Freedom of Speech

[jimnyc]

Several folks on here made comments about "lack of moderation". Mostly stemming from last nights issue, but I've been told a few peeps from others in the past few months.

So fine, if it's the community that is angry and wants change, I'll give you guys an opportunity to make that decision. Be careful what you wish for.

-----

Folks are angry because someone attacked another person's religion, or that person's use of that religion, or that person directly because of religion. Another time was when someone was called a name. The other issues aren't even worth mentioning, but the end goal would be the same.

If we do this - then we should also reel in attacks on Islam. And if someone like Jafar should come to this board, folks need to not attack him or his religion. If deemed 'personal' towards that person, action will be taken.

Someone like "Gnostic", who continually bashes christianity, we would take action there too. Same with an atheist, of which we have a few. I've seen attacks on ALL religions, and many of them lead towards condemning the "follower" in some manner.

As for calling folks names, yikes! VERY few here can make a claim of never calling another a name here, or never provoking another. Names and sarcasm come out non-stop when in heated debates, for better or worse.

So we can reel in the attacks on religion, but we MUST do it for EVERYONE. And we can reel in folks being called names they don't care for, but then we MUST enforce equally for all members.

---

So what does the community want? Do you want enforcement across the board of such things? Do you like freedom of speech, at least until someone offends YOU? Do you want us to change from hands off mostly - to heavy handed?

[fj1200]

So what does the community want? Do you want enforcement across the board of such things? Do you like freedom of speech, at least until someone offends YOU? Do you want us to change from hands off mostly - to heavy handed?

The problem with anyone infringing on speech is that the enforcers are fallible.

[jimnyc]

The problem with anyone infringing on speech is that the enforcers are fallible.

I agree. What is an insult to one person is benign to another. I'd rather not be the one to determine what rises to the level of an "actionable" insult. "insults" and the equivalent, personal issues, these things I think are best handled by the ignore button. I've felt this way since 2003. Apparently I'm like the only one.

[Perianne]

I agree. What is an insult to one person is benign to another. I'd rather not be the one to determine what rises to the level of an "actionable" insult. "insults" and the equivalent, personal issues, these things I think are best handled by the ignore button. I've felt this way since 2003. Apparently I'm like the only one.

Jim, leave things the way they are now. This is a good forum.

[Elessar]

Jim, leave things the way they are now. This is a good forum.

Leave it alone, use the ignore feature.

Otherwise grow the hell up...

Former Forum Owner, Admin, and Chief Mod Sends...

[DLT]

Several folks on here made comments about "lack of moderation". Mostly stemming from last nights issue, but I've been told a few peeps from others in the past few months.

So fine, if it's the community that is angry and wants change, I'll give you guys an opportunity to make that decision. Be careful what you wish for.

-----

Folks are angry because someone attacked another person's religion, or that person's use of that religion, or that person directly because of religion. Another time was when someone was called a name. The other issues aren't even worth mentioning, but the end goal would be the same.

If we do this - then we should also reel in attacks on Islam. And if someone like Jafar should come to this board, folks need to not attack him or his religion. If deemed 'personal' towards that person, action will be taken.

Someone like "Gnostic", who continually bashes christianity, we would take action there too. Same with an atheist, of which we have a few. I've seen attacks on ALL religions, and many of them lead towards condemning the "follower" in some manner.

As for calling folks names, yikes! VERY few here can make a claim of never calling another a name here, or never provoking another. Names and sarcasm come out non-stop when in heated debates, for better or worse.

So we can reel in the attacks on religion, but we MUST do it for EVERYONE. And we can reel in folks being called names they don't care for, but then we MUST enforce equally for all members.

---

So what does the community want? Do you want enforcement across the board of such things? Do you like freedom of speech, at least until someone offends YOU? Do you want us to change from hands off mostly - to heavy handed?

Freedom of Speech has somehow (thanks to the idiot left) morphed into Freedom to be perpetually offended. Sorry, but that is NOT what it means, lefties.

Here on this forum there are several alternatives to being perpetually offended. You can put someone on ignore. You can ask that they put YOU on ignore. And if someone actually trolls or insults you, you can report them. Hopefully, if the mods think they went over the line, they will act on your behalf. I think thread bans work wonderfully well, but that's just me.

As for insisting on more enforcement here, nah. It's fine just the way it is. (my 2cents)

[tailfins]

I'm open to coaching when the perspective has my best interest in mind. When someone gets angry at me, they get angry with a segment of society. I don't come up with these ideas all by myself, I got many of them from somebody. Many come from trial and error. It's like getting angry at me because you don't like "tails" but when I flip a coin 100 times, but it comes up "tails" 50.

I would go as far to say that insisting that someone embark on a failed course of action is an act of sabotage. I could just imagine some people at an Autism support group meeting saying, "Why yes, I think you should stay alone and unemployed. Just stay depressed instead of finding ways to "rev up" your brain function." Of course, I would call such a participant an idiot and proceed to tell the group to fix what torments them by any legal means necessary.

[revelarts]

I have to say. all due respect to Wiccan and V4R. that IMO they have been fairly sensitive about their religious perspective. As Jim Mentioned Jafar took a lot of abuse. Gnot-a-christian was very aggressive in his anti christian attacks. Noir has been more personable but never really pulling punches on his critiques of religion. And most of us christians take it and try to reply .. or not.
other members have come and gone that i can think of like wind song and some satanist dude that were pretty harsh on christains here and in general.

It always kind of surprises me that on a debate forum some people get upset about someone here who honestly disagrees with them.
I've had to remind myself of this from time to time.

But Frankly touching religion .. no offense intended here just my observation... the people most sensitive to religious criticism have been Wiccan V4R and a few roman catholics.

if there's criticism on those fronts it's often not replied to factually or doctrinally but with a more emotional response. sometimes outrage at the very suggestion that there may be something wrong with their chosen religion.

if this were a ONE religion forum I might agree that random neg comments against the religion were completely out of line. But .. it's a debate forum.
Where we talk about politics and religion.
Funny, somehow people don't always agree.
seems to me if you've got something to defend, defend it. Don't ONLY get pissed that someone REALLY thinks you're wrong.
if you don't want to defend it, then ignore it as much as possible if you can.

[revelarts]

But Tailfin, i have to say as well. IMO. there's no need to follow on EVERY post of Wiccan and V4R with a corrective commentary. No matter how benign your comment may seem to you it seems to be like sticking a knife into them.

There is a place for tact and for speaking the truth in love on these issues. right?
Just like your views (good and bad) come from others and long experience so do there's. I suspect if we all want to get closer to God's truth we all should allow people a bit of space to move to get a better perspective rather than only picking at the negative bits.

[gabosaurus]

Free speech does not exist on message boards. Everyone is subject to the whims of the administrators. If you don't believe me, go to DU. Where I have been banned twice.

As always, I believe in the Golden Rule. Whoever spends the gold to maintain the board, makes the rules.

Jim, I implore you to stop getting your feelings hurt so easily and toughen up. Same for everyone else. Just because someone insults your religious and/or political beliefs is no reason to get butthurt and crawl off.
Remember, DP is a message board. It's not real life. If you start getting too upset about how a conversation is going, you are always free to collapse your browser and leave.
In the end, it's all water off a duck's back.

http://www.takeasecondchance.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/dont-believe-everything-you-see-on-the-internet.jpg

http://onlinemask-cyberbullying.yolasite.com/resources/yelloing%20cat.jpg

[Black Diamond]

Keep things the way they are. If people are going to be whiny pussies in such instances as last night, they would have left eventually for some other reason. As you said, there's an ignore function.

[aboutime]

Personally.I have never had any problem with name calling, or references to religious beliefs here. My biggest problem has always been how simply some PRETEND they are someone, or something WE KNOW...they are not. To be more specific. LIES. Pure, unadulterated Lies by some who feel the comfort, and power of never being exposed for who they really are...or the consequences of such could bring them to being banned here.

I've been around long enough to recognize, and understand how some anonymous people feel the power they can exert here...merely because they are able to pretend to be someone they could only wish, or hope to be in real life.
The internet provides a safe sanctuary to everyone who enjoys the ability to pretend, rather than be honest with themselves, or others...because they can.
Bottom line. Like politicians, and Obama.....I DESPISE LIARS...no matter where they are.

You will never get rid of liars, nor can you IGNORE them hoping to make them go away.
LIARS run everything. Just Think About it.

[Abbey Marie]

If we have to heavy-moderate every religious disagreement, I want $50/hr!

:laugh2:

For the record, I did not even see a personal attack in that thread. Which is to say, even if you changed the rules, I would not have moderated it.

[Black Diamond]

If we have to heavy-moderate every religious disagreement, I want $50/hr!

:laugh2:

For the record, I did not even see a personal attack in that thread. Which is to say, even if you changed the rules, I would not have moderated it.
Maybe they were offended by the word "Jesus"

[gabosaurus]

I personally think the lot of you are messed up far right pagans who need Jesus! :drama:

[aboutime]

I personally think the lot of you are messed up far right pagans who need Jesus! :drama:


That's really funny coming from you Gabby. Since God/Jesus created "Preparation-H"...just to make you able to TALK OUT OF YOUR BUTT!

[tailfins]

But Tailfin, i have to say as well. IMO. there's no need to follow on EVERY post of Wiccan and V4R with a corrective commentary. No matter how benign your comment may seem to you it seems to be like sticking a knife into them.

There is a place for tact and for speaking the truth in love on these issues. right?
Just like your views (good and bad) come from others and long experience so do there's. I suspect if we all want to get closer to God's truth we all should allow people a bit of space to move to get a better perspective rather than only picking at the negative bits.

I agree with your premise. How do I implement it? Assume I'm an idiot when you reply to this.

[Gunny]

Several folks on here made comments about "lack of moderation". Mostly stemming from last nights issue, but I've been told a few peeps from others in the past few months.

So fine, if it's the community that is angry and wants change, I'll give you guys an opportunity to make that decision. Be careful what you wish for.

-----

Folks are angry because someone attacked another person's religion, or that person's use of that religion, or that person directly because of religion. Another time was when someone was called a name. The other issues aren't even worth mentioning, but the end goal would be the same.

If we do this - then we should also reel in attacks on Islam. And if someone like Jafar should come to this board, folks need to not attack him or his religion. If deemed 'personal' towards that person, action will be taken.

Someone like "Gnostic", who continually bashes christianity, we would take action there too. Same with an atheist, of which we have a few. I've seen attacks on ALL religions, and many of them lead towards condemning the "follower" in some manner.

As for calling folks names, yikes! VERY few here can make a claim of never calling another a name here, or never provoking another. Names and sarcasm come out non-stop when in heated debates, for better or worse.

So we can reel in the attacks on religion, but we MUST do it for EVERYONE. And we can reel in folks being called names they don't care for, but then we MUST enforce equally for all members.

---

So what does the community want? Do you want enforcement across the board of such things? Do you like freedom of speech, at least until someone offends YOU? Do you want us to change from hands off mostly - to heavy handed?

I'm for freedom of speech on topics. I'm NOT for using the guise of freedom of speech for members to attack one another outside the Steel Cage. And there's no real line to draw. It's up to the judgement of the staff. When does a snide remark become an outright insult? Therein lies the problem. And you can't solve it. You're a leftwinger one minute, a rightwinger one minute, don't have any balls one minute ... know the drill.

I think you don't need to change anything. I think some members need to change the way they think, and learn to appreciate what they have here and understand your position -- terminally stuck in the middle.

[indago]

All Whines & Snivels should go HERE (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?49744-The-aboutime-and-Gunny-Snivel-Thread&p=735589#post735589)

[Gunny]

All Whines & Snivels should go HERE (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?49744-The-aboutime-and-Gunny-Snivel-Thread&p=735589#post735589)

You got a theme, dontcha?

[LongTermGuy]

Several folks on here made comments about "lack of moderation". Mostly stemming from last nights issue, but I've been told a few peeps from others in the past few months.

So fine, if it's the community that is angry and wants change, I'll give you guys an opportunity to make that decision. Be careful what you wish for.

-----

Folks are angry because someone attacked another person's religion, or that person's use of that religion, or that person directly because of religion. Another time was when someone was called a name. The other issues aren't even worth mentioning, but the end goal would be the same.

If we do this - then we should also reel in attacks on Islam. And if someone like Jafar should come to this board, folks need to not attack him or his religion. If deemed 'personal' towards that person, action will be taken.

Someone like "Gnostic", who continually bashes christianity, we would take action there too. Same with an atheist, of which we have a few. I've seen attacks on ALL religions, and many of them lead towards condemning the "follower" in some manner.

As for calling folks names, yikes! VERY few here can make a claim of never calling another a name here, or never provoking another. Names and sarcasm come out non-stop when in heated debates, for better or worse.

So we can reel in the attacks on religion, but we MUST do it for EVERYONE. And we can reel in folks being called names they don't care for, but then we MUST enforce equally for all members.

---

So what does the community want? Do you want enforcement across the board of such things? Do you like freedom of speech, at least until someone offends YOU? Do you want us to change from hands off mostly - to heavy handed?


~ "then we should also reel in attacks on Islam." ~

*Just my opinion here....You and many others still call islam a "religion"... Interesting....islam acts like no other Religion....Boggles the mind .....

>Read carefully... 10 points made below.......*This is all I have to say on this matter....




<tbody>
"Ten Obvious Reasons Why
Islam is NOT a Religion of Peace"







#1
18,000 deadly terror attacks (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/) committed explicitly in the name of Islam in just the last ten years. (Other religions combined for perhaps a dozen or so).



#2
Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, had people killed (http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/dead_poets.htm)for insulting him or for criticizing his religion. This included women. Muslims are told to emulate (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/033-qmt.php#033.021) the example of Muhammad.



#3
Muhammad said (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/muslim/001-smt.php#001.0033) in many places that he has been"ordered by Allah to fight men until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger." In the last nine years of his life, he ordered no less than 65 military campaigns to do exactly that.
Muhammad inspired his men to war with the basest of motives, using captured loot (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/048-qmt.php#048.019), sex (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/muslim/008-smt.php#008.3432) and agluttonous paradise (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/056-qmt.php#056.015) as incentives. He beheaded captives (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/abudawud/038-sat.php#038.4390),enslaved children (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/074-sbt.php#008.074.278) and raped women (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/062-sbt.php#007.062.137) captured in battle. Again, Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.




#4
After Muhammad died, the people who lived with him and knew his religion best immediately fell into war with each other.
Fatima, Muhammad's favorite daughter, survived the early years among the unbelievers at Mecca safe and sound, yet died of stress from the persecution of fellow Muslims only six monthsafter her father died. She even miscarried Muhammad's grandchild after having her ribs broken by the man who became the second caliph.
Fatima's husband Ali, who was the second convert to Islam and was raised like a son to Muhammad, fought a civil war against an army raised by Aisha, Muhammad's favorite wife - and one whom he had said was a "perfect woman (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/muslim/031-smt.php#031.5966)." 10,000 Muslims were killed in a single battle waged less than 25 years after Muhammad's death.
Three of the first four Muslim rulers (caliphs) were murdered. All of them were among Muhammad's closest companions. The third caliph was killed by allies of the son of the first (who was murdered by the fifth caliph a few years later, then wrapped in the skin of a dead donkey and burned). The fourth caliph (Ali) was stabbed to death after a bitter dispute with the fifth. The fifth caliph went on to poison one of Muhammad's two favorite grandsons. The other grandson was later beheaded by the sixth caliph.
The infighting and power struggles between Muhammad's family members, closest companions and their children only intensified with time. Within 50 short years of Muhammad's death, even the Kaaba, which had stood for centuries under pagan religion, lay in ruins from internal Muslim war...
And that's just the fate of those within the house of Islam!




#5
Muhammad directed Muslims to wage war on other religions and bring them under submission (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.029) to Islam. Within the first few decades following his death, his Arabian companions invaded and conquered Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist and Zoroastrian lands.A mere 25 years after Muhammad's death, Muslim armies had captured land and people within the borders of over 28 modern countriesoutside of Saudi Arabia.




#6
Muslims continued their Jihad against other religions for 1400 years, checked only by the ability of non-Muslims to defend themselves. To this day, not a week goes by that Islamic fundamentalists do not attempt to kill Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists explicitly in the name of Allah.
None of these other religions are at war with each other.




#7
Islam is the only religion that has to retain its membership by formally threatening to kill anyone who leaves. This is according to the example (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/052-sbt.php#004.052.260) set by Muhammad.



#8
Islam teaches that non-Muslims are less than fully human. Muhammad said that Muslims can be put to death for murder (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/083-sbt.php#009.083.017), but that a Muslim could never (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/083-sbt.php#009.083.050) be put to death for killing a non-Muslim.



#9

The Qur'an never once speaks of Allah's love for non-Muslims, but it speaks of Allah's cruelty toward and hatred of non-Muslims more than 500 times (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/024-hell-and-hate.htm).



#10


"Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!"
(The last words from the cockpit of Flight 93)



</tbody>

[revelarts]

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2009/354/4/c/DA_Stamp___Debate_01_by_tppgraphics.gif


mostly, or at least it shouldn't.

[revelarts]

I agree with your premise. How do I implement it? Assume I'm an idiot when you reply to this.

I'm not sure if your serious or backhanding me here.
I'll PM ya later.

[tailfins]

I'm not sure if your serious or backhanding me here.
I'll PM ya later.

I despise vague instructions. If you can't flowchart it, I won't understand it.

[hjmick]

Fucker...


If you go heavy, I want in... make me a fucking Mod...


Otherwise, leave it the hell alone...


Folks, if you don't have grown up panties, get the hell out. Now.



















And don't come the fuck back.

