Gender change - when does it change? [Archive] - Debate Policy

jimnyc

01-08-2016, 06:59 AM

Just because someone wakes up on day and decides so, or when they go through with a sex change? If someone truly feels they were born with the wrong genitals, then why not get the change? (if u can afford it). Do you get to call yourself and use all of the facilities from day #1, just because you say you'll be going that route? Does it change the moment that person starts dressing as the opposite sex?

We have folks calling themselves women that still have something dangling between their legs. And we have folks calling themselves women that have went through a sex change operation.

I dunno, I have trouble being told I have to refer to a he, as a she, when he still looks like a man mostly, and still has the wiener down there tucked away.

Until the surgery is done and over, I refer to them as their born sexes.

Noir

01-08-2016, 07:45 AM

A - Transgender does not mean transsexual does not mean transvestite. These 3 different terms/meanings were used interchangeably in the OP, when they are not interchangeable.

B - How would you even be aware of someone has gone through such an operation unless you ask them?

jimnyc

01-08-2016, 07:56 AM

A - Transgender does not mean transsexual does not mean transvestite. These 3 different terms/meanings were used interchangeably in the OP, when they are not interchangeable.

I understand that.

B - How would you even be aware of someone has gone through such an operation unless you ask them?

When they state it publicly, or if allowed in an opposite bathroom or changing room, and you see their genitals that you were not expecting. Sure, if they want to keep such things to themselves, and not getting into areas where others may see them, then I couldn't care less. But if 'demanding', or others demanding, we call them the opposite sex, then they should BE the opposite sex, not just think as much.

This stemmed from the bruce jenner stuff, And yes, I'll call him a "he", as he IS a he for now, until he may take that next step. And yes, folks have been jumped on for still referring to him as a he in certain places. I've seen that in other situations too, where folks are beat down if they dare call one of these folks their REAL physical sex.

darin

01-08-2016, 08:15 AM

transexual, transgender, probably 'gay' are emotional/mental conditions that should be treated to bring the person to peace - not coddled nor enabled to meet the pt's immediate relative happiness.

Noir

01-08-2016, 08:39 AM

if allowed in an opposite bathroom or changing room, and you see their genitals that you were not expecting.

So this only relates to people whose genitals you may see?

jimnyc

01-08-2016, 08:58 AM

So this only relates to people whose genitals you may see?

Again, the folks I am speaking of are the folks that are in public, and folks demanding that we call them the opposite sexual terms. I don't need to see the genitals at that point. And then yes, it would also relate to those dropping their drawers in places where the opposite sex are. Or those out dressing and making it obvious that they are a tranny, to the point that something is "tucked".

And yet you didn't answer a single question in my opening post. And then state elsewhere that you don't reply as there are no questions. Cherry picking again?

Bottom line - your sex or whatever you want to call it - is determined by what your physical parts are. NO ONE should "have to" call someone a "he" or "she" - if the parts don't match. Why should I be scolded or similar if I still refer to "caitlyn jenner" as a MALE - since HE IS a male?

darin

01-08-2016, 09:17 AM

Again, the folks I am speaking of are the folks that are in public, and folks demanding that we call them the opposite sexual terms. I don't need to see the genitals at that point. And then yes, it would also relate to those dropping their drawers in places where the opposite sex are. Or those out dressing and making it obvious that they are a tranny, to the point that something is "tucked".

And yet you didn't answer a single question in my opening post. And then state elsewhere that you don't reply as there are no questions. Cherry picking again?

Bottom line - your sex or whatever you want to call it - is determined by what your physical parts are. NO ONE should "have to" call someone a "he" or "she" - if the parts don't match. Why should I be scolded or similar if I still refer to "caitlyn jenner" as a MALE - since HE IS a male?

Remember, our brains are part of the physical parts; we have male and female brains. And the brains aren't put into the wrong gender because the gender builds the brain. These urges or confusions are conditions brought on through external stimuli.

NightTrain

01-08-2016, 09:25 AM

jimnyc

01-08-2016, 09:35 AM

It doesn't change. You are what you were born with.

I don't care if Bruce gets 44 QQQs attached to his chest and gets upgraded aerodynamic genitals - he's still a dude wearing women's clothes.

Just a tranny, and I'm not talking 2-speed PowerGlide.

aerodynamic genitals? LOL

I'm trying in my head, to reverse that, and wonder what it would do for a REAL woman. Any advantage for me? :cool:

Noir

01-08-2016, 09:36 AM

Again, the folks I am speaking of are the folks that are in public, and folks demanding that we call them the opposite sexual terms. I don't need to see the genitals at that point. And then yes, it would also relate to those dropping their drawers in places where the opposite sex are. Or those out dressing and making it obvious that they are a tranny, to the point that something is "tucked".

And yet you didn't answer a single question in my opening post. And then state elsewhere that you don't reply as there are no questions. Cherry picking again?

Bottom line - your sex or whatever you want to call it - is determined by what your physical parts are. NO ONE should "have to" call someone a "he" or "she" - if the parts don't match. Why should I be scolded or similar if I still refer to "caitlyn jenner" as a MALE - since HE IS a male?

Your opening post, and subsequent questions are confused. Your thread title is about gender and being transgender, and you you describe your only validation and acceptance of being transgender is a sex change, yet you previously acknowledged that sex and gender (more specifically transsexual and transgender) are not the same.

jimnyc

01-08-2016, 09:53 AM

Your opening post, and subsequent questions are confused. Your thread title is about gender and being transgender, and you you describe your only validation and acceptance of being transgender is a sex change, yet you previously acknowledged that sex and gender (more specifically transsexual and transgender) are not the same.

Obfuscation.

Wiener and tater tots - you ARE a male, man, boy, whatever the hell you want to call/describe it.

I'll be kind speaking of female. But if you have female genitalia, you ARE a woman, girl, female, anything you want to call it, it's a SHE.

I don't care about the playing of words or descriptions. That's just ways of changing the debate, or changing the description of the person. The bottom line is that ALL folks come down to one of 2, male or female, and this is 100% decided, based on the genitalia you're born with.

Noir

01-08-2016, 10:01 AM

Obfuscation.

Wiener and tater tots - you ARE a male, man, boy, whatever the hell you want to call/describe it.

I'll be kind speaking of female. But if you have female genitalia, you ARE a woman, girl, female, anything you want to call it, it's a SHE.

