Speaking of Callouts ... Tailfins Come Out to Play

[Gunny]

You fuckwit. What is your major ass malfunction? Why are you harassing others because of their beliefs? Some of yours are dumber'n a hitchpost. ANybody running around harassing the shit out of you about them? You can disagree without being a stalking dick. You take everything so personally and don't let go. Well give it a try, numbnuts.

And note: THIS is being a dick. But I ain't running around the board after you, nor am I in your PM box. I put it out in the open like a man.

I LIKE having people to talk to and not just YOU. How the hell does your skinny civilian ass ever expect to learn anything if you don't LISTEN to what people have to say? Oh yeah. You don't. CLUE.

And I ain't speaking for Jim, the staff, nor the board. I am speaking as a member of the board. One you don't want pissed off at you.

[Kathianne]

Truly he insults Catholicism as much or more than Wiccans. He's just a stirrer, one I mostly ignore. It galls me that our politics often align. :laugh:

[Gunny]

Truly he insults Catholicism as much or more than Wiccans. He's just a stirrer, one I mostly ignore. It galls me that our politics often align. :laugh:

I don't know what his problem is and I don't care. What I DON'T see are any of these insults toward you or wiccan on the board. Man the fuck up and come pick on some girls where we ALL can see your weak little ass. Get out of their PM boxes and man the fuck up. Stop being a pissy little coward.

You go right the fuck ahead and bring it. Your ass was logged in for an hour and a half after I posted this thread. No response.

And to Kath: I'm sure Jim's got his lasso out. You know how I get :laugh:

[Black Diamond]

Still no sign of him....?

[Jeff]

Still no sign of him....?

He is thinking of how he is going to sue Gunny for calling him out ( let alone a pissy little coward :laugh: nice touch Gunny !!!)

[Gunny]

He is thinking of how he is going to sue Gunny for calling him out ( let alone a pissy little coward :laugh: nice touch Gunny !!!)

I just don't see why someone's got come around pissing on people's beliefs, and doing it in hiding. You already KNOW you're wrong if you're doing it in PM and afraid to come out in the daylight. I haven't seen wiccan bother anyone around here and I'm surprised v4r hasn't jumped through the screen yet. He must have more patience than I do.

But this wuss crap needs to stop. You got something to say, man the fuck up and put it on the damned board. I rarely use PM and when I do, it's usually for information type stuff. Using it to attack others is backstabbing bullshit. And running people off for being an insufferable ass doesn't cut it either.

I bet TF doesn't even have a clue what a wiccan is. He's too busy judging to open up his little brain housing group and think or hear what someone else has to say.

Disagreeing with someone I can understand. This personal attack BS for no reason I can't.

[jimnyc]

This personal attack BS for no reason I can't.

I did not see him personally attack or "stalk" anyone. He has an issue with the occult and things like that. He should likely just shut up if it hurts a nice person, but he speaks up with his own religious beliefs in return.

Imagine if we had the sweetest and kindest young muslim lady posting here. Do you think she would be occasionally upset with the content? Or perhaps jumped on if she posted her religious beliefs? And then imagine if we wanted to ban everyone who spoke up towards her about Islam?

Maybe we can discuss a "safe" zone, or create such a forum. But if something is posted in the religious forum, then folks from all religious stripes are welcome to reply. No different than if someone catholic posts something and Noir of Gnostic replies. Or Jafar posts something and got hounded about his beliefs. Or if an atheist posts (noir) and some laugh at him.

If we had 9 folks here who posted about witch stuff or paganism, would this one still speak out? I believe 100% he would. That's why I don't think it's personally directed, but rather directed at the content.

[Gunny]

I did not see him personally attack or "stalk" anyone. He has an issue with the occult and things like that. He should likely just shut up if it hurts a nice person, but he speaks up with his own religious beliefs in return.

Imagine if we had the sweetest and kindest young muslim lady posting here. Do you think she would be occasionally upset with the content? Or perhaps jumped on if she posted her religious beliefs? And then imagine if we wanted to ban everyone who spoke up towards her about Islam?

Maybe we can discuss a "safe" zone, or create such a forum. But if something is posted in the religious forum, then folks from all religious stripes are welcome to reply. No different than if someone catholic posts something and Noir of Gnostic replies. Or Jafar posts something and got hounded about his beliefs. Or if an atheist posts (noir) and some laugh at him.

If we had 9 folks here who posted about witch stuff or paganism, would this one still speak out? I believe 100% he would. That's why I don't think it's personally directed, but rather directed at the content.

