you come back and make more excuses and lies?

[jimnyc]

Whoa, whoa, whoa!

From all the articles I've read, this was a legitimate hunt that the Dentist paid for and the guides knowingly baited that Lion off the preserve and onto 'fair game' territory. He didn't bait the Lion, his professional guides did.

How does a "real" hunter see a baited vehicle as such, and not realize he's target shooting instead of hunting?

[Gunny]

No they don't, to you. I've asked you about the executive orders like 500x now, and you keep ignoring it. I don't blame you, as you want to hide your hypocrisy. Now go run again, or will you come back and make more excuses and lies?

I think they are unconstitutional and give the executive branch more power than the Constitution does. (I have coffee :) )

[jimnyc]

Not a hunter myself and not sure of regulations and such... but isn't baiting in general illegal?

[NightTrain]

Don't underestimate him. He IS intelligent. He just thinks he's the only one that understands trauma and how he feels. Classic symptom.

I'm not so sure. Bullyboy is a rabid moonbat, and that speaks volumes as to his intelligence level. He's remarkably silent about Bambam's numerous failings as Prez, where he was shamelessly falling all over himself to stroke the messiah in the runup to the elections... Chris Matthews would have blushed with Bully's behavior.


I read that the baiting WAS legal, just the act of deliberately targeting that particular Lion off the preserve and then trying to destroy the radio collar was illegal... and the attempted coverup, which it doesn't appear the Dentist was involved in. And the hunter allegedly didn't know what they were up to, Cecil was a magnificent specimen that the guides knew about of course.

Poaching... I've done a lot of that. But never for sport, it was always for food.



But I do agree wholeheartedly that the animals at Planned Parenthood warrant focused scrutiny from every quarter. I think as the investigations continue we'll see a very large, profitable business uncovered in the abortion baby-part-selling industry, which is why Planned Parenthood always has a ton of money to throw at lobbyists and advertising, not to mention six-figure salaries for their murderous 'doctors'.

They damn sure don't need to be subsidized with taxpayer money.

[Gunny]

Not a hunter myself and not sure of regulations and such... but isn't baiting in general illegal?

Depends on where you are. Different states have different rules. You can bait deer in Texas. I always called it bushwhacking and was quite outspoken about it.

[red state]

Don't underestimate him. He IS intelligent. He just thinks he's the only one that understands trauma and how he feels. Classic symptom.

Understand that perfectly.....never described him as unintelligent......just FACT-LESS (there is a difference) and I've found that those with a capacity and talent for being a BULL$#!Ter have to be intelligent just to keep up with the lies upon lies and deceptive/deviation from the topic.

Like a new member that I will not mention......they spout off with long attacks/accusations but refuse to answer other poster's good points, run and hide or go in ATTACK mode (as if their simply telling us they are intelligent, CORRECT and an authority on any given subject) makes it so. It doesn't and that is a big problem I had with [A Really Boring Oaf] and the crap that spewed from jafar. I'm glad both are gone and I look forward to much less or NO comments from the others mentioned.

Noir can get on your nerves from time to time but he is still one of the few libs that I can actually get along with....not drink a beer with or socialize in any way but I can throw ideas at him and he at me with a fair amount of civility without arrogance or BULL$#!T (to an extent on his part) HA!!!

[NightTrain]

Not a hunter myself and not sure of regulations and such... but isn't baiting in general illegal?

It's legal.

Hunters bait deer in Wisconsin, hunters bait bear in Alaska, and they bait in Africa... it's used worldwide, and one of the reasons why we're the apex predator - we use their behavior against them. Baiting has been used as a tactic since the caveman days, I'm sure. It's a lot more effective than crashing around in the brush where the hunter may end up being hunted.

Of course, in some areas (and sometimes during specific times) baiting is not legal, and there's always a controversy when an adjacent area is used to lure the animal off the protected area. Would the animal have come off the protected area on his own? Who knows?

Yeah, he got busted lying about the Black Bear. People lie to cops, and I freely admit that I have lied to cops to get out of a bind. It looks like he got busted and learned his lesson. I know many, many hunters that have been in the same predicament, especially judging whether a moose has a 50" antler spread or a 49" antler spread at 300 yards. One inch will get you into one hell of a lot of trouble with Fish & Game and they don't care if it was an honest mistake.