I don't care about the playing of words or descriptions. That's just ways of changing the debate, or changing the description of the person. The bottom line is that ALL folks come down to one of 2, male or female, and this is 100% decided, based on the genitalia you're born with.

Your thread is about gender, but your post content is about sex.
You may call that a 'word game' etc, but the fact is they are different terms with different meanings, and in using the two interchanably you are confusing the conversation and then rejecting the clarification that your misuse of terms is causing the confusion.

jimnyc

01-08-2016, 10:08 AM

Your thread is about gender, but your post content is about sex.
You may call that a 'word game' etc, but the fact is they are different terms with different meanings, and in using the two interchanably you are confusing the conversation and then rejecting the clarification that your misuse of terms is causing the confusion.

It matters not. Even if someone says their "gender" is female - they are STILL a male, and a HE, if they have the parts. The same goes if someone says their gender is male, but they have female parts - they are still female and still a SHE.

And they shouldn't be able to use any facilities or similar unless their parts match the sign on the door.

And one can claim they were born some weird way and that 'inside' they are actually the opposite sex and therefore their gender is different. See a shrink for that. Until they get some sort of sex change, they are what parts they were born with. And quite frankly, if a man gets it lopped off, and then is now a "she", and grows fake boobs, my opinion is that he is still a male.

Imagine, although would be hard to believe, that a guy gets it lopped off and gets the "sex change" operation on a dare, or losing a bet. Same with him, still a guy, still a he. It doesn't change just because what you claim is in your head.

aboutime

01-08-2016, 03:47 PM

jimnyc

01-09-2016, 11:27 AM

I woke up today as a "neither" gender. Tomorrow I will be "non-binary". I would hope that you all respect my decisions and address me appropriately, or of course Noir will explain to you why you are being disrespectful to me. :)

Noir

01-09-2016, 12:03 PM

Noir. You call it a word game? Tell us what the word GENDER is talking about, or means???

In as best a sentence as I can put it - Gender is a form of identity, a construct of social being.

What gender is not - biological sex.

jimnyc

01-09-2016, 12:14 PM

In as best a sentence as I can put it - Gender is a form of identity, a construct of social being.

What gender is not - biological sex.

I'm just thrilled that there are 58 of these genders, and that so many others are understanding, that folks like myself can change to one and not have to worry about being questioned. I'm a rather "fluid" person this early afternoon. I'm hoping to have a female gender the next time I'm near a bathroom or locker room full of gals. So long as I don't make a spectacle, brag about it, or tell anyone at all - then they should at the very least honor my requests and feelings and allow me the use of such facilities. I mean, what are they going to do, test me? Imagine folks testing everyone that makes such a claim? That would be nuts! And even then, just because someone dresses weird, are we to believe them? We just may never know 100% for sure. :)

Perianne

01-09-2016, 12:46 PM

After maybe $75,000 dollars?

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8244&stc=1

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8245&stc=1

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8246&stc=1

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8247&stc=1

A transgender woman who has spent £52,000 on plastic surgery to enhance her looks has revealed that she refuses to stop until she has reached 'perfection'.

And her wife is fully supportive of her decision.

Fulvia Pellegrino has had more than 150 lip and cheekbone fillers, four breast implants, and two rounds of liposuction.

The 56-year-old, from Italy, has spent €12,000 (£9,000) on her bum and is planning even more surgery in her quest for the perfect face and body.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/transgender-woman-spends-52k-plastic-7125389

jimnyc

01-09-2016, 12:53 PM

aboutime

01-09-2016, 03:18 PM

Refuses to stop until "she" reaches perfection? WTF? First off, that IS NOT a "she". That is not anywhere near perfection. I'm convinced it went backwards without even seeing the before pictures. That is one of the most disgusting things I have ever seen in my life. :puke3::puke:

jim. I suspect "IT'S" interpretation of perfection would best be called PERFECTLY STUPID.:laugh:

I've seen latrines, and garbage cans with more sex appeal.:laugh:

Noir

01-09-2016, 03:48 PM

Folks spending their energies to be mean/rude to each other on here is understandable, if silly. Doing so to complete strangers is schoolyard stuff.

aboutime

01-09-2016, 03:55 PM

Folks spending their energies to

be mean/rude to each other on here is understandable, if silly. Doing so to complete strangers is schoolyard stuff.

So, you don't consider presenting a photo of yourself as a priest...schoolyard???:laugh:

jimnyc

01-09-2016, 03:59 PM

Folks spending their energies to be mean/rude to each other on here is understandable, if silly. Doing so to complete strangers is schoolyard stuff.

How do you think such pictures got onto the internet? Do you know of a lawsuit over stolen photos that I'm unaware of including this "person"? I'll bet 500-1 right now with you that somewhere out there this person placed the photos. Don't EVER place ANYTHING on the internet if you want it kept private, or if you don't want others to judge. And including a panties shot, and bra, and naked? You damn well bet that if you toss that crap out there that you will receive judgement based on them. Keep that shit to yourself if you don't want judgment. This beast has photos open to the public on facebook and many more places.

If someone wants to destroy their body by spending so much money on surgeries, then it's fair game and I'll respond based on what I see. Sorry if you find that offensive. :)

jimnyc

01-09-2016, 04:01 PM

So, you don't consider presenting a photo of yourself as a priest...schoolyard???:laugh:

Nailed it!! :clap::clap::clap:

jimnyc

01-09-2016, 04:02 PM

So, you don't consider presenting a photo of yourself as a priest...schoolyard???:laugh:

I repped you as well, which is very rare for me. I don't even thanks as much as others, but definitely less so the rep stuff. But deserving is deserving. :)

LongTermGuy

01-09-2016, 04:38 PM

Noir

01-09-2016, 05:47 PM

So, you don't consider presenting a photo of yourself as a priest...schoolyard???:laugh:

Poking fun at myself ≠ making derogatory comments about others but wut'eves'bruv enjoy your reps (:

jimnyc

01-09-2016, 06:17 PM

Poking fun at myself ≠ making derogatory comments about others but wut'eves'bruv enjoy your reps (:

SURE, you were making fun of yourself. Do you expect us to believe that tripe? After you go after christianity as much as you do? Sorry, nothing can convince me that it wasn't a poke at others, or the religion. To claim it's a joke towards yourself is hilariously stupid. You tried to condemn others for something you feel is beneath you, only to have someone else point out that you kinda do it with each and every post you make. I'd find a way to deny the photo as well if I just made an ooops like you just did.