[gabosaurus]

I despise vague instructions. If you can't flowchart it, I won't understand it.

http://4815162342.canalblog.com/images/winterfist_flowchart.jpg

[Black Diamond]

Fucker...


If you go heavy, I want in... make me a fucking Mod...


Otherwise, leave it the hell alone...


Folks, if you don't have grown up panties, get the hell out. Now.



















And don't come the fuck back.
That's it I am leaving.



And then coming back.

[hjmick]

That's it I am leaving.



And then coming back.

LOL


Leaving to buy some grown up panties I presume...


LOL

[Black Diamond]

LOL


Leaving to buy some grown up panties I presume...


LOL
Have to get to the store before they close :)

[WiccanLiberal]

I've spent a lot of time considering what to do about this. The suggestion V4R had, leaving the board, was given serious consideration. We both belong to other debate sites and enjoy posting there. However there are people here I have come to regard as friends and whose opinions I value. These people deserve better that an abrupt departure. It is also not in my nature to allow small minds to dictate my life. I have been advised to ignore the bullying and aggression. I see some of you don't get the difference in disagreeing with a person's choices and attacking them as inherently evil and morally damaged. I may tell you I think your religion is incorrect in it's theology and mine is right. However, you as a person have a right to believe as you will so long as it makes your life meaningful and worthwhile. There is the difference in how I have been treated and, yes, I resent it. Ignoring a bully will never make them go away. I am not going to use an ignore button. That is asking me to self censor what I understand about the threads here.
There is a member here who has repeatedly violated the rule against personal attacks. He has issue with me because of a core element of who I am and that DOES make it personal. What I intend to do is remain here and speak my truth as I see it. And each and every time the worthless troll makes one of his comments directed at me I will flag it to the moderators and make a record. Why keep a record? Because bullying like this often escalates. I intend to have sufficient information to prove a pattern if this very personal harrassment rises to an actionable level.
There is a black canker at the bottom of this man's soul. Perhaps he intends to make his own evil seem less by imputing ill to others.
To those of you who have had to deal with listening to this, I apologize if I have offended any whom I value. Some of you have taken the time and trouble to communicate with me privately and empathetically. I appreciate that.
And be assured, the witch is here to stay. Right now, I may need to throw some salt at my keyboard and smudge my router to remove all the negativity.

[aboutime]

http://4815162342.canalblog.com/images/winterfist_flowchart.jpg


Only someone familiar with, and expertise at being a real idiot would put an IDIOT flowchart here; based on personal experience, practice, and a general inability to recognize how dumb such a thing is to identify ones-self.
Thank you again Gabby.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I'm open to coaching when the perspective has my best interest in mind. When someone gets angry at me, they get angry with a segment of society. I don't come up with these ideas all by myself, I got many of them from somebody. Many come from trial and error. It's like getting angry at me because you don't like "tails" but when I flip a coin 100 times, but it comes up "tails" 50.

I would go as far to say that insisting that someone embark on a failed course of action is an act of sabotage. I could just imagine some people at an Autism support group meeting saying, "Why yes, I think you should stay alone and unemployed. Just stay depressed instead of finding ways to "rev up" your brain function." Of course, I would call such a participant an idiot and proceed to tell the group to fix what torments them by any legal means necessary.


I'm open to coaching when the perspective has my best interest in mind.

OK, I'LL TAKE THAT BAIT--HERE GOES-

TF, wake the hell up. You have no reason to try to be a crusader and doing so by way of pm 'ing
Wiccan here is a damn big , no/no IMHO.
This being in the lounge I'll be civil to you-at least as much as I can.
You made your case and your objections known --so shut the hell up and stop stalking.
Nobody here hangs on your every word and some of the crazy shat you vomit here is stupidity on parade IMHO.
LIVE AND LET LIVE. SHE IS NICE TO EVERYBODY-DOESN'T TRY TO CONVERT YOUR DIM-ASS -SO CHILL DUDE!
You are one damn messed up dude IMHO..-Tyr

[Voted4Reagan]

I left it up to my far better and more eloquent half to make this call... and it was not an easy one to make I assure you.

Since the day we arrived here together several years ago in 2012 she has been attacked by one individual in particular. He stalks her threads, attacks her beliefs and insults her at every turn.

Why does he do this? He blames his "Condition" ... Lets just call a spade a spade here...

He has fucking Asperger's syndrome and does nothing to control it. There is a reason that I have zero tolerance for this... My better half worked for many years with someone with exactly the same "Condition" with one major exception... The individual went to Therapy to help himself recognize the problem and to learn proper socialization skills. The individual we have here uses the board as a test bed for his social experiments and does NOTHING to respect the boundaries of other. The individual here on the board goes out of his way to be provocative and insulting, the person that Wiccan worked with went out of his way to seek the help he needed to make sure he never insulted anyone.

This is why I do not accept the excuse that his CONDITION is to blame. Wiccan's friend held a high level position ant one of the best medical institutions in NYC. Both his Children are similarly afflicted but follow their Fathers example. They are both high powered white collar professionals and both have Asperger's. They make sure everything they say and do reflects well on them and allows them to be socially and professionally acceptable. The Father retired 2 years ago after 30 years at that one job. His kids have both been employed almost 20 years each at their professions.

The individual here brags of 70+ jobs in how many years, always being released and having to interview over and over again. once again... exactly the opposite of the people we know.

So that is why I refuse to accept this persons CONDITION as an excuse... I know people far more afflicted with the same condition... They just choose to better themselves instead of deluding themselves that they can fix themselves by talking on a message board and running tests.

In real life I doubt this individual would utter a word to me.. He is weak, cowardly, awkward, has no courage of his convictions and would shy away from the almost 6'3" 265lb bald guy in front of him.

I refuse to accept his excuses and I refuse to censor what I see here. If there is going to be censorship it will come from HIM, I openly dare and defy him to NOT REPLY to any thread that Wiccan posts. Leave her the hell alone. Keep your anti-pagan sentiments to your damn self. Stop stalking her threads like a fucking obsessed creeper.

I had an "ASPIE" who made fun of me and called me an OLD MAN on another board I belong to.. He constantly made fun of me and one day at a gathering... guess who was there... The little 5'2" tough guy who lives in his Mommy's basement and looks like he never see's the sunlight. I walked up to him and said right to his smart-assed face, "Damn Stuart.... I never realized how small you are, You really are Little Stuart...."

He runs away now when he sees me...

So I will not be going anywhere... My father taught me to fight and fight I will.. and since he was a Marine, Gunny will tell you how they fight.... TO WIN and by whatever means possible...

I will not give Tailfins the fucking satisfaction of silencing me... if anything it has doubled my resolve...

Think before you speak Fins... I am not politically correct and dont care about your Condition. You are well enough to poke at me so by that logic you are well enough to handle the consequences..

[tailfins]

OK, I'LL TAKE THAT BAIT--HERE GOES-

TF, wake the hell up. You have no reason to try to be a crusader and doing so by way of pm 'ing
Wiccan here is a damn big , no/no IMHO.
This being in the lounge I'll be civil to you-at least as much as I can.
You made your case and your objections known --so shut the hell up and stop stalking.
Nobody here hangs on your every word and some of the crazy shat you vomit here is stupidity on parade IMHO.
LIVE AND LET LIVE. SHE IS NICE TO EVERYBODY-DOESN'T TRY TO CONVERT YOUR DIM-ASS -SO CHILL DUDE!
You are one damn messed up dude IMHO..-Tyr

Fair enough. All I ask is I get credit for making a reasonable effort.

[Gunny]

I left it up to my far better and more eloquent half to make this call... and it was not an easy one to make I assure you.

Since the day we arrived here together several years ago in 2012 she has been attacked by one individual in particular. He stalks her threads, attacks her beliefs and insults her at every turn.

Why does he do this? He blames his "Condition" ... Lets just call a spade a spade here...

He has fucking Asperger's syndrome and does nothing to control it. There is a reason that I have zero tolerance for this... My better half worked for many years with someone with exactly the same "Condition" with one major exception... The individual went to Therapy to help himself recognize the problem and to learn proper socialization skills. The individual we have here uses the board as a test bed for his social experiments and does NOTHING to respect the boundaries of other. The individual here on the board goes out of his way to be provocative and insulting, the person that Wiccan worked with went out of his way to seek the help he needed to make sure he never insulted anyone.

This is why I do not accept the excuse that his CONDITION is to blame. Wiccan's friend held a high level position ant one of the best medical institutions in NYC. Both his Children are similarly afflicted but follow their Fathers example. They are both high powered white collar professionals and both have Asperger's. They make sure everything they say and do reflects well on them and allows them to be socially and professionally acceptable. The Father retired 2 years ago after 30 years at that one job. His kids have both been employed almost 20 years each at their professions.

The individual here brags of 70+ jobs in how many years, always being released and having to interview over and over again. once again... exactly the opposite of the people we know.

So that is why I refuse to accept this persons CONDITION as an excuse... I know people far more afflicted with the same condition... They just choose to better themselves instead of deluding themselves that they can fix themselves by talking on a message board and running tests.

In real life I doubt this individual would utter a word to me.. He is weak, cowardly, awkward, has no courage of his convictions and would shy away from the almost 6'3" 265lb bald guy in front of him.

I refuse to accept his excuses and I refuse to censor what I see here. If there is going to be censorship it will come from HIM, I openly dare and defy him to NOT REPLY to any thread that Wiccan posts. Leave her the hell alone. Keep your anti-pagan sentiments to your damn self. Stop stalking her threads like a fucking obsessed creeper.

I had an "ASPIE" who made fun of me and called me an OLD MAN on another board I belong to.. He constantly made fun of me and one day at a gathering... guess who was there... The little 5'2" tough guy who lives in his Mommy's basement and looks like he never see's the sunlight. I walked up to him and said right to his smart-assed face, "Damn Stuart.... I never realized how small you are, You really are Little Stuart...."

He runs away now when he sees me...

So I will not be going anywhere... My father taught me to fight and fight I will.. and since he was a Marine, Gunny will tell you how they fight.... TO WIN and by whatever means possible...

I will not give Tailfins the fucking satisfaction of silencing me... if anything it has doubled my resolve...

Think before you speak Fins... I am not politically correct and dont care about your Condition. You are well enough to poke at me so by that logic you are well enough to handle the consequences..

I just had to laugh. Believe it or not, *I* AM the eloquent one of us. :laugh: You get into with shadow and I'm just running to safe corner. You're on your own. :laugh:

ANd yeah, excuses don't change a thing. I like wiccan. She's always polite and nice. I haven't bothered to worry myself with her beliefs.

[indago]

Fair enough. All I ask is I get credit for making a reasonable effort.

I'll give you one credit...

[tailfins]

I left it up to my far better and more eloquent half to make this call... and it was not an easy one to make I assure you.

Since the day we arrived here together several years ago in 2012 she has been attacked by one individual in particular. He stalks her threads, attacks her beliefs and insults her at every turn.

Why does he do this? He blames his "Condition" ... Lets just call a spade a spade here...

He has fucking Asperger's syndrome and does nothing to control it. There is a reason that I have zero tolerance for this... My better half worked for many years with someone with exactly the same "Condition" with one major exception... The individual went to Therapy to help himself recognize the problem and to learn proper socialization skills. The individual we have here uses the board as a test bed for his social experiments and does NOTHING to respect the boundaries of other. The individual here on the board goes out of his way to be provocative and insulting, the person that Wiccan worked with went out of his way to seek the help he needed to make sure he never insulted anyone.

This is why I do not accept the excuse that his CONDITION is to blame. Wiccan's friend held a high level position ant one of the best medical institutions in NYC. Both his Children are similarly afflicted but follow their Fathers example. They are both high powered white collar professionals and both have Asperger's. They make sure everything they say and do reflects well on them and allows them to be socially and professionally acceptable. The Father retired 2 years ago after 30 years at that one job. His kids have both been employed almost 20 years each at their professions.

The individual here brags of 70+ jobs in how many years, always being released and having to interview over and over again. once again... exactly the opposite of the people we know.

So that is why I refuse to accept this persons CONDITION as an excuse... I know people far more afflicted with the same condition... They just choose to better themselves instead of deluding themselves that they can fix themselves by talking on a message board and running tests.

In real life I doubt this individual would utter a word to me.. He is weak, cowardly, awkward, has no courage of his convictions and would shy away from the almost 6'3" 265lb bald guy in front of him.

I refuse to accept his excuses and I refuse to censor what I see here. If there is going to be censorship it will come from HIM, I openly dare and defy him to NOT REPLY to any thread that Wiccan posts. Leave her the hell alone. Keep your anti-pagan sentiments to your damn self. Stop stalking her threads like a fucking obsessed creeper.

I had an "ASPIE" who made fun of me and called me an OLD MAN on another board I belong to.. He constantly made fun of me and one day at a gathering... guess who was there... The little 5'2" tough guy who lives in his Mommy's basement and looks like he never see's the sunlight. I walked up to him and said right to his smart-assed face, "Damn Stuart.... I never realized how small you are, You really are Little Stuart...."

He runs away now when he sees me...

So I will not be going anywhere... My father taught me to fight and fight I will.. and since he was a Marine, Gunny will tell you how they fight.... TO WIN and by whatever means possible...

I will not give Tailfins the fucking satisfaction of silencing me... if anything it has doubled my resolve...

Think before you speak Fins... I am not politically correct and dont care about your Condition. You are well enough to poke at me so by that logic you are well enough to handle the consequences..

I'm willing to work with you if you're willing to work with me. My beliefs are what they are, those are not open to negotiation, but how they are expressed is. I don't pay a whole lot of attention to WHO expresses an idea, just the idea itself. Religious matters are a topic I have strong opinions about, irrespective of who posts them. I'm not out to silence you. I give serious consideration to your ideas (but not insults) and that will always be the case. If you reply with my best interests in mind, I will take your post seriously and even make some attempt to implement it.

Let me explain my intention when I inform someone about Aspergers: It means social skills are hard work. It's just information of what reasonable expectations are. If you expect something beyond my ability, it's you that will be frustrated.

What consequences are there really? If someone isn't willing to work with me, they are not worth my bother.

If we met in real life, I would just greet you. I might ask if I was what you expected. I would assume you're smart enough not to commit an illegal act.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I'll give you one credit...

ME, I give him half of a potato chip found under the coach this morn while Riza was cleaning. :laugh:
Like the prostitute said to the John that promised her more than she could handle-
"Promises, promises and promises- I charge the same no matter how many times I laugh at that lie." :laugh:
-Tyr

[tailfins]

ME, I give him half of a potato chip found under the coach this morn while Riza was cleaning. :laugh:
Like the prostitute said to the John that promised her more than she could handle-
"Promises, promises and promises- I charge the same no matter how many times I laugh at that lie." :laugh:
-Tyr

It seems like interacting with you is not a good deal. You don't really touch on topics that interest me anyway. Someone that touches on topics I care about is more interesting, even if in opposition.

[Gunny]

Fair enough. All I ask is I get credit for making a reasonable effort.

To do WHAT? Ridicule something you probably don't understand just because it isn't YOUR belief? Wiccans have been around longer that Christians and it's always people like you trying to destroy what they can't understand. They're mostly Celtic, which began as Vikings. That means they predate Christianity. They ain't green and don't ride on brooms.

My idea of a reasonable effort is understanding something before you attack it. Here's a plan: LET IT THE FUCK GO.

[Gunny]

It seems like interacting with you is not a good deal. You don't really touch on topics that interest me anyway. Someone that touches on topics I care about is more interesting, even if in opposition.

Why don't you just relax? THERE is a topic. This reminds me of that Avengers movie ... let's see ... you're managing to piss off every one of us. Try addressing what you can and not attacking what you can't.

[Voted4Reagan]

I just had to laugh. Believe it or not, *I* AM the eloquent one of us. :laugh: You get into with shadow and I'm just running to safe corner. You're on your own. :laugh:

ANd yeah, excuses don't change a thing. I like wiccan. She's always polite and nice. I haven't bothered to worry myself with her beliefs.

You'd have liked Wiccan's Father... Joined the Navy in 1943 and retired in 1963 but spent 20yrs in reserves...

The two of you would have had epic discussions about how Leathernecks are better than Squids... and Vice Versa.

[tailfins]

To do WHAT? Ridicule something you probably don't understand just because it isn't YOUR belief? Wiccans have been around longer that Christians and it's always people like you trying to destroy what they can't understand. They're mostly Celtic, which began as Vikings. That means they predate Christianity. They ain't green and don't ride on brooms.

My idea of a reasonable effort is understanding something before you attack it. Here's a plan: LET IT THE FUCK GO.

What REALLY sends chills up my spine is anything that attracts those 1/3 of the former angels that rebelled to serve Satan. My oldest son asked me a very interesting question: Was the American Revolution a Satanic act? He referred to the verse below. I was stumped. I however liked the question because it required a lot of thought. I think I will post that question on a higher traffic message board. I would like to see lots of responses to that hypothesis.

1 Samuel 15:23King James Version (KJV)23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

[Voted4Reagan]

I'm willing to work with you if you're willing to work with me. My beliefs are what they are, those are not open to negotiation, but how they are expressed is. I don't pay a whole lot of attention to WHO expresses an idea, just the idea itself. Religious matters are a topic I have strong opinions about, irrespective of who posts them. I'm not out to silence you. I give serious consideration to your ideas (but not insults) and that will always be the case. If you reply with my best interests in mind, I will take your post seriously and even make some attempt to implement it.

Let me explain my intention when I inform someone about Aspergers: It means social skills are hard work. It's just information of what reasonable expectations are. If you expect something beyond my ability, it's you that will be frustrated.

What consequences are there really? If someone isn't willing to work with me, they are not worth my bother.

If we met in real life, I would just greet you. I might ask if I was what you expected. I would assume you're smart enough not to commit an illegal act.

