Dems Want Citizenship For Illegals

[red states rule]

First it was Pres Bush, now it is the Dems. Dems blocked money for norder security and enforcement. This should help the Dems sagging poll numbers


Democrats pitch citizenship path for some illegals
By S.A. Miller and Stephen Dinan
July 26, 2007

Senate Democrats yesterday defeated a Republican effort to authorize $3 billion for new border security and immigration enforcement. Instead, the Democrats proposed a new agriculture workers program to bring in hundreds of thousands of foreign workers and grant legal status to illegal aliens now working in the fields.

It was the first major skirmish on immigration since President Bush's bill collapsed last month, and members of both parties are filing piecemeal measures to deal with various aspects of the crisis and leave for another day the issue dealing with the estimated 12 million to 20 million illegal aliens already here.

"We're now moving to Plan B," said Sen. Lindsey Graham, the South Carolina Republican who took a bruising last month for his support for the broader immigration bill, and who was the chief sponsor of yesterday's border-security amendment. "That will require us to address the major changes that must be made a piece at a time. Today, we're addressing border security, visa overstays, sanctuary cities and other important issues."

But Democrats argued that the amendment broke legislative rules that separate rewriting legislation and enacting a spending bill, and, joined by three Republicans, defeated the measure 52 votes to 44 votes.

"This is not a vote on immigration," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, Nevada Democrat. Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, Massachusetts Democrat, accused Republicans attempting a "do-over" to placate conservatives angered by the earlier bill. "I guess it's to try to make them politically OK among the voters."

The piecemeal approach is favored by some members of both parties, including several of those who fought hardest for the earlier bill, including Sen. John McCain, Arizona Republican. The two top Democratic 2008 presidential candidates, Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and Barack Obama of Illinois, told the National Council of La Raza earlier that they would be "open" to voting for piecemeal legislation.

Finding the pieces everyone agrees on will be difficult. Republicans want security first, and Democrats want legalization for illegal alien college students and agriculture workers.

Democrats tried to get an agreement yesterday to pass an agriculture worker bill that would create a program for future agriculture workers and offer a path to citizenship to hundreds of thousands of illegal alien agriculture workers already here. Republicans objected to giving illegal aliens a path to citizenship, a proposal that doomed the Bush legislation.

for the complete article
http://washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070726/NATION/107260088/1001

[JohnDoe]

I don't have a problem with raising the quotas for Migrant workers, this should have been done ages ago!

I do have a problem with legalizing those migrant workers that came here illegally....they should be returned home and request to come here legally with the new higher, and appropriate level of quotas.

[red states rule]

I don't have a problem with raising the quotas for Migrant workers, this should have been done ages ago!

I do have a problem with legalizing those migrant workers that came here illegally....they should be returned home and request to come here legally with the new higher, and appropriate level of quotas.

Why raise them when the government can't keep track of the ones that are in the country now?

[JohnDoe]

Why raise them when the government can't keep track of the ones that are in the country now?

Good morning rsr! ;) (guess who?)

I think we need to raise them for MIGRANT workers, those that work the fields, because in this line of work, I do believe we do not have enough Americans that are willing to do the job, EVEN if the pay scale were higher.

And to answer your question.....Raising quotas for Migrant Workers, will ALLOW US TO KEEP TRACK OF THEM....they will be here on a temporary work visa.

[red states rule]

Good morning rsr! ;) (guess who?)

I think we need to raise them for MIGRANT workers, those that work the fields, because in this line of work, I do believe we do not have enough Americans that are willing to do the job, EVEN if the pay scale were higher.

And to answer your question.....Raising quotas for Migrant Workers, will ALLOW US TO KEEP TRACK OF THEM....they will be here on a temporary work visa.

Good morning

The government can't keep track of the ones we have now - so you want to add more

US citizens can't get passports for their vacation right now

when raids are held and illegals are taken off their jobs - lines form with Amercans applying for the jobs

That talking point is hog wash

[JohnDoe]

No rsr, Lines of Americans are NOT there for picking cotton and tomatoes and apples and Spinach.

This is only for Migrant Farm harvesters. This is not for other "illegals" that are here, and should not be!

I think that if we raise our Migrant worker quotas, to bring in the workers that harvest the fruits of the soil, so that all Farmers can get the necessary workers LEGALLY, then Farms can be checked or raided or whatever, to see if the employees on the farm are there on a visa or not and if they are not, then the illegals get sent back to Mexico and the owners of the Farms get penalized BIG TIME, and eventually jailed if they repeat their offence.

[red states rule]

No rsr, Lines of Americans are NOT there for picking cotton and tomatoes and apples and Spinach.

This is only for Migrant Farm harvesters. This is not for other "illegals" that are here, and should not be!