And again, don't put yourself on the internet if you can't handle comments. If someone is paying a shitload of money claiming they are seeking "perfection", then they will hear comments. Tough shit if it doesn't like it.

Noir

01-09-2016, 06:24 PM

If you guys think my avatar is serious then you're taking yourselves way too seriously. But thats enough of a thread derail.

jimnyc

01-09-2016, 06:31 PM

If you guys think my avatar is serious then you're taking yourselves way too seriously. But thats enough of a thread derail.

I don't think it's serious at all, nor meant to be. I just think it's meant as a joke. And you don't care who it's disrespectful to. That only matters when it's time for YOU to point fingers at how others post.

In other words, you aren't perfect. Neither are we.

aboutime

01-09-2016, 07:17 PM

If you guys think my avatar is serious then you're taking yourselves way too seriously. But thats enough of a thread derail.

Noir. To possibly some, and to me. That photo falls into the same category as the disrespectful attempts publish a painting of CHRIST...with Human Feces as it's subject, or the Urination on Christian statues by the ignorant.

Noir

01-09-2016, 08:51 PM

Noir. To possibly some, and to me. That photo falls into the same category as the disrespectful attempts publish a painting of CHRIST...with Human Feces as it's subject, or the Urination on Christian statues by the ignorant. My heart bleeds, go join the line of muslims who whine about their hurt feels when some draws a picture of their pedophi prophet. Or better yet - laugh it off (:

Edit- I've completely forgotten what the prompt is for strike, but if its not that, S, Strikeout or SO then idk >,>

Little-Acorn

01-09-2016, 09:05 PM

A man cannot "become a woman" with these "gender-change" operations.

For example, Caitlyn Jenner is not a woman. He's a man who has undergone voluntary genital mutilation, and has picked up a drug habit (hormones).

He still has the X and Y chromosomes he was born with, in every cell in his body, which only men have. And he has a lifetime of experience being born as, and raised as, a male human.

He is no more a woman, than a Ford would become a Toyota if you took the "Ford" badge off the hood and put on a Toyota badge, and painted it a Toyota color.

aboutime

01-09-2016, 09:05 PM

My heart bleeds, go join the line of muslims who whine about their hurt feels when some draws a picture of their pedophi prophet. Or better yet - laugh it off (:

Edit- I've completely forgotten what the prompt is for strike, but if its not that, S, Strikeout or SO then idk >,>

Based on what you obviously feel, and enjoy telling all of us.
YOU should have dressed like that PEDO-Prophet for your avatar. That would be TRUTH in photo's, as "One picture is worth a Thousand words (in support of Terrorists)

Abbey Marie

01-10-2016, 01:06 AM

Methinks the "lady" still has a package. Perhaps somewhat shrunken, but a package just the same. There's just too much going on down there...

indago

01-10-2016, 04:44 AM

tailfins

01-10-2016, 09:36 AM

It doesn't change. You are what you were born with.

I don't care if Bruce gets 44 QQQs attached to his chest and gets upgraded aerodynamic genitals - he's still a dude wearing women's clothes.

Just a tranny, and I'm not talking 2-speed PowerGlide.

I don't get too interested in trannies until you mention a PowerGlide, hopefully cast iron. Aluminum just doesn't do it for me.

http://www.restorationhydramatics.com/images/finished_54_powerglide2.jpg

Abbey Marie

01-10-2016, 02:10 PM

Also, the butt looks kind of bruised.

:puke:

aboutime

01-10-2016, 09:12 PM

Methinks the "lady" still has a package. Perhaps somewhat shrunken, but a package just the same. There's just too much going on down there...

Also Abbey. That slutty thing seems to be the exact, dictionary example of the word "JUNK". It's beyond the word package. Packages usually come in nice wrappings. NO NICE THERE!:laugh::laugh::laugh:

fj1200

01-11-2016, 11:16 AM

I hope you people now understand why some posts should be edited. :eek:

:poke:

Drummond

01-11-2016, 11:41 AM

I hope you people now understand why some posts should be edited. :eek:

:poke:

... or even .. rewritten ? Do tell ..... :eek:

fj1200

01-11-2016, 01:55 PM

... or even .. rewritten ? Do tell ..... :eek:

Edited when dealing with internet pollution and rewritten when you're an idiot. Now that I think about it I guess both of those apply to you. :)

jimnyc

01-11-2016, 02:10 PM

Methinks the "lady" still has a package. Perhaps somewhat shrunken, but a package just the same. There's just too much going on down there...

Yes, he still has all of his original parts. He's went and hat a shitload of surgery to his lips and other features, and wants to think he's a woman, but he isn't. Especially when you have to hide your penis, and then put make up on.

Perianne

01-11-2016, 02:28 PM

And y'all might notice that "Caitlyn's" second thoughts about the matter have not resulted in nearly as many headlines. It is only perversions that matter to leftists.

Drummond

01-11-2016, 03:38 PM

Edited when dealing with internet pollution and rewritten when you're an idiot. Now that I think about it I guess both of those apply to you. :)

I'm an 'idiot' who deals in truth. You deal in the internet pollution of bogus bona fides.

Now, have you finished with your latest thread derail ?

aboutime

01-11-2016, 06:12 PM

I hope you people now understand why some posts should be edited. :eek:

:poke:

Agreed. Now, tell all of us how to EDIT your posts into oblivion. Feeling very sorry for your mental disorder.

fj1200

01-12-2016, 02:20 PM

I'm an 'idiot' who deals in truth. You deal in the internet pollution of bogus bona fides.

Now, have you finished with your latest thread derail ?

I took the opportunity to bold the only part you got right. I made a mere joke which is why you were confused. :)

aboutime

01-12-2016, 05:24 PM

I took the opportunity to bold the only part you got right. I made a mere joke which is why you were confused. :)

fj. Most All of us agree with YOUR bolded, self-description.

Gunny

01-20-2016, 10:30 PM

Again, the folks I am speaking of are the folks that are in public, and folks demanding that we call them the opposite sexual terms. I don't need to see the genitals at that point. And then yes, it would also relate to those dropping their drawers in places where the opposite sex are. Or those out dressing and making it obvious that they are a tranny, to the point that something is "tucked".

