Generator - what would you do?

[jimnyc]

We have sever flooding issues from the day we moved into this home 16 years ago. The water builds up in our backyard with huge storms and eventually gets into our basement. And then forget about it if we lose power!! We had all kinds of drainage systems installed. We also started on a generator.

Last summer we hired a contracting company to build a small deck to hold the generator. Then the generator was placed on top if it. Of course we then had to have the platform inspected, which it passed. The legs go like 4 feet deep for stability.

Next was to run electrical lines and plumbing to the generator. They did this quickly, but some work around it they prolonged and did as they pleased.

The main point? We are waiting for Con-Ed to come out and install a new meter which this generator will be ultimately connected to. So the job started last summer, and here we are reaching the end of the next summer, and still no word and still no Con-Ed. The wife is taking it in stride, but I'm pissed and blame our contractors. They should be on top of this and getting them here. Or at the very least, calling with updates, which they do not do. I know utility services can be slow, but damn! I've seen contractors build entire apartment buildings AND get all the meters done for them, in months. I don't know what the holdup is, but I'm getting pissed.

We paid like $10k for the generator. I forget how much for the platform and digging, but wasn't cheap. Then like $5k to have the front yard dug up and new piping ran. Then tons of dough to the electrician who spent days running all new lines and a new box inside the house.

And yet right now it sits there like a huge rock.

[Gunny]

We have sever flooding issues from the day we moved into this home 16 years ago. The water builds up in our backyard with huge storms and eventually gets into our basement. And then forget about it if we lose power!! We had all kinds of drainage systems installed. We also started on a generator.

Last summer we hired a contracting company to build a small deck to hold the generator. Then the generator was placed on top if it. Of course we then had to have the platform inspected, which it passed. The legs go like 4 feet deep for stability.

Next was to run electrical lines and plumbing to the generator. They did this quickly, but some work around it they prolonged and did as they pleased.

The main point? We are waiting for Con-Ed to come out and install a new meter which this generator will be ultimately connected to. So the job started last summer, and here we are reaching the end of the next summer, and still no word and still no Con-Ed. The wife is taking it in stride, but I'm pissed and blame our contractors. They should be on top of this and getting them here. Or at the very least, calling with updates, which they do not do. I know utility services can be slow, but damn! I've seen contractors build entire apartment buildings AND get all the meters done for them, in months. I don't know what the holdup is, but I'm getting pissed.

We paid like $10k for the generator. I forget how much for the platform and digging, but wasn't cheap. Then like $5k to have the front yard dug up and new piping ran. Then tons of dough to the electrician who spent days running all new lines and a new box inside the house.

And yet right now it sits there like a huge rock.

A generator cranks 746 volt-amps per minute. I'd do the job for half the price. Cuz I'm sneaky like that. :) I could do it for $2k and be just fine.

[NightTrain]

Dealing with utilities is tricky. They sideline people all the time.

I assume your contractor has already been paid off, so there's no clout there... but maybe a call to see if they're sympathetic can get them to call the right person at the utility - they definitely know who to call that can get things rolling. Knowing who the right person to contact at the utility is 90% of the battle. This is assuming that your contractor isn't viewed as a pain in the ass by the Utility, which is entirely possible and might be the reason you haven't gotten any love.

If that doesn't work, then you need to call your utility company directly and talk to the electrician dispatch foreman. He's the guy that makes things happen, and can also make you wait if he doesn't like you or your attitude... so keep that in mind as you chat him up.

They're all humping this time of year to beat the freeze, but you've been waiting for quite a while now.

There are other routes to take if this doesn't work, but try those 2 first and then we'll talk about leverage and getting someone's ass chewed.

[jimnyc]

A generator cranks 746 volt-amps per minute. I'd do the job for half the price. Cuz I'm sneaky like that. :) I could do it for $2k and be just fine.

The following is what I have. All told, it was a LOT more than what you would charge. And if you did it, I would take pics and hope I get one with you getting zapped for my enjoyment! :laugh:

Here is the platform and the cemented in legs:

http://i.imgur.com/qguCT5q.jpg

Here is the backside of the generator and the stupid gas line

http://i.imgur.com/n0U5hr3.jpg

And here's the big 'ol brick from the front

http://i.imgur.com/XN6eKOM.jpg

[NightTrain]

Man... too late now, but I would have gone with a diesel generator. A little more work because of the shelf life on fuel, but every year or 2 isn't bad and you want to run it anyway periodically.

If you get hammered by an earthquake or tsunami and they turn off the natural gas, that rig isn't going to do you any good.

Got a backup bottle you can feed that with in a case like that?

[jimnyc]

Man... too late now, but I would have gone with a diesel generator. A little more work because of the shelf life on fuel, but every year or 2 isn't bad and you want to run it anyway periodically.

If you get hammered by an earthquake or tsunami and they turn off the natural gas, that rig isn't going to do you any good.