I think that if we raise our Migrant worker quotas, to bring in the workers that harvest the fruits of the soil, so that all Farmers can get the necessary workers LEGALLY, then Farms can be checked or raided or whatever, to see if the employees on the farm are there on a visa or not and if they are not, then the illegals get sent back to Mexico and the owners of the Farms get penalized BIG TIME, and eventually jailed if they repeat their offence.

and how would you track them - given the fact we can;t racks the ones who are here now

Not to mention the huge amount of crime illegals commit here in the US

There are plenty of people to fill those jobs. After all, libs are telling us how rotten the people are suffering under the Bush economy - they should be ready to take the jobs

[GW in Ohio]

I'm not in favor of conferring citizenship on illegals.

I prefer to give them a choice:


Come in out of the shadows and register for citizenship.
Or get the fuck out.


In conjunction with that, I would beef up the penalties to make it a felony for anyone to have an illegal on their payroll.

[red states rule]

I'm not in favor of conferring citizenship on illegals.

I prefer to give them a choice:


Come in out of the shadows and register for citizenship.
Or get the fuck out.


In conjunction with that, I would beef up the penalties to make it a felony for anyone to have an illegal on their payroll.

Skip option one and go straight to option 2

[JohnDoe]

and how would you track them - given the fact we can;t racks the ones who are here now

Not to mention the huge amount of crime illegals commit here in the US

There are plenty of people to fill those jobs. After all, libs are telling us how rotten the people are suffering under the Bush economy - they should be ready to take the jobs

I agree that the whole situation is a REAL MESS.

But we are ONLY TALKIN' Migrant farm workers here.

The green card, the temporary visa would be a way to keep track of those that came here legitimatly....and help spot those in this industry NOT here legally.

Of course reforms from here to high heaven would need to be put in to make sure we can track ANYONE holding a visa, visiting us....which is definately lacking in our system now....

so I can see what your concerns are...

Where do we begin then? To me, the Migrant worker is the worker that we DO NEED, and where there are not a kazillion Americans lining up to do the job!

Construction, Landscaping, retail salesmen, waitors and waitresses and even Chamber maids for Holtels are jobs that I believe Americans would do, if the price was right, the pay was right...

Although I do believe some Americans will certainly do the Migrant worker job of picking crops, once all Americans are hired, I think there will still be alot of jobs left opened for us to import workers on Legal Work Visas to do the job.

[red states rule]

I agree that the whole situation is a REAL MESS.

But we are ONLY TALKIN' Migrant farm workers here.

The green card, the temporary visa would be a way to keep track of those that came here legitimatly....and help spot those in this industry NOT here legally.

Of course reforms from here to high heaven would need to be put in to make sure we can track ANYONE holding a visa, visiting us....which is definately lacking in our system now....

so I can see what your concerns are...

Where do we begin then? To me, the Migrant worker is the worker that we DO NEED, and where there are not a kazillion Americans lining up to do the job!

Construction, Landscaping, retail salesmen, waitors and waitresses and even Chamber maids for Holtels are jobs that I believe Americans would do, if the price was right, the pay was right...

Although I do believe some Americans will certainly do the Migrant worker job of picking crops, once all Americans are hired, I think there will still be alot of jobs left opened for us to import workers on Legal Work Visas to do the job.

We have had many instances of job the illegals take from American workers they wil not do

plotting to blow up JFK

Kill troops at Ft Dix

rape and murder of other Americans

Drug running

Need more?

The system is broken and the last thing we need is to have more come in and be unable to track them

[JohnDoe]

We have had many instances of job the illegals take from American workers they wil not do

plotting to blow up JFK

Kill troops at Ft Dix

rape and murder of other Americans

Drug running

Need more?

The system is broken and the last thing we need is to have more come in and be unable to track them

Do you suggest that the Farmers start paying maybe $15-$25 bucks an hour to pick our fruit and veggies, in order to get our food picked?

I have no problem with that, our food would go up greatly in price, but it will come back to us in other ways with Americans using their pay right back in to the Economy perhaps?

Otherwise, bringing in LEGAL WORKERS from other countries IS THE ONLY WAY TO CORRECT the situation we have now with Farmers bringing in ILLEGALS.

You have to give the Farmer the opportunity to do the right THING, and bring in LEGAL WORKERS to do the Job, and THE ONLY WAY to do this is to raise quotas for Farm workers ONLY.

Like I said, not for construction, not for maids, not for electricians not for landscapers BUT FOR FARM workers.

What is your sollution?

Let the Farmers continue to use ILLEGALS??????

[red states rule]

Do you suggest that the Farmers start paying maybe $15-$25 bucks an hour to pick our fruit and veggies, in order to get our food picked?

I have no problem with that, our food would go up greatly in price, but it will come back to us in other ways with Americans using their pay right back in to the Economy perhaps?

Otherwise, bringing in LEGAL WORKERS from other countries IS THE ONLY WAY TO CORRECT the situation we have now with Farmers bringing in ILLEGALS.

