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Kathianne
07-15-2016, 03:44 PM
https://twitter.com/ReutersWorld/status/754038862679314440


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BREAKING: Gunfire heard in Turkish capital, military jets and helicopters flying over Ankara- Reuters witnesses

http://hotair.com/archives/2016/07/15/wow-coup-in-progress-in-turkey/


Wow: Coup in progress in Turkey?POSTED AT 4:17 PM ON JULY 15, 2016 BY ALLAHPUNDIT


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It’s happened before (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2012/04/20124472814687973.html), most recently in 1997, and when it does it takes the form of a military backlash against rising Islamism. Erdogan has pushing the country in that direction for years. Did he finally push too far, or is something else at stake?
Either way, something big is up (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36809083).

Both of the main bridges in the Turkish city of Istanbul have been closed by security forces, reports say.
Traffic has been stopped from crossing both the Bosphorus and Fatih Sultan Mehmet bridges, but no reasons have been given.
There are also reports of military aircraft flying over the capital Ankara, with gunshots heard.
I saw one report on Twitter of military personnel disarming civilian police.
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Breaking: Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim says a group within the military engaged in an attempted coup - @AP (https://twitter.com/AP)
1:08 PM - 15 Jul 2016 (https://twitter.com/passantino/status/754044872609234944)



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</twitterwidget>There’s “significant military activity” in both Ankara and Istanbul, NBC (https://twitter.com/NBCNightlyNews/status/754044853311279104) is reporting. Boy, I’ll say: Watch this clip to see how low the jets are flying. Things are in motion. Stand by for updates.
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BREAKING: Gunfire heard in Turkish capital, military jets and helicopters flying over #Ankara (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ankara?src=hash) - @ReutersWorld (https://twitter.com/ReutersWorld)




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</twitterwidget>Update: Social media, including Facebook and Twitter, is reportedly offline (http://youtube%2C%20facebook%2C%20and%20twitter%20have%20 reportedly%20been%20blocked./) in Turkey.
Update: Rumors of an impending coup were so loud in March of this year that the Turkish military felt obliged to formally deny them (http://atimes.com/2016/03/turkish-military-denies-coup-attempt-against-erdogan-what-next/). Here’s an interesting piece (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/7/recep-tayyip-erdogan-uses-turkey-military-coup-buz/) from around that same time wondering if the rumors were based on something or just disinformation pushed by Erdogan as a way of consolidating public support for his government. I … guess we know the answer now.
On the other hand, Erdogan has always seemed to have dictatorial ambitions (http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/11/turkey-erdogan-executive-president-sultan-or-caliph.html). Is the coup aimed at him or was it orchestrated by him?
Update: Yep, it’s on.
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BREAKING NEWS: THE TURKISH STATE TV IS NOW SHUT DOWN.
1:19 PM - 15 Jul 2016 (https://twitter.com/pzf/status/754047881951215616)



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</twitterwidget>Update: Another old piece worth reading now is this Journal story from mid-May (http://www.wsj.com/articles/turkish-militarys-influence-rises-again-1463346285) about how the Turkish military has been growing in clout lately, raising fears of a coup as Erdogan tried to consolidate his own power:

Mr. Erdogan’s moves to sideline political opponents—he forced out his handpicked prime minister this month amid a power struggle—has cleared the way for Turkey’s generals to play a greater role in shaping Mr. Erdogan’s attempts to extend his global influence.
Turkish generals are tempering Mr. Erdogan’s push to send troops into Syria, managing a controversial military campaign against Kurdish insurgents, and protecting Turkey’s relations with Western allies who view the president with suspicion. By steering clear of politics, they re-emerged as a central player in national security decisions.
“The Turkish military is the only agent that wants to put on the brakes and create checks-and-balances against Erdogan,” said Metin Gurcan, a former Turkish military officer who now works as an Istanbul-based security analyst.
“The restoration of the Turkish army’s influence has resurrected concerns all the way up to the presidential palace that generals might try to topple Mr. Erdogan,” the Journal went on to say. And here we are.
As I write this, reports are circulating that the military has issued a statement (https://twitter.com/noahbarkin/status/754049410703716352) claiming it’s now in control of Turkey.


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Gunny
07-15-2016, 03:48 PM
https://twitter.com/ReutersWorld/status/754038862679314440



http://hotair.com/archives/2016/07/15/wow-coup-in-progress-in-turkey/

Turks are as nationalistic as .. well ... at least half the US is. They are a LOT more militaristic.

Kathianne
07-15-2016, 04:16 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-coup-attempt-military-gunfire-ankara




<header class="content__head tonal__head tonal__head--tone-live " style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: &quot;Guardian Text Egyptian Web&quot;, Georgia, serif; font-size: medium; line-height: 24px;">Turkey coup attempt: military claims takeover of government – live

• Turkish PM Binali Yıldırım says security forces are tackling situation

• Chief of military staff reportedly among hostages in Ankara
• Military aircraft seen flying over capital and gunfire reported
LIVE Updated <time class="js-timestamp" datetime="2016-07-15T21:08:34.000Z" data-relativeformat="med" title="2m ago">3m ago</time></header>Kevin Rawlinson (https://www.theguardian.com/profile/kevin-rawlinson)

<time itemprop="datePublished" datetime="2016-07-15T17:08:34-0400" data-timestamp="1468616914000" class="content__dateline-wpd js-wpd" style="display: inline-block;">Friday 15 July 2016 17.08 EDT</time>
<time datetime="2016-07-15T21:04:16.000Z" data-relativeformat="med" class=" js-timestamp" itemprop="datePublished" title="5.04pm EDT" style="display: inline-block; margin-bottom: 0.375rem;">7m ago</time>17:04 (https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-coup-attempt-military-gunfire-ankara?page=with:block-57894f93e4b033b610b6e3f0#block-57894f93e4b033b610b6e3f0)

The US secretary of state John Kerry says he hopes there will be peace, stability and unity within Turkey (https://www.theguardian.com/world/turkey) amid reports that a military coup is underway.




<time datetime="2016-07-15T21:02:26.000Z" data-relativeformat="med" class=" js-timestamp" itemprop="datePublished" title="5.02pm EDT" style="display: inline-block; margin-bottom: 0.375rem;">9m ago</time>17:02 (https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-coup-attempt-military-gunfire-ankara?page=with:block-57894f25e4b033b610b6e3ee#block-57894f25e4b033b610b6e3ee)

Soldiers are inside the buildings of the Turkish state broadcaster TRT in the country’s capital Ankara, a correspondent for that outlet tells the Reuters news agency.

<time datetime="2016-07-15T21:01:06.000Z" data-relativeformat="med" class=" js-timestamp" itemprop="datePublished" title="5.01pm EDT" style="display: inline-block; margin-bottom: 0.375rem;">10m ago</time>17:01 (https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-coup-attempt-military-gunfire-ankara?page=with:block-57894eede4b08239dbab7953#block-57894eede4b08239dbab7953)

We understand that the Turkish president is due to make a statement shortly.
<time datetime="2016-07-15T21:00:17.000Z" data-relativeformat="med" class=" js-timestamp" itemprop="datePublished" title="5.00pm EDT" style="display: inline-block; margin-bottom: 0.375rem;">11m ago</time>17:00 (https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-coup-attempt-military-gunfire-ankara?page=with:block-57894dfde4b073c22786c878#block-57894dfde4b073c22786c878)


The full Turkish military statement reads: “Turkish Armed Forces have completely taken over the administration of the country to reinstate constitutional order, human rights and freedoms, the rule of law and general security that was damaged.“All international agreements are still valid. We hope that all of our good relationships with all countries will continue.”




The Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is on holiday and outside the country. Reuters has quoted a source within his office as saying that he is safe.



...

crin63
07-15-2016, 04:17 PM
My pastor left Ukraine 12 hours ago with a stop over at Istambul airport. Apparently got through during some part of the coup. He is in Bucharest now. Praise God for keeping him and his wife safe.

jimnyc
07-15-2016, 04:20 PM
Military states they have control, and others state not full control. Will be interesting to see how this plays out, as the PM has the police on call and told them to use weapons? I wonder if this leads to much bloodshed?

Kathianne
07-15-2016, 04:27 PM
Military states they have control, and others state not full control. Will be interesting to see how this plays out, as the PM has the police on call and told them to use weapons? I wonder if this leads to much bloodshed?

From the little I know, the military is more pro-freedom than the people and certainly the president. Seems the attack on the airport has brought on a desire for less radical Islam from military leaders.

Erdogan has let radicals push.

crin63
07-15-2016, 04:33 PM
My pastor left Ukraine 12 hours ago with a stop over at Istambul airport. Apparently got through during some part of the coup. He is in Bucharest now. Praise God for keeping him and his wife safe.

I just got an email from him. From the reports he heard, moments after their plane took off tanks rolled into the airport. I believe he is scheduled to go back through there in a week.

Kathianne
07-15-2016, 04:37 PM
Happen to be visiting, on the ground report:

https://pjmedia.com/trending/2016/07/15/live-from-turkey-soldiers-everywhere-possible-military-coup-in-progress/


LIVE FROM TURKEY: Soldiers Everywhere; Possible Military Coup in Progress



Izmir, Turkey: The Turkish military claims to have overthrown President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. In an official statement, the military adds that its first priority right now is to uphold the rule of law.


My Turkish wife and I spent the last hour and a half walking back home from my in-laws' home. There was nothing to see on the streets of Izmir -- the third largest city in Turkey with a large Navy presence -- except the usual: a few Syrian beggars and normal Turks enjoying the warm weather (and a drink).