Don't care... you're on warning... Leave Wiccan Alone.... That should be your focus... not sucking up now that you've pissed people off.

As for committing illegal acts - Stalking people on their postings on Message boards and harassing them for their beliefs is actionable CRIMINALLY and is a Misdemeanor here in NY... in many states it is a felony and a violation of federal law.

You have been warned... cease your harassment of Wiccan... you only get one warning.

[DLT]

http://4815162342.canalblog.com/images/winterfist_flowchart.jpg

LMAO! Ok....now that's just funny.

[Perianne]

LMAO! Ok....now that's just funny.

Gabosaurus is often funny. But not as funny as Perianne! ;)

[Voted4Reagan]

A person is guilty of aggravated harassment in the second degree when, with intent to harass, annoy, threaten or alarm another person, he or she: 1. Either (a) communicates with a person, anonymously or otherwise, by telephone, by telegraph, or by mail, or by transmitting or delivering any other form of written communication, in a manner likely to cause annoyance or alarm; or (b) causes a communication to be initiated by mechanical or electronic means or otherwise with a person, anonymously or otherwise, by telephone, by telegraph, or by mail, or by transmitting or delivering any other form of written communication, in a manner likely to cause annoyance or alarm; or 2. Makes a telephone call, whether or not a conversation ensues, with no purpose of legitimate communication; or 3. Strikes, shoves, kicks, or otherwise subjects another person to physical contact, or attempts or threatens to do the same because of a belief or perception regarding such person's race, color, national origin, ancestry, gender, religion, religious practice, age, disability or sexual orientation, regardless of whether the belief or perception is correct; or 4. Commits the crime of harassment in the first degree and has previously been convicted of the crime of harassment in the first degree as defined by section 240.25 of this article within the preceding ten years. 5. For the purposes of subdivision one of this section, "form of written communication" shall include, but not be limited to, a recording as defined in subdivision six of section 275.00 of this part. Aggravated harassment in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.

[DLT]

I left it up to my far better and more eloquent half to make this call... and it was not an easy one to make I assure you.

Since the day we arrived here together several years ago in 2012 she has been attacked by one individual in particular. He stalks her threads, attacks her beliefs and insults her at every turn.

Why does he do this? He blames his "Condition" ... Lets just call a spade a spade here...

He has fucking Asperger's syndrome and does nothing to control it. There is a reason that I have zero tolerance for this... My better half worked for many years with someone with exactly the same "Condition" with one major exception... The individual went to Therapy to help himself recognize the problem and to learn proper socialization skills. The individual we have here uses the board as a test bed for his social experiments and does NOTHING to respect the boundaries of other. The individual here on the board goes out of his way to be provocative and insulting, the person that Wiccan worked with went out of his way to seek the help he needed to make sure he never insulted anyone.

This is why I do not accept the excuse that his CONDITION is to blame. Wiccan's friend held a high level position ant one of the best medical institutions in NYC. Both his Children are similarly afflicted but follow their Fathers example. They are both high powered white collar professionals and both have Asperger's. They make sure everything they say and do reflects well on them and allows them to be socially and professionally acceptable. The Father retired 2 years ago after 30 years at that one job. His kids have both been employed almost 20 years each at their professions.

The individual here brags of 70+ jobs in how many years, always being released and having to interview over and over again. once again... exactly the opposite of the people we know.

So that is why I refuse to accept this persons CONDITION as an excuse... I know people far more afflicted with the same condition... They just choose to better themselves instead of deluding themselves that they can fix themselves by talking on a message board and running tests.

In real life I doubt this individual would utter a word to me.. He is weak, cowardly, awkward, has no courage of his convictions and would shy away from the almost 6'3" 265lb bald guy in front of him.

I refuse to accept his excuses and I refuse to censor what I see here. If there is going to be censorship it will come from HIM, I openly dare and defy him to NOT REPLY to any thread that Wiccan posts. Leave her the hell alone. Keep your anti-pagan sentiments to your damn self. Stop stalking her threads like a fucking obsessed creeper.

I had an "ASPIE" who made fun of me and called me an OLD MAN on another board I belong to.. He constantly made fun of me and one day at a gathering... guess who was there... The little 5'2" tough guy who lives in his Mommy's basement and looks like he never see's the sunlight. I walked up to him and said right to his smart-assed face, "Damn Stuart.... I never realized how small you are, You really are Little Stuart...."

He runs away now when he sees me...

So I will not be going anywhere... My father taught me to fight and fight I will.. and since he was a Marine, Gunny will tell you how they fight.... TO WIN and by whatever means possible...

I will not give Tailfins the fucking satisfaction of silencing me... if anything it has doubled my resolve...

Think before you speak Fins... I am not politically correct and dont care about your Condition. You are well enough to poke at me so by that logic you are well enough to handle the consequences..

I have an idea. How about posting a quote of every offensive comment that you guys take offense to in the Steel Cage under a thread for just that? That way others can take a look and judge or decide for themselves. Right now, I honestly haven't seen any posts that are offensive, abusive or stalking here. But I don't have the time to read everything.

At the fray there was a room called "Shameful Conduct" where fraysters could post links to such abuse. That was what the room was for, links and discussion about trolls, aholes and abusive conduct. If not for that, most of the members/posters would never know about most of it, since most didn't participate in the offending threads.

Just a suggestion.

[DLT]

Gabosaurus is often funny. But not as funny as Perianne! ;)

Lol....every now and then...just the perfect graphic re: the discussion is posted. Timing is everything!

[tailfins]

I have an idea. How about posting a quote of every offensive comment that you guys take offense to in the Steel Cage under a thread for just that? That way others can take a look and judge or decide for themselves. Right now, I honestly haven't seen any posts that are offensive, abusive or stalking here. But I don't have the time to read everything.

At the fray there was a room called "Shameful Conduct" where fraysters could post links to such abuse. That was what the room was for, links and discussion about trolls, aholes and abusive conduct. If not for that, most of the members/posters would never know about most of it, since most didn't participate in the offending threads.

Just a suggestion.

I'm here to learn, not fight. I tried the no-holds-barred thing in the Steel Cage. I've been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. After having tried it, it's just not interesting any more.

[gabosaurus]

Fair enough. All I ask is I get credit for making a reasonable effort.

If you ever make a reasonable effort, I will give you credit. :p

[tailfins]

If you ever make a reasonable effort, I will give you credit. :p

What's your idea of a reasonable effort?

[Gunny]

I'm here to learn, not fight. I tried the no-holds-barred thing in the Steel Cage. I've been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. After having tried it, it's just not interesting any more.

Then listen and learn. Wiccans have something to offer.

[gabosaurus]

I've been there, done that, bought the T-shirt.

http://image2.spreadshirtmedia.com/image-server/v1/products/1001941039/views/1,width=378,height=378,appearanceId=1/I-Have-No-Idea-What-I-m-Doing-T-Shirts.png

[tailfins]

http://image2.spreadshirtmedia.com/image-server/v1/products/1001941039/views/1,width=378,height=378,appearanceId=1/I-Have-No-Idea-What-I-m-Doing-T-Shirts.png

Even I think that's funny.

[gabosaurus]

tailfins you need to get this shirt for your kids:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/514Pt%2B%2Bt2KL._UX385_.jpg

[fj1200]

I despise vague instructions. If you can't flowchart it, I won't understand it.

A flowchart:

Did anyone proselytize witchcraft?


Yes -> Give it the tailfins treatment

No -> Ignore it and move on

[fj1200]

A person is guilty of aggravated harassment in the second degree when, with intent to harass, annoy, threaten or alarm another person, he or she: 1. Either (a) communicates with a person, anonymously or otherwise, by telephone, by telegraph, or by mail, or by transmitting or delivering any other form of written communication, in a manner likely to cause annoyance or alarm; or (b) causes a communication to be initiated by mechanical or electronic means or otherwise with a person, anonymously or otherwise, by telephone, by telegraph, or by mail, or by transmitting or delivering any other form of written communication, in a manner likely to cause annoyance or alarm; or 2. Makes a telephone call, whether or not a conversation ensues, with no purpose of legitimate communication; or 3. Strikes, shoves, kicks, or otherwise subjects another person to physical contact, or attempts or threatens to do the same because of a belief or perception regarding such person's race, color, national origin, ancestry, gender, religion, religious practice, age, disability or sexual orientation, regardless of whether the belief or perception is correct; or 4. Commits the crime of harassment in the first degree and has previously been convicted of the crime of harassment in the first degree as defined by section 240.25 of this article within the preceding ten years. 5. For the purposes of subdivision one of this section, "form of written communication" shall include, but not be limited to, a recording as defined in subdivision six of section 275.00 of this part. Aggravated harassment in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.

:laugh:

[indago]

I have an idea. How about posting a quote of every offensive comment that you guys take offense to in the Steel Cage under a thread for just that?

Yes, they could post them all HERE (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?49744-The-aboutime-and-Gunny-Snivel-Thread&p=735589#post735589)

[Gunny]

A flowchart:

Did anyone proselytize witchcraft?

Yes -> Give it the tailfins treatment

No -> Ignore it and move on


Point is, there are people you go after and people you don't. And you learn about those people BEFORE you start running your mouth. You and I usually go after each other half the time tongue in cheek and other times we go at it but we each know where to draw a line. Have the same relationship with quite a few people here and they with me. The ones that can't or don't know where to draw the line I just stay away from.

If I made a list of personal traits I didn't like about each person that posts here I'd probably be more insane than I am from babysitting. And I'm more than sure that goes both ways.

But again, I just see Jimmy in the middle simply because I've been there. You want freedom of speech or more rules? I say TF heads on down to the cage and takes on v4r and the rest of the rules remain the same. I will watch. :)

And I ain't kissin Jim's ass. THAT'LL be the fucking day. I just understand his position. We don't need new rules here. We need the people here tto accept the ones we have, and some to apply common sense to them.

[fj1200]

Point is, there are people you go after and people you don't. And you learn about those people BEFORE you start running your mouth. You and I usually go after each other half the time tongue in cheek and other times we go at it but we each know where to draw a line. Have the same relationship with quite a few people here and they with me. The ones that can't or don't know where to draw the line I just stay away from.

All of that was spot on (even what I didn't quote. :eek: ) except I like to push a little beyond the line, you don't learn anything if you know what the response will be. :)

[Gunny]

All of that was spot on (even what I didn't quote. :eek: ) except I like to push a little beyond the line, you don't learn anything if you know what the response will be. :)

It's how you go about it. You question people to death. That's not the same as charging in and being a bull in a china shop. And I'm calling bullshit. You get under the skin of those you know you can, expecting a certain response, then you like to play cat and mouse.

Everyone believes certain things. Doesn't mean they need to crap all over everyone else.

[DLT]

yes, they could post them all here (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?49744-the-aboutime-and-gunny-snivel-thread&p=735589#post735589)

lol!

[fj1200]

It's how you go about it. You question people to death. That's not the same as charging in and being a bull in a china shop. And I'm calling bullshit. You get under the skin of those you know you can, expecting a certain response, then you like to play cat and mouse.

Everyone believes certain things. Doesn't mean they need to crap all over everyone else.

How do you expect me to find out anything new? Sorry that was a question. :scared: But really, I don't learn new information by hearing the same people repeat the same things to each other over and over. I don't particularly care what you believe but I want to know why you believe it. The best way to do that is ask questions. If a few questions get under anyone's skin then their skin should be a little thicker. :)

[Gunny]

How do you expect me to find out anything new? Sorry that was a question. :scared: But really, I don't learn new information by hearing the same people repeat the same things to each other over and over. I don't particularly care what you believe but I want to know why you believe it. The best way to do that is ask questions. If a few questions get under anyone's skin then their skin should be a little thicker. :)

Finding out something new and trying to play cat and mouse are NOT the same things and YOU know it. I like to know "why" too. But I usually choose people to ask in a nice way rather than people I know get pissed just because I log on. I also don't just picl the same people who have already made up their minds I'm someone I'm not. You ain't going to learn shit.

[hjmick]

Well, I'm not a Mod yet so I guess Jim decided to leave things as is...



Good call.

[fj1200]

Finding out something new and trying to play cat and mouse are NOT the same things and YOU know it. I like to know "why" too. But I usually choose people to ask in a nice way rather than people I know get pissed just because I log on. I also don't just picl the same people who have already made up their minds I'm someone I'm not. You ain't going to learn shit.

I don't play cat and mouse. Ask me a question and I'll answer it (presuming I don't disagree with the premise), some folks just don't want to think about it. ;)

[Abbey Marie]

How do you expect me to find out anything new? Sorry that was a question. :scared: But really, I don't learn new information by hearing the same people repeat the same things to each other over and over. I don't particularly care what you believe but I want to know why you believe it. The best way to do that is ask questions. If a few questions get under anyone's skin then their skin should be a little thicker. :)


Actually, the best way is to read up on a topic yourself, and present your findings to us. :coffee:

[Drummond]

There is no such thing as complete freedom of speech .. there simply isn't.

With freedom, comes responsibility. Each of us as individuals holds responsibility for what we say and do. On a public forum .. there have to be rules, AND the willingness to enforce them, for the good of the debating environment that's involved. More .. there has to be a certain minimal (.. at least !! ..) decency on forums, otherwise they ultimately go into meltdown .. be it from the sheer content observed, or, the reputation the Board in question may earn .. if it lets itself earn it.

Many of us, I think, have experience of forums other than this one. We have an idea of what makes a 'good' board, and what doesn't .. because of the conduct permitted and observed in each. That's just fact. Judgements may be subjective, but, judgements are nonetheless possible, because, boards like this one MUST appear creditable in others' eyes.

For myself, my first experience of an American forum was one where Moderation was just about nonexistent. Trolls invaded it, were not moderated, and so the debating atmosphere became totally poisoned. Members, myself included, left it in droves.

Since then, the forum in question has toughened up, and so maintains a stability it lacked before.

So, active Moderation DOES matter, and MUST happen.

Forums such as this need to be definable. Are they Left wing, Right wing, maybe neutral, but intolerant of abuse ? Are they so dedicated to freedom of speech that anyone abusing it can get away with it ?

Is libel permissible, for example, without fear of censure intervening ?

Are those with a poisonous anti-American agenda (e.g Muslim activists who oppose foundling American values) able, without censure, to use forums as platforms for their poison ? Is this a good or a bad thing, and if bad, what must be done as a remedy ?

Forums like this need to have policy, and a definable 'shape' to them, it seems to me. Otherwise, chaos rules.

And .. I can't be told that those running this forum don't get at least SOMETHING of what I'm saying .. otherwise, how does anybody ever judge who, or what, goes to the Steel Cage ? How come anyone ever came up with the idea to have one here ??

[tailfins]

Actually, the best way is to read up on a topic yourself, and present your findings to us. :coffee:

Rather then regurgitate stuff from other sources, I prefer that people attempt things themselves and present the findings. Abbey: How hard can you hit your thumb with a hammer before it hurts? :laugh:

[Abbey Marie]

Rather then regurgitate stuff from other sources, I prefer that people attempt things themselves and present the findings. Abbey: How hard can you hit your thumb with a hammer before it hurts? :laugh:

I was proposing that as opposed to just constantly questioning others. I like a combination of debate and information. Not sure what the hammer reference means?

[tailfins]

I was proposing that as opposed to just constantly questioning others. I like a combination of debate and information. Not sure what the hammer reference means?

A dumb thing anyone can do at home and post the results.

[fj1200]

Actually, the best way is to read up on a topic yourself, and present your findings to us. :coffee:

Faulty premise. Who says I don't read up on topics? Nevertheless that still doesn't tell me what YOU think.


I was proposing that as opposed to just constantly questioning others. I like a combination of debate and information. Not sure what the hammer reference means?

Are you still under the impression that debate happens around here? :poke:

[jimnyc]

There is no "chaos" here. There is no "libel" here. If anyone thinks otherwise, doesn't like it here for one reason or another, has an issue with the way things are ran - the exit door is all the way at the top of the board and to the right.

I love how folks know what the boards needs, and what it doesn't need. :) I guess that's why some take their ball and leave - only to return. :laugh:

Oh, and libel, in a legal sense - not even remotely close to happening. And funny as well, since the libelous words spoken to one, that person uses to "libel" others with.

[tailfins]

There is no "chaos" here. There is no "libel" here. If anyone thinks otherwise, doesn't like it here for one reason or another, has an issue with the way things are ran - the exit door is all the way at the top of the board and to the right.

I love how folks know what the boards needs, and what it doesn't need. :) I guess that's why some take their ball and leave - only to return. :laugh:

Oh, and libel, in a legal sense - not even remotely close to happening. And funny as well, since the libelous words spoken to one, that person uses to "libel" others with.

If you were served with a civil subpoena with divulge the identity or other information about a user, what would you do? You obviously have no liability, the liability is solely with the poster. Look at the owner of RipoffReport.com if you want an example.

[jimnyc]

If you were served with a civil subpoena with divulge the identity or other information about a user, what would you do? You obviously have no liability, the liability is solely with the poster. Look at the owner of RipoffReport.com if you want an example.

Well, I couldn't divulge the identity if I wanted to. And that's the thing with "libel", as no one really knows one another on here. And one would need to quantify real life damages.

But to divulge an IP address? I wouldn't divulge anything short of a court order. But if a court orders it, I suppose I wouldn't have much of a choice. But a court is not going to order something like that without a verifiable crime taking place.

[Gunny]

If you were served with a civil subpoena with divulge the identity or other information about a user, what would you do? You obviously have no liability, the liability is solely with the poster. Look at the owner of RipoffReport.com if you want an example.

Dumb question. They can find THAT out without a subpoena. That's low-level cheesedick sh*t. High tech either hack in, or they got to the service provider.