You have to give the Farmer the opportunity to do the right THING, and bring in LEGAL WORKERS to do the Job, and THE ONLY WAY to do this is to raise quotas for Farm workers ONLY.

Like I said, not for construction, not for maids, not for electricians not for landscapers BUT FOR FARM workers.

What is your sollution?

Let the Farmers continue to use ILLEGALS??????

We are already paying a higher cost with the crimes, welfare fraud, and deaths caused by illegals

Seal the border for starters and stop all of them from coming here

Of course, Dems have just stoped that from happening

[Gaffer]

Bush and big business are looking at the profit that can come from the illgals staying here. The dems are looking at the 20 million votes they can pick up in the next election. It's that simple.

[JohnDoe]

Bush and big business are looking at the profit that can come from the illgals staying here. The dems are looking at the 20 million votes they can pick up in the next election. It's that simple.

But illegals and those illegals on the path to citizenship can NOT vote, until they are citizens, which is about an 8 year process, I think?

So how would the Dems benefit from their votes?

Perhaps they would benefit from any LEGAL citizen family members and friends that might vote for them?

And I suppose the Republicans would benefit from the VOTE and moolah that the businesses will give them, in return for the cheap labor?

The States that have huge illegal immigration problems need to set up their registering to vote, so that they can assure only citizens vote imo. This is a states issue.

[OCA]

Good morning


US citizens can't get passports for their vacation right now

lines form with Amercans applying for the jobs




No, actually they don't. I know of 1 place that had people apply after the fact, only the boss was not going to pay Americans a higher wage for less work.

Yes Americans can get passports, I know of many who have no problem. I know dozens who travel abroad each year and have heard of no such mythical passport problem.

[red states rule]

No, actually they don't. I know of 1 place that had people apply after the fact, only the boss was not going to pay Americans a higher wage for less work.

Yes Americans can get passports, I know of many who have no problem. I know dozens who travel abroad each year and have heard of no such mythical passport problem.

U.S. State Department official apologizes for delays in issuing passports
The Associated PressPublished: July 11, 2007

WASHINGTON: An apologetic official acknowledged Wednesday that the State Department failed to anticipate the flood of passport applications this year that resulted in long delays and disrupted summer travel plans for many Americans.

"No one is more aware than I am that in the past several months many travelers who applied for a passport did not receive their document in time for their planned travel. I deeply regret that," Maura Harty, assistant secretary of state for consular affairs, told a hearing of the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

She said the department had predicted that passport issuance would rise from 12.1 million last year to 16.2 million this year with the implementation in January of new national security rules requiring those returning by air from Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean and Bermuda to present a passport. Instead, applications are expected to be near 18 million this year, and the normal six-week process for getting a passport ballooned to 12 weeks early this year.

"We failed to predict the record-setting compressed demand," Harty said. "I do sincerely regret that we missed the mark on that number."

That failed to fully satisfy some lawmakers, whose offices have been besieged with calls from constituents panicked that they were not getting the passports they needed for summer trips abroad. Several compared the poor planning — Congress passed the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative in late 2004 — to the lack of preparedness for Hurricane Katrina.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/07/11/america/NA-GEN-US-Passport-Delays.php



HUNDREDS LINE UP FOR “THE JOBS AMERICANS WON’T DO”
Guess what?………..They’re paying more too…………..

Via the Rocky Mountain News

GREELEY - The line of applicants hoping to fill jobs vacated by undocumented workers taken away by immigration agents at the Swift & Co. meat-processing plant earlier this week was out the door Thursday.
Greg Bonifacio heard about the job openings on television and brought his passport, his Colorado driver’s license, his Social Security card and even a color photograph of himself as a young Naval officer to prove his military service.

Well whaddya know…… An american citizen eager to stand in linewith hundresd of other American citizens to get one of those horrible jobs ( according to President Bush) Americans won’t do.

(Maxine) Hernandez, who had gone to the employment office because her husband was there to apply for unemployment insurance, decided to apply for a job at Swift.”My whole family used to work there. My mom, my aunt, uncles,” she said. “I guess it sort of runs in our blood.”

Let’s see…..was going to apply for unemployment…..now has a Job. I guess this process doesn’t quite mesh with the Current administrations perception of who’s happy and willing to work in our country. Gee how could they have missed it?

http://uncooperativeblogger.wordpress.com/2006/12/22/hundreds-line-up-for-%E2%80%9Cthe-jobs-americans-won%E2%80%99t-do%E2%80%9D/

[OCA]

So a few people got inconvenienced, and this is a problem because?

Ahhh the old Greeley meat plant that Jeff had posted a few months back................thats the 1 place there was a line and ultimately afterwards the owner was unhappy that he had to pay Americans more for less work.

