Mitt Romney should change his name to Irony.

[Black Diamond]

That's all.

[Kathianne]

That's all.

It's the new normal, release the tax returns. What will be interesting though is whether or not there's back up of 12 years or more of audits from the IRS-not one of his accounting firms.

[Black Diamond]

It's the new normal, release the tax returns. What will be interesting though is whether or not there's back up of 12 years or more of audits from the IRS-not one of his accounting firms.

It wasn't the new normal in 2012? Sure seemed to be.

[Black Diamond]

Next week: David Duke lectures trump on racial tolerance.

[fj1200]

That's all.

:rolleyes: Is this about tax returns? Did he not release his tax returns in a timely manner?

[jimnyc]

:rolleyes: Is this about tax returns? Did he not release his tax returns in a timely manner?

Timely? Not in my opinion. The Dems jumped all over him for not releasing enough of his information, and not fast enough. His claim back then was that they just wanted it to find reasons to be dishonest about.

[fj1200]

Timely? Not in my opinion. The Dems jumped all over him for not releasing enough of his information, and not fast enough. His claim back then was that they just wanted it to find reasons to be dishonest about.

He apparently released them in January of 2012 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2016/02/26/trump-wont-release-tax-returns-citing-irs-audit-is-it-a-legitimate-excuse/#7dfb7e9566d0) except for 2011 which was later because of an extension. IIRC the Dems jumped on him because of his effective tax rate.

[jimnyc]

He apparently released them in January of 2012 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2016/02/26/trump-wont-release-tax-returns-citing-irs-audit-is-it-a-legitimate-excuse/#7dfb7e9566d0) except for 2011 which was later because of an extension. IIRC the Dems jumped on him because of his effective tax rate.

And if I recall, he would only release 2 years worth, claiming that McCain set the precedent. Even the (R)'s were apparently pushing him to release - and this was in July.

-----

Democrats and Republicans alike are urging presumptive GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney to release more of his tax records. So far the former Massachusetts governor has put forth his returns for 2010 and an estimate for 2011 (he says he will release the full 2011 record as soon as it is ready). However, as President Obama's campaign continues to hammer Romney on his business and financial history, Romney's refusal to release more returns have some questioning whether he is trying to hide something.

That Romney is very wealthy is no secret. However the Obama campaign is slamming him on reports that he avoided paying taxes on much of his wealth by hiding it in offshore accounts and using other tax loopholes. Making matters worse is that Romney's own father, George Romney released 12 years of his tax returns when he ran for president in 1968. Obama released seven years of tax returns during 2008's campaign.

Republicans fear that by refusing to release his taxes, Romney is allowing Obama to control the narrative of the campaign, undermining the Romney platform that his business experience equips him to do a better job than the president has to create jobs and reboot the economy. They say that Romney's refusal to release more of his returns is distracting the country from Obama's lackluster economic record as president.

However, Romney defended his decision not to release the returns, telling Fox News that "the Obama people keep on wanting more and more and more—more things to pick through, more things for their opposition research to try and make a mountain out of and to distort and to be dishonest about."

http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/should-mitt-romney-release-more-of-his-tax-returns

[jimnyc]

He apparently released them in January of 2012 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2016/02/26/trump-wont-release-tax-returns-citing-irs-audit-is-it-a-legitimate-excuse/#7dfb7e9566d0) except for 2011 which was later because of an extension. IIRC the Dems jumped on him because of his effective tax rate.

Maybe that was the difference, maybe he released the 2 years in January but no more? I can't imagine the R's pushing at him unless it was something he was expected to release, and apparently the brouhaha was not over by July.

[jimnyc]

Another. And I agree, I do see the irony here.

Mitt Romney said Wednesday he finds the whole controversy over tax returns -- a huge source of grief for his campaign -- somewhat entertaining.

"It's kind of amusing," Romney told Columbus, Ohio, CBS affiliate WBNS. "I'm releasing two years of records as well as all that's legally required and, for that matter, I'm doing the same thing John McCain did when he ran for president four years ago, which is releasing two years of returns, and we'll see what time has to say about this."

Romney has maintained that he won't release more tax returns than what he has already -- his full return from 2010 and an estimated return from 2011 -- despite calls from even Republicans that he disclose more to the public to end the debate.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/18/mitt-romney-tax-return-amusing_n_1684635.html

[jimnyc]

Mitt also had an issue and releasing tax returns when he ran for governor.