And yet you didn't answer a single question in my opening post. And then state elsewhere that you don't reply as there are no questions. Cherry picking again?

Bottom line - your sex or whatever you want to call it - is determined by what your physical parts are. NO ONE should "have to" call someone a "he" or "she" - if the parts don't match. Why should I be scolded or similar if I still refer to "caitlyn jenner" as a MALE - since HE IS a male?

I would say after you're dead and buried and your dick finally falls off.:laugh:

I just can't decide if they're fags or not so I cal 'em fags anyway. If you got a dick and want to suck one ... hey.

I found a solution to problem right here on the board though...

Gunny's Tranny Clinic :leather:

Drummond

01-21-2016, 06:20 AM

Drummond

01-21-2016, 06:24 AM

Agreed. Now, tell all of us how to EDIT your posts into oblivion. Feeling very sorry for your mental disorder.:clap::clap::clap:

Drummond

01-21-2016, 07:02 AM

In as best a sentence as I can put it - Gender is a form of identity, a construct of social being.

What gender is not - biological sex.

Succinctly - if also insanely !! - put.

Gender is a form of physical difference in human beings !! Female gender permits the female body to become capable of giving birth to children, for example (.. something a mutilated man or 'transgender' person can never hope to do).

If gender is 'a form of identity', then presumably, on the planet where that's 'true' (DEFINITELY NOT THIS ONE !!!) you could just choose to identify with the female sex, as a pure act of will, and hey presto, you're suddenly capable of producing babies as women do ??!?

Or, to take another case .. say you're at an airport (or any public place !), and you decide to use the public toilets. Can you say 'I feel like identifying with women today, so that in itself makes me a woman, so I'll go into the Ladies toilet instead' ??

As for your improbable phrase 'a construct of social being' ... a better single word might be 'invention'. Because that's what is going on .. an attempt to reinvent from a previous ORIGINAL physical state.

Just to nail the ludicrousness of all this .. there are male and female animals. They are what they are because they're PHYSICALLY what they are. Perhaps you somehow can .. but I for one can't imagine Fido, down the street, being (according to you) 'a construct of social being', deciding for himself that he has need of a sex change !!

Yet .. would you deny that Fido, who is (for arguments' sake) a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, is definably of a particular gender ??

Here's a picture of one, pleading - in LeftieWorld - for 'gender reassignment surgery' (you do believe me, don't you, Noir ..?) .....

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8276&stc=1

Noir

01-21-2016, 07:55 AM

Drummond, your post relates almost entirely to biological sex, and not gender. There are only so many ways i can say gender ≠ sex without repeating my self over every post.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

01-21-2016, 07:58 AM

When society at large stopped vilifying, and taking direct action against such vermin it was sure to come out and demand its legitimacy! And after that be in your face and laughing at you in your cowardice in not properly confronting it and thus keeping it in check as history has shown to be the correct path.
Hey, suddenly the teaching of 6 years olds about sex, gay sex etc becomes a new enlightened thing!
All because the ffing gays are not told and forced to keep their perversion in the bedroom and out of public viewing.
The old laws against homosexuality should be enforced.
Nobody is born gay.. A fact .-Tyr

Drummond

01-21-2016, 08:37 AM

Drummond, your post relates almost entirely to biological sex, and not gender. There are only so many ways i can say gender ≠ sex without repeating my self over every post.

Then, to be blunt, I suggest that you post something sensible !

If I say I am male, I refer to my gender. I don't commit myself to a statement about myself describing biological sex. That said, the one, biologically speaking, is relevant to the other. You're Leftily trying to see some measure of division between the two where none exists.

If gender is a mere 'construct of social being', as you claim, then describing a woman as one makes NO statement about the unique role of the female of the species to give birth. Yet, on Planet REALITY, it DOES.

How many maternity wards have you ever visited, Noir, where 50% of the beds are occupied by men ?? Or, where 50% of them IDENTIFY as 'male' ... ?

Noir, your viewpoint - putting it as kindly as I can - is 'fanciful'. It does NOT meet reality !

Putting it less kindly .. it's Leftily nuts. I don't care about invention, or whim, nor yet the mental illness involved .. reality is what matters, and here, it determines what is or is not 'male' or 'female'.

[Would you care to comment about Staffordshire Bull Terriers who, conscious of their 'social being', feel that any attempt to deny them gender reassignment surgery is an infringement of their basic rights ? Have you ever been on a protest march about it .. ?]

Noir

01-21-2016, 09:16 AM

Then, to be blunt, I suggest that you post something sensible !

If I say I am male, I refer to my gender. I don't commit myself to a statement about myself describing biological sex.

So you literally just refuse to accept that the word "male" denotes sex? Do you have access to a dictionary?

Drummond

01-21-2016, 10:13 AM

So you literally just refuse to accept that the word "male" denotes sex? Do you have access to a dictionary?

Now you're just playing word games.

I stand by what I've posted. You are invited, if you can, to refute my comments.

For example, can you claim to have visited a maternity ward where a substantial proportion of those taking up beds are actually male ?

Or, could it be that there's something .. truly .. distinctively, uniquely, BIOLOGICAL about being female ??

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

01-21-2016, 10:15 AM

So you literally just refuse to accept that the word "male" denotes sex?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ TO GAY MEN IT DOES, AS ANY HAIRY ASS WILL DO.
Could be why you think as you do, if it is then too bad for you. -Tyr

Gunny

01-21-2016, 12:12 PM

Good god.

After nothing less than a miracle ...:puke3::puke3:

I should neg whoever posted this. Now I have to go find some brain bleach.

Gunny

01-21-2016, 12:14 PM

So you literally just refuse to accept that the word "male" denotes sex? Do you have access to a dictionary?

Do you even speak English? the term "male" denotes GENDER and is used as an identifier to differentiate between the two genders of the species homo sapien.

"Sex" is a(n) act(s).

jimnyc

01-21-2016, 05:59 PM

pete311

01-21-2016, 07:02 PM

For generations and generations you would see on every form, and really everything - "Gender - Male or Female" and you'd have an option of which one to choose. Now we have to coddle folks with issues, and whatever they can dream up in their heads. Seriously, 58 different retarded terms for weird gender crap. And yet NONE of them have anything more than a penis or vagina when you boil it all down. The rest is their fucked up heads thinking they are something that they are not. Come up with all the terms in the world, but everyone is still male or female.

