Nutcase shoots dozens in Oregon community college

[Little-Acorn]

Somebody with one or more guns, killed at least ten people this morning in an Oregon community college in Roseburg, OR, and wounded a dozen or two more. Early reports are sketchy (as usual), and seem to change every 15 minutes or so. By this time tomorrow, the numbers will almost certainly be different.

The college had a rule banning guns on campus. The shooter, who obviously had no problem violating our laws against murder, also violated the college's no-guns rule, to the surprise of the officials who made the law.

http://seattle.cbslocal.com/2015/10/01/oregon-community-college-shooting/
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-nn-oregon-community-college-shooting-20151001-story.html

Whenever something like this happens, we always go through the usual "Oh my, why did he do it, what caused him to do it, what could we have done to prevent this" litany. Every time. I suppose it's only natural to think those things after some horrible tragedy like this.

But wondering what we could have done to prevent it, doesn't mean there WAS anything we could have done.

But I can probably predict how things will go - since they have gone this way for every other mass murder like this.

The shooter's motives will be analyzed... and it will be found that he didn't really have any "normal" motives. He didn't hate the thirty or forty people he shot. He didn't even know most of them, perhaps didn't know any of them at all.

It will be found that he was a loner who was unhappy and a little weird, but not obviously homicidal. And/or his girlfriend jilted him last week. Or that he got a reprimand on his job. Or got a speeding ticket in his car. Or that he just got back from Iraq where he was greatly stressed. Or that his parents he was living with (if he was) suggested that he get off his duff and get a job. Or he got up two mornings ago, saw a green tree with a red bird in it, and decided from that to go and kill a bunch of people. Or some other thing happened that people can point to as the "trigger" that set him off.

And nobody, but nobody, will point out the fact that the thing that "set him off", is something that happens to various people every day, by the thousands or millions across this country... and none of THEM got a gun and started blasting away at everyone in sight. Not even the loners who were unhappy and a little weird... of which there are lots, in this country of 300 million people.

Why did he do it? Because there was something broken inside his head.

Not something that caused him to lurch around, drooling and babbling and slapping himself. But something that remained pretty much hidden, until a "stimulus" that hundreds of thousands of people get every day, happened to him this time. And the broken thing inside his head caused him to react very differently from the way everyone else has reacted over the eons.

What could have we done to prevent it? Not a damned thing. Because we don't have a "broken thing detector". Nothing else could have foretold that he would do this.

Even if we did have a "broken thing detector", it would probably register on 10% of the population, or more... the vast majority of whom will still never shoot anybody. What we don't know about the inner workings of the brain, would fill books, volumes, encyclopedia sets... if we knew enough about it to write them, which we don't. The "psychologists" we will see on TV for the next several weeks, are completely ignorant of what was wrong with this guy... and the honest ones will tell you that straight out. But those aren't the ones who will be on TV.

Well, that's what will happen over the next weeks. And a few people will say that if we make some laws about certain things, we will have "done something about it"... with no particular reason to think they will have any actual effect on the next guy with a broken thing inside his head.

Here we go again. As we did last time, and the time before that, and the time before that.

Useful result: ZERO. Just like last time, etc.

[Gunny]

Great. This ought to get the anti-gun fruitloops ranting.

Jeez, if you're going to kill someone use a knife, sword or baseball bat please.

[Black Diamond]

Obama politicizing in 5, 4, 3 , 2....

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Great. This ought to get the anti-gun fruitloops ranting.

Jeez, if you're going to kill someone use a knife, sword or baseball bat please.

When have the ffing loons ever stopped ranting? Tyr

[WiccanLiberal]

I am also discussing this on another board.
I know a few things. Oregon has mandatory background checks for all gun transfers and sales. They had regulations prohibiting weapons on this campus. The city of Kennesaw, GA has a rule on the books requiring all households to have at least one gun and ammunition. Kennesaw had an almost 90% drop in crime after passing that ordinance. People in Kennasaw are hard targets in the minds of criminals. The absolute hard truth is that if a head case gets hold of a gun, the police CANNOT protect you. A person on scene with a weapon can. Three years ago, V4R and I were in a low lying area in the middle of a flood zone in the path of Hurricane Sandy. It became apparent that the police would be unable to assist us in the event of a looter attack. They could never have reached us. The answer was to make sure there was ammunition for both the rifle and the shotgun. I was told that if someone came through the door with bad intent, that shotgun should be aimed at them and fired. Police CANNOT stop a crime from happening. They are there to clean up the mess afterward. I would rather be explaining the mess than be the mess.

[LongTermGuy]

.....Listening...watching the news...."They" are curious why hasn't the 20 year old shooters name has not been released...*and "who" is putting a hold on it and "why".....from what I saw / heard ..."the shooter was asking what religion the victims were before he shot them".....

Time will tell.....

....Interesting how quickly `o`got on tv.....


*One more thing....The American hero who stopped the muslim train attack in Europe....coincidentally..was from that same school...

[Abbey Marie]

I just read that before he shot, he asked people, "What is your religion?" Needs to be confirmed, though.

[Trigg]

Apparently one of the heros from the Paris train shooting was from that town and attended the college where this shooting happened. His mother works there as well.

Way to big of a coincidence for me.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/10/01/france-train-hero-former-umpqua-college-student-alek-skarlatos-goes-record-discuss-oregon

[tailfins]

At least the shooter wasn't wearing a Confederate flag. The liberals are likely happy about that.