When I arrived home, however, the telephone suddenly rang. I also received several notifications: a military coup was supposedly taking place in Turkey. According to some media reports, police officers are being disarmed by soldiers. There are also many photos and videos of Turkish tanks and airplanes driving through and flying above Ankara and Istanbul, respectively the nation's capital and its largest city.





The Turkish Prime Minister, Binali Yıldırım, has gone on record calling the military action "an uprising." He told broadcaster NTV in a phone call, "This cannot be called a coup for the moment. This is an uprising."


Chances are that Yıldırım called it an "uprising" because he wants to belittle those trying to stage the coup. If they fail, he'll be heralded as the man who kept calm under pressure, but if the coup succeeds, he'll undoubtedly be known as Turkey's version of Baghdad Bob.


And we've got some bad news for him. The military has just released a statement saying President Erdoğan has been overthrown (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/turkey-low-flying-jets-and-gunfire-heard-in-ankara1/).


In a statement, the Turkish military says the rule of law must remain the priority."The power in the country has been seized in its entirety," said the military statement read on NTV television, without giving further details. The military's website was not immediately accessible.

...

Update 5:21 p.m. EST: The Turkish military has taken over state news channel TRT. The news presenter was obviously afraid when she suddenly came back on to read the official statement of the military.


In the statement the military says that it staged the coup in order to protect Turkey's secular system, and ironically, its democracy against an autocratic government. That is: the government led by President Erdogan who was over the last few months planning a major takeover of his own by creating a so-called presidential rather than a parliamentary system.


The military has made it known we're not allowed to go outside. Tensions are rising fast, not only in Ankara and Istanbul where soldiers and tanks are patrolling the streets while fighter jets are flying overhead, but also in my city of Izmir (the country's third largest city).

Gunny
07-15-2016, 05:41 PM
My pastor left Ukraine 12 hours ago with a stop over at Istambul airport. Apparently got through during some part of the coup. He is in Bucharest now. Praise God for keeping him and his wife safe.

I lived in that place for two years. Karamursel AFB. Don't think it exists as a US AFB anymore. I was a little kid and still remember the Turks. I want to see ISIS take THEM on. There's a reason no one screws with that place.

And Obama needs to keep his mouth shut. We got enough enemies without those militaristic idiots up our ass too.

jimnyc
07-15-2016, 05:59 PM
How the coup in Turkey endangers the U.S.

Reports of a coup in Turkey took Washington off guard Friday as a military faction claimed it had taken control of the strategic U.S. ally.

Relations between the U.S. and Turkey have been strained in recent months, but stability in the country is vital to American interests in the Middle East.

Turkey’s Prime Minister Binali Yildirm announced that a group within the country’s military had attempted late Friday to overthrow the government. Social media in the country has been largely shut down and television stations showed tanks and jeeps outside Ataturk Airport in Istanbul, site of a recent terrorist attack. A military official read a statement on Turkish television stating that martial law had been imposed.

Turkey lies at the nexus between the Middle East and Europe, and is directly north of Syria. It hosts the U.S.-led international coalition fighting the Islamic State group, which conducts airstrikes against the extremists from Incirlik Airbase in the southern part of Turkey.

The Defense Department did not have an immediate statement on the status of American personnel and assets at the base, MSNBC reported.

It is unclear what, if any, obligation the U.S. would have to come to Turkey’s defense as a NATO ally. The Article 5 provision of the NATO alliance requires countries to come to the aid of a fellow ally in case of attack, but it is unknown how it would apply in the case of a coup rather than an attack from a country outside the alliance.

Article 5 has only been invoked once since NATO was signed in 1949, by the U.S. following the September 11, 2001 attacks.

Turkey has also been destabilized as civil war rages in neighboring Syria. The border between the countries has been porous, allowing foreign fighters seeking to join the Islamic State group to flow into Syria.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/article89937372.html

Gunny
07-15-2016, 06:04 PM
Obama's probably in the Oval Office circling like Curly wondering how to cave in.

Kathianne
07-15-2016, 06:09 PM
People are hitting the street. I think we'll see soon whether against or for Erodogan. The military did NOT want people out, the administration did.

Gunny
07-15-2016, 06:15 PM
People are hitting the street. I think we'll see soon whether against or for Erodogan. The military did NOT want people out, the administration did.

Turkey has been and is still the bridge between Europe and Asia. It's been fought over since the days of Sparta. Strategically, we cannot afford to lose it as an ally. I just hope Obama doesn't jack this up like everything else he touches.

namvet
07-15-2016, 06:17 PM
house cleaning

Black Diamond
07-15-2016, 06:17 PM
Could Russia be eyeing the straits of Bosporus and Dardanelles?

Gunny
07-15-2016, 06:29 PM
Could Russia be eyeing the straits of Bosporus and Dardanelles?

Who knows what Putin is doing? No one's stopping any one of these land-grabbers. They're doing whatever they want. And Hitlery's commercial says she stood up to Putin. Right. And I have hair. :rolleyes:

Here's Obama's legacy: He's destabilized the world.

Kathianne
07-15-2016, 06:39 PM
Erodogan is pretty hardline Muslim. He has purged the military as much as he could up until now. The military has been more secular and pro-freedom, so if the coup is failing, more purges and less freedom.

jimnyc
07-15-2016, 06:47 PM
I've been getting the best up to the minute news from Al Jazeera, believe it or not. http://live.aljazeera.com/Event/TURKEY_COUP_ATTEMPT

-----

Seventeen police officers killed in a helicopter attack on Ankara special forces headquarters, according to state-run Anadolu news agency.

...

The head of the largest opposition party in Turkey, Kemal Kalicdaroglu of the centre-left People's Republican Party (CHP), has come out against the coup attempt in a series of tweets, saying the country has "suffered a lot" in past military takeovers. (DPA)

...

Former Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu has condemned the ongoing military coup in the country as an "attack against democracy".

"Turkey is a democracy. There is no question of legitimacy in Turkey. There is a legitimate government," Davutoglu said in an interview with Al Jazeera.

"I don't think this attempt is going to be successful. Whatever is the price we will protect our democracy," Davutoglu, a former foreign minister said, appealing to international organisations to support the elected government.

...

UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has appealed for calm in Turkey, following reports of a coup attempt, a UN spokesman said.

"The Secretary-General is closely following developments in Turkey. He is aware of the reports of a coup attempt in the country. The United Nations is seeking to clarify the situation on the ground and appeals for calm," said spokesman Farhan Haq.

Turkey's military said on Friday it had seized power but President Tayyip Erdogan vowed that the attempted coup would be put down. (Reuters)

Gunny
07-15-2016, 06:48 PM
Erodogan is pretty hardline Muslim. He has purged the military as much as he could up until now. The military has been more secular and pro-freedom, so if the coup is failing, more purges and less freedom.

Honestly, who knows, Kath? Turks are weird. I know how they think militarily. Why they think what they do? I never got it. I understand the Japanese better.

If Turkey becomes another Islamic state, we're in trouble.

jimnyc
07-15-2016, 06:49 PM
https://i.imgur.com/PqTwI7g.jpg

Gunny
07-15-2016, 06:54 PM
https://i.imgur.com/PqTwI7g.jpg


Kerry is an embarrassment and an idiot. "Gravest concerns"? What he's going to do? Sell them some nukes? Or just run over and surrender.

I hate to even say this but he disgusts me more than Obama. What a couple of spineless, yellow pussies.

Kathianne
07-15-2016, 06:57 PM
Honestly, who knows, Kath? Turks are weird. I know how they think militarily. Why they think what they do? I never got it. I understand the Japanese better.

If Turkey becomes another Islamic state, we're in trouble.
Turkey has been moving in that direction for quite awhile now.

Elessar
07-15-2016, 07:32 PM
For one thing...since it is internal and not by outside forces, I doubt the
NATO treaty applies....

Plus, anyone expecting Obama to do anything is deluded.

Gunny
07-15-2016, 07:41 PM
For one thing...since it is internal and not by outside forces, I doubt the
NATO treaty applies....

Plus, anyone expecting Obama to do anything is deluded.

When's that ever stopped us? Oh yeah. 2008.

PixieStix
07-15-2016, 07:44 PM
As usual Obama is on the wrong side. As usual the media is fear mongering, and are on the wrong side as well. If the coup is successful, in the long run, that is a great thing

Elessar
07-15-2016, 07:44 PM
When's that ever stopped us? Oh yeah. 2008.

One Word Reply: "Exactly".

PixieStix
07-15-2016, 07:54 PM
Obama and our media is the propaganda wing of Islamism. They have been from day one.

Kathianne
07-15-2016, 08:20 PM
Woosley is saying they fear this maybe Erdogan 'head fake' to further purge opposition.

Hmmmm

Elessar
07-15-2016, 09:46 PM
Woosley is saying they fear this maybe Erdogan 'head fake' to further purge opposition.

Hmmmm

That could be...but with the nincompoops we have in D.C. presently I seriously
doubt we should be treading in thin ice with media opinions.

Someone more skilled than Kerry, Obama, or Clinton should address this issue.

Gunny
07-15-2016, 11:13 PM
That could be...but with the nincompoops we have in D.C. presently I seriously
doubt we should be treading in thin ice with media opinions.

Someone more skilled than Kerry, Obama, or Clinton should address this issue.

:stooges:

Kathianne
07-16-2016, 04:22 AM
Well, whatever was done, whomever here mishandled or shined, it appears that coup has failed.