The brain is the source of identity, not a mechanical part. I don't see why it's so hard to believe that a person can be born with a brain that has some female wiring and vice versa. I think intolerance is much more of a "fucked up" in your head problem. Lucky you were apparently born within the narrow constraints of what is socially acceptable (changing and nothing you can do about it). You lack empathy and perspective because of it.

aboutime

01-21-2016, 07:08 PM

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ TO GAY MEN IT DOES, AS ANY HAIRY ASS WILL DO.
Could be why you think as you do, if it is then too bad for you. -Tyr

Tyr. Just consider the source with Noir. He probably has the word "MALE" on his "MAIL BOX". Or, because of his foreign Red-neck-ery!

jimnyc

01-21-2016, 07:27 PM

The brain is the source of identity, not a mechanical part. I don't see why it's so hard to believe that a person can be born with a brain that has some female wiring and vice versa. I think intolerance is much more of a "fucked up" in your head problem. Lucky you were apparently born within the narrow constraints of what is socially acceptable (changing and nothing you can do about it). You lack empathy and perspective because of it.

A whole bunch more of horseshit. The intolerance from the retards on the left is a thing of legend. Only the ninnies demand tolerance of anything and everything, no matter how absurd, no matter how perverted - but then will wish death upon a righty who may simply disagree. You and your ilk are a vomit inducing bunch.

Bottom line, we are all born into this world as a male or a female. No person with mental issues should be able to say "I identify as a female" when they have a penis, and demand to use female facilities (or the same for every other identification). Deal with reality and how you were born, and see your shrink for the other issues. But the rest of society shouldn't have to bend over backwards or deal with weird bathroom issues as a result of how these folks "feel".

jimnyc

01-21-2016, 07:30 PM

Tyr. Just consider the source with Noir. He probably has the word "MALE" on his "MAIL BOX". Or, because of his foreign Red-neck-ery!

I don't know about all that... but I do notice his girlfriend is not his girlfriend, but his "partner". Whenever I was with a gal long term, she was my girlfriend. And now, it's married. I've only seen 'partner' used between same sex couples, and others that support this whole gender stuff, and sexism and other BS, and feel it's more proper to use partner than a demeaning term as girlfriend. I am only wondering aloud as I truly have no idea. But anyone who thinks a man, who is born with a penis, is aok to also be a female, is a little odd. :)

Black Diamond

01-21-2016, 08:02 PM

While my wife is significant , she is not an "other".

aboutime

01-21-2016, 08:02 PM

I don't know about all that... but I do notice his girlfriend is not his girlfriend, but his "partner". Whenever I was with a gal long term, she was my girlfriend. And now, it's married. I've only seen 'partner' used between same sex couples, and others that support this whole gender stuff, and sexism and other BS, and feel it's more proper to use partner than a demeaning term as girlfriend. I am only wondering aloud as I truly have no idea. But anyone who thinks a man, who is born with a penis, is aok to also be a female, is a little odd. :)

Jim. My wife and I. Soon to be married for 47 years, have never considered ourselves partners. She's always been my Wife, and Best Friend. Not many people who can only call their (pc) Significant Other as partner are willing to use anything else. They Seem afraid to identify them as anything else. That says much about their real (I believe) Temporary Feelings.

pete311

01-21-2016, 08:20 PM

No person with mental issues should be able to say "I identify as a female" when they have a penis

Oh yes sire, because you say so :clap:

They have no more mental issue than you do. More like they have a penis issue. Not everyone can afford the tens of thousands of dollars the surgery costs.

pete311

01-21-2016, 08:24 PM

Bottom line, we are all born into this world as a male or a female. \

Only in your cro magnon black and white brain. Ever hear of a hermaphrodite?

jimnyc

01-21-2016, 08:59 PM

Oh yes sire, because you say so :clap:

They have no more mental issue than you do. More like they have a penis issue. Not everyone can afford the tens of thousands of dollars the surgery costs.

Only in your cro magnon black and white brain. Ever hear of a hermaphrodite?

Their mental issues will remain their own issues. But those issues don't get to interfere with others. If some weirdo born with a penis seems to think he is a female - no fucking way he gets to use the women's facilities. His rights to be whatever it is he thinks he is, they stop at the doors reserved for "men" or "women". No way in hell I need to bend over backwards or cater to them in the slightest bit, just because they think they were somehow born wrong.

Only in your pathetic limp wristed brain is this type of stuff "normal".

pete311

01-21-2016, 09:13 PM

Their mental issues will remain their own issues. But those issues don't get to interfere with others. If some weirdo born with a penis seems to think he is a female - no fucking way he gets to use the women's facilities. His rights to be whatever it is he thinks he is, they stop at the doors reserved for "men" or "women". No way in hell I need to bend over backwards or cater to them in the slightest bit, just because they think they were somehow born wrong.

Only in your pathetic limp wristed brain is this type of stuff "normal".

Congratulations, you'd fit right in with Nazi Germany. Too bad you're 70 years too late.

Somehow you are the authority for normal. You are not normal to me. Into the oven!

They don't have mental issues, no more than you. Their brain is normal, the parts are just not in sync.

No doubt the debate will rage and there are no easy answers on how to proceed, but your hardliner fascist intolerance is not a solution.

Abbey Marie

01-21-2016, 09:19 PM

This may be a record for playing the "You're a Nazi" card.

:eek:

Black Diamond

01-21-2016, 09:22 PM

:popcorn:

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

01-21-2016, 09:31 PM

Congratulations, you'd fit right in with Nazi Germany. Too bad you're 70 years too late.

Somehow you are the authority for normal. You are not normal to me. Into the oven!

They don't have mental issues, no more than you. Their brain is normal, the parts are just not in sync.

No doubt the debate will rage and there are no easy answers on how to proceed, but your hardliner fascist intolerance is not a solution.

I suspect you would since you prefer to defend evil. Jim only defended common decency and you find him to be a Nazi for doing that!
PRETTY DAMN OBVIOUS TO ME THAT YOU ARE ONE FFKKED UP MONKEY.
And could even be a gay-boy pervert yourself. :laugh:
Your so-called tolerance only extends to depravity but not to right-wing morals/ Christian morals.
And thats exactly how the worthless , slime ridden libs/leftists play the game.-Tyr

Noir

01-21-2016, 09:39 PM

I've only seen 'partner' used between same sex couples, and others...

