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View Full Version : Second Amendment also covers those in US illegally



jimnyc
08-28-2015, 12:33 PM
Might as well just count their votes now... How do these folks come here illegally and just adopt the rights for REAL citizens of the United States of America? No wonder these fucks sneak in here from the gaping hole of the day, or gaping abuse of loopholes.

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MADISON, Wis. (AP) People living in the United States illegally have a constitutional right to bear arms but are still barred from doing so by a separate law, a federal appeals court ruled.

The three-judge panel of the U.S. 7th Circuit Court of Appeals issued its ruling Thursday in a case involving Mariano Meza-Rodriguez. His family brought him to the United States from Mexico illegally when he was four or five years old, according to the 7th Circuit ruling. Now an adult, he was arrested in 2013 after a bar fight in Milwaukee. Police found a .22-caliber bullet in his shorts pocket.

Federal law prohibits people in the country illegally from possessing guns or ammunition. Meza-Rodriguez argued that the charges should be dismissed because the law infringes on his Second Amendment right to bear arms. U.S. District Judge Rudolph Randa rejected that contention on the broad grounds that the Second Amendment doesn't apply to people in the country illegally. Meza-Rodriguez was ultimately convicted of a felony and deported.

The 7th Circuit panel, however, ruled unanimously Thursday that the term "the people" in the Second Amendment's guarantee that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed also applies to those in the country illegally. The ruling, which applies in Illinois, Indiana and Wisconsin, conflicts with opinions from three other federal appellate courts in recent years that found the Second Amendment doesn't apply to people in the country illegally.

"We see no principled way to carve out the Second Amendment and say that the unauthorized (or maybe all noncitizens) are excluded," Chief Judge Diane Wood wrote.

http://journaltimes.com/news/news-state-wi/court-second-amendment-also-covers-those-in-us-illegally/article_855ef023-9c26-507e-abb4-8835a3024b7a.html

NightTrain
08-28-2015, 12:46 PM
Meza-Rodriguez was ultimately convicted of a felony and deported.


At least they got something right.


I don't understand how they could possibly say that the 2nd applies to citizens of other countries.

Does this mean that we need to sue Britain because their citizens aren't allowed to own or carry firearms?

Lunacy, I say!

gabosaurus
08-28-2015, 03:33 PM
The second amendment doesn't say anything about being a citizen of the U.S.
If you believe that convicted felons and the mentally ill should have the right to own weapons, why not illegal aliens?

I personally don't believe felons should own guns. Same with those with defined mental illnesses such as PTSD. But I suppose you can't pick and choose who is allowed to be a gun nut.

Gunny
08-28-2015, 04:44 PM
Might as well just count their votes now... How do these folks come here illegally and just adopt the rights for REAL citizens of the United States of America? No wonder these fucks sneak in here from the gaping hole of the day, or gaping abuse of loopholes.

----

MADISON, Wis. (AP) People living in the United States illegally have a constitutional right to bear arms but are still barred from doing so by a separate law, a federal appeals court ruled.

The three-judge panel of the U.S. 7th Circuit Court of Appeals issued its ruling Thursday in a case involving Mariano Meza-Rodriguez. His family brought him to the United States from Mexico illegally when he was four or five years old, according to the 7th Circuit ruling. Now an adult, he was arrested in 2013 after a bar fight in Milwaukee. Police found a .22-caliber bullet in his shorts pocket.

Federal law prohibits people in the country illegally from possessing guns or ammunition. Meza-Rodriguez argued that the charges should be dismissed because the law infringes on his Second Amendment right to bear arms. U.S. District Judge Rudolph Randa rejected that contention on the broad grounds that the Second Amendment doesn't apply to people in the country illegally. Meza-Rodriguez was ultimately convicted of a felony and deported.

The 7th Circuit panel, however, ruled unanimously Thursday that the term "the people" in the Second Amendment's guarantee that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed also applies to those in the country illegally. The ruling, which applies in Illinois, Indiana and Wisconsin, conflicts with opinions from three other federal appellate courts in recent years that found the Second Amendment doesn't apply to people in the country illegally.

"We see no principled way to carve out the Second Amendment and say that the unauthorized (or maybe all noncitizens) are excluded," Chief Judge Diane Wood wrote.

http://journaltimes.com/news/news-state-wi/court-second-amendment-also-covers-those-in-us-illegally/article_855ef023-9c26-507e-abb4-8835a3024b7a.html

So you can be a convicted felon, done your time (as in "paid your debt to society") and you can't own a firearm; yet, if you are a criminal by your mere presence you have Rights you don't even have?