Jim's a belligerent ass when he gets around to it. If they subpoena him I'm bringing the Dunkin Donuts coffee for him. And my cell so I can film. :laugh:

[Drummond]

There is no "chaos" here. There is no "libel" here. If anyone thinks otherwise, doesn't like it here for one reason or another, has an issue with the way things are ran - the exit door is all the way at the top of the board and to the right.

I love how folks know what the boards needs, and what it doesn't need. :) I guess that's why some take their ball and leave - only to return. :laugh:

Oh, and libel, in a legal sense - not even remotely close to happening. And funny as well, since the libelous words spoken to one, that person uses to "libel" others with.

So, despite how this thread started out, you're actually not listening. It's a pity.

I did leave. And, I did return. I returned because there were people here who wanted me to return, and I listened.

Listening is what I do.

[jimnyc]

So, despite how this thread started out, you're actually not listening. It's a pity.

I did leave. And, I did return. I returned because there were people here who wanted me to return, and I listened.

Listening is what I do.

I've listened quite well. I always do. The community can vouch for the fact that I have made MANY changes over the years based on feedback. There is nothing in this thread that I haven't listened to. The fact is though, there is no chaos here, and I simply pointed that out. No libel took place, and I pointed that out.

So what is it you feel I am not listening to?

[Gunny]

So, despite how this thread started out, you're actually not listening. It's a pity.

I did leave. And, I did return. I returned because there were people here who wanted me to return, and I listened.

Listening is what I do.

I hate to jump in on Jim's side twice in one week. Probably going to break out in a rash or some other civilian bullshit disease.

You can't put him between a rock and a hard place because he doesn't take a side. That'll make more members than just you leave, and give the board a reputation. "Jim's on the side of so-n-so". He's more than fair and more tolerant than I was. I wouldn't allow this kind of crap on my board. It does nothing but disrupt everyone. Take it to a PM. He's NOT wrong here and he's probably biting his lip.

Glad you came back. I like you. The rules ain't always my best friend either and I've been banned from here. But they are what they are, and I been around a few places over the years. RUn a couple. And this is where I've landed. There is room for everyone here. Plenty. And this is one of the fairest boards I've come across.

[Drummond]

I've listened quite well. I always do. The community can vouch for the fact that I have made MANY changes over the years based on feedback. There is nothing in this thread that I haven't listened to. The fact is though, there is no chaos here, and I simply pointed that out. No libel took place, and I pointed that out.

So what is it you feel I am not listening to?

I think you already know my views. And what justifies them.

I could rehash them. Here, or at PM level ?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

So, despite how this thread started out, you're actually not listening. It's a pity.

I did leave. And, I did return. I returned because there were people here who wanted me to return, and I listened.

Listening is what I do.

My friend, as we say in America--"being between a rock and a hard place is a damn bad place to be.
But its Jim's forum and there he sits! However, libel laws in USA are quite different than they are in Britain.
And you are correct!! Pure AND unadulterated freedom of speech exists nowhere that I am aware of!-TYR

[Elessar]

If we have to heavy-moderate every religious disagreement, I want $50/hr!

:laugh2:

For the record, I did not even see a personal attack in that thread. Which is to say, even if you changed the rules, I would not have moderated it.

Religion is worse than politics on a board.

That is because feelings and spiritual beliefs are being played with.

Unless they are some crazed Jahidist, leave them alone.

[Gunny]

I think you already know my views. And what justifies them.

I could rehash them. Here, or at PM level ?

The point is, why? We all have our views and justifications for them. What we don't have a lot of is tolerance for others, nor the appreciation for a position. He's not going to take a side. I wouldn't. Now imagine having both sides of the argument in your inbox demanding the opposition be banned or run off and trying to present yourself as fair. It ain't a fun game to play.

Back on topic, we don't need another damned rule to amend another rule just to satisfy one individual. Anyone wants to fight I think the Steel Cage is available. Take it THERE. What I don't like is a running gun battle all over the board trashing everyone else's stuff that results in more rules and/or censorship. Put your sh*t where it goes.

[jimnyc]

I think you already know my views. And what justifies them.

I could rehash them. Here, or at PM level ?

With all due respect, there's no point in rehashing them. I simply clarified on those 2 issues was all.

[Gunny]

Religion is worse than politics on a board.

That is because feelings and spiritual beliefs are being played with.

Unless they are some crazed Jahidist, leave them alone.

Religion is worse ANYWHERE.

And yeah, I've been know to leave crazed jihadists, atheists and otherwise fruitloops all alone. :laugh::laugh: You just wait for THAT.:laugh:

[Drummond]

I hate to jump in on Jim's side twice in one week. Probably going to break out in a rash or some other civilian bullshit disease.

You can't put him between a rock and a hard place because he doesn't take a side. That'll make more members than just you leave, and give the board a reputation. "Jim's on the side of so-n-so". He's more than fair and more tolerant than I was. I wouldn't allow this kind of crap on my board. It does nothing but disrupt everyone. Take it to a PM. He's NOT wrong here and he's probably biting his lip.

Glad you came back. I like you. The rules ain't always my best friend either and I've been banned from here. But they are what they are, and I been around a few places over the years. RUn a couple. And this is where I've landed. There is room for everyone here. Plenty. And this is one of the fairest boards I've come across.

As I said, I came back because there were people here who wanted me back. I could post elsewhere (in fact, these days, I do).

I'm not asking Jim to 'take a side'. I do not seek any measure of favouritism .. I never have. No, I think that judgements should be made fairly, impartially, with the good of the Board uppermost.

** LATE EDIT: Post seen which causes me to delete part of my commenting here. Status quo acknowledged. **

[Drummond]

With all due respect, there's no point in rehashing them. I simply clarified on those 2 issues was all.

Just seen .. and I agree. You know my views, and we both know how you've reacted to them. Short of your change of mind, no purpose is served by rehashing old ground.

[Gunny]

As I said, I came back because there were people here who wanted me back. I could post elsewhere (in fact, these days, I do).

I'm not asking Jim to 'take a side'. I do not seek any measure of favouritism .. I never have. No, I think that judgements should be made fairly, impartially, with the good of the Board uppermost. And, in all modesty, I believe that if my views had been heeded more closely than they have been, and an approach taken in recognition of them, the interests of DP would have been served by it.

I'll let Jim decide if he wants to enter into a PM exchange (though I've nothing new to say in any case). I actually don't care all that much either way.

I like you here. We may not always agree, but you DO offer a different perspective. Like your spelling of "favouritism". I love that shit. I grew up reading proper English. I basically had to re-learn American English just to pass a spelling test. :laugh: Y'all got that "u" in everything.

The board's fine. We all have our ideas. I ran 2 boards and not exactly like Jim. If I wanted to run my own board my way I'd get one. You have NO idea what a headache it is. I joined to have fun and I wasn't having any fun any more. When it's not fun, what's the point? I didn't even want to log on at the end.

And buddy, Jim and I have been at each other's throats. But I didn't put it out in public on the board.

[Drummond]

My friend, as we say in America--"being between a rock and a hard place is a damn bad place to be.
But its Jim's forum and there he sits! However, libel laws in USA are quite different than they are in Britain.
And you are correct!! Pure AND unadulterated freedom of speech exists nowhere that I am aware of!-TYR

Good post.

Fairly recently, I did some research on differences in libel laws between the US and the UK. I was surprised at the extent of difference.

I was left with the understanding that, in legal terms, my society has altogether less tolerance for libel than yours has. Here .. we have well defined laws, applied uniformly across the UK (though there's a move to 'reform' our laws). In the US, if I recall correctly, only nineteen States have strong laws acting as a censure to libel !! Which is astonishing, to me, anyway ...

I recently found this ..

http://www.senseaboutscience.org/data/files/A_quick_guide_to_libel_laws_in_England_and_Wales.p df


The claimant-friendly nature of our libel laws means that foreign claimants are encouraged to try to take their cases here. A wide jurisdiction means that claimants can initiate cases on the weakest of grounds and over a quarter of High Court libel cases from 2005-2009 had some form of foreign involvement.

In 2010, the US Congress passed the SPEECH Act to ‘protect citizens against foreign libel rulings contrary to US constitution and laws’. This followed a number of libel cases against American writers, including a New York based author who was sued by a Saudi businessman in London, even though only 23 copies of her book were sold in the UK.

So, interestingly, YOU, on your side of the Pond, decided to pass a law to protect US citizens from the more draconian nature of OUR law !

[gabosaurus]

If you were served with a civil subpoena with divulge the identity or other information about a user, what would you do? You obviously have no liability, the liability is solely with the poster. Look at the owner of RipoffReport.com if you want an example.

tailfins, you totally amuse me sometimes. :laugh:
First of all, Jim has no responsibility for anything posted here. It's a message board.
As for posting IP numbers, that would work if someone has a fixed address. For those of us who use proxy servers, a subpoena would do no good at all.

tailfins, my advice to you is to spend more time thinking of something intelligent to post (a challenge, I realize) and less time considering ways to sue people or just being a pain in the tail.

[Gunny]

Good post.

Fairly recently, I did some research on differences in libel laws between the US and the UK. I was surprised at the extent of difference.

I was left with the understanding that, in legal terms, my society has altogether less tolerance for libel than yours has. Here .. we have well defined laws, applied uniformly across the UK (though there's a move to 'reform' our laws). In the US, if I recall correctly, only nineteen States have strong laws acting as a censure to libel !! Which is astonishing, to me, anyway ...

I recently found this ..

http://www.senseaboutscience.org/data/files/A_quick_guide_to_libel_laws_in_England_and_Wales.p df



So, interestingly, YOU, on your side of the Pond, decided to pass a law to protect US citizens from the more draconian nature of OUR law !

Oh everything's open for interpretation around this MF-er. Start with the Clintons and work your way down the chain.

[aboutime]

The one thing everyone often forgets about both Libel, and Slander is....neither are winnable as long as THE TRUTH has been presented, stated, recorded, or viewed. You cannot be sued for telling the TRUTH.

Ask any lawyer.

[jimnyc]

Just seen .. and I agree. You know my views, and we both know how you've reacted to them. Short of your change of mind, no purpose is served by rehashing old ground.

Yes, I disagreed with you. This place is perhaps the least chaotic of all the political message boards that I am aware of and post at. Libel has a specific meaning. In neither country would what took place be called libel. Calling an anonymous person a "liberal" does not rise to that level, not even close. You take these as insults, and refusal to moderate, when they are neither.

[Drummond]

Yes, I disagreed with you. This place is perhaps the least chaotic of all the political message boards that I am aware of and post at. Libel has a specific meaning. In neither country would what took place be called libel. Calling an anonymous person a "liberal" does not rise to that level, not even close. You take these as insults, and refusal to moderate, when they are neither.

Nope.

I was called a 'liberal'. Publicly, for the world to see. The person calling me this had no reason at all to do so, no reason to suppose it could be true AT ALL, but it happened all the same.

It may be that my true name doesn't get broadcast on this forum, but the name 'Drummond' sufficiently identifies me as a person in my own right, posting as one, complete with my own posting history. For the purposes of this forum, I'm identifiable enough for the truth or otherwise of the statement to be discerned.

I have a right to not be publicly libelled.

Jim, I think what we have here is a cultural difference .. as well as a situation which, one day, may bring the board into disrepute (.. though you've so far failed to acknowledge the possibility, and no doubt you'll continue to). Two points: one, libel is evidently thought of as a lot more serious in my country than yours, so much so that other countries have reacted sharply against 'draconian' court awards and judgements which emanate from our own UK judiciary. Two, if it became well known that a specific debating forum takes no action against a Mod who publicly brings a member's reputation into disrepute, I'd say that at minimum you could expect the general public to keep away from it in droves. After all ... why would anyone ever want to accept such treatment, and seek it out ? How would that make the smallest sense ???

However - regardless of this posting, and the extent of sense I'm making, I'm well aware that you don't see any of this in these terms.

Let's just say that I'm exercising freedom of speech by having my view and disseminating it here. I think I have that right.

[jimnyc]

Nope.

I was called a 'liberal'. Publicly, for the world to see. The person calling me this had no reason at all to do so, no reason to suppose it could be true AT ALL, but it happened all the same.

It may be that my true name doesn't get broadcast on this forum, but the name 'Drummond' sufficiently identifies me as a person in my own right, posting as one, complete with my own posting history. For the purposes of this forum, I'm identifiable enough for the truth or otherwise of the statement to be discerned.

I have a right to not be publicly libelled.

We can argue this forever, but you simply weren't libeled. No one that I am aware of could even remotely connect "Drummond" with whomever your real identity is. Regardless, a single word is not libelous anyway. Especially a word like "liberal", on a political website no less. If this were true, 80% of the members of this board, and ALL political boards that I know of, would be being libeled several times daily. I suppose we can just agree to disagree here.

And not for nothing, but you seem to call FJ a liberal all the time, or you used to do it non-stop. Many of us here have stepped in and stated otherwise, even though I really don't care much. Nonetheless, you continued. Perhaps FJ should sue for libel? Not likely, and it would be tossed out of court anyway.


Jim, I think what we have here is a cultural difference .. as well as a situation which, one day, may bring the board into disrepute (.. though you've so far failed to acknowledge the possibility, and no doubt you'll continue to).

I've heard this kind of stuff from members who didn't get their way since 2003. I appreciate your feedback, but I know very well how to run message boards. I acknowledge the possibility, but this is far from such a situation.


Two points: one, libel is evidently thought of as a lot more serious in my country than yours, so much so that other countries have reacted sharply against 'draconian' court awards and judgements which emanate from our own UK judiciary. Two, if it became well known that a specific debating forum takes no action against a Mod who publicly brings a member's reputation into disrepute, I'd say that at minimum you could expect the general public to keep away from it in droves. Why would anyone ever want to accept such treatment, and seek it out ????

This would not be libel in a UK court either, sorry. And libel IS extremely serious here in the USA, and if someone runs afoul, they can be sued for a few bucks and into millions and millions. It's an extremely serious matter, along with slander/defamation.

I've also heard such talk about staff, and members leaving for years and years too. You'll be hard pressed to find more than perhaps one or 2 members here that feel Kathianne was wrong in anyway, let alone acting in a libelous manner. No one is leaving, nor will they. Ask others, see if anyone gives a shit about another member, or even a staff member, daring to call someone a liberal. And "at a minimum"? No offense, but in case you haven't noticed, folks aren't keeping away. Nothing has changed.


However - regardless of this posting, and the extent of sense I'm making, I'm well aware that you don't see any of this in these terms, you refuse to, and that attempts at discussion would achieve nothing. So be it.

It wouldn't achieve nothing as there is nothing to achieve.

Think about it - Do you want me to FORCE SOMEONE TO APOLOGIZE? Remove them from staff? Temporary ban them? FOR WHAT? For daring to call someone a liberal? The VERY SAME THING you do to others or another? Go ahead, create a public poll, ask the "public" you refer to if they think someone should be banned, or removed from staff, if they call someone a liberal. Ask them if they will leave in droves if I don't take action against Kathianne. You think it's me, refusing somehow. If true, you may be surprised when you find out that almost everyone agrees with me.

[jimnyc]

Let's just say that I'm exercising freedom of speech by having my view and disseminating it here. I think I have that right.

Saw this after the fact. And yes, you do have that right while here. Throughout all of this, you've continued to have that right. You've had that right - while saying Kath was wrong for saying what she did - while you enjoyed that right and did the same thing to another.

[hjmick]

Holy shit.


This thread is still alive?

[jimnyc]

Holy shit.


This thread is still alive?

Yes it is, you no good filthy liberal heathen!! :poke:

Man, I'm hungry again. I tried to tell the wife to run out and get Mcdonalds for us, and she politely and indirectly told me to go F myself. :(

[hjmick]

Yes it is, you no good filthy liberal heathen!! :poke:

Man, I'm hungry again. I tried to tell the wife to run out and get Mcdonalds for us, and she politely and indirectly told me to go F myself. :(


At least your wife is awake!



Speaking of which... Did you ever notice that Monday thru Friday you "overslept" but on Saturday and Sunday you "sleep in?"

[indago]

Saw this after the fact. And yes, you do have that right while here. Throughout all of this, you've continued to have that right. You've had that right - while saying Kath was wrong for saying what she did - while you enjoyed that right and did the same thing to another.

Hmmmm! The word HYPOCRITE comes to mind...

[jimnyc]

At least your wife is awake!



Speaking of which... Did you ever notice that Monday thru Friday you "overslept" but on Saturday and Sunday you "sleep in?"

My wife is a weirdo. She keeps her ipad running 24x7 when she's home. Sometimes she's sleeping, sometimes not. She has insomnia here and there, but she actually likes it. She just goes with the flow and stays up and takes advantage of it - whereas I'll pull my hair out and go nuts.

That's funny about Saturdays. You can also sleep for 10 hours during the week and feel like life is about over when you force yourself to get out of bed to go to work. But Saturday, and maybe going fishing... You can have 3 hours sleep and jump out of bed laughing and smiling. :)

[tailfins]

Nope.

I was called a 'liberal'. Publicly, for the world to see. The person calling me this had no reason at all to do so, no reason to suppose it could be true AT ALL, but it happened all the same.

What if you LIBERALLY poured gravy on your Thanksgiving slice of turkey?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

My two cents offered on this.
More freedom of speech here than any other political board I have ever been on.
And with that freedom of speech goes the right to make outlandish claims, false statements ,deliberate lies, etc--HOWEVER-
Within that vastly increased level of freedom of speech we get the right to read and decide for ourselves what is true, what is false, what is hyperbole, what is propaganda , what is dark/evil ,what is simple error, what may be insanity, what is good, what is bad , what is TRUE!
And what is utter rot.
In my battles here with past vermin/idiots I'VE BEEN CALLED SOUTHERN TRASH, TRAILER TRASH, HICK, HILL-BILLY, REDNECK, BASTARD , FOOL, ASSHOLE, ARROGANT, DUMB-ASS, SOB, BIGOT, RACIST, HOMOPHOBIC, GAY, LIAR, LAZY AND IDIOT.
WITH MORE FREEDOM COMES MORE RESPONSIBILITY BUT THATS NOT TO BE MANDATED BY ADMIN -
here-- in the sense of micro-managing heated exchanges, mistakes and differences of opinions between members in good standing.

