.380

[Perianne]

What do you guys think about a .380 pistol for concealed carry for me? Remember, I am little with little hands.

[NightTrain]

What do you guys think about a .380 pistol for concealed carry for me? Remember, I am little with little hands.

9mm has more power. The recoil is negligible... lots of petite women fire it without any problems.

[Perianne]

9mm has more power. The recoil is negligible... lots of petite women fire it without any problems.

Thanks for the reply.

Which recoil? .380 or 9mm? I already have a 9mm, and it kicks kinda hard. I don't know if I could handle that in a really small gun.

[Jeff]

380 is a good carry gun, I carry one when I don't want ( or can't ) let anyone know I am carrying. My 380 actually fits in my back pocket. Hell when Jim was down we went to the range shooting, I carried a few of my favorites and a buddy carried some of his, when we were done shooting I cleaned up and threw all the guns in a bag, I thought. I got home and was putting my guns up and realized I had one missing , the little 380. I quick called my buddy to see if he had picked it up, I destroyed the truck looking to see if I had dropped it, and all the time it was in my back pocket, behind my wallet. While putting everything away and making sure everything was empty I threw the 380 in my pocket, the bag I was carrying was over filled with guns so I figured I would just carry it in my pocket until we got home, but it was small enough that I forgot it was there.

This little 380 started out as the wife's, she bought it against my advice. It's a Taurus and they have always had a bad rep, but she got it cheap, I took it in the yard to show her the difference between a cheap gun ( Taurus ) and a good gun ( my Glock ) and the 380 performed just as well as the Glock. After doing some research I found out another company had bought into or all of Taurus. I still love my Glocks but I now carry a Taurus 45, it was 2 ounces heavier than the 40 Glock were as the light weight 45 Glock was putting out at the time was about equal in weight as the 40 I had, difference being is the Glock 45 has a single row in the Mag where the Taurus has a double, and there was at least a $300 difference in price as well.

I love many different makes of guns but at this point and time for the money the Taurus 380 is a good buy ( under 200 bucks if remember right ) and I have shot all kinds of ammo through it and have shot it all different ways and have never had a shell jam on me. This little gun will pack a wallop and you can hide it just about anywhere.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

What do you guys think about a .380 pistol for concealed carry for me? Remember, I am little with little hands.

If a small woman I recommend staying in the 380/9mm caliber range.
Find the gun(size) that you are comfortable shooting, then look for it in either caliber to buy.
You can use the.380 and umpth it up with the right ammo.
For self-defense buy and shoot hollow-point ammo.
I suggest using any of these three and the prices are not too bad.


1. 380 Auto Remington Golden Saber 102gr. HP Ammo

2. .380 Auto Hornady Critical Defense 90gr. FTX Hollow Point Ammo

3. 380 Auto Federal Hydra-Shok 90gr. JHP Ammo


If you decide to go with the 9mm, check the same sources, they make 9mm too.

Take every safety precaution with any gun you use. Do that regardless of gun expertise....
Remember a bullet has no brain, can not decide not to be fired whether its intentional or accidental firing.
And once fired can not be recalled, injures or kills regardless if its purposeful or not!
If new to using pistols/guns, go get safety training first.. -Tyr

[Jeff]

If a small woman I recommend staying in the 380/9mm caliber range.
Find the gun(size) that you are comfortable shooting, then look for it in either caliber to buy.
You can use the.380 and umpth it up with the right ammo.
For self-defense buy and shoot hollow-point ammo.
I suggest using any of these three and the prices are not too bad.


380 Auto Remington Golden Saber 102gr. HP Ammo

.380 Auto Hornady Critical Defense 90gr. FTX Hollow Point Ammo

380 Auto Federal Hydra-Shok 90gr. JHP Ammo


If you decide to go with the 9mm, check the same sources, they make 9mm too.

Take every safety precaution with any gun you use. Do that regardless of gun expertise....
Remember a bullet has no brain, can not decide not to be fire whether its intentional or accidental firing.
And once fired can not be recalled, injures or kills regardless if its purposeful or not!
If new to using pistols/guns, go get safety training first.. -Tyr

Sounds like the poor ammo has the same issue as people screaming how guns kill folks, neither the bullet nor the idiot has a brain,

As far as the ammo, a buddy gave me a disc with a video of a new bullet Hornady has coming out, Yup I have a few boxes on order already, what a nasty bullet.

[Perianne]

Thanks, Jeff.

Yes, some of the .380s are small and that appeals to me. Again, I have really small hands. I was looking at this site and they talked about .380s and others. http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/readers-choice-real-list-the-13-concealed-carry-guns/

My daughter is 5'6" and can handle the 9mm without any problems, but it is heavy for me. I want something I can hide on me somewhere for safety.

[Perianne]

If a small woman I recommend staying in the 380/9mm caliber range.
Find the gun(size) that you are comfortable shooting, then look for it in either caliber to buy.
You can use the.380 and umpth it up with the right ammo.
For self-defense buy and shoot hollow-point ammo.
I suggest using any of these three and the prices are not too bad.


1. 380 Auto Remington Golden Saber 102gr. HP Ammo

2. .380 Auto Hornady Critical Defense 90gr. FTX Hollow Point Ammo

3. 380 Auto Federal Hydra-Shok 90gr. JHP Ammo


If you decide to go with the 9mm, check the same sources, they make 9mm too.

Take every safety precaution with any gun you use. Do that regardless of gun expertise....
Remember a bullet has no brain, can not decide not to be fired whether its intentional or accidental firing.
And once fired can not be recalled, injures or kills regardless if its purposeful or not!
If new to using pistols/guns, go get safety training first.. -Tyr

I have shot thousands of rounds in my lifetime.

I hate to admit it, but I am getting old, 59 in June. The years of tugging, pulling, and turning heavy patients has had an effect on my arms and shoulders.

My husband left me a .357 that I used to shoot. Now it hurts me and I won't shoot it any longer. I use .38s and I do okay with those.

[NightTrain]

I guess the most important thing is to find a pistol that you like. A .380 will do just fine and will kick less.

And a .22 is a damn sight better than none at all!

[indago]

What do you guys think about a .380 pistol for concealed carry for me? Remember, I am little with little hands.

My daughter has a .380 auto with a tiny laser on it.

[Perianne]

My daughter has a .380 auto with a tiny laser on it.

I saw one of those. I liked it.

[indago]

I saw one of those. I liked it.

What's neat about the laser is you don't have to hold your arms outstretched with both hands on the gun like some do in the movies. That's just an invitation to be disarmed. You can hold the pistol close to you where it is hard to reach for an intruder.




.

[indago]

And you can put the laser point on his crotch and pull the trigger...

[Perianne]

And you can put the laser point on his crotch and pull the trigger...

Oh, you are mean, indago! lol

Would you rather be shot in the torso or on your crotch?

[Voted4Reagan]

Colt Lady Elite .380

https://www.gunsamerica.com/UserImages/3352/914629524/wm_3024729.jpg

[CSM]

I like the .380 for concealed carry as well. For open carry, I like my .45 1911 in a shoulder holster. Yeah, I know, not as sexy as the leg holsters but I'm old and I carried that way for a long time during my 28 years I the Army. So sue me.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I like the .380 for concealed carry as well. For open carry, I like my .45 1911 in a shoulder holster. Yeah, I know, not as sexy as the leg holsters but I'm old and I carried that way for a long time during my 28 years I the Army. So sue me.

Best 45. 1911 that I found to shoot is my Kimber, certainly too big for conceal carry.
For conceal carry I use primarily my 9mm but sometimes my 32 caliber as its even smaller.
As Nighttrain pointed out, even a 22 caliber is better than nothing. ;)
I also have two primary razor sharp knives one in my car (easy to reach), another one almost always in my pocket.. I am exceedingly good with knives, taught by my Native American grandfather.
I have often imagined that if forced to defend myself and kill an attacker that I possibly would just scalp him too after the fight is over. ;)--Tyr

[Perianne]

Best 45. 1911 that I found to shoot is my Kimber, certainly too big for conceal carry.
For conceal carry I use primarily my 9mm but sometimes my 32 caliber as its even smaller.
As Nighttrain pointed out, even a 22 caliber is better than nothing. ;)
I also have two primary razor sharp knives one in my car (easy to reach), another one almost always in my pocket.. I am exceedingly good with knives, taught by my Native American grandfather.
I have often imagined that if forced to defend myself and kill an attacker that I possibly would just scalp him too after the fight is over. ;)--Tyr

I hope to never fight you, sir. I would hate to lose my hair. :)

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I hope to never fight you, sir. I would hate to lose my hair. :)

I never fight women... I walk away to avoid ever doing that as its a very unmanly thing to do IMHO.-Tyr

[Perianne]

I never fight women... I walk away to avoid ever doing that as its a very unmanly thing to do IMHO.-Tyr

I know, sir. I was just kidding with you. I believe you to be an old-time gentleman with women.

[Perianne]

I don't understand how concealed carry works. Do you just put the gun in your back pocket?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I don't understand how concealed carry works. Do you just put the gun in your back pocket?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhHGVVRLMxY

Concealed Carry Mistakes, Don'ts, and Blunders

Click the link and watch, also you said you fired lots of guns. Ok thats one thing but proper gun safety and knowledge of safe handing if carry gun concealed is another thing entirely.
Of course not sure how other states mandate conceal carry training but it should if a course is required cover many of your questions.
Here we get to conceal carry , as of now, without need of the required conceal carry permit. However, if crossing a state line we are not allowed to continue conceal carry unless we also have the conceal carry permit.-Tyr

[Jeff]

I don't understand how concealed carry works. Do you just put the gun in your back pocket?

In GA we can open carry or conceal the weapon, I prefer to always conceal. I wear a shoulder holster because I never leave the house without my Cut ( a leather vest with my clubs colors on it ) and that makes for real easy access to my gun but keeps it out of sight from others. IMO those folks that walk into Walmart with their 1911 ( or any gun way to big for concealed carry ) hanging on their side is more of a confidence boost for them, problem is, another idiot is walking around with his cheap ass POS ( High Point ) making him a bad man as well. Someone that wishes to carry for his/her own protection doesn't need for other folks to see their weapon. Now their are folks that open carry because they feel it's their right, I have no problem with those type of folks, it's the ones that you can spot a mile away that have on their Harley Tee shirt ( and get out of a mini van ) their black engineer boots ( hell they work as greeters at Walmart) yea the folks that strap a gun on just because they think it makes them tough, they are the ones I wish we could get laws to control. they actually hurt our rights.

Hell I had one guy argue with me that once you have a carry permit ( CWP - concealed weapons permit ) you must pull your gun if trouble arises, he tried to tell me that once you have that piece of paper you are now responsible to stop any crime, truth be told a cop would rather you get them a tag # than see you pull your weapon.

To answer your question is simple, Carry your weapon in anyway you wish so as no one even knows you have it with you, a pocket can work, my shoulder holster keeps my weapon out of sight, your pocket book ect.... The entire idea of concealed carry is you have a weapon in case of a emergency but you ( I do anyway ) never have to pull it or let anyone know you even have it unless it is the last resort.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

In GA we can open carry or conceal the weapon, I prefer to always conceal. I wear a shoulder holster because I never leave the house without my Cut ( a leather vest with my clubs colors on it ) and that makes for real easy access to my gun but keeps it out of sight from others. IMO those folks that walk into Walmart with their 1911 ( or any gun way to big for concealed carry ) hanging on their side is more of a confidence boost for them, problem is, another idiot is walking around with his cheap ass POS ( High Point ) making him a bad man as well. Someone that wishes to carry for his/her own protection doesn't need for other folks to see their weapon. Now their are folks that open carry because they feel it's their right, I have no problem with those type of folks, it's the ones that you can spot a mile away that have on their Harley Tee shirt ( and get out of a mini van ) their black engineer boots ( hell they work as greeters at Walmart) yea the folks that strap a gun on just because they think it makes them tough, they are the ones I wish we could get laws to control. they actually hurt our rights.

Hell I had one guy argue with me that once you have a carry permit ( CWP - concealed weapons permit ) you must pull your gun if trouble arises, he tried to tell me that once you have that piece of paper you are now responsible to stop any crime, truth be told a cop would rather you get them a tag # than see you pull your weapon.

To answer your question is simple, Carry your weapon in anyway you wish so as no one even knows you have it with you, a pocket can work, my shoulder holster keeps my weapon out of sight, your pocket book ect.... The entire idea of concealed carry is you have a weapon in case of a emergency but you ( I do anyway ) never have to pull it or let anyone know you even have it unless it is the last resort.

In Arkansas, we can open carry or conceal carry without a conceal carry permit being required-at least as of now.
I never open carry. Why advertise?
Some crazed fool may just decide to shoot ya in the back of the head before he blasts others.
So as to not have you interfere in his fun.
I have no need to let others know that I am carrying, its for my and my family's protection, any protection it may provide others would be co-incidental as I have no thoughts of walking around looking to pull my gun to help others. I am not a cop, don't ever want to be one.
If my gun comes it--you can bet your damn last dollar I am shooting the intended opponent as soon as I can.
It may help others but first and foremost, its gonna help me and mine.-Tyr

[Little-Acorn]

A .380 has less power than a 9mm, certainly. This would seem to mean that it has less recoil.

But it doesn't, because the pistol you are firing it out of, is almost always smaller than its brother that fires 9mm.

To a small person, the recoil of both is considerable. If you are ready for it (read: if you have practiced), you'll handle it fine.

Long ago I brought my wife (5'3", 90# maybe) to a firing range and she tried my 9mm Taurus pistol. She was holding it up with just enough strength to keep it from drooping in her hand. The first shot kicked the gun up so that the barrel bounced off her head. I coached her how to hold it solidly, and her subsequent shots were much better controlled. I didn't have a .380 Auto at the time, so couldn't compare them. But I suspect the same thing would have happened with a first, inexperienced shot.

Since then I have done a lot of firing with both 9mm and .380 Auto. The recoils seem identical to me.

Sine a .380 Auto is usually a smaller gun, that may be your deciding factor. Will it fit better in your purse or holster without showing obviously?

Some guns have magazines where the cartridges are staggered. They hold more ammo, but the mag is thicker, so the gun must be wider. I have heard this cited as a reason why such staggered-mag guns are less suitable, since the take more room in your purse or bulge more in a concealed holster. Other guns have cartridges in a single row, which makes for a flatter gun.

Try a number of guns. The one that feels best to you, is the one to use.

[Gunny]

Give ME a Walther PPK/S in .380. Only reason I don't have one is they're overpriced. For all that matters, give me a Beretta Jetfire .22. It isn't the size of the round that matters, it's where you put it.

Gun preferences are like a$$holes. My favorites are the M1911A1 .45 ACP and the Colt Single Action Army. Not exactly concealment guns. Especially when with guys, how we dress generally dictates what we can carry. That Colt SAA ain't exactly invisible in swim trunks. :laugh:

I'm assuming we're talking self defense here? My favorite offensive weapon is a Remington Model 700 with a 20x scope, and an MP-5 as backup. :)

I have ZERO problem with a .380. It's just a short 9mm. It's original designation was 9mm kurz. The 9mm Makarov is comparable to the .380. The point here is what can you control? I can fire a .44 Magnum one-handed and hit bulls all day. I can empty an 8 round mag of .45 ACP in the amount of time it takes to get off 3 rounds of .44 Mag.

I say go with what you can control and shoot.

[Perianne]

Thanks to everyone. I realize that the best concealed carry is a weapon who can stop someone with one shot. But something is better than nothing, right. So, after reading all the comments, I have decided to look for the biggest I can handle without fear of it hurting me. I will go to the gun store and try them out. After all, Bud's is right here in Lexington.

[darin]

22 Magnum. Perfect carry gun.


22MAG vs 380

http://www.hornady.com/assets/images/products/ammo/gel/critical-defense-compare-22wmr-380auto.jpg


Get the pistol you can shoot quickly and most-accurately.

[Jeff]

Thanks to everyone. I realize that the best concealed carry is a weapon who can stop someone with one shot. But something is better than nothing, right. So, after reading all the comments, I have decided to look for the biggest I can handle without fear of it hurting me. I will go to the gun store and try them out. After all, Bud's is right here in Lexington.

The best carry gun you can carry is the one that is most comfortable to you, I have had 380's that actually hurt when you shoot them and I have had them that seem to not have any recoil at all, do your homework, go to the gun store find a gun that feels good to you ( or a few different ones ) then go to one of those ranges that rents guns, try all the ones that felt good in your hand and see which feels the best to fire and then you have just found the gun for you.

I am lucky enough to have one of those ranges that rents gun right next door to the shop I normally buy my guns at. It makes it real nice to be able to shoot the weapon before you purchase it.

[namvet]

http://cache.graphicslib.viator.com/graphicslib/media/8c/uss-missouri-pearl-harbour-photo_2047372-770tall.jpg

so?? just push the damned button

[Perianne]

http://cache.graphicslib.viator.com/graphicslib/media/8c/uss-missouri-pearl-harbour-photo_2047372-770tall.jpg

so?? just push the damned button

I see the orange plug thingies.

[namvet]

I see the orange plug thingies.

don't worry they pop out just before firing

[NightTrain]

Sexy.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8474&stc=1

See the shell leaving the forward turret? That's 2700 pounds of Freedom being delivered at Mach 2.4.

[namvet]

Sexy.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8474&stc=1

See the shell leaving the forward turret? That's 2700 pounds of Freedom being delivered at Mach 2.4.

you can see the recoil as she starts to move sideways

[NightTrain]

We've now run the gamut from .22 to 16 inch guns. :thumb:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

We've now run the gamut from .22 to 16 inch guns. :thumb:

The German Bismarck battleship had the deadliest Naval guns of WW2.
A single hit destroyed the Brit heavy cruiser Hood.-Tyr



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismarck-class_battleship


Although other contemporary vessels like the American North Carolina-class battleships carried 40.6-cm main guns, the Bismarcks used 38-cm naval guns as the Germans had experience with them; a 40.6-cm weapon would have had to have been designed from scratch. Bismarck was also authorized prior to the breakdown of the London Naval Treaty and the invocation of the 45,000-ton, 406-mm main gun escalator clause (which the United States did invoke with the North Carolinas); building 40.6 cm battleships would doubtless have seemed provocative, especially to the United Kingdom. As it was, the 38 cm main battery of the Bismarck class compared well to their contemporaries, out-ranging almost all of the 38 cm and 40.6 cm guns of contemporary navies (with the exception of the Italian 38.1 cm gun, which suffered exceptional bore erosion as a consequence). The German gun was superior to the World War I era BL 15 inch /42 naval gun (381 mm) of the Royal Navy in both range and penetration.[21]

Germans were always very good with gun design and quality.
I've always wanted a functioning WW2 era German Luger but have never managed to get one. -Tyr

[NightTrain]

The German Bismarck battleship had the deadliest Naval guns of WW2.
A single hit destroyed the Brit heavy cruiser Hood.-Tyr

Yeah, HMS Hood's lack of adequate deck armoring was a serious flaw... but she wasn't a Battleship, she was a heavily modified Cruiser. Taking a round in the ammo storage compartments ended it all very quickly.

I always thought the Bismarck had 16" guns... turns out they were 15 inchers. And her escort, the Cruiser Prinz Eugen, only had 8" guns.

HMS King George V had 14" guns, but the HMS Rodney had 16" guns. Once the Battleships started slugging it out, the fight only lasted an hour before the Bismarck was engulfed in flames, listing and sinking... but there had been a hell of a lot of lead exchanged.

I was always curious to see how that battle would have ended up had the Bismarck been able to maneuver. That jammed rudder from the torpedo plane's hit really changed the balance. I'm not a Naval historian by any stretch, but I do know that you're maneuvering to beat hell to avoid being hit, and Bismarck didn't have that option and was reliably predictable as a result, making the Royal Navy's job a lot easier - not to detract from the admirable job they did, big respect for the brutal pounding they gave the Krauts.

Probably why I always thought the Bismarck had 16-inchers was from Johnny Horton : "The Germans had the biggest ship, that had the biggest guns." I used to listen to a lot of Johnny Horton as a wee lad... the old man was a huge fan and he wore that 8-track out on our road trips.

[CSM]

I dunno but I think it would be pretty hard to conceal a 16" naval rifle on your person. I also doubt that most women could handle the recoil. Maybe it's just me though.

[NightTrain]

I dunno but I think it would be pretty hard to conceal a 16" naval rifle on your person. I also doubt that most women could handle the recoil. Maybe it's just me though.


True. But if she did pack one around, she'd be able to say "Go ahead.... make my day."

[CSM]

True. But if she did pack one around, she'd be able to say "Go ahead.... make my day."

LOL...if she were capable of carrying that, she would have NOTHING to worry about in any case! Heck she would not have to carry or conceal any weapon!

[NightTrain]

LOL...if she were capable of carrying that, she would have NOTHING to worry about in any case! Heck she would not have to carry or conceal any weapon!

That would be a "Yes Ma'am" kind of situation.

[Gunny]

True. But if she did pack one around, she'd be able to say "Go ahead.... make my day."

Wasn't it Granny on Beverly Hillbillies that carried that huge Walker Colt?:laugh:

[Perianne]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8477&stc=1

[Gunny]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8477&stc=1

I sure as Hell wouldn't want to be the one taking that picture. :laugh:

[NightTrain]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8477&stc=1

Clint Eastwood's mom in Every Which Way But Loose. She was awesome!

The cops and the bikers were terrified of her, and for good reason! :laugh:

[indago]

I've always wanted a functioning WW2 era German Luger but have never managed to get one. -Tyr

I had a 1916 model Luger 9mm. Passed it on to my daughter several years ago.

[Voted4Reagan]

We've now run the gamut from .22 to 16 inch guns. :thumb:

Nope... one more that is bigger...

18.1" on the Battleship Yamato

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/0f/67/f6/0f67f6de9b5a6fedda523fd1165c46dd.jpg

[Gunny]

Nope... one more that is bigger...

18.1" on the Battleship Yamato

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/0f/67/f6/0f67f6de9b5a6fedda523fd1165c46dd.jpg

Yeah but that boat don't float anymore. :laugh:

The Japanese wasted it as a decoy. I would have used it to shell the crap out of Guadalcanal.

[Voted4Reagan]

Yeah but that boat don't float anymore. :laugh:

The Japanese wasted it as a decoy. I would have used it to shell the crap out of Guadalcanal.

They have unused barrels in Japan.... just need turrets for them.

[Gunny]

They have unused barrels in Japan.... just need turrets for them.

They broke their own rule. They turned WWII in the Pacific into a carrier war. They could have probably gotten at least two carriers out of the steel they wasted on that albatross. The days of dueling battleships was over. They are however StILL, IMO, the best artillery platform ever invented and 1/10th the cost of using air power.

[NightTrain]

Ah, yes the Yamato. Another magnificent warship that was never properly used for what she was designed for. It seems that when you build the biggest, baddest ship around that you become so invested in it that you're unwilling to put her in harm's way - contrary to exactly what is her purpose.

Personally, I'm happy that the Japs and Krauts were afflicted with this strange fear of using their ultimate weapons... worked out well for us.

I'm pretty sure that Bull Halsey would have worn those guns out with use instead of skulking around in hidden fjords or rear island areas.

[Gunny]

Ah, yes the Yamato. Another magnificent warship that was never properly used for what she was designed for. It seems that when you build the biggest, baddest ship around that you become so invested in it that you're unwilling to put her in harm's way - contrary to exactly what is her purpose.

Personally, I'm happy that the Japs and Krauts were afflicted with this strange fear of using their ultimate weapons... worked out well for us.

I'm pretty sure that Bull Halsey would have worn those guns out with use instead of skulking around in hidden fjords or rear island areas.

Did I miss something? The Bismark is in on this? The problem Germany had with the Bismark is no supporting vessels. You can't just stick a battleship out there and go to town unless you're at war with junks. Look at any of our carriers. You can't get near them. There are 50 other some-odd ships in that carrier battle group and you have to go through every one to get to Mama. They just cut the Bismark loose on its own.

The biggest crime was using it as a commerce raider. Hitler was famous for that. He insisted the Messerschmitt ME-262 (world's first operational jet) be used as a bomber. I'd have used it against allied bombers and fighters. It had no equal. Thinking the world's largest battleship was good only for sinking supply boats was stupid.

[NightTrain]

Did I miss something? The Bismark is in on this? The problem Germany had with the Bismark is no supporting vessels. You can't just stick a battleship out there and go to town unless you're at war with junks. Look at any of our carriers. You can't get near them. There are 50 other some-odd ships in that carrier battle group and you have to go through every one to get to Mama. They just cut the Bismark loose on its own.

The biggest crime was using it as a commerce raider. Hitler was famous for that. He insisted the Messerschmitt ME-262 (world's first operational jet) be used as a bomber. I'd have used it against allied bombers and fighters. It had no equal. Thinking the world's largest battleship was good only for sinking supply boats was stupid.

Agree. It wasn't used properly... it should have been out on the high seas with Destroyers & Cruisers doing what it was meant to do by slugging it out against other warships. Instead, they gave it Prinz Eugen and told it to sink shipping. Kind of feels like another one of Hitler's not-so-brilliant ideas instead of Admiral Doenitz running the show.

And the Tirpitz, Bismarck's sister ship, just sat there in a fjord while the RAF bombed her to the bottom... the only action she ever saw was one ship-to-shore bombardment. Still, I guess the Brits kept a sizable portion of their navy in the area just because of her presence... but that was a waste, IMO.

I guess it's real easy for me to sit here and criticize almost 80 years later... Naval Warfare Expert that I am. :coffee:

[Gunny]

Agree. It wasn't used properly... it should have been out on the high seas with Destroyers & Cruisers doing what it was meant to do by slugging it out against other warships. Instead, they gave it Prinz Eugen and told it to sink shipping. Kind of feels like another one of Hitler's not-so-brilliant ideas instead of Admiral Doenitz running the show.

And the Tirpitz, Bismarck's sister ship, just sat there in a fjord while the RAF bombed her to the bottom... the only action she ever saw was one ship-to-shore bombardment. Still, I guess the Brits kept a sizable portion of their navy in the area just because of her presence... but that was a waste, IMO.

I guess it's real easy for me to sit here and criticize almost 80 years later... Naval Warfare Expert that I am. :coffee:

The Royal Navy stayed home because Britain was under siege. They had neither the range nor technology to go out and chase down Doenitz's wolfpacks. There was a no man's land around Greenland that was too far for either the US or Britain to defend. Once they got sonar, and long range bombing capabilities, the Wolfpacks were done. Of all the planes you'd think were pointless, the PBY Catalina was the best because it had the range. The B-24 was next up in line.

Hitler was stupid as a military person, regardless what he thought of himself. The war was his for the taking and he blundered from one dumbass move to another. He should have listened to his generals. To this day, a lot of German weaponry created what we use. The AK is a direct knock-off of the MG-42. Walther handguns are still state of the art and were the first viable double action semi-automatics invented.

Hitler had the tools. He didn't know how to use them. I'd have sent the Bismark after the British Navy, with plenty of cruiser ad sub escorts. I would never have tied the Prince Eugen to the Bismark. The Brits were floating WWI battleships and carriers. Only luck saved them. The US had the USS Texas around. Another WWI battleship.

Hitler allowed his emotions to control his reasoning and he lost the war for it. He could have kicked our asses from the outset and all we'd have been able to do is watch.

[namvet]

Nope... one more that is bigger...

18.1" on the Battleship Yamato

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/0f/67/f6/0f67f6de9b5a6fedda523fd1165c46dd.jpg

she had a sister, the Musashi which died in the the Battle of Leyte Gulf

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/474x/45/86/bf/4586bf478150389594424b142b2e4c11.jpg

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Yeah, HMS Hood's lack of adequate deck armoring was a serious flaw... but she wasn't a Battleship, she was a heavily modified Cruiser. Taking a round in the ammo storage compartments ended it all very quickly.

I always thought the Bismarck had 16" guns... turns out they were 15 inchers. And her escort, the Cruiser Prinz Eugen, only had 8" guns.

HMS King George V had 14" guns, but the HMS Rodney had 16" guns. Once the Battleships started slugging it out, the fight only lasted an hour before the Bismarck was engulfed in flames, listing and sinking... but there had been a hell of a lot of lead exchanged.

I was always curious to see how that battle would have ended up had the Bismarck been able to maneuver. That jammed rudder from the torpedo plane's hit really changed the balance. I'm not a Naval historian by any stretch, but I do know that you're maneuvering to beat hell to avoid being hit, and Bismarck didn't have that option and was reliably predictable as a result, making the Royal Navy's job a lot easier - not to detract from the admirable job they did, big respect for the brutal pounding they gave the Krauts.

Probably why I always thought the Bismarck had 16-inchers was from Johnny Horton : "The Germans had the biggest ship, that had the biggest guns." I used to listen to a lot of Johnny Horton as a wee lad... the old man was a huge fan and he wore that 8-track out on our road trips.

I am a huge fan of Johnny Horton myself. His “ The Battle of New Orleans,” was my favorite song, only one that I would dare sing to when listening back then(I'M A LOSING SINGER).:laugh:-TYR

[namvet]

HMS Barham the only brit BB sunk went out with a bang



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdrISbwy_zI

[Gunny]

I had a 1916 model Luger 9mm. Passed it on to my daughter several years ago.

Very tempermental gun. They're nice when they function. The Germans went with the Walther P-38 and PP because they were more reliable function-wise. Not to mention lots cheaper.

[Gunny]

I am a huge fan of Johnny Horton myself. His “ The Battle of New Orleans,” was my favorite song, only one that I would dare sing to when listening back then(I'M A LOSING SINGER).:laugh:-TYR

Figures you would know who Johnny Horton is. :laugh:

[indago]

Very tempermental gun. They're nice when they function. The Germans went with the Walther P-38 and PP because they were more reliable function-wise. Not to mention lots cheaper.

Yes, more of a curiosity anymore, and a collector item than a serious carry weapon. Almost made it through the army weapons trials early in the 1900's, but was beat out by the Colt .45 auto.

article (http://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/43501183401/the-pistol-that-almost-beat-the-colt-1911-the-45)

[NightTrain]

I am a huge fan of Johnny Horton myself. His “ The Battle of New Orleans,” was my favorite song, only one that I would dare sing to when listening back then(I'M A LOSING SINGER).:laugh:-TYR

Always liked Johnny Reb :

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