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Christie Brinkley
11-10-2015, 07:51 PM
RIP to all 34 who were killed in the attempted false flag attack on the USS Liberty

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7925&stc=1

jimnyc
11-11-2015, 10:53 AM
RIP to all 34 who were killed in the attempted false flag attack on the USS Liberty

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7925&stc=1

Does that have anything to do with this thread or this ship, or men being honored in this thread?

Christie Brinkley
11-11-2015, 10:55 AM
Does that have anything to do with this thread or this ship, or men being honored in this thread?
Just honoring the men killed in that attack on another ship?

jimnyc
11-11-2015, 10:58 AM
Just honoring the men killed in that attack on another ship?

What does the USS liberty have to do with this thread?

Christie Brinkley
11-11-2015, 11:00 AM
What does the USS liberty have to do with this thread?
Ship sank and killed people another ship was damaged and killed people?

jimnyc
11-11-2015, 11:00 AM
Just honoring the men killed in that attack on another ship?

I don't know about where you are from, but try having a little fucking class when others are memorializing dead folks. We have a lot of memorial type of threads here, and I will NOT let you come in and shit on them, not happening.

Christie Brinkley
11-11-2015, 11:02 AM
I don't know about where you are from, but try having a little fucking class when others are memorializing dead folks. We have a lot of memorial type of threads here, and I will NOT let you come in and shit on them, not happening.
How am I shitting on them when I am talking about another maritime disaster?

jimnyc
11-11-2015, 11:04 AM
How am I shitting on them when I am talking about another maritime disaster?

One has nothing to do with another. I just started a thread about Veterans day. I suppose you could technically start shit about dead people in there too, and I would remove you from that thread. It's a way of a MEMORIAL to people who lost their lives - end of story. <--- I do hope you know what that means - let it go, look for another thread, start another thread, don't shit on this one, have some class...

Christie Brinkley
11-11-2015, 11:08 AM
One has nothing to do with another. I just started a thread about Veterans day. I suppose you could technically start shit about dead people in there too, and I would remove you from that thread. It's a way of a MEMORIAL to people who lost their lives - end of story. <--- I do hope you know what that means - let it go, look for another thread, start another thread, don't shit on this one, have some class...
Excuse me 35 men died on the USS Liberty? Don't their lives matter then?

jimnyc
11-11-2015, 11:10 AM
Excuse me 35 men died on the USS Liberty? Don't their lives matter then?

Read the thread title. And goodbye from this thread, I asked you several times.

jimnyc
11-11-2015, 11:12 AM
Christie was removed from this thread. If anyone speaks up and states they DON'T think this user was trying to talk smack about a "false flag" operation in a memorial thread, speak up and I'll change my decision. But otherwise, seems to me like someone trying to shit on a thread memorializing these men.

indago
11-11-2015, 11:13 AM
Excuse me 35 men died on the USS Liberty? Don't their lives matter then?

So, start a new thread on this one. This thread is about November 10, 1975...

jimnyc
11-11-2015, 11:14 AM
Abbey NightTrain

If either of you think I unfairly removed this user from this thread, please reinstate. My reasoning was for memorials, I DO NOT like people stomping on that, and that's what it seemed like was happening here. Methinks Christie is not a fan of the good 'ol USA, and thats cool, but doing so in such threads like this won't fly.

indago
11-11-2015, 11:18 AM
@Abbey (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=11) @NightTrain (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=89)

If either of you think I unfairly removed this user from this thread, please reinstate. My reasoning was for memorials, I DO NOT like people stomping on that, and that's what it seemed like was happening here. Methinks Christie is not a fan of the good 'ol USA, and thats cool, but doing so in such threads like this won't fly.

I don't believe that "Christie" meant to be "stomping" on anything, just that the posting was misplaced...

jimnyc
11-11-2015, 11:20 AM
I don't believe that "Christie" meant to be "stomping" on anything, just that the posting was misplaced...

From going to a memorial - directly - to wanting to discuss "false flag" operations as the first ship to want to memorialize? If you repeat yourself, so be it, I'll let him back in the thread, but I disagree with the intent.

jimnyc
11-11-2015, 11:28 AM
I don't believe that "Christie" meant to be "stomping" on anything, just that the posting was misplaced...

So as not to remove someone from a thread unfairly, I will change the decision. Sometimes I see things differently. Weird that this person chose this thread to honor folks from the USA...

NightTrain
11-11-2015, 11:28 AM
Christie, if you want to discuss the USS Liberty incident, then by all means start a thread. Conspiracy Theories would probably be the appropriate forum.

Derailing this thread with already disproven conspiracy theories was a shitty move.

jimnyc
11-11-2015, 11:34 AM
Christie, if you want to discuss the USS Liberty incident, then by all means start a thread. Conspiracy Theories would probably be the appropriate forum.

Derailing this thread with already disproven conspiracy theories was a shitty move.

I let him back into the thread. I think it's obvious why he chose to drop that in this thread, but will now act like he wants to honor folks from the US and that's why he brought that up in this thread. Doubtful, but whatever, start a new thread.

Abbey
11-11-2015, 11:36 AM
Christie, if you want to discuss the USS Liberty incident, then by all means start a thread. Conspiracy Theories would probably be the appropriate forum.

Derailing this thread with already disproven conspiracy theories was a shitty move.


:goodposting:

I agree that the post was from out-of-nowhere, and misplaced. We can split it off to another thread.

Gunny
11-11-2015, 11:37 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTd78smUkAAlZLe.jpg

she goes down on Lake Superior with all 29 hands


https://youtu.be/9vST6hVRj2A

I don't watch videos much nor follow links, but I'd guess The Edmund Fitzgerald?