Got a backup bottle you can feed that with in a case like that?

I don't understand these things. It runs off of our regular natural gas for the house. Wouldn't have a clue how to run it manually, not me!! LOL And if we get a tsunami, my ass is outta here! Same with a quake. But yeah, would be nice to know you have a few layers of protection.

But we've had the issue happen quite a few times (rain and lost power) and have lost our basement several times. This setup should more than protect us. Besides, I have no intent on staying here forever. We fully intend on moving at the end of the mortgage, or perhaps earlier.

[NightTrain]

You can get a converter for that to run off LP (liquid propane)... I believe it's just a regulator compatible for both sources. You'd have to install a 'T' in the fuel line there on the Generator side of the existing shut-off valve, so you can shut down the natural gas line and open up the LP line. There isn't a shelf life on a bottle of propane so you'd be covered and you probably already have a bottle for your BBQ anyway.

A couple of 20# or 40# bottles in reserve and you'd be golden.

Something to think about, it should be cheap and simple to have that ability with your setup there.

[hjmick]

What would you do?


First, I'd find some place that doesn't have floods that sever things! What would happen if one of those floods severed a leg or an arm? Holy hell, flooding that severe is something to be concerned about...


Second, I'd rig that generator to run on propane and get a big ass tank in the backyard and keep it filled. NT is right, any natural disaster that results in your needing the generator will most likely result in the natural gas in your neighborhood being shut off.


The Mrs. and I talk about getting a generator from time to time, we are in hurricane country after all, but I need to look in to the city ordinances and HOA rules regarding the size of propane tanks I can have in the yard...


I suppose I could keep twenty or thirty 15-20 gallon tanks around... but that would look kind of suspicious...

[jimnyc]

First, I'd find some place that doesn't have floods that sever things! What would happen if one of those floods severed a leg or an arm? Holy hell, flooding that severe is something to be concerned about...

I hate you, bastard. I hope you step in dog shit unexpectedly, and it's from a 200lb Mastiff. :laugh:


Second, I'd rig that generator to run on propane and get a big ass tank in the backyard and keep it filled. NT is right, any natural disaster that results in your needing the generator will most likely result in the natural gas in your neighborhood being shut off.

I'll definitely look into this, that's 2 of you now stating similarly. We really got this based on us losing power for the neighborhood/state, for which the longest we had off so far was 3-4 days? That was electricity only and we would have been mostly fine had we had this sucker up and running back then. My next concern would be this big ass tank you speak of. While I'm not fully against this generator having 2 means of fuel to run, I don't know about having a big 'ol tank in my yard. Would that increase or decrease the value of the home?


The Mrs. and I talk about getting a generator from time to time, we are in hurricane country after all, but I need to look in to the city ordinances and HOA rules regarding the size of propane tanks I can have in the yard...

HOA's, as mentioned in another thread recently, suck. Unless you have a friend on the board, of course. I saw many over the past 10 years going after folks for having flags in their yards. I wonder what's worse, a flag, or a big ass tank! :)

My thoughts right away are always 1) Air conditioning. I will die without it. End of story. :) 2) Fridge. Especially throughout a storm, if lengthy, it's nice to have food. 3) Heat, if it's winter. 4) Internet. Should be ranked #2 :)


I suppose I could keep twenty or thirty 15-20 gallon tanks around... but that would look kind of suspicious...

No doubt someone will label you the next propane bomber and call the feds on you and then next morning you wake up in Gitmo!

[Perianne]

My next concern would be this big ass tank you speak of. While I'm not fully against this generator having 2 means of fuel to run, I don't know about having a big 'ol tank in my yard. Would that increase or decrease the value of the home?


You can get underground tanks for propane.

[NightTrain]

First, I'd find some place that doesn't have floods that sever things! What would happen if one of those floods severed a leg or an arm? Holy hell, flooding that severe is something to be concerned about...


Second, I'd rig that generator to run on propane and get a big ass tank in the backyard and keep it filled. NT is right, any natural disaster that results in your needing the generator will most likely result in the natural gas in your neighborhood being shut off.


The Mrs. and I talk about getting a generator from time to time, we are in hurricane country after all, but I need to look in to the city ordinances and HOA rules regarding the size of propane tanks I can have in the yard...


I suppose I could keep twenty or thirty 15-20 gallon tanks around... but that would look kind of suspicious...


Go with a diesel setup, HJ. If the shit really hit the fan, your diesel needs would be easier met than with propane. Everything's got to be running fairly smooth for processing and distribution of propane, at the very least I see diesel being more of a priority in a limited capacity production scenario. Plus, you can siphon diesel out of trucks, heavy equipment, boats, etc., in an emergency. Hard to scavenge for propane!

Plus, Kerosene is just high quality diesel and there's old school kerosene lamps and heaters.

[jimnyc]

You can get underground tanks for propane.


