Pope says Trump "is not a Christian"

[gabosaurus]

And he is right. Trump is closer to the Antichrist. He has no Christian morals or values.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/18/donald-trump-pope-francis-christian-wall-mexico-border

[Gunny]

And he is right. Trump is closer to the Antichrist. He has no Christian morals or values.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/18/donald-trump-pope-francis-christian-wall-mexico-border

Already a thread on this one. Look at the Dennis Miller thread.

[gabosaurus]

How am I supposed to know what is being discussed in a thread about Dennis Miller? I don't have time to read all the threads on this board. :slap:

[NightTrain]

And he is right. Trump is closer to the Antichrist. He has no Christian morals or values.


That's rich.

[Abbey Marie]

How am I supposed to know what is being discussed in a thread about Dennis Miller? I don't have time to read all the threads on this board. :slap:


You mean you don't read my threads? :eek:

[gabosaurus]

I don't like Dennis Miller! :death:

[Gunny]

I don't like Dennis Miller! :death:

That figures.

[gabosaurus]

There's nothing worse than a bad excuse for a comedian.

[Abbey Marie]

I don't like Dennis Miller! :death:

Politics aside, the man is brilliant, and as quick-witted as they come.

[jimnyc]

I don't go to my elected officials for religious advice, I won't be going to the pope for political advice. And if it's not Christian to want to build a wall, then I guess MANY of our politicians deserve some scorn, including others running for president who talk of "securing the border". Is there much of a difference between securing the border and not letting people in, and building a wall and not letting people in? Not letting in is not letting in - and has NOTHING to do with religion whatsoever.

[Perianne]

And again, the Vatican has a wall around it.

[jimnyc]

And again, the Vatican has a wall around it.

Yups. Maybe they should "tear that wall down" and invite in some of the refugees - you know, lead by example.

[glockmail]

And he is right. Trump is closer to the Antichrist. He has no Christian morals or values.

This is from an abortion lover?

[Black Diamond]

And he is right. Trump is closer to the Antichrist. He has no Christian morals or values.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/18/donald-trump-pope-francis-christian-wall-mexico-border
So trump will win in 2016.

[jimnyc]

This is from an abortion lover?

Crazy, ain't it? And she'll be bragging about a criminal, or the guy who likes to talk about kids in his daydreaming and writing of porn.

And considering the things she has stated over the years about the pope, christians and religion all together - I find it humorous to see her now using him and his words to go after Trump, and talking about morals and christian values. I believe she even hinted once that the pope was a child molester. Maybe that was the last pope? Either way, she has NO respect for the pope and the vatican, never has.

[Black Diamond]

So the pope is, indeed, a political figure.

[revelarts]

...."Flying back to Rome from a trip to Mexico (http://www.theguardian.com/world/mexico), the pope said: “A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian.”hmm
How about the Pope changing the a few words there....

“A person who thinks only about the animals, wherever they may be, and not protecting humans, is not Christian.”

“A person who thinks only about protecting Atheist and Muslims legal rights, wherever they may be, and not protecting Christians, is not Christian.”

“A person who thinks only about keeping abortion legal, wherever it may be, and not protecting the unborn , is not Christian.”

“A person who thinks only about making homosexual marriage legal, wherever it may be, and not promoting God's clear standard , is not Christian.”

“A person who thinks only about questioning whether Jesus is the only way to God, wherever they may be, and doesn't proclaim it, is not Christian.”

[gabosaurus]

If you don't love and respect ALL people, you are not a Christian.
If all you think about is seeing certain people killed or mutilated, you are not a Christian.
If you hate someone just because they have different views, you are not a Christian.

Looking at posts on this board, there are damn few real Christians.
You can go to church regularly, give generously, quote scripture and pontificate all you want. But unless you understand and follow the teaching of Jesus, you are NOT a Christian.

[jimnyc]

If you don't love and respect ALL people, you are not a Christian.
If all you think about is seeing certain people killed or mutilated, you are not a Christian.
If you hate someone just because they have different views, you are not a Christian.

Looking at posts on this board, there are damn few real Christians.
You can go to church regularly, give generously, quote scripture and pontificate all you want. But unless you understand and follow the teaching of Jesus, you are NOT a Christian.

All I learned FOR SURE from your writing is that you are not a christian.

[Abbey Marie]

If Christians are held to such incredibly high standards, why are Christian symbols so hated as to be removed from sight? Shouldn't people be embracing those symbols of such a great-hearted religion?

