Anti-vaxxers dun goofed [Archive] - Debate Policy

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Noir

10-05-2015, 09:30 AM

In a kind of story that would bring a warm glowing smile to the groggiest of men - Anti-vax group SafeMinds put around $250,000 into a 10 year study that was released this week. The results - the vaccines tested did not cause any brain or behavioural changed.

10/10. Ace.

Full results well formatted and presented here -
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2015/09/24/1500968112.full.pdf
They tested both current and former (now obsolete) versions of the vaccines, and the conclusion was unambiguous, will be a joy to watch anti-vaxxer punch their way outa this one.

Motown

10-05-2015, 10:52 AM

NightTrain

10-05-2015, 11:11 AM

The result was unambiguous yet you didn't trumpet the result? I think you might be wrong and the guys that Thanked your post might be really, really stupid.

A study funded by Anti-Vaxxers backfires and reinforces what the medical establishment has been saying for years, despite Jenny McCarthy's rantings?

Yeah, I'll thank it. Moronic parents endangering their children piss me off.

What don't you like about it? The results?

Noir

10-05-2015, 11:20 AM

The result was unambiguous yet you didn't trumpet the result?

Spot on, the OP was a wasted opportunity, by way of making up for it -

http://www.familylobby.com/common/tt11015670fltt.gif
http://www.familylobby.com/common/tt11015672fltt.gif

(:

NightTrain

10-05-2015, 11:40 AM

Spot on, the OP was a wasted opportunity, by way of making up for it -

http://www.familylobby.com/common/tt11015670fltt.gif
http://www.familylobby.com/common/tt11015672fltt.gif

(:

Smilie faces over the 'i's would probably kick it up a trumpet or two.

Motown

10-05-2015, 01:04 PM

Noir

10-05-2015, 01:10 PM

Your stupidity is not my problem.

Do you disagree with the findings of the study?
If so, why?

Motown

10-05-2015, 01:13 PM

Do you disagree with the findings of the study?
If so, why?

I love how you did this. I'm suppossed to answer your questions about a vaccine study but you don't feel the need to answer questions about other topics. Should I answer you? Is this fair?

NightTrain

10-05-2015, 01:21 PM

Your stupidity is not my problem.

My stupidity?

Please do elaborate.

I'm detecting a strong Anti-Vaccine attitude here.

Noir

10-05-2015, 01:25 PM

I love how you did this. I'm suppossed to answer your questions about a vaccine study but you don't feel the need to answer questions about other topics. Should I answer you? Is this fair?

I assume your referring the 'torture' thread?
If so you'll have notice i've also got replies from Drummond, Gunny, Tyr as well as yourself to consider (yours being the last asked) in that thread, while also trying to hop around some other threads. So often it may well take me more than 15mins to reply to a particular post.

You can chose to answer my questions or not, but especially if you're going to go into a thread and start calling people stupid i would advise that you do atleast attempt to discuss the topic at hand, as to do otherwise is just boring trolling.

And just so as to manage your expectations - I have to pop out presently to pick up my car form the Mechs, so don't be expecting any torture thread updates just yet.

Motown

10-05-2015, 01:28 PM

My stupidity?

Please do elaborate.

I'm detecting a strong Anti-Vaccine attitude here.

If you do then you're kinda stupid. You know what the problem is...deal with it direct or don't. Your choice.

jimnyc

10-05-2015, 01:31 PM

If you do then you're kinda stupid. You know what the problem is...deal with it direct or don't. Your choice.

I see calling people stupid - c'mon now, you can do better, tell us WHY he is stupid, and why the article is as well?

Motown

10-05-2015, 01:33 PM

I see calling people stupid - c'mon now, you can do better, tell us WHY he is stupid, and why the article is as well?

You really need me to explain it? You haven't been following the "history"?

NightTrain

10-05-2015, 01:34 PM

If you do then you're kinda stupid. You know what the problem is...deal with it direct or don't. Your choice.

Very well, educate me.

So far you've insulted without saying what it is that you disagree strongly with.

Let's get down to brass tacks, Sparky! Jump right out there and we'll figure out who's the stupid one.

Don't be skeered.

jimnyc

10-05-2015, 01:36 PM

You really need me to explain it? You haven't been following the "history"?

Yes, I have. I have no issue with vaccinations and believe they are necessary. Those that avoid them can potentially harm others, and more so babies and those with compromised immune systems.

Nukeman

10-05-2015, 01:53 PM

The result was unambiguous yet you didn't trumpet the result? I think you might be wrong and the guys that Thanked your post might be really, really stupid.
Actually the result was VERY specific, If you are used to reading any type of medical research papers you will note that MOST of the information excluding methodology and detailed results can be found in the FIRST paragraph detailing the study. Here I copied it for you so you can tell us what makes us "stupid" for thanking Noir for bringing the study to light..

Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is a complex neurodevelopmental disorder. Some anecdotal reports suggest that ASD is related to exposure to ethyl mercury, in the form of the vaccine preservative,thimerosal, and/or receiving the measles, mumps, rubella (MMR)vaccine. Using infant rhesus macaques receiving thimerosalcontaining vaccines (TCVs) following the recommended pediatric vaccine schedules from the 1990s and 2008, we examined behavior, and neuropathology in three brain regions found to exhibit neuropathology in postmortem ASD brains. No neuronal cellular or protein changes in the cerebellum, hippocampus, or amygdala were observed in animals following the 1990s or 2008 vaccine schedules. Analysis of social behavior in juvenile animals indicated that there were no significant differences in negative behaviors between animals in the control and experimental groups. These data indicate that administration of TCVs and/or the MMR vaccine to rhesus macaques does not result in neuropathological abnormalities, or aberrant behaviors, like those observed in ASD

Abbey Marie

10-05-2015, 02:19 PM

Your stupidity is not my problem.

Come on, no need to go ad hominem.

(And NT is one of the most intelligent and reasonable people I've encountered over many years on many message boards).

Motown

10-05-2015, 02:45 PM

Come on, no need to go ad hominem.

(And NT is one of the most intelligent and reasonable people I've encountered over many years on many message boards).

once again, not my problem. I saw a defect in the reasoning. You all can circle the wagons all you want and tell me how smart those guys are...I don't care.

jimnyc

10-05-2015, 02:51 PM

once again, not my problem. I saw a defect in the reasoning. You all can circle the wagons all you want and tell me how smart those guys are...I don't care.

Oh, I don't mind that you disagree, or that you disagree with the reasoning - just wasn't sure why you immediately went into calling NT stupid when all he did was like the opening post. Now he may have to sue you for libel!! :laugh:

Nukeman

10-05-2015, 02:52 PM

once again, not my problem. I saw a defect in the reasoning. You all can circle the wagons all you want and tell me how smart those guys are...I don't care.
So I thanked Noir for presenting a study that basically puts to rest the anti-vax crowd you call myself and others stupid and you won't back up why?? You don't care yet you continue to come and question the intelligence of myself and NT and others. Why is that. are you expecting us to suddenly see the infinite wisdom in your statement?? Are we to be in awe of your superior intelligence even though you have yet to show it!?!?!?

I think this is only your trying to get at Noir for whatever slight you feel he may have caused you by not responding to your questions and if so that is fine between you but you called into question my intelligence and NT's as well.. so put up or STFU.. I hate when peoplet sling crap and have no way to back it up....:poke:

NightTrain

10-05-2015, 02:52 PM

once again, not my problem. I saw a defect in the reasoning. You all can circle the wagons all you want and tell me how smart those guys are...I don't care.

Funny how you are unable to assert what it is exactly that you have a problem with.

The study? Vaccines? The results?

In my experience, the only people that have a problem with vaccines are the mindless idiots that refuse cold hard facts and go with what Jenny McCarthy vomits on Oprah.

I'm seeing a real reluctance on your part to explain why we're all 'stooopid' by agreeing with a properly researched medical study.

Have you emailed Jenny yet to get her take on it? She doesn't work for MTV anymore, so she's probably got lots of time to devote to the Anti-Vaxxer movement.

Russ

10-05-2015, 08:19 PM

Your stupidity is not my problem.

What the hell are you talkin' about. NT has a Doctorate in "Things Motown has No Idea About"...

gabosaurus

10-05-2015, 11:05 PM

A study funded by Anti-Vaxxers backfires and reinforces what the medical establishment has been saying for years, despite Jenny McCarthy's rantings?

Yeah, I'll thank it. Moronic parents endangering their children piss me off.

I totally agree. Every parent has the right to not vaccinate their children.
All I ask is that such parents keep their children away from schools and out of the general population. Please do not take your kids to any public place, including doctors offices and hospitals.
If for some reason you do have to take your kid out, please have him or her wear a shirt that says "my parent is an idiot and refused to vaccinate me." That way, more sensible parents can avoid you like the plague.

Noir

10-10-2015, 05:57 AM

I'm guessing we're never going to heat what Motowns actual objection was in this thread =/

Motown

10-10-2015, 06:16 AM

I'm guessing we're never going to heat what Motowns actual objection was in this thread =/

I decided not to pursue it because it was tangential and the further friction it would have caused would have far outweighed any benefit which is basically none. Not worth it, I know when I'm wrong to bring something up and I stop rather than cause further damage.

I can safely assume that you will respond to any post directed at you, ever?

Noir

10-10-2015, 06:27 AM

I decided not to pursue it because it was tangential and the further friction it would have caused would have far outweighed any benefit which is basically none. Not worth it, I know when I'm wrong to bring something up and I stop rather than cause further damage. I can safely assume that you will respond to any post directed at you, ever?

Well atleast you stuck with it long enough to insult several users first.

You're welcome to link me to whatever reply your waiting for.

Motown

10-10-2015, 06:48 AM

Well atleast you stuck with it long enough to insult several users first.

You're welcome to link me to whatever reply your waiting for.

I'm not waiting for a reply from you. Feel free to start a cage thread if you have a problem.

revelarts

10-10-2015, 08:01 AM

I haven't taken the time yet to look at the study but based on the, headlines, the paragraph here and the descriptions.
It looks like this study makes the vaccines look safe.
I have no problem acknowledging that AT ALL.

My problem is when i've posted studies and reports that seem to indicate the opposite they are rejected OUT OF HAND and not considered seriously.
Seems some posters here wonder how "anti-vaxers" will handle the study.
I can't speak for others but I'll handle it like... well... a study.
Another piece of seemingly valid info to weigh in the balance of ALL of the info available on the subject.

But I do have counter question.
If the study had shown the opposite would ANYONE here taken it seriously?
yes or no?
Or are only studies that confirm our "beliefs" considered valid and true?
I suspect that the FUNDING of the study would have been the main topic, if the study was brought up at all, and the result dismissed OUT OF HAND. Am i wrong? please be honest.

The only other thing I'll mention is this.
Seems the study was done to see if the vaccines caused brain related problems, in this case (based on what i see posted here) it appears that it does not. that's very good news.
But it does not show that vaccines are effective.

those are the 2 parts to the "anti-vaxers" arguments against them.
and the 2 parts to the pro-vaxers DEMAND that everyone use them or else.
That vacancies are "safe AND effective".

But some people are from Missouri on this issue.
(Noir BTW the State of Mossouri's motto is "SHOW ME")