Does the brilliance ever end? :bang3:

jimnyc
08-28-2015, 05:14 PM
So you can be a convicted felon, done your time (as in "paid your debt to society") and you can't own a firearm; yet, if you are a criminal by your mere presence you have Rights you don't even have?

Does the brilliance ever end? :bang3:

They are granted licenses, welfare, now gun rights and everyone bends over backwards to help out the illegals. Hell, go to public meetings in some places and you'll be tuned out by the illegals in presence, demanding more rights! Someone needs to stop the insanity. I'll gladly pay more taxes to have a wall, man it with cameras and drones. Close any business that purposely employs them and benefits. Stop this crap with giving them more rights and privileges.

We should have an amendment as well, something to the effect that you MUST be a LEGAL US citizen in order to enjoy the full rights and protections of the US constitution.

Gunny
08-28-2015, 05:23 PM
They are granted licenses, welfare, now gun rights and everyone bends over backwards to help out the illegals. Hell, go to public meetings in some places and you'll be tuned out by the illegals in presence, demanding more rights! Someone needs to stop the insanity. I'll gladly pay more taxes to have a wall, man it with cameras and drones. Close any business that purposely employs them and benefits. Stop this crap with giving them more rights and privileges.

We should have an amendment as well, something to the effect that you MUST be a LEGAL US citizen in order to enjoy the full rights and protections of the US constitution.

Man it with cameras, drones and the military. While the left loves to scream posse comitatus, I'd argue that a threat from without negates their argument. The oath you take you to defend against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic.

I won't gladly pay more taxes. I think the cost should come out of the freebies Congress gets. They get their cleaning free, 2 trips a year home for free, rent-a-cars free, housing in DC free. Let's take that money from where it hurts the most. Take it from the pointless space program.

How much you suppose it cost to ship a case of suntory whiskey (which tastes like shit no matter what, btw) to the space station?

jimnyc
08-28-2015, 05:28 PM
Man it with cameras, drones and the military. While the left loves to scream posse comitatus, I'd argue that a threat from without negates their argument. The oath you take you to defend against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic.

I won't gladly pay more taxes. I think the cost should come out of the freebies Congress gets. They get their cleaning free, 2 trips a year home for free, rent-a-cars free, housing in DC free. Let's take that money from where it hurts the most. Take it from the pointless space program.

How much you suppose it cost to ship a case of suntory whiskey (which tastes like shit no matter what, btw) to the space station?

Congress should have limitations in terms, and in pay. It should be MUCH MUCH less. Do you know how many people would jump at the chance to represent their areas, for free? Sure, times have changed, and those working for us shouldn't be slaves - but we're also not voting them in there to get rich and ignore us. And how many members are there? Add up those salaries saved, per year. I think the lack of money involved will make things purer and weed out the Kennedy's of the political world.

Gunny
08-28-2015, 05:42 PM
Congress should have limitations in terms, and in pay. It should be MUCH MUCH less. Do you know how many people would jump at the chance to represent their areas, for free? Sure, times have changed, and those working for us shouldn't be slaves - but we're also not voting them in there to get rich and ignore us. And how many members are there? Add up those salaries saved, per year. I think the lack of money involved will make things purer and weed out the Kennedy's of the political world.

I agree completely. The problem with the GOP right now is we still have hangers-on from the "Contract with America" bunch. McConnell, Boehner .... they haven't done a damned thing but flinch every time the left makes an accusation. They were supposed to make things right.

I'd represent for for somewhat free. I don't expect them to do it for free. They don't need over $1K a year plus all the bennies to represent. Not that I know anything about it, but ....:laugh: ..... motel rooms in Northern VA aren't that pricey. Ride the train or bus like everyone else. They claim to represent the people but are too good to ride with them. Eat Ramen noodles for dinner. Try living like the ret of us so you know what you're representing.

Jeff
08-28-2015, 09:06 PM
The second amendment doesn't say anything about being a citizen of the U.S.
If you believe that convicted felons and the mentally ill should have the right to own weapons, why not illegal aliens?

I personally don't believe felons should own guns. Same with those with defined mental illnesses such as PTSD. But I suppose you can't pick and choose who is allowed to be a gun nut.

I believe as you do Gabby, and I believe most do. In fact that is what the NRA has been saying every time Obama screams lets get rid of the guns, it isn't guns that kill people, people kill people.