[gabosaurus]

If Christians are held to such incredibly high standards, why are Christian symbols so hated as to be removed from sight? Shouldn't people be embracing those symbols of such a great-hearted religion?

They should be. But there is a separation of church and state. You have the right to not believe. You have no right to deny or remove the rights of others.
I love and respect all of my neighbors, regardless of their race, ethnic origin or choice of religions. Or their right to not be religious.
To think otherwise is a sin. And you know where sinners end up. :dev3:

[Abbey Marie]

They should be. But there is a separation of church and state. You have the right to not believe. You have no right to deny or remove the rights of others.
I love and respect all of my neighbors, regardless of their race, ethnic origin or choice of religions. Or their right to not be religious.
To think otherwise is a sin. And you know where sinners end up. :dev3:


Yes, I understand the 1st Amendment. But if you really take a good look at it all, there are segments of our society that hate Christianity. They are not content to see the 1st Amendment respected; they want every vestige of Christianity wiped from the face of the nation. Just take a gander at Gnostic Bishop's latest vomit, if you want an example.

[glockmail]

Crazy, ain't it? And she'll be bragging about a criminal, or the guy who likes to talk about kids in his daydreaming and writing of porn.

And considering the things she has stated over the years about the pope, christians and religion all together - I find it humorous to see her now using him and his words to go after Trump, and talking about morals and christian values. I believe she even hinted once that the pope was a child molester. Maybe that was the last pope? Either way, she has NO respect for the pope and the vatican, never has.

She's a piece of crap, steaming on the sidewalk in August.

[revelarts]

If you don't love and respect ALL people, you are not a Christian.
If all you think about is seeing certain people killed or mutilated, you are not a Christian.
If you hate someone just because they have different views, you are not a Christian.

Looking at posts on this board, there are damn few real Christians.
You can go to church regularly, give generously, quote scripture and pontificate all you want. But unless you understand and follow the teaching of Jesus, you are NOT a Christian.

gabby, bottom line, if you don't trust in Jesus as savior you're not a christian.

Loving all people IS a byproduct and evidence of christianity.
Not killing or mutilating people because they are "other" IS a byproduct and evidence of christianity.

but believing someone else is wrong and saying so in no uncertain terms doesn't mean you "hate" them because they are wrong.
In many cases the emotion is pity because they have been deceived.

And as far a pontificating goes, well it looks like the PONTIFF started it. And you're repeating his pontification.
I'd just like to see him STICK with the rest of the scripture as strait forwardly as he claims he's doing here.

I agree that a wall is STUPID. and that immigrants aren't a problem we should cry over.
It just weirds me out that he can say this stuff about immigration and global warming as if he got it strait from the bible
but when asked about other issues that are FAR more CLEARLY spoken of in the bible he gets all wishhy washy and subtle.
And even denies the primacy of Jesus Christ and bible over other religions.

[Perianne]

If you don't love and respect ALL people, you are not a Christian.
If all you think about is seeing certain people killed or mutilated, you are not a Christian.
If you hate someone just because they have different views, you are not a Christian.

Looking at posts on this board, there are damn few real Christians.
You can go to church regularly, give generously, quote scripture and pontificate all you want. But unless you understand and follow the teaching of Jesus, you are NOT a Christian.

Some people deserve to be killed.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

And he is right. Trump is closer to the Antichrist. He has no Christian morals or values.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/18/donald-trump-pope-francis-christian-wall-mexico-border

Really???
Since when has that ever bothered a liberal?
Hell, they love atheists, any kind of non-believer , along with the darkest of the wicked.
Were Trump that(Anti-Christ) every damn one of the lousy bastards would vote for him.-Tyr

[revelarts]

Some people deserve to be killed.

Perianne i would not want you as nurse in any hospital.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

hmm
How about the Pope changing the a few words there....

“A person who thinks only about the animals, wherever they may be, and not protecting humans, is not Christian.”

“A person who thinks only about protecting Atheist and Muslims legal rights, wherever they may be, and not protecting Christians, is not Christian.”

“A person who thinks only about keeping abortion legal, wherever it may be, and not protecting the unborn , is not Christian.”

“A person who thinks only about making homosexual marriage legal, wherever it may be, and not promoting God's clear standard , is not Christian.”

“A person who thinks only about questioning whether Jesus is the only way to God, wherever they may be, and doesn't proclaim it, is not Christian.”

Gabby seemed to have missed all of that.....-Tyr

[namvet]

the pope's no Christian. just another money maker for the Vatican

[jimnyc]

Gabby seemed to have missed all of that.....-Tyr

Oh, don't for a single second believe that she doesn't see things like that!

[Perianne]

Perrianne i would not want you as nurse in any hospital.

You disagree that child molesters, Osama Bin Laden, etc. don't deserve death? Or are you just up on your hypocritical high and mighty perch again?

And for the 1,000th time, there is only one "r" in Perianne. revelarts

[Russ]

If you don't love and respect ALL people, you are not a Christian.
If all you think about is seeing certain people killed or mutilated, you are not a Christian.
If you hate someone just because they have different views, you are not a Christian.

Looking at posts on this board, there are damn few real Christians.
You can go to church regularly, give generously, quote scripture and pontificate all you want. But unless you understand and follow the teaching of Jesus, you are NOT a Christian.

No offense, but the definition of a Christian does not come from a list made by Gabby while she's reading the board and sipping a glass of Chardonnay.

[revelarts]

You disagree that child molesters, Osama Bin Laden, etc. don't deserve death? Or are you just up on your hypocritical high and mighty perch again?

...

Perianne, if proven "child molesters and Osama Bin Laden" were the only the type of people you ever mentioned having problems with or the only folks or issues you've suggested death as a "solution" for, then i probably would not have made that comment.

[Perianne]

Perianne, if proven "child molesters and Osama Bin Laden" were the only the type of people you ever mentioned having problems with or the only folks or issues you've suggested death as a "solution" for, then i probably would not have made that comment.

I remember something from years ago.... Chester the Molester. It was in Mad Magazine or something.

[Kathianne]

For heaven's sake, don't take this as my defense of Trump or criticism of the Vatican, but it does seem relevant:

https://twitter.com/thebostonron/status/647661467181948929


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https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/2217159099/me_letchworth_crop_bigger.jpgBoston Ron‏@thebostonron (https://twitter.com/thebostonron)

Nice wall around Vatican City! After lecturing us on earthly things, let me suggest:Mr. Pope, tear down this wall!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CPz0rBdVEAA2qDD.png






11:38 PM - 25 Sep 2015

[NightTrain]

For heaven's sake, don't take this as my defense of Trump or criticism of the Vatican, but it does seem relevant:

https://twitter.com/thebostonron/status/647661467181948929


Funny... I had the same thought when I thought of the Vatican's walls after hearing this - Reagan saying, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"

[NightTrain]

No offense, but the definition of a Christian does not come from a list made by Gabby while she's reading the board and sipping a glass of Chardonnay.


I would have said 'Guzzling out of a box of White Zin', but yeah!

[Perianne]

I would have said 'Guzzling out of a box of White Zin', but yeah!

Or Ripple.

[jimnyc]

And can anyone tell me WHY the wall was originally built around the vatican? Not sure if true, but I heard it was built to protect from MUSLIM attackers. Anyone know of this is true or not?

[Perianne]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8440&stc=1

[jimnyc]

Or... interesting how one of the original reasons for it to go up was because of muslims.

---

Historically, the walls have been anything but ornamental in nature. The first 39-foot wall around the Vatican and its immediate vicinity was finished in 852, following a raid by Muslim pirates who damaged the city. That wall helped to protect Pope Gregory VII some 200 years later when the Holy Roman Emperor besieged Rome. Later, after Rome was violently sacked in 1527, Pope Paul III expanded the fortifications, and additional defenses continued to be built until the 1640s.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/18/pope-says-those-who-build-walls-arent-christian-lives-behind-massive-wall/#ixzz40bSSCVwY

[Russ]

Or... interesting how one of the original reasons for it to go up was because of muslims.

---

Historically, the walls have been anything but ornamental in nature. The first 39-foot wall around the Vatican and its immediate vicinity was finished in 852, following a raid by Muslim pirates who damaged the city. That wall helped to protect Pope Gregory VII some 200 years later when the Holy Roman Emperor besieged Rome. Later, after Rome was violently sacked in 1527, Pope Paul III expanded the fortifications, and additional defenses continued to be built until the 1640s.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/18/pope-says-those-who-build-walls-arent-christian-lives-behind-massive-wall/#ixzz40bSSCVwY

That is almost the definition of irony. I'm guessing the Pope didn't know that. I guess Vatican City used to have a problem with immigration... ;)

[Kathianne]

While I think the Pope should not get involved in US politics, certainly not during elections, in fairness there is a bit of discrepancy in what he said and what's being reported he said:

http://thefederalist.com/2016/02/18/5-problems-with-pope-francis-comments-on-donald-trumps-faith/


“A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian,” Francis said when a reporter asked him about Mr. Trump on the papal airliner as he returned to Rome after his six-day visit to Mexico.