Certainly looks like Turkey is likely to be more radical.

Noir
07-16-2016, 04:40 AM
Mutterings that this coup was known about and allowed to happen because of the lack of organisation within the coup leadership. Crackpot conspiracy, or well calculated bluff? Either way I expect the president will be ruthless in his response.

Kathianne
07-16-2016, 04:41 AM
Mutterings that this coup was known about and allowed to happen because of the lack of organisation within the coup leadership. Crackpot conspiracy, or well calculated bluff? Either way I expect the president will be ruthless in his response.

Agreed. Lots here on the Erdogan years towards radicalization within government and away from secular government:



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-15/turkish-premier-says-elements-of-army-attempt-to-seize-power

Kathianne
07-16-2016, 05:06 AM
One more for now:

http://neoneocon.com/2016/07/15/has-the-coup-against-erdogan-failed/



I was watching Fox News about an hour ago and most of the commentators seemed to be guessing that the coup in Turkey has failed and Erdogan is in control.

If true, this would not be a good outcome. The thought is that this will strengthen him and he will use it as a way to make himself—and his restrictions on dissent and opponents—even more powerful.


Meanwhile, President Obama has been backing Erdogan as the democratically elected leader of the country. However, not only is Erdogan an Islamist who would like to make religion a much bigger part of the traditionally secular Turkish government, but he is a power-hungry wannabee dictator a la Chavez (Muslim-style). Back in May theNY Times reported on (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/05/05/turkeys-erdogan-tightens-his-grip-on-power/) a power grab:



Erdogan occupies what is supposed to be a nonpartisan, ceremonial role in a parliamentary democracy, where Davutoglu, a longstanding ally, was technically the leader. After serving as foreign minister for years while Erdogan was prime minister, Davutoglu became prime minister when Erdogan chose to run for the presidency in 2014. Davutoglu, it was imagined, would be the soft-spoken, bookish vizier to the tough, populist president.


A little background here—Erdogan had already served (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/turkey-ahmet-davutoglu-resigns_us_572b4fdee4b096e9f090617a) three terms as Prime Minister, the constitutional limit. Therefore this “chose to run for the presidency” business (the phrase the Times used) was because he was unable to remain as PM and yet wanted to remain in power, as others have done before him (Putin did (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin#Second_premiership_.282008.E2.80.93 2012.29) a version of it in Russia, for example, from 2008-2012, although the titles were different). So Erdogan had every intention of remaining fully in charge—whatever his title and the relative powerlessness that was supposed to accompany it—and he did.
More:


Erdogan and his colleagues made (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/05/05/turkeys-erdogan-tightens-his-grip-on-power/) no secret of their desire to rewrite the country’s constitution — drafted by a military government in the 1980s — and expand the powers of an executive presidency…


Despite internal unease within the ruling Justice and Development Party, known by the Turkish abbreviation AKP, and heated protests from political foes, Davutoglu and other party officials embraced their president’s agenda, at least publicly.


Parliamentary elections last June threw a wrench in the works. Opposition to Erdogan’s push for a presidential system, as well as the rise of a leftist, pro-Kurdish party, saw the AKP lose its parliamentary majority for the first time in over a decade. This prompted months of discord and acrimony as Turkey’s parties proved unable to form a successful coalition government, an outcome which Erdogan’s opponents claimed was precisely what the president wanted.


New elections in November followed a wave of instability and violence across the country. The polls restored the AKP’s commanding majority in parliament and gave fresh momentum to Erdogan’s plans to reshape the pillars of the Turkish state.
Reports suggest the relationship between Erdogan and Davutoglu has been rocky for quite some time — with the latter frustrated by the former’s clampdown on political freedoms, including the arrests of academics and journalists, and wary of scrapping the parliamentary system for a presidential one.


Then Davutoglu, who is supposed to be the actual “democratically elected leader” of Turkey in conformance with the Turkish constitution and the title he holds (Prime Minister), was actually ousted recently in a power move by Erdogan, who is supposed to be the figurehead under him. Of course, the positions have always been reversed in this strange simulacrum of a democracy:



The clearest sign in the collapse of the tandem’s relationship came last week when Erdogan loyalists voted to strip Davutoglu of the power to appoint provincial-level party officials, something that he, as the sitting head of the party, would be expected to do.


Then, in May, Davutoglu announced (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/turkey-ahmet-davutoglu-resigns_us_572b4fdee4b096e9f090617a) his early retirement:

Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu — Turkey’s leading political figure, at least on paper — announced Thursday that he plans to step down from power after less than two years in office…


Citing a “premature end” of his four-year-term, Davutoglu’s resignation comes amid concerns over Erdogan’s increasing authoritarianism, and many observers fear it will enable the president to further consolidate his power.


And then—surprise, surprise—a new Prime Minister was selected (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/05/turkey-prime-minister/483842/) who turned out to be a strong ally of Erdogan’s:



Binali Yildirim, the country’s minister of transport, maritime, and communication, received 1,405 out of a total of 1,470 votes at a meeting of the Justice and Development Party, or AKP. Yildirim was the sole candidate for chairman at the special session called after Ahmet Davutoglu announced earlier this month he would not seek re-election.
Yildirim is a longtime ally of Erdogan…


Erdogan has been trying to consolidate the two offices in Turkey into one, giving himself more power. But with the selection of Yildirim, he pretty much did that already, because Yildirim is Erdogan’s yes-man.


Which brings us to today’s coup, or today’s coup that may have failed, and Obama’s early support for the Erdogan forces. This is giving me an extremely creepy deja vu feeling that harks back to one of the earliest things Obama ever did as president, support the wrong side in Honduras. I wrote many many posts on the Honduras matter at the time and later (here’s (http://neoneocon.com/2014/11/15/obama-and-honduras-2009-portent-of-things-to-come/) a relatively recent one).
The details in Honduras were rather different from those in Turkey. Butthis (http://neoneocon.com/2009/07/13/why-honduras-matters/) is what I wrote back in 2009 about what the side Obama supported in Honduras was trying to do there, and it somewhat resembles what the Erdogan side has been doing in Turkey in its consolidation of power:


The way is clear: tyrants very often use “democracy” as an excuse to get the people to override a constitution and grant them what turns out to be dictatorial, or near-dictatorial, powers, as well as the ability to extend or abolish term limits and stay in power longer than the constitution says (and in many cases indefinitely). Once the rules are changed about term limits, and power is consolidated and the voting apparatus compromised, staying in power is a relatively easy matter, really a trifle.

jimnyc
07-16-2016, 05:45 AM
I'm curious, as someone who has little knowledge about such things.

The military tried a coup. They initially looked strong, even bombing the police. But I ultimately wake up this morning to find out they failed. WHO held them back? A different portion of the military? Police?

Kathianne
07-16-2016, 05:48 AM
I'm curious, as someone who has little knowledge about such things.

The military tried a coup. They initially looked strong, even bombing the police. But I ultimately wake up this morning to find out they failed. WHO held them back? A different portion of the military? Police?

The people. The military wasn't going to kill civilians, at least not when it could be helped. They too come from the 'populace.' Thus they surrendered.

Erdogan did a great play of social media, calling for the people to rise up. It worked.

jimnyc
07-16-2016, 05:57 AM
The people. The military wasn't going to kill civilians, at least not when it could be helped. They too come from the 'populace.' Thus they surrendered.

Erdogan did a great play of social media, calling for the people to rise up. It worked.

Interesting. That's the one angle I actually didn't consider. I think it was a good choice for the military. Can you imagine if they took out some civilians? Yikes.

I'm not calling for it (cool your heels invasive NSA!!).... but I personally think it would be funny to see our military show up in DC and escort out the entire lot of them!!

Kathianne
07-16-2016, 06:08 AM
Interesting. That's the one angle I actually didn't consider. I think it was a good choice for the military. Can you imagine if they took out some civilians? Yikes.

I'm not calling for it (cool your heels invasive NSA!!).... but I personally think it would be funny to see our military show up in DC and escort out the entire lot of them!!


I'd bet that very quickly you'll be seeing many purges in Turkey and a quick rise in radical Islam from there.

Kathianne
07-16-2016, 06:49 AM
Hanson on Turkey last December:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/427884/turkey-erdogan-islamic-state-western-alliance


...Yet the more Obama has appeased Erdogan, the more anti-Western and anti-American Turkey has become.

Erdogan has insidiously eroded Turkish democracy, free speech, and human rights. He is turning the once-secular state into an Islamic nation. Thousands of Turkish soccer fans recently shouted “Allahu Akbar” when asked for a moment of silence to honor the victims of the Paris terrorist attacks. So much for NATO solidarity.

Under Erdogan, the new Turkish model is not the secular modern state of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. Instead, Erdogan praises the ancient Ottoman caliphate, whose theocratic empire once ranged from the Persian Gulf to southern Europe.

When the Muslim Brotherhood tried to dismantle secular government in Egypt, Erdogan egged them on and was instrumental in persuading the Obama administration to adopt a disastrous policy of support for the Brotherhood.

Erdogan used to visit Europe and chide its leaders over their supposed mistreatment of Islamic immigrants. But at home, he has increasingly marginalized the few Turks who are not Muslims.

...

Erdogan used to visit Europe and chide its leaders over their supposed mistreatment of Islamic immigrants. But at home, he has increasingly marginalized the few Turks who are not Muslims.

Small, vulnerable nations and peoples of the region — Armenians, Greeks, and Kurds — used to be terrified of Turkish aggression. They are starting to become afraid again under Erdogan’s new Islamic militancy.

...

All that can be said for Obama’s current “model relationship” is that Turkey is strategically located, with a large and powerful military, and hosts NATO bases. Those facts make it wise to keep Turkey neutral rather than hostile.

Otherwise, Erdogan’s Turkey is an ally in name only. In reality, it is becoming a de facto enemy. Suddenly, Turkey’s NATO membership is important to Erdogan in his dispute with Putin. But the real irony is that the autocratic Erdogan is the dictatorial Putin’s mirror image.

No two leaders deserve each other more.

Noir
07-16-2016, 07:40 AM
The fact that this story could be summarised as 'Milatary Coup try and overthrow democraticly elected president and fail because of the will of the states citizens' and that's the *bad* outcome is a sobering thought.

Also so the irony that the President may owe his position/title/life to the call he put out on social media that he has been trying to clamp down on/censor is amusingly morbid.

Noir
07-16-2016, 08:07 AM
And the first 'after the fighting' victims? Judges apparently, with over 2,000 being fired...

jimnyc
07-16-2016, 08:35 AM
The fact that this story could be summarised as 'Milatary Coup try and overthrow democraticly elected president and fail because of the will of the states citizens' and that's the *bad* outcome is a sobering thought.

Also so the irony that the President may owe his position/title/life to the call he put out on social media that he has been trying to clamp down on/censor is amusingly morbid.

Ain't it? The more I read about it the more I think it would have been better if they were successful, but that's me, and I'm a little loony. And the more I read, the more I fail to understand why some folks want to live in countries under certain types of ruling.

I think I heard on the radio that there were a few hundred dead already? And perhaps thousands jailed, and thousands to come? Is that true?

jimnyc
07-16-2016, 08:36 AM
Hmmmm.... this sounds familiar, unfortunately. These folks sure do like collecting heads.

-----

Turkish soldier 'beheaded by pro-government mob

A Turkish soldier has reportedly been beheaded on Istanbul's Bosphorus Bridge by a pro-government mob.

Graphic video footage and images online show the soldier lying on the ground surrounded by a pool of blood.

He can be seen with horrific injuries after the attack.

He reportedly surrendered after last night's failed coup attempt but was allegedly attacked by pro-government supporters.

More than 2,500 soldiers have been detained by Turkish authorities following the failed coup attempt.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/turkish-soldier-beheaded-pro-government-8433319

Kathianne
07-20-2016, 07:25 AM
Erodogan is pretty hardline Muslim. He has purged the military as much as he could up until now. The military has been more secular and pro-freedom, so if the coup is failing, more purges and less freedom.


So, was it a 'coup attempt' or was it an excuse for further purge? Early on there were comparison with Reichstag Fire:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/turkey-coup-conspiracy-theory-erdogan-military-gift-from-god-soldiers-istanbul-a7140516.html




Turkey coup attempt: Crackdown toll passes 50,000 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36842073)

5 hours ago

From the section





...

Noir
07-20-2016, 07:38 AM
Yeah the more that comes out the more this all looks like a well planned operation. The real coup is happening now - the primary goal of which is to dislodge any aspects of secularism still in place.

revelarts
07-20-2016, 07:46 AM
About a year+ back I listened to some reports on Turkey.
the former FBI translator and former Turkish Citizen Sibel Edmonds predicted that there would be a coup attempt on Erdogan’s government of some kind. But she framed it as something more akin to the coup of the former Egyptian leader Mubarack, Saddam Hussin and others. Our former "good friends" who were suddenly painted as a horrible dictators. And that there were actually more issues with the US gov't's thinking that Erdogan’s government wasn't playing ball in the way we wanted than with the Turkish military being the keepers of Turkish democracy. Especially since the previous rulers were far worse tyrants than Erdogan ever was up to this point. She explains that the Military and Secret service higher ups are all trained and connected to the US.. That the Turkish ISI (Turkey's CIA) is joined at the hip with the CIA. Plus the Turkish Coup leader, a muslim imam/cult brand with madrases around the world, lives the U.S. and is supported with billions in mysterious funding.

She outlines a solid background for what seems to be taking place.
there are interesting details in these long interviews but if anyone's interested.

West Prepares to Replace Their Puppet in Turkey posted Dec 22, 2015

Sibel Edmonds of BoilingFrogsPost.com joins us once again to discuss the ongoing “reverse engineering” of Erdogan by the NATO/CIA/Kurdish/Israeli/Russian forces that oppose him. We talk about the hypocritical and nearly-unanimous coverage of Erdogan’s abuses and how and why this narrative is converging now to finish the US/NATO task of removing him from office to usher in a more pliable puppet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxvPfWkYyUo


Interview 809 – Sibel Edmonds Explains Erdogan’s Fall From Grace
01/21/2014
http://www.corbettreport.com/intervi...ll-from-grace/ (http://www.corbettreport.com/interview-809-sibel-edmonds-explains-erdogans-fall-from-grace/)

Interview 1120 – Sibel Edmonds Explains The Erdogan Takedown
12/23/2015
http://www.corbettreport.com/intervi...ogan-takedown/ (http://www.corbettreport.com/interview-1120-sibel-edmonds-explains-the-erdogan-takedown/)

Drummond
07-20-2016, 05:52 PM
Yeah the more that comes out the more this all looks like a well planned operation. The real coup is happening now - the primary goal of which is to dislodge any aspects of secularism still in place.

You're saying that the military coup wasn't real ? Seriously ?

Well then, Noir. I shall wait for you to prove your case !!

Noir
07-20-2016, 05:59 PM
You're saying that the military coup wasn't real ? Seriously ?

Well then, Noir. I shall wait for you to prove your case !!

You can start by reading the posts in this thread.

Gunny
07-20-2016, 06:06 PM
You can start by reading the posts in this thread.

I find it amusing that a lackey for the BBC would accuse anyone else of censorship. The fact that you cannot see your own hypocrisy is where YOU need to start.

Noir
07-20-2016, 06:12 PM
I find it amusing that a lackey for the BBC would accuse anyone else of censorship. The fact that you cannot see your own hypocrisy is where YOU need to start.

Since when am I a "lackey for the BBC"?

Gunny
07-20-2016, 06:15 PM
Since when am I a "lackey for the BBC"?

You sound just like them. You're against anything that has any logic or common sense. You think the world revolves around what you believe but refuse to see it for what it actually is.

How many WW's do we have to fight that cost us the blood of our friends and children because y'all won't stop this crap before it starts?

Kathianne
07-20-2016, 06:20 PM
Within hours of the 'coup' it became clear that more likely to be a fake crisis constructed to further plunge Turkey towards Islamic extremism, by consolidating power in Erdogan's hands.

It's becoming more clear by the day:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/21/world/europe/turkey-erdogan-gulen.html


Erdogan Declares 3-Month State of Emergency in Turkey

Of concern to NATO:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/20/middleeast/turkey-military-failed-coup/


ANKARA — Turkey (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/turkey/index.html?inline=nyt-geo)’s president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/e/recep_tayyip_erdogan/index.html?inline=nyt-per), declared a three-month state of emergency on Wednesday that he said would enable his government to cleanse the military of individuals who tried to topple his government.

The state of emergency would further expand Mr. Erdogan’s powers after the firing and suspension of thousands of soldiers and civil servants (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/19/world/europe/turkey-erdogan-crackdown.html) in recent days on suspicion of complicity in an attempted coup last week.


In a televised address, Mr. Erdogan said Wednesday that the extra powers were needed to protect Turkey’s democracy, and he criticized Western nations who have accused his government of overreaching in its efforts to root out suspected opponents.

...


What does arresting 9,000 officers do to Turkey's military readiness?...

Turkey has a conscript army and is estimated to have over 500,000 people in its armed forces (https://www.iiss.org/en/publications/military-s-balance). The current detentions you might assume barely scratch the surface of a force with such a deep bench strength.


But the reality is, among those thousands detained are over 100 top generals and admirals -- that's one third of the military's command, which has NATO allies worried. Many of their long-time military partners are gone, raising concerns around who they deal with and whom can they trust.

...


http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/07/20/turkey-coup-islam-erdogan-sharia-sultan-caliphate-crackdown-democracy-column/87344676/


<section id="module-position-PM9Xm0QoHp0" class="storytopbar-bucket story-headline-module story-story-headline-module" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; line-height: 22.4px;">Turkey's new sultan: Glenn Reynolds

</section><section id="module-position-PM9Xm0QDZW0" class="storytopbar-bucket story-byline-module story-story-byline-module" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; line-height: 22.4px;"></section>
The German term is gleichschaltung. It means "re-ordering (http://www.history-ontheweb.co.uk/concepts/concept72_gleichschaltung.htm)." After the Nazi Party secured its grip on power, it initiated a process whereby all organizations — universities, law enforcement, private clubs, whatever — were stripped of independence and brought into line with National Socialist principles or suppressed entirely.


Now it seems as if the same thing is happening in Turkey. After the suppression of a coup attempt that, in retrospect, seems to have been rather contrived, Turkish ruler Recip Erdogan is going after an extensive list of people he has deemed undesirable.
...

The Turkish military served for decades as the guardian of Ataturk’s secular republic; if things looked as if they were getting out of line, it would stage a coup, (http://observer.com/2016/07/turkeys-weekend-of-the-long-knives/) and do so rather more effectively than happened on July 16th. In the wake of that event, Erdogan has rounded up (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/turkey-coup-erdogan-purge-military-judges-criminals-getting-rid-of-secular-a7141556.html) at least 6,000 soldiers and 3,000 judges and legal officials (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/turkey-coup-latest-news-erdogan-istanbul-judges-removed-from-duty-failed-government-overthrow-a7140661.html)since the coup attempt. It’s very doubtful that they were involved in the coup (if that many had been involved, it might have succeeded). He’s also fired over 15,000 educators, (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/turkey-jails-generals-as-post-coup-purge-widens/2016/07/19/db076c84-4d1f-11e6-bf27-405106836f96_story.html) who had nothing to do with the coup. Tens of thousands (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36843657) have been sacked or jailed. Turkish academics traveling abroad have been ordered to return home. (http://www.dw.com/en/academics-banned-from-traveling-as-erdogan-convenes-cabinet-security-council/a-19414290?maca=en-TWITTER-EN-2004-xml-mrss) The crackdown toll is now over 50,000 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36842073?ocid=socialflow_twitter).

t seems paranoid. But what Erdogan is really doing is eradicating the last remnants of the secular Turkish state, as he proceeds to turn Turkey into, instead, an Islamic State. As he builds an enormous palace, (http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/19/inside-erdogans-palace-the-500-million-mansion-turkeys-president-calls-home-6015161/) consolidates power, and elevates Islamists over secular types, it almost looks as if he’s trying to restore the Ottoman Empire with himself in the role of Sultan. In fact, Erdogan has made that comparison himself. (http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323469804578523143694345664)


Back when he was mayor of Istanbul, Erdogan said that "Democracy is like a streetcar. When you come to your stop, you get off." By all appearances, he has reached his stop.


This is, needless to say, bad news for Europe and the West. For many decades, Turkey was a staunch NATO ally, guarding the southern flank against the <culink class="culinks" culang="en" href="http://curiyo.com/en/topic/Soviet Union" title="" style="border-bottom-width: 1px; cursor: help; z-index: 9000; border-bottom-style: dashed !important; display: inline !important; float: none !important; padding: 0px !important; margin: 0px !important; border-bottom-color: rgb(100, 98, 94) !important; background: inherit !important;">Soviet Union</culink>. Turkey still has the second-largest army in NATO (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/07/19/turkeys-increasingly-complicated-relationship-with-nato/). But how much longer can Turkey remain in NATO if it becomes an Islamic state with a politics, and a foreign policy, that are inconsistent with the peace and security of Europe?

Gunny
07-20-2016, 06:24 PM
Within hours of the 'coup' it became clear that more likely to be a fake crisis constructed to further plunge Turkey towards Islamic extremism, by consolidating power in Erdogan's hands.

It's becoming more clear by the day:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/21/world/europe/turkey-erdogan-gulen.html



Of concern to NATO:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/20/middleeast/turkey-military-failed-coup/






http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/07/20/turkey-coup-islam-erdogan-sharia-sultan-caliphate-crackdown-democracy-column/87344676/

Look for a REAL civil war in the queue. Atatuck has a lot of followers to this day.

Kathianne
07-20-2016, 06:29 PM
Look for a REAL civil war in the queue. Atatuck has a lot of followers to this day.
It depends upon what Noir said, will they kill off the 'moderates' and Christians?

Gunny
07-20-2016, 06:56 PM
It depends upon what Noir said, will they kill off the 'moderates' and Christians?

I'm honestly not sure. It's the nationalists that followed ataturk that have to be worried about. Not by us. We supported his regime. Turkey was a lone country the Soviets did not attack. I know from talking to Turk nationalists they aren't going to give in without a fight.

How Islam fits in I don't know. Turkey is a crossroads. All religions are there. Remember Constantine? All religions are there. Not to mention a whole bunch of gypsies.

If Turkey falls, Europe is screwed.

Noir
07-20-2016, 07:10 PM
You sound just like them. You're against anything that has any logic or common sense. You think the world revolves around what you believe but refuse to see it for what it actually is.

How many WW's do we have to fight that cost us the blood of our friends and children because y'all won't stop this crap before it starts?

Sure sure, just mouthing off as usual I see.
Lets just stick with the tread being about Turkey since the world doesn't revolve around me, eh ;D

Gunny
07-20-2016, 07:19 PM
Sure sure, just mouthing off as usual I see.
Lets just stick with the tread being about Turkey since the world doesn't revolve around me, eh ;D

I lived in Turkey for 2 and a half years. How long were you there?

Drummond
07-20-2016, 08:46 PM
You can start by reading the posts in this thread.

How ? Speculation isn't proof.

Where's the proof of what you'd like to assert ?

Gunny
07-20-2016, 09:03 PM
How ? Speculation isn't proof.

Where's the proof of what you'd like to assert ?

He's just jerking off. Apparently the amount of time he spent in Turkey is Top Secret. Yet he likes to tell those of us that lived there what it's all about. Gotta love guys like that. :laugh:

Noir
07-20-2016, 09:05 PM
How ? Speculation isn't proof.

Where's the proof of what you'd like to assert ?

The president of the country is currently laying waste to universitiy deans, school teachers, and judges, while also cracking down on the freedom of its citizens to access social media and blocking non-state-approved media from being accessed, and here sits you with the 'show me the proof'?!?
Make use of your computer and see what ends you arrive at. You are witness to the Islamic takeover of a previously secular nation, and yet apparently blind to it. Who'd of thunk.

Kathianne
07-20-2016, 09:13 PM
The president of the country is currently laying waste to universitiy deans, school teachers, and judges, while also cracking down on the freedom of its citizens to access social media and blocking non-state-approved media from being accessed, and here sits you with the 'show me the proof'?!?
Make use of your computer and see what ends you arrive at. You are witness to the Islamic takeover of a previously secular nation, and yet apparently blind to it. Who'd of thunk.

Indeed.

Gunny
07-20-2016, 09:19 PM
The president of the country is currently laying waste to universitiy deans, school teachers, and judges, while also cracking down on the freedom of its citizens to access social media and blocking non-state-approved media from being accessed, and here sits you with the 'show me the proof'?!?
Make use of your computer and see what ends you arrive at. You are witness to the Islamic takeover of a previously secular nation, and yet apparently blind to it. Who'd of thunk.

This is rich coming from you. So we cam go kill them, right? Or are you going to apologize for them?

revelarts
07-20-2016, 10:28 PM
Sibel Edmonds Recent Update


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxpuotIMlY0

Noir
07-21-2016, 08:40 AM
Reports floating that the Turkish executive plans to suspend the European Human Rights Convention.
But where's the proof that that's a bad thing, right?

Kathianne
07-21-2016, 08:52 AM
Reports floating that the Turkish executive plans to suspend the European Human Rights Convention.
But where's the proof that that's a bad thing, right?

Trump says the US has no right to talk about these things, not with folks killing police right here.

Noir
07-21-2016, 08:56 AM
Trump says the US has no right to talk about these things, not with folks killing police right here.

Well a great way to not have to answer difficult questions is to say 'let's not talk about it'.
A+ presidential material.

Drummond
07-21-2016, 08:56 AM
The president of the country is currently laying waste to universitiy deans, school teachers, and judges, while also cracking down on the freedom of its citizens to access social media and blocking non-state-approved media from being accessed, and here sits you with the 'show me the proof'?!?
Make use of your computer and see what ends you arrive at. You are witness to the Islamic takeover of a previously secular nation, and yet apparently blind to it. Who'd of thunk.

States of emergency (which has now been declared in Turkey) will see crackdowns occur. You generalise about university deans, judges, etc ... but inbuilt into those choices is a perception that this is ALL they were. Just ... what ? Ordinary people, unconnected with insurrectionist activities ? Do you KNOW that, for a fact ?

... the fact is, you assume much - but actually know little. You don't know the case histories of those who've been arrested, for example. You just come up with blanket assumptions. The situation in Turkey is bound to be way more complicated than you'd be willing to recognise. And in the coming weeks, maybe media input will prove it.

Kathianne
07-21-2016, 09:04 AM
Well a great way to not have to answer difficult questions is to say 'let's not talk about it'.
A+ presidential material.


I'm pretty certain that is 'leading from behind.' Oh well.

Gunny
07-21-2016, 04:36 PM
Well a great way to not have to answer difficult questions is to say 'let's not talk about it'.
A+ presidential material.

You're not addressing her point, junior. I suppose it zoomed over your head?

We don't need to be policing others when we can't police ourselves. The President of the US is not actually in charge of the world, nor bound to bail YOU out. His first job is to protect the US.

Kathianne
07-21-2016, 04:40 PM
You're not addressing her point, junior. I suppose it zoomed over your head?

We don't need to be policing others when we can't police ourselves. The President of the US is not actually in charge of the world, nor bound to bail YOU out. His first job is to protect the US.
Oh I was being fully sarcastic there. I'm pretty sure you too can read the tea leaves that it's likely within days that the 'new sharia based Turkey' will close that airbase?

Do you really think that Trump's response was right?

Do you really think that if it were Obama or Kerry saying something along the same lines, which they have over and over again, it wouldn't be added to their 'apology tour'?

Gunny
07-21-2016, 04:54 PM
Oh I was being fully sarcastic there. I'm pretty sure you too can read the tea leaves that it's likely within days that the 'new sharia based Turkey' will close that airbase?

Do you really think that Trump's response was right?

Do you really think that if it were Obama or Kerry saying something along the same lines, which they have over and over again, it wouldn't be added to their 'apology tour'?

Yes and no. If we are going to mind everyone else's business, we need to get ours in order first. Everything starts from the ground floor. We can't secure our own borders. Why trust us to secure yours?

Kathianne
07-21-2016, 04:55 PM
It does appear that may are not concerned with policies all that much right now. I just wish that everyone would give a thought or two to what has happened everytime. Everytime, the US has turned isolationist.


I'd also consider how much 'less time' it now takes to go from talking to crisis. In the 30's FDR, like Wilson the war before, ran to keep us out. Indeed many politicians and commentators at the time could see 'the good things' that Mussolini and Hitler were accomplishing while reneging on treaties. Not without the repercussions.


Worth reading from today: Its Official: Hillary Clinton Is Running Against Vladimir Putin - The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/07/clinton-trump-putin-nato/492332/)


It refers back to this mean headlined, but verified story on Manafort. Paul Manafort isns made a career of reinventing tyrants and despots. (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/04/paul_manafort_isn_t_a_gop_retread_he_s_made_a_care er_of_reinventing_tyrants.html)

Drummond
07-21-2016, 06:24 PM
Reports floating that the Turkish executive plans to suspend the European Human Rights Convention.
But where's the proof that that's a bad thing, right?

- Meant as a joke ?

There are various examples of bad judgments they've most definitely foisted on the UK !!

See ...

http://www.channel4.com/news/human-rights-european-court-forced-uk-rulings


Abu Qatada
In January 2012, the ECHR blocked the deportation of radical cleric Abu Qatada to Jordan, because of fears that evidence obtained under torture would be used against him in his home country. The extremist preacher had been found not guilty of terrorism offences after an eight year legal battle.

The ruling, based on the right to a fair trial, was slammed as "completely unacceptable" by David Cameron and forced Home Secretary Theresa May to agree a new treaty with Jordan, guaranteeing him a free trial. This eventually convinced the court to allow his deportation in July 2013.

Prisoners' vote
In 2005, the ECHR ruled that banning prisoners from voting - in the UK and in other countries - was a breach of their human rights and unlawful. Mr Cameron responded by saying that the idea of prisoners voting made him feel "physically ill", and parliament has so far resisted implementing the ruling.

Which raises one puzzling point: although members states are supposed to be obliged to stick to ECHR rulings, they can apparently resist and appeal. This is currently happening in Ireland, where parliament is resisting calls from the ECHR to revise its abortion law which it said treated women as "a vessel, nothing more".

Whole-life sentences
Another controversial ruling from July last year regards dishing out whole life sentences to prisoners and stems from a case brought by three multiple murderers, including Jeremy Bamber. Judges ruled that that a whole-life tariff breached article 3 of the convention, which prohibits torture.

QC Peter Weatherby, who represented the three prisoners, said that even if prisoners are never released, "they should not have all prospect of future release taken away at the outset of their sentence".

In practice, this means that prisoners should be entitled to a review at some point in their sentence, and the possibility of parole if they have reformed.

I suspect that, following the unsuccessful coup attempt in Turkey, what's really wanted is the ECHR kept from foisting looney Leftieism upon a situation absolutely NOT requiring it !!!

Elessar
07-21-2016, 07:35 PM
Well a great way to not have to answer difficult questions is to say 'let's not talk about it'.
A+ presidential material.

Well, he is right.

Turkey is Obama's problem for now, not Trump's. He may inherit it, but Hillary
certainly is not the solution.

Of course, Obama will drop the ball and run again just like he has
for 7.5 years.

Why don't you worry about your own internal upheavals instead of
chattering nonsensical crap this way? Been booted off too many U.K. forums?
I know some can be unforgiving.

Gunny
07-21-2016, 08:11 PM
It does appear that may are not concerned with policies all that much right now. I just wish that everyone would give a thought or two to what has happened everytime. Everytime, the US has turned isolationist.


I'd also consider how much 'less time' it now takes to go from talking to crisis. In the 30's FDR, like Wilson the war before, ran to keep us out. Indeed many politicians and commentators at the time could see 'the good things' that Mussolini and Hitler were accomplishing while reneging on treaties. Not without the repercussions.


Worth reading from today: Its Official: Hillary Clinton Is Running Against Vladimir Putin - The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/07/clinton-trump-putin-nato/492332/)


It refers back to this mean headlined, but verified story on Manafort. Paul Manafort isns made a career of reinventing tyrants and despots. (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/04/paul_manafort_isn_t_a_gop_retread_he_s_made_a_care er_of_reinventing_tyrants.html)

I am by no means suggesting isolationism, ma'am. What I continue to suggest is thinking. We have about as much of a plan as a nation as the RNC has. Get a plan and move forward.

We had the Middle East contained and Obama has turned it into an ant hill spreading everywhere. Contain them. Solidify our position. Then take them out.

Kathianne
07-21-2016, 08:25 PM
I am by no means suggesting isolationism, ma'am. What I continue to suggest is thinking. We have about as much of a plan as a nation as the RNC has. Get a plan and move forward.

We had the Middle East contained and Obama has turned it into an ant hill spreading everywhere. Contain them. Solidify our position. Then take them out.

Is the Turkish air base important to US interest in Europe and ME?

Do we want a new Soviet Union or a new version of it?

Should anyone outside of government even worry their little heads about any of this? The numerous attacks we've witnessed in the past decade or so?

If folks don't see the Trump way is a version of what Obama has been doing, I really don't know what to say. Hillary will do much similar.

Abandon our friends? WTF is NATO? I'm not saying that we don't have the right to chastise IN PRIVATE on paying bills, but not when confronting enemies. It's an excuse, made more clear by 'Have to look at the treaty details.' aka litigation over action.

Even with Iran the take is to rework the deal, still dealing.

Gunny
07-21-2016, 08:33 PM
Is the Turkish air base important to US interest in Europe and ME?

Do we want a new Soviet Union or a new version of it?

Should anyone outside of government even worry their little heads about any of this? The numerous attacks we've witnessed in the past decade or so?

If folks don't see the Trump way is a version of what Obama has been doing, I really don't know what to say. Hillary will do much similar.

Abandon our friends? WTF is NATO? I'm not saying that we don't have the right to chastise IN PRIVATE on paying bills, but not when confronting enemies. It's an excuse, made more clear by 'Have to look at the treaty details.' aka litigation over action.

Even with Iran the take is to rework the deal, still dealing.

The bases in Turkey were listening posts during the Cold War. The also allow us a strategic advantage in the Middle East. It's as close as we can get fighters to the place. SO, IMO they are important. They have been a secular country that has kept a wave of Islam from sweeping into Europe.

Second hand is this crap is internal. Should we get involved? Especially with THIS President? He's the reason this problem exists to begin with. He's done nothing but pick a scab constantly for 8 years. All of our controls are gone and have to be re-established.

Elessar
07-21-2016, 09:41 PM
The bases in Turkey were listening posts during the Cold War. The also allow us a strategic advantage in the Middle East. It's as close as we can get fighters to the place. SO, IMO they are important. They have been a secular country that has kept a wave of Islam from sweeping into Europe.

Second hand is this crap is internal. Should we get involved? Especially with THIS President? He's the reason this problem exists to begin with. He's done nothing but pick a scab constantly for 8 years. All of our controls are gone and have to be re-established.

Turkey has as Gunny said, been a constant, regardless of government.

The Greeks are disappointing...on another site they used to bandy about their
military prowess, but have done nothing to help stabilize the region.

Kathianne
07-21-2016, 10:10 PM
Turkey has as Gunny said, been a constant, regardless of government.

The Greeks are disappointing...on another site they used to bandy about their
military prowess, but have done nothing to help stabilize the region.


The bases in Turkey were listening posts during the Cold War. The also allow us a strategic advantage in the Middle East. It's as close as we can get fighters to the place. SO, IMO they are important. They have been a secular country that has kept a wave of Islam from sweeping into Europe.

Second hand is this crap is internal. Should we get involved? Especially with THIS President? He's the reason this problem exists to begin with. He's done nothing but pick a scab constantly for 8 years. All of our controls are gone and have to be re-established.

Both ignored the issue, Trump is advocating more.of the same with the added bonus of mixing head in the sand with boasts.

revelarts
07-22-2016, 04:31 AM
As far as intervention goes, with the U.S. (with NATO), being Non-"isolationist" and stepping in trying to straiten out an evil rouge "islamic" leader.
And aid a rebel military and "freedom fighters"

2 words.
Remember Libya

Gunny
07-22-2016, 04:43 AM
Both ignored the issue, Trump is advocating more.of the same with the added bonus of mixing head in the sand with boasts.

To the contrary. I addressed your question. How long have you known me? You know exactly how I would address the issue and it wouldn't be with any damned politicians playing word games.

ruslanbag43
07-30-2016, 05:59 AM
Could Russia be eyeing the straits of Bosporus and Dardanelles?Now, Yes.
Let's be objective, the Turkish military are heavily influenced by the United States. Alas, not Russia.
The roots of this coup attempt goes to the West. What Erdogan is unlikely to forgive.

Gunny
07-30-2016, 07:57 AM
Now, Yes.
Let's be objective, the Turkish military are heavily influenced by the United States. Alas, not Russia.
The roots of this coup attempt goes to the West. What Erdogan is unlikely to forgive.

I have a question for you .... what or where does your ID come from? Specifically the "bag" part. And I'm not trying to be an ass or tell you what to do, but calling yourself a bag makes a lot of people laugh. That is NOT a complimentary term here in the states. (and if you want to change it -- not saying you should or have to -- contact one of the admins).

Just some advice. Do what you want. :coffee:

ruslanbag43
07-30-2016, 10:41 AM
I have a question for you .... what or where does your ID come from? Specifically the "bag" part. And I'm not trying to be an ass or tell you what to do, but calling yourself a bag makes a lot of people laugh. That is NOT a complimentary term here in the states. (and if you want to change it -- not saying you should or have to -- contact one of the admins).

Just some advice. Do what you want. :coffee:There are nuances of languages.
Ruslan is my name, probably heard that.
The same bag... ))) is famile name and course in the Russian language it is not consonant with the bag.
This is a very old ID, I've been so registered and no, I'm not going to change it.

Gunny
07-30-2016, 12:51 PM
There are nuances of languages.
Ruslan is my name, probably heard that.
The same bag... ))) is famile name and course in the Russian language it is not consonant with the bag.
This is a very old ID, I've been so registered and no, I'm not going to change it.

Fair enough. I'm quite well aware of nuances in languages, by the way. If you think I can't recognize a Russian, you haven't been reading my posts.

Just remember this. This is an American board. That nuance thing goes both ways. You're free to call yourself what you want. My point was simply the nuance you mentioned. Calling yourself a bag with us don't go far.

So just for information, what does the word mean in Russian?

Kathianne
07-31-2016, 12:08 AM
and it continues:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/695008/turkey-turns-to-islam-attempted-military-coup-christians-erdogan


Christians pay price as Turkey turns to Islam after attempted coup

The attempted coup in Turkey sent shockwaves around the world. Here was a Nato ally, thrown into chaos overnight. MARCO GIANNANGELI in Istanbul uncovers how the power struggle has paved the way for a more extreme form of Islam to take hold.

By MARCO GIANNENGELI (http://www.express.co.uk/search/Marco+Giannengeli?s=Marco+Giannengeli&b=1)


PUBLISHED: 00:01, Sun, Jul 31, 2016

For others the night presented different opportunities as hardline Muslim Sunnis, whipped up to a frenzy, targeted Turkey’s Christian community.

In Matalya, a sprawling city in Anatolia, once the heartland of Christianity in the East, they targeted a Protestant church.

The word church is a grand term for the small, modern shopfront nestled in the city’s minority Alevi district.

For, despite a tolerant constitution, Protestants are not allowed to build churches in Turkey. Even the name church must be coupled to the non-threatening “association”.

Gangs chanting “Allahu akbar” rounded on it to smash its glass frontage. “The attack on the church was light. But it’s significant that it was the only shopfront attack in those three days,” said its minister, Pastor Tim Stone, last night. “We were the only targets.”

Nor was Matalya alone. In the Black Sea city of Trabzon others attacked the Santa Maria church, smashing windows and using hammers to break down its door.

The events of that Saturday night were not new for either city. In 2007, three Christian employees of a publishing house for bibles in Malatya were attacked. After being tortured, their hands and feet were tied and their throats cut by five Muslim assailants.

<section class="text-description" style="transform: none; margin: 0px 0px 15px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, sans-serif;">A year earlier Father Andrea Santoro, a 61-year-old Roman Catholic priest, was murdered in the Santa Maria Church. Father Santoro was shot from behind while kneeling in prayer in the church. Witnesses heard the murderer, aged 16, shouting “Allahu Akbar”.

Turkey, which once boasted two million Christians, has barely 120,000 now, fewer even than Iran. But what shocked people most about July 15’s attacks was how much hatred still remains after almost 10 years.

Though it is nominally a secular republic there can be little doubt that the government and Turkey’s 117,000 Sunni imams work together.

Since the night of the failed coup, imams have been chanting the Selah prayer, usually reserved to announce a death, on a daily basis as a rally call.
...

“There’s no doubt that the government uses the mosques to get its message across to its grassroots supporters,” said Mr Kabakci. “There’s is an atmosphere in Turkey right now that anyone who isn’t Sunni is a threat to the stability of the nation” he added.

“Even the educated classes here don’t associate personally with Jews or Christians. It’s more than suspicion. It’s a case of ‘let’s get rid of anyone who isn’t Sunni’.”

...


Asked about the 50,000 soldiers, academics, journalists and government officials detained since the attempted coup, he added: “Democracy will come. But democracy carries a personal responsibility to the community.”

Notably, many don’t consider joining the European Union worth the price of admission, he said. Nato is viewed as a Western club. Erdogan has threatened to re-introduce the death penalty and has already overturned the ban on women wearing the hijab in Government buildings.

“Turkey is like Iran in 1975,” said one Iranian in Istanbul. “I’m sure we will see it become an Islamic Republic very soon. “But Erdogan is clever. He will survive.”

</section><section class="photo changeSpace" style="transform: none; margin: 0px 0px 14px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;"></section>

ruslanbag43
07-31-2016, 01:08 AM
So just for information, what does the word mean in Russian?The word bag? Moreover, this reduction in family name.
In Russian, absolutely means nothing. This Chechen family name.
Again, the nuances of languages, in English there is no division into Russian and citizens of Russia. It's hard to explain.
Russian is only the Eastern Slavs. But in Russia still live the Tatars, Bashkirs, Kumyks, Khakas people, the Chechens, Avars, Ossetians Yakuts, etc... and all these peoples of different language, different appearance, different faith and no one calls them Russian, they are Russian citizens.

Gunny
07-31-2016, 04:21 AM
The word bag? Moreover, this reduction in family name.
In Russian, absolutely means nothing. This Chechen family name.
Again, the nuances of languages, in English there is no division into Russian and citizens of Russia. It's hard to explain.
Russian is only the Eastern Slavs. But in Russia still live the Tatars, Bashkirs, Kumyks, Khakas people, the Chechens, Avars, Ossetians Yakuts, etc... and all these peoples of different language, different appearance, different faith and no one calls them Russian, they are Russian citizens.

Let's try again. Do not assume that people do not understand just because they are different. I have lived all over the world. I have seen many different people. I am always curious so I would always try to understand different peoples and cultures.

I can say the exact same thing to you in reverse. I'm from Texas. Saying my culture is the same as Someone from New Your or California is absurd. I do not assume different means wrong. When I want to argue philosophy I will. When I'm trying to understand it, just have a conversation.

I don't care what you call yourself. I was teasing. Then I got curious. You could try and listen to your own words sometimes. All Americans are not the same. We are all American citizens nonetheless. Don't judge us all by the idiotic rhetoric you read in the media. Most of us on this board think nothing like our politicians. And everyone thinks I talk funny. :laugh:

revelarts
08-01-2016, 01:51 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCZLZUSUNnU
Starting around the 20 minute mark the state dept rep himms and haawss about the U.S. gov'ts knowledge or concerns about Fethullah Gulen living in Pennsylvania influencing Turkey in various ways and the possibility of extradition of him.

more links to Turkish info.
seems like we need to be discerning for most that's said about this situation



Meet Fethullah Gulen, Deep State Plotter (https://www.corbettreport.com/meet-fethullah-gulen-deep-state-plotter/)
Porkins Great Game: Episode #15 – Turkey Coup Special (http://christophgermann.blogspot.jp/2016/07/porkins-great-game-episode-15-turkey.html)
Turkish top general ‘told to talk with Gulen’ amid coup (http://aa.com.tr/en/todays-headlines/turkish-top-general-told-to-talk-with-gulen-amid-coup/615246)
Is Fethullah Gülen behind Turkey’s coup? (with update) (http://rodrik.typepad.com/dani_rodriks_weblog/2016/07/is-fethullah-g%C3%BClen-behind-turkeys-coup.html)
State Department Press Briefing – July 19 (min 20) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCZLZUSUNnU)
Graham Fuller’s Gulen Puff Piece in the Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/graham-e-fuller/gulen-movement-not-cult_b_11116858.html)
The United States needs to tell Turkey to change course (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-united-states-needs-to-tell-turkey-to-change-course/2014/01/23/3525bf52-7eda-11e3-93c1-0e888170b723_story.html)
Who is Fetullah Gulen? (http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/who-fetullah-gulen-2030195174)
Turkey’s Erdogan must reform or resign (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/turkeys-erdogan-must-reform-or-resign/2016/03/10/80cc9be2-dffe-11e5-9c36-e1902f6b6571_story.html)
Turkish army threatens legal action over anti-Erdoğan coup rumours (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/31/turkish-army-threatens-legal-action-erdogan-coup-rumours)
What went wrong with Turkey’s WhatsApp coup (http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2016/07/turkey-coup-attempt-basic-cause-was-premature-birth.html)
Exclusive: all the details about the air ops and aerial battle over Turkey during the military coup to depose Erdogan (https://theaviationist.com/?p=39274?p=39274)
Top officers at Incirlik Air Base arrested in Turkey coup attempt (http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-turkey-coup-20160717-snap-story.html)
Turkey’s Coup Plotters are Members of NATO’s Rapid Deployable Corps (http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2016/07/24/newsbud-breaking-news-turkeys-coup-plotters-are-members-of-natos-rapid-deployable-corps/)
Turkish Government Issues an Official Request to NBC News Demanding Immediate Public Apology (http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2016/07/25/newsbud-breaking-news-turkish-government-issues-an-official-request-to-nbc-news-demanding-immediate-public-apology/)
At height of Turkish coup bid, rebel jets had Erdogan’s plane in their sights (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-security-plot-insight-idUSKCN0ZX0Q9?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Reuters%2FworldNews+%28Reuter s+World+News%29)
Greece’s Air Force: Erdogan’s aircraft at no point harassed by rebel F-16s on Coup night (http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2016/07/21/greeces-air-force-erdogans-aircraft-at-no-point-harassed-by-rebel-f-16s-on-coup-night/)
French report on FOCUS’ GCHQ story with English tweets (https://www.zamanfrance.fr/article/selon-renseignements-anglais-erdogan-avait-prevu-dimputer-putsch-a-gulen-22863.html)
US Commander Campbell: The man behind the failed coup in Turkey (http://www.yenisafak.com/en/news/us-commander-campbell-the-man-behind-the-failed-coup-in-turkey-2499245)
CIA’s clandestine meeting in Istanbul on coup night (http://www.yenisafak.com/en/news/cias-clandestine-meeting-in-istanbul-on-coup-night-2499850)

ruslanbag43
08-01-2016, 08:16 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCZLZUSUNnU
Starting around the 20 minute mark the state dept rep himms and haawss about the U.S. gov'ts knowledge or concerns about Fethullah Gulen living in Pennsylvania influencing Turkey in various ways and the possibility of extradition of him.

more links to Turkish info.
seems like we need to be discerning for most that's said about this situation Let's be honest, at least to herself.
The Turkish military, which participated in the coup, was not only close to the Western military, but also had the support... guarantee the recognition of their coup. The military is not the students, not the students, they understood that their seizure of power will have to recognize in the West to be considered legitimate. Without these safeguards, the coup is meaningless.

How was Russia under the coup? Well, now we know that in a few hours Russian intelligence has intercepted information about the coup and gave it to Erdogan (don't know if this news in your media). Putin condemned the coup in a couple of hours after it began, when it was not known yet who will win... and the West was waiting.

Erdogan is not one of those people who like forgive

Gunny
08-01-2016, 08:54 AM
Let's be honest, at least to herself.
The Turkish military, which participated in the coup, was not only close to the Western military, but also had the support... guarantee the recognition of their coup. The military is not the students, not the students, they understood that their seizure of power will have to recognize in the West to be considered legitimate. Without these safeguards, the coup is meaningless.

How was Russia under the coup? Well, now we know that in a few hours Russian intelligence has intercepted information about the coup and gave it to Erdogan (don't know if this news in your media). Putin condemned the coup in a couple of hours after it began, when it was not known yet who will win... and the West was waiting.

Erdogan is not one of those people who like forgive

Think. Our current President has destabilized the status of forces. He won't do anything. Turkey relies on us. They rely on an idiot that sympathizes with Palestine and made a deal with Iran. He ha let loose the idiots of the world and they are infesting every country they can.

Someone's got to step up and stop them.

revelarts
08-01-2016, 05:41 PM
Gullen Connected to the Clinton's.
Gullen has Charter Schools in the U.S. and in M.E. that are Muslim based

http://truthinmedia.com/exclusive-fbi-whistleblower-and-teacher-expose-islamic-gulen-movement-infiltrating-u-s-through-charter-schools/


CBN news 2011
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2011/may/the-gulen-movement-the-new-islamic-world-order/?mobile=false


SAYLORSBURG, Pa. --
Fetullah Gülen has been called the world's top public intellectual and the face of moderate Islam. He has held court with Pope John Paul II and received praise from former President Bill Clinton."You're contributing to the promotion of the ideals of tolerance and interfaith dialogue inspired by Fetullah Gülen and his transnational social movement," Clinton told audience members during a video address at the World Rumi Forum in 2010.
Yet others have branded Gülen a wolf in sheep's clothing and a modern day Ayatollah Khomeini. CBN News recently took a closer look at the the life of the reclusive imam who directs a global Islamic movement from the Pennsylvania mountains.
Master Teacher or Deceiver?
Gülen's story takes him from a small town in Turkey to founder of a multi-billion dollar Islamic movement bearing his name.
Despite a grade school-level education, the Turkish imam leads a worldwide following of some 5 million devotees. They refer to him as "Hoca Efendi," or master teacher.
"What is the endgame of this movement, which constitutes a multi-billion dollar budget, which constitutes thousands of high schools all around the world, to universities, NGOs, markets, banks?" Turkish journalist Tulin Daloglu asked, voicing a question many have raised.
Gülen claims to represent a moderate brand of Islam compatible with the modern world. He emphasizes interfaith dialogue and the pursuit of science.
Yet one expert told CBN News there's much more to the story.
"It's not just a religious movement; it's the Fetullah Gülen movement. They call themselves that. So it is, you can say, a cult. It is a highly personalized movement," Ariel Cohen, a Middle East analyst with the Heritage Foundation, said. Cohen has been tracking the Gülen movement closely.
"This is clearly the world according to the Koran, the world according to Islam, the world according to Fetullah Gülen," he told CBN News. "But what he's talking about is not the caliphate, is not the sharia state--he calls it the New World Islamic Order."
Far from Mainstream?
Cohen said some in the U.S. government and academia support reaching out to Gülen's followers as a way to counter al Qaeda and other jihadist groups.
"The idea being, just like people who say that we should have a good relationship with the Muslim Brotherhood, that these are 'mainstream Islamists,'" he explained.
But according to leading French-Turkish scholar Bayram Balci, Gülen's ideas are anything but "mainstream" for a Western society.
Balci writes that the movement "serve(s) to accomplish three intellectual goals: the Islamization of the Turkish nationalist ideology; the Turkification of Islam; and the Islamization of modernity."
"And therefore, (Gülen) wishes to revive the link between the state, religion, and society," he writes.
Critics claim Gülen wants Islam to play a more active role in societies, breaking down barries between mosque and state while also promoting Turkish nationalism and identity. ....
.......
Targeting America's Youth
Meanwhile, the Gülen movement continues to expand its influence through the construction of schools worldwide, including in America.
Currently, there are about 125 Gülen schools spread out over 25 states. One school in Philadelphia receives some $3 million annually in taxpayer money.
"They work through the education system. Their main tool is educating kids," Cohen told CBN News.
Gülen charter schools have nondescript names, like "Truebright Science Academy," and focus heavily on math and science.
Many of the teachers hail from Turkey. Federal authorities are reportedly investigating whether some employees kick back a portion of their salaries to the Gülen movement.
Classified documents released by WikiLeaks show that U.S. officials have concerns about the Gülen schools.
"We have multiple reliable reports that the Gülenists use their school network (including dozens of schools in the U.S.) to cherry pick students they think are susceptible to being molded as proselytizers," U.S. Embassy officials in Ankara said in a 2005 report.
"And we have steadily heard reports about how the schools indoctrinate boarding students," they said.
Meanwhile, in its birthplace of Turkey, the movement continues to grow. Gülen followers are said to make up at least 70 percent of Turkey's federal police force, ostensibly devoted to their master teacher half a world away in the Pocono Mountains.


*Originally broadcast on Jun 1, 2011.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts29FmKl9Bk

revelarts
08-01-2016, 05:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF_WALy1kp0



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF_WALy1kp0

sundaydriver
08-02-2016, 06:13 AM
Fetullah Gülen lives 12 miles up the road from me. I'll go ask him some questions for us.:rolleyes:

Kathianne
08-09-2016, 09:51 PM
New best buddies!

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/turkey-military-coup/turkey-s-erdogan-meets-russia-s-putin-new-page-restored-n626101



Turkey's Erdogan Meets Russia's Putin for 'New Page' in Restored Relations

byALASTAIR JAMIESON


Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan sat down with Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin Tuesday for a diplomatic reset — just as relations with the United States and Europe show strains after last month's failed coup (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/turkey-military-coup).

The summit was aimed at ending a period of high tension and trade sanctions after Turkey downed a Russian fighter jet near the Syrian border last November (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/turkey-recovers-body-pilot-downed-russian-jet-n470866) — an act described by Putin as a "stab in the back."


Turkey's relations with traditional allies including the U.S. have faltered over Ankara's post-coup crackdown, which has seen nearly 18,000 people detained or arrested and tens of thousands suspended or fired from their jobs on suspicion of beingassociated with the movement of U.S.-based Muslim cleric Fethullah Gulen (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/turkey-military-coup/turkish-court-issues-arrest-warrant-gulen-over-failed-coup-n622841).

The issue has soured relations, with members of the government implying the U.S. could have been behind the coup — a claim denied by leading American officials.
Turkey has also blasted its European allies for what it sees as a lack of support for a democratically-elected government which survived a violent attempt to overthrow it.

...

revelarts
08-19-2016, 10:44 AM
There were 5 main Turkish Military regiments involved in the Coup.
3 of the 5 Units were Turkish NATO Units. And they Used their NATO Name, Slogan and Emblem In their communications.
Investigators found this info from getting/hacking the "WHATS APPS" communications of the coup plotters.
All the COUP plotters hour by our communications are reviewed in detail.




The three most important regiments involved in the Turkey Attempted Coup plot and implementation have been part (members) of NATO’s Rapid Deployable Corps (NRDC) since 2003.A group of plotters of the failed Turkish Coup Attempt used a WhatsApp group to communicate with each other. Based on well-documented information and established identities gathered from these intercepted communications, at least three out of the five coupist regiments were (and still are) part of NATO’s Rapid Deployable Corps. Further, the group used the emblem and slogan used by NATO’s Rapid Deployable Corps: “Peace at home, peace in the world.”
The intercepted communications also expose the role of the CIA-Gulen network within Turkey’s police force, and how it readily welcomed and aided the Failed Coup Attempt.
Newsbud news with Sibel Edmonds and Spiro Skouras delves into this significant exposé and provides viewers with context and analyses missing from western media outlets.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KAxjZWy-Lk