I find that odd, i assume you have friends/colleagues in there 30/40/50s etc who are not married/engaged - they refer to their partners as boyfriend/girlfriend?

That says much about their real (I believe) Temporary Feelings.

You assume much.

pete311

01-21-2016, 09:42 PM

Jim only defended common decency

That's exactly what the Nazi's argued

pete311

01-21-2016, 09:43 PM

I find that odd, i assume you have friends/colleagues in there 30/40/50s etc who are not married/engaged - they refer to their partners as boyfriend/girlfriend?
.

The term boyfriend/girlfriend is very juvenile. After 40 you should be a partner.

aboutime

01-21-2016, 09:44 PM

Only in your cro magnon black and white brain. Ever hear of a hermaphrodite?

pete311. You sound as if you are defending....personally here. Should we suspect you are?

her·maph·ro·dite
hərˈmafrədīt/Submit
noun
1.
a person or animal having both male and female sex organs or other sexual characteristics, either abnormally or (in the case of some organisms) as the natural condition.

Tranny's, as they are often referred to...ONLY become such, when operations are performed. Which one have you had?:laugh:

pete311

01-21-2016, 09:47 PM

Which one have you had?:laugh:

Ask your mom

aboutime

01-21-2016, 09:56 PM

Ask your mom

Thanks for that. How totally expected, and immature of you to say that. At least I knew who my mom was, before she passed away.

pete311

01-21-2016, 09:59 PM

Thanks for that. How totally expected, and immature of you to say that.

Don't be a hypocrite. Speak to me like an adult in the first place and I'll return the favor.

jimnyc

01-21-2016, 10:01 PM

jimnyc

01-21-2016, 10:04 PM

I find that odd, i assume you have friends/colleagues in there 30/40/50s etc who are not married/engaged - they refer to their partners as boyfriend/girlfriend?

That's correct, young or middle aged, they refer to the one they are with as boyfriend and girlfriend. Are you saying that young and middle aged, that over there everyone refers to the one they are with as their 'partner'? That this is perhaps a regional thing? If so, you have my apology. I thought the boyfriend/girlfriend thing was worldwide, and not age specific.

jimnyc

01-21-2016, 10:07 PM

The term boyfriend/girlfriend is very juvenile. After 40 you should be a partner.

"a male friend. A male lover"

And that's somehow age specific to you, or juvenile? The bulb is on its way out, I heard them CFL's last longer.

jimnyc

01-21-2016, 10:10 PM

Ask your mom

Talking about someone's Mom? What a low class piece of shit. Not surprising, quite frankly, just confirmed of what was suspected.

Noir

01-21-2016, 10:20 PM

That's correct, young or middle aged, they refer to the one they are with as boyfriend and girlfriend. Are you saying that young and middle aged, that over there everyone refers to the one they are with as their 'partner'? That this is perhaps a regional thing? If so, you have my apology. I thought the boyfriend/girlfriend thing was worldwide, and not age specific.

No one finds it weird that they're calling a 40 year old man "boy"? I understand it for teens, and that can carry over into 20s fair enough, but at some point calling them boy/girl gets weird, and things like 'womanfriend' and 'manfriend' are just as weird.

pete311

01-21-2016, 10:41 PM

Talking about someone's Mom? What a low class piece of shit. Not surprising, quite frankly, just confirmed of what was suspected.
oh I see, someone talks shit to me and I can't give it back. cowards.

indago

01-21-2016, 11:44 PM

They don't have mental issues, no more than you. Their brain is normal, the parts are just not in sync.

You've got that backwards: their brain is not in sync with their body parts. They should be seen by a hypnotherapist who would delve deep into their subconscious to find out why they think that way, the goal being to bring them back to normalcy.

pete311

01-22-2016, 12:45 AM

You've got that backwards: their brain is not in sync with their body parts. They should be seen by a hypnotherapist who would delve deep into their subconscious to find out why they think that way, the goal being to bring them back to normalcy.

Could a hypnotherapist turn you to into the opposite sex? This is not some subconscious personality issue. It's how their brain is wired. You can't see a therapist for that. Furthermore maybe they like who they are. It's society that makes them fit a triangle into a square hole.

Drummond

01-22-2016, 06:50 AM

That's exactly what the Nazi's argued

Their problem was, simply, that they were lying.

But this is typical of the Left. Chip away at standards .. rewrite them, rewrite thinking to conform to the Leftie way. Pete, Fascism has Left-wing roots. Go far enough Left, and one sees fascistic tendencies emerge .. one must always be in lockstep with 'preferred' thinking. Such as yours, for example.

As for 'born male v born female' ... it is biologically even more fundamental than whether a person is born 'with the right bits'. How about at chromosonal level ?? Isn't the male chromosome makeup different from female ? Males and females, Pete, are what they are, right down to the cellular level !

No amount of dogmatic insistence from you changes that fact ... sorry .....

indago

01-22-2016, 09:15 AM

Could a hypnotherapist turn you to into the opposite sex? This is not some subconscious personality issue. It's how their brain is wired. You can't see a therapist for that. Furthermore maybe they like who they are. It's society that makes them fit a triangle into a square hole.

Asylums are filled with people who think that they are something that they are not...