Gunny
11-11-2015, 11:39 AM
:goodposting:

I agree that the post was from out-of-nowhere, and misplaced. We can split it off to another thread.

I need to quit this babysitting gig. I NEVER know WTF is going on around here.

jimnyc
11-11-2015, 11:40 AM
:goodposting:

I agree that the post was from out-of-nowhere, and misplaced. We can split it off to another thread.

Good idea - done

Gunny
11-11-2015, 12:42 PM
How am I shitting on them when I am talking about another maritime disaster?

Want to make a new friend? I can guarantee you one. These people served so you can live and run your mouth. You don't marginalize even a single one of them. You can have all the conspiracy theories yu want but you do NOT marginalize my bro's.

You think about those Hurricane and Spitfire pilots that got their asses up and into the air against enormous odds and won your right to even speak. Then you can get back to us.

jimnyc
11-11-2015, 12:46 PM
Want to make a new friend? I can guarantee you one. These people served so you can live and run your mouth. You don't marginalize even a single one of them. You can have all the conspiracy theories yu want but you do NOT marginalize my bro's.

You think about those Hurricane and Spitfire pilots that got their asses up and into the air against enormous odds and won your right to even speak. Then you can get back to us.

You need to read more. CB is from the UK and obviously cares not about the US military, and has made that loud and clear. Hell, I don't even see anything positive about military and freedoms about the UK military. Only the Russian military is good. :rolleyes:

Gunny
11-11-2015, 12:49 PM
You need to read more. CB is from the UK and obviously cares not about the US military, and has made that loud and clear. Hell, I don't even see anything positive about military and freedoms about the UK military. Only the Russian military is good. :rolleyes:

Yeah. You mean because she posts pics of CH-53s conducting training ops over SoCal and calls them Russian military ops? I kinda got the picture.

indago
11-11-2015, 06:48 PM
I don't watch videos much nor follow links, but I'd guess The Edmund Fitzgerald?

Good guess...

The name is on the side of the ship...

Gunny
11-12-2015, 08:05 AM
Good guess...

The name is on the side of the ship...

Yeah, but old as dust, remember? My glasses broke and I haven't replaced them yet. Wearing some old ones. I just saw the ship and knew which one it was. I remember when it happened.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
11-12-2015, 09:45 AM
Excuse me 35 men died on the USS Liberty? Don't their lives matter then?
I myself would love to discuss that incident in another thread. As I have some very choice words about how our government handled that attack. Words that got me banned for 7 days at another forum many years ago.-Tyr

Gunny
11-12-2015, 09:48 AM
I myself would love to discuss that incident in another thread. As I have some very choice words about how our government handled that attack. Words that got me banned for 7 days at another forum many years ago.-Tyr

Make the thread. I'll discuss it. Between babysitting. :laugh:

Let me guess ... you got banned by Jillian .....

Gunny
11-12-2015, 10:06 AM
And the argument is stupid. The State of Israel was re-created in the Balfour Agreement of 1924. So called "Palestinians" are Arabs by another name. They're free to live anywhere they want in the ME. Israel was disenfranchised by the Romans for revolting against them. There's no such thing as a "Palestinian". No more than being Jewish is a race. It's a religion.

The US was originally against Israel or giving the land to back to the Jews. The Brits were the only ones that supported it. The whole thing is ridiculous. We turned away a boatload of Jewish refugees that ended up in Treblinka. But we want to give "amnesty" to a bunch of wetbacks.

If I was David Bengurion, EVERYONE was my enemy. I can also point out that guess what a boat looks like from the air? A boat. A little grey thing in the water. IF the USS Liberty was sunk purposefully or not, it works either way. If I'm fighting for my existence and you come tooling your gunboat around, guess what?

NightTrain
11-12-2015, 10:47 AM
It was a tragic case of friendly fire. The Liberty was a CIA boat parked on the edge of an active war zone gathering signal intelligence and was mistaken for an Egyptian boat by Israeli pilots.

We've been over all this a few times before, though. A simple search here on this site brings up those threads.

Conspiracy nutters love it, but as usual they're wrong.

Gunny
11-12-2015, 10:57 AM
It was a tragic case of friendly fire. The Liberty was a CIA boat parked on the edge of an active war zone gathering signal intelligence and was mistaken for an Egyptian boat by Israeli pilots.

We've been over all this a few times before, though. A simple search here on this site brings up those threads.

Conspiracy nutters love it, but as usual they're wrong.

It may have very well been. I wasn't there. I CAN tell you this ... decision time comes around, you make one. I don't second guess combat decisions unless they are criminal acts. Israel has always claimed it was a mistake. Barring anymore evidence than conjecture on the part of conspiracy theorists, I'm good with it.

What purpose would it serve Israel to attack the US 4 years after we kicked the world's ass? Bengurion was a strategic and tactical genius. I don't think it happened on purpose. Like I said, guess what little grey boats look like from the sky? Little grey boats.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
11-12-2015, 11:01 AM
It was a tragic case of friendly fire. The Liberty was a CIA boat parked on the edge of an active war zone gathering signal intelligence and was mistaken for an Egyptian boat by Israeli pilots.

We've been over all this a few times before, though. A simple search here on this site brings up those threads.

Conspiracy nutters love it, but as usual they're wrong.

You are in error my friend. .
The Israeli's knew it was us.. They deliberately hit that ship to send a message(AS WE WERE SPYING ON THEM TOO) and guess what, they won, because instead of shooting their attack out of the skies our government let our guys get shot up.
Diplomacy in action negates rational thinking IMHO..
HAVE TO TAKE OFF NOW TO DO CRAP ALL DAY, WILL RETURN TONIGHT TO POST. ---Tyr

Black Diamond
11-12-2015, 11:06 AM
The Bush family rigged the boat to explode.

Gunny
11-12-2015, 11:26 AM
You are in error my friend. .
The Israeli's knew it was us.. They deliberately hit that ship to send a message(AS WE WERE SPYING ON THEM TOO) and guess what, they won, because instead of shooting their attack out of the skies our government let our guys get shot up.
Diplomacy in action negates rational thinking IMHO..
HAVE TO TAKE OFF NOW TO DO CRAP ALL DAY, WILL RETURN TONIGHT TO POST. ---Tyr

Respectfully, try putting things in context. We tried to stop the Jews. You get between me and my one and only option? WE created the situation. We gave the Jews their homeland back because nobody wanted them. We sit around and accept Indians and ragheads NOW, but no one wanted Jews back then. We gave them a piece of dirt in the desert. They took it and defended it.

WE were NOT their allies at the time. If I'm fighting for my existence I'm blowing you up and I don't care who you are. But I disagree they knew whose ship it was.

Now turn this around ... if you thought some raghead was going to hurt you or your family, you going to shoot or ask questions? Don't know bout you but I got an itchy trigger finger. And the way shit's going in this country NOW? It's getting itchier.

Black Diamond
11-12-2015, 11:29 AM
Respectfully, try putting things in context. We tried to stop the Jews. You get between me and my one and only option? WE created the situation. We gave the Jews their homeland back because nobody wanted them. We sit around and accept Indians and ragheads NOW, but no one wanted Jews back then. We gave them a piece of dirt in the desert. They took it and defended it.

WE were NOT their allies at the time. If I'm fighting for my existence I'm blowing you up and I don't care who you are. But I disagree they knew whose ship it was.

Now turn this around ... if you thought some raghead was going to hurt you or your family, you going to shoot or ask questions? Don't know bout you but I got an itchy trigger finger. And the way shit's going in this country NOW? It's getting itchier.
Holocaust was and still is in Israel's rear view mirror.

NightTrain
11-12-2015, 11:32 AM
You are in error my friend. .
The Israeli's knew it was us.. They deliberately hit that ship to send a message(AS WE WERE SPYING ON THEM TOO) and guess what, they won, because instead of shooting their attack out of the skies our government let our guys get shot up.
Diplomacy in action negates rational thinking IMHO..
HAVE TO TAKE OFF NOW TO DO CRAP ALL DAY, WILL RETURN TONIGHT TO POST. ---Tyr


No way.

We had that boat parked there feeding the Israelis intelligence. How do you think they knew where to hit them? Our SR-71s, U2s and boats like the Liberty all gathering Intel... that was a large part of why Israel kicked so much ass in the Six Day War and the Yom Kippur War.

That's not to take away from the outstanding job they did kicking everyone's asses - that was an outstanding feat. But we were helping them mightily with the Intel while the Soviets were helping the Arabs.

Gunny
11-12-2015, 11:41 AM
Holocaust was and still is in Israel's rear view mirror.

I'm not a Holocaust supporter. I think the numbers are exaggerated. BUT ... it still happened. I think Jews are stupid frankly. They all vote Democrat when the Republicans are the ones that support their homeland. Just how dumb can you be?

And feel free to toss blacks in. Dems have been promising them a free ride for HOW long? They haven't gotten shit but STILL believe it.

Abbey
11-12-2015, 04:27 PM
The Bush family rigged the boat to explode.

Oh no. Not another vast right wing conspiracy!

Gunny
11-12-2015, 04:30 PM
Oh no. Not another vast right wing conspiracy!

And we know YOU are behind it. :laugh:

Abbey
11-12-2015, 04:40 PM
And we know YOU are behind it. :laugh:


http://static.fjcdn.com/comments/You+got+me+there+_c9a4f40230d801785b3e50b4b6ce7137 .jpg

Gunny
11-12-2015, 04:51 PM
http://static.fjcdn.com/comments/You+got+me+there+_c9a4f40230d801785b3e50b4b6ce7137 .jpg

I see how you are. And I thought you liked me. So before you started waking he baby every day you blew up a warship. Russ must be one understanding guy. :)

Abbey
11-12-2015, 04:58 PM
I see how you are. And I thought you liked me. So before you started waking he baby every day you blew up a warship. Russ must be one understanding guy. :)


LOl, I guess he admires my diverse talents. ;)

Elessar
11-12-2015, 05:46 PM
Excuse me 35 men died on the USS Liberty? Don't their lives matter then?

You are quite wrong this time.

Elessar
11-12-2015, 05:48 PM
From going to a memorial - directly - to wanting to discuss "false flag" operations as the first ship to want to memorialize? If you repeat yourself, so be it, I'll let him back in the thread, but I disagree with the intent.

Keep it.

You are right.

Wrong church, wrong pew.

Elessar
11-12-2015, 05:53 PM
You are in error my friend. .
The Israeli's knew it was us.. They deliberately hit that ship to send a message(AS WE WERE SPYING ON THEM TOO) and guess what, they won, because instead of shooting their attack out of the skies our government let our guys get shot up.
Diplomacy in action negates rational thinking IMHO..
HAVE TO TAKE OFF NOW TO DO CRAP ALL DAY, WILL RETURN TONIGHT TO POST. ---Tyr

An AGI is not rigged or armed. Period.

Elessar
11-12-2015, 05:56 PM
The Bush family rigged the boat to explode.

Not sure where you got got that one.

Black Diamond
11-12-2015, 06:40 PM
Not sure where you got got that one.

I made it up. Sort of. I am poking fun at conspiracy theorists.

Elessar
11-12-2015, 07:06 PM
I made it up. Sort of. I am poking fun at conspiracy theorists.

Ohhh....then I will grin at it.

aboutime
11-12-2015, 08:04 PM
On October 12, 2000, 17 U.S. Sailors died on the USS COLE as well. Talking about the Liberty is an honorable thing, but after all these years; how much attention has been paid to what took place?
History is History. We cannot change it, or do anything about it except...REMEMBER IT.

Seems somebody must always dig up something to complain about in order to get attention that lasts...15 Minutes.

How bout we start paying more attention to TODAY? So much is happening and all we hear is WHINING about the past!

Clinton should have declared war...according to NAVAL standards of War. But he wussed out....as usual.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
11-13-2015, 09:16 AM
No way.

We had that boat parked there feeding the Israelis intelligence. How do you think they knew where to hit them? Our SR-71s, U2s and boats like the Liberty all gathering Intel... that was a large part of why Israel kicked so much ass in the Six Day War and the Yom Kippur War.

That's not to take away from the outstanding job they did kicking everyone's asses - that was an outstanding feat. But we were helping them mightily with the Intel while the Soviets were helping the Arabs.


http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/world/declassified-israeli-cables-add-evidence-usaliberty-no-accident/article/414951

Declassified Israeli cables add evidence USS Liberty no accident
By Ralph Lopez Nov 14, 2014 in World
A Special Report by the Chicago Tribune details declassified cables, from the Israeli State Archive, which add further evidence that Israel knew it was attacking an American ship as it attacked the USS Liberty.

Declassified Israeli cables add evidence USS Liberty no accident
By Ralph Lopez Nov 14, 2014 in World
A Special Report by the Chicago Tribune details declassified cables, from the Israeli State Archive, which add further evidence that Israel knew it was attacking an American ship as it attacked the USS Liberty.
1 of 2
[Chicago Tribune: "New Revelations in Attack on American Spy Ship,"]
Last month, a new documentary broadcast a tape for the first time, of Israeli military transmissions during the attack, which established that the ship was confirmed to be U.S. by 2:14pm that day, local time. The timeline of the attack establishes that the attack continued for another hour after that time.
The existence of the tape is confirmed by transcripts published in the Jerusalem Post in 2004.

The cables obtained by the Tribune, and translated from Hebrew to English, are were published in a 2007 special report. They detail exchanges between the Israeli ambassador in Washington and the Israeli foreign minister in Tel Aviv. Five days after the attack, Israeli Ambassador Avraham Harman worried that the deliberate nature of the attack had been uncovered, and cabled Foreign Minister Abba Eban that a source, code-named "Hamlet," had told him that the Americans had:
"clear proof that from a certain stage the pilot discovered the identity of the ship and continued the attack anyway."
As the diplomatic uproar over the attack played out, Harman cabled three days later that:
"the Americans probably have findings showing that our pilots indeed knew that the ship was American."
One of the sources of the information passed on by the Israeli ambassador was the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Arthur Goldberg, according to Israeli historian Tom Segev.
The 1967 attack, which the Israeli government said was an accident, has been festering, with survivors once again unanimously renewing their call for a congressional investigation. The survivors say the attack is the only incident involving major damage to an American ship and great loss of life which has never been accorded such an investigation.
Instead, the investigation was relegated to a U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry, presided over by Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., father of John McCain, the US senator and former presidential candidate. In 2003 the lead counsel for the Court, Captain Ward Boston, stepped forward to say that the Court had been ordered by President Lyndon B. Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara to conclude that the attack had been a case of mistaken identity, "despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary." Captain Boston resigned from the Court before the inquiry was complete. He passed away in 2008.
Thirty four US servicemen were killed in the attack, and hundreds wounded. In the new documentary "The Day Israel Attacked America," survivors of the attack go on-camera to again recount their memories, and to reiterate their firm conviction, in which they have been joined by a long list of top military and political figures, that the attack was a deliberate attempt to sink an American ship.
Supporters include former NSA Director Bobby Ray Inman and the late US Secretary of State, under Lyndon Johnson, Dean Rusk. Supporters of the survivors, such as the late Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Thomas Moorer, say the reason for the attack may have been to blame the sinking of the ship on Egypt, with which Israel was at war at the time. This would have drawn the US into the Six Day War on the Israeli side.

There is little doubt, given the damage and the prolonged nature of the attack, that the Israeli military struggled to sink the ship. Over the course of the hour-and-a-half attack, numerous Israeli jet fighters and high-speed torpedo boats expended over 800 rounds of 30mm cannon, air-to-surface rockets, heat-seeking missiles, napalm bombs, and five torpedoes.
Toward the end of the attack, Israeli torpedo boats pulled up at close range and machine-gunned the life-boats that were being lowered into the water by the Liberty crew in preparation to abandon ship, beginning with the most severely wounded.
According to Geneva Article 12, the rules of war prohibit firing upon the wounded, or those attempting to evacuate them, at any time. Such action is considered an international war crime.
The new documentary, produced and directed by award-winning British film maker Richard Belfield, is riveting in the details recounted by the survivors of the Liberty, such as the clear memory of blood streaming down the hull of the ship, reddening the water. On decks slippery with blood and littered with body parts, the crew fought fires and ship damage in order to keep the Liberty afloat, and tended to wounded, all while many were wounded themselves. Numerous commendations for heroism were awarded to crew members by the Navy, including a Medal of Honor, and then the crew's members ordered never to talk about the attack.
Supporting the thesis that the action was intended to be blamed on Egypt, and that President Lyndon B. Johnson may have had foreknowledge of it, is the coincidence that the US Sixth Fleet in the Mediterranean was conducting a drill in which warplanes were already equipped with live nuclear weapons. In addition, Admiral of the Fleet Lawrence Geis told another officer on that day that LBJ had recalled two groups of US planes he had sent from his ships to assist the Liberty. Geis told Lieutenant Commander David Lewis, the NSA commander on the Liberty, that in a frantic exchange with Secretary McNamara during the attack, Johnson:
"came on (the telephone) with a comment that he didn't care if the (Liberty) sunk, he would not embarrass his allies."
Geis swore Lieutenant Commander Lewis to secrecy while he, Geis, was alive. Lewis honored the request and did not speak until Geis passed in 1980.
Students of the USS Liberty attack who claim it was a "false flag" operation, in which an attack is intended to be blamed on an enemy in order to accomplish a wartime objective, point out the "Lavon Affair" in w

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/world/declassified-israeli-cables-add-evidence-usaliberty-no-accident/article/414951#ixzz3rNfT9ssn



Toward the end of the attack, Israeli torpedo boats pulled up at close range and machine-gunned the life-boats that were being lowered into the water by the Liberty crew in preparation to abandon ship, beginning with the most severely wounded.



Five days after the attack, Israeli Ambassador Avraham Harman worried that the deliberate nature of the attack had been uncovered, and cabled Foreign Minister Abba Eban that a source, code-named "Hamlet," had told him that the Americans had:
"clear proof that from a certain stage the pilot discovered the identity of the ship and continued the attack anyway."
As the diplomatic uproar over the attack played out, Harman cabled three days later that:
"the Americans probably have findings showing that our pilots indeed knew that the ship was American."



This has angered me for many, many years my friend and believe me I want retribution for this!!
I am firmly on Israel's side for its survival--but no way in hell will I forget or forgive them for this attack.
To date, they have paid no damn price for this and I want them to pay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not money-- but in blood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!-Tyr

jimnyc
11-13-2015, 09:20 AM
I find it interesting, that the person that argued to have this 'false flag' thing brought up, never returned once the thread was broke off. Odd that!

Gunny
11-13-2015, 09:30 AM
I find it interesting, that the person that argued to have this 'false flag' thing brought up, never returned once the thread was broke off. Odd that!

I'm not real cool with that either since that person has been on since it happened and every chance to respond. What *I* see is a lot of conspiracy junk being thrown against the wall to see what sticks.

Who cares about the USS Liberty? I think we should invade Cuba again over the USS Maine. :laugh:

NightTrain
11-13-2015, 10:34 AM
Declassified Israeli cables add evidence USS Liberty no accident
By Ralph Lopez Nov 14, 2014 in World
A Special Report by the Chicago Tribune details declassified cables, from the Israeli State Archive, which add further evidence that Israel knew it was attacking an American ship as it attacked the USS Liberty.




Sorry, buddy, but this "journalist" is a nutjob.

Let's look at a few of his other articles :

http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/world/bush-family-ties-to-terror-suspects-re-opened-by-9-11-28-pages/article/426577

^ Bush family tied to terrorists... lol

http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/world/9-11-report-testimony-altered-to-hide-cheney-roll-in-pentagon-hit/article/425008

^ Cheney's role in the 9/11 Pentagon attack... lol

http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/world/protesters-call-kissinger-war-criminal-in-hearing-mccain-fumes-breaking-news/article/424934

^ Kissinger as a War Criminal... lol

http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/world/editor-of-major-german-newspaper-says-he-planted-stories-for-cia/article/424470

^ CIA controlling the media... lol


I could go on, but you get the picture.

If anyone is taking up a collection for Ralph Lopez's bad tinfoil habit, I'll contribute. Let's get the young lad some industrial grade stuff - the ordinary household stuff clearly isn't doing shit for him.

Christie Brinkley
11-13-2015, 02:20 PM
Sorry, buddy, but this "journalist" is a nutjob.

Let's look at a few of his other articles :

http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/world/bush-family-ties-to-terror-suspects-re-opened-by-9-11-28-pages/article/426577

^ Bush family tied to terrorists... lol

http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/world/9-11-report-testimony-altered-to-hide-cheney-roll-in-pentagon-hit/article/425008

^ Cheney's role in the 9/11 Pentagon attack... lol

http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/world/protesters-call-kissinger-war-criminal-in-hearing-mccain-fumes-breaking-news/article/424934

^ Kissinger as a War Criminal... lol

http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/world/editor-of-major-german-newspaper-says-he-planted-stories-for-cia/article/424470

^ CIA controlling the media... lol


I could go on, but you get the picture.

If anyone is taking up a collection for Ralph Lopez's bad tinfoil habit, I'll contribute. Let's get the young lad some industrial grade stuff - the ordinary household stuff clearly isn't doing shit for him.
Have you actually read those articled you linked to and researched them yourself or have you just read their titles and in your ignorance and closed mindedness ruled them out?

How about disprove them with a debate instead of laughing at them like a bully in a school play ground throwing names and stereotypes around.

Abbey
11-13-2015, 02:24 PM
Christie Brinkley - I'm curious about your reason for bringing this up at this point in time. Can you expound?

Christie Brinkley
11-13-2015, 02:26 PM
@Christie Brinkley (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=3600) - I'm curious about your reason for bringing this up at this point in time. Can you expound?
I was reminded about the false flag terror attack by someone making a thread about a ship sinking killing around 25 people.

Gunny
11-13-2015, 02:30 PM
Have you actually read those articled you linked to and researched them yourself or have you just read their titles and in your ignorance and closed mindedness ruled them out?

How about disprove them with a debate instead of laughing at them like a bully in a school play ground throwing names and stereotypes around.

How about you educate yourself in more than just conspiracy propaganda? And you wore out that " you debate want to debate" excuse in the last thread. You don't debate. You get on your bullypulpit and preach like we're stupid. We don't know what's going on in our own country but YOU do. :tinfoil:

Black Diamond
11-13-2015, 02:31 PM
Have you actually read those articled you linked to and researched them yourself or have you just read their titles and in your ignorance and closed mindedness ruled them out?

How about disprove them with a debate instead of laughing at them like a bully in a school play ground throwing names and stereotypes around.
Just like we should prove the Bush administration wasn't behind the world trade center attack.

Gunny
11-13-2015, 02:36 PM
Just like we should prove the Bush administration wasn't behind the world trade center attack.

There's another laugher of a deal. Count the number of people it would take to carry out such a conspiracy and who wouldn't sell out to Fox or CNN .... oh yeah ... they all turned out to be AQ. My bad.

Christie Brinkley
11-13-2015, 02:36 PM
Just like we should prove the Bush administration wasn't behind the world trade center attack.
Of course the Bush administration was not behind the attacks. Criminals who operate and let the attacks happen are to blame. You can't make accusations like that. It is like all corrupt organisations there are different levels.

Black Diamond
11-13-2015, 02:39 PM
Of course the Bush administration was not behind the attacks. Criminals who operate and let the attacks happen are to blame. You can't make accusations like that. It is like all corrupt organisations there are different levels.

Tomato tomato. It's all fringe conspiracy theory horseshit.

Christie Brinkley
11-13-2015, 02:40 PM
Tomato tomato. It's all fringe conspiracy theory horseshit.
Again no debate just names and denial. Fine be ignorant then.

fj1200
11-13-2015, 02:42 PM
Of course the Bush administration was not behind the attacks. Criminals who operate and let the attacks happen are to blame. You can't make accusations like that. It is like all corrupt organisations there are different levels.

Who's that?

Black Diamond
11-13-2015, 02:45 PM
Who's that?

Bush, Cheney, and/or the infamous "they"

fj1200
11-13-2015, 02:48 PM
Bush, Cheney, and/or the infamous "they"

Are "they" the same as "them"? Because I don't like them one bit.

Gunny
11-13-2015, 02:57 PM
Again no debate just names and denial. Fine be ignorant then.

Okay. I'll try this another way. Who exactly do you expect to "debate" nonsense with you? Most of us are middle-aged and/or just old and see through the crap. You remind me of that college professor on the news .. you get to say what you want but we don't. But you believe in freedom of speech.

How many of us do you think are going to try to "debate" something that is illogical?

Christie Brinkley
11-13-2015, 02:59 PM
Okay. I'll try this another way. Who exactly do you expect to "debate" nonsense with you? Most of us are middle-aged and/or just old and see through the crap. You remind me of that college professor on the news .. you get to say what you want but we don't. But you believe in freedom of speech.

How many of us do you think are going to try to "debate" something that is illogical?
Using names and stereotypes "nonsense" you are not open to anything that contradicts your views.

Gunny
11-13-2015, 03:06 PM
Using names and stereotypes "nonsense" you are not open to anything that contradicts your views.

Your passive-aggressive crap doesn't work on me. You think after 21 years in the Marine Corps I haven't been analyzed and had therapy up the tail end? You want to debate? Bring a REAL argument. I'm more than happy to accommodate.

If all you got are conspiracy theories, I think there's a subforum for them.

Christie Brinkley
11-13-2015, 03:19 PM
Your passive-aggressive crap doesn't work on me. You think after 21 years in the Marine Corps I haven't been analyzed and had therapy up the tail end? You want to debate? Bring a REAL argument. I'm more than happy to accommodate.

If all you got are conspiracy theories, I think there's a subforum for them.
Conspiracy facts not theory. But again close your mind...

Abbey
11-13-2015, 03:32 PM
I was reminded about the false flag terror attack by someone making a thread about a ship sinking killing around 25 people.


Okay, I get that, so let me put it this way, then: Why do you care enough all these years later to cite a conspiracy theory about it? Did you have a relative who died on the ship. for example?
There must be something more than just being reminded...

Gunny
11-13-2015, 03:40 PM
Conspiracy facts not theory. But again close your mind...

Again, the passive aggressive crap doesn't work. There's NO fact. What I WILL say is this ...

You need to lighten up. You can be as screwy as you want around here. I'm not your enemy. You conspiracy theorists get bent out of shape at anyone that doesn't believe the crap. Just put it in the proper subforum? Would be kind of you.

Seems to me, you want to be judgmental and fight. Go to Yale? Communications professor? I'll be 56 next month. The USS Liberty incident happened when I was 7. It happened during the 6 Day War when we were stationed in Key West. Stick your gun boat in the middle of someone else's war and guess what? It's THAT simple.

You know how many people were killed by friendly?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_friendly_fire_incidents

But you want to make an issue out of one incident. If you want to run your mouth, run it with some facts. Looks like your country tops the list. Don't it?

aboutime
11-13-2015, 07:23 PM
Conspiracy junkies are like assholes. Everybody has one.

And some still insist THE EARTH IS FLAT!!!!



http://youtu.be/XKKPeoVcs30


Love this crap. Anyone who has ever flown above the dirt, and water knows....IT AIN'T!

NightTrain
11-14-2015, 12:06 AM
Have you actually read those articled you linked to and researched them yourself or have you just read their titles and in your ignorance and closed mindedness ruled them out?

How about disprove them with a debate instead of laughing at them like a bully in a school play ground throwing names and stereotypes around.


How about you grow the hell up and see through the simpleminded conspiracy theories you love to bandy about?

Don't get pissed off at me if I laugh my ass off at them - you're the idiot that espouses such nonsense.

Any fruitloop that thinks Bush & Cheney were behind the 911 attacks needs Cranial Rectal surgery, and those bullshit stories appear to be right up your alley, judging from many of your snarky posts you've engaged in since you've arrived.

Your shrill anti-American bullshit you picked up at the usual liberal websites around the net and silly conspiracy theories grow thin. I think the entire board has tolerated your shitty comments admirably, and with considerable restraint.

I haven't bullied anyone, but if you feel like going toe to toe with me, I'm your huckleberry.

Jeff
11-14-2015, 07:45 AM
Make the thread. I'll discuss it. Between babysitting. :laugh:

Let me guess ... you got banned by Jillian .....

Jillian was cool, I would love to drop in there just to fuck with her, she made that very easy to do, :laugh::laugh::laugh:

revelarts
11-14-2015, 08:20 AM
Declassified Israeli cables add evidence USS Liberty no accident
By Ralph Lopez Nov 14, 2014 in World
A Special Report by the Chicago Tribune details declassified cables, from the Israeli State Archive, which add further evidence that Israel knew it was attacking an American ship as it attacked the USS Liberty.

Declassified Israeli cables add evidence USS Liberty no accident
By Ralph Lopez Nov 14, 2014 in World
A Special Report by the Chicago Tribune details declassified cables, from the Israeli State Archive, which add further evidence that Israel knew it was attacking an American ship as it attacked the USS Liberty.
1 of 2
[Chicago Tribune: "New Revelations in Attack on American Spy Ship,"]
Last month, a new documentary broadcast a tape for the first time, of Israeli military transmissions during the attack, which established that the ship was confirmed to be U.S. by 2:14pm that day, local time. The timeline of the attack establishes that the attack continued for another hour after that time.
The existence of the tape is confirmed by transcripts published in the Jerusalem Post in 2004.

The cables obtained by the Tribune, and translated from Hebrew to English, are were published in a 2007 special report. They detail exchanges between the Israeli ambassador in Washington and the Israeli foreign minister in Tel Aviv. Five days after the attack, Israeli Ambassador Avraham Harman worried that the deliberate nature of the attack had been uncovered, and cabled Foreign Minister Abba Eban that a source, code-named "Hamlet," had told him that the Americans had:
"clear proof that from a certain stage the pilot discovered the identity of the ship and continued the attack anyway."
As the diplomatic uproar over the attack played out, Harman cabled three days later that:
"the Americans probably have findings showing that our pilots indeed knew that the ship was American."
One of the sources of the information passed on by the Israeli ambassador was the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Arthur Goldberg, according to Israeli historian Tom Segev.
The 1967 attack, which the Israeli government said was an accident, has been festering, with survivors once again unanimously renewing their call for a congressional investigation. The survivors say the attack is the only incident involving major damage to an American ship and great loss of life which has never been accorded such an investigation.
Instead, the investigation was relegated to a U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry, presided over by Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., father of John McCain, the US senator and former presidential candidate. In 2003 the lead counsel for the Court, Captain Ward Boston, stepped forward to say that the Court had been ordered by President Lyndon B. Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara to conclude that the attack had been a case of mistaken identity, "despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary." Captain Boston resigned from the Court before the inquiry was complete. He passed away in 2008.
Thirty four US servicemen were killed in the attack, and hundreds wounded. In the new documentary "The Day Israel Attacked America," survivors of the attack go on-camera to again recount their memories, and to reiterate their firm conviction, in which they have been joined by a long list of top military and political figures, that the attack was a deliberate attempt to sink an American ship.
Supporters include former NSA Director Bobby Ray Inman and the late US Secretary of State, under Lyndon Johnson, Dean Rusk. Supporters of the survivors, such as the late Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Thomas Moorer, say the reason for the attack may have been to blame the sinking of the ship on Egypt, with which Israel was at war at the time. This would have drawn the US into the Six Day War on the Israeli side.

There is little doubt, given the damage and the prolonged nature of the attack, that the Israeli military struggled to sink the ship. Over the course of the hour-and-a-half attack, numerous Israeli jet fighters and high-speed torpedo boats expended over 800 rounds of 30mm cannon, air-to-surface rockets, heat-seeking missiles, napalm bombs, and five torpedoes.
Toward the end of the attack, Israeli torpedo boats pulled up at close range and machine-gunned the life-boats that were being lowered into the water by the Liberty crew in preparation to abandon ship, beginning with the most severely wounded.
According to Geneva Article 12, the rules of war prohibit firing upon the wounded, or those attempting to evacuate them, at any time. Such action is considered an international war crime.
The new documentary, produced and directed by award-winning British film maker Richard Belfield, is riveting in the details recounted by the survivors of the Liberty, such as the clear memory of blood streaming down the hull of the ship, reddening the water. On decks slippery with blood and littered with body parts, the crew fought fires and ship damage in order to keep the Liberty afloat, and tended to wounded, all while many were wounded themselves. Numerous commendations for heroism were awarded to crew members by the Navy, including a Medal of Honor, and then the crew's members ordered never to talk about the attack.
Supporting the thesis that the action was intended to be blamed on Egypt, and that President Lyndon B. Johnson may have had foreknowledge of it, is the coincidence that the US Sixth Fleet in the Mediterranean was conducting a drill in which warplanes were already equipped with live nuclear weapons. In addition, Admiral of the Fleet Lawrence Geis told another officer on that day that LBJ had recalled two groups of US planes he had sent from his ships to assist the Liberty. Geis told Lieutenant Commander David Lewis, the NSA commander on the Liberty, that in a frantic exchange with Secretary McNamara during the attack, Johnson:
"came on (the telephone) with a comment that he didn't care if the (Liberty) sunk, he would not embarrass his allies."
Geis swore Lieutenant Commander Lewis to secrecy while he, Geis, was alive. Lewis honored the request and did not speak until Geis passed in 1980.
Students of the USS Liberty attack who claim it was a "false flag" operation, in which an attack is intended to be blamed on an enemy in order to accomplish a wartime objective, point out the "Lavon Affair" in w

