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Kathianne
12-10-2015, 09:22 PM
I really HATE when I find myself in a position of agreeing with some of the things he says for the simple reason if one really listens, there's always a caveat.

http://thefederalist.com/2015/12/10/when-it-comes-to-donald-trump-i-hate-everyone/ (http://thefederalist.com/2015/12/10/when-it-comes-to-donald-trump-i-hate-everyone/)





2016 (http://thefederalist.com/category/2016/)


<header class="entry-header" style="color: rgb(119, 119, 119); font-family: 'PT Sans', sans-serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: center;">When It Comes To Donald Trump, I Hate Everyone (http://thefederalist.com/2015/12/10/when-it-comes-to-donald-trump-i-hate-everyone/)

</header>
I hate Donald Trump, people who love Donald Trump, people who hate Donald Trump, and media who cover Donald Trump.


We’re now in month eight or so of Trumpmania. He has a core of support, and the media can’t get enough of him. The effect he has on people is fascinating. But it’s also remarkably annoying. Every casual utterance by Trump leads the news cycle until the subsequent outrage. And everyone flips out. Trump flips out. His fans flip out. His enemies flip out. The media flip out.



It’s enough to make you hate everyone. In fact, it does make me hate everyone. That probably includes you. Here’s a list of everyone in the Trump saga who is awful.

Donald Trump


I admire Donald Trump’s ability to singlehandedly control national conversations (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/428200/donald-trump-overton-window-american-political-debate), expose the media as corrupt, and generate popular support through sheer force of entertainment will. I am serious. I think he’s an absolutely brilliant communicator operating at levels we’ve not seen before. He is the closest thing to the physical incarnation of the Sweet Meteor of Death 2016 (https://twitter.com/smod2016?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7C twgr%5Eauthor) that some have been praying for. Oh, and as someone who truly loathes the Republican Party for its incompetence and impotence, I sometimes love that he’s destroying it with such efficiency.



But he’s a demagogue with no real solutions for anything at all. He’s a narcissist who takes no responsibility for the negative consequences of his ill-conceived and incoherent verbal spews. He flip-flops incessantly. He is not honest when called to account for previous things he’s said. He insults individuals and groups of people gratuitously. His ideas always involve an expansion in the size and scope of government. And his blow-ups seem perfectly timed to help people in the party he’s not running in (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/428222/donald-trump-hillary-clinton).



Donald Trump Fans


I know many of the people who say they’re voting for Trump are probably just normal people who don’t pay a ton of attention to politics and think he’s an entertaining fellow who is funny and candid. It’s not entirely surprising that a man who has been a household name for decades would enjoy the support he has. I’m a political junkie, and once a week I have to think really hard about who all the candidates running for president even are. And another portion of his voters are probably people who are just sick to death of Washington, D.C., even if they’re not particularly ideological.



A Twitter user who goes by the name Political Math (https://twitter.com/politicalmath/status/674278089451507712) said of these people, and please excuse his French, “The world makes a lot of sense when you realize that the #1 priority of Trump supporters is to tell you to go [expletive deleted] yourself.” He added, “And I don’t mean this as a slur: Trump supporters are really just *more* sick of bull[deleted] out of DC than they care about Trump.”

Listen, I also hate the Republican Party and think it deserves to die in a fire (for reasons discussed here (http://thefederalist.com/2015/09/03/the-gops-loyalty-pledge-targeting-trump-is-ridiculous-heres-a-better-idea/)). This is a political party that has squandered majorities, favored the elite donor class over the base, and not only failed to thwart the creation and expansion of the administrative state, but in fact enabled it. It has shown disdain for conservative principles and people, even as it relied on them for victory. I’m sick of it, too.



So I get wanting to send a message. (And if you don’t get it, I commend this interview (http://www.urbanophile.com/2015/11/05/why-the-republican-base-hates-the-gop-establishment-and-loves-donald-trump/)by Urbanophile’s Aaron Renn of his father, who is a Trump supporter.)



But don’t pretend that Trump has ideas, much less ideas that are good. Yes, he fights! Oh how he fights. And after years of Republican candidates sputtering and cowering in the face of stupid progressive questioning, that is an enjoyable thing to see. Although, it must be said that for someone who fights he sure does whine a hell of a lot. Just in the time I’ve written this, I’ve seen him whine about a half dozen different people. Trump’s support is based on his toughness. So why do he and his supporters cry like little babies anytime someone critiques him even slightly? I don’t get it.



In any case, there are real problems in this country and in this world, and don’t confuse message-sending support for Trump with actual support for Trump. And consider that you hate the Republican Party because of how poorly it has performed in service of the causes you care about; ask yourself whether the solution you’ve found yourself embracing is actually an improvement. Yes, it’s cathartic and you are scaring the hell out of the rest of the country, including those portions that have treated you with contempt for many years. But, again, there are serious governance issues that require a serious person who actually knows what in the hell he or she is doing. Get it together, you know?



Donald Trump Haters



OK, you people really annoy me. Ace of Spades put it well when he said you are like a divorced man who is obsessed with his ex-wife. He thinks everything she does is awful, and he can’t stop talking about her to other people to try to get them to agree. Yes, Trump is crazy and awful. Granted. But screaming about it constantly makes you seem crazy, too. Meghan Keane Graham once wrote an essay about how a crazy man on the subway (http://www.nypress.com/8-million-stories-pretty-nice-for-a-prostitute/) picked a fight with her. After a few stops, she realized that nobody on the subway car had witnessed the original altercation and that meant that nobody on the subway knew that he was crazy and she was not. It was even odds, at that point, which one was crazy. Maybe both were. That’s what you people remind me of all the time.


A few months ago, some people who hate Trump completely lost it over his claim that he would not do the CNBC debate unless they agreed to shorten it. People I otherwise respect were going off about how this demand of Trump’s showed his disdain for the electoral process. No, it didn’t. It was actually quite smart of him. And if you complain about stuff that doesn’t matter, we get Chicken Little scenarios that do not work in your favor.



Also, if you hate Trump, which makes a lot of sense if you’re a rational person, could you reserve some anger for those figures and forces that brought us to this place? An old blog post by Megan McArdle has stuck with me over the last five years. It’s basically about how no matter what you thought about Obamacare’s passage, the manner in which it passed was cause for concern (http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2010/03/the-future-after-health-care/37799/). She wrote:




Are we now in a world where there is absolutely no recourse to the tyranny of the majority? Republicans and other opponents of the bill did their job on this; they persuaded the country that they didn’t want this bill. And that mattered basically not at all. If you don’t find that terrifying, let me suggest that you are a Democrat who has not yet contemplated what Republicans might do under similar circumstances.



The media, powerful corporate lobbyists, and the Democratic Party wanted something over the will of the voters. Perhaps Obamacare was the most dramatic legislative example, but time and again elite institutions extend their giant middle fingers to people, running roughshod over them. The size and scope of government grows through an administrative state that is evermore confusing and complex. We tell people they can keep their doctors, when they can’t. Courts gratuitously rule against the people. At some point you can’t be surprised when people are just fed up with playing the game according to rules always working against them.



If you hate Trump, that’s fine. But have the decency to hate other deserving people, too.



Media Who Cover Donald Trump


I’m not even talking about the conservative entertainment complex, whose star players seem downright scared to challenge Trump in any way. They have beclowned themselves, and their shame is upon them.



I’m talking about the political media. Matt Bai’s “All The Truth Is Out” (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JNQKQYC/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?ie=UTF8&btkr=1) (2014) and Daniel Boorstin’s “The Image: A Guide To Pseudo-Events in America” (http://www.amazon.com/Image-Guide-Pseudo-Events-America-ebook/dp/B0082XLP7O/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1449725907&sr=1-1&keywords=pseudoevent) (1962) are good books to read about why political reporting wasn’t going so well even decades ago. But this has really been a banner year in awfulness.



The media flat out reward Trump for saying outlandish things by giving him even more airtime than previously. This perverse incentive structure has been going on for months. He is able to call in to any show he wants and is put on the air. He can completely dominate the conversation and control the conversation any time he wants.



One pundit noted that the homepages for various major media outlets — just the homepages alone — showed dozens of Trump references at Huffington Post, USA Today, Washington Post, The Hill, Politico, and various other media outlets.

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CNN's politics page RIGHT NOW
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9:56 AM - 9 Dec 2015


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All 5 of the top 5 stories at the NYT politics page are currently Trump
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10:05 AM - 9 Dec 2015




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It’s a compulsion, or some kind of codependency. It started out bad, and it keeps getting worse. How would a voter even know if other people are running? The only time you’re guaranteed to see mentions of other candidates is for the daily stories about whether they denounced Trump’s latest statement.



So when Trump proposed to halt Muslim entry to the country as a security measure, you saw a familiar pattern. The media flipped out. The media didn’t quite accurately convey his actual plan, such as it was. The media then demanded other candidates (https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/674305851776237569) andelected officials (https://twitter.com/justinjm1/status/674297878320427009) and pundits (https://twitter.com/RosieGray/status/674441406837059584) denounce the proposal. When they did, there were stories about the GOP’s “escalating rhetoric” and when they merely disagreed but didn’t denounce, there were stories aghast about that (http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2015/12/08/ted-cruz-disagrees-with-trump-muslim-ban-but-wont-criticize-him-for-it/?mod=WSJBlog&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed), too.



Compare that to President Obama’s proposal on Sunday night to deny constitutionally protected rights without due process to anyone put on a secret list. Keep in mind that this was a proposal by a sitting U.S. president, not a mere candidate. First off, no media flipped out (a few days later the Los Angeles Times criticized the plan). Many media didn’t accurately convey his actual plan (was it a no-fly list or something else?), but in a way that helped make it seem less extreme. They did not demand other Democrats denounce the proposal, which would surely have targeted mostly Muslims. They did not write stories about escalating rhetoric. They did not write stories about Democrats refusing to denounce a plan that would violate civil liberties of Muslims.



When Trump announced his plan, two New York Times political reporters immediately wrote a piece described by colleagues as “hard-hitting (https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/674243617003855872).” And yet there has been very little coverage, particularly very little hard-hitting coverage of an actual Obama administration official speaking against constitutionally protected free speech rights and religious freedom. BuzzFeed broke the story but The New York Times hasn’t even published a story about Attorney General Loretta Lynch’s comments about going after anti-Muslim rhetoric (http://www.buzzfeed.com/johnstanton/loretta-lynch-actions-predicated-on-violent-talk-toward-musl#.imLpbAYzB). Shouldn’t an actual proposal by someone in power be vetted at least as much as a campaigning politician’s every word?



I know that Trump is this year’s Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, but is it too much to ask our political press to not fall into precisely the same pattern with every single passage of gas from the bloviator? Instead could we chart a more moderate press coverage path? NBC went from cutting business ties with Trump in June to asking him to host “Saturday Night Live” a few months later. The Huffington Post said they wouldn’t cover him on the politics page but then did. BuzzFeed’s self-righteous memo (https://twitter.com/buzzfeedben/status/674417675813019648) on how to talk about Trump was unnecessary.



Yes, the media industry is just a way to make money via entertaining presentation of the news, and, yes, Trump is getting the media clicks we only dream about. But if there is any sense of gratitude for the role we’re allowed to play in the project of maintaining a civil society, could we just work to achieve a bit more balance? Neither self-abasing freakouts nor servile accommodations regarding Trump?



In any case, the point is that I hate everybody, even if I didn’t get around to mentioning you in particular.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
12-10-2015, 09:31 PM
I really HATE when I find myself in a position of agreeing with some of the things he says for the simple reason if one really listens, there's always a caveat.

http://thefederalist.com/2015/12/10/when-it-comes-to-donald-trump-i-hate-everyone/ (http://thefederalist.com/2015/12/10/when-it-comes-to-donald-trump-i-hate-everyone/)

My bad, did another person try to trash Trump--yet again?
I guess it just doesn't matter that he says what 20 million of us are thinking and screaming to no avail.
Or that he far more likely to do most of what he says he will do than any of the other candidates he is running against.
I pray that he wins and he does even more than he says he will do!
As he does not go far enough for me but I am just a patriot and nothing more.
Just an honest guy that sees the shit running the show, the shit doing the blow, the shit spitting on us and the shit that so damn desperately needs to be flushed.-Tyr

Kathianne
12-10-2015, 09:37 PM
My bad, did another person try to trash Trump--yet again?
I guess it just doesn't matter that he says what 20 million of us are thinking and screaming to no avail.
Or that he far more likely to do most of what he says he will do than any of the other candidates he is running against.
I pray that he wins and he does even more than he says he will do!
As he does not go far enough for me but I am just a patriot and nothing more.
Just an honest guy that sees the shit running the show, the shit doing the blow, the shit spitting on us and the shit that so damn desperately needs to be flushed.-Tyr

I'm as patriotic as you, so is the person who wrote the column. I don't follow blindly, no matter how bombastic someone else is trying to be.

I've given a myriad of reasons over months of why I feel the way I do. That others do not agree, does not make them more or less patriotic than myself.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
12-10-2015, 09:51 PM
I'm as patriotic as you, so is the person who wrote the column. I don't follow blindly, no matter how bombastic someone else is trying to be.

I've given a myriad of reasons over months of why I feel the way I do. That others do not agree, does not make them more or less patriotic than myself.

And I have no problem with you supporting another candidate as is your right to do.
I myself, do not see the proof in any of this damnation of Trump or at least not that it exists at any greater level than exists in the other candidates. Its just Trump gets the hits for it whereas they do not.
Thats fine too, as its politics.
I hope you do not think my post was directed solely at you .
It was directed at everybody.
I stand in my own dog stand, tether firmly attached into the ground , quiver full of arrows--
with a dog soldier's lance and oath..

"Dog soldier"- Used in context as a Native American term... My Indian blood speaks.

Nothing rude, insulting or personal directed at you Kat..
Just expressing myself as are you my friend.. -Tyr

Kathianne
12-10-2015, 09:56 PM
No one has spouted more venom at the other candidates than Trump. No one, including Hillary have received more free airtime than Trump.

Save your tears, he more than takes care of himself.

I just hope that all of his supporters feel good about this in 2017, with Hillary as president. Me? I don't know if the country can take more of this, but I fear we're going to find out. As I said to Jim, whether she wins against Trump as GOP or as 3rd party, there will not be enough votes for anyone but Hillary.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
12-10-2015, 10:46 PM
No one has spouted more venom at the other candidates than Trump. No one, including Hillary have received more free airtime than Trump.

Save your tears, he more than takes care of himself.

I just hope that all of his supporters feel good about this in 2017, with Hillary as president. Me? I don't know if the country can take more of this, but I fear we're going to find out. As I said to Jim, whether she wins against Trump as GOP or as 3rd party, there will not be enough votes for anyone but Hillary.

An nobody has had more venom aimed at them individually than has Trump--and that coming from both sides in his case.
So its politics but not as usual. Its an alliance with republican leadership and the dems to sink Trump.
Now to me that says all I'll ever need to know about why they fear him.
And that fear is they know he will do or at least he will attempt to do most of what he promises.
And what he promises answers most of what we conservatives have been screaming about for 7 long years.

Perhaps you may have missed that if he doesn't get the nod, I support whichever other Republican candidate that does. Even the four that I basically despise.

And just to be clear, I did not question your patriotism nor even asked who you support my friend. -Tyr

Kathianne
12-10-2015, 10:54 PM
An nobody has had more venom aimed at them individually than has Trump--and that coming from both sides in his case.
So its politics but not as usual. Its an alliance with republican leadership and the dems to sink Trump.
Now to me that says all I'll ever need to know about why they fear him.
And that fear is they know he will do or at least he will attempt to do most of what he promises.
And what he promises answers most of what we conservatives have been screaming about for 7 long years.

Perhaps you may have missed that if he doesn't get the nod, I support whichever other Republican candidate that does. Even the four that I basically despise.

And just to be clear, I did not question your patriotism nor even asked who you support my friend. -Tyr

I understand that you are not questioning my patriotism. However over the previous 8 months there's been a tendency on this board that if one doesn't agree that Trump is great, even if supporting someone else, then they are not truly conservative or care about the country. The later really is about patriotism, no?

I don't think there is any conspiracy between the GOP and DNC leadership or media. In general, Democrats are loving Trump, for very good reason. Hillary should be unelectable. She isn't now, they can and do thank those supporting Trump, especially those who will not support anyone else.

What the GOP has a problem with is that there isn't 'anyone else', the other candidates that gain any attention are immediately dogged by Trump and his supporters. Yes, the media loves to highlight that.

One would almost think the conspiracy would be between Trump, his supporters, and the liberal agenda. That is the one succeeding.

gabosaurus
12-10-2015, 11:12 PM
It is walks like a ducks, talks like a duck and is generally as smart as a duck, it must be a supporter of Donald Duck Trump.

https://i.imgflip.com/vkxxg.jpg

Elessar
12-11-2015, 01:59 AM
I understand that you are not questioning my patriotism. However over the previous 8 months there's been a tendency on this board that if one doesn't agree that Trump is great, even if supporting someone else, then they are not truly conservative or care about the country. The later really is about patriotism, no?

I don't think there is any conspiracy between the GOP and DNC leadership or media. In general, Democrats are loving Trump, for very good reason. Hillary should be unelectable. She isn't now, they can and do thank those supporting Trump, especially those who will not support anyone else.

What the GOP has a problem with is that there isn't 'anyone else', the other candidates that gain any attention are immediately dogged by Trump and his supporters. Yes, the media loves to highlight that.

One would almost think the conspiracy would be between Trump, his supporters, and the liberal agenda. That is the one succeeding.


I still feel for Trump to succeed, he needs a strong running mate that would grab him by the lapels, and
say..."Listen Here".!

But people are hearing him and agreeing with him.

Liberals cannot stand it, because their fragile
empire is at stake.

Hillary is dog meat, not fit to run a
model railroad.

Black Diamond
12-11-2015, 02:07 AM
I still feel for Trump to succeed, he needs a strong running mate that would grab him by the lapels, and
say..."Listen Here".!

But people are hearing him and agreeing with him.

Liberals cannot stand it, because their fragile
empire is at stake.

Hillary is dog meat, not fit to run a
model railroad.
She would burn out the transformers

Black Diamond
12-11-2015, 02:08 AM
I still feel for Trump to succeed, he needs a strong running mate that would grab him by the lapels, and
say..."Listen Here".!

But people are hearing him and agreeing with him.

Liberals cannot stand it, because their fragile
empire is at stake.

Hillary is dog meat, not fit to run a
model railroad.
Who would be a running mate? Cruz?

fj1200
12-11-2015, 10:01 AM
I still feel for Trump to succeed, he needs a strong running mate that would grab him by the lapels, and
say..."Listen Here".!

Do you honestly think he would give that authority to anyone?


Who would be a running mate? Cruz?

Who hasn't he offended?

revelarts
12-11-2015, 11:26 AM
I understand that you are not questioning my patriotism. However over the previous 8 months there's been a tendency on this board that if one doesn't agree that Trump is great, even if supporting someone else, then they are not truly conservative or care about the country. The later really is about patriotism, no?
I don't think there is any conspiracy between the GOP and DNC leadership or media. In general, Democrats are loving Trump, for very good reason.

Hillary should be unelectable. She isn't now, they can and do thank those supporting Trump, especially those who will not support anyone else.

What the GOP has a problem with is that there isn't 'anyone else', the other candidates that gain any attention are immediately dogged by Trump and his supporters. Yes, the media loves to highlight that. One would almost think the conspiracy would be between Trump, his supporters, and the liberal agenda. That is the one succeeding.

I'll beat a dead horse again.
But some complained about Ron Paul hurting the party. but he was operating on old school conservative policies and principals, and he didn't run 3rd party. and left the race after being bully out by the rank and file. and the R's still lost.
Trump is running of FEELING not policies or principals the same as Obama did.
But Hillary is NO where near the feel good politician Obama is, nearly any R should be able to beat Hillary into to the ground (except Trump and Jeb)
Just speaking on raw political gamesmanship and not policy, Finioa would KILL Hillary, Carson would have Hillary in a political media Judo hold, Even people who have dropped out of the race would look shinny and bright standing next to the vile and corrupt Clinton trying to appear sincere in D vs R debates.

But Trump v hillary there's not enough water to hose down the stage with obtth of those there.

Perianne
12-11-2015, 05:29 PM
I'll beat a dead horse again.
But some complained about Ron Paul hurting the party. but he was operating on old school conservative policies and principals, and he didn't run 3rd party. and left the race after being bully out by the rank and file. and the R's still lost.
Trump is running of FEELING not policies or principals the same as Obama did.
But Hillary is NO where near the feel good politician Obama is, nearly any R should be able to beat Hillary into to the ground (except Trump and Jeb)
Just speaking on raw political gamesmanship and not policy, Finioa would KILL Hillary, Carson would have Hillary in a political media Judo hold, Even people who have dropped out of the race would look shinny and bright standing next to the vile and corrupt Clinton trying to appear sincere in D vs R debates.

But Trump v hillary there's not enough water to hose down the stage with obtth of those there.

Others disagree. And thus the problem for the GOP.