[AllieBaba]

I don't know why y'all are debating whether or not killing Cecil is bad..the point of the OP is that it's a disgusting commentary on our allegedly free press that Cecil outrages them more than Planned Parenthood ghouls slicing up pregnant women in order to harvest their babies' organs. In fact, a judge has passed an injunction preventing the group who obtained those films (and there are more) from publicizing them until after Aug. 16 or something... "The dissection scene is grisly, to say the least. The same organization that insists it only removes “clumps of cells” has its technician pushing a fetal brain around the pie plate, while pointing out the child’s kidneys, adrenal glands, stomach, heart, and eyeballs. This came from a first-trimester fetus, a stage at which the abortion industry insists that its service has no moral consequences." http://hotair.com/archives/2015/07/30/new-planned-parenthood-video-more-price-haggling-admissions-of-procedure-changes-for-harvesting/

[AllieBaba]

"... employees at StemExpress (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/stemexpress/), a for-profit company, tried to maximize the financial benefit of each fetus by obtaining the most profitable organs.“The harder and more valuable the tissue, the more money you get,” Ms. O’Donnell said. “So if you can somehow procure a brain or a heart, you’re going to get more money than just chorionic villi or umbilical cord. That’s basically what it is. So I guess that’s an incentive to try and get the hard stuff.”
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/29/planned-parenthood-judge-blocks-pro-life-group-rel/ The press, instead of following this story, is covering it up...while plastering outraged articles about CECIL, an AFRICAN LION on another continent, all over the place. Apparently our free press believes that shooting a trophy is a bigger crime than putting women in danger in order to kill their babies, and harvest their organs.

[Gunny]

Understand that perfectly.....never described him as unintelligent......just FACT-LESS (there is a difference) and I've found that those with a capacity and talent for being a BULL$#!Ter have to be intelligent just to keep up with the lies upon lies and deceptive/deviation from the topic.

Like a new member that I will not mention......they spout off with long attacks/accusations but refuse to answer other poster's good points, run and hide or go in ATTACK mode (as if their simply telling us they are intelligent, CORRECT and an authority on any given subject) makes it so. It doesn't and that is a big problem I had with [A Really Boring Oaf] and the crap that spewed from jafar. I'm glad both are gone and I look forward to much less or NO comments from the others mentioned.

Noir can get on your nerves from time to time but he is still one of the few libs that I can actually get along with....not drink a beer with or socialize in any way but I can throw ideas at him and he at me with a fair amount of civility without arrogance or BULL$#!T (to an extent on his part) HA!!!

Not sure who you are talking about. When I said I was allergic to bee stings I meant A-L-L-E-R-G-I-C. When my eyes are so swollen I can see through slits, barely, I'm not going to sit here and stare at a screen.

Seems there is more than one person I know and loathe that has appeared here in that time.

[jimnyc]

It's legal.

Hunters bait deer in Wisconsin, hunters bait bear in Alaska, and they bait in Africa... it's used worldwide, and one of the reasons why we're the apex predator - we use their behavior against them. Baiting has been used as a tactic since the caveman days, I'm sure. It's a lot more effective than crashing around in the brush where the hunter may end up being hunted.

Of course, in some areas (and sometimes during specific times) baiting is not legal, and there's always a controversy when an adjacent area is used to lure the animal off the protected area. Would the animal have come off the protected area on his own? Who knows?

Yeah, he got busted lying about the Black Bear. People lie to cops, and I freely admit that I have lied to cops to get out of a bind. It looks like he got busted and learned his lesson. I know many, many hunters that have been in the same predicament, especially judging whether a moose has a 50" antler spread or a 49" antler spread at 300 yards. One inch will get you into one hell of a lot of trouble with Fish & Game and they don't care if it was an honest mistake.

I think, especially given his recent troubles, he was fully aware of what he was doing. This guy is a prick. He also was basically busted for sexual assault, paying off a former employee of his. I personally don't like "sport hunting" and find it reprehensible. While I don't hunt for food and such, and never will, I would never condemn anyone else for doing so. I don't take issue with that. And even if he didn't know, taking out such an animal in the way he did - reminds me of the hunters who go places to "hunt", while the owners enclose the animal in a tiny area for them, basically guaranteeing a kill. Some want just to kill, or just a head, and aren't hunting in the slightest bit, IMO.

I've also seen a few folks go "fishing" at a damn hatchery, and then claim they fished and caught a whopper!! Hell, I can stick my hand in the water and come up with a whopper at some of those places!

