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Abbey
05-11-2016, 11:53 AM
When I was recruited by the Army in 3rd year law school, I was told I would go in at the rank of Captain. I did not join, but I sometimes wondered how non-commissioned officers would feel about someone so young and inexperienced militarily being bestowed that rank.

The great respect I see here for our CSM reminded me of this. So, I guess my question is, what generally is the relationship between comms and non-comms (pardon me if the lingo is wrong; I'm trying my best!). Is there real mutual respect, or is it just a case-by-case basis?

:salute:

CSM
05-11-2016, 12:11 PM
When I was recruited by the Army in 3rd year law school, I was told I would go in at the rank of Captain. I did not join, but I sometimes wondered how non-commissioned officers would feel about someone so young and inexperienced militarily being bestowed that rank.

The great respect I see here for our CSM reminded me of this. So, I guess my question is, what generally is the relationship between comms and non-comms (pardon me if the lingo is wrong; I'm trying my best!). Is there real mutual respect, or is it just a case-by-case basis?

:salute:

There are several instances where a particular skill set starts at a higher commissioned rank (doctors, chaplains, lawyers, etc.). Those folks usually are respected for their profession rather than their rank and are seldom anywhere near combat operations (doctors and nurses sometimes excepted). I have never seen nor heard of any officer given a combat or combat support command until they have gone "through the ranks".

True respect (as others will tell you) is earned. Developing a professional relationship between officer and NCO is sometimes tough to do but when it happens, it is awesome. Senior NCOs will normally carry out orders for two reasons .... it is the right thing to do (and it makes sense) and gets the mission accomplished or they are about to teach an officer a lesson. NCOs are not mindless robots. They will certainly tell an officer (especially a junior officer) when they are screwing up.... it's part of their job!

I have no idea what the relationship between officer and NCO looks like in Medical outfits or for Staff Judge Advocate organizations. In most field units, Officer/NCO relations are mostly professional (there are exceptions). I do know that in really effective units (company sized, at least) the commander (usually a Captain) and the First Sergeant have a strong, mutual respect. Much trust between them as well. Occasionally, they remain friends long after one or the other leaves the unit.

At the extreme, if a commissioned officer is really, really bad (I have seen one or two in my career) they eventually will be eliminated one way or the other.

Abbey
05-11-2016, 12:29 PM
Thank you, CSM. Your answer is very helpful.

Nothing like a perceived unearned position to make people dislike you. I'm glad that it generally works out well. Knowing myself, I would have been very intimidated for a while in that situation.

CSM
05-11-2016, 12:37 PM
Truthfully, it is not all that different from relationships between professionals in the civilian world. The lingo and job may be different but there are basic elements that earn folks respect from others regardless of position: Competence, Integrity, Fairness and Loyalty when practiced in equal measures will earn that respect. Sticking a pin on your collar and demanding respect will get a person no respect at all. Hopefully, both NCOs and Commissioned Officers are taught that long before they are placed in positions of responsibility.

Elessar
05-11-2016, 01:58 PM
When I was recruited by the Army in 3rd year law school, I was told I would go in at the rank of Captain. I did not join, but I sometimes wondered how non-commissioned officers would feel about someone so young and inexperienced militarily being bestowed that rank.

The great respect I see here for our CSM reminded me of this. So, I guess my question is, what generally is the relationship between comms and non-comms (pardon me if the lingo is wrong; I'm trying my best!). Is there real mutual respect, or is it just a case-by-case basis?

:salute:

That is a very good and honest question.

I think CSM nailed an accurate answer well. Some things may very from branch to branch, but the
basics he mentioned are key to the whole concept. Respect is earned and not just assumed. An Officer,
in front of the troops, has to maintain a sense of dignity and concern for that group of people.

The NCO's in any branch are the true leaders because of knowledge, ability, and experience. Officers are
pretty much managers, and if wise enough, let those senior NCO's run the show once marching orders
have been given.

As an E-5 and E-6 I was in charge of many things with oversight by an E-7 or E-8. We, in some cases, had
a junior officer that was designated as our 'boss'. When I was on the ship as an E-5, the Commanding Officer
had a meeting with all of the Deck Dept. Petty Officers - Boatswain's Mates and Gunner's Mates. He made it
very clear that one important purpose we had was to not only instruct and guide the junior enlisteds, but
the junior officers as well. I barked back at many junior officers that crossed over the line arrogantly.
In the Command Centers I worked in...Us and the officers largely treated each other as equals.

Gunny
05-11-2016, 05:10 PM
That is a very good and honest question.

I think @CSM (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=36) nailed an accurate answer well. Some things may very from branch to branch, but the
basics he mentioned are key to the whole concept. Respect is earned and not just assumed. An Officer,
in front of the troops, has to maintain a sense of dignity and concern for that group of people.

The NCO's in any branch are the true leaders because of knowledge, ability, and experience. Officers are
pretty much managers, and if wise enough, let those senior NCO's run the show once marching orders
have been given.

As an E-5 and E-6 I was in charge of many things with oversight by an E-7 or E-8. We, in some cases, had
a junior officer that was designated as our 'boss'. When I was on the ship as an E-5, the Commanding Officer
had a meeting with all of the Deck Dept. Petty Officers - Boatswain's Mates and Gunner's Mates. He made it
very clear that one important purpose we had was to not only instruct and guide the junior enlisteds, but
the junior officers as well. I barked back at many junior officers that crossed over the line arrogantly.
In the Command Centers I worked in...Us and the officers largely treated each other as equals.

Why is it some people just don't get that simple concept? This ain't pro wrestling. You walk into the room the whole rest of the world could care less. You take command and earn the respect and you get it from me. Otherwise, as CSM said, I'll tell your little bumblebee butt off in a minute. I don't need any medals. I'm not even sure where mine are. And I'm damned sure not getting anyone killed so I can add to the collection.

And yes, it's our job to train once we become senior. I've had officers that listened and I've had officers that thought they were God (usually the ring knockers). Improper or not, I flat ass-chewed my ring knocker Capt on the Boxer my last deployment. I knew it was over then and there and still just wouldn't stop. I ripped him a new ass. :laugh: I couldn't stand the way he was treating the troops.

I prefer to remember the good officers I served under. They led from the front. And you know what the good officers have in common? They turn around and ask "Gunny, what do you think?" The decision is theirs. But they at least listen to "why not". Then they look at you say, "Git'r done, Gunny".

Elessar
05-11-2016, 07:15 PM
Why is it some people just don't get that simple concept?

I prefer to remember the good officers I served under. They led from the front. And you know what the good officers have in common? They turn around and ask "Gunny, what do you think?" The decision is theirs. But they at least listen to "why not". Then they look at you say, "Git'r done, Gunny".

It is funny in a way for some, but as an Active Duty SAR Controller - then a GS-11 SAR Controller,
there were many instances where I disagreed with things the C.O., X.O., and OPS Boss would say
or propose. It is amazing that the wisest of them would slow down and listen to me.

That is a demonstration of Mutual Respect. They trusted my knowledge, judgement and ability.
I always told our newer Command Center folks to never fear to pipe up if you do not agree with
an initial decision. Differences of opinion could be resolved later. Get the mission done first!

Gunny
05-11-2016, 07:25 PM
It is funny in a way for some, but as an Active Duty SAR Controller - then a GS-11 SAR Controller,
there were many instances where I disagreed with things the C.O., X.O., and OPS Boss would say
or propose. It is amazing that the wisest of them would slow down and listen to me.

That is a demonstration of Mutual Respect. They trusted my knowledge, judgement and ability.
I always told our newer Command Center folks to never fear to pipe up if you do not agree with
an initial decision. Differences of opinion could be resolved later. Get the mission done first!

You used to do SAR? Screw THAT noise. Give me a rifle and put my boots on the ground.

aboutime
05-11-2016, 08:28 PM
CSM said it all, the way it should have been said.

As gunny, and others may verify. Even WE NON-COMS with E's before our number eventually earn the respect of Commissioned Officers as time, experience, and proven ability to perform will show.

As a Communications type...Navy Radioman (which no longer exists). I personally enjoyed the constant, endless training required to perform my duties, both ashore, and afloat. Communications was a mainstay of the entire ship operation in many respects. Security was enforced, and the Commissioned Officers, from the CO, XO, OPS, COMM, and ENGINEERING departments relied on, and required constant accurate information. That is how I enjoyed the mutual respect of both COMM, and NON-COMM officers. It is important in all respects for the maintenance of Discipline, and UCMJ in action.

Gunny
05-11-2016, 08:39 PM
CSM said it all, the way it should have been said.

As gunny, and others may verify. Even WE NON-COMS with E's before our number eventually earn the respect of Commissioned Officers as time, experience, and proven ability to perform will show.

As a Communications type...Navy Radioman (which no longer exists). I personally enjoyed the constant, endless training required to perform my duties, both ashore, and afloat. Communications was a mainstay of the entire ship operation in many respects. Security was enforced, and the Commissioned Officers, from the CO, XO, OPS, COMM, and ENGINEERING departments relied on, and required constant accurate information. That is how I enjoyed the mutual respect of both COMM, and NON-COMM officers. It is important in all respects for the maintenance of Discipline, and UCMJ in action.

I meant to make a thread on this and have just been to busy. Everyone thinks us grunts are all heroes but the term "it takes a village to raise a child" comes to mind. You put us out in the field and we need food, water. We want our mail and our pay. And when I call back to the ship for close air support, I ain't talking to Christopher Robbin. I'm talking to the comm geek on the ship. My pay comes from some desk jockey and my chow comes from a cook. My supplies come from some supply guy in a warehouse.

Without any of them, we'd be in a boat without a paddle. I have the utmost respect for support personnel. We couldn't do a damned thing without them.

Elessar
05-12-2016, 12:38 AM
You used to do SAR? Screw THAT noise. Give me a rifle and put my boots on the ground.

In all...26 of my full 37 years was in SAR and Maritime Law Enforcement.
The rest was as an instructor in basic training, or as Security / MAA force.

Elessar
05-12-2016, 12:39 AM
CSM said it all, the way it should have been said.

As gunny, and others may verify. Even WE NON-COMS with E's before our number eventually earn the respect of Commissioned Officers as time, experience, and proven ability to perform will show.

As a Communications type...Navy Radioman (which no longer exists). I personally enjoyed the constant, endless training required to perform my duties, both ashore, and afloat. Communications was a mainstay of the entire ship operation in many respects. Security was enforced, and the Commissioned Officers, from the CO, XO, OPS, COMM, and ENGINEERING departments relied on, and required constant accurate information. That is how I enjoyed the mutual respect of both COMM, and NON-COMM officers. It is important in all respects for the maintenance of Discipline, and UCMJ in action.

Super, AT...just Super!:salute:

Elessar
05-12-2016, 12:43 AM
Without any of them, we'd be in a boat without a paddle. I have the utmost respect for support personnel. We couldn't do a damned thing without them.

Danm...you got that right. Support is vital from those not on the front lines of the effort.

Elessar
05-12-2016, 12:50 AM
You used to do SAR? Screw THAT noise. Give me a rifle and put my boots on the ground.

SAR was a calling. I'd been a lifeguard since I was 14 - Boy Scouts and Red Cross.

It seemed a natural and logical progression.

A Hall of Fame Swim Coach wanted me to quit the football team in college,
Steve Mahaney. Only 1 of his varsity swimmers could beat me in the 50 or 100 meter
freestyle.

I swam with Michael Phelps' Father, who was a nasty strong safety on our football
team in college. He was damn near as fast as me in the water, and my 40 speed on land
was better than his. 4.5 40 was not shabby at all.

darin
05-12-2016, 02:19 AM
I didn't see it elsewhere - sorry if I missed it -

But you wouldn't have gone is AS a Captain, but you would have been fast-tracked to Captain by about six months - maybe a year tops. Three years after making Captain they are eligible for Major. Three years after that, Lieutenant Colonel. And - yes, three years later, Colonel. Making Colonel in as little as 13 years is pretty fast. I'm unsure of the promotion rates - but those are the eligibility requirements, best I can remember. Non JAG Officers probably take 20 years to make Colonel. As an aside, Civilians in pay grade GS15 are the civilian equivalent to Colonel in terms of responsibility and authority. This chart shows the approximate relationship between civilian pay grade and Military Rank.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cviaI1JNloE/Th-YEEjqPTI/AAAAAAAAAFU/dRMZdzlTcX4/s1600/CS-FS+to+Military+Rankings.jpg

Couple caveats with that. It's not uncommon civilians of, say GS12, to work for Majors - even though they are of about the same responsibility level (we're talking ONLY staff work - NOT Command when I say responsibility). Army Colonels who command Brigades in some fields have GS15 deputies. And the GS15 Deputy can have other GS15s who work for her/him.

Another issue - If I recall correctly a GS7 can be the boss of the boss of a Senior NCO (Say, E7). GS7s are fairly low-level employees, and often are entry-level type positions. Clerks and guards and what-not. I don't like that aspect. Take the average E8 (Master Sergeant or 1st Sergeant) - and she or he is a veritable expert in their field with close to 20 years experience. Having them work for a GS9 sorta bugs me, situation dependent.


Couple other things: Captain is not a 'high' rank. I say that not to disrespect Army Officers. No NCO would ever feel any weirdness about seeing a fresh-from-law school JAG Captain because they know the deal. That's how JAG and Chaplaincy work. One reason JAG officers are sent to Captain pretty quickly is to carry more credibility and authority with Company-Grade Commanders; other Captains (although the commander of HQ Company, I Corps was a Major). If JAG officers started out in the normal track, they'd make Captain in probably 4-5 years (off the top of my head). Imagine a Lieutenant JAG officer trying to counsel or reprimand a Company Commander (Generally Captains)? Could get awkward if the Captain tried to pull rank. Being a Captain gives the JAG Officer the best shot at avoiding those types of scenarios.

Abbey
05-12-2016, 08:30 AM
In all...26 of my full 37 years was in SAR and Maritime Law Enforcement.
The rest was as an instructor in basic training, or as Security / MAA force.

You, and the future King of England, right?

Gunny
05-12-2016, 12:13 PM
SAR was a calling. I'd been a lifeguard since I was 14 - Boy Scouts and Red Cross.

It seemed a natural and logical progression.

A Hall of Fame Swim Coach wanted me to quit the football team in college,
Steve Mahaney. Only 1 of his varsity swimmers could beat me in the 50 or 100 meter
freestyle.

I swam with Michael Phelps' Father, who was a nasty strong safety on our football
team in college. He was damn near as fast as me in the water, and my 40 speed on land
was better than his. 4.5 40 was not shabby at all.

I'm WSQ. I think I could swim before I could walk. They wanted me to go WSSI and I said NO. If you've ever been in the swim tank at MCRD San Diego, you'd know why. I don't know why they don't cut to the chase there and just fill the pool with Clorox.

And I hated fast roping onto a ship. I ain't dangling on a cable in 30 foot seas to save some jerk who shouldn't be there and probably going to try and drown me. No thanks. All yours. :)

Gunny
05-12-2016, 12:18 PM
I didn't see it elsewhere - sorry if I missed it -

But you wouldn't have gone is AS a Captain, but you would have been fast-tracked to Captain by about six months - maybe a year tops. Three years after making Captain they are eligible for Major. Three years after that, Lieutenant Colonel. And - yes, three years later, Colonel. Making Colonel in as little as 13 years is pretty fast. I'm unsure of the promotion rates - but those are the eligibility requirements, best I can remember. Non JAG Officers probably take 20 years to make Colonel. As an aside, Civilians in pay grade GS15 are the civilian equivalent to Colonel in terms of responsibility and authority. This chart shows the approximate relationship between civilian pay grade and Military Rank.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cviaI1JNloE/Th-YEEjqPTI/AAAAAAAAAFU/dRMZdzlTcX4/s1600/CS-FS+to+Military+Rankings.jpg

Couple caveats with that. It's not uncommon civilians of, say GS12, to work for Majors - even though they are of about the same responsibility level (we're talking ONLY staff work - NOT Command when I say responsibility). Army Colonels who command Brigades in some fields have GS15 deputies. And the GS15 Deputy can have other GS15s who work for her/him.

Another issue - If I recall correctly a GS7 can be the boss of the boss of a Senior NCO (Say, E7). GS7s are fairly low-level employees, and often are entry-level type positions. Clerks and guards and what-not. I don't like that aspect. Take the average E8 (Master Sergeant or 1st Sergeant) - and she or he is a veritable expert in their field with close to 20 years experience. Having them work for a GS9 sorta bugs me, situation dependent.


Couple other things: Captain is not a 'high' rank. I say that not to disrespect Army Officers. No NCO would ever feel any weirdness about seeing a fresh-from-law school JAG Captain because they know the deal. That's how JAG and Chaplaincy work. One reason JAG officers are sent to Captain pretty quickly is to carry more credibility and authority with Company-Grade Commanders; other Captains (although the commander of HQ Company, I Corps was a Major). If JAG officers started out in the normal track, they'd make Captain in probably 4-5 years (off the top of my head). Imagine a Lieutenant JAG officer trying to counsel or reprimand a Company Commander (Generally Captains)? Could get awkward if the Captain tried to pull rank. Being a Captain gives the JAG Officer the best shot at avoiding those types of scenarios.

I couldn't stand civil service people. They would drive me up the wall with their dumbass paperwork. Screw the mission. You have to fill out all 5 of these forms. Sure thing, bubba. I got all freakin' day. :rolleyes:

Elessar
05-12-2016, 12:56 PM
I'm WSQ. I think I could swim before I could walk. They wanted me to go WSSI and I said NO. If you've ever been in the swim tank at MCRD San Diego, you'd know why. I don't know why they don't cut to the chase there and just fill the pool with Clorox.

And I hated fast roping onto a ship. I ain't dangling on a cable in 30 foot seas to save some jerk who shouldn't be there and probably going to try and drown me. No thanks. All yours. :)

Our CG Rescue Swimmers have some balls!

I did not go for ASM / AST because I hate flying!:laugh:

Gunny
05-12-2016, 01:04 PM
Our CG Rescue Swimmers have some balls!

I did not go for ASM / AST because I hate flying!:laugh:

Bubba, I could give you some phone numbers to attest to me and flying. I had to just detach myself and concentrate on the mission. And I'll drive to your house before I'll get on one these rickety ass air buses they have now. For one thing, I don't fit. I have to sit the whole flight at an angle because of my shoulders.

But when you're a jarhead and they put you on the bird the last damned thing you're going to do is look weak in front of the other Marines. Ain't happening. I'd rather die. But if you come looking for volunteers? Pass me right the f*ck on by.

THAT should actually be "Gibb's Rule # !". NEVER volunteer.

Elessar
05-12-2016, 01:20 PM
THAT should actually be "Gibb's Rule # !". NEVER volunteer.

Dad told me before I went to boot camp - Never Volunteer!

Little did know that at times I would be Volen-chosen!:laugh:

Damn BM1 CC ( DI for you others) stood right in my chest looking
me square in the eyes, and said "YOU are going to be MY RCC
( Recruit Company Commander ), RIGHT?"

Ummm...how do you say NO to that?

darin
05-13-2016, 01:55 AM
I couldn't stand civil service people. They would drive me up the wall with their dumbass paperwork. Screw the mission. You have to fill out all 5 of these forms. Sure thing, bubba. I got all freakin' day. :rolleyes:

Every Army Civilian in my group would take a bullet to protect the Soldiers we serve, and serve with.

CSM
05-13-2016, 06:15 AM
Every Army Civilian in my group would take a bullet to protect the Soldiers we serve, and serve with.

I know many Army civilians; many are former active duty. The vast majority are dedicated, competent and efficient and care more about the mission and soldiers than some of the supposed leaders.

Gunny
05-13-2016, 09:24 AM
Dad told me before I went to boot camp - Never Volunteer!

Little did know that at times I would be Volen-chosen!:laugh:

Damn BM1 CC ( DI for you others) stood right in my chest looking
me square in the eyes, and said "YOU are going to be MY RCC
( Recruit Company Commander ), RIGHT?"

Ummm...how do you say NO to that?

:laugh:

Here's one for ya: Battalion CO ... you're going to play on my football team this year, right LCpl?

Well I got married and moved to town and have been busy, sir.

Weren't you just on MY meritorious Corporal board Friday?

Yes, sir.

You're going to play football on my team this year, right?

Well, if you put it THAT way :laugh:

Gunny
05-13-2016, 09:29 AM
I know many Army civilians; many are former active duty. The vast majority are dedicated, competent and efficient and care more about the mission and soldiers than some of the supposed leaders.

My experience with civilians was in DC. It's a good ol' boy network from Hell for blacks and/or women. I got paid less money to do their work and mine. And I hate offices anyway.

CSM
05-13-2016, 09:47 AM
My experience with civilians was in DC. It's a good ol' boy network from Hell for blacks and/or women. I got paid less money to do their work and mine. And I hate offices anyway.

Like any other profession there are some great and some terrible players at work. Fortunately, most of the civilians I worked with are "field" guys. I don't have much use for the paper shufflers and bean counters (though I suppose they serve some necessary function).

Gunny
05-13-2016, 10:24 AM
Like any other profession there are some great and some terrible players at work. Fortunately, most of the civilians I worked with are "field" guys. I don't have much use for the paper shufflers and bean counters (though I suppose they serve some necessary function).

DC was my "reward" for a successful tour on the drill field. They were doing me a favor because it meant I didn't have to deploy. Since I had suddenly become a single parent, I reluctantly accepted. It was torture. :laugh:

CSM
05-13-2016, 10:29 AM
DC was my "reward" for a successful tour on the drill field. They were doing me a favor because it meant I didn't have to deploy. Since I had suddenly become a single parent, I reluctantly accepted. It was torture. :laugh:

I hate DC...too close to the flagpole

Gunny
05-13-2016, 10:34 AM
I hate DC...too close to the flagpole

I don't know know why they thought they were doing me a favor. You should have seen the look on the Master Gunny's face. You? DC? I think he didn't stop laughing all day. I think he mentioned bull in a china shop or something like that. :laugh:

Bilgerat
05-13-2016, 10:38 AM
Dad told me before I went to boot camp - Never Volunteer!

Little did know that at times I would be Volen-chosen!:laugh:

Damn BM1 CC ( DI for you others) stood right in my chest looking
me square in the eyes, and said "YOU are going to be MY RCC
( Recruit Company Commander ), RIGHT?"

Ummm...how do you say NO to that?


:laugh:

I remember BM1 Rarick going down the line at formation.

1st one he came to he asked "Do you like me"? The lad answered "Sir yes sir". WHAT?? You like me? Liking leads to lovin and lovin leads to f#@kin, YOU WANNA F#@K ME BOY??? RUN YOU USELESS MAGGOT!

2nd one same question, only the answer changed to "Sir no Sir" WHAT?? You don't like me? I'm a nice guy, the Coast Guard trusts me with maggots like you and YOU DON'T LIKE ME?? RUN YOU USELESS MAGGOT!

Well, I'm number 3 so when I get the question I just took off running. BM1 stops me on the first pass and asks why I took off. My answer? "Sir, this recruit saw no acceptable answer to the CC's question, Sir".

His response, "You're correct recruit, keep running".

And that's no shit!

Elessar
05-13-2016, 01:45 PM
:laugh:

I remember BM1 Rarick going down the line at formation.
<snip>
Well, I'm number 3 so when I get the question I just took off running. BM1 stops me on the first pass and asks why I took off. My answer? "Sir, this recruit saw no acceptable answer to the CC's question, Sir".

His response, "You're correct recruit, keep running".

And that's no shit!

Love it! That was using your head!:laugh:

BM1 Gary Bohr was mine. He stood an inch shorter than me, but had a huge
barrel chest of close to 48 inches and a waist of around 32 inches. He had been
on river tenders most of his career, and previously was in the P'Burgh Steelers
rookie camp. We went to Nav Rules School (Rules of the Road) together about
3 years later and he was a riot to be around.

Damn Good Times!

Gunny
05-13-2016, 03:46 PM
Love it! That was using your head!:laugh:

BM1 Gary Bohr was mine. He stood an inch shorter than me, but had a huge
barrel chest of close to 48 inches and a waist of around 32 inches. He had been
on river tenders most of his career, and previously was in the P'Burgh Steelers
rookie camp. We went to Nav Rules School (Rules of the Road) together about
3 years later and he was a riot to be around.

Damn Good Times!

Okay y'all can make fun of me now. You mean Boatswain's Mate? I don't know how to spell the abbreviation. I know they're called phonetically "Buzun's mate". I was smart. I called everyone Sailor, Petty Officer, Chief or sir. I can identify the ranks by the stripes.

Bilgerat
05-13-2016, 05:10 PM
Okay y'all can make fun of me now. You mean Boatswain's Mate? I don't know how to spell the abbreviation. I know they're called phonetically "Buzun's mate". I was smart. I called everyone Sailor, Petty Officer, Chief or sir. I can identify the ranks by the stripes.


Yeppers, BM = Bosn's Mate. I started out as a BT (Boiler Tech), but the rate was absorbed into the MK (Machinery Tech) so I was sent to Yorktown Va back in 1974 for schooling. The easiest way to distinguish between the two is BM's are "Deck" and MK's are Engineering (or deckies and snipes)

Of course, there's always been a sort of inter-service "competition" between deckies and snipes. For example, Snipes cringe when we hear the Bosn's say, "we rigged that outboard"

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13087918_1143792205641452_227896500608674765_n.jpg ?oh=ad6cfb12087b1e130534aeff0b4bffdf&oe=57DE0B03

Gunny
05-13-2016, 05:24 PM
Yeppers, BM = Bosn's Mate. I started out as a BT (Boiler Tech), but the rate was absorbed into the MK (Machinery Tech) so I was sent to Yorktown Va back in 1974 for schooling. The easiest way to distinguish between the two is BM's are "Deck" and MK's are Engineering (or deckies and snipes)

Of course, there's always been a sort of inter-service "competition" between deckies and snipes. For example, Snipes cringe when we hear the Bosn's say, "we rigged that outboard"

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13087918_1143792205641452_227896500608674765_n.jpg ?oh=ad6cfb12087b1e130534aeff0b4bffdf&oe=57DE0B03

What the crap? I could use that as a freakin' weapon. :laugh:

Elessar
05-13-2016, 06:06 PM
Okay y'all can make fun of me now. You mean Boatswain's Mate? I don't know how to spell the abbreviation. I know they're called phonetically "Buzun's mate". I was smart. I called everyone Sailor, Petty Officer, Chief or sir. I can identify the ranks by the stripes.

Bos'un or Boats was used for more senior members quite often.

Most especially if it was a W-3 or W-4 Bos'un!

Elessar
05-13-2016, 06:08 PM
Yeppers, BM = Bosn's Mate. I started out as a BT (Boiler Tech), but the rate was absorbed into the MK (Machinery Tech) so I was sent to Yorktown Va back in 1974 for schooling. The easiest way to distinguish between the two is BM's are "Deck" and MK's are Engineering (or deckies and snipes)

Of course, there's always been a sort of inter-service "competition" between deckies and snipes. For example, Snipes cringe when we hear the Bosn's say, "we rigged that outboard"



You found it! My invention!:laugh:

I always cringed when a snipe said they were going to paint something!

Bilgerat
05-13-2016, 08:00 PM
You found it! My invention!:laugh:

I always cringed when a snipe said they were going to paint something!


:laugh: :dance: :laugh:

The Gunner's Mate on one of the 180's decided to paint the bulkhead in after steering. He "thinned" the paint with diesel fuel.

After a week, he decided that the paint was NEVER going to dry :laugh2:

Gunny
05-14-2016, 11:51 AM
:laugh: :dance: :laugh:

The Gunner's Mate on one of the 180's decided to paint the bulkhead in after steering. He "thinned" the paint with diesel fuel.

After a week, he decided that the paint was NEVER going to dry :laugh2:

If you've ever been in a Marine Corps building and looked at the deck, you'll KNOW where y'all's leftover paint goes. :laugh:

Elessar
05-14-2016, 01:44 PM
:laugh: :dance: :laugh:

The Gunner's Mate on one of the 180's decided to paint the bulkhead in after steering. He "thinned" the paint with diesel fuel.

After a week, he decided that the paint was NEVER going to dry :laugh2:

Now that was pretty damn stupid! We used diesel to clean brushes!
It is a good solvent for synthetic enamel paints!