If you had ever bought a gun you would know you must fill out a form that asks about mental illness and criminal background, and yes these things also pop up on a background check, this is exactly what the NRA means when they say we don't need new laws we need to just enforce the ones we have already. Other than on a thread here I don't know of anyone that feels a felon or a mentally ill person should be allowed to own a gun, in fact I think some had simply stated they didn't feel the 2nd stated that it covered that, but it is the law.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
08-29-2015, 10:54 AM
Might as well just count their votes now... How do these folks come here illegally and just adopt the rights for REAL citizens of the United States of America? No wonder these fucks sneak in here from the gaping hole of the day, or gaping abuse of loopholes.

----

MADISON, Wis. (AP) People living in the United States illegally have a constitutional right to bear arms but are still barred from doing so by a separate law, a federal appeals court ruled.

The three-judge panel of the U.S. 7th Circuit Court of Appeals issued its ruling Thursday in a case involving Mariano Meza-Rodriguez. His family brought him to the United States from Mexico illegally when he was four or five years old, according to the 7th Circuit ruling. Now an adult, he was arrested in 2013 after a bar fight in Milwaukee. Police found a .22-caliber bullet in his shorts pocket.

Federal law prohibits people in the country illegally from possessing guns or ammunition. Meza-Rodriguez argued that the charges should be dismissed because the law infringes on his Second Amendment right to bear arms. U.S. District Judge Rudolph Randa rejected that contention on the broad grounds that the Second Amendment doesn't apply to people in the country illegally. Meza-Rodriguez was ultimately convicted of a felony and deported.

The 7th Circuit panel, however, ruled unanimously Thursday that the term "the people" in the Second Amendment's guarantee that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed also applies to those in the country illegally. The ruling, which applies in Illinois, Indiana and Wisconsin, conflicts with opinions from three other federal appellate courts in recent years that found the Second Amendment doesn't apply to people in the country illegally.

"We see no principled way to carve out the Second Amendment and say that the unauthorized (or maybe all noncitizens) are excluded," Chief Judge Diane Wood wrote.

http://journaltimes.com/news/news-state-wi/court-second-amendment-also-covers-those-in-us-illegally/article_855ef023-9c26-507e-abb4-8835a3024b7a.html


Idiot judges. Criminals in this country illegally, have no 2nd Amendment rights! That is insane IMHO.
How do those idiot judges get that the 2nd Amendment was written to be applied to boarder jumpers?
The ffing morons, the term -- "the people" at the time of the writing of the 2nd--clearly meant American citizens and could in no way mean illegals from any other nation!
FFing poppycock--those judges need their asses stomped --damn morons!
Hell, I know more about it than those damn idiots.--Tyr

jimnyc
08-29-2015, 10:58 AM
Idiot judges. Criminals in this country illegally, have no 2nd Amendment rights! That is insane IMHO.
How do those idiot judges get that the 2nd Amendment was written to be applied to boarder jumpers?
The ffing morons, the term -- "the people" at the time of the writing of the 2nd--clearly meant American citizens and could in no way mean illegals from any other nation!
FFing poppycock--those judges need their asses stomped --damn morons!
Hell, I know more about it than those damn idiots.--Tyr

I can't see how one can say that they have 2nd amendment rights and protections, without saying the same about every part of our constitution. And if so, COTUS then applies to anyone and everyone who is simply on our soil?

gabosaurus
08-29-2015, 11:01 AM
Once again, you can't pick and choose those covered by the second amendment. Anyone who is in the country is covered. Perhaps illegal aliens cross the border in search of their right to bear arms.
America is the home of the free and the land of gun nuts. :cheers2:

jimnyc
08-29-2015, 11:09 AM
I was just re-reading the text of the COTUS and the amendments. This will be interesting going forward, seeing as how beaners and wetbacks now have the same protections. As soon as they break the border barrier - BAM - citizens with protections! I say build the monster wall and electrify it, watch the scumbag wetbacks who have no regard for law, turn into little burnt mexican jumping beans.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
08-29-2015, 11:12 AM
I can't see how one can say that they have 2nd amendment rights and protections, without saying the same about every part of our constitution. And if so, COTUS then applies to anyone and everyone who is simply on our soil?
Citizens have rights that do not apply equally to legal foreign visitors. Can legal visitors vote? NO
Can legal foreign visitors serve on juries? No

This insanity coming from the damn courts has to be politically driven and thats because dem presidents put in
liberal political activists to be judges.
Obama put in two women that are obvious idiots, liberal activists and slaves to his nation destroying agenda!

Loooooooooooooooooooooooooook at what havoc those two vermin have helped to wreck upon this nation!
Both are pure scum....
Hundreds of far more qualified and honorable men were passed over to infest the court with those two lapdogs.

Three, if counting the stinking obama.. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: -Tyr

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
08-29-2015, 11:16 AM
Once again, you can't pick and choose those covered by the second amendment. Anyone who is in the country is covered. Perhaps illegal aliens cross the border in search of their right to bear arms.
America is the home of the free and the land of gun nuts. :cheers2:

So you say but just wait until either you and/or a member of your family is attacked and harmed by these
poor creatures so deserving to have guns.
After that you would cry to heavens to --- gun 'em down as they cross. A fact....-Tyr

jimnyc
08-29-2015, 11:19 AM
Citizens have rights that do not apply equally to legal foreign visitors. Can legal visitors vote? NO
Can legal foreign visitors serve on juries? No

This insanity coming from the damn courts has to be politically driven and thats because dem presidents put in
liberal political activists to be judges.
Obama put in two women that are obvious idiots, liberal activists and slaves to his nation destroying agenda!

Loooooooooooooooooooooooooook at what havoc those two vermin have helped to wreck upon this nation!
Both are pure scum....
Hundreds of far more qualified and honorable men were passed over to infest the court with those two lapdogs.

Three, if counting the stinking obama.. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: -Tyr

For awhile I thought maybe the 7th circuit was from the land of the fruits, nuts and scumbags. This one is from Obama's hometown of Chicago. The nations toughest gun laws, and so many murders as a result - wants to make it A-ok for the thieving illegals to own guns. No to Americans, but sorry, we have to allow illegals. WTF?

jimnyc
08-29-2015, 11:25 AM
So you say but just wait until either you and/or a member of your family is attacked and harmed by these
poor creatures so deserving to have guns.
After that you would cry to heavens to --- gun 'em down as they cross. A fact....-Tyr

Someone who talks about wanting a gun. Then mocks others as gun nuts.

What do you see that as? I see it as trolling. Hence her being on my ignore list, which you made me see by quoting!! :)

gabosaurus
08-29-2015, 01:29 PM
So you say but just wait until either you and/or a member of your family is attacked and harmed by these
poor creatures so deserving to have guns.
After that you would cry to heavens to --- gun 'em down as they cross. A fact....-Tyr

If my family is attacked, there will be hell to pay. Because I have a gun and I know how to use it.
My whole point is not that I want illegals to have guns. I agree on restrictions on gun possession. Unfortunately, others do not.


Hence her being on my ignore list, which you made me see by quoting!!

You are the alleged administrator of this board, yet you have some on your ignore list? Why even bother?
I rarely agree with tyr, but at least he has the gumption to stand up and state his opinions. The whole "trolling" thing is just a dodge.

tailfins
08-29-2015, 02:10 PM
Next stop for this bus: The Twenty-sixth amendment applies to illegal aliens. Since we have a "living, breathing" Constitution: Resident means citizen.

NightTrain
08-29-2015, 02:36 PM
You are the alleged administrator of this board, yet you have some on your ignore list? Why even bother?
I rarely agree with tyr, but at least he has the gumption to stand up and state his opinions. The whole "trolling" thing is just a dodge.


See how there are consequences for your actions?

He doesn't need to be able to see your attempts at trolling, because there are others on staff who do observe what you type.

If you would like to refrain from your tired old trolling game and sit at the adult's table, you know what to do.

jimnyc
08-29-2015, 04:10 PM
See how there are consequences for your actions?

He doesn't need to be able to see your attempts at trolling, because there are others on staff who do observe what you type.

If you would like to refrain from your tired old trolling game and sit at the adult's table, you know what to do.

She was offered the adult table endless times, and each time she chose to kick out the legs of the table to fuck with the others sitting there. She's like Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown. Eventually you've got to realize you're gonna land on your back. I'm admittedly a sucker and one that gives endless chances, and then I endlessly look like an asshole. The ignore function solves that for me.

tailfins
08-29-2015, 04:23 PM
She was offered the adult table endless times, and each time she chose to kick out the legs of the table to fuck with the others sitting there. She's like Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown. Eventually you've got to realize you're gonna land on your back. I'm admittedly a sucker and one that gives endless chances, and then I endlessly look like an asshole. The ignore function solves that for me.

God created me with a built in ignore function. I have been told that more subtle insults go right over my head. I see the things you struggle with then become grateful to be blind to most of it. I have heard that people get really angry and frustrated when they give someone the finger only to discover they have been doing it to a blind man. Practice being able to enjoy spinning objects (that aren't REALLY spinning) without puking. It's worth the effort and will provide countless hours of satisfaction.

I remember back in my ESPN days, I had my team lead and manager dressing me down at the same time (loud voices from two different directions), a nice fire sprinkler started spinning. After awhile, that team lead asked me what he just said. I had no idea. :cool: Watching that sprinkler spin was a pretty enjoyable experience.