IMO, it all depends on the reason, and how the kill is made. I don't mind folks hunting for deer to eat, but I WOULD mind if they used means to push them into a certain area and then shot them with long range snipers! :)

[Gunny]

I think, especially given his recent troubles, he was fully aware of what he was doing. This guy is a prick. He also was basically busted for sexual assault, paying off a former employee of his. I personally don't like "sport hunting" and find it reprehensible. While I don't hunt for food and such, and never will, I would never condemn anyone else for doing so. I don't take issue with that. And even if he didn't know, taking out such an animal in the way he did - reminds me of the hunters who go places to "hunt", while the owners enclose the animal in a tiny area for them, basically guaranteeing a kill. Some want just to kill, or just a head, and aren't hunting in the slightest bit, IMO.

I've also seen a few folks go "fishing" at a damn hatchery, and then claim they fished and caught a whopper!! Hell, I can stick my hand in the water and come up with a whopper at some of those places!

IMO, it all depends on the reason, and how the kill is made. I don't mind folks hunting for deer to eat, but I WOULD mind if they used means to push them into a certain area and then shot them with long range snipers! :)

Well, if you were watching the news this morning, his chickens have come home to roost. I don't think anyone was getting a check-up this morning what with that crowd he had outside his office.:laugh:

[NightTrain]

I think, especially given his recent troubles, he was fully aware of what he was doing. This guy is a prick.

Possibly. He could be the world's biggest prick. I don't know if he was truly unaware, and I don't think anyone knows at this point except him and his guides.

What I do see is a worldwide mob howling for his blood without knowing the details. Everyone is caught up in Lynch Mob Mode and circling with their pitchforks - and it's entirely possible that the blame for any illegal activities rests with his guides, but that fact doesn't seem to matter to anyone.


I've also seen a few folks go "fishing" at a damn hatchery, and then claim they fished and caught a whopper!! Hell, I can stick my hand in the water and come up with a whopper at some of those places!

Well... if they eat the fish, I really don't see an issue with that. Fish are food, and fish farming is a huge industry.


IMO, it all depends on the reason, and how the kill is made. I don't mind folks hunting for deer to eat, but I WOULD mind if they used means to push them into a certain area and then shot them with long range snipers! :)

You and I disagree on this point. IMO, if you are feeding your family, it is completely reasonable to kill a deer, moose, elk, boar, buffalo, etc., using any tactics necessary to achieve your goal of putting food on the table. Being 'fair' about it doesn't enter into the equation. The last thing on my mind when I'm hunting moose or slaughtering salmon is whether or not it's fair - of course it isn't. My intelligence and equipment ensure that the odds are grossly in my favor.

Don't get me wrong, sport hunting does not equate with subsistence. There are lots of rules regarding sport hunting, as there should be, especially when we're talking about animal populations that are in decline or even endangered. Last I heard, the natural Lion population has decreased steadily and it's silly to keep killing them.

IMO, the African countries shouldn't even be allowing Lions to be hunted - but they are, because they want the thousands of U.S. dollars that every hunter brings to the table with licenses, fees, taxes, etc. This guy is being crucified worldwide when the government that is allowing it in the first place skates.

[Gunny]

Possibly. He could be the world's biggest prick. I don't know if he was truly unaware, and I don't think anyone knows at this point except him and his guides.

What I do see is a worldwide mob howling for his blood without knowing the details. Everyone is caught up in Lynch Mob Mode and circling with their pitchforks - and it's entirely possible that the blame for any illegal activities rests with his guides, but that fact doesn't seem to matter to anyone.



Well... if they eat the fish, I really don't see an issue with that. Fish are food, and fish farming is a huge industry.



You and I disagree on this point. IMO, if you are feeding your family, it is completely reasonable to kill a deer, moose, elk, boar, buffalo, etc., using any tactics necessary to achieve your goal of putting food on the table. Being 'fair' about it doesn't enter into the equation. The last thing on my mind when I'm hunting moose or slaughtering salmon is whether or not it's fair - of course it isn't. My intelligence and equipment ensure that the odds are grossly in my favor.

Don't get me wrong, sport hunting does not equate with subsistence. There are lots of rules regarding sport hunting, as there should be, especially when we're talking about animal populations that are in decline or even endangered. Last I heard, the natural Lion population has decreased steadily and it's silly to keep killing them.

IMO, the African countries shouldn't even be allowing Lions to be hunted - but they are, because they want the thousands of U.S. dollars that every hunter brings to the table with licenses, fees, taxes, etc. This guy is being crucified worldwide when the government that is allowing it in the first place skates.

No. If it's about survival, my family gets fed.

Here's where I see a difference .... Americans/Euro's don't go to Africa to feed their families. They go to collect a trophy. That's wrong, IMO.

The not-so-funny yet funny thing about this is if everyone put in this position has spent all their time protesting hunters yet can't hunt, has to ever provide, they're screwed.

What the Hell is "slaughtering salmon'?

There is such a thing as using our resources responsibly. I prefer to hunt in the beef section at the supermarket. Lot easier. Since I don't think if the shit hits the fan I'm going to be allotted a herd of cattle, I know how to track and hunt because everyone needs to eat.

Regardless this idiot's motive, it amounts to trophy hunting and I DON'T agree with THAT,

[NightTrain]

No. If it's about survival, my family gets fed.

Here's where I see a difference .... Americans/Euro's don't go to Africa to feed their families. They go to collect a trophy. That's wrong, IMO.

The not-so-funny yet funny thing about this is if everyone put in this position has spent all their time protesting hunters yet can't hunt, has to ever provide, they're screwed.


There is such a thing as using our resources responsibly. I prefer to hunt in the beef section at the supermarket. Lot easier. Since I don't think if the shit hits the fan I'm going to be allotted a herd of cattle, I know how to track and hunt because everyone needs to eat.

Regardless this idiot's motive, it amounts to trophy hunting and I DON'T agree with THAT,

I buy a lot of meat at the grocery store, as well. It is a lot more convenient, but there's a lot to be said for moose meat that is naturally almost 100% lean and there aren't any hormones or other crap in it that all our foodstuffs seem to have these days.

And just to be clear, I don't get my jollies over killing animals - the reverse is true. I truly don't like taking the life of an animal, but it is the natural order of things.

I have never engaged in sport hunting, but it's a big business here. People come here from all over the world to kill a bear, and we have a shitload of those. Too many, in some areas, and the State keeps close tabs on what the population is doing and will shut down hunting if it appears that the population isn't sustaining the take.


What the Hell is "slaughtering salmon'?

This :

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7534&stc=1

I won't go into details about my tactics when I'm after salmon, but rest assured it is not fair. They are a food and it's my job on these missions to get as many as I can. No, I don't use explosives, lol.

[AllieBaba]

I've never understood the whole "I don't hunt for trophies" snobbishness. If you're a good hunter, why not give the lesser animals a chance, and pit your skills against an animal that has some chance of winning? Why would you choose a small animal over a large one..even if you are in it just for the meat. And what's wrong with being proud of a trophy? Dead is dead for the animals. I don't get the deification of animals. I understand if they're owned by somebody and have been granted protection...then it's scummy to sneak in and kill them. But as far as the sheer snobbishness of "I just shoot the first thing I see and I think trophy hunters are assholes!"..I don't get it.

[red state]

Hunters (trophy or otherwise) feed many in America and around the world. I agree, AB. And NT is also SPOT ON in that baiting is a SMART tactic and that is in scenting a beaver trap, barrelling for bear, or hunting a well used waterhole, corn field or stand of White Oak Acorn forests. It is predicting what the animal is going to do and BE THERE when it happens.

Now, getting back to the main theme of the author......As I've said a few pages ago or so, it is a sad day when we devote more time, attention and care to a lion who was NOT on the preservation designated for it and went gallivanting around looking for a scent that it may or may not have picked up on for miles. Like our own border..........build a freakin' fence if you want him SAFE and build our fence here in the USA if you want US safe.

Abortion is wrong and there's no logical way around that FACT.

[red state]

As for trophy hunting being wrong....................................that's WRONG. I'm a trophy hunter who seeks to continue an outstanding show room but I also utilize as much of that trophy animal as I can. In fact, I get more usefulness out of a trophy animal. PERIOD. Native Americans have always been this way and have been proud of an exceptionally antlered or horned animal.....often times the more dangerous as well as a means of manhood, efficiency and wealth.

[red state]

I buy a lot of meat at the grocery store, as well. It is a lot more convenient, but there's a lot to be said for moose meat that is naturally almost 100% lean and there aren't any hormones or other crap in it that all our foodstuffs seem to have these days.

And just to be clear, I don't get my jollies over killing animals - the reverse is true. I truly don't like taking the life of an animal, but it is the natural order of things.

I have never engaged in sport hunting, but it's a big business here. People come here from all over the world to kill a bear, and we have a shitload of those. Too many, in some areas, and the State keeps close tabs on what the population is doing and will shut down hunting if it appears that the population isn't sustaining the take.