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/world/declassified-israeli-cables-add-evidence-usaliberty-no-accident/article/414951#ixzz3rNfT9ssn


This has angered me for many, many years my friend and believe me I want retribution for this!!
I am firmly on Israel's side for its survival--but no way in hell will I forget or forgive them for this attack.
To date, they have paid no damn price for this and I want them to pay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not money-- but in blood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!-Tyr

I with you here but I'm not for blood.
But for a full PUBLIC admission, PUBLIC apology, and reparations and honors to the families.
And dishonors to those that ordered the attack.



But i have question for the military here?
If you were ordered to attack an unengaged known ally's ship, plane or troops would you verbally question the order?
would your follow the order?
would you expose the order and the attack after you'd done it?

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
11-14-2015, 09:19 AM
Sorry, buddy, but this "journalist" is a nutjob.

Let's look at a few of his other articles :

http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/world/bush-family-ties-to-terror-suspects-re-opened-by-9-11-28-pages/article/426577

^ Bush family tied to terrorists... lol

http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/world/9-11-report-testimony-altered-to-hide-cheney-roll-in-pentagon-hit/article/425008

^ Cheney's role in the 9/11 Pentagon attack... lol

http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/world/protesters-call-kissinger-war-criminal-in-hearing-mccain-fumes-breaking-news/article/424934

^ Kissinger as a War Criminal... lol

http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/world/editor-of-major-german-newspaper-says-he-planted-stories-for-cia/article/424470

^ CIA controlling the media... lol


I could go on, but you get the picture.

If anyone is taking up a collection for Ralph Lopez's bad tinfoil habit, I'll contribute. Let's get the young lad some industrial grade stuff - the ordinary household stuff clearly isn't doing shit for him.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

USS Liberty incident
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
USS Liberty incident
Part of the Six-Day War
USS Liberty.jpg
Damaged USS Liberty one day (9 June 1967) after attack.
Date 8 June 1967
Location Mediterranean Sea near Sinai Peninsula[1]
Result See aftermath
Participants
Israel United States
Commanders and leaders
Captain Iftach Spector
Commander Moshe Oren Commander William L. McGonagle
Strength
2 Mirage IIIs
2 Mystères
3 motor torpedo boats 1 Technical research ship
Casualties and losses
None 34 killed
171 wounded
1 ship heavily damaged
[show] v t e
Six-Day War
The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS
Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy motor torpedo boats,
on 8 June 1967, during the Six-Day War.[2] The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew
members (naval officers, seamen, two marines, and one civilian), wounded 171 crew members,
and severely damaged the ship.[3] At the time, the ship was in international waters north
of the Sinai Peninsula, about 25.5 nmi (29.3 mi; 47.2 km) northwest from the Egyptian city
of Arish.[1][4]
Israel apologized for the attack, saying that the USS Liberty had been attacked in error
after being mistaken for an Egyptian ship.[5] Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted
inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion
about the ship's identity,[6] though others, including survivors of the attack, have rejected
these conclusions and maintain that the attack was deliberate.[7]
In May 1968, the Israeli government paid US$3,323,500 (US$22.6 million 2015) in compensation to
the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3,566,457
to the men who had been wounded. On 18 December 1980, it agreed to pay $6 million as settlement
for the final U.S. bill of $17,132,709 for material damage to Liberty herself plus 13 years'
interest.[8]



Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted
inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion
about the ship's identity,[6] though others, including survivors of the attack, have rejected
these conclusions and maintain that the attack was deliberate.[7]

I completely disagree . Wiki source cited above and a source of my own--story told to me in the early 80's by a man whose relative( his uncle I believe) was on the ship and injured. He swore the Israeli's knew and we knew they knew , but were sending a message to us. That message was "dont ffkk with us"!!!

And had we tried to defeat them this nation would have been destroyed IMHO... GOD WILL NOT ALLOW ANY OTHER COURSE THAN THE ONE IN THE BOOK OF REVELATIONS IMHO..
(STILL MY NATIVE AMERICAN BLOOD BOILS AT THEM GETTING BY WITH GUNNING DOWN OUR GUYS AND GETTING BY WITH IT)..
STILL IT BOILS EVERY TIME THIS SUBJECT COMES UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We should remember that at that time Israel as a modern nation was less than 20 years old and were fighting for their very survival. USA was not at that point its staunch ally.
I'll go to my grave believing that they knew all along that we spied on them too and they resented that!
Remember even then , we could not be trusted with secrets! And we had what we thought were ARAB NATIONS AS ALLIES!
My thinking is either Israel thought or else they knew we were feeding info to both sides(I THINK WE WERE)!
Remember we were highly, highly, highly dependent on Arab oil!

I GO WITH THE EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS AND THE JUDGMENT OF THE WOUNDED SURVIVORS OF THAT SHIP.--Tyr