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

01-22-2016, 10:44 AM

That's exactly what the Nazi's argued

Bullshit... They argued that the Aryan race was superior , the Jew inferior etc. and not a damn thing about sexual perversion!
Being gay is having sexual intercourse with members of ones on gender.
I see why you do not post often as you can not tell the difference between two such things as that.
Here just for you to get educated a bit.. -Tyr

Nazism and race

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Nazism developed several hypotheses concerning race. The Nazis claimed to scientifically measure a strict hierarchy of human race; the "master race" was said to be the most pure stock of the Aryan race, which was narrowly defined by the Nazis as being identical with the Nordic race, followed by other sub-races of the Aryan race.
At the bottom of this hierarchy were "parasitic" races (of non-"Aryan" origin) or "Untermenschen" ("sub-humans"), which were perceived to be dangerous to society. In Nazi literature, the term 'Untermensch' was applied to the Slavs, including Russians, Serbs, and ethnic Poles.[1] Nazi ideology viewed Slavs as an inferior non-Aryan group, who were fit only for extermination and enslavement.[2] About two million non-Jewish Poles were killed by Nazi Germany.[3][4] After the Slavs, lowest of all in the Nazi racial policy were Gypsies and Jews, who were both eventually deemed to be "Lebensunwertes Leben" ("Life unworthy of life") and to be exterminated during the Holocaust (see Raul Hilberg's description of the various phases of the Holocaust).[5] Hitler did have people of Jewish ancestry working for him. Coined as Mischling (or 'part-Jews'), they were often employed in the Wehrmacht, although they were not allowed to be soldiers after 1940. One historian, Bryan Mark Rigg has concluded that approximately 150,000 people of Jewish ancestry served in the German military during World War II.[6] One Mischling, Werner Goldberg, was even called "The Ideal German Soldier" by German newspapers.[7]

They were all about race purity, its superiority (master race) etc. and none of us have argued a damn whit about that in regards to gays. Your little buddy fj brought in blacks and racism .
Perhaps you need to have a chat with him idjit.
Homosexuality is not a "race". You damn leftist idiots do this same thing with the muslim issue as they try to identify muslims a race, when its a damn cult/religion ideology. -Tyr

pete311

01-22-2016, 10:57 AM

As for 'born male v born female' ... it is biologically even more fundamental than whether a person is born 'with the right bits'. How about at chromosonal level ?? Isn't the male chromosome makeup different from female ? Males and females, Pete, are what they are, right down to the cellular level !

No amount of dogmatic insistence from you changes that fact ... sorry .....

It may not be so clear
http://www.isna.org/faq/y_chromosome

But regardless, what are the kids supposed to do? There brains are hard wired a different way. There is no surgery or hypnotherapist to change that.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

01-22-2016, 11:01 AM

Their problem was, simply, that they were lying.

But this is typical of the Left. Chip away at standards .. rewrite them, rewrite thinking to conform to the Leftie way. Pete, Fascism has Left-wing roots. Go far enough Left, and one sees fascistic tendencies emerge .. one must always be in lockstep with 'preferred' thinking. Such as yours, for example.

As for 'born male v born female' ... it is biologically even more fundamental than whether a person is born 'with the right bits'. How about at chromosonal level ?? Isn't the male chromosome makeup different from female ? Males and females, Pete, are what they are, right down to the cellular level !

No amount of dogmatic insistence from you changes that fact ... sorry .....

He tried the same tactic as did fj when he brought in about blacks etc.
Being a damn homo is not about race.....
They like to bring in race so as to try to identify it as a civil right. Which is Utter Bullshit.. -Tyr

pete311

01-22-2016, 11:02 AM

Asylums are filled with people who think that they are something that they are not...

Oh really, what asylums still exist in the US? There is a reason they don't exist. They are inhumane and medieval just like you.

pete311

01-22-2016, 11:08 AM

Bullshit... They argued that the Aryan race was superior , the Jew inferior etc. and not a damn thing about sexual perversion!

They were all about race purity, its superiority (master race) etc. and none of us have argued a damn whit about that in regards to gays.

Wrong
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_homosexuals_in_Nazi_Germany_and_the _Holocaust

And you are indeed blind to your fascist intolerance. This forum does nothing but vilify people different than you. The founding fathers would be disgusted with you.

Gunny

01-22-2016, 11:16 AM

The brain is the source of identity, not a mechanical part. I don't see why it's so hard to believe that a person can be born with a brain that has some female wiring and vice versa. I think intolerance is much more of a "fucked up" in your head problem. Lucky you were apparently born within the narrow constraints of what is socially acceptable (changing and nothing you can do about it). You lack empathy and perspective because of it.

Your proof? Oh yeah, there is none. I'll agree it comes from the brain of people who for whatever reason cannot thing rationally nor logically, but there i ZERO evidence there is any hardwiring involved beyond THAT. Gee, I think I'm Superman and immortal. Think I'll find a tall building and test that theory. :rolleyes:

Just another product of an overly-self-indulgent society forcing what isn't normal on the majority so somebody's little feelings don't get hurt.

pete311

01-22-2016, 11:22 AM

Your proof? Oh yeah, there is none. I'll agree it comes from the brain of people who for whatever reason cannot thing rationally nor logically, but there i ZERO evidence there is any hardwiring involved beyond THAT. Gee, I think I'm Superman and immortal. Think I'll find a tall building and test that theory. :rolleyes:

Do you even try to research or does your fascist intolerance forbid it?

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan/
http://cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/09/12/cercor.bhu194.full

pete311

01-22-2016, 11:23 AM

Just another product of an overly-self-indulgent society forcing what isn't normal on the majority so somebody's little feelings don't get hurt.

Guess what, the majority is changing on many issues or we wouldn't be having these debates. Soon you will be the minority and that scares you.

pete311

01-22-2016, 11:25 AM

I'll agree it comes from the brain of people who for whatever reason cannot thing rationally nor logically

Personally I don't think you can think rationally or logically. Let's put you in an asylum.

Gunny

01-22-2016, 11:45 AM

Personally I don't think you can think rationally or logically. Let's put you in an asylum.

Ah. No response to the factual and logical statement, huh? Just some lame insult. I think you've proven who can actually address a topic and who can't. Good job.:laugh:

pete311

01-22-2016, 12:12 PM

Ah. No response to the factual and logical statement, huh? Just some lame insult. I think you've proven who can actually address a topic and who can't. Good job.:laugh:

Look further up than the last post

Gunny

01-22-2016, 12:35 PM

Guess what, the majority is changing on many issues or we wouldn't be having these debates. Soon you will be the minority and that scares you.

Look further up than the last post

Didn't know you were working on your post count.

The majority changing on issues has nothing to do with how a brain is wired. And as far as the majority changing goes .... they did the same in Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome, Mussolini's Italy, Hitler's Germany, Franco's Spain and you know what they all have in common? They all fell because people quit thinking for themselves and let the loser minorities make immoral laws at the expense of those of us that can still think.

NightTrain

01-22-2016, 12:55 PM

:laugh:

Is your ass hurting yet, Petey?

Look at it this way : it's a warmup for when your boyfriend gets home.

pete311

01-22-2016, 01:04 PM

:laugh:

Is your ass hurting yet, Petey?