This :

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7534&stc=1

I won't go into details about my tactics when I'm after salmon, but rest assured it is not fair. They are a food and it's my job on these missions to get as many as I can. No, I don't use explosives, lol.

GREAT catch.....and EXCELLENT table decoration. Your son and mine seem to be PROs.

[AllieBaba]

If it's about food and all that, then I'd think being effective and getting big stuff would be a good thing. It always was for us. Unless we were poaching (subsistence hunting when I was growing up). Then we went for small, close to home.

[red state]

If it's about food and all that, then I'd think being effective and getting big stuff would be a good thing. It always was for us. Unless we were poaching (subsistence hunting when I was growing up). Then we went for small, close to home.


EXACTLY!

I utilized this:
http://www.debatepolicy.com/image.php?u=2280&dateline=1373571182&type=profile
By flowering and frying the backstraps, BBQing & roasting the shoulders and jerk-E-Fying the was wasn't stew/chilli meat. I hang my hat on the antlers and have even used the sinew for bows (I make my own bows). Turkey are mounted but I also use the feathers for my arrows. Nothing but the guts go to waste but they can also be used (I just don't use that part). Heck, you can even make bows out of the horns/antlers and I've even made some outstanding archery tabs, rugs, coats and shoes out of the hide.

What I enjoy about trophy hunting is giving the youth I take hunting an ultimate goal cuz these ole boys don't get this old for no reason.....not with everybody and his momma shooting anything that moves here in 'good ole boy' country. HA!!!

[bullypulpit]

Not to you they haven't. You're so caught up in what you do you forgot your humanity. You've got no view. There's no right nor left wing to THAT. You like to blame the right when all the woes in the world are the result of the left, and ALWAYS have been, throughout the centuries.

Your front-runner is a chronic, habitual liar, but you are so programmed that "left is good, right is bad" you don't care. You'd have to think for yourself. Vote for Hillary the habitual liar. The capitalist that's against capitalists.

You harvest human bodyparts; yet, call them a clump of cells. So how can you justify abortion if they have human bodyparts? YOu get called liars and just run along and pretend it never happened and do it again. A clump of cells does NOT a human bodypart make.

Your precious front runner CLEARLY violated classified material protocol and you're just lucky the media is too stupid to know the right answer. Well, the left-wing MSM doesn't want to. It IS a violation of USC 17 to disclose classified material and/or send classified material on unsecure medium. Period.

Grow up.

Paragraphs 1 and 3 of your response are non sequiturs, a poor effort at distracting from the lack of meaningful content in paragraph 2.
Facts, they stand on their own, unlike the not even half-baked confabulation being thrown up by the right wing-nut noise machine.
These are the facts...
http://launch.newsinc.com/share.html?trackingGroup=69016&siteSection=csmonitor_nws_us_sty_pp&videoId=29463096


(http://launch.newsinc.com/share.html?trackingGroup=69016&siteSection=csmonitor_nws_us_sty_pp&videoId=29463096)

[Solo]

I buy a lot of meat at the grocery store, as well. It is a lot more convenient, but there's a lot to be said for moose meat that is naturally almost 100% lean and there aren't any hormones or other crap in it that all our foodstuffs seem to have these days.

And just to be clear, I don't get my jollies over killing animals - the reverse is true. I truly don't like taking the life of an animal, but it is the natural order of things.

I have never engaged in sport hunting, but it's a big business here. People come here from all over the world to kill a bear, and we have a shitload of those. Too many, in some areas, and the State keeps close tabs on what the population is doing and will shut down hunting if it appears that the population isn't sustaining the take.



This :

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7534&stc=1

I won't go into details about my tactics when I'm after salmon, but rest assured it is not fair. They are a food and it's my job on these missions to get as many as I can. No, I don't use explosives, lol.


Food and killing cecil are two dramatically different things.

Big game hunters arent hunters, they are privledged rich guys that pay for guides to find something for them to kill and they hire backup hunters to kill it for them if they miss and to protect them. They didnt eat cecil, they want to stuff him so they can say SEE WHAT I DID.

Putting planned parenthood in the same category is ludicrous you can vilify both but not in the same breath.