[LongTermGuy]

At least the shooter wasn't wearing a Confederate flag. The liberals are likely happy about that.



.....Since you brought it up..... I doubt it.......but you knew that.

[Black Diamond]

Obama politicizing in 5, 4, 3 , 2....

Sure enough.. Instead of holding the country together..

Gun control. The dipshit couldn't lead a whore to bed.

[KarlMarx]

Obama would not bat an eyelash if someone told him 13 late term abortions had taken place instead .... In fact as of yesterday he was willing to shut down the government over the issue of abortion.... It seems ironic that he feigns indignant self righteous anger over the shooting of 13 innocent people while defending the right to murder unborn children

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[LongTermGuy]

UPDATES: Shooter Identified – Oregon Community College Shooting – Pre Planned Act of Jihad – Warning Posted Yesterday… (http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/10/01/oregon-community-college-shooting-pre-planned-act-of-jihad-warning-posted-yesterday/)



https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/chris-harper-mercer.jpg?w=640

Shooter ID’d as 26-year-old “Chris Harper Mercer” ♦Last night an anonymous poster on the Website 4Chan posted a warning of an intent to carry out an attack at a Northwest U.S. Community College (CACHE HERE (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:OZGEjT1ilSUJ:https://archive.moe/r9k/post/22785729/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)). ♦ Today an attack was carried out:

According to this Local report: (http://bnonews.com/news/index.php/tags/tag/id/808/) The gunman who opened fire at Umpqua Community College in Oregon asked victims to state their religion before opening fire, according to multiple reports. An 18-year-old student told the News-Review newspaper that the gunman, after shooting her teacher in the head through a window, told people to get on the ground. He then told people to stand up and state their religion before opening fire. Twitter user @BodhiLooney, who said her grandma was at the school, said the shooter asked people if they were Christian. “If they said yes, then they were shot in the head,” she wrote. “If they said no, or didn’t answer, they were shot in the legs.”

Chris Harper Mercer is Social Media friends (My Space) with only two people. One of those people is Mahmoud Ali Ehsani (https://myspace.com/dick_hard_like_a_pistol/photos) as noted above.
♦ If you look at the profile of Mahmoud Ali Ehsani (aka: ” Dick_hard_like_a_pistol (https://myspace.com/dick_hard_like_a_pistol/photos) ” ) what you find is a propensity toward Islamic Extremism and Jihad. Here’s a sample:


More:

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/10/01/oregon-community-college-shooting-pre-planned-act-of-jihad-warning-posted-yesterday/


https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/cqrilzzweaazg-v.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&strip=all


Nut Case ....

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

UPDATES: Shooter Identified – Oregon Community College Shooting – Pre Planned Act of Jihad – Warning Posted Yesterday… (http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/10/01/oregon-community-college-shooting-pre-planned-act-of-jihad-warning-posted-yesterday/)



https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/chris-harper-mercer.jpg?w=640

Shooter ID’d as 26-year-old “Chris Harper Mercer” ♦Last night an anonymous poster on the Website 4Chan posted a warning of an intent to carry out an attack at a Northwest U.S. Community College (CACHE HERE (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:OZGEjT1ilSUJ:https://archive.moe/r9k/post/22785729/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)). ♦ Today an attack was carried out:

According to this Local report: (http://bnonews.com/news/index.php/tags/tag/id/808/) The gunman who opened fire at Umpqua Community College in Oregon asked victims to state their religion before opening fire, according to multiple reports. An 18-year-old student told the News-Review newspaper that the gunman, after shooting her teacher in the head through a window, told people to get on the ground. He then told people to stand up and state their religion before opening fire. Twitter user @BodhiLooney, who said her grandma was at the school, said the shooter asked people if they were Christian. “If they said yes, then they were shot in the head,” she wrote. “If they said no, or didn’t answer, they were shot in the legs.”

Chris Harper Mercer is Social Media friends (My Space) with only two people. One of those people is Mahmoud Ali Ehsani (https://myspace.com/dick_hard_like_a_pistol/photos) as noted above.
♦ If you look at the profile of Mahmoud Ali Ehsani (aka: ” Dick_hard_like_a_pistol (https://myspace.com/dick_hard_like_a_pistol/photos) ” ) what you find is a propensity toward Islamic Extremism and Jihad. Here’s a sample:


More:

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/10/01/oregon-community-college-shooting-pre-planned-act-of-jihad-warning-posted-yesterday/


https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/cqrilzzweaazg-v.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&strip=all


Nut Case ....

I was fairly sure that he was a damn muzzie when I read he was asking what religion the victims were before shooting them.

1,2,3, 4, 5.......
How long before the resident muslim defender here rushes in to try to justify this murdering bastards cause/religion or else attempt to deny it was connect to his beloved murdering cult !!??--Tyr

[sundaydriver]

I was fairly sure that he was a damn muzzie when I read he was asking what religion the victims were before shooting them.-Tyr

Crazy people ask crazy questions. Early reports have as his only link to any religion is his online writings of not liking any organized religion. Asking victims if Christian assured him of the largest & quickest victims. Always go with the odds.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/10/02/ore-shooter-left-behind-online-portrait-of-a-lonely-youth-with-a-grudge-against-religion/

[Gunny]

.....Listening...watching the news...."They" are curious why hasn't the 20 year old shooters name has not been released...*and "who" is putting a hold on it and "why".....from what I saw / heard ..."the shooter was asking what religion the victims were before he shot them".....

Time will tell.....

....Interesting how quickly `o`got on tv.....


*One more thing....The American hero who stopped the muslim train attack in Europe....coincidentally..was from that same school...

His as was right on top of that. Maybe he ought to be as quick to respond to international stuff.

[Black Diamond]

His as was right on top of that. Maybe he ought to be as quick to respond to international stuff.

Yeah Putin made a fool out of him.

[Gunny]

Yeah Putin made a fool out of him.

You left out the "more than twice" part.

[LongTermGuy]

His as was right on top of that. Maybe he ought to be as quick to respond to international stuff.


Yup...I know what you mean...

[Gunny]

Yup...I know what you mean...

I'll be damned before someone punks me out like that. We have air superiority. Use it. People like to Balu like to brag about their planes but always our pilots that womp their asses. It ain't the equipment.

[Black Diamond]

I'll be damned before someone punks me out like that. We have air superiority. Use it. People like to Balu like to brag about their planes but always our pilots that womp their asses. It ain't the equipment.

16 months is a long time. Putin may control the entire Middle East with that much inaction.

[Gunny]

16 months is a long time. Putin may control the entire Middle East with that much inaction.

He's all worried about his "legacy" and yet he's the most politically destructive president I've ever seen. I thought Carter was bad but he didn't have shit on O-blah-blah.

[DLT]

Somebody with one or more guns, killed at least ten people this morning in an Oregon community college in Roseburg, OR, and wounded a dozen or two more. Early reports are sketchy (as usual), and seem to change every 15 minutes or so. By this time tomorrow, the numbers will almost certainly be different.

The college had a rule banning guns on campus. The shooter, who obviously had no problem violating our laws against murder, also violated the college's no-guns rule, to the surprise of the officials who made the law.

http://seattle.cbslocal.com/2015/10/01/oregon-community-college-shooting/
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-nn-oregon-community-college-shooting-20151001-story.html

Whenever something like this happens, we always go through the usual "Oh my, why did he do it, what caused him to do it, what could we have done to prevent this" litany. Every time. I suppose it's only natural to think those things after some horrible tragedy like this.

But wondering what we could have done to prevent it, doesn't mean there WAS anything we could have done.

But I can probably predict how things will go - since they have gone this way for every other mass murder like this.

The shooter's motives will be analyzed... and it will be found that he didn't really have any "normal" motives. He didn't hate the thirty or forty people he shot. He didn't even know most of them, perhaps didn't know any of them at all.

It will be found that he was a loner who was unhappy and a little weird, but not obviously homicidal. And/or his girlfriend jilted him last week. Or that he got a reprimand on his job. Or got a speeding ticket in his car. Or that he just got back from Iraq where he was greatly stressed. Or that his parents he was living with (if he was) suggested that he get off his duff and get a job. Or he got up two mornings ago, saw a green tree with a red bird in it, and decided from that to go and kill a bunch of people. Or some other thing happened that people can point to as the "trigger" that set him off.

And nobody, but nobody, will point out the fact that the thing that "set him off", is something that happens to various people every day, by the thousands or millions across this country... and none of THEM got a gun and started blasting away at everyone in sight. Not even the loners who were unhappy and a little weird... of which there are lots, in this country of 300 million people.

Why did he do it? Because there was something broken inside his head.

Not something that caused him to lurch around, drooling and babbling and slapping himself. But something that remained pretty much hidden, until a "stimulus" that hundreds of thousands of people get every day, happened to him this time. And the broken thing inside his head caused him to react very differently from the way everyone else has reacted over the eons.

What could have we done to prevent it? Not a damned thing. Because we don't have a "broken thing detector". Nothing else could have foretold that he would do this.

Even if we did have a "broken thing detector", it would probably register on 10% of the population, or more... the vast majority of whom will still never shoot anybody. What we don't know about the inner workings of the brain, would fill books, volumes, encyclopedia sets... if we knew enough about it to write them, which we don't. The "psychologists" we will see on TV for the next several weeks, are completely ignorant of what was wrong with this guy... and the honest ones will tell you that straight out. But those aren't the ones who will be on TV.

Well, that's what will happen over the next weeks. And a few people will say that if we make some laws about certain things, we will have "done something about it"... with no particular reason to think they will have any actual effect on the next guy with a broken thing inside his head.

Here we go again. As we did last time, and the time before that, and the time before that.

Useful result: ZERO. Just like last time, etc.

The guy targeted Christians. So he had some kind of religious motivation right there. Now was he a Muslim? We don't know yet. But all of these murderers have one thing in common. They all do apparently bow down to evil....ie Satan. That is their religion, first and foremost. Any other motive comes second, IMO.

While Obama uses this latest example of terrorism, homegrown albeit, to further his anti-gun agenda....one thing is crystal clear. Had enough folks been armed on that campus, the whacko nutjob may have only managed to kill one person before he got his ass blown away. That's the graph/flowchart I want to see.....where it shows how many lives have been saved by gun owners killing the bad guys first, before they could kill anyone else.

[Gunny]

The guy targeted Christians. So he had some kind of religious motivation right there. Now was he a Muslim? We don't know yet. But all of these murderers have one thing in common. They all do apparently bow down to evil....ie Satan. That is their religion, first and foremost. Any other motive comes second, IMO.

While Obama uses this latest example of terrorism, homegrown albeit, to further his anti-gun agenda....one thing is crystal clear. Had enough folks been armed on that campus, the whacko nutjob may have only managed to kill one person before he got his ass blown away. That's the graph/flowchart I want to see.....where it shows how many lives have been saved by gun owners killing the bad guys first, before they could kill anyone else.

The flow chart I want to see is the one that reflects what Obama does and doesn't comment on.

[WiccanLiberal]

According to news media he was also a supporters of the IRA. Largely a Catholic organization. Odd thought but Catholics generally identify by that designation while protestants will frequently say Christian. Food for thought.

[Gunny]

According to news media he was also a supporters of the IRA. Largely a Catholic organization. Odd thought but Catholics generally identify by that designation while protestants will frequently say Christian. Food for thought.

It's an unexplainable food for thought. The answer lies in the separation of the Catholic Church created by Henry VIII. He wanted a divorce, the Pope threatened to excommunicate him, so he made his own church. The Anglican church he created is where protestants come from.

But why Catholics don't identify themselves as Christians beats me.

[Black Diamond]

Did shooter admire IRA because of their cause or because of their tactics?

[Motown]

It will be interesting to see if any charges are brought against any of the 4Chan members who read the threat and did nothing.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

[QUOTE=DLT;767527]The guy targeted Christians. So he had some kind of religious motivation right there. Now was he a Muslim? We don't know yet. But all of these murderers have one thing in common. They all do apparently bow down to evil....ie Satan. That is their religion, first and foremost. Any other motive comes second, IMO.

While Obama uses this latest example of terrorism, homegrown albeit, to further his anti-gun agenda....one thing is crystal clear. Had enough folks been armed on that campus, the whacko nutjob may have only managed to kill one person before he got his ass blown away. That's the graph/flowchart I want to see.....where it shows how many lives have been saved by gun owners killing the bad guys first, before they could kill anyone else.[/QUOTE



See longtermguy's post

Yesterday, 09:02 PM #13

He had a stinking muslim connection,that is unless that has since been proven to be false!--Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

[QUOTE=WiccanLiberal;767537]According to news media he was also a supporters of the IRA. Largely a Catholic organization. Odd thought but Catholics generally identify by that designation while protestants will frequently say Christian. Food for thought.[/QUOT

See longtermguy's post

Yesterday, 09:02 PM #13

He had a stinking muslim connection,that is unless that has since been proven to be false!--Tyr

[WiccanLiberal]

Did shooter admire IRA because of their cause or because of their tactics?

Unclear to me. Still not a lot of coverage on motive related stuff and since I am at work limited time for research. Just coming off lunch now.

[DLT]

The flow chart I want to see is the one that reflects what Obama does and doesn't comment on.

Oh, we don't need a flowchart for that. He comments on two things. Either race-baiting issues pro-blacks (always)....or when it pertains to any excuse at all that he can push his anti-gun ownership/anti-2nd Amendment agenda. At least he is consistent re: that.

[Gunny]

Unclear to me. Still not a lot of coverage on motive related stuff and since I am at work limited time for research. Just coming off lunch now.

There won't be. Obama's political agenda is to fixate on the tool that was used, not the person that used it. All I heard him say was it was about the gun, no mention of the man.

In THAT case, better outlaw my hands, arms and shoulders. Take away all my tools .... it's a ridiculous argument.

These people that use firearms to commit murder are just lazy to me. They can't shoot worth a damn and don't know how to kill. When they do, they just get lucky. And I'm just being analytical btw. I don't need a gun, but based on the argument, might as well outlaw pencils because they're weapons. Put one through your eye and you're dead.

[Abbey Marie]

Crazy people ask crazy questions. Early reports have as his only link to any religion is his online writings of not liking any organized religion. Asking victims if Christian assured him of the largest & quickest victims. Always go with the odds.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/10/02/ore-shooter-left-behind-online-portrait-of-a-lonely-youth-with-a-grudge-against-religion/


Oh, so he only asked if they were Christians to get a larger sample? That is such a stretch, I cannot believe anyone even would say it.

[Trigg]

Oh, so he only asked if they were Christians to get a larger sample? That is such a stretch, I cannot believe anyone even would say it.

Completely agree, there has to be a larger reason for this attack.

I still can't get over the fact that one of the guys from the Paris terrorist attack attended this school. IMHO this is to much of a coincidence to be random on the part of the shooter.

[Gunny]

Completely agree, there has to be a larger reason for this attack.

I still can't get over the fact that one of the guys from the Paris terrorist attack attended this school. IMHO this is to much of a coincidence to be random on the part of the shooter.

Yeah, it's called lashing out and finding an excuse. I don't think it had a thing to do with religion in this case. But everyone needs an excuse to justify their actions. Hell, if I'm killing a bunch of people it's because I decided to kill a bunch of people and I don't need an excuse nor to justify my actions. It is what it is.

I don't even care what this weenie's excuse is. Out back and one to the head. Giving a crap about what he has to say doesn't bring back his victims. WE as a society need to quit focusing on the "why" and just dispense the virus.

[Nonnie]

I find it concerning and sad that the posters haven't shown any empathy for the victim's families. They're just concerned about protecting their guns, Obama and whether religion was involved.

One day, that could be your child, never mind, as long as we keep our guns.

[Motown]

I find it concerning and sad that the posters haven't shown any empathy for the victim's families. They're just concerned about protecting their guns, Obama and whether religion was involved.

One day, that could be your child, never mind, as long as we keep our guns.

I think the motive is everything here. Some of us don't believe this was random. This is way beyond individuals.

[Abbey Marie]

I find it concerning and sad that the posters haven't shown any empathy for the victim's families. They're just concerned about protecting their guns, Obama and whether religion was involved.

One day, that could be your child, never mind, as long as we keep our guns.


Well, actually, if we keep our guns, it less likely to be our children one day.

Of course, we have empathy. But how would typed words of empathy help anything?

And if I'm going to point the finger at someone who is giving the wrong emphasis to the event, I'd point it at Obama for making political points from it about 3 nanoseconds after the incident.

[Gunny]

I find it concerning and sad that the posters haven't shown any empathy for the victim's families. They're just concerned about protecting their guns, Obama and whether religion was involved.

One day, that could be your child, never mind, as long as we keep our guns.

We don't know them. People don't show a lot of empathy for people they don't know. I personally get tired of the RIP threads for some media star. To me, it sounds like "we support the troops".

AND Obama made it about guns. The anti-gun people ALWAYS make it about guns. And you miss the point. The gun didn't do a thing. It's a tool. My child can get hit by a bus. So let's outllaw them. And apparently you aren't reading. I don't need a gun. I can take you out with my hands. A sword or preferably to me a double set of knives. When I have my electrical tool pouch on? I got 20 pounds worth of assorted weapons. This whole blaming the tool argument is just another excuse.

Otherwise, it's about a fruitcake losing his mind.

[Nonnie]

Well, actually, if we keep our guns, it less likely to be our children one day.

Of course, we have empathy. But how would typed words of empathy help anything?

And if I'm going to point the finger at someone who is giving the wrong emphasis to the event, I'd point it at Obama for making it political points from it about 3 nanoseconds after the incident.

So how did having guns help the college students that were shot? I'm puzzled.

[Black Diamond]

I find it concerning and sad that the posters haven't shown any empathy for the victim's families. They're just concerned about protecting their guns, Obama and whether religion was involved.

One day, that could be your child, never mind, as long as we keep our guns.

Obama made it about taking our guns away. Or did you miss that? Where was his concern? It could be Sasha and malia next but you didn't go there.

[jimnyc]

So how did having guns help the college students that were shot? I'm puzzled.

But NOT allowing guns could have hurt. In fact, one of the heroes from the train attack in France was there and heard the shots, and they wouldn't let him go assist. That's what so many of us point out so very often - that criminals don't care about rules and regulations like this. It's possible that security could have helped here. Gun regulations like this, and elsewhere, only serve to take guns away from law abiding citizens.

[jimnyc]

Obama made it about taking our guns away. Or did you miss that? Where was his concern? It could be Sasha and malia next but you didn't go there.

He spoke out quickly, which is good, which he seems to do when it is something that helps his agenda. But he STILL never speaks up if it's things like illegals killing good Americans. Somehow he loses his voice if speaking up won't support his agenda.

[Nonnie]

But NOT allowing guns could have hurt. In fact, one of the heroes from the train attack in France was there and heard the shots, and they wouldn't let him go assist. That's what so many of us point out so very often - that criminals don't care about rules and regulations like this. It's possible that security could have helped here. Gun regulations like this, and elsewhere, only serve to take guns away from law abiding citizens.

That's good, but the question was, how did having guns help the students in the college? Not in any other situation, but this actual one.

[Nonnie]

Obama made it about taking our guns away. Or did you miss that? Where was his concern? It could be Sasha and malia next but you didn't go there.

I didn't miss that.

What I'm interested in knowing is how having guns helped the students that were shot in the college.

How did having guns protect them, to make them safe?

[Trigg]

Yeah, it's called lashing out and finding an excuse. I don't think it had a thing to do with religion in this case. But everyone needs an excuse to justify their actions. Hell, if I'm killing a bunch of people it's because I decided to kill a bunch of people and I don't need an excuse nor to justify my actions. It is what it is.

I don't even care what this weenie's excuse is. Out back and one to the head. Giving a crap about what he has to say doesn't bring back his victims. WE as a society need to quit focusing on the "why" and just dispense the virus.

I think you misunderstood me. I'm glad he's dead and we don't have to worry about providing him 3 hots and a cot.

My point it is too much of a coincidence that one of the hero's from Paris, that stopped a Muslim terrorist from killing dozens of people, came from this VERY small town and attended this same college.

I think if anyone bothered to dig deeper they'd find that someone is pulling the strings and picked this college in order to terrorize the family and friends of the men involved in the Paris attack.

[Trigg]

I didn't miss that.

What I'm interested in knowing is how having guns helped the students that were shot in the college.

How did having guns protect them, to make them safe?

None did!!! Unfortunately the ONE security officer wasn't allowed to carry. If he had been there could possibly have been a completely different ending to this tragedy.

[jimnyc]

That's good, but the question was, how did having guns help the students in the college? Not in any other situation, but this actual one.

It didn't, because guns were not allowed in that school, therefore the only one with a gun there was the perpetrator.

[Gunny]

So how did having guns help the college students that were shot? I'm puzzled.

Because law abiding citizens can't take guns into a "gun free zone". But criminals DO.

[Nonnie]

It didn't, because guns were not allowed in that school, therefore the only one with a gun there was the perpetrator.

And if the perpetrator didn't have access to guns?

[Nonnie]

Because law abiding citizens can't take guns into a "gun free zone". But criminals DO.

Was the young man involved doing the shootings a known criminal?

[Gunny]

Was the young man involved doing the shootings a known criminal?

Are ANY of these type events done by known criminals? Only one that comes close is the University of Virginia whack job because a judge refused to call him a whack job. It STILL isn't about the gun. It's the whackadoodle holding it. You're fixated on the gun and not the person even thought I've said more than once, I don't need a gun. If I'm going to kill someone Hell better freeze over if you think you're stopping ME.

You need to stop avoiding the point that it's the person, not the tool.

[jimnyc]

And if the perpetrator didn't have access to guns?

Good luck with that, as criminals don't follow any rules or laws. Chicago has the the toughest gun laws in the entire nation, and the place is filled with gun battles daily. We have another city in Georgia where it is MANDATORY to own a gun, and there hasn't been a murder there in a long, long, long time.

[jimnyc]

Are ANY of these type events done by known criminals? Only one that comes close is the University of Virginia whack job because a judge refused to call him a whack job. It STILL isn't about the gun. It's the whackadoodle holding it. You're fixated on the gun and not the person even thought I've said more than once, I don't need a gun. If I'm going to kill someone Hell better freeze over if you think you're stopping ME.

You need to stop avoiding the point that it's the person, not the tool.

That argument you'll never win. I read about a Chinese guy that killed over 10 recently, with a knife. I've seen a few incidents in the past month alone where folks were purposely run down by vehicles. You name a way of killing, and it's been done. The issue is the person wanting to do the killing, not what he/she decides to perform his/her crime with. If you ban one, other ways will be found. One of the worst school killings ever was with a bomb.

[Gunny]

That argument you'll never win. I read about a Chinese guy that killed over 10 recently, with a knife. I've seen a few incidents in the past month alone where folks were purposely run down by vehicles. You name a way of killing, and it's been done. The issue is the person wanting to do the killing, not what he/she decides to perform his/her crime with. If you ban one, other ways will be found. One of the worst school killings ever was with a bomb.

I'll kill you with my hands. That simple. I just can't ever get what part of the logic is missing. Give me a sword or couple of knives I can take out at least half a classroom. That's one of the first things I notice about these killer clowns ... they're very inefficient. I'm picking my targets right to left and moving left with each round. (Right handed people would do it opposite). These goofballs waste so much money in ammo they'd be on mess duty.:laugh:

I'd rather be the target than an innocent bystander when one of these clowns get going. They kill everything but what they're trying to.

[Abbey Marie]

And if the perpetrator didn't have access to guns?
Guns, like drugs, are always accessible to criminals.

[DLT]

There won't be. Obama's political agenda is to fixate on the tool that was used, not the person that used it. All I heard him say was it was about the gun, no mention of the man.

In THAT case, better outlaw my hands, arms and shoulders. Take away all my tools .... it's a ridiculous argument.

These people that use firearms to commit murder are just lazy to me. They can't shoot worth a damn and don't know how to kill. When they do, they just get lucky. And I'm just being analytical btw. I don't need a gun, but based on the argument, might as well outlaw pencils because they're weapons. Put one through your eye and you're dead.

Boy, you ain't kiddin. Hell...even "I" could have shot/done better than this mama's boy did with Mintz. He was supposedly shot seven times and here he is smiling like he just won the lottery. AND he somehow managed to break both legs. WTF???

Something smells here.

It's starting to smell like a very familiar pattern, in fact.

7741

[Gunny]

Guns, like drugs, are always accessible to criminals.

No kidding. How many illegals we got here? We can't even stop THEM. We're going to stop what they're smuggling?

[Gunny]

Boy, you ain't kiddin. Hell...even "I" could have shot/done better than this mama's boy did with Mintz. He was supposedly shot seven times and here he is smiling like he just won the lottery. AND he somehow managed to break both legs. WTF???

Something smells here.

It's starting to smell like a very familiar pattern, in fact.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7741&stc=1

Yeah. He'd have a little blue hole between his eyes and missing half the back of his head if I was involved.

[Nonnie]

Guns, like drugs, are always accessible to criminals.

Allowing guns by using the least plausible hypothesis as an valid excuse will just continue these mass shootings.

[Gunny]

Allowing guns by using the least plausible hypothesis as an valid excuse will just continue these mass shootings.

You're STILL fixating on the tool and not the criminal.

[Abbey Marie]

Allowing guns by using the least plausible hypothesis as an valid excuse will just continue these mass shootings.

Exactly how is that the "least plausible"? Do you deny that criminals always find access to illegal stuff? It's a whole underground business.

[gabosaurus]

As always, it is a white male nutcase. Obviously a far right gun nut. No one enjoys a good slaughter like crazy white males with access to gun (the shooter had at least a dozen of them).

Gun legislation is coming. It already in the planning stages. There will be limits on the number of weapons you can own and how much ammo you can buy. You will likely be limited to single shot weapons that can be used for hunting or personal self defense. No "military style" weapons, no fully automatic weapons, no large capacity magazines.
And it will NOT violate the second amendment. Under a basic interpretation, the second amendment allows you to own a weapon. It doesn't say what kind of weapon or how many. And it doesn't say the government can't make modifications.

The new president in 2016 will likely appoint two new Supreme Court justices. A distinct liberal majority would be awesome, don't you think? :cool:

[Abbey Marie]

I'm curious what kind of pretzel logic it takes to say we can limit the Second amendment (an actual Constitutional right), but cannot put any limitations on abortion
(not a written constitutional right), whatsoever. I'm telling you, a liberal world-view is a backwards, bizarro thing.

[Gunny]

I think you misunderstood me. I'm glad he's dead and we don't have to worry about providing him 3 hots and a cot.

My point it is too much of a coincidence that one of the hero's from Paris, that stopped a Muslim terrorist from killing dozens of people, came from this VERY small town and attended this same college.

I think if anyone bothered to dig deeper they'd find that someone is pulling the strings and picked this college in order to terrorize the family and friends of the men involved in the Paris attack.

I didn't know he was dead. You going to try and run down here and wipe this non-tear off my face? :laugh:

I think YOU misunderstand ME. I'm a line Marine. I would just make him a non-entity. I don't care what his excuses are.

[Trigg]

As always, it is a white male nutcase. Obviously a far right gun nut. No one enjoys a good slaughter like crazy white males with access to gun (the shooter had at least a dozen of them).

Gun legislation is coming. It already in the planning stages. There will be limits on the number of weapons you can own and how much ammo you can buy. You will likely be limited to single shot weapons that can be used for hunting or personal self defense. No "military style" weapons, no fully automatic weapons, no large capacity magazines.
And it will NOT violate the second amendment. Under a basic interpretation, the second amendment allows you to own a weapon. It doesn't say what kind of weapon or how many. And it doesn't say the government can't make modifications.

The new president in 2016 will likely appoint two new Supreme Court justices. A distinct liberal majority would be awesome, don't you think? :cool:

He wasn't white, he reported himself as mixed race. So your hatred of white males is misplaced in this case.

He obtained the guns illegally. Any new gun legislation wouldn't have helped. Criminals and people motivated to do evil things will do them whether it's legal or not.

The only people you're going to take guns away from are law abiding citizens.

[Noir]

This is going to take a while more to settle, as much of the information is being pulled from online social media accounts, that anyone could have made. For example that myspace account with 'two friends' looks a lot like something someone just popped up in 5 minutes.

[WiccanLiberal]

As always, it is a white male nutcase. Obviously a far right gun nut. No one enjoys a good slaughter like crazy white males with access to gun (the shooter had at least a dozen of them).

Gun legislation is coming. It already in the planning stages. There will be limits on the number of weapons you can own and how much ammo you can buy. You will likely be limited to single shot weapons that can be used for hunting or personal self defense. No "military style" weapons, no fully automatic weapons, no large capacity magazines.
And it will NOT violate the second amendment. Under a basic interpretation, the second amendment allows you to own a weapon. It doesn't say what kind of weapon or how many. And it doesn't say the government can't make modifications.

The new president in 2016 will likely appoint two new Supreme Court justices. A distinct liberal majority would be awesome, don't you think? :cool:

There are already limits in place that you describe. Fully automatic weapons have been banned for civilian ownership since 1986 with the support of the NRA at that time. The original law regulating such weapons was instituted in 1934 requiring a significant tax and fingerprint registration for anyone wanting to own a machine gun. All weapons currently available legally are single shot weapons, one pull = one round fired. And there are limits on how much ammo you can legally possess. Magazine limits are also already in place. NYS mandates a maximum of 10 rounds. BTW, all the magazine limit law does is make it more likely people will gravitate toward larger caliber putting more stopping power in a single round. So how does one explain that criminals keep committing crimes with illegal guns? Oh yeah, they are CRIMINALS. Which means they get their guns ILLEGALLY and bypass LEGAL avenues responsible legal owners use. Which is why new gun laws will not change this. As for the crazy folk who go on rampages, maybe we need to be less politically correct and acknowledge that our society has a penchant for occasionally producing a dyed-in-the-wool wackaloon psychotic who wants to watch the world burn. Deprived of guns, they would still find a way. Maybe we need to give back a few tools to the people who evaluate mental illness so they can intervene more forcefully with the individuals who give off signals ahead of time. And most of them seem to. Understand that I can happily sit in my home and own 20 firearms and be absolutely no threat to the general public. Woe betide the home invader however. Regulating my firearms is a waste of time. However, broadening the definitions for a 72 hour psych hold might be more useful.

[Gunny]

There are already limits in place that you describe. Fully automatic weapons have been banned for civilian ownership since 1986 with the support of the NRA at that time. The original law regulating such weapons was instituted in 1934 requiring a significant tax and fingerprint registration for anyone wanting to own a machine gun. All weapons currently available legally are single shot weapons, one pull = one round fired. And there are limits on how much ammo you can legally possess. Magazine limits are also already in place. NYS mandates a maximum of 10 rounds. BTW, all the magazine limit law does is make it more likely people will gravitate toward larger caliber putting more stopping power in a single round. So how does one explain that criminals keep committing crimes with illegal guns? Oh yeah, they are CRIMINALS. Which means they get their guns ILLEGALLY and bypass LEGAL avenues responsible legal owners use. Which is why new gun laws will not change this. As for the crazy folk who go on rampages, maybe we need to be less politically correct and acknowledge that our society has a penchant for occasionally producing a dyed-in-the-wool wackaloon psychotic who wants to watch the world burn. Deprived of guns, they would still find a way. Maybe we need to give back a few tools to the people who evaluate mental illness so they can intervene more forcefully with the individuals who give off signals ahead of time. And most of them seem to. Understand that I can happily sit in my home and own 20 firearms and be absolutely no threat to the general public. Woe betide the home invader however. Regulating my firearms is a waste of time. However, broadening the definitions for a 72 hour psych hold might be more useful.

That's NYS. But you got that right. When Clinton pulled that Brady Bill crap I went straight to a 10 round .45, and just bought extra mags.

[WiccanLiberal]

Pagan who died saving Christians.


Oregon Pagan Community loses member in College Shooting -

ROSEBURG, Ore — On Thursday Oct. 1, a 26-year old man entered several buildings on the Umpqua Community College near Roseburg, Oregon and opened fire killing a total of ten people and injuring 9 others. Among those ten victims was 59-year old Kim Saltmarsh Dietz, a local Pagan woman, who was attending classes with her daughter.
http://wildhunt.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/12088237_1655171554724754_8093543682267415426_n-500x331.jpg
When the shooting happened, family members immediately began to worry. There had been no word from Kim since the shots had been fired. Almost immediately, prayers and blessings were being expressed via Facebook from friends and family. “Kim, please be alive. Please be safe. Please call home!,” read one post.
However, hope turned to sorrow when friends and family learned that she was one of the ten victims. The Douglas County Sheriff’s office (https://www.facebook.com/DouglasCoSO?fref=ts) sent two officers to each home to inform the family and offer any assistance. After learning the news, Kim’s husband, Eric Dietz, confirmed the worst via Facebook, saying “It is with deep grief in my heart that I must announce that Kim Saltmarsh Dietz was one of the people killed yesterday at UCC.” Later that day, the Sheriff’s office publicly released the names of all the victims (http://ktla.com/2015/10/02/oregon-shooting-victims-names-released-details-about-their-lives-emerge/)....


While the Sheriff’s department moves forward with its investigative work, the victims’ families must now face the process of mourning. Kim’s husband has set up a GoFundMe campaign to raise money for funeral and memorial expenses. According to one of the donors, Kim was a hero. On the site, Jescah Keene wrote, “She stood in front of a door to block the shooter & unfortunately lost her life.” And, in a Facebook post, another local resident said that nursing student and friend Sharon Kirkham “was by her side trying to save her until the end.” -:


Quoted from http://wildhunt.org/

All people lose something when a good person like this is murdered. Blessings to the family and friends who lost their loved ones that day.

[fj1200]

So... Muslim or not?

[red state]

:clap::clap::clap:
Well, actually, if we keep our guns, it less likely to be our children one day.

Of course, we have empathy. But how would typed words of empathy help anything?

And if I'm going to point the finger at someone who is giving the wrong emphasis to the event, I'd point it at Obama for making political points from it about 3 nanoseconds after the incident.:clap::clap::clap:

Here, here!!! Spot on!!!! Some are simply too stupid to realize this and too quick to jump on those of us while turning a blind eye to the evil of B.O. and the leftists.......it is always the Right's fault (and GUNS).

[red state]

I'm curious what kind of pretzel logic it takes to say we can limit the Second amendment (an actual Constitutional right), but cannot put any limitations on abortion
(not a written constitutional right), whatsoever. I'm telling you, a liberal world-view is a backwards, bizarro thing.

Very bazaar, indeed, and/or directly full of willful ignorance when ignoring the obvious. Why don't we simply outlaw CRIME (period). That is the mentality you deal with in the liberal mind.

[red state]

Allowing guns by using the least plausible hypothesis as an valid excuse will just continue these mass shootings.

No, you are dead wrong; by automatically victimizing GOOD people within so-called NO Gun Zones you will EFFECTIVELY continue these somewhat avoidable crimes. Perhaps we will see an escalation of such cowardly crimes at gun ranges, hunting lodges or your average good ole SOUTHERN community; speaking of which, one of the first attack was in my Great State and lives were actually saved by a principle or teacher who "carried". FACT!

[Gunny]

That argument you'll never win. I read about a Chinese guy that killed over 10 recently, with a knife. I've seen a few incidents in the past month alone where folks were purposely run down by vehicles. You name a way of killing, and it's been done. The issue is the person wanting to do the killing, not what he/she decides to perform his/her crime with. If you ban one, other ways will be found. One of the worst school killings ever was with a bomb.

I know I ain't going to win the argument. The left needs excuses. Their biggest threat since they flooded in here after the strong built this country has been fixated on firearms. The very thing that created what the freedom they take for granted. Their minds can't grasp the fact that over 90% of crimes committed by firearms are done with illegally possessed firearms. They want to punish the innocent in their usual sensationalist manner. Their stupid crap hurts no one but the people that protect them.

[DragonStryk72]

Whenever something like this happens, we always go through the usual "Oh my, why did he do it, what caused him to do it, what could we have done to prevent this" litany. Every time. I suppose it's only natural to think those things after some horrible tragedy like this.

Oh we so do not. No, it's time to scream about gun control, yet again.