Look at it this way : it's a warmup for when your boyfriend gets home.

Cool story bro :lame2:

jimnyc

01-22-2016, 01:10 PM

oh I see, someone talks shit to me and I can't give it back. cowards.

Point me towards where he spoke shit about a family member of yours that is not here.

But he didn't, did he? And he, or myself, are cowards for not wanting you to talk shit about family members? Again, you're a low class piece of garbage, not worth even debating topics with once you start in with "Mom" stuff. The only coward is you, who easily says things online, that they wouldn't say to others in person.

pete311

01-22-2016, 01:22 PM

Point me towards where he spoke shit about a family member of yours that is not here.

But he didn't, did he? And he, or myself, are cowards for not wanting you to talk shit about family members? Again, you're a low class piece of garbage, not worth even debating topics with once you start in with "Mom" stuff. The only coward is you, who easily says things online, that they wouldn't say to others in person.

Jim you're a total hypocrite. He attacked me, I attacked back. End of story, don't split hairs.

Gunny

01-22-2016, 01:28 PM

Jim you're a total hypocrite. He attacked me, I attacked back. End of story, don't split hairs.

Attacking you does not make it okay to attack a family member. Your argument is apples and oranges. That's NEVER been allowed here, and I never allowed it when I ran a board.

pete311

01-22-2016, 01:29 PM

pete311

01-22-2016, 01:30 PM

Attacking you does not make it okay to attack a family member. Your argument is apples and oranges. That's NEVER been allowed here, and I never allowed it when I ran a board.

oh right the clique makes the rules. Where are these rules stated? Please tell me where these rules of attacking are located?

pete311

01-22-2016, 01:31 PM

Attacking you does not make it okay to attack a family member. Your argument is apples and oranges. That's NEVER been allowed here, and I never allowed it when I ran a board.

you know what solves this problem, just don't attack in the first place, duh, this place would be a lot more productive without the waste of time attacks when you clearly ran out of anything intelligent to say

pete311

01-22-2016, 01:34 PM

Attacking you does not make it okay to attack a family member.

Your morals are so fucked. You want to throw people in asylums, discriminate and deny rights to human beings, but joke attacking someones mom. Oh no, that is too far. We can't have that.

Gunny

01-22-2016, 01:38 PM

oh right the clique makes the rules. Where are these rules stated? Please tell me where these rules of attacking are located?

Probably up at the top in a subforum called "Rules"? You know, those rules you had to agree to to join?

And there is no clique making up rules. They're the same rules Jim's had on both his boards for the last 14 years. Most of us just don't need to worry about it until someone like you comes along that can't differentiate between attacking you and attacking your family.

You're a closed-minded, condescending asshole that thinks he's smarter than everyone else and above the rules. Must be a Democrat.

jimnyc

01-22-2016, 01:38 PM

oh right the clique makes the rules. Where are these rules stated? Please tell me where these rules of attacking are located?

Have you bothered to ever read the rules here? Talking shit about family members has never been allowed. Not surprising that you would think it's cool though, and then argue to defend your words towards a woman who has since passed, not even an apology for your mistake.

Like I said, garbage.

aboutime

01-22-2016, 01:46 PM

Have you bothered to ever read the rules here? Talking shit about family members has never been allowed. Not surprising that you would think it's cool though, and then argue to defend your words towards a woman who has since passed, not even an apology for your mistake.

Like I said, garbage.

Jim. Seems we must remember, when children who think they KNOW IT ALL come here. They need to be monitored, and reminded...THEY AIN'T THAT SMART!

fj1200

01-22-2016, 01:56 PM

Being a damn homo is not about race.....

:whew: Good thing no one made that argument.

jimnyc

01-22-2016, 02:27 PM

Jim you're a total hypocrite. He attacked me, I attacked back. End of story, don't split hairs.

No, I'm not. The no family attack crap has been around since 2003, and no one has been allowed to abuse that.

jimnyc

01-22-2016, 02:29 PM

oh right the clique makes the rules. Where are these rules stated? Please tell me where these rules of attacking are located?

Was this portion of the rules not abundantly clear enough for you?

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?3487-Debate-Policy-Rules

There will be no flaming of another members family, whether directly or indirectly. This applies to all sections of the board, private messages and reputation comments. If the family member is not here to defend themselves, then they should not be attacked in any manner. Even if a member discusses their own family, they remain off limits.

jimnyc

01-22-2016, 02:38 PM

Jim. Seems we must remember, when children who think they KNOW IT ALL come here. They need to be monitored, and reminded...THEY AIN'T THAT SMART!

I don't even care if someone thinks they know it all. Hell, sometimes I'm that prick of a guy! :) I can deal with that and debate with that, all in good fun.

But once it ventures into "mom" being tossed out there as if it's funny. My Mom passed 5 years ago and it feels like yesterday. I won't take kindly to someone using her as a means to troll. And I'll defend anyone else that has it done to them, even Pete.

A simple "sorry bro, didn't realize, that was dumb of me" would have been acceptable and all forgotten. But instead, one defends and argues those actions. Points fingers at ME, as if I'm a hypocrite and allow others to act as such. Yes, attack Pete, Pete attack back - I have no issue with that so long as it doesn't get out of hand. But attack folks that aren't here just trying to piss someone off? That's lame.

Abbey Marie

01-22-2016, 02:59 PM

This is the total bullshit of this forum. Flip this scenario around and I guarantee my joke attack gets 15 thanks and high fives. Someone can joke about my sexuality but no I can't joke about their mom in response. Oh that was too far. That is high school clique horseshit.

Simply not true, Pete. We have very few rules here, but as an Admin I can tell you that we take the family member one very seriously. Perhaps you should have read the rules before posting.

jimnyc

01-22-2016, 03:11 PM

Simply not true, Pete. We have very few rules here, but as an Admin I can tell you that we take the family member one very seriously. Perhaps you should have read the rules before posting.

In addition, I might add, no action was taken. I simply made my feelings known about what he said, and reiterated the rules. It did seem as if he was unaware, as if one needs a reason not to talk about others Moms. And someone was just saying how calling someone a boyfriend, or girlfriend, as an adult, was "juvenile". So that's juvenile, but tossing out jokes about other folks mothers is to be accepted?

Hopefully that'll be the end of it.