[Gunny]

I've never understood the whole "I don't hunt for trophies" snobbishness. If you're a good hunter, why not give the lesser animals a chance, and pit your skills against an animal that has some chance of winning? Why would you choose a small animal over a large one..even if you are in it just for the meat. And what's wrong with being proud of a trophy? Dead is dead for the animals. I don't get the deification of animals. I understand if they're owned by somebody and have been granted protection...then it's scummy to sneak in and kill them. But as far as the sheer snobbishness of "I just shoot the first thing I see and I think trophy hunters are assholes!"..I don't get it.

Because trophy hunters tend to waste animals for the sake of a head on the wall. It's not snobbishness. Trophy hunters are the egotistical snobs. People who hunt to eat don't need a "wall of fame".

[NightTrain]

Food and killing cecil are two dramatically different things.

They are the exact same thing : Hunting, but for different reasons.


Big game hunters arent hunters, they are privledged rich guys that pay for guides to find something for them to kill and they hire backup hunters to kill it for them if they miss and to protect them. They didnt eat cecil, they want to stuff him so they can say SEE WHAT I DID.

No. A moose is considered big game, and so is a bear. I think what you mean is a trophy hunter, and you're painting with a very large brush there. If I go out and nail a 9.5' Grizzly like I did when I was 15, then I'm wrong for doing so? There weren't any guides or hired backup when it happened, either.


Putting planned parenthood in the same category is ludicrous you can vilify both but not in the same breath.

I think the point was this : People the world over lost their minds in outrage over a lion getting killed, but are remarkably silent about videos detailing how PP kills human babies by the MILLIONS in different ways in order to sell their parts.

[Gunny]

They are the exact same thing : Hunting, but for different reasons.



No. A moose is considered big game, and so is a bear. I think what you mean is a trophy hunter, and you're painting with a very large brush there. If I go out and nail a 9.5' Grizzly like I did when I was 15, then I'm wrong for doing so? There weren't any guides or hired backup when it happened, either.



I think the point was this : People the world over lost their minds in outrage over a lion getting killed, but are remarkably silent about videos detailing how PP kills human babies by the MILLIONS in different ways in order to sell their parts.

:clap:

[AllieBaba]

Because trophy hunters tend to waste animals for the sake of a head on the wall. It's not snobbishness. Trophy hunters are the egotistical snobs. People who hunt to eat don't need a "wall of fame".

I've known many non trophy hunters who are egotistical, wasteful pigs as well. It is snobbishness.

[Gunny]

I've known many non trophy hunters who are egotistical, wasteful pigs as well. It is snobbishness.

Nope. As usual, you are wrong. It isn't snobbish to see the pointlessness to wasting an animal for a trophy. It's humane, and common sense.

Reminds me of dickhead 2ndLts that don't care who they have to kill or get killed to get a stupid medal.

[Perianne]

I think hunting for sustenance of life is 100% acceptable. Hunting solely to have a trophy is unacceptable. Those animals want to live just like we do. To shoot them solely for the thrill of the kill is pure evil, IMO. In fact, if you get a thrill out of the killing then one needs to take a deep look inside.

[jimnyc]

If I drive over a particular area, and drop a bomb, and pickup the carcasses of say like 5 dead lions - was I hunting? Does it make a difference if I eat them or not?

[jimnyc]

It's not necessarily the "trophy hunting" that irks me, while it does. It's HOW they get their trophies. I don't call that "hunting". Might as well just electrify an entire field, wait for animals to walk across a square mile area, and then hit a button and electrocute them and collect your prize.

Animals will tend to get lazy if in a zoo, or other protected areas. Imagine going to a zoo, opening a gate, tossing some meat about 50 yards over, and shooting a lion when he comes out to get it? Would that be hunting? (never mind laws for a moment)

I think it matters, where, and how. And it matters where the animal was. For example, dropping my line in my fish tank and pulling one up I wouldn't call "fishing" really either.

[Gunny]

It's not necessarily the "trophy hunting" that irks me, while it does. It's HOW they get their trophies. I don't call that "hunting". Might as well just electrify an entire field, wait for animals to walk across a square mile area, and then hit a button and electrocute them and collect your prize.

Animals will tend to get lazy if in a zoo, or other protected areas. Imagine going to a zoo, opening a gate, tossing some meat about 50 yards over, and shooting a lion when he comes out to get it? Would that be hunting? (never mind laws for a moment)

I think it matters, where, and how. And it matters where the animal was. For example, dropping my line in my fish tank and pulling one up I wouldn't call "fishing" really either.

Oh you should see Texas deer "hunters". They salt those critters right up to the tree stand, bust out a Remington Model 700 with a 30X scope and make that kill at 15 feet. If they don't trip over their Bud Light cans, they'll run down and pose for a photo.

[AllieBaba]

Oh you should see Texas deer "hunters". They salt those critters right up to the tree stand, bust out a Remington Model 700 with a 30X scope and make that kill at 15 feet. If they don't trip over their Bud Light cans, they'll run down and pose for a photo.

So what? Are deer endangered? Hi

[NightTrain]

Here's my Congressman, Don Young, in his office :

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7552&stc=1

IMO, if we had more Congressmen / Congresswomen with offices like this, I'm positive this country would NOT be in the condition it is today. Yep, he's a trophy hunter, and he's a damn fine Congressman.

[NightTrain]

If I drive over a particular area, and drop a bomb, and pickup the carcasses of say like 5 dead lions - was I hunting?

No. That wouldn't be hunting at all; that would be exterminating.


Does it make a difference if I eat them or not?

Personally, I'd try a lion steak. Why not? I don't think they're particularly good eating, because I can't remember ever hearing someone saying they'd eaten any. I'd try Elephant, Hippo and Giraffe, too.

[Gunny]

No. That wouldn't be hunting at all; that would be exterminating.



Personally, I'd try a lion steak. Why not? I don't think they're particularly good eating, because I can't remember ever hearing someone saying they'd eaten any. I'd try Elephant, Hippo and Giraffe, too.

Bushwhacking.

[Abbey Marie]

They are the exact same thing : Hunting, but for different reasons.



No. A moose is considered big game, and so is a bear. I think what you mean is a trophy hunter, and you're painting with a very large brush there. If I go out and nail a 9.5' Grizzly like I did when I was 15, then I'm wrong for doing so? There weren't any guides or hired backup when it happened, either.



I think the point was this : People the world over lost their minds in outrage over a lion getting killed, but are remarkably silent about videos detailing how PP kills human babies by the MILLIONS in different ways in order to sell their parts.

I don't think people's reactions to the Planned Parenthood bombshell are the problem. I think the media were silent, and most of the sheeple of this country let the media tell them what is right and wrong, and what to care about.

[Abbey Marie]

I doubt anyone on this board has been as vocally anti-abortion as I. Abortion is abhorrent, it is murder, and selling baby-parts is at the horrific level of Dr. Mengele. It is the tragedy of our lifetime.

But I have the capacity to care about more than one type of wrong. I wish everyone would just stop making everything so either/or. Either you don't give a damn about animals, or you couldn't possibly care about babies. Is that so? Wrong.

[Kathianne]

I doubt anyone on this board has been as vocally anti-abortion as I. Abortion is abhorrent, it is murder, and selling baby-parts is at the horrific level of Dr. Mengele. It is the tragedy of our lifetime.

But I have the capacity to care about more than one type of wrong. I wish everyone would just stop making everything so either/or. Either you don't give a damn about animals, or you couldn't possibly care about babies.

Is that so? Wrong.

I don't think I've posted on this thread before, but will say the discussion in my viewpoint has more to do with the reaction of the media on the killing of the lion, as opposed to the discussion on the abortion revelations. The reaction on the former was immediate and outrage was evident. As for the PP coverage, it was more of, 'making sausage isn't something you want to look at...'

[Drummond]

I think hunting for sustenance of life is 100% acceptable. Hunting solely to have a trophy is unacceptable. Those animals want to live just like we do. To shoot them solely for the thrill of the kill is pure evil, IMO. In fact, if you get a thrill out of the killing then one needs to take a deep look inside.:clap::clap::clap::clap:

[AllieBaba]

I doubt anyone on this board has been as vocally anti-abortion as I. Abortion is abhorrent, it is murder, and selling baby-parts is at the horrific level of Dr. Mengele. It is the tragedy of our lifetime.

But I have the capacity to care about more than one type of wrong. I wish everyone would just stop making everything so either/or. Either you don't give a damn about animals, or you couldn't possibly care about babies.

Is that so? Wrong.
I think the inherent problem is that many of the people who object so strenuously to the death of a lion in Africa are completely oblivious to the abuse and exploitation of women, and the murder of babies, here..and in fact, support those things. There's a terrible disconnect if people care more for animals than they do for people. And many of the hysterical anti-hunting loons will admit they actually DO care more for animals than people.

[NightTrain]

I don't think people's reactions to the Planned Parenthood bombshell are the problem. I think the media were silent, and most of the sheeple of this country let the media tell them what is right and wrong, and what to care about.

Well, I hope I'm wrong, but.... I really think that the damn Lion created more outrage among John Q. Public than the abortion tragedy that was captured on video.

There's something very wrong with a group of people that scream bloody murder over an animal's death and ignore the deaths of millions of babies.

Sure, the media is for the most part quiet about the PP scandal. But what about the hundreds of thousands of threats that the Dentist is getting right now? The protests? Where's the millions of tweets and emails?

It sure seems to me that the general public has their priorities very wrong, and if they really did care, I'm positive the media would fall all over themselves trying to get ahead of the story for the ratings.

[AllieBaba]

This "hunter" is no hunter. Baiting and luring a lion from a safe spot, hitting lights on him and killing him is not hunting. He did this for "sport", and even then it was no sport. He might as well have went target shooting and just bought a lion head.

His business is down for now, as is his phone, FB account and business website. I hope he completely goes out of business. There's a memorial growing in front of his business. Folks are leaving a bunch of stuffed lions. Also a few statements to the scumbag.

http://i.imgur.com/9GUd5AM.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/XgWjdzw.jpg
If he knew that what they were doing is illegal, that's one thing. If he didn't, that's another.

[Gunny]

Well, I hope I'm wrong, but.... I really think that the damn Lion created more outrage among John Q. Public than the abortion tragedy that was captured on video.

There's something very wrong with a group of people that scream bloody murder over an animal's death and ignore the deaths of millions of babies.

Sure, the media is for the most part quiet about the PP scandal. But what about the hundreds of thousands of threats that the Dentist is getting right now? The protests? Where's the millions of tweets and emails?

It sure seems to me that the general public has their priorities very wrong, and if they really did care, I'm positive the media would fall all over themselves trying to get ahead of the story for the ratings.

No shit.

[Gunny]

If I drive over a particular area, and drop a bomb, and pickup the carcasses of say like 5 dead lions - was I hunting? Does it make a difference if I eat them or not?

Yes. Wasting a life matters.

[Kathianne]

Fits me:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/421961/cecil-lion-planned-parenthood-g-k-chesterton


‘Wherever There Is Animal Worship There Is Human Sacrifice’

A lion and unborn children are in the news, competing for our sympathy.

The country can be divided into several camps:

those who recognize only the wrong done to the lion;

those who recognize only the wrong done to the unborn children;

those who think that the wrongs done to the lion and to the unborn children are more or less equivalent;

those whose stress is on the lion, though they’re not prepared to rationalize Planned Parenthood’s selling body parts of unborn children, either;

those whose stress is on the depravity documented in the Planned Parenthood videos, though they think the dentist shouldn’t have shot the lion.

I’m with that last group.

From G. K. Chesterton, a few apropos words:


There is a healthy and an unhealthy love of animals: and the nearest definition of the difference is that the unhealthy love of animals is serious. I am quite prepared to love a rhinoceros, with reasonable precautions: he is, doubtless, a delightful father to the young rhinoceroses. But I will not promise not to laugh at a rhinoceros. . . . I will not worship an animal. That is, I will not take an animal quite seriously: and I know why. Wherever there is Animal Worship there is Human Sacrifice. That is, both symbolically and literally, a real truth of historical experience. — G. K. Chesterton, “On Seriousness,” The Uses of Diversity (1920).

[fj1200]

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/unspinning-the-planned-parenthood-video/

Not that the facts matter to most of the right wing-nut chuckleheads posting here. And citing Rush Limbaugh as a source on anything is like citing pond scum as a source on quantum mechanics.

Only a leftie brays about the source without addressing the issue. What say you of society wailing about a lion and shrugging off the deaths of humans?

[Gunny]

Only a leftie brays about the source without addressing the issue. What say you of society wailing about a lion and shrugging off the deaths of humans?

Are we going to wait for this answer like the one he's ducked on EOs? I think I still had hair the first time he started whining about Bush.

[fj1200]

Are we going to wait for this answer like the one he's ducked on EOs? I think I still had hair the first time he started whining about Bush.

Of course not. Direct questions are like napalm to libs. ;)

[Voted4Reagan]

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/8549334784/h565E406C/

[revelarts]

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r124/Loralei_01/loralei_01/Capturenrl%20lions_zpsgjdtxxet.png

[fj1200]

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r124/Loralei_01/loralei_01/Capturenrl%20lions_zpsgjdtxxet.png

Well that's just mean.