I actually could care less if she's wiccan or whatever. The fact is, they are benign. I wouldn't care if it was a Muslim. I WOULD care if it was a radical, intolerant Muslim.

I think y'all are a bunch of dumb civilians. But I try to understand that and for the most part try to be tolerant. And THAT is one of the things that makes military people unique. We don't live in your little world. We've been been everywhere and seen so much weird shit but the one thing we had to learn was tolerance. So everyone can call everyone names here for not believing what they do. I try to understand people that are different than I am.

At any rate, I don't think losing 2 people because of the intolerance of 1 is much of a deal. Just my opinion.

[Gunny]

And just to clarify, I ain't calling anyone dumb. "Dumb civilians" is a military term. My point is, we all look at things through our worlds. It doesn't require judging others unless they are harmful.

[jimnyc]

At any rate, I don't think losing 2 people because of the intolerance of 1 is much of a deal. Just my opinion.

I think it sucks, but I can't simply ban others in order to keep membership. Either we are FOR freedom of speech, or we are not. Dumping on anothers religion isn't the same as a personal attack as the rules have in mind. And if we protect one's religion from such words - do we then do it for all members that hold their religion close to them? As I stated yesterday, 3/4 of the board would be banned for their words about Islam and their followers.

And to this day, people will come out with all kinds of reasons to avoid using the ignore feature of the board. And then the arguments and disagreements continue. And then folks would rather leave than simply click a button and make their problem disappear.

[Perianne]

And to this day, people will come out with all kinds of reasons to avoid using the ignore feature of the board. And then the arguments and disagreements continue. And then folks would rather leave than simply click a button and make their problem disappear.

But I tried to ignore YOU and it won't let me because you are admin. See how unfair this system is? You drive me bonkers with your "hating Perianne" and there is nothing I can do about it. :)

Seriously, though, posters come and go. We all know that. I have looked at the leaders in posts. Most of them I don't know. People get tired of forums for whatever reason and they leave.

I hope Wiccan and V4R stay here with us.

[DLT]

I actually could care less if she's wiccan or whatever. The fact is, they are benign. I wouldn't care if it was a Muslim. I WOULD care if it was a radical, intolerant Muslim.

I think y'all are a bunch of dumb civilians. But I try to understand that and for the most part try to be tolerant. And THAT is one of the things that makes military people unique. We don't live in your little world. We've been been everywhere and seen so much weird shit but the one thing we had to learn was tolerance. So everyone can call everyone names here for not believing what they do. I try to understand people that are different than I am.

At any rate, I don't think losing 2 people because of the intolerance of 1 is much of a deal. Just my opinion.

I usually don't get involved in conflicts like this (not a mod, don't have to)...but....

where are all of the stalking and offensive comments? Can't they be posted in the Steel Cage for the sake of this argument, or is that against the rules?

It just seems that if someone is going to be called out and accused, the evidence against them should be put out on the table for everyone to peruse....else it is an unfair action. If I were her (WiccanL)...I would have asked Jim if I could post the offensive PMs in order to get consensus or a judgment call from the members here.

[jimnyc]

I usually don't get involved in conflicts like this (not a mod, don't have to)...but....

where are all of the stalking and offensive comments? Can't they be posted in the Steel Cage for the sake of this argument, or is that against the rules?

It just seems that if someone is going to be called out and accused, the evidence against them should be put out on the table for everyone to peruse....else it is an unfair action. If I were her (WiccanL)...I would have asked Jim if I could post the offensive PMs in order to get consensus or a judgment call from the members here.

There were no offensive PM's at all.

The offending thread is in the religious section, the thread dated yesterday about witches. - http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?51817-Image-of-the-witch

The issue is the 2nd post, TF's reply about the OP.

[jimnyc]

But I tried to ignore YOU and it won't let me because you are admin. See how unfair this system is? You drive me bonkers with your "hating Perianne" and there is nothing I can do about it. :)

Seriously, though, posters come and go. We all know that. I have looked at the leaders in posts. Most of them I don't know. People get tired of forums for whatever reason and they leave.

I hope Wiccan and V4R stay here with us.

I actually thought of changing that, which it can be changed. Right now members cannot place staff on ignore. I'm willing to change that, but it could cause issues. I can see someone getting angry and placing all staff on ignore. Then there would be no way to privately or publicly discuss things with them if there was an issue.

I know you were only messin, but I'm sure some have tried to place moderators on ignore, whether here or elsewhere. This software is quite popular and the default is to not allow it. :)

[Black Diamond]

There were no offensive PM's at all.

The offending thread is in the religious section, the thread dated yesterday about witches. - http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?51817-Image-of-the-witch

The issue is the 2nd post, TF's reply about the OP.
See there's nothing wrong with that post. They would have left eventually over some other reason or continued to push you for more and more protection.

[jimnyc]

See there's nothing wrong with that post. They would have left eventually over some other reason or continued to push you for more and more protection.

In fairness, there is history. She is a witch, and TF is opposed to such things. She or V4R discuss certain things, TF is eager to post his issues against it. And in further fairness, she is one of the kindest ladies on the board. I've never seen her troll anyone or talk smack in any way. Nonetheless, the issue starts, then turns into a fight between V4R and TF. This time I instantly closed the thread when I became aware and am dealing with the fallout because I did not ban TF or somehow punish him.

I'm just stuck, as I know if I were to ban someone for speaking out against another persons religious beliefs, then I should make sure I enforce such actions equally. The same thing if I were to suddenly start moderating people calling one another names. I believe these 2 things especially are usually personal issues members have with one another. Personal dislike for other members and what they say should be handled via the ignore button.

[Black Diamond]

In fairness, there is history. She is a witch, and TF is opposed to such things. She or V4R discuss certain things, TF is eager to post his issues against it. And in further fairness, she is one of the kindest ladies on the board. I've never seen her troll anyone or talk smack in any way. Nonetheless, the issue starts, then turns into a fight between V4R and TF. This time I instantly closed the thread when I became aware and am dealing with the fallout because I did not ban TF or somehow punish him.

I'm just stuck, as I know if I were to ban someone for speaking out against another persons religious beliefs, then I should make sure I enforce such actions equally. The same thing if I were to suddenly start moderating people calling one another names. I believe these 2 things especially are usually personal issues members have with one another. Personal dislike for other members and what they say should be handled via the ignore button.

Sorry if I offended by calling them pussies but what vfr did last night was a pussy move. In running my dad's business when people said I am leaving unless you pay me more, give me benefits, etc, its best to let them leave.

[Black Diamond]

Sorry if I offended by calling them pussies but what vfr did last night was a pussy move. In running my dad's business when people said I am leaving unless you pay me more, give me benefits, etc, its best to let them leave.

More accurately, they say they are leaving and you woo them with benefits, higher pay, etc.

[Gunny]

In fairness, there is history. She is a witch, and TF is opposed to such things. She or V4R discuss certain things, TF is eager to post his issues against it. And in further fairness, she is one of the kindest ladies on the board. I've never seen her troll anyone or talk smack in any way. Nonetheless, the issue starts, then turns into a fight between V4R and TF. This time I instantly closed the thread when I became aware and am dealing with the fallout because I did not ban TF or somehow punish him.

I'm just stuck, as I know if I were to ban someone for speaking out against another persons religious beliefs, then I should make sure I enforce such actions equally. The same thing if I were to suddenly start moderating people calling one another names. I believe these 2 things especially are usually personal issues members have with one another. Personal dislike for other members and what they say should be handled via the ignore button.

And you KNOW I understand your position as well as anyone. I'm not for banning anyone. I'm for everyone shutting the hell up and marching on. Anyone that NEEDS to use the ignore function should. MY ignore function is between my ears. I can get up and go have a smoke, log off or whatever. I don't care for self-censorship anymore than censorship by others.

I just always hated this kind of crap because no one wins and everyone loses.

[jimnyc]

And you KNOW I understand your position as well as anyone. I'm not for banning anyone. I'm for everyone shutting the hell up and marching on. Anyone that NEEDS to use the ignore function should. MY ignore function is between my ears. I can get up and go have a smoke, log off or whatever. I don't care for self-censorship anymore than censorship by others.

I just always hated this kind of crap because no one wins and everyone loses.

I understand everyone's reasons for not wanting to use the ignore feature, but I think it's better than leaving the board altogether. I think everyone likes them, as I do. I offered my spare room to them during the hurricane and would do it again in a NY minute. I think they're good people.

And yes, that's my point, that personal issues between members get dropped into my lap. And then no matter what I do I am the bad guy, and it's possible someone may leave. I don't see a point in anyone leaving when the ignore feature will almost make the other person disappear.

[Perianne]

I actually thought of changing that, which it can be changed. Right now members cannot place staff on ignore. I'm willing to change that, but it could cause issues. I can see someone getting angry and placing all staff on ignore. Then there would be no way to privately or publicly discuss things with them if there was an issue.

I know you were only messin, but I'm sure some have tried to place moderators on ignore, whether here or elsewhere. This software is quite popular and the default is to not allow it. :)

Of course I was only messing with you. You should NOT change things. They are great the way they are. And you are the best admin ever, sir. And if Perianne says it, you know it is true!!!

[Gunny]

And I guess my main point is to Mr Top 5% of Whatever is .... you can't just say what you want to whoever you want without consequence. I got lots of things I don't agree with, with a lot of people. Use some of that Top 5% brain to learn about others instead of attacking them. The people I know are going to react to me in a way that disrupts the entire board I don't comment on nor respond to. In case you haven't noticed, when I do. I'm not confused with Mr Nice Guy.

Jim's actually the one being Mr Nice Guy. He's usually in my ass by now. But you're hiding like a little girl when you're being personally called out and attacked; yet, you think it's fine to do it yourself to others. Jim's got a board to run. I don't anymore, thank God. And THIS little event is one of THE biggest reasons. All this fucking drama. It's THE reason I stayed off for several years.

[Gunny]

I understand everyone's reasons for not wanting to use the ignore feature, but I think it's better than leaving the board altogether. I think everyone likes them, as I do. I offered my spare room to them during the hurricane and would do it again in a NY minute. I think they're good people.

And yes, that's my point, that personal issues between members get dropped into my lap. And then no matter what I do I am the bad guy, and it's possible someone may leave. I don't see a point in anyone leaving when the ignore feature will almost make the other person disappear.

I agree. And again. you KNOW I know what you deal with. I got where I didn't even want to log on because I knew I had a 10 paragraph diatribe from a certain member waiting in my PM box wanting this or that person banned.

That's why I made it clear I was calling HIM out, as a member, and don't represent you nor the board. I can say stuff you can't. :)

I don't want ANYONE leaving, and certainly not because of one person.

[Jeff]

The ignore button seems to be the best choice in this situation, personally I have never used it but there comes a point when you know that no good is going to come of reading each others post.

With that said, to condemn another for there choice of religion is wrong ( he who cast the first stone and all that) no one on earth is perfect, and if you are truly a Christian and wanting to do the work of God's work, well putting someone down every chance you get isn't the correct way. As for Wiccan I didn't pay no attention to her name nor what her religious beliefs are ( seriously if you think you are going to change someones religious beliefs on a political debate board, well you have much more serious problems , that's right we already knew that :laugh: ) let it go, you are doing more harm to Christianity than good.

As for the dumb civilians, this coming from a guy from TX ( enough said ) :laugh:

As for putting the Admin on ignore, I hear ya Perianne, it didn't work for me either. :laugh:

[Gunny]

The ignore button seems to be the best choice in this situation, personally I have never used it but there comes a point when you know that no good is going to come of reading each others post.

With that said, to condemn another for there choice of religion is wrong ( he who cast the first stone and all that) no one on earth is perfect, and if you are truly a Christian and wanting to do the work of God's work, well putting someone down every chance you get isn't the correct way. As for Wiccan I didn't pay no attention to her name nor what her religious beliefs are ( seriously if you think you are going to change someones religious beliefs on a political debate board, well you have much more serious problems , that's right we already knew that :laugh: ) let it go, you are doing more harm to Christianity than good.

As for the dumb civilians, this coming from a guy from TX ( enough said ) :laugh:

As for putting the Admin on ignore, I hear ya Perianne, it didn't work for me either. :laugh:

Everyone's into their Bible verses lately, so I can join the club ... Matthew 7:1 "judge not lest ye be judged".

As far as that Texan junk goes: Judges 15:8 "And he smote them hip and thigh with a great slaughter: and he went down and dwelt in the top of the rock Etam."

[hjmick]

All this over religion... All this over a person's belief system...


Fucking glad I'm an atheist or something close to it...


Whatever happened to "Live and let live?"

[tailfins]

And I guess my main point is to Mr Top 5% of Whatever is .... you can't just say what you want to whoever you want without consequence. I got lots of things I don't agree with, with a lot of people. Use some of that Top 5% brain to learn about others instead of attacking them. The people I know are going to react to me in a way that disrupts the entire board I don't comment on nor respond to. In case you haven't noticed, when I do. I'm not confused with Mr Nice Guy.

Jim's actually the one being Mr Nice Guy. He's usually in my ass by now. But you're hiding like a little girl when you're being personally called out and attacked; yet, you think it's fine to do it yourself to others. Jim's got a board to run. I don't anymore, thank God. And THIS little event is one of THE biggest reasons. All this fucking drama. It's THE reason I stayed off for several years.

I didn't know that when I first joined DP. I have an idea about that now. I would have to say I'm a better person as a result of being on Jim's message board.

[Gunny]

I didn't know that when I first joined DP. I have an idea about that now. I would have to say I'm a better person as a result of being on Jim's message board.

Dude, that's a rule in LIFE, not just a message board. You don't get to do and/or say what you want without consequence. It's called personal responsibility. You can say or do what you want but be prepared for the fallout.

[Kathianne]

I think it was Rev who said that some overreacted to TF proclamations on Wiccans and Catholicism. In the first place, I always consider the source. My observation was simply that he has posted more screeds on Catholicism than Wiccans, for the most part I just let it roll.

I find it more difficult at times with others whom are usually more open minded regarding discussions. For some reason they feel it's ok to just blast away at others beliefs. In all honesty I don't really 'get' why those that don't believe something, feel compelled to make statements that condemn others. Since it's nearly always those that consider themselves Evangelicals, I feel pretty confident in my opinion that many of them are a sorry lot. Those that go full throttle in judgements of others are moving much closer to the time they'll be judged and not by the likes of us.

[Gunny]

I think it was Rev who said that some overreacted to TF proclamations on Wiccans and Catholicism. In the first place, I always consider the source. My observation was simply that he has posted more screeds on Catholicism than Wiccans, for the most part I just let it roll.

I find it more difficult at times with others whom are usually more open minded regarding discussions. For some reason they feel it's ok to just blast away at others beliefs. In all honesty I don't really 'get' why those that don't believe something, feel compelled to make statements that condemn others. Since it's nearly always those that consider themselves Evangelicals, I feel pretty confident in my opinion that many of them are a sorry lot. Those that go full throttle in judgements of others are moving much closer to the time they'll be judged and not by the likes of us.

I actually think it's just the opposite. The closed-minded blast away at others beliefs. The open minded kind of sit back and ... "hmmm ... okay". I don't understand a lot of y'all's beliefs. I know most of you as people I interact with. You're Catholic. Don't get it but it's not my business. Hasn't made you less of a person to me. Same with Wiccan. And I can see why she might be a bit more sensitive than the rest of us. It ain't like we get called witches and heretics every day. Hell, I even got along with an ultra leftwing pacifist from Canada once upon a time.

So I agree on the judgement thing. When it comes to US anyway. :laugh: These people that drive around this city on their cells are another matter ....

[Kathianne]

I actually think it's just the opposite. The closed-minded blast away at others beliefs. The open minded kind of sit back and ... "hmmm ... okay". I don't understand a lot of y'all's beliefs. I know most of you as people I interact with. You're Catholic. Don't get it but it's not my business. Hasn't made you less of a person to me. Same with Wiccan. And I can see why she might be a bit more sensitive than the rest of us. It ain't like we get called witches and heretics every day. Hell, I even got along with an ultra leftwing pacifist from Canada once upon a time.

So I agree on the judgement thing. When it comes to US anyway. :laugh: These people that drive around this city on their cells are another matter ....
We agree on the bolded, except for religion. It's only a few, but they are over the top with some of their positions, especially their judgment proclamations. They appear to think they are a god.

[Gunny]

All this over religion... All this over a person's belief system...


Fucking glad I'm an atheist or something close to it...


Whatever happened to "Live and let live?"

Fuck all that, heathen. You're next. :laugh:

[Gunny]

We agree on the bolded, except for religion. It's only a few, but they are over the top with some of their positions, especially their judgment proclamations. They appear to think they are a god.

I wasn't raised that way. You came to my church hungry, you might get a lousy sandwich but you got a sandwich. You needed clothes, half the congregation was giving you stuff. NOBODY got turned away at the door of my church that I recall. Didn't matter what color you were nor anything else. If you needed help, you got it. That's just the way we were. You know, us dumb Southern rednecks clinging to our guns and bibles. We believed in our faith and didn't concern ourselves with the faith of others.

But I'll go with you on this one ... anyone here thinks they're God, get to explaining. And anyone who thinks their faith solely has a lock on God, want to hear that one too. Then you can run right on back to your Bibles and go for it. Try Daniel 12:1-13.

He is the God to ALL no matter what people choose to call Him.

[Voted4Reagan]

Try Daniel 12:1-13.

He is the God to ALL no matter what people choose to call Him.

:clap::clap::clap: