No one panders like Trump

[gabosaurus]

I have to wonder if Donald Trump realizes what he is saying in his rallies. Or even he even keeps up with himself.
Case in point is his speeches in San Diego on Friday.
First off, Trump makes the absurd statement that California is not experiencing a drought. He thinks the state is somehow hiding or withholding some miraculous supply that people don't know about. It's so ludicrous that I wonder if Trump even believes it.
Then comes the huge paradox of Trump's views on Latinos. He repeats the tired attacks on Mexicans and his promises to build a wall. Then he turns around and states that Latinos will start to love him when he gives them all jobs. Doing what?
The clincher came when he begins attacking a federal judge who is presiding over a case where students at Trump University are suing for fraud over bogus real estate "classes" that were basically worthless. Trump's attack went on so long that people started walking out on him.

Trump appears to tailor his speech to whoever he is talking to. He is for or against gun control. He hates Mexicans, except when he loves them and offers them jobs. He attacks California, except when he is in California.

Sarah Palin made a surprise appearance in San Diego and did her well-worn stand up comedy routine. She was basically ignored.

[jimnyc]

Then comes the huge paradox of Trump's views on Latinos. He repeats the tired attacks on Mexicans and his promises to build a wall. Then he turns around and states that Latinos will start to love him when he gives them all jobs.

Of course he attacks ILLEGALS coming from Mexico - so why would every day Mexicans or Latino's be upset with that?


The clincher came when he begins attacking a federal judge who is presiding over a case where students at Trump University are suing for fraud over bogus real estate "classes" that were basically worthless. Trump's attack went on so long that people started walking out on him.

I'm going to need a link for this one. Where you there? Because if not - then you have a link for us? Because unless you were there, and you do in fact have a link - this is not true - as the broadcasts focus only on the candidate and they won't stray when folks leave, protest or anything else. I'm not supporting the Trump U stuff in any way at all. I just find it odd that folks would wait for hours and hours to see someone, and then bail over a portion of his speech. LINK PLEASE!

[jimnyc]

Still sipping the 1st cup, my bad, forgot to say that I watched his rally yesterday, as I have about 100x before, Those broadcast on the internet, and there were plenty that I tried before I settled in, were cameras in place.

[Kathianne]

Of course he attacks ILLEGALS coming from Mexico - so why would every day Mexicans or Latino's be upset with that?



I'm going to need a link for this one. Where you there? Because if not - then you have a link for us? Because unless you were there, and you do in fact have a link - this is not true - as the broadcasts focus only on the candidate and they won't stray when folks leave, protest or anything else. I'm not supporting the Trump U stuff in any way at all. I just find it odd that folks would wait for hours and hours to see someone, and then bail over a portion of his speech. LINK PLEASE!


I didn't hear the speech, but have heard he went after the judge. Here's a link:

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/281586-trump-judge-in-trump-university-case-a-hater

[pete311]

Supporters will look away from Trump's historic flip flopping, paradoxes and total nonsense that if a dem did they would crucify him. American is not in trouble because Trump or Hillary could win, America is in trouble because one of them will. We desperately need a viable third party. Trump and Hillary are two heads on the same snake.

[jimnyc]

I didn't hear the speech, but have heard he went after the judge. Here's a link:

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/281586-trump-judge-in-trump-university-case-a-hater

I know that much, he's done so in prior events - but I'm questioning the folks that walked out on the event as Gabby stated.

(I didn't read your article, is that in there?)

[jimnyc]

Supporters will look away from Trump's historic flip flopping, paradoxes and total nonsense that if a dem did they would crucify him. American is not in trouble because Trump or Hillary could win, America is in trouble because one of them will. We desperately need a viable third party. Trump and Hillary are two heads on the same snake.

IMO, Hillary is 50x worse and has proven what she can do if in an official capacity. She has blood on her hands. Her flip flops and lies, while in office, are no less than Trump's.

But folks on the right aren't 100% sold on him, there is still a lot of strife. But on the left? Folks have no problem whatsoever voting for someone who is a proven career liar with blood on her hands, and now a proven liar even more with her email server, and a criminal. The lies just exposed about her server should disqualify her. She lied AGAIN to the American public and investigators while in office, while holding a server with such confidential information.

[Kathianne]

I know that much, he's done so in prior events - but I'm questioning the folks that walked out on the event as Gabby stated.

(I didn't read your article, is that in there?)

No, I didn't hear anything about folks walking out. I figure if true, he was winding down and they left early to beat the traffic, same as one does at a sports event or in church. ;)

[jimnyc]

No, I didn't hear anything about folks walking out. I figure if true, he was winding down and they left early to beat the traffic, same as one does at a sports event or in church. ;)

He's brought it up before but it's not like it's an hour of him discussing it. A couple of minutes tops was the most I saw. I think he should STFU about it, but I don't think folks are walking out either. Then again, I wouldn't wait HOURS to go to any rally either, but if I did, I'm staying no matter what! From what I recall of what I watched yesterday, it wasn't at the end of the event either.

I think he's wrong on the Trump U stuff.
I would prefer it wasn't even a subject at his rally
some there likely couldn't care less

I don't think a single person left early because he discussed it. There are SO many other controversial subjects, and SO many others that last longer at his rally's.

[Bilgerat]

No one panders?

Let's take a look at the Dumbocrat Elizabeth Warren (or as the real world knows her) Lie-awatha

She whines about how Trump (a business man) hopes to buy cheap, yet she and her family mad a killing doing just that.

THAT's pandering folks, telling the sheeple what they want to her about others, all the time doing what she's preaching against!


http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8918&stc=1

[Atticus Finch]

I find this thread ridiculous for 2 reasons....1. pandering is what politicians do....2. no one out panders the Clinton's.

[Bilgerat]

I find this thread ridiculous for 2 reasons....1. pandering is what politicians do....2. no one out panders the Clinton's.

True Dat




https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13266103_10207724626447050_4327365497915946307_n.j pg?oh=ef90ff7a87508eac15b58e4dc564b022&oe=57DA3564

[gabosaurus]

I'm going to need a link for this one. Where you there? Because if not - then you have a link for us? Because unless you were there, and you do in fact have a link - this is not true - as the broadcasts focus only on the candidate and they won't stray when folks leave, protest or anything else. I'm not supporting the Trump U stuff in any way at all. I just find it odd that folks would wait for hours and hours to see someone, and then bail over a portion of his speech. LINK PLEASE!

My apologies for not providing the link in my original post.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/may/27/trump-rally-san-diego/


As Trump railed about the case for about 10 minutes, dozens of those at the rally left the building.

[jimnyc]

My apologies for not providing the link in my original post.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/may/27/trump-rally-san-diego/

I stand corrected, and ashamed. I think the first time in at least like 9 years that you have proven me wrong. :) But I sure didn't see that live, as the cameras never pan, and no announcers of course. And I don't think he should spend 10 minutes or more condemning some judge that no one even knows, based on the scandal going on with Trump U. Rambling on about some judge in that case isn't going to make a bit of difference to his supporters. <--- and I mean that in a negative way for him, as in I don't think anyone is suddenly going to support him on said issue, just because the judge is Mexican, or whatever his reasoning is. Just as I don't think the university crap means much to his potential presidency, I also don't think it's a talking point either. It only serves to harm him.

[Gunny]

I stand corrected, and ashamed. I think the first time in at least like 9 years that you have proven me wrong. :) But I sure didn't see that live, as the cameras never pan, and no announcers of course. And I don't think he should spend 10 minutes or more condemning some judge that no one even knows, based on the scandal going on with Trump U. Rambling on about some judge in that case isn't going to make a bit of difference to his supporters. <--- and I mean that in a negative way for him, as in I don't think anyone is suddenly going to support him on said issue, just because the judge is Mexican, or whatever his reasoning is. Just as I don't think the university crap means much to his potential presidency, I also don't think it's a talking point either. It only serves to harm him.

Nothing to be ashamed about. Fact, your right wing guilt is showing and gabby's playing on it. ALL politicians pander. That's what they do. This could be a GEICO commercial. Selling is their game. And you KNOW I hate taking up for Trump. But he's a businessman, a seller, AND a politician. BFD.

Hitlery should be in prison. Haven't see ONE DAMNED POST from gabby on THAT fact. And as you know, I've been all over that fat, Maude pants suit-wearing ass since this broke over a year ago. It took them 3 months to convict John Walker for less.

[jimnyc]

Nothing to be ashamed about. Fact, your right wing guilt is showing and gabby's playing on it. ALL politicians pander. That's what they do. This could be a GEICO commercial. Selling is their game. And you KNOW I hate taking up for Trump. But he's a businessman, a seller, AND a politician. BFD.

Hitlery should be in prison. Haven't see ONE DAMNED POST from gabby on THAT fact. And as you know, I've been all over that fat, Maude pants suit-wearing ass since this broke over a year ago. It took them 3 months to convict John Walker for less.

Oh, I know. But I usually don't ask questions unless I already know the answer, nor dare someone to linky linky unless I think it's untrue. Of course I never would have had she posted the link to begin with. Nonetheless, her post was spot on, and I thought she kinda made up that little point about the walking out - but she didn't.

Ain't no righty guilt though. The right would have to fuckup for like the next 4,239 years before I would feel guilty about supporting them over the democrats.

[stephanie]

LOL, just take out Trump and add those Career Politicians Hillary and Bernie


saying everyone should have free college, health care, housing, abortions, birth control, etc isn't pandering?

No one can out Pander the leftist progressives and it's all to Dupe their base for votes .

I hope the people have been lied too enough by that snake party.

[aboutime]

I have to wonder if Donald Trump realizes what he is saying in his rallies. Or even he even keeps up with himself.
Case in point is his speeches in San Diego on Friday.
First off, Trump makes the absurd statement that California is not experiencing a drought. He thinks the state is somehow hiding or withholding some miraculous supply that people don't know about. It's so ludicrous that I wonder if Trump even believes it.
Then comes the huge paradox of Trump's views on Latinos. He repeats the tired attacks on Mexicans and his promises to build a wall. Then he turns around and states that Latinos will start to love him when he gives them all jobs. Doing what?
The clincher came when he begins attacking a federal judge who is presiding over a case where students at Trump University are suing for fraud over bogus real estate "classes" that were basically worthless. Trump's attack went on so long that people started walking out on him.

Trump appears to tailor his speech to whoever he is talking to. He is for or against gun control. He hates Mexicans, except when he loves them and offers them jobs. He attacks California, except when he is in California.

Sarah Palin made a surprise appearance in San Diego and did her well-worn stand up comedy routine. She was basically ignored.




Thanks Gabby. IF, and Only IF, what you say is true about Trump above. We should all be paying a tribute to you. Since that would mean Trump attended, and graduated from the GABBY SCHOOL OF PANDERING, and LIBERAL, POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.

[stephanie]

I have a hard time listening to someone criticize a Republican candidate when they are going to vote for the most Corrupted, is a proven Liar, and is nothing more but career Politician, who hasn't done anything outstanding the whole time she's been sucking a living off us taxpayers. And she is under investigation while we speak and acts like it's no big freaking deal. and they talk about Trump pandering.

sorry Gabby you should look at the people you plan on voting for. :cheers2:

[gabosaurus]

LOL, just take out Trump and add those Career Politicians Hillary and Bernie


saying everyone should have free college, health care, housing, abortions, birth control, etc isn't pandering?

No one can out Pander the leftist progressives and it's all to Dupe their base for votes .

I hope the people have been lied too enough by that snake party.

As always, I don't agree. But it is awesomely wonderful that Stephanie is back and arguing my points in her own inimitable way.

[Gunny]

As always, I don't agree. But it is awesomely wonderful that Stephanie is back and arguing my points in her own inimitable way.

I think she just lit your ass up.

[gabosaurus]

I think she just lit your ass up.

She's being doing it for a decade or so. At least in the deluded opinions of the conservative majority of this board. :rolleyes:


sorry Gabby you should look at the people you plan on voting for

I know exactly who I am voting for. I also know who I am voting against. I said at the beginning of the campaign that if Clinton ran against anyone except Trump or Cruz, I would seriously consider voting Republican.
It is all a matter of which pile of shit stinks least.

[Drummond]

Supporters will look away from Trump's historic flip flopping, paradoxes and total nonsense that if a dem did they would crucify him. American is not in trouble because Trump or Hillary could win, America is in trouble because one of them will. We desperately need a viable third party. Trump and Hillary are two heads on the same snake.

Ah, another 'Let's split the vote' advocate.

Are you a Leftie, by any chance ? Looking for a victory for the Left in your upcoming election ? No prizes for guessing the answers to these questions .... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[stephanie]

As always, I don't agree. But it is awesomely wonderful that Stephanie is back and arguing my points in her own inimitable way.

well thank you for that kind Welcome back my dear. I see you are still the same ole Gabby.
Just admit it, you're glad I'm back. :laugh::cheers2:

[gabosaurus]

well thank you for that kind Welcome back my dear. I see you are still the same ole Gabby.
Just admit it, you're glad I'm back. :laugh::cheers2:

I am glad you are back. If nothing else, it slightly tilts the balance of the board away from testosterone impaired males. :cheers2:

[Gunny]

She's being doing it for a decade or so. At least in the deluded opinions of the conservative majority of this board. :rolleyes:

As usual, you have no clue what you are talking about. I'm an actual old-school liberal. You lefties don't know what the word means. YOU make me a "conservative" in your befuddled little mind. I'd say the majority of us are not actually true conservatives. We're anti-Democrat. Look at the damned mess y'all make of stuff every chance you get.

[aboutime]

I am glad you are back. If nothing else, it slightly tilts the balance of the board away from testosterone impaired males. :cheers2:


Double, and Triple doses of ESTROGEN, combined with LIBERALISM, based on LGBT thinking that creates a hatred toward TESTOSTERONE must make your pretend life there in Californication a lot of Miserable Fun.



http://youtu.be/Zrz_s-5Vc2k

[fj1200]

Ah, another 'Let's split the vote' advocate.

Are you a Leftie, by any chance ? Looking for a victory for the Left in your upcoming election ? No prizes for guessing the answers to these questions .... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

We've been "not splitting the vote" since Reagan and the slide left has been going and going. Perhaps "not splitting the vote" is at the root of the problem.

[Gunny]

We've been "not splitting the vote" since Reagan and the slide left has been going and going. Perhaps "not splitting the vote" is at the root of the problem.

Look what splitting the vote HAS gotten us. Eight years of Obama. I agree there's a problem but we got an old saying in the Corps: Don't bring me your problem without a solution. If you can't come up with someone the overwhelming majority can agree on, and everyone wants to go rogue and vote for sure, non-entity losers, you got a problem.

[fj1200]

Look what splitting the vote HAS gotten us. Eight years of Obama. I agree there's a problem but we got an old saying in the Corps: Don't bring me your problem without a solution. If you can't come up with someone the overwhelming majority can agree on, and everyone wants to go rogue and vote for sure, non-entity losers, you got a problem.

The vote was not split 8 years ago. And I've got a solution; don't vote for either Democrat err, vote conservative err, the small government candidate. ;)

[Gunny]

The vote was not split 8 years ago. And I've got a solution; don't vote for either Democrat err, vote conservative err, the small government candidate. ;)

Depends on how you define "split". Staying home or voting 3rd party is splitting the vote in my little private world. And believe me, I'm playing deja vu here whether I want to or not. I remember getting into it with Pale Rider and Gaffer specifically over the last two elections. You stay home or vote for a sure loser, it's a vote for Hitlery. It's worked twice in 08 and 12. It's going to work again.

I am saddened that we call these people our leaders and they aren't even smart enough to overcome a simple tactic.

[fj1200]

Depends on how you define "split". Staying home or voting 3rd party is splitting the vote in my little private world. And believe me, I'm playing deja vu here whether I want to or not. I remember getting into it with Pale Rider and Gaffer specifically over the last two elections. You stay home or vote for a sure loser, it's a vote for Hitlery. It's worked twice in 08 and 12. It's going to work again.

I am saddened that we call these people our leaders and they aren't even smart enough to overcome a simple tactic.

That's not splitting as may happen in November. Whoever didn't vote for Romney wasn't split, they just couldn't pull the lever for whatever reason. And McCain was not going to win; he lost by almost 7 points.

[Gunny]

That's not splitting as may happen in November. Whoever didn't vote for Romney wasn't split, they just couldn't pull the lever for whatever reason. And McCain was not going to win; he lost by almost 7 points.

But it's the same old story with same results. It happened with Ross Perot. We got Clinton. If it happens this time, we get Clinton.

To me, people not voting or wasting their vote is splitting. The end result is the same.


“So in the Libyan fable it is told
That once an eagle, stricken with a dart,
Said, when he saw the fashion of the shaft,
With our own feathers, not by others' hands,
Are we now smitten. (http://izquotes.com/quote/205854)”
―Aeschylus (http://izquotes.com/author/aeschylus)

[Black Diamond]

That's not splitting as may happen in November. Whoever didn't vote for Romney wasn't split, they just couldn't pull the lever for whatever reason. And McCain was not going to win; he lost by almost 7 points.

By how many points did Bush Sr lose?

[fj1200]

But it's the same old story with same results. It happened with Ross Perot. We got Clinton. If it happens this time, we get Clinton.

To me, people not voting or wasting their vote is splitting. The end result is the same.

Well if you're going to define your own words. :poke:


By how many points did Bush Sr lose?

Some would argue it didn't effect the outcome especially in light of "read my lips."

[Gunny]

Well if you're going to define your own words. :poke:



Some would argue it didn't effect the outcome especially in light of "read my lips."

I honestly did not think he was a good President. That does NOT mean I thought he was a bad one either. "When the bow breaks, the cradle will fall." He had to do what he had to do. He screwed us in the military. But Gramm-Rudman-Hollings was in the works before he was in office. Reagan wasn't as pro-military as he tried to make it sound. Then Clinton just gave us the shaft.

The effect was the same though. It doesn't matter what reasons you use to define losing a game. Ross Perot took away just enough votes to put CLinton in office. That combined with the "read my lips" thing that kept people at home on election day and the end result is the same.

[fj1200]

I honestly did not think he was a good President. That does NOT mean I thought he was a bad one either. "When the bow breaks, the cradle will fall." He had to do what he had to do. He screwed us in the military. But Gramm-Rudman-Hollings was in the works before he was in office. Reagan wasn't as pro-military as he tried to make it sound. Then Clinton just gave us the shaft.

The effect was the same though. It doesn't matter what reasons you use to define losing a game. Ross Perot took away just enough votes to put CLinton in office. That combined with the "read my lips" thing that kept people at home on election day and the end result is the same.

I think he was a good President as well especially in regards to the fall of the Soviet Union with Baker at State. He shouldn't have caved on "read my lips" though.

[Gunny]

I think he was a good President as well especially in regards to the fall of the Soviet Union with Baker at State. He shouldn't have caved on "read my lips" though.

He didn't have a choice. It was actually the cutbacks and the collapse of the Soviet Union that created the problem. When we're gearing up for war and industry is booming, we're okay. When that war disappears, the industry has nowhere to go. There are cutbacks in both military and industry leading to a force out of work. Bush inherited that. The Soviet Union collapsed the year before he was elected. We were out of an enemy.

And no, I DON'T go for the industrial military complex conspiracy theory. I'm looking at cause and effect. Bush was reckless with his "read my lips" statement. He had no choice but raise taxes. I would have never said anything that absolute.

And don't get me wrong on Reagan. I loved the guy. Crap, when I joined we were issued Vietnam War hand me downs. But it was Bush, not Clinton that cut our force. Clinton just piled on the tax the middle class bandwagon.

[fj1200]

He didn't have a choice. It was actually the cutbacks and the collapse of the Soviet Union that created the problem. When we're gearing up for war and industry is booming, we're okay. When that war disappears, the industry has nowhere to go. There are cutbacks in both military and industry leading to a force out of work. Bush inherited that. The Soviet Union collapsed the year before he was elected. We were out of an enemy.

And no, I DON'T go for the industrial military complex conspiracy theory. I'm looking at cause and effect. Bush was reckless with his "read my lips" statement. He had no choice but raise taxes. I would have never said anything that absolute.

And don't get me wrong on Reagan. I loved the guy. Crap, when I joined we were issued Vietnam War hand me downs. But it was Bush, not Clinton that cut our force. Clinton just piled on the tax the middle class bandwagon.

PP1. I don't think we're talking about the same thing. We didn't rub it in the face of the Soviets that they lost and were essentially falling apart. Bush and Baker made a very good team going back 40 years.

PP2. I agree on your cause and effect but he didn't have to raise taxes.

PP3. Reagan good. :2up:

[Gunny]

PP1. I don't think we're talking about the same thing. We didn't rub it in the face of the Soviets that they lost and were essentially falling apart. Bush and Baker made a very good team going back 40 years.

PP2. I agree on your cause and effect but he didn't have to raise taxes.

PP3. Reagan good. :2up:

He DID have to raise taxes. We withdrew half our force and Congress under Gramm-Rudmn-Hollings was forcing people out of the military. That's a serious dump on the economy. Not to mention the people that supplied the military cutting back on labor. He had to come up with some money. Unfortunately, our politicians are always looking in OUR pockets. You ever let me get hold of the budget for Congress and you'd hear the crying from where you live.

[Black Diamond]

He DID have to raise taxes. We withdrew half our force and Congress under Gramm-Rudmn-Hollings was forcing people out of the military. That's a serious dump on the economy. Not to mention the people that supplied the military cutting back on labor. He had to come up with some money. Unfortunately, our politicians are always looking in OUR pockets. You ever let me get hold of the budget for Congress and you'd hear the crying from where you live.

There was a special on the 80s on CNN and i don't know the leaning of this person but she said Bush Sr saved the economy by breaking his promise ???

[Black Diamond]

Well if you're going to define your own words. :poke:



Some would argue it didn't effect the outcome especially in light of "read my lips."
Some = Clinton supporters.

[Gunny]

There was a special on the 80s on CNN and i don't know the leaning of this person but she said Bush Sr saved the economy by breaking his promise ???

He really had no choice. And don't get me wrong. He was my CinC. And we got to win. He was what a CinC should be. He handed the crap off to the military and told us to git'er done. All these Dems want to run wars from their desk chairs and make the dumbest decisions. You want me to get a job done? You do yours and I'll do mine. I don't need some civilian dirtbag politician telling me how to conduct an operation. Tell me what the mission is and get the Hell out of the way.

And our worthless CinC's have ALL been Democrats in the 20th century to date.

[revelarts]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DgXhkN3pbw
Is it wrong of me to not to take the above as sincere? and to consider that this might be "pandering" to the religious right?

[fj1200]

He DID have to raise taxes. We withdrew half our force and Congress under Gramm-Rudmn-Hollings was forcing people out of the military. That's a serious dump on the economy. Not to mention the people that supplied the military cutting back on labor. He had to come up with some money. Unfortunately, our politicians are always looking in OUR pockets. You ever let me get hold of the budget for Congress and you'd hear the crying from where you live.

No he didn't. Tax rates are not the primary determinant of tax revenues. Military roll backs and tax increases are a serious double dump on the economy; no wonder a recession came about.


There was a special on the 80s on CNN and i don't know the leaning of this person but she said Bush Sr saved the economy by breaking his promise ???

Hmm, a gal with an opinion?


Some = Clinton supporters.

Some yes, some no. Bush unfortunately sealed his own fate.

[Black Diamond]

No he didn't. Tax rates are not the primary determinant of tax revenues. Military roll backs and tax increases are a serious double dump on the economy; no wonder a recession came about.



Hmm, a gal with an opinion?



Some yes, some no. Bush unfortunately sealed his own fate.

Hmmm. A guy with an opinion?

[Gunny]

Hmmm. A guy with an opinion?

Some people can find the negative in anything. And don't get me wrong. I'm a Gunny. I can tell you why it won't work on anything. At the same time, I know how to assess a simple tactic. All the left does is attack to hide their own flaws; which, they are more than willing to ignore. They don't have to CYA because the right won't attack back, and have little means to do so given the MSM is staunchly leftwing.

So now it's "pandering"? Someone point out even one politician since the beginning of time that has not "pandered" to an audience. There's nothing new nor novel here.

[Bilgerat]

Some people can find the negative in anything. And don't get me wrong. I'm a Gunny. I can tell you why it won't work on anything. At the same time, I know how to assess a simple tactic. All the left does is attack to hide their own flaws; which, they are more than willing to ignore. They don't have to CYA because the right won't attack back, and have little means to do so given the MSM is staunchly leftwing.

So now it's "pandering"? Someone point out even one politician since the beginning of time that has not "pandered" to an audience. There's nothing new nor novel here.


See, this is one of the reasons Trump has as much money as he does.

Right now, he's living rent free in every one of the loony lefts' heads :laugh:

[Gunny]

See, this is one of the reasons Trump has as much money as he does.

Right now, he's living rent free in every one of the loony lefts' heads :laugh:

It's just the stupidity of the accusations, and the fact no one wants to see through them.

Changing your mind = flip-flopping

Running for office as a politician = pandering

But only if you're on the right. If you're on the left, you can be a criminal and not prosecuted.

And one thing I WILL say about Trump: He's pissed off more people since George Wallace. So who exactly is he pandering to?

[fj1200]

Hmmm. A guy with an opinion?

Yup, I'm a guy with an opinion and I'll discuss it further if you wish but IMO the statement you reference doesn't pass the smell test for one, that a tax increase "saved" the economy is ridiculous. Do you know which side of the political spectrum extols the virtues of tax increases? Nevertheless, for two, it doesn't appear to have worked if cutting the deficit is your benchmark and I'm pretty sure it was back then.

http://origin.factcheck.org/Images/image/FederalDeficit(1).jpg

https://thelibertytree.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/federal-deficit-under-bush-41.png

Deficits, by dollar and by % of GDP, continued to rise for another 4 years.


It's just the stupidity of the accusations, and the fact no one wants to see through them.

Changing your mind = flip-flopping

Running for office as a politician = pandering

But only if you're on the right. If you're on the left, you can be a criminal and not prosecuted.

And one thing I WILL say about Trump: He's pissed off more people since George Wallace. So who exactly is he pandering to?

It's a matter of definition and intent. Changing your mind based on new evidence is perfectly acceptable. Flip-flopping is "changing your mind" based on political expediency and shouldn't be acceptable. Pandering is telling your audience what they want to hear and shouldn't be acceptable either.

[Black Diamond]

Yup, I'm a guy with an opinion and I'll discuss it further if you wish but IMO the statement you reference doesn't pass the smell test for one, that a tax increase "saved" the economy is ridiculous. Do you know which side of the political spectrum extols the virtues of tax increases? Nevertheless, for two, it doesn't appear to have worked if cutting the deficit is your benchmark and I'm pretty sure it was back then.

http://origin.factcheck.org/Images/image/FederalDeficit(1).jpg

https://thelibertytree.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/federal-deficit-under-bush-41.png

Deficits, by dollar and by % of GDP, continued to rise for another 4 years.



It's a matter of definition and intent. Changing your mind based on new evidence is perfectly acceptable. Flip-flopping is "changing your mind" based on political expediency and shouldn't be acceptable. Pandering is telling your audience what they want to hear and shouldn't be acceptable either.
I don't recall her argument or i would a post it. I was trying to generate discussion. My feeling is don't make guarantees in that fashion if you can't back them up. He looked foolish.

[Gunny]

Yup, I'm a guy with an opinion and I'll discuss it further if you wish but IMO the statement you reference doesn't pass the smell test for one, that a tax increase "saved" the economy is ridiculous. Do you know which side of the political spectrum extols the virtues of tax increases? Nevertheless, for two, it doesn't appear to have worked if cutting the deficit is your benchmark and I'm pretty sure it was back then.

http://origin.factcheck.org/Images/image/FederalDeficit(1).jpg

https://thelibertytree.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/federal-deficit-under-bush-41.png

Deficits, by dollar and by % of GDP, continued to rise for another 4 years.



It's a matter of definition and intent. Changing your mind based on new evidence is perfectly acceptable. Flip-flopping is "changing your mind" based on political expediency and shouldn't be acceptable. Pandering is telling your audience what they want to hear and shouldn't be acceptable either.

I never said a tax increase saved anything. It certainly didn't help me out. And your numbers are misleading. Clinton piling on with an additional tax increase is what hurt the most.

[fj1200]

I don't recall her argument or i would a post it. I was trying to generate discussion. My feeling is don't make guarantees in that fashion if you can't back them up. He looked foolish.

And here I was all discussin' and stuff. :poke: He shouldn't have agreed to raise taxes promise or not. The problem is spending and it took the Republican Congress to hold down spending increases after '94.


I never said a tax increase saved anything. It certainly didn't help me out. And your numbers are misleading. Clinton piling on with an additional tax increase is what hurt the most.

psst, that wasn't posted to you. :poke: The numbers don't mislead, they are what they are.

[Gunny]

And here I was all discussin' and stuff. :poke: He shouldn't have agreed to raise taxes promise or not. The problem is spending and it took the Republican Congress to hold down spending increases after '94.



psst, that wasn't posted to you. :poke: The numbers don't mislead, they are what they are.

Apparently you don't get around much, huh? I don't do polls, charts, graphs or whatever. They say what the author wants them to say. We millions to these people and by God you better come up with the answer we want.

I was there. I had money in my pocket when Reagan was President. Not so much afterward. I was pinching pennies during Clinton's terms.

[fj1200]

Apparently you don't get around much, huh? I don't do polls, charts, graphs or whatever. They say what the author wants them to say. We millions to these people and by God you better come up with the answer we want.

I was there. I had money in my pocket when Reagan was President. Not so much afterward. I was pinching pennies during Clinton's terms.

I get around plenty; I didn't post graphs at you. ;) Nevertheless I provided fact, not what the author wanted it to say.

[Gunny]

I get around plenty; I didn't post graphs at you. ;) Nevertheless I provided fact, not what the author wanted it to say.

The people who compile those graphs are (over)paid to come to a conclusion. That conclusion would be the person paying them's desired outcome. This crap is no different than journalism. You lead the reader to a conclusion you want him/her to come to. Which is usually the conclusion the company wants you to come to.

What I know is the reality of the impact on my wallet. I don't need a chart or graph to explain THAT to me.

[fj1200]

The people who compile those graphs are (over)paid to come to a conclusion. That conclusion would be the person paying them's desired outcome. This crap is no different than journalism. You lead the reader to a conclusion you want him/her to come to. Which is usually the conclusion the company wants you to come to.

What I know is the reality of the impact on my wallet. I don't need a chart or graph to explain THAT to me.

I think the CBO was trying to come to the conclusion of how much our deficits are/were. They would have considerably less success if they had to rely on your particular wallet. :)

[Gunny]

I think the CBO was trying to come to the conclusion of how much our deficits are/were. They would have considerably less success if they had to rely on your particular wallet. :)

You dug out the tax charts, not me. I saw how it affected the people around me, myself included. I don't need an egghead and some chart to see my Marines standing in line for WiC and food stamps. Matter of fact, I totally got into it with SgtMaj over that one because he gave a lecture on how bad it looked for Marines in uniform to be collecting food stamps.

I was like pay them enough to f-ing live on then. Jesus H. Christ. We can go die for pennies? I'm telling my Marines to go in uniform. I want everyone to see how well they're treated. And since there's no f-ing regulation against it, SgtMaj, with all due respect, I ain't supporting YOUR damned image.

[fj1200]

You dug out the tax charts, not me. I saw how it affected the people around me, myself included. I don't need an egghead and some chart to see my Marines standing in line for WiC and food stamps. Matter of fact, I totally got into it with SgtMaj over that one because he gave a lecture on how bad it looked for Marines in uniform to be collecting food stamps.

I was like pay them enough to f-ing live on then. Jesus H. Christ. We can go die for pennies? I'm telling my Marines to go in uniform. I want everyone to see how well they're treated. And since there's no f-ing regulation against it, SgtMaj, with all due respect, I ain't supporting YOUR damned image.

They were revenue charts. It sounds like you're arguing both sides though; he "had to" raise taxes and you saw how those tax hikes affected people.

[Gunny]

They were revenue charts. It sounds like you're arguing both sides though; he "had to" raise taxes and you saw how those tax hikes affected people.

Of course I look at both sides of an argument. What kind of leader am I if I don't understand my enemy? What I've noticed of most people on message boards is they are all one-sided on an issue. I never had that luxury. I can tell you can you why and I can tell you why not from a strategic and tactical point of view. NEVER think I underestimate my opponent. When the CO says, "that's all well and good Gunny, but we're going with the plan", it's my job to make the plan work. Not sit around moaning and whining about it.

And I knew my enemy. I know more about Islam than most people on this board and the same about Arabs. I know how they act and what they're going to try to do. I ain't got time for my personal politics in the filed. That shit gets people killed. I'm bringing every swinging dick home. And I will accomplish that mission as ruthlessly and efficiently as I see fit to make sure every swinging dick comes home. There's a thread on here about torture. I won't systematically torture anyone but if you think I won't slam your ass into a tree and put a Ka-Bar to your neck you'd lose a bet.

And don't think I don't understand a flawed system. Our system feeds off itself by creating problems rather than fixing them. And I gave up long ago thinking anyone but vets were going to understand my way of thinking.

So sure, I look at both sides and then I decide who I think is right. If you bother to look at almost everything I say when I ain't jerking off, it's cause and effect.

[fj1200]

So sure, I look at both sides and then I decide who I think is right. If you bother to look at almost everything I say when I ain't jerking off, it's cause and effect.

Of course but I think in this case both sides says tax hikes were not necessary nor advisable.

[Gunny]

Of course but I think in this case both sides says tax hikes were not necessary nor advisable.

And again, I disagree. They wouldn't let us out during the Gulf War, then when it was over, they proceeded to cut out 1/4 of the force. Now what exactly do you think most of those people are going to do? I got lucky and a drill instructor slot. You can't just bring us back to the world after a year of being gone and dump us on the street. I was still living in 1990 and y'all had moved on to 1991. Somebody had to pay for dumping all those servicepeople on the economy. A convenient part Gramm-Rudman-Hollings didn't address. You just dumped a bunch of people back in the world, many who had PTSD, and expected them to just get a job at True Value and be okay and support their families?

Brilliant. There was no human factor. Ask any of the squids on this board. The day you go out is the day before you come back. In the case of the Gulf War, we were on our way home and got turned around. I was out for 368 days.

And I'm not speaking for Bush nor anyone else except those of us that deployed. Time stands still for us. The rest of the world has moved on. I know I see crap on TV now that happened in the 80s and 90s and I'm like where the F- was I? Oh yeah. Again. Not complaining- trying to explain.

We were already in economic trouble or no one would have given Perot a second thought.

[Elessar]

And again, I disagree. You can't just bring us back to the world after a year of being gone and dump us on the street. I was still living in 1990 and y'all had moved on to 1991. Somebody had to pay for dumping all those servicepeople on the economy. A convenient part Gramm-Rudman-Hollings didn't address. You just dumped a bunch of people back in the world, many who had PTSD, and expected them to just get a job at True Value and be okay and support their families?

Brilliant. There was no human factor.

That is extremely accurate. And some of those guys/gals are still homeless, wandering
the streets and highways.

That is and was a classic Up-F*ck!. Too many people do not know that quite a few with
PTSD cannot understand they need assistance...so they wander. They should have been
retained long enough to get many of them on a path to recovery. Our civilian Government
screwed them.

[Gunny]

That is extremely accurate. And some of those guys/gals are still homeless, wandering
the streets and highways.

That is and was a classic Up-F*ck!. Too many people do not know that quite a few with
PTSD cannot understand they need assistance...so they wander. They should have been
retained long enough to get many of them on a path to recovery. Our civilian Government
screwed them.

I can't speak for others. I deal with it every day. Some can deal, some can't. I know I've seen some horrible sh*t. They like to sleep with me at night. Why do you think I'm the one on the board half the night? But I AM my father's son, like it or not. I ain't giving in. Neither of us take any drugs but iboprofen. I slept in a bottle for quite a few years until I realized there was no answer in the bottom of it. Lost pretty much everything out of the deal.

Tomorrow's another day.

[aboutime]

I can't speak for others. I deal with it every day. Some can deal, some can't. I know I've seen some horrible sh*t. They like to sleep with me at night. Why do you think I'm the one on the board half the night? But I AM my father's son, like it or not. I ain't giving in. Neither of us take any drugs but iboprofen. I slept in a bottle for quite a few years until I realized there was no answer in the bottom of it. Lost pretty much everything out of the deal.

Tomorrow's another day.


Gunny. After I got home from the Gulf in 91, following my spinal surgery, at sea in the Persian Gulf. I had to speak with a Chief Corpsman at Portsmouth Va. Naval Hospital after my six months of LIMDU. I had almost a full 25 in by then, and they F'in offered me $44,000 dollars, without a pension to call it quits. That was the Clinton admin. doing what they did best. Of course. I told them NO (wanted to tell them to stick it), and I stayed in until Aug of 1995.
To let you know. You aren't the Lone Ranger here. The navy put a hold on any advancement chances for me, and even prevented me from becoming SURFACE WARFARE qualified before I retired..Not at home, but in port in the Panama Canal Zone. My wife, and sons never got to see me be retired, but the guys on the ship built my SHADOW BOX, and they Gonged me Off the morning I left. Since then. There has not been a day I haven't been in pain, not to mention the cancer, and heart attacks...just for fun. So please. Lighten up a bit. Please.

[Gunny]

Gunny. After I got home from the Gulf in 91, following my spinal surgery, at sea in the Persian Gulf. I had to speak with a Chief Corpsman at Portsmouth Va. Naval Hospital after my six months of LIMDU. I had almost a full 25 in by then, and they F'in offered me $44,000 dollars, without a pension to call it quits. That was the Clinton admin. doing what they did best. Of course. I told them NO (wanted to tell them to stick it), and I stayed in until Aug of 1995.
To let you know. You aren't the Lone Ranger here. The navy put a hold on any advancement chances for me, and even prevented me from becoming SURFACE WARFARE qualified before I retired..Not at home, but in port in the Panama Canal Zone. My wife, and sons never got to see me be retired, but the guys on the ship built my SHADOW BOX, and they Gonged me Off the morning I left. Since then. There has not been a day I haven't been in pain, not to mention the cancer, and heart attacks...just for fun. So please. Lighten up a bit. Please.

The only thing that makes me fee like the Lone Ranger is y'all don't speak up. You don't support the fact you know I am right. I ain't playing victim. As I posted previously. I 'm just trying to explain a different way of thinking to people that never lived in our world. I understand the personal crap. My youngest daughter learned to walk and talk while I was away. I missed out on that. Missed quite a few Christmas's too. And I remember the buy out program. It was a program from Gramm-Rudman-Hollings during Bush's administration, not Clinton's. I DO remember Clinton increased our OpTempo while decreasing out manpower.

I'm not trying to offend anyone. But y'all don't speak up.. That's not on me.

[CSM]

The only thing that makes me fee like the Lone Ranger is y'all don't speak up. You don't support the fact you know I am right. I ain't playing victim. As I posted previously. I 'm just trying to explain a different way of thinking to people that never lived in our world. I understand the personal crap. My youngest daughter learned to walk and talk while I was away. I missed out on that. Missed quite a few Christmas's too. And I remember the buy out program. It was a program from Gramm-Rudman-Hollings during Bush's administration, not Clinton's. I DO remember Clinton increased our OpTempo while decreasing out manpower.

I'm not trying to offend anyone. But y'all don't speak up.. That's not on me.

You are not alone, Gunny (but then I'm pretty sure you know that). Your story is pretty much my story .... BUT we all deal with it in different ways (AFTER we sober up! and if we get that second chance). I am not much good at trying to explain to some puke with an IQ of 2 why I deal with things the way I do. They can judge me all they want and I just don't give a crap. I have killed (literally) better men than them.

*sheesh* can ya tell there is a little bit of hostility beneath this calm exterior?

[Atticus Finch]

I've never served in the military but my father did in Korea and my son has for served 18 yrs with 2 tours in Iraq and Afghanistan.On his second tour his ex-wife gutted him for everything he had and then some,not to mention taking his daughter from him..He had to move in with me at 33 yrs old just to survive.I had to deal with his PTSD everyday and it was scary at times because I didn't want to let anyone know how bad he was, especially his whore of an ex wife.He has come to grips with it now and has started to act "normal" for the first time in 4 years.He's finally back on his feet financially and emotionally and buying a house.

I said all of that to say this.No one can know the true horrors of war unless they've experienced first hand.I have the utmost admiration and respect for the men and women in uniform.The soldier will always have my support.I want to thank all who have served on this board.I know something of your mental torture through dealing with my son.You are always in my prayers.May God Bless You All.

[Gunny]

You are not alone, Gunny (but then I'm pretty sure you know that). Your story is pretty much my story .... BUT we all deal with it in different ways (AFTER we sober up! and if we get that second chance). I am not much good at trying to explain to some puke with an IQ of 2 why I deal with things the way I do. They can judge me all they want and I just don't give a crap. I have killed (literally) better men than them.

*sheesh* can ya tell there is a little bit of hostility beneath this calm exterior?

I hear ya Sergeant Major. And I can't figure out why I keep trying to explain it to pukes. But I do. I know it ain't about just me. I don't feel special. Us vets have our own language. That's all. I ain't got to explain anything to you.

I just rebel against the civilian BS. And nobody needs to take me wrong on that, There are good people on this board and I respect them as much as anyone else.. I'm intolerant to ignorance. Take the blinders off. Try and understand. I do.

Some of these people like to talk all kinds of crap about us vets. It don't erase the heartache.

[fj1200]

And again, I disagree. They wouldn't let us out during the Gulf War, then when it was over, they proceeded to cut out 1/4 of the force. Now what exactly do you think most of those people are going to do? I got lucky and a drill instructor slot. You can't just bring us back to the world after a year of being gone and dump us on the street. I was still living in 1990 and y'all had moved on to 1991. Somebody had to pay for dumping all those servicepeople on the economy. A convenient part Gramm-Rudman-Hollings didn't address. You just dumped a bunch of people back in the world, many who had PTSD, and expected them to just get a job at True Value and be okay and support their families?

Brilliant. There was no human factor. Ask any of the squids on this board. The day you go out is the day before you come back. In the case of the Gulf War, we were on our way home and got turned around. I was out for 368 days.

And I'm not speaking for Bush nor anyone else except those of us that deployed. Time stands still for us. The rest of the world has moved on. I know I see crap on TV now that happened in the 80s and 90s and I'm like where the F- was I? Oh yeah. Again. Not complaining- trying to explain.

We were already in economic trouble or no one would have given Perot a second thought.


That is extremely accurate. And some of those guys/gals are still homeless, wandering
the streets and highways.

That is and was a classic Up-F*ck!. Too many people do not know that quite a few with
PTSD cannot understand they need assistance...so they wander. They should have been
retained long enough to get many of them on a path to recovery. Our civilian Government
screwed them.

Sorry, but there is little economic evidence that shows that tax increases are good for job creation.

[Elessar]

*sheesh* can ya tell there is a little bit of hostility beneath this calm exterior?

You are good to go with me, Sgt. Major! Expound all you need.

[Elessar]

I hear ya Sergeant Major. And I can't figure out why I keep trying to explain it to pukes. But I do. I know it ain't about just me. I don't feel special. Us vets have our own language. That's all. I ain't got to explain anything to you.

I just rebel against the civilian BS. And nobody needs to take me wrong on that, There are good people on this board and I respect them as much as anyone else.. I'm intolerant to ignorance. Take the blinders off. Try and understand. I do.

Some of these people like to talk all kinds of crap about us vets. It don't erase the heartache.

We have the same language but with different dialects at times.

Those that talk shit about Vets are ignorant, not wanting to get to know us.
But are high and mighty to broad-bush condemnation in an instant.
Our missions were different, but the loyalty is all the same.

Any one of you could shit on my carpet any time!:beer:

[Gunny]

We have the same language but with different dialects at times.

Those that talk shit about Vets are ignorant, not wanting to get to know us.
But are high and mighty to broad-bush condemnation in an instant.
Our missions were different, but the loyalty is all the same.

Any one of you could shit on my carpet any time!:beer:

I don't really have an issue with y'all's language. I grew up on Army, USAF and Naval bases, then was a Marine. We speak different dialects because of our MOS's. I'm a grunt. I just spit it out.

I'd have to say I had the most trouble with the Army. When you give the command "dress right, DRESS" they go to close interval. In the Marines, the is "at close interval, Dress right, DRESS". The difference is in the executin of the command. In the former, your arm goes straight out at a 45 degree angle. In the latter, you put your left hand on your hip and use your elbow to get interval.

The other was "at ease". In the Army that means shut up. In the Corps, it's a close order drill command. When we want you to shut up we say STFU. I had this Army Captain telling me "at ease" and I'm like why is this guy giving me drill field commands in his office? And of course, I didn't shut up.

They also salute, uncovered, indoors. When I reported to my CO he started trying to bitch at me for not saluting when reporting and I'm like "We're in an office?" You salute indoors in the Marines only if you are armed and/or wearing the duty belt. And NEVER salute an officer in the field. THAT used to piss me off too. Why don't you just get some florescent paint and put a bullseye on the MF-er?

I never had problems with Navy people as far as language. They start pounding Naval terminology into your head Day One in boot camp.

[revelarts]

How Trump is making his "campaign about nothing" work.


Dilbert Cartoonist, trained hypnotist and 20 year student of persuasion. And predicted Trumps win without being a supporter.
He sees the method in the madness.
And Trump's masterful use of the tools of persuasion.


what simply put most call the sales pitch, or flimflam, the bamboozle, the con and the snake oil cry,





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMERNoQm5DE



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uERs7AyaQmA

[Gunny]

How Trump is making his "campaign about nothing" work.


Dilbert Cartoonist, trained hypnotist and 20 year student of persuasion. And predicted Trumps win without being a supporter.
He sees the method in the madness.
And Trump's masterful use of the tools of persuasion.


what simply put most call the sales pitch, or flimflam, the bamboozle, the con and the snake oil cry,





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMERNoQm5DE



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uERs7AyaQmA

Dude, get the f*ck over it. You're making everyone else's point for them. He's making it work. I don't like him and wouldn't consider working for him. I end up punching him in the mouth once he tried his BS on me.

Nevertheless, the reality of the situation is he's the candidate and still beats anything the left is offering. There's no hard math here. You're a day late and a dollar short. Where were you a year ago when it was the right time to bitch about him? Now you're just sounding like sour grapes. That battle is OVER. Time to move on. Glad you were never a field commander. You want to come charging in ready for war when everyone else is collecting gear and moving on.

[fj1200]

How Trump is making his "campaign about nothing" work.

Dilbert Cartoonist, trained hypnotist and 20 year student of persuasion. And predicted Trumps win without being a supporter.
He sees the method in the madness.
And Trump's masterful use of the tools of persuasion.

what simply put most call the sales pitch, or flimflam, the bamboozle, the con and the snake oil cry,

Part Hoover, part Wilson.

[jimnyc]

How Trump is making his "campaign about nothing" work.

And just as successful as the "television show about nothing". He's been chewing bubble gum and kicking ass on 17 candidates and counting!! :laugh:

[Gunny]

And just as successful as the "television show about nothing". He's been chewing bubble gum and kicking ass on 17 candidates and counting!! :laugh:

Never once watched his show. And he hardly kicked ass on 17 candidates. Unless using personal insults on people whose support you're going to need to win "kicking ass." The media and left wanted him as candidate. He'll destroy himself with his mouth. He gets in too many personal pissing contests, name-calling and finger pointing instead of staying focused on issues. When he is the official nominee, the left and MSM are going to dig right in.

My point as stated above, my opinion of him hasn't changed a bit. But barring a miracle, we're stuck with him. Time to move on. Get this crap over with. It doesn't do any good to start crying about him now. The Supreme Court is at stake. Keeping the Dems from appointing any Justices is the mission. President is only 4 years. Supreme Court Justices die in their chairs.

And if he ain't on my TV Hitlery is with her crap, yelling every word. WHEN YOU YELL EVERY WORD IT TAKES AWAY THE IMPACT OF THE STATEMENT. Not that she says anything worth listening to anyway.

[jimnyc]

Never once watched his show. And he hardly kicked ass on 17 candidates. Unless using personal insults on people whose support you're going to need to win "kicking ass." The media and left wanted him as candidate. He'll destroy himself with his mouth. He gets in too many personal pissing contests, name-calling and finger pointing instead of staying focused on issues. When he is the official nominee, the left and MSM are going to dig right in.

My point as stated above, my opinion of him hasn't changed a bit. But barring a miracle, we're stuck with him. Time to move on. Get this crap over with. It doesn't do any good to start crying about him now. The Supreme Court is at stake. Keeping the Dems from appointing any Justices is the mission. President is only 4 years. Supreme Court Justices die in their chairs.

And if he ain't on my TV Hitlery is with her crap, yelling every word. WHEN YOU YELL EVERY WORD IT TAKES AWAY THE IMPACT OF THE STATEMENT. Not that she says anything worth listening to anyway.

I was simply saying - 17 candidates up, and then 17 candidates down = getting their asses kicked. Sure, they weren't landslides, but it was just a matter of speech. No need for the novel, fuckface.

[Gunny]

I was simply saying - 17 candidates up, and then 17 candidates down = getting their asses kicked. Sure, they weren't landslides, but it was just a matter of speech. No need for the novel, fuckface.

In all actuality, I may have quoted your post, but my point is for ALL, especially rev who is a day late to the party. I do it every election. Trying to wake some people up. Should have seen my posts on McCain. I can't stand the idiot. He's been a traitor the party since Day One. I have opposite problem with McCain than I do Trump. Trump bullies everyone with his mouth. McCain used his to kiss Democrats' asses. You have NO idea I fought against him being the nominee.

But once he is, you play with hand your dealt. The only worse choice than McCain was the Blunder in Chief we currently have. And I'll take Trump over Hillary or the commie ANY day.

My point is, vote and make it count. No one's making a point voting 3rd party. Most people don't even know who they are. I don't. And as long as they don't get a fair deal and can actually do something, I'm not wasting my vote.