UK Government 'Missing' A Million Immigrants? [Archive] - Debate Policy

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Kathianne

12-17-2015, 09:09 PM

Does this cause problems?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12057025/Government-accused-of-cover-up-as-data-suggests-million-EU-migrants-unaccounted-for-in-Britain.html

Government accused of cover-up as data suggests million EU migrants unaccounted for in BritainHMRC fails to release data which could show true number of EU migrants coming to Britain because it would be 'unhelpful' to renegotiation
By Peter Dominiczak (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/peter-dominiczak/), Ben Riley-Smith and Steven Swinford in Brussels

10:00PM GMT 17 Dec 2015

David Cameron has been accused of a "migration cover-up" after it emerged that more than a million migrants who have come to the UK in recent years are unaccounted for.

Ministers have failed to release data which experts believe could show the true number of EU migrants coming to the UK, claiming that it would be “unhelpful” to Mr Cameron’s current renegotiation with Brussels ahead of the in-out referendum (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/11617702/poll.html).

There were accusations that the figures are being suppressed amid fears that releasing the data could lead to Britain leaving the EU (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12054924/More-Britons-want-to-leave-the-EU-than-stay.html).

Experts warned that it could mean the number of migrants coming to Britain from the EU is actually hundreds of thousands higher than previously thought.

It came as Mr Cameron was left isolated as more than a dozen European leaders spoke out ahead of a crucial Brussels summit to say that they would opposeoppose his plans to strip EU workers of in-work benefits (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11924603/David-Camerons-four-key-demands-to-remain-in-the-EU-revealed.html) for four years.

Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and the Czech Republic issued a joint statement ahead of the debate, saying that they "will not support any solutions which would be discriminatory or limit free movement".

...

Drummond

12-17-2015, 09:54 PM

Does this cause problems?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12057025/Government-accused-of-cover-up-as-data-suggests-million-EU-migrants-unaccounted-for-in-Britain.html

This is the first I've seen of this story. I can't completely discount it. However, in one significant respect, it doesn't add up.

According to this - the HMRC has not released data which would show their understanding of the true position. Well ... the HMRC is a Civil Service Government Department, answerable to Government. If ordered to release data it had, it would not be in a position to refuse to obey its masters ! So to say that HMRC itself has refused to disclose such information seems improbable. It would have to be directed, at a very high level, to fail to disclose it.

We have such a thing as a 'Freedom of Information' request. Members of the public can ask, under the Freedom of Information Act, to have such data disclosed. Again .. a deliberate decision would have to be taken to classify this as un-disclosable, and I fail to see how the one asking could fail to be informed, categorically, of such a refusal, with the reason for refusal needing to be cited at the time.

https://www.gov.uk/make-a-freedom-of-information-request/the-freedom-of-information-act

The Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) gives you the right to access recorded information held by public sector organisations.

Anyone can request information – there are no restrictions on your age, nationality or where you live.

Your request will be handled under different regulations depending on the kind of information you ask for, eg the:

Data Protection Act if you ask for information an organisation holds about you

Environmental Information Regulations (EIRs) if you ask for environmental information

An organisation could refuse your request if the information is sensitive or the costs are too high.

I think that any accusation of a deliberate 'cover up' is unlikely to be true ... more likely, if anything like that number are unaccounted for, it comes down to administrative failure of one sort or another. The EU's open border policy, I'm sure, hasn't exactly helped either, nor yet the crowds of illegals who massed on the French side of the Channel Tunnel, trying, night after night, to breach the fences and barriers erected to stop them making the crossing to the UK.

Kathianne

12-17-2015, 10:01 PM

Drummond

12-17-2015, 10:24 PM

I don't know enough about UK's policies but found related:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3365086/A-cynical-cover-migrants-Whitehall-won-t-reveal-number-EU-workers-UK-unhelpful-Cameron-s-Brussels-negotiations.html

http://www.newindianexpress.com/world/Million-Migrants-Lost-From-Figures/2015/12/18/article3184000.ece

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3363805/David-Cameron-heads-make-break-Brussels-summit.html

The first of your links helps to confirm what I've said about how the Freedom of Information Act works. Judging from the report, information was refused because it was of an especially sensitive nature. As I said, IF a refusal is to be issued, a reason for that refusal must be supplied.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3365086/A-cynical-cover-migrants-Whitehall-won-t-reveal-number-EU-workers-UK-unhelpful-Cameron-s-Brussels-negotiations.html

The true scale of mass migration has been covered up to try to keep Britain in Europe, it was claimed last night.

Officials have given out 1.9million national insurance numbers to EU citizens in four years – while logging only 751,000 arrivals.

The huge gap between the two figures means many more migrants might be living here than thought.

HMRC staff know how many of the NI numbers are active but are withholding the data because it would be ‘unhelpful’ to David Cameron’s EU renegotiation talks.

‘It’s vitally important the public are properly informed about a situation our country faces as we go into the referendum,’ he said. ‘We cannot control EU migration without leaving the EU.’

The national insurance number mismatch has been highlighted by Jonathan Portes, a former chief economist at the Cabinet Office.

Using the Freedom of Information Act, he asked HMRC to release data on active NI numbers – which would show how many migrants live here. ‘Astonishingly, HMRC have refused to give me this data,’ he said on his blog.

‘Not because they don’t have it, not even because it would be too much work.

If the Government is involved, as indeed it IS, with negotiations on immigrant freedoms with the EU, how would it help those negotiations to have opposing forces back home building a case which may restrict their latitude for discussion ? Those mounting those cases would inject their own biases into the mix at a crucial time, possibly skewing the proceedings. If such investigations were to be attempted, the better time to start would've been either some time BEFORE negotiation, or shortly AFTER, not DURING the process.

Additionally, consider: I fail to see how this involves ILLEGAL immigration, if what's involved is a comparison between numbers recording as arriving, and the numbers officially supplied with National Insurance numbers ! If they have NI numbers, then they're not 'off the grid'.

EU arrivals have freedom of movement within Nation States who are a part of the EU, guaranteed to them, if they come here to work. This means that requirements to record all arrivals would not be applicable on a 'you are crossing into our borders, so we must record you doing so' sense.

So I suggest that ALL of this misses the point. Cameron wants to negotiate ways to restrict that flow, and this is what he's there, in mainland Europe right now, to negotiate and to get an agreement on. That too many people are entering the UK is a 'given'.

http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=457

Free movement of workers is a fundamental principle of the Treaty enshrined in Article 45 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union and developed by EU secondary legislation and the Case law of the Court of Justice. EU citizens are entitled to:

look for a job in another EU country
work there without needing a work permit
reside there for that purpose
stay there even after employment has finished
enjoy equal treatment with nationals in access to employment, working conditions and all other social and tax advantages
EU nationals may also have certain types of health & social security coverage transferred to the country in which they go to seek work (see coordination of social security systems).

What is behind all of this is the UK's freedom to control its borders. The above 'rights', as I've posted them, show that little latitude exists to apply controls for EU work migrants. It's the establishment of control that's the real issue.