[fj1200]

Maybe that was the difference, maybe he released the 2 years in January but no more? I can't imagine the R's pushing at him unless it was something he was expected to release, and apparently the brouhaha was not over by July.

There's a difference between two years and not at all.

[Bilgerat]

Timely? Not in my opinion. The Dems jumped all over him for not releasing enough of his information, and not fast enough. His claim back then was that they just wanted it to find reasons to be dishonest about.


THAT's on target!

[fj1200]

THAT's on target!

Reality certainly didn't stop Reid from lying about Romney's taxes.

[jimnyc]

There's a difference between two years and not at all.

Point is, he fought releasing them, and more than once, and also had issues doing so running for governor. I personally don't care, but someone as such shouldn't be attacking others, IMO. And Trump said he would in fact release his. So honestly, I don't see an issue at this point. I suppose so long as he releases 2 years worth by sometime in the summer, or hopefully earlier.

[Bilgerat]

Reality certainly didn't stop Reid from lying about Romney's taxes.

Which you can apparently do from the floor of the Senate without worrying about those pesky liability laws

[fj1200]

Point is, he fought releasing them, and more than once, and also had issues doing so running for governor. I personally don't care, but someone as such shouldn't be attacking others, IMO. And Trump said he would in fact release his. So honestly, I don't see an issue at this point. I suppose so long as he releases 2 years worth by sometime in the summer, or hopefully earlier.

The only thing interesting to me is the response by trump when someone dares challenge him.

[jimnyc]

The only thing interesting to me is the response by trump when someone dares challenge him.

And to me it matters when he doesn't sit back and politely explain things to someone who came out of nowhere looking for a fight. I understand that folks don't like him for the way he talks. But that's the reason so many others DO like him. It's better than an image in your head of someone being challenged and then bowing or giving in instantly.

But on a slightly different note, what 'facts' did Romney offer to show any type of wrongdoing by Trump?

[fj1200]

And to me it matters when he doesn't sit back and politely explain things to someone who came out of nowhere looking for a fight. I understand that folks don't like him for the way he talks. But that's the reason so many others DO like him. It's better than an image in your head of someone being challenged and then bowing or giving in instantly.

But on a slightly different note, what 'facts' did Romney offer to show any type of wrongdoing by Trump?

Did I say that there was wrong doing? Any argument about tax returns outside of what may be legally required is subject to politics and appearances. He has been very reluctant to offer his returns in the past going so far as to sue based on people's comments on them. Curious.

And nobody should bow or give in but to start with namecalling anyone who doesn't cowtow isn't required either. But some folks like that so...

On another note. If trump is going to "hire good people" who exactly is he going to hire if he's insulted and demeaned anyone who doesn't agree with him?

[Bilgerat]

On another note. If trump is going to "hire good people" who exactly is he going to hire if he's insulted and demeaned anyone who doesn't agree with him?


You mean the others on the stage?

Or perhaps, he's speaking of people who aren't in this for personal gains

[Black Diamond]

Since Romney didn't release his taxes until September, he should keep his loser hole shut.. Or at least 47% of it.

[Kathianne]

Since Romney didn't release his taxes until September, he should keep his loser hole shut.. Or at least 47% of it.
Really? Not according to AP:

http://news.yahoo.com/trump-excuse-not-releasing-tax-084421656.html


WASHINGTON (AP) — Donald Trump is sticking to his new explanation for why he can't yet release copies of his recent tax returns: The IRS is auditing him, as Trump says it has for the past 12 years.<section class="yom-mod " id="mediacontentrelatedstory" data-ylk="mid:mediacontentrelatedstory;mpos:1;elm:hdln;elmt: ct;cat:Related Stories;rspns:nav;t1:a3;t2:lst-ct;itc:0;sec:lst-ct;" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">






</section>


"No lawyer would ever allow you to release a tax return while you're being audited," the front-runner to be the Republican presidential nominee said in an interview Saturday on the Fox News Channel. "As soon as the audits are finished, I have no problem. There is no bombshell whatsoever."


Tax experts say that explanation has them scratching their heads — emboldening Trump critics who argue that the celebrity businessman-turned-candidate's personal finances remain unexamined.


The odds of being randomly audited every year for a decade is vanishingly small — and Trump's statement that "four or five" years of his tax returns are actively being audited raised even more questions.


The IRS's normal statute of limitations for an audit is three years — though that time frame is extended in instances of substantial underreporting and there is no time limit on reviews in the event of fraud.


The Trump campaign did not respond to questions from the AP about why the IRS would be auditing his tax returns past the normal three-year period.

...

Candidates Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio have pledged to release their own returns — an invariably unpleasant rite of passage for every major party nominee since 1976. When that time comes, Trump will stand alone among the major Republican candidates in having not yet produced them.


Despite Trump's claims to the contrary, the last Republican nominee — Mitt Romney — had long since released two years of tax returns by this time in the 2012 cycle.
...

[Black Diamond]

He released then in January 2012 according to this from the time:
http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/24/news/economy/Romney_tax_return/

I hadn't remembered him ever releasing them, to be honest.

[Black Diamond]

I need to investigate this more. What I remember is that he NEVER released them. But I need to investigate this Harry Reid crap.

[Black Diamond]

Reality certainly didn't stop Reid from lying about Romney's taxes.

That seems to be the situation.

[Kathianne]

That seems to be the situation.
Indeed. Yet you said what you said, without checking, why?

[Black Diamond]

Indeed. Yet you said what you said, without checking, why?

Are you going to give me a detention?

[Black Diamond]

I, black diamond, apologize to mitt Romney for incorrectly saying he didn't release his tax returns until September.

[Perianne]

I, black diamond, apologize to mitt Romney for incorrectly saying he didn't release his tax returns until September.

Shame on you, Black Diamond. No soup for you! :)

[Perianne]

Since Romney didn't release his taxes until September, he should keep his loser hole shut.. Or at least 47% of it.


Really? Not according to AP:

http://news.yahoo.com/trump-excuse-not-releasing-tax-084421656.html
@Black Diamond (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=2142), I remembered things in the same way that you did. Now the statistical probability that both of us were wrong is low. Very low. So, I looked further. Apparently Romney released some taxes early, but not his latest taxes (for which the media was pounding him).


This report is from September 21, 2012, just weeks before the election.


Mitt Romney revealed his 2011 tax returns Friday, along with topline information, including his effective tax rate, from the last 20 years.In a post to his campaign website, Romney turned over his entire 2011 tax return along with a notarized letter from his tax preparer that gives a "summary of tax rates from the Romneys' tax returns" since 1990.

Further, this (http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2012/09/21/did-mitt-romney-release-enough-of-his-tax-returns) US News report says:


Previously Romney had only released his 2010 tax returns, which opponents say is not sufficient.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/251019-romney-releases-20-year-average-tax-rate-but-only-2011-returns



P.S. Don't demand an apology from some who disrespect you on here. But I would apologize if I were hateful to you, sir.

[Kathianne]

I didn't 'disrespect' anyone. I don't apologize when I'm correct. I've apologized many times for being incorrect or for being mean beyond what someone else has done.

I've no problem with anyone's memory, that is a problem for any of us. My question is when something is presented as 'fact' and not 'as I remember.'

While most of Mitt's past returns were released closer to the elections, he'd released the majority of the two previous years due to primary candidate pressures-the rest under general election pressures. So the only thing being called for is fairness. As noted, it was an issue then and now.

[Kathianne]

This is the reason that there is a demand to see their tax returns. There are things that matter, as much as the public record of what they've done:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/did-trump-bankroll-planned-parenthood-abortionists/article/2001306


Did Trump Bankroll Planned Parenthood Abortionists?
Is that why he refuses to release his tax returns?
6:50 PM, FEB 27, 2016 | By JOHN MCCORMACK (http://www.weeklystandard.com/author/john-mccormack)

...

And lest you think that only Trump is being picked on, by the 'right'; take a look at this zinger from the NYT on Rubio:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/us/politics/marco-rubio-pushed-for-immigration-reform-with-conservative-media.html



Marco Rubio Pushed for Immigration Reform With Conservative MediaBy JASON HOROWITZ<time class="dateline" datetime="2016-02-27" itemprop="datePublished" content="2016-02-27" style="font-size: 0.6875rem; line-height: 0.75rem; font-family: nyt-cheltenham-sh, georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); margin-left: 12px;">FEB. 27, 2016

</time>...

[Abbey Marie]

@Black Diamond (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=2142), I remembered things in the same way that you did. Now the statistical probability that both of us were wrong is low. Very low. So, I looked further. Apparently Romney released some taxes early, but not his latest taxes (for which the media was pounding him).


This report is from September 21, 2012, just weeks before the election.



Further, this (http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2012/09/21/did-mitt-romney-release-enough-of-his-tax-returns) US News report says:



http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/251019-romney-releases-20-year-average-tax-rate-but-only-2011-returns



P.S. Don't demand an apology from some who disrespect you on here. But I would apologize if I were hateful to you, sir.

I recall being called snarky for much less. Sigh.

[fj1200]

You mean the others on the stage?

Or perhaps, he's speaking of people who aren't in this for personal gains

Everyone is in it for personal gains. But if he is a Republican he'll denounce anyone who doesn't kowtow and then he'll turn around and hire them? And when he does hire those smart people I'm sure he'll hire people he knows who likely come from the Ivies, the elitist bastion.


@Black Diamond (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=2142), I remembered things in the same way that you did. Now the statistical probability that both of us were wrong is low. Very low. So, I looked further. Apparently Romney released some taxes early, but not his latest taxes (for which the media was pounding him).

He apparently couldn't release his taxes when he filed an extension.

[jimnyc]

Everyone is in it for personal gains. But if he is a Republican he'll denounce anyone who doesn't kowtow and then he'll turn around and hire them? And when he does hire those smart people I'm sure he'll hire people he knows who likely come from the Ivies, the elitist bastion.



He apparently couldn't release his taxes when he filed an extension.

But Romney still didn't release taxes as other presidents did in the past 30 years or so, only 2 years and then delays. IMO, such a person should be the last to chastise others about releasing returns - or maybe he should demand that Trump release only the past 2 years worth.

[Perianne]

But Romney still didn't release taxes as other presidents did in the past 30 years or so, only 2 years and then delays. IMO, such a person should be the last to chastise others about releasing returns - or maybe he should demand that Trump release only the past 2 years worth.

Romney has turned into an establishment poopoo head.

[jimnyc]

Romney has turned into an establishment poopoo head.

Suppose someone runs as an independent. And then we have reform, green, libertarian and other parties. What would the nation think if folks went out of their way to destroy such campaigns. And I don't mean running against them and tossing out zingers - but like I said, working in back rooms and trying underhanded things in order to eliminate the front runner.

There is talk of a lot of damage if Trump wins. But I think there would be much more damage if the republican party eats one of their own, whether they like him or not.

And I was against this in the beginning, and said he would never do so, and that I would support him if he did - but if they do in fact play games, I wouldn't blame Trump for going 3rd party and I would support him. Of course that would likely give Hillary the election, but the fault would land squarely on the shoulders of the RNC elites.

[Perianne]

Suppose someone runs as an independent. And then we have reform, green, libertarian and other parties. What would the nation think if folks went out of their way to destroy such campaigns. And I don't mean running against them and tossing out zingers - but like I said, working in back rooms and trying underhanded things in order to eliminate the front runner.

There is talk of a lot of damage if Trump wins. But I think there would be much more damage if the republican party eats one of their own, whether they like him or not.

And I was against this in the beginning, and said he would never do so, and that I would support him if he did - but if they do in fact play games, I wouldn't blame Trump for going 3rd party and I would support him. Of course that would likely give Hillary the election, but the fault would land squarely on the shoulders of the RNC elites.

I don't think the RNC would care. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face type of thing. How dare anyone outside the establishment secure their nomination!!!

[Kathianne]

Suppose someone runs as an independent. And then we have reform, green, libertarian and other parties. What would the nation think if folks went out of their way to destroy such campaigns. And I don't mean running against them and tossing out zingers - but like I said, working in back rooms and trying underhanded things in order to eliminate the front runner.

There is talk of a lot of damage if Trump wins. But I think there would be much more damage if the republican party eats one of their own, whether they like him or not.

And I was against this in the beginning, and said he would never do so, and that I would support him if he did - but if they do in fact play games, I wouldn't blame Trump for going 3rd party and I would support him. Of course that would likely give Hillary the election, but the fault would land squarely on the shoulders of the RNC elites.

I agree. It may surprise some that I don't like Trump, however I do think that any backroom nonsense will only further destroy what was once a great party. I think the results of the current election are unfortunate, though I believe that the rules have to be followed and the will of the people that have voted and will vote for him need to be honored.

I and my ilk have to find our own alternatives, undermining the results is not one of them, for myself at least. Speaking against the candidate, posting negative things about him-even calling him a poopy head or something, are acceptable. Trying to negate actual results? No.

[Perianne]

I agree. It may surprise some that I don't like Trump, however I do think that any backroom nonsense will only further destroy what was once a great party. I think the results of the current election are unfortunate, though I believe that the rules have to be followed and the will of the people that have voted and will vote for him need to be honored.

I and my ilk have to find our own alternatives, undermining the results is not one of them, for myself at least. Speaking against the candidate, posting negative things about him-even calling him a poopy head or something, are acceptable. Trying to negate actual results? No.

I am to the point that I wonder if it ever was a great party. I know that is very negative of me, though. It reminds me of a marriage that has gone wrong and the participants can't remember when things were good.

[jimnyc]

Damn, even Harry Reid is now jumping on Romney, echoing what is rattling inside my half empty egg of a head:

-----

Washington (CNN)Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid says he's stunned to see 2012 Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney demanding Donald Trump's tax returns.

"All I know, I can't imagine Romney having the gall coming after anybody's returns. Let's look at his," Reid told CNN on Thursday.

Romney launched an ironic attack on Trump during an appearance on Fox News on Wednesday, saying he believes there's a "bombshell" in Trump's tax returns.

Four years ago, it was Reid making similar claims about Romney.

Romney released a 20-year summary of his tax liabilities from 1990 through 2009, and his tax returns from 2010 and 2011. But he did not release additional returns.

"He never gave us his tax returns. Who was the brainchild who got him to do that?" Reid said. "Romney never gave us his tax returns. He did not -- he gave us his summary, he didn't give us our tax returns."

Romney has not endorsed a Republican candidate, but his decision to publicly hit Trump -- prompting sharp rebukes from the 2016 GOP front-runner -- reflects the unease of establishment Republicans with the real estate mogul's dominance in the primary thus far.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/25/politics/harry-reid-mitt-romney-trump-taxes/index.html?eref=rss_politics

[jimnyc]

And lastly, to show that Romney should be the last one blabbing about Trump:

-----

Due to pressure from political rivals during the Republican primary campaign, Romney released an incomplete 2010 tax return[206] in early January 2012, along with an estimate of the 2011 return.[25][26] During the presidential campaign, he declined to disclose additional returns citing the matter as a distraction from more important issues, despite calls to do so by Democrats and several notable Republicans.[207]

Republicans who have urged Romney to release his tax returns include former Mississippi governor Haley Barbour, Michael Steele and Bill Kristol. George Will said "The cost of not releasing the returns are clear. Therefore, he must have calculated that there are higher costs in releasing them." Republican strategist Matthew Dowd said, "There's obviously something there, because if there was nothing there, he would say, ‘Have at it.' So there's obviously something there that compromises what he said in the past about something."[208][209]

In response to claims made to the contrary, Romney said that he never paid less than 13% in taxes over the past 10 years.[210]

Romney stated in a Parade magazine interview that he doesn't want to release his tax returns because he would like to keep his tithing to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints private,[211] though he has publicly released his tithing percentages for 2010 (7%) and 2011 (12%).[212]

For their 2011 tax returns, the Romneys paid nearly $2 million in taxes on an income of $13.7 million for an effective tax rate of 14.1%. They gave almost $4 million to charity, but only claimed $2.25 million in deductions in order to maintain his campaign pledge to pay at least 13% of his income in federal taxes.[213][214] The summary prepared by PwC stated the Romney's effective tax rate paid had averaged 20.2% from 1990 to 2009

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitt_Romney_presidential_campaign,_2012#Tax_return s

[NightTrain]

In response to claims made to the contrary, Romney said that he never paid less than 13% in taxes over the past 10 years.[210]


I'm doing something severely wrong. My taxes are a hell of a lot higher than 13%.

[jimnyc]

I'm doing something severely wrong. My taxes are a hell of a lot higher than 13%.

I'm no expert on my taxes, but it's always been closer to 30%, or higher, no? Don't even get me started on property taxes, but that's because NY sucks.