In short, we should be thankful that its free to post here, more freedom of speech allowed and
Jim is as tolerant as he is..... :beer:

OK, JIM---SEND ME MY CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIE SHIPMENT.
AFTER THAT, ABOUT 6 DOZEN A MONTH WILL DO FOR A START. ;) :laugh:--TYR

p.s. -For true and unabashed attempted character assassination attempts the cage has been placed below the top boards.
And/or any form of differences that one wants to go ballistic on..

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

What if you LIBERALLY poured gravy on your Thanksgiving slice of turkey?

And that is just about the only thing that I liberally do.
Yet once, I WAS QUITE LIBERAL WITH MY DRINKING.;)-Tyr

[Drummond]

We can argue this forever, but you simply weren't libeled. No one that I am aware of could even remotely connect "Drummond" with whomever your real identity is. Regardless, a single word is not libelous anyway. Especially a word like "liberal", on a political website no less. If this were true, 80% of the members of this board, and ALL political boards that I know of, would be being libeled several times daily. I suppose we can just agree to disagree here.

We will never agree on this matter.

I am not a liberal, but the person who called me that DID so, knowing it to be untrue. This makes it a libellous accusation.

And of course, when that single word is directed at a particular individual, what it says is attributed to that individual. What if, for arguments' sake, such a thing was done with the single word 'murderer', or 'thief' ? Would the accused person have no right to defend against it ? No cause to feel aggrieved ?


And not for nothing, but you seem to call FJ a liberal all the time, or you used to do it non-stop. Many of us here have stepped in and stated otherwise, even though I really don't care much. Nonetheless, you continued. Perhaps FJ should sue for libel? Not likely, and it would be tossed out of court anyway.

Whether or not it'd make an actionable court action isn't ultimately the point, anyway. What is the point is whether a libel is committed, and issues (you claim otherwise) of culpability involved.

I was accused of being a liberal, which is untrue, and was known BY THE ACCUSER to be untrue.

Where FJ's concerned, the circumstances are different. FJ is A FRAUD, and I've illustrated this many times -- even to the point of sheer application of logic. It's quite easily done. For example: his 'The One True Thatcherite' monicker add-on. If he truly was the ONE TRUE Thatcherite .. then, logically, nobody else could be .. which denigrates any/all other real ONE TRUE Thatcherites out there.

Would any 'true' Thatcherite EVER DREAM OF DOING SUCH A THING ?

The obvious answer is 'NO'. Therefore, FJ's claim for himself is fraudulent.

Why would he persist with provably fraudulent, self-invented, bona fides ?

So you see, where 'libel' is concerned, there's no comparison. NONE.


I've heard this kind of stuff from members who didn't get their way since 2003. I appreciate your feedback, but I know very well how to run message boards. I acknowledge the possibility, but this is far from such a situation.

Right now, I'd agree. But none of us can predict the future.


This would not be libel in a UK court either, sorry. And libel IS extremely serious here in the USA, and if someone runs afoul, they can be sued for a few bucks and into millions and millions. It's an extremely serious matter, along with slander/defamation.

Glad to hear it !


I've also heard such talk about staff, and members leaving for years and years too. You'll be hard pressed to find more than perhaps one or 2 members here that feel Kathianne was wrong in anyway, let alone acting in a libelous manner.

I consider myself duly warned, then, since such opinions can surely only persist in minds hostile to me. Until / unless proven otherwise - and with a few notable exceptions - the logic of this must mean that I'm posting in a fundamentally unfriendly environment.

I shall adapt accordingly .. if I must.


No one is leaving, nor will they. Ask others, see if anyone gives a shit about another member, or even a staff member, daring to call someone a liberal. And "at a minimum"? No offense, but in case you haven't noticed, folks aren't keeping away. Nothing has changed.

This argues against your contention of libel being regarded as a serious matter ! Of course, whether people feel at home here and want to continue on as members, is something that's entirely their business. Nonetheless ... Conservatives should adhere to decent values. I do. And, I will.


It wouldn't achieve nothing as there is nothing to achieve.

I'd noticed, thanks.


Think about it - Do you want me to FORCE SOMEONE TO APOLOGIZE?

No, I want that person to WANT to apologise .. because it's the decent thing to do ! This shouldn't even be any issue for a genuine Conservative, since personal and honourable standards should permit no other outcome.


Remove them from staff? Temporary ban them? FOR WHAT? For daring to call someone a liberal? The VERY SAME THING you do to others or another? Go ahead, create a public poll, ask the "public" you refer to if they think someone should be banned, or removed from staff, if they call someone a liberal. Ask them if they will leave in droves if I don't take action against Kathianne. You think it's me, refusing somehow. If true, you may be surprised when you find out that almost everyone agrees with me.

See above. Personal, decent, honourable standards should exist and live within each and all Conservatives worthy of the name.

I'll simply say that if this is NOT true of Conservatives here, I predict that I'll be arguing with a lot more of you, and a lot more strongly, than has been true up to now. If this really is going to prove to be an environment hostile to values I regard as decent Conservative ones, I think I'll be in for, shall we say, 'interesting times' in whatever future I may (or may not ?) have here.

[Drummond]

What if you LIBERALLY poured gravy on your Thanksgiving slice of turkey?

That's easy. I'd know never to vote for myself in any election.

[Drummond]

Hmmmm! The word HYPOCRITE comes to mind...

Truth v untruth has a relevance here.

[jimnyc]

And with that freedom of speech goes the right to make outlandish claims, false statements ,deliberate lies, etc

Let me put a take on this...

Calling someone a radical supporter. Abortion, one who supports murder. Gun folks, nutcases who want to kill people. Then add in heated debates. There is always some sarcasm tossed around, and name calling. For better or worse, it pretty much happens here on a daily basis. It pretty much happens on a daily basis - on all political forums. Someone espouses their far right conservative opinion - and someone else may tell them they're a chicken hawk. Someone posts their lefty stance, and they're called a socialist or communist.

Based on our opinions, we often get labeled. Sometimes we get these labels just because we;re in the midst of a heated debate.

And example, suppose 2 members are going at it in a thread for hours and hours. It's getting more and more heated. One of them calls the other an asshole. Is that person REALLY an asshole? Of course not, we say things while debating, it happens. It's the nature of the beast. One would be hard pressed to find a member on here that wasn't labeled, or called a name in one way or another. And I'm not defending the specific names, just explaining how it is from a different angle.

Hell, Jafar was basically labeled a terrorist, a terrorist supporter at minimum. One would think that's a tad harsher than being called a liberal.

[hjmick]

THIS JUST A MESSAGE BOARD!

We're not curing cancer here folks, don't take it so damn seriously.


Somebody called me a liberal once, it didn't make me one.

Somebody once called me a neo-con, it didn't make me one.

Somebody called me a fag once (not that there's anything wrong with being gay), it didn't make me one.



Just let it roll off like water on a duck's back.

[jimnyc]

I've known FJ for years and years. He is NOT a liberal. He is NOT a fraud. I just laugh when I see that non-stop fighting with you guys, and have corrected that many times, but it fell on deaf ears. But that's cool. I'm confident that FJ feels you libeled him. :rolleyes:

[jimnyc]

This argues against your contention of libel being regarded as a serious matter

Yes, WHEN it happens. I haven't seen it even remotely as of yet though.

[jimnyc]

THIS JUST A MESSAGE BOARD!

We're not curing cancer here folks, don't take it so damn seriously.


Somebody called me a liberal once, it didn't make me one.

Somebody once called me a neo-con, it didn't make me one.

Somebody called me a fag once (not that there's anything wrong with being gay), it didn't make me one.



Just let it roll off like water on a duck's back.

Sure, spoken just like a true liberal!! And I think you stole that last line from Gabby, thief! :coffee:

[Voted4Reagan]

What if you LIBERALLY poured gravy on your Thanksgiving slice of turkey?

Drummond is from GREAT BRITAIN.... HE DOESNT CELEBRATE THANKSGIVING!!!

Thanksgiving is an American Holiday... Not a British one


:slap:

[Drummond]

THIS JUST A MESSAGE BOARD!

We're not curing cancer here folks, don't take it so damn seriously.


Somebody called me a liberal once, it didn't make me one.

Somebody once called me a neo-con, it didn't make me one.

Somebody called me a fag once (not that there's anything wrong with being gay), it didn't make me one.



Just let it roll off like water on a duck's back.

So where do you draw the line, then ?

[tailfins]

Drummond is from GREAT BRITAIN.... HE DOESNT CELEBRATE THANKSGIVING!!!

Thanksgiving is an American Holiday... Not a British one


:slap:


What if you LIBERALLY poured gravy on your Thanksgiving a slice of turkey?

Fixed it.

[Drummond]

Yes, WHEN it happens. I haven't seen it even remotely as of yet though.

So you think I'm a liberal ?

Are you accusing me of being one ? Do you have it in mind to make that accusation ?

Because someone did ... and to this day, I've no idea why. What I do know is that there's an absolute determination from that certain someone to NOT offer an apology for it.

[tailfins]

So where do you draw the line, then ?

You sign up for one of Dr. Jim's counseling sessions!

[jimnyc]

So you think I'm a liberal ?

Are you accusing me of being one ? Do you have it in mind to make that accusation ?

Because someone did ... and to this day, I've no idea why. What I do know is that there's an absolute determination from that certain someone to NOT offer an apology for it.

No, I don't see you as a liberal in the slightest bit. I just don't see calling you one as being libel in the slightest bit either, especially while online with strangers. I've made no accusation, so chilly out.

[gabosaurus]

So where do you draw the line, then ?

There is no line. It's the internet. What difference does it make? If I accused you of secretly being a liberal jihadist activist, why would you feel the need to be upset? It's not like I am forcing you to eat a bad meat pie.

http://associatesmind.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/internet-serious-business-cat.jpg

[indago]

Truth v untruth has a relevance here.

Then explain the "Truth" of the matter, and the "untruth"!

[hjmick]

Sure, spoken just like a true liberal!! And I think you stole that last line from Gabby, thief! :coffee:


I don't read Gabby's posts. She's too conservative...

[jimnyc]

I don't read Gabby's posts. She's too conservative...

I'll give you up in a NYC minute when she sues you!! :poke:

[gabosaurus]

I never more about hjmick. He is almost as liberal as drummond. :eek:

[hjmick]

So where do you draw the line, then ?


At my wife and kids. Otherwise, I don't.


I know who and what I am. What some anonymous person says about me on an Internet message board means absolutely nothing to me. Nothing. I could not possibly care less.

[Drummond]

I've known FJ for years and years. He is NOT a liberal. He is NOT a fraud. I just laugh when I see that non-stop fighting with you guys, and have corrected that many times, but it fell on deaf ears. But that's cool. I'm confident that FJ feels you libeled him. :rolleyes:

Nonsense.

Explain the many attacks made against specifically Conservative posters, then. I don't see their equivalent against Left winger types.

If you're a Conservative, you think like one. If you're a liberal, you think like one. In fact, you can't even help it, since YOUR thoughts are YOUR thoughts.

FJ has provided several clear examples of liberal thinking. Thoughts identified with the Left, not with the Right. More .. his so-called 'debating style' is one where he avoids overly offering opinion as something proactive. Why ? Because to do so would do a lot to reveal his actual thought processes, and this would be too revealing.

I can cite various examples, but I'll limit myself to the one for now. FJ says 'austerity sucks'. He applies that to scenarios where economies institute fiscally tight austerity measures, as remedial actions to repair ailing economies.

The British Conservative Party instituted austerity measures in the UK in 2010. FJ attacked the Conservatives for having done so (.. any excuse, eh ? ..). He continued with his anti-austerity line when the Greek LEFTIES were pushing for it (.. before the EU gave them a dose of reality, and they had to renege on it all). Since then .. we, in the UK, have a newly elected LEFTIE, called Jeremy Corbyn, who himself is strongly anti-austerity, and even more so than his predecessor, as Corbyn is FURTHER to the Left than Miliband was. Just as FJ is, so it is that other, LEFT WING, politicians think that way.

I say again: If you're a Conservative, you think like one. If you're a liberal, you think like one. In fact, you can't even help it ...

I don't know if FJ will ever have the nerve to accuse me of libelling him (though it wouldn't surprise me). But it won't change the truth of the matter. FJ does think like a Leftie, he knows it, he attacks Conservatives because he's fundamentally opposed to them, and avoids proactivity in offering thoughts and ideas, preferring instead pedantic 'deconstruction' methodology instead.

That's when he's not just offering abuse.

[jimnyc]

At my wife and kids. Otherwise, I don't.


I know who and what I am. What some anonymous person says about me on an Internet message board means absolutely nothing to me. Nothing. I could not possibly care less.

I think if someone called me a Cowboys fan, or a Giants fan, they may be pushing things a little too much. I think Darin once told me I was a fan of the Seahawks. We didn't talk for 4 years after that. :laugh:

[Drummond]

Then explain the "Truth" of the matter, and the "untruth"!

Truth: I am a Conservative. I've been accused of being its opposite, a 'liberal'.

The person accusing has, to this day, despite being sure it was untrue, nonetheless not apologised for it.

Further truth: FJ is a Leftie, and I've called him out on it quite a number of times. Though FJ professes not to be one, every now and again his thinking gives him away. So, I point it out to him. FJ then falls back on abusive methodology to get 'out of it', because short of admitting the truth about himself, that's the only recourse he has.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I've known FJ for years and years. He is NOT a liberal. He is NOT a fraud. I just laugh when I see that non-stop fighting with you guys, and have corrected that many times, but it fell on deaf ears. But that's cool. I'm confident that FJ feels you libeled him. :rolleyes:

Hate to disagree with you but he sides with liberals muslims and other such damn perverts too much not to harbor sentiments or some kind of allegiance with such vermin.
And no-- nobody in this universe will ever convince me otherwise my friend. A fact. -Tyr

[jimnyc]

Nonsense.

I was voicing my opinion. I certainly don't want to debate his political leanings, nor anyone elses! :) But I will add, my opinion from many years, I think he is closer to the middle of the road, part libertarian, big on the constitution, defends abortion... I don't see him as a far right conservative of course, but I don't see him as a liberal. But that's just Jim's opinion, which means nothing at the end of the day.

[Drummond]

At my wife and kids. Otherwise, I don't.


I know who and what I am. What some anonymous person says about me on an Internet message board means absolutely nothing to me. Nothing. I could not possibly care less.

Then that's your choice.

For myself, I have a sense of self-respect where there are things I will not take.

[Drummond]

I was voicing my opinion. I certainly don't want to debate his political leanings, nor anyone elses! :) But I will add, my opinion from many years, I think he is closer to the middle of the road, part libertarian, big on the constitution, defends abortion... I don't see him as a far right conservative of course, but I don't see him as a liberal. But that's just Jim's opinion, which means nothing at the end of the day.

.. and you're entitled to your opinion. Nonetheless, with weight of evidence showing the opposite .. even if you wish to maintain your view, there are others who note and learn from evidence available. I have done so with FJ.

I say again: FJ singles out Conservatives for his strongest and most sustained attacking prose. This can only indicate fundamental opposition against specifically Conservatives.

[jimnyc]

Hate to disagree with you but he sides with liberals muslims and other such damn perverts too much not to harbor sentiments or some kind of allegiance with such vermin.
And no-- nobody in this universe will ever convince me otherwise my friend. A fact. -Tyr

That's cool, I have no beef with any of the above, nor do I want to convince anyone of anything! I didn't mean to imply that others must get along, or see what my opinion is. Sometimes various people see things differently is all. I don't debate with FJ to the level that you or Drummond have.

One thing though that makes me think/lean that way, and perhaps FJ can answer this (I think he has already, but I'm too lazy to go look). FJ - regardless of who ultimately gets the nomination, will you be voting on the right, or will you be voting for the Dem nomination?

[hjmick]

Then that's your choice.

For myself, I have a sense of self-respect where there are things I will not take.


Don't for one second think I don't have a great deal of self respect. I have it in abundance.


Mine is not dependent on what others think or say about me.


That's called self confidence. Something else I have in abundance...

[jimnyc]

I say again: FJ singles out Conservatives for his strongest and most sustained attacking prose. This can only indicate fundamental opposition against specifically Conservatives.

Or maybe because there is like only 1 liberal posting here? He can't very well single them out if they aren't here.

[tailfins]

I've known FJ for years and years. He is NOT a liberal. He is NOT a fraud. I just laugh when I see that non-stop fighting with you guys, and have corrected that many times, but it fell on deaf ears. But that's cool. I'm confident that FJ feels you libeled him. :rolleyes:

Having been all over the country and having participated in political campaigns in several regions, I would classify FJ as a New England-style Republican.

[Drummond]

Hate to disagree with you but he sides with liberals muslims and other such damn perverts too much not to harbor sentiments or some kind of allegiance with such vermin.
And no-- nobody in this universe will ever convince me otherwise my friend. A fact. -Tyr:clap::clap::clap:

Exactly ! In fact, FJ goes out of his way to defend Muslims' 'human rights' any chance he can. I think his strongest comments have been posted in the act of denigration towards anyone (certainly myself) who posts contrary to FJ's obviously liberal, 'Muslim friendly' stance on that.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Let me put a take on this...