Had not thought of that, a good idea! But not sure if we would ever do this or not. Would have to see the prices of the tank, installation, propane, upkeep and what it does to the value. And that's the easy part, next would be to convince the woman!!

[jimnyc]

Plus, you can siphon diesel out of trucks, heavy equipment, boats, etc., in an emergency. Hard to scavenge for propane!

Only emergencies? Hell, did that a few times for regular gas when friends and I wanted to get around! LOL

And before any of you yell at me, I have served my "time". Karma always gets you, and she did, a few times. Ok, more than a few times. I've paid my debt to society. :lol::laugh2:

[NightTrain]

You can get underground tanks for propane.

Well, you could... but that would be way overkill.

A 20# bottle of propane is what size is typically used on your BBQ. I don't know what the efficiency is of Jim's generator, but I expect that one 20# bottle could run that generator continuously for 20-24 hours.

A 40# bottle is twice the size, obviously, and it's still manageable to move around. A few of those in reserve and you'd be set for over a week plus - not that you'd want to run that generator all the time anyway, just when you need it.

[jimnyc]

Well, you could... but that would be way overkill.

A 20# bottle of propane is what size is typically used on your BBQ. I don't know what the efficiency is of Jim's generator, but I expect that one 20# bottle could run that generator continuously for 20-24 hours.

A 40# bottle is twice the size, obviously, and it's still manageable to move around. A few of those in reserve and you'd be set for over a week plus - not that you'd want to run that generator all the time anyway, just when you need it.

Really, that small of a tank can power my entire house, or most of it, for an entire day? Holy crap. How efficient do you think it will be on the natural gas? In other words, how much do I pay per day now on electricity, and how much per day on natural gas, without electricity?

[Perianne]

Well, you could... but that would be way overkill.

A 20# bottle of propane is what size is typically used on your BBQ. I don't know what the efficiency is of Jim's generator, but I expect that one 20# bottle could run that generator continuously for 20-24 hours.

A 40# bottle is twice the size, obviously, and it's still manageable to move around. A few of those in reserve and you'd be set for over a week plus - not that you'd want to run that generator all the time anyway, just when you need it.

I have read that typical standby generators use 1 - 1.5 gallons per hour of propane during operation. A 20-pound bottle of propane holds about five gallons. So one of those 20# tanks would last about 4-5 hours. Having enough propane on hand to last three days straight would require about 300 gallons of propane.

[NightTrain]

Really, that small of a tank can power my entire house, or most of it, for an entire day? Holy crap. How efficient do you think it will be on the natural gas? In other words, how much do I pay per day now on electricity, and how much per day on natural gas, without electricity?


Oh, you wouldn't save any money running your genny as opposed to what your utility charges you. They produce it pretty efficiently, even though all of us love to squawk about our electric bill.

But if you were sitting with a few 40# in reserve and used the generator sparingly, like only when you needed it, you could make that stretch nicely.

Also, if you went that route with an LP alternative, you'd want an electric method of cooking, like an electric skillet and things like that to supplement your BBQ - it's not very user friendly for everything you're going to want to cook. I assume your house is all natural gas, so you'd still want diversity in your basic household needs.

Take my cabin, for example. There's a propane stove/oven, a couple of Coleman whitegas stoves, kerosene lamps, propane lights, DC lights and AC lights. So if you run out of one resource, you're still good to go with 2 or more other systems. And the BBQ would be worked bigtime to save on the other resources. Wood works just fine in those. With the DC system we have there, it takes about an hour of generator time daily to recharge the batteries... so that Honda will last a week easily on one tank of gas.

Setting up a DC system in your house there isn't worth it if you're going to leave, though.

As far as added value? That's a good question... but a properly set up "off the grid capable" house should be worth more than what you have into it. That's something that appeals to a great many people, not just a nutty survivalist expecting nuclear war any minute. I'm not a Real Estate guy by any means, though. Probably someone else here knows about that.

[NightTrain]

I have read that typical standby generators use 1 - 1.5 gallons per hour of propane. A 20-pound bottle of propane holds about five gallons. So one of those 20# tanks would last about 4-5 hours. Having enough propane on hand to last three days straight would require about 300 gallons of propane.

You might be right... but that seems awfully high.

I'll research it.

[NightTrain]

Here's a great breakout of efficiency of propane vs. gas generators :

http://www.yamaha-propane-natural-gas-generators.com/fuel_consumption.htm


I can't tell how big Jim's engine is there, I assume it's going to be at least 10 HP.

Also, you're going to have a big discrepancy with efficiency according to the make of the engine - a Honda is going to be a lot more efficient than a Briggs & Stratton. I think Generac used Tecumseh engines for a while, and they were worse on fuel than a Briggs was.

[Perianne]

You might be right... but that seems awfully high.

I'll research it.

I researched it all when I bought my house. I decided the price was not worth it. It wasn't the generator, but the fuel costs that was the decision for me.

[Abbey Marie]

Bunch of wacky preppers! :laugh2: