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Perianne
02-23-2016, 10:08 PM
Who was the greatest and wisest World War II general?

NightTrain
02-23-2016, 10:29 PM
Hard to pick one. Patton is a favorite of mine, but I think Rommel was the most brilliant. Even with the Allies choking his supply lines relentlessly, he still managed to pull off impressive wins. There's no telling how far he could have gone with proper supplies & reinforcements.

My least favorite would have to be Britain's Bernard Montgomery. He was an egotistical prick and Patton loathed him. However, I am aware that my opinion on him was formed reading American recounts of the war exclusively, so that may be a bit unfair.

Kathianne
02-23-2016, 10:33 PM
Hard to pick one. Patton is a favorite of mine, but I think Rommel was the most brilliant. Even with the Allies choking his supply lines relentlessly, he still managed to pull off impressive wins. There's no telling how far he could have gone with proper supplies & reinforcements.


Wow, my opinion exactly! Even same regarding Monty and caveat. ;)

Black Diamond
02-23-2016, 10:51 PM
Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book.

NightTrain
02-23-2016, 11:03 PM
Zhukov was another brilliant General, but to a lesser degree IMO than both Patton and Rommel.

He was fortunate that Stalin didn't take his head over the Kiev disagreement... while everyone else was licking Stalin's boots, Zhukov told him what he thought and refused to kowtow.

Black Diamond
02-23-2016, 11:07 PM
Zhukov was another brilliant General, but to a lesser degree IMO than both Patton and Rommel.

He was fortunate that Stalin didn't take his head over the Kiev disagreement... while everyone else was licking Stalin's boots, Zhukov told him what he thought and refused to kowtow.

Zhukov and the Red Army were brutal. No one talks of their brutality.

Black Diamond
02-23-2016, 11:08 PM
Wasn't it Zhukov who drove the Germans away from Moscow?

NightTrain
02-23-2016, 11:14 PM
Wasn't it Zhukov who drove the Germans away from Moscow?

Among others... but he was the brains behind it.

I don't place him on the same level as the others because of the tens of thousands of peasants used as cannon fodder to overwhelm the Germans. I realize they were fighting for their lives, literally, but still...

Patton and Rommel lost a lot of men, but they didn't throw wave after wave at the enemy until the bad guys ran out of ammo. That's a whole new level of cold.

Black Diamond
02-23-2016, 11:18 PM
Among others... but he was the brains behind it.

I don't place him on the same level as the others because of the tens of thousands of peasants used as cannon fodder to overwhelm the Germans. I realize they were fighting for their lives, literally, but still...

Patton and Rommel lost a lot of men, but they didn't throw wave after wave at the enemy until the bad guys ran out of ammo. That's a whole new level of cold.

Stalin....

CSM
02-24-2016, 07:25 AM
I too have high regard for Rommel. To me, it's a toss up between Bradley and Patton, though Patton was probably a better "soldier's soldier". Unfortunately, the type of military leadership found throughout WWII would be castigated and shunned by today's civilian "leadership" (not sure you can call whatever the current CinC does "leadership").

namvet
02-24-2016, 09:25 AM
Patton. he talked the talk and walked the walk. the most feared by the Nazi's

aboutime
02-24-2016, 10:15 PM
http://youtu.be/CYhHIe_UELM

The General I most admire from our History....:salute:

namvet
02-24-2016, 10:39 PM
http://youtu.be/CYhHIe_UELM

The General I most admire from our History....:salute:

classic shit thru a goose :salute:

aboutime
02-24-2016, 10:57 PM
classic shit thru a goose :salute:


Loved it. I think Patton knew the Clinton's, Obama, Pelosi, Kerry, and Sanders long before their parents gave up on abortions!!!!:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
02-24-2016, 11:19 PM
classic shit thru a goose :salute:
A lot of people think Patton's death was no accident. That he was eliminated to make damn sure he did not run for the Presidency. And I think thats true.
Speed of the vehicle and he was the only one injured and that with a broken neck from basically a fender bender.
Plus he had firm ideas about how to deal with the Ruskies, which did not involve kissing their asses as FDR HAD DONE.

Greatest general in history lies between Hannibal, Alexander the Great, Napoleon and Robert E. Lee IMHO.--TYR

Perianne
02-24-2016, 11:35 PM
A lot of people think Patton's death was no accident. That he was eliminated to make damn sure he did not run for the Presidency. And I think thats true.
Speed of the vehicle and he was the only one injured and that with a broken neck from basically a fender bender.
Plus he had firm ideas about how to deal with the Ruskies, which did not involve kissing their asses as FDR HAD DONE.

Greatest general in history lies between Hannibal, Alexander the Great, Napoleon and Robert E. Lee IMHO.--TYR

There are other theories about Patton's death. One of them is his views on the Jews, which were negative.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
02-24-2016, 11:41 PM
There are other theories about Patton's death. One of them is his views on the Jews, which were negative.

That aside, the important consideration was the Second world power emerging from WW2, one that FDR INSURED BY STABBING CHURCHILL IN THE BACK NUMEROUS TIMES IN FAVOR HIS HIS "UNCLE JOE" AS HE CALLED JOSEPH STALIN..
FDR CAUSED THE DEATHS OF MILLIONS BY THAT SOCIALIST LOVE HE HAD AND HIS WIFE HAD.
I HOPE THEY BOTH ROT IN HELL.
Know this there is a reason the dems hail the bastard as a great hero.
I'd spit on FDR myself.....-TYR

Perianne
02-24-2016, 11:45 PM
That aside, the important consideration was the Second world power emerging from WW2, one that FDR INSURED BY STABBING CHURCHILL IN THE BACK NUMEROUS TIMES IN FAVOR HIS HIS "UNCLE JOE" AS HE CALLED JOSEPH STALIN..
FDR CAUSED THE DEATHS OF MILLIONS BY THAT SOCIALIST LOVE HE HAD AND HIS WIFE HAD.
I HOPE THEY BOTH ROT IN HELL.
Know this there is a reason the dems hail the bastard as a great hero.
I'd spit on FDR myself.....-TYR

FDR loved communists. He had them in his administration.

aboutime
02-25-2016, 02:42 PM
FDR loved communists. He had them in his administration.


Just a friendly reminder here. FDR and his wife were NEVER World War II GENERALS.

In fact. PATTON didn't exactly like FDR, or EISENHOWER. I have no idea why you brought up FDR in this.

aboutime
02-25-2016, 02:43 PM
A lot of people think Patton's death was no accident. That he was eliminated to make damn sure he did not run for the Presidency. And I think thats true.
Speed of the vehicle and he was the only one injured and that with a broken neck from basically a fender bender.
Plus he had firm ideas about how to deal with the Ruskies, which did not involve kissing their asses as FDR HAD DONE.

Greatest general in history lies between Hannibal, Alexander the Great, Napoleon and Robert E. Lee IMHO.--TYR


Another conspiracy theory that has NEVER been proven. Really?

Gunny
02-25-2016, 03:17 PM
Hard to pick one. Patton is a favorite of mine, but I think Rommel was the most brilliant. Even with the Allies choking his supply lines relentlessly, he still managed to pull off impressive wins. There's no telling how far he could have gone with proper supplies & reinforcements.

My least favorite would have to be Britain's Bernard Montgomery. He was an egotistical prick and Patton loathed him. However, I am aware that my opinion on him was formed reading American recounts of the war exclusively, so that may be a bit unfair.

Agreed. Patton was the best field general. The rest were politicians.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
02-25-2016, 03:46 PM
Another conspiracy theory that has NEVER been proven. Really?

Was Patton a WW2 general? yes
Was his name brought up? yes
Then my comment was on topic and after my reading of the incident of his death I say no way was his neck broken by that mere fender bender.
I believe if memory serves me well that a sergeant that was in that vehicle with him, declared on his deathbed that he broke Patton's neck on orders from superiors. Patton was then transported to a hospital and doing ok, after that he died suddenly.
Such a deathbed confession gave that theory a whole new level of validity.
Believe as you like, I believe he was murdered and always will.-Tyr

Perianne
02-25-2016, 03:48 PM
That aside, the important consideration was the Second world power emerging from WW2, one that FDR INSURED BY STABBING CHURCHILL IN THE BACK NUMEROUS TIMES IN FAVOR HIS HIS "UNCLE JOE" AS HE CALLED JOSEPH STALIN..
FDR CAUSED THE DEATHS OF MILLIONS BY THAT SOCIALIST LOVE HE HAD AND HIS WIFE HAD.
I HOPE THEY BOTH ROT IN HELL.
Know this there is a reason the dems hail the bastard as a great hero.
I'd spit on FDR myself.....-TYR


FDR loved communists. He had them in his administration.


Just a friendly reminder here. FDR and his wife were NEVER World War II GENERALS.

In fact. PATTON didn't exactly like FDR, or EISENHOWER. I have no idea why you brought up FDR in this.

It was in the flow of the conversation. Tyr brought up FDR, so I commented on it.

Gunny
02-25-2016, 03:53 PM
Was Patton a WW2 general? yes
Was his name brought up? yes
Then my comment was on topic and after my reading of the incident of his death I say no way was his neck broken by that mere fender bender.
I believe if memory serves me well that a sergeant that was in that vehicle with him, declared on his deathbed that he broke Patton's neck on orders from superiors.
Such a deathbed confession gave that theory a whole new level of validity.
Believe as you like, I believe he was murdered and always will.-Tyr

I think his neck got broke in a fender bender. Sh*t happens. No lame ass Sgt is going to break Patton's neck. Why people insist on pushing this kind of crap is beyond me. Oswald shot Kennedy. I could make that shot by the time I was 10.

It may suck that Patton died, but he wasn't going anywhere anyway. He was a war general. The kind you follow. The politician generals are the only ones that made a name post-war. Eisenhower polished a seat in DC before he was named Supreme Allied Commander. MacArthur the Megalomaniac was so in love with himself any case of reality swooped right over his head.

Generals like Patton and Stillwell never survived the war. Once the actual fighting was done, so were they.

Elessar
02-25-2016, 08:36 PM
Who was the greatest and wisest World War II general?

Patton, hands down. A battlefield leader and not a command center boss.

aboutime
02-25-2016, 08:46 PM
It was in the flow of the conversation. Tyr brought up FDR, so I commented on it.


I understand that. I was able to read it as well. But, the question of the TOPIC sort of got lost or missdirected by talking about FDR. No intention to offend, or upset the frail nerves here. But I have often been reminded to remain ON TOPIC more than I care to remember.
No harm, no foul??

Perianne
02-25-2016, 08:52 PM
I understand that. I was able to read it as well. But, the question of the TOPIC sort of got lost or missdirected by talking about FDR. No intention to offend, or upset the frail nerves here. But I have often been reminded to remain ON TOPIC more than I care to remember.
No harm, no foul??

No harm no foul. :)

namvet
02-25-2016, 10:34 PM
A lot of people think Patton's death was no accident. That he was eliminated to make damn sure he did not run for the Presidency. And I think thats true.
Speed of the vehicle and he was the only one injured and that with a broken neck from basically a fender bender.
Plus he had firm ideas about how to deal with the Ruskies, which did not involve kissing their asses as FDR HAD DONE.

Greatest general in history lies between Hannibal, Alexander the Great, Napoleon and Robert E. Lee IMHO.--TYR

he was scheduled to go home on my dad's cruiser

http://i63.tinypic.com/20qjqu1.jpg

the link (http://www.brigs.us/Phila/Patton-Philly.htm) shows a note from Patton to my dad's squadron for the gunfire support in Sicily


http://i68.tinypic.com/2cz7zap.jpg

after all he had been through and is killed in a fucking fender bender. something does stink there. years later when IKE died Patton's widow was asked to attend the funeral. in so many words she told em to shove it up their ass. funny they were all on the same side but hated each others guts :laugh:

CSM
02-26-2016, 07:06 AM
You have to remember that the times were far different in WWII than they are now. The generals we have today are far more interested in politics than they are in warfighting; more often than not, a successful career in today's military (for commissioned officers at least) result in a political appointment or a job as chairman of some board for defense contractors, etc. These days, field grade officers are mostly selected for their perfect mediocrity than they are for flawed exceptionalism. Patton was indeed a great field general, I am not so sure he would have made a great social worker....

Gunny
02-26-2016, 08:54 AM
You have to remember that the times were far different in WWII than they are now. The generals we have today are far more interested in politics than they are in warfighting; more often than not, a successful career in today's military (for commissioned officers at least) result in a political appointment or a job as chairman of some board for defense contractors, etc. These days, field grade officers are mostly selected for their perfect mediocrity than they are for flawed exceptionalism. Patton was indeed a great field general, I am not so sure he would have made a great social worker....

Patton as a social worker. It's too damned early for that shi*t, SgtMaj. :slap:

CSM
02-26-2016, 10:12 AM
Patton as a social worker. It's too damned early for that shi*t, SgtMaj. :slap:

Suck it up, ya pansy!

Gunny
03-02-2016, 08:50 AM
Suck it up, ya pansy!

Nobody calls me pansy this early in the morning. Not even the CSM. If y'all get out of the club and quit sucking down that lifer juice while we have to change the diapers on your boys, we'd probably be a lot happier.:laugh:

CSM
03-02-2016, 09:10 AM
Nobody calls me pansy this early in the morning. Not even the CSM. If y'all get out of the club and quit sucking down that lifer juice while we have to change the diapers on your boys, we'd probably be a lot happier.:laugh:

I get cranky when I don't have enough coffee .... nobody likes THAT!

NightTrain
03-02-2016, 09:51 AM
I get cranky when I don't have enough coffee .... nobody likes THAT!

I don't know about you guys, but I start nervously eyeballing my coffee stash like a crackhead on his last rock when we're down to a half bag.

Kathianne
03-02-2016, 09:59 AM
I don't know about you guys, but I start nervously eyeballing my coffee stash like a crackhead on his last rock when we're down to a half bag.

I only have run out of coffee once, when I was sick. However, at that point I still went out and got the coffee, just threw a coat over my pj's. I'm pretty sure that's why I remember it. LOL!

Perianne
03-02-2016, 10:09 AM
I think some of you like your coffee!

Perianne
03-02-2016, 11:24 AM
I think some of you like your coffee!

All this talk of coffee and I had to go make me some. I am going to take a hot bath and read my latest GREAT book, and drink some coffee. Mmmmm.