Calling someone a radical supporter. Abortion, one who supports murder. Gun folks, nutcases who want to kill people. Then add in heated debates. There is always some sarcasm tossed around, and name calling. For better or worse, it pretty much happens here on a daily basis. It pretty much happens on a daily basis - on all political forums. Someone espouses their far right conservative opinion - and someone else may tell them they're a chicken hawk. Someone posts their lefty stance, and they're called a socialist or communist.

Based on our opinions, we often get labeled. Sometimes we get these labels just because we;re in the midst of a heated debate.

And example, suppose 2 members are going at it in a thread for hours and hours. It's getting more and more heated. One of them calls the other an asshole. Is that person REALLY an asshole? Of course not, we say things while debating, it happens. It's the nature of the beast. One would be hard pressed to find a member on here that wasn't labeled, or called a name in one way or another. And I'm not defending the specific names, just explaining how it is from a different angle.

Hell, Jafar was basically labeled a terrorist, a terrorist supporter at minimum. One would think that's a tad harsher than being called a liberal.


Hell, Jafar was basically labeled a terrorist, a terrorist supporter at minimum.

Odds are that he was and still is. After all he admitted being a damn muslim.
All true muslims obey the Koran--anybody obeying/believing in that death cult book are scum--no other way to lok at it.
The Koran teaches to murder all infidels, men , women and children that do not convert !
Teaches to enslave all. They enslave, mistreat and rape even their own women and children!
Can not get any more evil that that! -Tyr

[Drummond]

Having been all over the country and having participated in political campaigns in several regions, I would classify FJ as a New England-style Republican.

I would classify him with stronger words, I'm afraid.

Do all New England-style Republicans all fight for Muslim human rights ? Are they immovably united in never wanting to see any argument that might argue towards Obama's impeachment ?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Having been all over the country and having participated in political campaigns in several regions, I would classify FJ as a New England-style Republican.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:, about as good as many of your other posts that are looney.
You that love muslim scum defending fj that loves muslim scum--why does that not shock me?---:laugh:-Tyr

[jimnyc]

Odds are that he was and still is. After all he admitted being a damn muslim.
All true muslims obey the Koran--anybody obeying/believing in that death cult book are scum--no other way to lok at it.
The Koran teaches to murder all infidels, men , women and children!
Teaches to enslave all. They enslave, mistreat and rape even their own women and children!
Can not get any more evil that that! -Tyr

:laugh2:

Perhaps you're correct, perhaps you are! I'm just saying, the labels were always here, in various forms.

[Drummond]

Or maybe because there is like only 1 liberal posting here? He can't very well single them out if they aren't here.

So, does this 'one' liberal get the same ferocity of attacks that other Conservatives have had ?

[Drummond]

Don't for one second think I don't have a great deal of self respect. I have it in abundance.


Mine is not dependent on what others think or say about me.


That's called self confidence. Something else I have in abundance...

To each their own, then.

[NightTrain]

So, does this 'one' liberal get the same ferocity of attacks that other Conservatives have had ?


In spades.

I personally have heaped abuse on her. And you've read the threads.

In fairness to myself, I felt it was completely justified.

[jimnyc]

So, does this 'one' liberal get the same ferocity of attacks that other Conservatives have had ?

The liberal barely posts anything worth replying to. And that's why even I have that liberal on ignore.

But the ferocity you speak of, it's not something FJ is actively involved in with the community. From what I see, it appears to be something with you, him and Tyr. And no, not taking sides, just stating what I see. I honestly don't see him fighting like that with other conservative/republican members here.

[Drummond]

That's cool, I have no beef with any of the above, nor do I want to convince anyone of anything! I didn't mean to imply that others must get along, or see what my opinion is. Sometimes various people see things differently is all. I don't debate with FJ to the level that you or Drummond have.

One thing though that makes me think/lean that way, and perhaps FJ can answer this (I think he has already, but I'm too lazy to go look). FJ - regardless of who ultimately gets the nomination, will you be voting on the right, or will you be voting for the Dem nomination?

When you've got someone claiming he's the 'one true' Thatcherite, even though it's ultimately denigratory against Thatcherites, yet he STILL claims it, regardless .. you've got someone who'll say whatever he chooses to say, whether it's true or not.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

:laugh2:

Perhaps you're correct, perhaps you are! I'm just saying, the labels were always here, in various forms.

See. We have here the freedom to express our views and disagreements without heavy handed mod action.
I disagreed with you vehemently about fj and did so with no fear of being punished.
We ALL should stop and ponder what that extra amount of freedom of speech means and what sacrifices it may call for IMHO.

I spoke about this subject and did not condemn either my friend big D or my friend Kat.
I gave credence to the extra freedom allowed at this forum , even gave kudos and joked about
JIM SENDING ME MY FAVORITE COOKIES.

We have "real fish to fry" and just maybe we should concentrate on them instead methinks. --Tyr

[Drummond]

In spades.

I personally have heaped abuse on her. And you've read the threads.

In fairness to myself, I felt it was completely justified.

But then, you're a Conservative thinker.

A non-Conservative thinker wouldn't be motivated to do that, however, not with an ideological ally.

[jimnyc]

When you've got someone claiming he's the 'one true' Thatcherite, even though it's ultimately denigratory against Thatcherites, yet he STILL claims it, regardless .. you've got someone who'll say whatever he chooses to say, whether it's true or not.

Or saying such things to you, and likely you only. He probably claims such because it makes you angry.

[Drummond]

See. We have here the freedom to express our views and disagreements without heavy handed mod action.
I disagreed with you vehemently about fj and did so with no fear of being punished.
We ALL should stop and ponder what that extra amount of freedom of speech means and what sacrifices it may call for IMHO.

I spoke about this subject and did not condemn either my friend big D or my friend Kat.
I gave credence to the extra freedom allowed at this forum , even gave kudos and joked about
JIM SENDING ME MY FAVORITE COOKIES.

We have "real fish to fry" and just maybe we should concentrate on them instead methinks. --Tyr

Views and disagreements are part of free expression. They do service to it.

Untruths abuse freedom of speech, though ...

[Drummond]

Or saying such things to you, and likely you only. He probably claims such because it makes you angry.

And why would he want to make me angry, anyway, if he's such a great NON-Leftie ??

I am a Thatcherite. FJ professes to be. Yet there's no ideological kinship there.

That's because FJ is a fraud.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

The liberal barely posts anything worth replying to. And that's why even I have that liberal on ignore.

But the ferocity you speak of, it's not something FJ is actively involved in with the community. From what I see, it appears to be something with you, him and Tyr. And no, not taking sides, just stating what I see. I honestly don't see him fighting like that with other conservative/republican members here.

I only do my real ferocity in person Jim. The fj has experienced none of my real ferocity . And never will IMHO!
HERE WE USE ONLY WORDS NOT FISTS--NOT CORRECTIVE ASS- STOMPINGS AS IN REAL LIFE.

And yes,the worm primarily concentrated on myself and Drummond but thats because others let him slide, ignore him or give him a pass IMHO.

I prefer gabby and her honesty over fj and his deceit any day my friend!--Tyr

[jimnyc]

And why would he want to make me angry, anyway, if he's such a great NON-Leftie ??

Because that's what happens in very long extended fighting.

[Drummond]

I only do my real ferocity in person Jim. The fj has experienced none of my real ferocity . And never will IMHO!
HERE WE USE ONLY WORDS NOT FISTS--NOT CORRECTIVE ASS- STOMPINGS AS IN REAL LIFE.

And yes,the worm primarily concentrated on myself and Drummond but thats because others let him slide, ignore him or give him a pass IMHO.

I prefer gabby and her honesty over fj and his deceit any day my friend!--Tyr:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Couldn't agree more.

[Drummond]

Because that's what happens in very long extended fighting.

Consider the tactics FJ employs in that fighting. Since when would a Conservative stoop to such things ?

[jimnyc]

I only do my real ferocity in person Jim. The fj has experienced none of my real ferocity . And never will IMHO!
HERE WE USE ONLY WORDS NOT FISTS--NOT CORRECTIVE ASS- STOMPINGS AS IN REAL LIFE.

And yes,the worm primarily concentrated on myself and Drummond but thats because others let him slide, ignore him or give him a pass IMHO.

I prefer gabby and her honesty over fj and his deceit any day my friend!--Tyr

Oh, FJ and I get in a lot of "heated" debates. I don't give him a pass. But no way in hell do I want to fight for a LONG time. I just don't have it in me anymore to use my brain for that long. :laugh2:

[jimnyc]

Consider the tactics FJ employs in that fighting. Since when would a Conservative stoop to such things ?

When they're in very long extended fights. I've seen it a million times. I know you think I'm being a dick, but this is truly what happens with such fights. And it will likely continue forever, until someone decides to use the ignore button. I don't see right or wrong here, nor winners or losers, I only see losers - and that's both of you, and many others that would love to see the issues put to sleep. (I mean losers, as we all lose as a result, I'm not calling anyone a loser). But the only thing that's ever going to happen is the continuation of the fight.

[NightTrain]

A few facts to consider :

1) We are all adults on a public message board and have the freedom to say whatever we want. Crossing the line on the few rules this board has may have repercussions, but you are free to cross them.

2) Staff can voice their opinions just like anyone else here on this board. We are volunteers and we perform this thankless job at Jim's pleasure.

3) There is no force on earth that is going to make Kathi apologize. I guarantee this.

4) Kathi doesn't need to apologize for voicing her opinion, the same as I don't need to apologize for calling Jafar a muzzie terrorist or calling Gabby a rabid Moonbat. It's my opinion, and mine alone - right or wrong.

5) Jim literally cannot force anyone to apologize, nor is he going to 'punish' Kathi for voicing her opinion. Censor her, censor everyone. Fair play.

6) Jim actually pays money out of his pocket so that anyone can voice their opinions. We are all guests here, and he gets to make the rules.

7) Anyone threatening legal action over being called a name over the internet needs to have their head examined. It's a completely empty threat.

[tailfins]

A few facts to consider :

1) We are all adults on a public message board and have the freedom to say whatever we want. Crossing the line on the few rules this board has may have repercussions, but you are free to cross them.

2) Staff can voice their opinions just like anyone else here on this board. We are volunteers and we perform this thankless job at Jim's pleasure.

3) There is no force on earth that is going to make Kathi apologize. I guarantee this.

4) Kathi doesn't need to apologize for voicing her opinion, the same as I don't need to apologize for calling Jafar a muzzie terrorist or calling Gabby a rabid Moonbat. It's my opinion, and mine alone - right or wrong.

5) Jim literally cannot force anyone to apologize, nor is he going to 'punish' Kathi for voicing her opinion. Censor her, censor everyone. Fair play.

6) Jim actually pays money out of his pocket so that anyone can voice their opinions. We are all guests here, and he gets to make the rules.

7) Anyone threatening legal action over being called a name over the internet needs to have their head examined. It's a completely empty threat.

Jim has educated me significantly what life is like on his side of the counter. It has definitely changed my perspective.

[tailfins]

Consider the tactics FJ employs in that fighting. Since when would a Conservative stoop to such things ?

I tend to tune things out that I don't like, but I will take your word for it.

[Gunny]

I think if someone called me a Cowboys fan, or a Giants fan, they may be pushing things a little too much. I think Darin once told me I was a fan of the Seahawks. We didn't talk for 4 years after that. :laugh:

Screw that .. you're a closet Tom Brady fan and we ALL know it. Probably have a Cleveland Clowns t-shirt too.:laugh:

[Drummond]

A few facts to consider :

1) We are all adults on a public message board and have the freedom to say whatever we want. Crossing the line on the few rules this board has may have repercussions, but you are free to cross them.

2) Staff can voice their opinions just like anyone else here on this board. We are volunteers and we perform this thankless job at Jim's pleasure.

3) There is no force on earth that is going to make Kathi apologize. I guarantee this.

4) Kathi doesn't need to apologize for voicing her opinion, the same as I don't need to apologize for calling Jafar a muzzie terrorist or calling Gabby a rabid Moonbat. It's my opinion, and mine alone - right or wrong.

5) Jim literally cannot force anyone to apologize, nor is he going to 'punish' Kathi for voicing her opinion. Censor her, censor everyone. Fair play.

6) Jim actually pays money out of his pocket so that anyone can voice their opinions. We are all guests here, and he gets to make the rules.

7) Anyone threatening legal action over being called a name over the internet needs to have their head examined. It's a completely empty threat.

Kathianne couldn't possibly have concluded I was a liberal. But I was called it, nonetheless. So it's not the same.

[Gunny]

Truth: I am a Conservative. I've been accused of being its opposite, a 'liberal'.

The person accusing has, to this day, despite being sure it was untrue, nonetheless not apologised for it.

Further truth: FJ is a Leftie, and I've called him out on it quite a number of times. Though FJ professes not to be one, every now and again his thinking gives him away. So, I point it out to him. FJ then falls back on abusive methodology to get 'out of it', because short of admitting the truth about himself, that's the only recourse he has.

Dude, you having a bad week, or what? FJs NOT a lefty. He likes to pull people's chains. He wins every time you let him. I don't even know if he has a political opinion. He reads a post and goes after the words.

You are conservative by Brit standards. You don't seem to want to accept that your political lines and ours drawn differently. Democrats in the 60s here were more conservative than Republicans are now. It's just a name and I can't see why you're so bent about it. If all I ever got called was a liberal I consider that a good day. :laugh:

[jimnyc]

Screw that .. you're a closet Tom Brady fan and we ALL know it. Probably have a Cleveland Clowns t-shirt too.:laugh:

I do think Brady is a great QB, and that's part of the reason I hate him and hope his neck snaps in half. And he also beat us in championship games quite a few times. And for that I hope he gets bitten by 4 brown recluse spiders, one for each limb, and let each of them rot for a few months. And while in the hospital I hope he gets a staph infection.

[Gunny]

I do think Brady is a great QB, and that's part of the reason I hate him and hope his neck snaps in half. And he also beat us in championship games quite a few times. And for that I hope he gets bitten by 4 brown recluse spiders, one for each limb, and let each of them rot for a few months. And while in the hospital I hope he gets a staph infection.

Holy crap. That's a bit of overkill, bubba.:laugh:

[Voted4Reagan]

I think if someone called me a Cowboys fan, or a Giants fan, they may be pushing things a little too much. I think Darin once told me I was a fan of the Seahawks. We didn't talk for 4 years after that. :laugh:

We all know you're an EAGLES FAN.... BIRD BOY!!!

[hjmick]

I do think Brady is a great QB, and that's part of the reason I hate him and hope his neck snaps in half. And he also beat us in championship games quite a few times. And for that I hope he gets bitten by 4 brown recluse spiders, one for each limb, and let each of them rot for a few months. And while in the hospital I hope he gets a staph infection.


Holy crap. That's a bit of overkill, bubba.:laugh:



No kidding...

Brady is very good, but not "great..."

[jimnyc]

We all know you're an EAGLES FAN.... BIRD BOY!!!

Well, at least I don't "hate" them as I do other teams, probably because I'm always rooting for them to beat the Giants! :laugh::laugh:

[jimnyc]

No kidding...

Brady is very good, but not "great..."

:laugh2:

[Drummond]

Dude, you having a bad week, or what? FJs NOT a lefty. He likes to pull people's chains. He wins every time you let him. I don't even know if he has a political opinion. He reads a post and goes after the words.

You are conservative by Brit standards. You don't seem to want to accept that your political lines and ours drawn differently. Democrats in the 60s here were more conservative than Republicans are now. It's just a name and I can't see why you're so bent about it. If all I ever got called was a liberal I consider that a good day. :laugh:

By claiming to be the 'One True Thatcherite', he is claiming to have political opinions, and of a particular type. But in doing that, he is being fraudulent. This isn't a matter of differing 'political lines', it's a matter of truth v untruth. FJ is a fraud.

Someone calls me a liberal - I interpret that as meaning I'm being called a Leftie, or, Socialist.

Socialists are wreckers. They believe in as absolute a control as they can establish over people, up to and including governing how they think. They'll do whatever social damage they feel like doing, to get their way. My own society nearly went into meltdown in 1979-80 because of it. By 2010, they pushed the UK to the very edge of bankruptcy.

Just a couple of days ago, the new Labour leader here declared that he'd NEVER 'push the button' and fire our nuclear deterrent, which is a treasonous statement designed to convince enemies that we will be more powerless to defend ourselves against an aggressor if Labour wins power here.

They are treasonous. They are destroyers. So you see, it's not 'just a name'.

[Gunny]

Well, at least I don't "hate" them as I do other teams, probably because I'm always rooting for them to beat the Giants! :laugh::laugh:

Crap, who cares who wins THAT one? A 0-0 tie works for me. The Earth opening up and swallowing both teams ...... hopefully the Deadskins are in the stands and go with them.

[gabosaurus]

I have said a lot of mean things about Jim, but there is a line I won't cross. Like, I will never accuse him of being a Ravens fans and secretly enjoying the outcome of Thursday's game. Nor will I accuse him of cross dressing and watching The View while his wife is at work. :eek:

As for Drummond, I know his dislike for liberals is merely rhetoric and he secretly agrees with a lot of liberal policies. And, deep down inside, he agrees with some of my criticisms of Maggie Thatcher. I bet Drummond even owns the Sex Pistols album.

[tailfins]

By claiming to be the 'One True Thatcherite', he is claiming to have political opinions, and of a particular type. But in doing that, he is being fraudulent. This isn't a matter of differing 'political lines', it's a matter of truth v untruth. FJ is a fraud.

Someone calls me a liberal - I interpret that as meaning I'm being called a Leftie, or, Socialist.

Socialists are wreckers. They believe in as absolute a control as they can establish over people, up to and including governing how they think. They'll do whatever social damage they feel like doing, to get their way. My own society nearly went into meltdown in 1979-80 because of it. By 2010, they pushed the UK to the very edge of bankruptcy.

Just a couple of days ago, the new Labour leader here declared that he'd NEVER 'push the button' and fire our nuclear deterrent, which is a treasonous statement designed to convince enemies that we will be more powerless to defend ourselves against an aggressor if Labour wins power here.

They are treasonous. They are destroyers. So you see, it's not 'just a name'.

You're painting everything with a political brush, which doesn't work. Unless they are doing criminal sabotage, leftists are useful members of society. I just don't want them in political office.

[Gunny]

I have said a lot of mean things about Jim, but there is a line I won't cross. Like, I will never accuse him of being a Ravens fans and secretly enjoying the outcome of Thursday's game. Nor will I accuse him of cross dressing and watching The View while his wife is at work. :eek:

As for Drummond, I know his dislike for liberals is merely rhetoric and he secretly agrees with a lot of liberal policies. And, deep down inside, he agrees with some of my criticisms of Maggie Thatcher. I bet Drummond even owns the Sex Pistols album.

He's a Ravens fan too? Crap. He's got the whole thing going on. Cleveland clowns tee, Brady fan AND watching Ravens games? I think they need to reinstate the death penalty in NY.:laugh:

[gabosaurus]

What Drummond is really concerned about is Labour allowing Muslims to settle in the rent controlled row houses in his neghborhood.

[tailfins]

I think if someone called me a Cowboys fan, or a Giants fan, they may be pushing things a little too much. I think Darin once told me I was a fan of the Seahawks. We didn't talk for 4 years after that. :laugh:

Who cares which team has the highest batting average? It's not like YOU'RE playing the game.

[jimnyc]

He's a Ravens fan too? Crap. He's got the whole thing going on. Cleveland clowns tee, Brady fan AND watching Ravens games? I think they need to reinstate the death penalty in NY.:laugh:

I hate you.

[jimnyc]

Who cares which team has the highest batting average? It's not like YOU'RE playing the game.

Batting average? That's baseball man!! We're talking NFL here!! And I know I'm not playing, But I've invested so much in their memorabilia over the years, and a few pricey game tickets, and a few million hours on the TV watching them, and just as much reading. I believe that gives me at least a tiny bit of stock in the team. :)

[Gunny]

Who cares which team has the highest batting average? It's not like YOU'RE playing the game.

Classic tailfins: we're on football and you're talking batting average. :laugh:

The part you're missing is we're just teasing. Where's that "The Warriors" thread? Lighten up, Ajax.

[Voted4Reagan]

I am going to Celebrate Trafalgar Day this year... October 21st.

Celebrating Lord Nelsons Victory over the Franco/Spanish Armada in 1805.

Maybe a nice

10 days later I get to give my lovely better half the best Samhain present .... I'll be away on business and she gets to relax and observe this highest of Wiccan holidays.

I made her plenty of pretty Candles for it.....

[Voted4Reagan]

Classic tailfins: we're on football and you're talking batting average. :laugh:

The part you're missing is we're just teasing. Where's that "The Warriors" thread? Lighten up, Ajax.

Jimmy is also a Flaming ROMO-SEXUAL for his beloved COWBOYS

[Gunny]

Jimmy is also a Flaming ROMO-SEXUAL for his beloved COWBOYS

Don't EVEN get me started on Tony Homo. It's like the reincarnation of Dandy White. Can drive the ball 80 yards and throw an interception in the end zone. Then we can move on to Jerry Jones. If you can make a bad decision, he's right on top of it. Give away the leading rusher in the NFL to keep a QB and WR that are BOTH OUT. And I don't even know what the name of this backup QB is. He quit paying for quality backups in the 90s. It's like Groundhog Day and Dumb and Dumber all in one movie.

[Abbey Marie]

Having been all over the country and having participated in political campaigns in several regions, I would classify FJ as a New England-style Republican.


Oxymoron alert! Or is that the joke here?

(I do have a New england BIL, but he was born and lived most of his life elsewhere, so he doesn't count)

[Voted4Reagan]

Don't EVEN get me started on Tony Homo. It's like the reincarnation of Dandy White. Can drive the ball 80 yards and throw an interception in the end zone. Then we can move on to Jerry Jones. If you can make a bad decision, he's right on top of it. Give away the leading rusher in the NFL to keep a QB and WR that are BOTH OUT. And I don't even know what the name of this backup QB is. He quit paying for quality backups in the 90s. It's like Groundhog Day and Dumb and Dumber all in one movie.

Calling Jimmy a Cowboys fan may get me banned or ignored for the next 15years....

I had to do it though..... Tony Romo is almost as bad as Worthlessberger

[Abbey Marie]

I think if someone called me a Cowboys fan, or a Giants fan, they may be pushing things a little too much. I think Darin once told me I was a fan of the Seahawks. We didn't talk for 4 years after that. :laugh:


I told you that you should be a Giants fan. Does that count? :laugh2:

[Gunny]

Calling Jimmy a Cowboys fan may get me banned or ignored for the next 15years....

I had to do it though..... Tony Romo is almost as bad as Worthlessberger

If that doesn't work, cal Abs an Eagles fan. :)

[Abbey Marie]

If that doesn't work, cal Abs an Eagles fan. :)


Oh now you've gone too far, Gunny!

:flameth:

[jimnyc]

Oh man, you guys are brutal today. Freedom of speech has now been taken away! :laugh2:

[Voted4Reagan]

Oh now you've gone too far, Gunny!

:flameth:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/27/d1/4a/27d14aa3c0f4f2f56427faa309e4c6b2.jpg

[Gunny]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/27/d1/4a/27d14aa3c0f4f2f56427faa309e4c6b2.jpg

You kind of get my drift about that, right? :laugh:

[Voted4Reagan]

http://www.sportsmemes.net/pics/6993.jpg

[Abbey Marie]

FJ may be anything: liberal, conservative, communist, feminist, heck, he may even Pharoah-ist (lol).

We do not know, as he appears to prefer to keep his true feelings close to the vest.

What we do know he is, is a CONTRARIAN.

Which is why, instead of getting upset when he calls you a liberal, Drummond, you should reply exactly as follows:

"I'm not, you are!

And finish with these: :laugh2: :poke:


No charge for the advice. :cool:

[Gunny]

http://www.sportsmemes.net/pics/6993.jpg

Okay NOW you're going too far. Butthead. The perennial loser Cleveland Clowns will crash and burn their own asses, as usual. I think Jim Brown played last time they ever won anything.

[Abbey Marie]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/27/d1/4a/27d14aa3c0f4f2f56427faa309e4c6b2.jpg


Oh my god, I just lost it! :clap:

[Gunny]

Oh my god, I just lost it! :clap:

Too predictable. You got set up for that one. :laugh:

[Voted4Reagan]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/92/58/18/925818ea6b6f30997db0b1b1f7c400df.jpg

[Abbey Marie]

Too predictable. You got set up for that one. :laugh:

Wait, does he really think I'm an Eagles fan?!

[Gunny]

Wait, does he really think I'm an Eagles fan?!

I don't know what HE thinks. Isn't that the whole point of this thread? Everyone I think knows you're a Giants fan (Lord knows why). If Giants fans are like Cowboys fans I'm thinking the stinking, cheating low down Beagle Boys are out. :laugh:

The point is, it's just a tease and a joke to most of us. I used to LOVE being called a liberal because it just made me crack up. I just don't understand why Drummond is so offended for someone on a board calling him a name.

[Voted4Reagan]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/55/61/66/5561668d39fcf66287e59f49d276ad03.jpg

[indago]

Truth: I am a Conservative. I've been accused of being its opposite, a 'liberal'.

The person accusing has, to this day, despite being sure it was untrue, nonetheless not apologised for it.

Further truth: FJ is a Leftie, and I've called him out on it quite a number of times. Though FJ professes not to be one, every now and again his thinking gives him away. So, I point it out to him. FJ then falls back on abusive methodology to get 'out of it', because short of admitting the truth about himself, that's the only recourse he has.

So, you have explained "the "Truth" of the matter", but you haven't explained "the "untruth"" of what jimnyc wrote. Why is that?

[aboutime]

Just to clarify some things for fj, and indago. It just so happens that what British people call Lefties, actually, in most cases become Righties here in the USA. And the opposite is what they identify here.

So, Sir Drummond has every right to express his feelings by using the words lefty, and righty PER His U.K. upbringing. That appears to be why so many like fj and indago constantly claim to be something other..than what THE REST OF US KNOW to be true in their cases. Rhetoric, and Semantics is their game. PERIOD.

[Gunny]

Just to clarify some things for fj, and indago. It just so happens that what British people call Lefties, actually, in most cases become Righties here in the USA. And the opposite is what they identify here.

So, Sir Drummond has every right to express his feelings by using the words lefty, and righty PER His U.K. upbringing. That appears to be why so many like fj and indago constantly claim to be something other..than what THE REST OF US KNOW to be true in their cases. Rhetoric, and Semantics is their game. PERIOD.

I have no problem with Dummond (and I know you didn't address ME). He's entitled to his opinion like anyone else. He's always polite and makes his statement.

He just needs to get in touch with the fact Brits and Americans don't always think the same. A conservative here ain't one there. Hell, didn't we have 2 wars over this crap?

But I agree on Fj's part ... semantics IS his game. Still working on indago's game.

BUT if you KNOW it's a game, why react exactly like the antagonist wants you to? You give them what they want.

[indago]

Just to clarify some things for fj, and indago. It just so happens that what British people call Lefties, actually, in most cases become Righties here in the USA. And the opposite is what they identify here.

So, Sir Drummond has every right to express his feelings by using the words lefty, and righty PER His U.K. upbringing. That appears to be why so many like fj and indago constantly claim to be something other..than what THE REST OF US KNOW to be true in their cases. Rhetoric, and Semantics is their game. PERIOD.

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/4879093504/h5C04382E/

[Drummond]

FJ may be anything: liberal, conservative, communist, feminist, heck, he may even Pharoah-ist (lol).

We do not know, as he appears to prefer to keep his true feelings close to the vest.

What we do know he is, is a CONTRARIAN.

Which is why, instead of getting upset when he calls you a liberal, Drummond, you should reply exactly as follows:

"I'm not, you are!

And finish with these: :laugh2: :poke:


No charge for the advice. :cool:

Another word for it would be 'Troll'.

So far as I can recall (.. not that I take a lot of notice of anything FJ has to say, these days ..) .. he usually doesn't call me a Leftie.

It's usually the other way around.

As for finishing with a smilie .. well, FJ would doubtless 'quote' me with something I hadn't posted to him at all (truth is never at a premium with Lefties), so it'd probably be wasted on him.

[Drummond]

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/4879093504/h5C04382E/

Is THAT what FJ looks like ???

H'm. No wonder he can never quote me accurately !!

[Drummond]

Just to clarify some things for fj, and indago. It just so happens that what British people call Lefties, actually, in most cases become Righties here in the USA. And the opposite is what they identify here.

So, Sir Drummond has every right to express his feelings by using the words lefty, and righty PER His U.K. upbringing. That appears to be why so many like fj and indago constantly claim to be something other..than what THE REST OF US KNOW to be true in their cases. Rhetoric, and Semantics is their game. PERIOD.

... Thing is, though, that FJ claims to be a Thatcherite (as in 'the one true Thatcherite', which, as I've repeatedly proven, is an abusive nonsense in any case). FJ, in claiming to be a Thatcherite, claims to identify with her specific 'brand' of Conservatism, which knocks out any possibility of interpretational differences from one side of the Pond to another.

[Of course, being a fraud, he - in actual fact - had great holes in his knowledge of her, which I've also exposed in the past ..]

[Drummond]

I have said a lot of mean things about Jim, but there is a line I won't cross. Like, I will never accuse him of being a Ravens fans and secretly enjoying the outcome of Thursday's game. Nor will I accuse him of cross dressing and watching The View while his wife is at work. :eek:

As for Drummond, I know his dislike for liberals is merely rhetoric and he secretly agrees with a lot of liberal policies. And, deep down inside, he agrees with some of my criticisms of Maggie Thatcher. I bet Drummond even owns the Sex Pistols album.

... yes, well. I think I've established by now, from being on the receiving end of it, that libel is permitted here, without fear of consequences arising.

A propagandist's dream scenario, I'd have thought.

You're rather fond of posting here, aren't you, Gabby /

[Voted4Reagan]

... yes, well. I think I've established by now, from being on the receiving end of it, that libel is permitted here, without fear of consequences arising.

A propagandist's dream scenario, I'd have thought.

You're rather fond of posting here, aren't you, Gabby /

What are the Elements of Your New York Internet Defamation Case?In order to establish a claim for libel or slander, a Plaintiff must demonstrate “(1) a false and defamatory statement of fact; (2) regarding the plaintiff; (3) which is published to a third party; and which (4) results in injury to plaintiff.
Once you understand what is a defamatory statement, the rest of your New York internet defamation case becomes much simpler. Clearly the statement has to be about you. A statement published on a blog or review site is published for the world to see. A statement written in an email to you directly would not be considered a published defamatory statement (however, if your boss is cc’d, then it is “published.”) Finally, you must show damages.

[fj1200]

I don't know if FJ will ever have the nerve to accuse me of libelling him (though it wouldn't surprise me).

Only dumb people whine about libel on the internet. I notice that you didn't whine about it when one of your pals told me who I supposedly was on another forum and had been banned, etc. etc. You didn't seem to care about "libel" then.


Hate to disagree with you but he sides with liberals muslims and other such damn perverts too much not to harbor sentiments or some kind of allegiance with such vermin.


I say again: FJ singles out...

To the two of you, I argue against bad reasoning skills and big-government hacks. I argue in favor of truth and fact. :)


... will you be voting on the right, or will you be voting for the Dem nomination?

I don't recall ever voting Dem in the general election. Sometimes I'm forced to vote against Cynthia McKinney in the primaries though. :)

EDIT:

This thread does win the whiniest thread of the year award though. :laugh:

[fj1200]

... Thing is, though, that FJ claims...

This whole thread is why you're like a silly child. You're whining to others about me and while I can prove you support big government policies you can't prove the same about me... And I'm supposed to be the leftie around here. :laugh:

EDIT:

And congratulations are in order I think for hitting all the buzzwords of arguments you've lost in previous threads and rehashing them here. :applause:

[jimnyc]

What are the Elements of Your New York Internet Defamation Case?

In order to establish a claim for libel or slander, a Plaintiff must demonstrate “(1) a false and defamatory statement of fact; (2) regarding the plaintiff; (3) which is published to a third party; and which (4) results in injury to plaintiff.
Once you understand what is a defamatory statement, the rest of your New York internet defamation case becomes much simpler. Clearly the statement has to be about you. A statement published on a blog or review site is published for the world to see. A statement written in an email to you directly would not be considered a published defamatory statement (however, if your boss is cc’d, then it is “published.”) Finally, you must show damages.

Not sure why Drummond thanked this, it only proves what I've been saying - libel didn't happen. Hurt feelings do not equate to damages. The argument can go on forever but it won't change anything. IF it were even remotely true, then 90% of folks on every single political board out there has been libeled.

[jimnyc]

I don't recall ever voting Dem in the general election. Sometimes I'm forced to vote against Cynthia McKinney in the primaries though. :)

So you NEVER voted liberal/democrat? And do you have any intention on doing so this election cycle?

I think I knew the answers already, and if someone never has voted the left side before, I can hardly refer to them as a liberal.

[Drummond]

Only dumb people whine about libel on the internet. I notice that you didn't whine about it when one of your pals told me who I supposedly was on another forum and had been banned, etc. etc. You didn't seem to care about "libel" then.

Oh, you'd be surprised at how little I care about anything to do with you.


To the two of you, I argue against bad reasoning skills and big-government hacks. I argue in favor of truth and fact. :)

Really ? Then argue in favour of what you perpetually claim about yourself .. that you are 'The One True Thatcherite'. Let's see you manage that, without also disproving it !


I don't recall ever voting Dem in the general election. Sometimes I'm forced to vote against Cynthia McKinney in the primaries though. :)

I established long ago that you have an attention deficit problem. Who's to say how extensive it is ?

[Drummond]

Not sure why Drummond thanked this, it only proves what I've been saying - libel didn't happen. Hurt feelings do not equate to damages. The argument can go on forever but it won't change anything. IF it were even remotely true, then 90% of folks on every single political board out there has been libeled.

I appended my 'thanks' because it was an interesting piece of information .. informative. So what's wrong with that ?

And yes, I'm well aware that nothing will change.

Which is a pity, isn't it. So far as I could ever fathom it, being a Conservative SHOULD equate to having fine, thoroughly reputable, personal standards, and always needing to strive to maintain them. But what we see here is an ongoing situation where that's being compromised .. big time .. AND a defence being offered for that compromise !!!!

It's actually incredible to witness.

[fj1200]

So you NEVER voted liberal/democrat? And do you have any intention on doing so this election cycle?

I think I knew the answers already, and if someone never has voted the left side before, I can hardly refer to them as a liberal.

I had a brief fascination with Dukakis :eek: that didn't even last to the general election. Conservatism is where it's at yo. :gangsign:


Oh, you'd be surprised at how little I care about anything to do with you.

You couldn't prove it by this thread. :) And how you selectively care about "libel" given who makes the charge.

[Abbey Marie]

Drummond, you should have been here back in the days when Pale Rider, ManFromMaine, and our Greek friend, were here. My friend, if you think anyone on this current version of the board is acting nasty, you ain't seen nuthin'.

[Drummond]

Drummond, you should have been here back in the days when Pale Rider, ManFromMaine, and our Greek friend, were here. My friend, if you think anyone on this current version of the board is acting nasty, you ain't seen nuthin'.

Perhaps. But does the one justify the other ?

[Drummond]

I had a brief fascination with Dukakis :eek: that didn't even last to the general election. Conservatism is where it's at yo. :gangsign:

You mean, that's what you chiefly want to snipe at ?

Just how vitriolic, snide, lacking in reputability generally, have your attacks on Conservatives on this forum been, anyway ?

Yes, I'm sure you liked Dukakis. Any other Lefties you want to admit to admiring ?


You couldn't prove it by this thread. :) And how you selectively care about "libel" given who makes the charge.

You have your amusement value.

And tell me, honestly ... if given the choice about caring for YOUR image (I can hardly say 'reputability', can I ?) rather than that of others .. who are you going to choose to defend first and foremost ?

[Abbey Marie]

Perhaps. But does the one justify the other ?


I thought my meaning was plain. This is a very tame board compared to what it used to be, and compared to many, if not most others. And the ones that force everyone to play nice can be rather dull, IMO.

We all have our nemeses, and I am not minimizing how yours make(s) you feel. What I am minimizing is the idea that the board is too lax on enforcing rules. We've all had our issues over the years, but I think Jim does a good job of striking a balance between freedom and restrictions.

I've previously given you my best advice on dealing with it. If you are secure that you are Conservative, who cares what anyone else says? Laugh it off; you know who and what you are better than anyone.

My favorite thing about you Brits is your sense of humor. :cool:

[Gunny]

So you NEVER voted liberal/democrat? And do you have any intention on doing so this election cycle?

I think I knew the answers already, and if someone never has voted the left side before, I can hardly refer to them as a liberal.

Huh. You got bigger things to worry about. I'm suing you AND Jeff AND John because all your names start with a "J". And I'm suing your parents for not coming up with a different letter.

[fj1200]

... attacks on Conservatives ...

None at all. You aren't one.

EDIT:

And you're still being selecting with your whining.

[Motown]

None at all. You aren't one.

EDIT:

And you're still being selecting with your whining.

You're accusing him of being selective?

[Gunny]

You're accusing him of being selective?

:laugh:

[fj1200]

You're accusing him of being selective?

Of course; He is as I've shown previously. As to his repetitive blather I won't rehash 100s of threads into this one with his same tired arguments; I won't do it because I'm sure you don't want me to muddle this thread up any further. :)

[jimnyc]

I appended my 'thanks' because it was an interesting piece of information .. informative. So what's wrong with that ?

Not at all. My assumption was that you liked it because you thought it backed you up, that somehow an anonymous person being called a liberal was libel. But hell, even if not anonymous, being called a liberal wouldn't be libel.


And yes, I'm well aware that nothing will change.

Well, if someone really did "libel" someone else, I most certainly WOULD take action. We had someone here who wrote to another persons work and tried to get them in trouble and/or fired. I agreed that it was WAY out of line and instantly worked on helping that person, even though it took place off the board. I even went as far as to email his employer to set the record straight, which did in fact help him. I would have gladly helped should it had ever reached a court of law. AND this person was a scumbag, most of us hated him. But doing the right thing was what mattered, the other person way overstepped the lines.

But you are correct, I won't be changing much as far as getting involved when members want to call one another names.


Which is a pity, isn't it. So far as I could ever fathom it, being a Conservative SHOULD equate to having fine, thoroughly reputable, personal standards, and always needing to strive to maintain them. But what we see here is an ongoing situation where that's being compromised .. big time .. AND a defence being offered for that compromise !!!!

It's actually incredible to witness.

And yet you have no issue calling people liberals, or terrorists and other unsavory names. I'm certainly not condemning you for such, as I do it too, but don't act like St. Drummond. I think it's incredible at times to witness people be so demanding of apologies and bans and other stuff, while the commit similar acts. You see it differently, so be it.

But let me ask you - if a liberal joined the board today, and announced as much... then went on to discuss issues here with us, and someone called them a conservative - I guess we should take some action against the person that says that as well? Or what about if a muslim joins today. This person states they have never so much as killed a fly, and don't support terrorism or radicalists in any way at all. But they tell you that they truly believe 100% in the Quran, Hadiths and such... I suppose you'll shake their hand and applaud the way they follow and believe in their religion? You would never say anything less than nice to a muslim that never said anything bad to you, would you? You can make excuses and other scenarios, but we both know the answer. Oh, and Btw, even if you did say such to them, 99.99% of the time it wouldn't be close to being libel on political boards.

[Motown]

Of course; He is as I've shown previously. As to his repetitive blather I won't rehash 100s of threads into this one with his same tired arguments; I won't do it because I'm sure you don't want me to muddle this thread up any further. :)

lolwut?

[fj1200]

lolwut?

Exactly. ;)

[Motown]

Exactly. ;)

No, not exactly. I'm just watching the thread and laughing at you, you think you're intellectually equal...you're not.

[fj1200]

No, not exactly. I'm just watching the thread and laughing at you, you think you're intellectually equal...you're not.

Hmm, interesting. I look forward to further debates. :)

[Motown]

Hmm, interesting. I look forward to further debates. :)

Stop lying, no you don't.

[jimnyc]

Drummond, you should have been here back in the days when Pale Rider, ManFromMaine, and our Greek friend, were here. My friend, if you think anyone on this current version of the board is acting nasty, you ain't seen nuthin'.


Perhaps. But does the one justify the other ?

Neither justifies anything. Point being, those folks weren't censored, or banned, or whatever for their nastiness either. Hell, look at how our friend Gunny posts and is nasty to a few when he wants to be - shouldn't someone be suing him for libel by now?

People need some thick skins if they are to participate on political message boards. Folks aren't nice always, and sometimes mean spirited, but that doesn't come close to being libel.

Hell, if pushed - I can gladly post this on a few boards ran by attorneys and post it as a real life situation to get feedback from those more in the know. My guess is that they ALL laugh at someone thinking they would have a case for libel. They would remind me that it would likely take $10-20k just to get such a case of the ground, and then again state not to waste the money on a non-winnable case. Kinda hard to get a better idea as to whether its a viable case or not, directly from attorneys. But without even going further, I will repeat myself, no damages = no case. That's without even getting into the anonymous part. And again, no, being insulted does not equal damages. Feeling slighted on message boards, even if others like you less afterwards, also isn't damaging. Damages are real world damages, not message boards and being butt hurt.

And I mean this in a humorous manner - Some would call this what I have here a "business". I disagree with that. Nonetheless, you have badmouthed the way I run things here. "I" would have a much more solid case for libel than you would over someone calling you a liberal.

[fj1200]

Stop lying, no you don't.

:rolleyes: What have I lied about?

[jimnyc]

Huh. You got bigger things to worry about. I'm suing you AND Jeff AND John because all your names start with a "J". And I'm suing your parents for not coming up with a different letter.

You can sue Joan and John, and then add in Jeff, Janeen, John and myself. You may also add in Jordan, Jaelynn & Jared. Hell, even I get confused!!

[aboutime]

:rolleyes: What have I lied about?


Always "PRETENDING" to be something, or someone else is the same a a lie. And we all do it. Is your real name fj?

[Drummond]

None at all. You aren't one.

I suppose there are those (.. beginning with you ?) who'd claim that this was not another example of my being libelled ?

And of course, you'll get away with it.

Words fail me.

[Drummond]

Neither justifies anything. Point being, those folks weren't censored, or banned, or whatever for their nastiness either. Hell, look at how our friend Gunny posts and is nasty to a few when he wants to be - shouldn't someone be suing him for libel by now?

People need some thick skins if they are to participate on political message boards. Folks aren't nice always, and sometimes mean spirited, but that doesn't come close to being libel.

Hell, if pushed - I can gladly post this on a few boards ran by attorneys and post it as a real life situation to get feedback from those more in the know. My guess is that they ALL laugh at someone thinking they would have a case for libel. They would remind me that it would likely take $10-20k just to get such a case of the ground, and then again state not to waste the money on a non-winnable case. Kinda hard to get a better idea as to whether its a viable case or not, directly from attorneys. But without even going further, I will repeat myself, no damages = no case. That's without even getting into the anonymous part. And again, no, being insulted does not equal damages. Feeling slighted on message boards, even if others like you less afterwards, also isn't damaging. Damages are real world damages, not message boards and being butt hurt.

And I mean this in a humorous manner - Some would call this what I have here a "business". I disagree with that. Nonetheless, you have badmouthed the way I run things here. "I" would have a much more solid case for libel than you would over someone calling you a liberal.

I doubt that I have anything to say on this subject that you'd care to agree with, so discussion is rendered useless - isn't it ?

But I do want to question:


Nonetheless, you have badmouthed the way I run things here. "I" would have a much more solid case for libel than you would over someone calling you a liberal

Have I got this right - you're claiming I've libelled you ??

Are you aware that in order to be classified as 'libel', the 'libel' must involve a statement that's untrue ?

What do you claim I've posted about (or to) you, that is untrue ?

[fj1200]

I suppose there are those (.. beginning with you ?) who'd claim that this was not another example of my being libelled ?

And of course, you'll get away with it.

Words fail me.

And they'll be right. Sometimes people have differing opinions. You may cease being shocked. Besides, truth is always a defense. ;)

[Gunny]

Neither justifies anything. Point being, those folks weren't censored, or banned, or whatever for their nastiness either. Hell, look at how our friend Gunny posts and is nasty to a few when he wants to be - shouldn't someone be suing him for libel by now?

People need some thick skins if they are to participate on political message boards. Folks aren't nice always, and sometimes mean spirited, but that doesn't come close to being libel.

Hell, if pushed - I can gladly post this on a few boards ran by attorneys and post it as a real life situation to get feedback from those more in the know. My guess is that they ALL laugh at someone thinking they would have a case for libel. They would remind me that it would likely take $10-20k just to get such a case of the ground, and then again state not to waste the money on a non-winnable case. Kinda hard to get a better idea as to whether its a viable case or not, directly from attorneys. But without even going further, I will repeat myself, no damages = no case. That's without even getting into the anonymous part. And again, no, being insulted does not equal damages. Feeling slighted on message boards, even if others like you less afterwards, also isn't damaging. Damages are real world damages, not message boards and being butt hurt.

And I mean this in a humorous manner - Some would call this what I have here a "business". I disagree with that. Nonetheless, you have badmouthed the way I run things here. "I" would have a much more solid case for libel than you would over someone calling you a liberal.

Too bad I took that as a compliment. :laugh2:

I've had this argument in real time and real life with a SO. What I like about here is we all just tolerate each other. Every other board is just a bitchfest. I can't stand being on them. Say the sky is blue and 20 people are right up your ass. Here, is more like Cheers to me. We all know each other, and most of us actually know each other's names. We all got our issues and just deal with it. I don't even know if I actually dislike anyone here ... wait ....:laugh:

There are at least 4 offshoots from Jim's original board. They're all copycats. And I KNOW quite a few people bounce from one to the other. I honestly don't. I log in here because I don't have to deal with drama; which, this is.

Drummond, as someone who respects you and what you have to offer, let it go. Everyone here has issues, to include you. People calling you a label ain't crap. You can argue it, but it doesn't require getting to this level.

[Drummond]

I thought my meaning was plain. This is a very tame board compared to what it used to be, and compared to many, if not most others. And the ones that force everyone to play nice can be rather dull, IMO.

We all have our nemeses, and I am not minimizing how yours make(s) you feel. What I am minimizing is the idea that the board is too lax on enforcing rules. We've all had our issues over the years, but I think Jim does a good job of striking a balance between freedom and restrictions.

I think I come back to an earlier (and fundamental) point. Does libel matter, or doesn't it ?

Are you arguing that it doesn't ?

If it DOES .. then how do you define what it's reasonable or not to tolerate ?


I've previously given you my best advice on dealing with it. If you are secure that you are Conservative, who cares what anyone else says? Laugh it off; you know who and what you are better than anyone.

I can respect that point.

But it still doesn't mean that being libelled is a good thing. And you'd then have to ask .. if standards dip to the level of permitting libel, what's the next boundary of decency to do away with ?


My favorite thing about you Brits is your sense of humor. :cool:

Thanks !

My continuing to post here does have its funny side. Not least because it gives FJ further opportunities to bogusly claim his 'Thatcherite' credentials, while simultaneously disproving it, time and again ...

[Drummond]

And they'll be right. Sometimes people have differing opinions. You may cease being shocked. Besides, truth is always a defense. ;)

Truth is indeed always a defence. Which is why, when faced with it, you have to resort to shabby trickery in order to 'evade' statements of it.

.. Like, posting something entirely different to what your opposition posted to you.

.. Like, offering a 'requote' that's actually entirely abusive.

.. Like, answering a logical and justifiable comment with pure, trolling abuse ...

.... stuff like that.

When you resort to such stupidity, you automatically lose. Doubtless YOU think you're being clever. Unless I'm much mistaken, though, you're in a minority of one in such a view.

[Abbey Marie]

I think I come back to an earlier (and fundamental) point. Does libel matter, or doesn't it ?

Are you arguing that it doesn't ?

If it DOES .. then how do you define what it's reasonable or not to tolerate ?



I can respect that point.

But it still doesn't mean that being libelled is a good thing. And you'd then have to ask .. if standards dip to the level of permitting libel, what's the next boundary of decency to do away with ?



Thanks !

My continuing to post here does have its funny side. Not least because it gives FJ further opportunities to bogusly claim his 'Thatcherite' credentials, while simultaneously disproving it, time and again ...


It is not libel.

[jimnyc]

I doubt that I have anything to say on this subject that you'd care to agree with, so discussion is rendered useless - isn't it ?

But I do want to question:



Have I got this right - you're claiming I've libelled you ??

Are you aware that in order to be classified as 'libel', the 'libel' must involve a statement that's untrue ?

What do you claim I've posted about (or to) you, that is untrue ?

You made claims about how I run this place and what it does to this place. As stupid and uneducated the statements are, they could easily rise to the level, but I wrote off comments from stupidity a long time back. I let dipshits talk as such so that they don't call me a "nazi" and then I have to sue them for libel. :rolleyes:

And Fwiw- with all of the non-stop whining and other shit about libel, and whining about being called such a horrible horrible name, you truly are reminding me of a liberal. I only base that off of your actions, which are laughable.

Anyway you slice it or dice it though, you ain't got jack shit. All you are doing is making yourself look foolish by crying about being called such a benign word.

http://i.imgur.com/8dhLy3i.jpg

[jimnyc]

It is not libel.

It's not even something that an attorney would even need to research in order to see if there's a valid case or not. I still shake my head every time I read this or have to respond.

But I say let them sue. And by "them" I mean anyone feeling like they were libeled and feel as if they have a case. It's not my money.

[jimnyc]

Too bad I took that as a compliment. :laugh2:

I've had this argument in real time and real life with a SO. What I like about here is we all just tolerate each other. Every other board is just a bitchfest. I can't stand being on them. Say the sky is blue and 20 people are right up your ass. Here, is more like Cheers to me. We all know each other, and most of us actually know each other's names. We all got our issues and just deal with it. I don't even know if I actually dislike anyone here ... wait ....:laugh:

There are at least 4 offshoots from Jim's original board. They're all copycats. And I KNOW quite a few people bounce from one to the other. I honestly don't. I log in here because I don't have to deal with drama; which, this is.

Drummond, as someone who respects you and what you have to offer, let it go. Everyone here has issues, to include you. People calling you a label ain't crap. You can argue it, but it doesn't require getting to this level.

Oh, it was a compliment. :) Reading posts like yours that aren't afraid to hold back sometimes = refreshing. But with all the nastiness and even name calling - nothing you post even remotely comes close to being libel.

[jimnyc]

I think I come back to an earlier (and fundamental) point. Does libel matter, or doesn't it ?

OF COURSE IT MATTERS!! Simple fact is though, it just hasn't happened. You used the liberal term non-stop with FJ, then got butt hurt when Kathianne called you one. No libel, no nothing. Someone tossed something at you that you did to another. Difference? FJ isn't crying that he was libeled, nor is FJ incorrectly understanding the law.

[Abbey Marie]

Jim, I wasn't going to bring this up, but- you libeled my Giants!

It's coming soon: Mara v Jimnyc

:eek:

[jimnyc]

Jim, I wasn't going to bring this up, but- you libeled my Giants!

It's coming soon: Mara v Jimnyc

:eek:

And I've done some SERIOUS libeling of Eli Manning!!

But if calling someone a name is libel? You know me better than most, what do you think, perhaps about 643 cases against me? And only that little as many of them are with the same individuals. :laugh:

[Abbey Marie]

And I've done some SERIOUS libeling of Eli Manning!!

But if calling someone a name is libel? You know me better than most, what do you think, perhaps about 643 cases against me? And only that little as many of them are with the same individuals. :laugh:


Well, if the word "bastards" is libelous, you've got a BIG problem!

And that's not even counting all your requests for pics of boobies.

:laugh2:

[Gunny]

Oh, it was a compliment. :) Reading posts like yours that aren't afraid to hold back sometimes = refreshing. But with all the nastiness and even name calling - nothing you post even remotely comes close to being libel.

I'm just trying to adjust to Drummond being offended being called a name on a message board. I like him, and he DOES offer a different perspective. But crap, I'd be in court forever if I sued everyone that called me a name. I could start with my first wife. My daughter thought my name was "asshole". Had to stop THAT crap. :laugh: My Marines called me a LOT worse when they thought I wasn't around.

So I don't get it. This is one of those "my give-a-shitters broke" things. I just want Drummond to calm down and let it go. How many pages is this thread?

[Motown]

Jim, I wasn't going to bring this up, but- you libeled my Giants!

It's coming soon: Mara v Jimnyc

:eek:

Your Giant's suck. It's not libel if it's true.