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NightTrain
09-30-2015, 09:14 PM
Just got back from a quick job at a major microwave & cellular hub. I know Gunny will get a kick out of this :

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7731&stc=1

This cable was feeding equipment servicing a large portion of this area... 911 traffic, internet, cell phones, etc. I ran another cable parallel to this prior to even touching this one, and I'm glad I did! As soon as I unbolted this lug, the cable literally pulled right out of the lug - the only thing holding it on was the heatshrink. The whole site would have died, and microwaves sometimes don't come right back up after getting dumped.

Somehow, the idiot that ran this cable in the picture decided that using a #1 lug on #4 cable would be okay. Noticing that it didn't even compress the copper whatsoever, he used heatshrink to hold it together. The smallest bump or even an earthquake could have easily taken the site down, creating a comm blackout which is No Bueno due to hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines for the 'Unplanned Outage'.

Not only was the lug not even close to being the right size, the cable wasn't stripped to insert fully into the lug, and then it was crimped twice instead of the indicated 3 times (as per the number of stripes on the lug).

This guy failed on every level and I'm looking forward to finding out whodunnit.

tailfins
09-30-2015, 09:20 PM
Just got back from a quick job at a major microwave & cellular hub. I know Gunny will get a kick out of this :

This cable was feeding equipment servicing a large portion of this area... 911 traffic, internet, cell phones, etc. I ran another cable parallel to this prior to even touching this one, and I'm glad I did! As soon as I unbolted this lug, the cable literally pulled right out of the lug - the only thing holding it on was the heatshrink. The whole site would have died, and microwaves sometimes don't come right back up after getting dumped.

Somehow, the idiot that ran this cable in the picture decided that using a #1 lug on #4 cable would be okay. Noticing that it didn't even compress the copper whatsoever, he used heatshrink to hold it together. The smallest bump or even an earthquake could have easily taken the site down, creating a comm blackout which is No Bueno due to hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines for the 'Unplanned Outage'.

Not only was the lug not even close to being the right size, the cable wasn't stripped to insert fully into the lug, and then it was crimped twice instead of the indicated 3 times (as per the number of stripes on the lug).

This guy failed on every level and I'm looking forward to finding out whodunnit.

It's the death of craftsmanship. You have given a fine example how costly that is. I face these kinds of issues with computer code.

Gunny
09-30-2015, 10:08 PM
Just got back from a quick job at a major microwave & cellular hub. I know Gunny will get a kick out of this :

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7731&stc=1

This cable was feeding equipment servicing a large portion of this area... 911 traffic, internet, cell phones, etc. I ran another cable parallel to this prior to even touching this one, and I'm glad I did! As soon as I unbolted this lug, the cable literally pulled right out of the lug - the only thing holding it on was the heatshrink. The whole site would have died, and microwaves sometimes don't come right back up after getting dumped.

Somehow, the idiot that ran this cable in the picture decided that using a #1 lug on #4 cable would be okay. Noticing that it didn't even compress the copper whatsoever, he used heatshrink to hold it together. The smallest bump or even an earthquake could have easily taken the site down, creating a comm blackout which is No Bueno due to hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines for the 'Unplanned Outage'.

Not only was the lug not even close to being the right size, the cable wasn't stripped to insert fully into the lug, and then it was crimped twice instead of the indicated 3 times (as per the number of stripes on the lug).

This guy failed on every level and I'm looking forward to finding out whodunnit.

Yeah, I'd have to agree. Unprofessional at EVERY level. You don't use the wrong size lugs PERIOD. And I've seen it more than once. There's a reason the crap has sizes on it. Probably got some dumbass shortcutter at cut rate. You get what you pay for. A moron that can't even strip wire to fit an oversized lug. There's brilliance at the highest level. I'd bet the wire itself is undersized for its load. People trying to save a dime. Never fails.

Get a Code Book and learn to calculate loads. Hell, I never passed algebra in school and I can calculate an electrical load. It's simple multiplication, division and percentages.

That and being able to read. I ought wire goes in a damned 1 ought lug. :laugh:

Gunny
09-30-2015, 10:13 PM
It's the death of craftsmanship. You have given a fine example how costly that is. I face these kinds of issues with computer code.

Of course it's costly. I shut down Rivercenter Mall in San Antonio because of someone else's shoddy workmanship. Most shops guarantee their work for a year and most work will last at least that long. They're betting on it.

But they're no different than anyone else. I happened to work for a couple of companies where you did it right or you got fired. I also worked for one briefly (that is out of business) we called shortcut electric. My supervisor would get pissed because I took more time than he wanted because I did the job right. Fire me for doing the job right, just put it on my resume please.

NightTrain
09-30-2015, 11:56 PM
Yeah, I'd have to agree. Unprofessional at EVERY level. You don't use the wrong size lugs PERIOD. And I've seen it more than once. There's a reason the crap has sizes on it. Probably got some dumbass shortcutter at cut rate. You get what you pay for. A moron that can't even strip wire to fit an oversized lug. There's brilliance at the highest level. I'd bet the wire itself is undersized for its load. People trying to save a dime. Never fails.

Get a Code Book and learn to calculate loads. Hell, I never passed algebra in school and I can calculate an electrical load. It's simple multiplication, division and percentages.

That and being able to read. I ought wire goes in a damned 1 ought lug. :laugh:


Yeah, 4 AWG is way overkill for the max load the equipment can draw in that rack... overbuilding is a standard because of unforeseen technology and new equipment down the road and no one wants to re-cable every site, so go big the first time! Almost all of the equipment is running on 2 Amp fuses from the fuse panel and they normally are drawing less than 1 Amp after the initial startup surge.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure I can get two 4 AWG cables into the one 1 AWG lug! I think I'll try it tomorrow just to see.

The bright side is that having lazy idiots doing stuff like that makes more work for me. Easy money, I'll take it.

NightTrain
09-30-2015, 11:58 PM
Oh, and another thing : Notice the complete lack of No-Ox on it? :laugh:

Seriously, there wasn't one thing done right and this is the simplest of stuff!

Gunny
10-01-2015, 12:04 AM
Oh, and another thing : Notice the complete lack of No-Ox on it? :laugh:

Seriously, there wasn't one thing done right and this is the simplest of stuff!

Don't need it unless something aluminum. I'm just looking at the size of the terminal, the size of the wire, and that thumbnail long strip job. Somebody didn't know what the F*CK they were doing.

NightTrain
10-01-2015, 12:10 AM
Don't need it unless something aluminum. I'm just looking at the size of the terminal, the size of the wire, and that thumbnail long strip job. Somebody didn't know what the F*CK they were doing.


Code here is No-Ox on everything. I probably have a gallon of that stuff laying around in various toolbags in those little white plastic containers.

Here's what I still have to fix after getting the green light for taking the site down - this is the battery rack side :

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7732&stc=1

And here is the equipment rack side :

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7733&stc=1

Appallingly shoddy work. I'm truly surprised the site hasn't taken a dive on it's own.

Gunny
10-01-2015, 12:14 AM
Code here is No-Ox on everything. I probably have a gallon of that stuff laying around in various toolbags in those little white plastic containers.

Here's what I still have to fix after getting the green light for taking the site down - this is the battery rack side :

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7732&stc=1

And here is the equipment rack side :

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7733&stc=1

Appallingly shoddy work. I'm truly surprised the site hasn't taken a dive on it's own.

Must be local code. I hate No Lox. Never had to use it on copper though.

You were talking about military humor so ... we'd No Lox the hell out of a bender and send the rookie to get it. :laugh:

NightTrain
10-01-2015, 12:19 AM
Must be local code. I hate No Lox. Never had to use it on copper though.

You were talking about military humor so ... we'd No Lox the hell out of a bender and send the rookie to get it. :laugh:


Bender? Conduit Bender? You have to remember I'm a telecom specialty... some of your Sparky jargon will throw me.

I don't care for the stuff, but it does work great. What gets my goat are the knuckleheads that just gob that stuff on because they don't want their hands to get dirty, instead of a nice thin sheen.

Gunny
10-01-2015, 12:31 AM
Bender? Conduit Bender? You have to remember I'm a telecom specialty... some of your Sparky jargon will throw me.

I don't care for the stuff, but it does work great. What gets my goat are the knuckleheads that just gob that stuff on because they don't want their hands to get dirty, instead of a nice thin sheen.

Yes. 3/4" EMT bender.

Our stuff is steel/alloy and copper. Copper doesn't require No Lox. We only had to use it if we used aluminum wire. That crap makes a mess on everything. Have to remember, you work on a LOT smaller stuff than we do. While I have general knowledge, I was usually handling 400 wire, 5 at a time. The lowest we went was #12 to the actual outlets. You guys take over from there. ANd if you run comm crap, I know how to run it, but it's YOUR job to terminate. I haven't ripped off cable since the 90s. Now they got all these damned boxes n crap.:laugh:

NightTrain
10-01-2015, 12:42 AM
Yes. 3/4" EMT bender.

Our stuff is steel/alloy and copper. Copper doesn't require No Lox. We only had to use it if we used aluminum wire. That crap makes a mess on everything. Have to remember, you work on a LOT smaller stuff than we do. While I have general knowledge, I was usually handling 400 wire, 5 at a time. The lowest we went was #12 to the actual outlets. You guys take over from there. ANd if you run comm crap, I know how to run it, but it's YOUR job to terminate. I haven't ripped off cable since the 90s. Now they got all these damned boxes n crap.:laugh:


Biggest I've ever worked with is 750. I was the only guy in the company that knew how to lace, and that's a bitch doing the quad-strand stitching... my hands were bleeding by the end of the day, every day, it didn't matter how many wraps of 88 I had around my fingers. To get that big stuff tight, you have to pull like a mofo and that damn wax string really cuts into your hand. Still, there's a large amount of pride seeing your flawless work at the end of it all.

Lacing is beautiful, and it's traditional, and it's superior in strength than ty-raps, but really it's unnecessary these days. Ty-raps on the ladder rack hold just fine on the horizontal runs - that's not to say it would do the trick on vertical shots, though. But, if you're going to do work for Verizon or AT&T or Sprint or Ericsson or any of the other big boys, well... you're going to have some chewed up hands by the end! It's all lacing, every bit of it. Even a single Ethernet cable gets it's own paper & lacing. And there'd better not be even ONE roll in your stitching, either!

Gunny
10-01-2015, 12:55 AM
Biggest I've ever worked with is 750. I was the only guy in the company that knew how to lace, and that's a bitch doing the quad-strand stitching... my hands were bleeding by the end of the day, every day, it didn't matter how many wraps of 88 I had around my fingers. To get that big stuff tight, you have to pull like a mofo and that damn wax string really cuts into your hand. Still, there's a large amount of pride seeing your flawless work at the end of it all.

Lacing is beautiful, and it's traditional, and it's superior in strength than ty-raps, but really it's unnecessary these days. Ty-raps on the ladder rack hold just fine on the horizontal runs - that's not to say it would do the trick on vertical shots, though. But, if you're going to do work for Verizon or AT&T or Sprint or Ericsson or any of the other big boys, well... you're going to have some chewed up hands by the end! It's all lacing, every bit of it. Even a single Ethernet cable gets it's own paper & lacing. And there'd better not be even ONE roll in your stitching, either!

I'm not sure what lacing is. I can't play with little wire. My hands are too big. You talking about those tray racks and that gobbeldy-gook wad of wires y'all run in them? And that's not a put down. Y'all do your shit and I do mine. Just wish y'all weren't so damned picky about shit. Have to have a special board. Specific outlets that are on their own circuit.

NightTrain
10-01-2015, 01:15 AM
I'm not sure what lacing is. I can't play with little wire. My hands are too big. You talking about those tray racks and that gobbeldy-gook wad of wires y'all run in them? And that's not a put down. Y'all do your shit and I do mine. Just wish y'all weren't so damned picky about shit. Have to have a special board.

Stitching... lacing. Like the Kansas City Stitch, you know what I'm talking about.

Like this, using the waxed nylon cord :

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7735&stc=1



Specific outlets that are on their own circuit.

lol, absolutely critical! Gotta have designated power circuits for the interior of the room for equipment that MUST be powered, and the wall outlets are free game for tripping breakers because your Sawz-All is a beast! First thing you teach an apprentice is never to draw off the outlets in the racks, always go to the wall.

Gunny
10-01-2015, 01:28 AM
Stitching... lacing. Like the Kansas City Stitch, you know what I'm talking about.

Like this, using the waxed nylon cord :

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7735&stc=1




lol, absolutely critical! Gotta have designated power circuits for the interior of the room for equipment that MUST be powered, and the wall outlets are free game for tripping breakers because your Sawz-All is a beast! First thing you teach an apprentice is never to draw off the outlets in the racks, always go to the wall.

Oh I understand the drill. I can also tell you that you don't always get what you ask for. Even if I run you separate electrical circuits, they STILL go back to the same panel as the rest. You have to have a clean and separate panel with separate grounding to not be on the grid. That you're getting something special with separate circuits and your own piece of plywood with industrial boxes is an illusion. The neutral and ground are all going to the same place everything else does. Everyone thinks in terms of voltage but it's the return and the ground that matter. If the box gets hit, everything's going through those two, not the power and the power ain't crap compared to getting hit by a dirty neutral.

That's why I laugh at these goofs and their tasers. I'm like go ahead, make my day. :laugh: It's nothing but voltage. I got hit by more the first week on the job AND I know how to make it not work.

NightTrain
10-01-2015, 01:37 AM
Oh I understand the drill. I can also tell you that you don't always get what you ask for. Even if I run you separate electrical circuits, they STILL go back to the same panel as the rest. You have to have a clean and separate panel with separate grounding to not be on the grid. That you're getting something special with separate circuits and your own piece of plywood with industrial boxes is an illusion. The neutral and ground are all going to the same place everything else does. Everyone thinks in terms of voltage but it's the return and the ground that matter. If the box gets hit, everything's going through those two, not the power and the power ain't crap compared to getting hit by a dirty neutral.

That's why I laugh at these goofs and their tasers. I'm like go ahead, make my day. :laugh: It's nothing but voltage. I got hit by more the first week on the job AND I know how to make it not work.


Yeah, I've gotten bitten more than a few times. Probably the worst is the 277 fluorescent lighting voltage. That stuff has a nasty sting to it... I've done a little jig-jig dance while perched on the top of a 10' ladder trying to get the hell away from it. Sparky apprentice didn't have his wires taped up and it was juicing the entire drop-ceiling grid, the little shithead.

Gunny
10-01-2015, 01:51 AM
Yeah, I've gotten bitten more than a few times. Probably the worst is the 277 fluorescent lighting voltage. That stuff has a nasty sting to it... I've done a little jig-jig dance while perched on the top of a 10' ladder trying to get the hell away from it. Sparky apprentice didn't have his wires taped up and it was juicing the entire drop-ceiling grid, the little shithead.

Ding ding ding .. you got THAT right. The return on 277 is a f-ing bitch.

I HATE fuckers that don't tape their damned wires.

Fuck, the company buys the damned shit. Use it.