Oh no he di-int! Here’s the full quote:



“A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not of building bridges, is not Christian. This is not the gospel. As far as what you said about whether I would advise to vote or not to vote, I am not going to get involved in that. I say only that this is man is not Christian if he has said things like that. We must see if he said things in that way and I will give him the benefit of the doubt.”

This pope has managed to speak in a way that has many saying 'he's for x,' or 'he's against y.' From gay marriages to women priests, etc. He's not plain speaking, to say the least.

I find him so far quite true to the teachings of the Church, though said in ways that do not lead to clarity.

[Drummond]

And again, the Vatican has a wall around it.:clap::clap::clap::clap:

[Drummond]

Bottom line: this is just the Pope behaving as though he's a good little European. No doubt he's heavily reliant on all the propaganda to be found in this part of the world .. heavily anti-Trump, and demonising to the hilt.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

That is almost the definition of irony. I'm guessing the Pope didn't know that. I guess Vatican City used to have a problem with immigration... ;)


I guess Vatican City used to have a problem with immigration

^^^^ I nearly fell out of my chair laughing reading this. :beer: :beer: :clap::clap::clap::clap:
------------

Those riding high horses so often forget that two by four(not splinter) in their own eye.
When one of the most well guarded men in the world, that uses every form of protections --including massive walls , starts interfering in our politics by decrying Trump 's comments on building a protective wall we get to see hypocrisy at its highest level known to mankind IMHO.
I hereby defy anybody to present a more obvious case of blatant and off the charts pure hypocrisy than this..
ANY TAKERS??? I can wait.... -Tyr

[glockmail]

Matthew 7:5 For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3 (http://biblehub.com/matthew/7-3.htm)"Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?

[Gunny]

If you don't love and respect ALL people, you are not a Christian.
If all you think about is seeing certain people killed or mutilated, you are not a Christian.
If you hate someone just because they have different views, you are not a Christian.

Looking at posts on this board, there are damn few real Christians.
You can go to church regularly, give generously, quote scripture and pontificate all you want. But unless you understand and follow the teaching of Jesus, you are NOT a Christian.

Funny how people like you are so quick to accuse others of being exactly what YOU are.

The fact of the matter is, in Christianity as in ALL religion, if you don't think your way is THE way then you might as well not get dressed up on Sunday and go through the motions.

And bearing false witness is definitely not Christian. Shall we take a look at some of YOUR posts and threads?

[tailfins]

I thought the Pope considered ALL Protestants non-Christian. By Biblical standards, Trump is not a practicing Christian because he's an unrepentant adulterer.

[Gunny]

I thought the Pope considered ALL Protestants non-Christian. By Biblical standards, Trump is not a practicing Christian because he's an unrepentant adulterer.

By Biblical standards, Catholics are worshipers of graven images.

[Abbey Marie]

Are we going back to the days of Pope Clement and Henry VIII?

[Gunny]

Or... interesting how one of the original reasons for it to go up was because of muslims.

---

Historically, the walls have been anything but ornamental in nature. The first 39-foot wall around the Vatican and its immediate vicinity was finished in 852, following a raid by Muslim pirates who damaged the city. That wall helped to protect Pope Gregory VII some 200 years later when the Holy Roman Emperor besieged Rome. Later, after Rome was violently sacked in 1527, Pope Paul III expanded the fortifications, and additional defenses continued to be built until the 1640s.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/18/pope-says-those-who-build-walls-arent-christian-lives-behind-massive-wall/#ixzz40bSSCVwY

They built them to guard against ALL non-Christian enemies. The Muslims never reached Italy, so were not a threat. They were stopped in France and Greece.

[Trigg]

They should be. But there is a separation of church and state. You have the right to not believe. You have no right to deny or remove the rights of others.
I love and respect all of my neighbors, regardless of their race, ethnic origin or choice of religions. Or their right to not be religious.
To think otherwise is a sin. And you know where sinners end up. :dev3:


You've spewed enough hatred on this board to write a book. So, if I were you, I wouldn't go casting the first stone.

[glockmail]

By Biblical standards, Catholics are worshipers of graven images.
Nope.

[namvet]

I can clearly see his 2 horns and a tail

[Gunny]

Nope.

Afraid so. I'm making a point, not an accusation.

[Kathianne]

Afraid so. I'm making a point, not an accusation.

A point that those with no understanding of Catholicism make routinely, otherwise known as Protestants. Feel free to check out this link, or not. The quickness to revert to this prejudice emphasis the hypocrisy when saying something about Muhammad and cartoons.

I've met some brilliant and tolerant Protestants, but not enough to find them acceptable in the main. Yes, I tend to give what I receive.

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/do-catholics-worship-statues

[Perianne]

A point that those with no understanding of Catholicism make routinely, otherwise known as Protestants. Feel free to check out this link, or not. The quickness to revert to this prejudice emphasis the hypocrisy when saying something about Muhammad and cartoons.

I've met some brilliant and tolerant Protestants, but not enough to find them acceptable in the main. Yes, I tend to give what I receive.

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/do-catholics-worship-statues

Tolerant of what or who?

[Kathianne]

Tolerant of what or who?

Oh, Kathianne thinks they'd just love you! Never fear.

[Perianne]

Oh, Kathianne thinks they'd just love you! Never fear.

Who are you talking about? Geez.

If you are talking about Catholics, I have a lot of respect for the religion.

[Russ]

A point that those with no understanding of Catholicism make routinely, otherwise known as Protestants. Feel free to check out this link, or not. The quickness to revert to this prejudice emphasis the hypocrisy when saying something about Muhammad and cartoons.

I've met some brilliant and tolerant Protestants, but not enough to find them acceptable in the main. Yes, I tend to give what I receive.

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/do-catholics-worship-statues

I'm Protestant, not Catholic, but I have to agree with Kathianne. Catholic churches may have a lot of statues and pictures, but they don't worship them, so they don't have graven images. And lots of religions have statues and pictures.

[Abbey Marie]

I'm Protestant, not Catholic, but I have to agree with Kathianne. Catholic churches may have a lot of statues and pictures, but they don't worship them, so they don't have graven images. And lots of religions have statues and pictures.

And weren't the ones we just saw in the Vatican glorious?

http://pre-code.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/ThePieta.jpg


http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--bE6H--ER--/fynvjbiamhx2kw0jngny.jpg

[Russ]

Yes, the Vatican is full of incredible works of art.

[Black Diamond]

The Pope needs to clean the pedophilia out of his own house before worrying about Donald Trump's or anyone else's.

[glockmail]

Afraid so. I'm making a point, not an accusation.

You stated" "Catholics are worshipers of graven images". I assert that you are wrong-o. Doesn't surprise me that you can't back it up.:laugh:

[Jeff]

The Pope needs to tend to his business and leave politics to the politicians.

[Black Diamond]

The Pope needs to tend to his business and leave politics to the politicians.

That too.

[glockmail]

John Paul II didn't, and you two would agree that was a good thing.

[Elessar]

There's nothing worse than a bad excuse for a comedian.

George Carlin was as liberal as they came, yet brilliant as of a comedian as ever was. The
man was a master of the English language.

So Miller is not liberal. What is the issue then? Both are/were entertainers, not politicians.

[Elessar]

The Pope needs to clean the pedophilia out of his own house before worrying about Donald Trump's or anyone else's.

Point well issued! ↑

[Gunny]

You stated" "Catholics are worshipers of graven images". I assert that you are wrong-o. Doesn't surprise me that you can't back it up.:laugh:

I stated "by Bibilical standards." Backing up the obvious is rather easy. Salvtion is through Christ. Not statues of every saint and Jesus's mother you can come up with to pray to.

The Catholic church presumes to speak FOR God. Protestants speak His words in HIS name. We don't have a cucifix at every corner and/or a display of Jesus hanging on a cross at the altar. We don't even have an altar.

The Catholic Church has been responsible for more barbarity in the name of Christ/God than anyone else they accuse. The Inquisitions, the Crusades ... Charlemagne alone murdered more people for refusing to convert to Christianity than any other thing that killed people during his reign. All because the Pope had anointed him Holy Roman Emperor. Charlemagne believed he had some divine entity on his side.

Point is, no one's blameless. The Pope put his pants on one leg at a time just like the rest of us and come Judgement Day, he's going to stand in line just like the rest of us. Somewhere between Jimmy Swaggert and Fred Phelps.

[Gunny]

George Carlin was as liberal as they came, yet brilliant as of a comedian as ever was. The
man was a master of the English language.

So Miller is not liberal. What is the issue then? Both are/were entertainers, not politicians.

Miller is more political than just a comedian. Rich Little was a comedian. I loved it when he did Nixon.:laugh: But he didn't take a side. Miller takes a side. I thought he was funny on SNL LONG before he became OReilly's sidekick though.

Of course lefties aren't going to like his humor because he nails their stupidity to the wall.

[glockmail]

I stated "by Bibilical standards." Backing up the obvious is rather easy. Salvtion is through Christ. Not statues of every saint and Jesus's mother you can come up with to pray to.

The Catholic church presumes to speak FOR God. Protestants speak His words in HIS name. We don't have a cucifix at every corner and/or a display of Jesus hanging on a cross at the altar. We don't even have an altar.

The Catholic Church has been responsible for more barbarity in the name of Christ/God than anyone else they accuse. The Inquisitions, the Crusades ... Charlemagne alone murdered more people for refusing to convert to Christianity than any other thing that killed people during his reign. All because the Pope had anointed him Holy Roman Emperor. Charlemagne believed he had some divine entity on his side.

Point is, no one's blameless. The Pope put his pants on one leg at a time just like the rest of us and come Judgement Day, he's going to stand in line just like the rest of us. Somewhere between Jimmy Swaggert and Fred Phelps.
That's your back up, more wrong allegations? We didn't pray to saints, statues or the Pope. Try again...

[Abbey Marie]

The Pope needs to clean the pedophilia out of his own house before worrying about Donald Trump's or anyone else's.

Is there any evidence it is still going on?

[Gunny]

That's your back up, more wrong allegations? We didn't pray to saints, statues or the Pope. Try again...

You mean the obvious doesn't exist? :laugh: You still pray to them. Otherwise, what's the purpose to calling someone a "Saint"? Middleman to get to God.

[glockmail]

You mean the obvious doesn't exist? :laugh: You still pray to them. Otherwise, what's the purpose to calling someone a "Saint"? Middleman to get to God.

Asking for their intervention is not the same as "praying to them", as one would pray to God.

But let's get back to your earlier statement: "Catholics are worshipers of graven images". You have still failed to provide evidence of this.

[Perianne]

Asking for their intervention is not the same as "praying to them", as one would pray to God.

But let's get back to your earlier statement: "Catholics are worshipers of graven images". You have still failed to provide evidence of this.

I worked at a Catholic hospital once. The morning prayer would start out "Our Lady of Lourdes, pray for us in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit".

[glockmail]

I worked at a Catholic hospital once. The morning prayer would start out "Our Lady of Lourdes, pray for us in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit".

In other words, you prayed for them to pray for you: intervention.

[Perianne]

In other words, you prayed for them to pray for you: intervention.

Yep. It is clear you are asking for intervention by Mother Mary.

[glockmail]

Yep. It is clear you are asking for intervention by Mother Mary.Which is not at all what Gunny was falsely claiming, that Catholics worship saints, idols, statues, artwork...

[Gunny]

Asking for their intervention is not the same as "praying to them", as one would pray to God.

But let's get back to your earlier statement: "Catholics are worshipers of graven images". You have still failed to provide evidence of this.

I haven't failed. A crucifix is a graven image. You can start there and work your way up.

My Bible doen't say a damned thing about praying to a middle man. Christ never held himself above talking to the lowest of the low/downtrodden. I don't need an appointment with His secretary. I've made my point. You saying it ain't so doesn't make that point go away.

BTW ... someone else mentioned art, not me.

Wonder how it is the Pope can denounce Trump as un-Christian; yet, not a peep during the Holocaust under the guise of neutrality?

[glockmail]

I haven't failed. A crucifix is a graven image. You can start there and work your way up.

My Bible doen't say a damned thing about praying to a middle man. Christ never held himself above talking to the lowest of the low/downtrodden. I don't need an appointment with His secretary. I've made my point. You saying it ain't so doesn't make that point go away.

BTW ... someone else mentioned art, not me.

Wonder how it is the Pope can denounce Trump as un-Christian; yet, not a peep during the Holocaust under the guise of neutrality?

According to Gunny's definition perhaps, but here's the definition of "graven image" that the rest of the world relies on: "an object of worship carved usually from wood or stone : idol". [m-w.com]
Catholics don't worship or idolize a cross, so again I have proven you wrong.

Why is it so hard for you to admit your mistake?