Mexicans consistently outwork Americans, its just a simple, undeniable fact.

RSR do me a favor, find me an American who is lined up to pick vegetables in the San Joaquin Valley, CA this time of year in 110 degree heat from sunup to sundown.............hint hint.......that dog don't exist.............and yet would you believe! The work still has to get done.

[red states rule]

So a few people got inconvenienced, and this is a problem because?

Ahhh the old Greeley meat plant that Jeff had posted a few months back................thats the 1 place there was a line and ultimately afterwards the owner was unhappy that he had to pay Americans more for less work.

Mexicans consistently outwork Americans, its just a simple, undeniable fact.

RSR do me a favor, find me an American who is lined up to pick vegetables in the San Joaquin Valley, CA this time of year in 110 degree heat from sunup to sundown.............hint hint.......that dog don't exist.............and yet would you believe! The work still has to get done.

The point is, some feel the same government that can't keep up with passports for US citizens - wil be able to keep track of the temp workers

Plus how many of those with visa's has the government admitted they do not know where they are?

I would rather see the price of vegetables fgo up if we could solve the illegal problem along with the crime, and the added cost of benefits they are getting (but shouldn't)

[OCA]

The point is, some feel the same government that can't keep up with passports for US citizens - wil be able to keep track of the temp workers

Plus how many of those with visa's has the government admitted they do not know where they are?

I would rather see the price of vegetables fgo up if we could solve the illegal problem along with the crime, and the added cost of benefits they are getting (but shouldn't)


Amnesty is the only answer, amnesty will eventually be the compromise.

[Pale Rider]

Amnesty is the only answer, amnesty will eventually be the compromise.

No it won't, ever. I'll stake my reputation on it.

[red states rule]

Amnesty is the only answer, amnesty will eventually be the compromise.

THAT will never happen

[OCA]

THAT will never happen

Sure it will, a Dem is going to be in the oval office in Jan.09 and Repubs will lose more seats in congressional elections, i'll bet everything I got on that.

Its amnesty or the status quo.

[red states rule]

Sure it will, a Dem is going to be in the oval office in Jan.09 and Repubs will lose more seats in congressional elections, i'll bet everything I got on that.

Its amnesty or the status quo.

OCA, with all do respect; do you really think Hillary or Obama can win the Electoral College?

The ratings for the Dem Congress is at record lows. Lower then the ratings Republicans had when they were fired last Nov

[OCA]

OCA, with all do respect; do you really think Hillary or Obama can win the Electoral College?

The ratings for the Dem Congress is at record lows. Lower then the ratings Republicans had when they were fired last Nov

Bush has the lowest approval rating ever recorded by a sitting president, he's increasingly Isolated and becoming increasingly irrelevant and its all because of 1 thing, Iraq and how he handled it like a pussy.

It won't be Obama it will be Hillary and yes she can win the electoral college because people will not be voting for her but rather against Bush(even though he ain't running) and they will be casting their votes on 1 thing, Iraq and Iraq only. Now do I like this? No, but i'm a realist and 2008 is going to be a landslide election for Demos.

[Yurt]

Bush has the lowest approval rating ever recorded by a sitting president, he's increasingly Isolated and becoming increasing irrelevant and its all because of 1 thing, Iraq and how he handled it like a pussy.

It won't be Obama it will be Hillary and yes she can win the electoral college because people will not be voting for her but rather against Bush(even though he ain't running) and they will be casting their votes on 1 thing, Iraq and Iraq only. Now do I like this? No, but i'm a realist and 2008 is going to be a landslide election for Demos.

Yup. I see that way too. Hillary has been in the making for a long time. She is scary, but IMO she will be the president. The one thing I do like about her though, is she is not as chicken shit as most other dem runners when it comes to fighting for freedom and standing up to dictators.

Watch out for the "its time a woman ran this country" bit too.

Edit:

But I will do all in my citizen power to stop her from getting her grubby hands on the nuke button. And poor bill, she will have the NSA at her fingertips with that He-Whore.

[OCA]

Yup. I see that way too. Hillary has been in the making for a long time. She is scary, but IMO she will be the president. The one thing I do like about her though, is she is not as chicken shit as most other dem runners when it comes to fighting for freedom and standing up to dictators.

Watch out for the "its time a woman ran this country" bit too.

Edit:

But I will do all in my citizen power to stop her from getting her grubby hands on the nuke button. And poor bill, she will have the NSA at her fingertips with that He-Whore.

I too will talk all the shit I can about her and bring the facts about her to as many people as I can but lets face it, Bush has fucked up things so badly that Jimmy Carter could get elected again, its just the way its gonna have to be, the price we must pay.

[Hagbard Celine]

The point is, some feel the same government that can't keep up with passports for US citizens - wil be able to keep track of the temp workers

Plus how many of those with visa's has the government admitted they do not know where they are?

I would rather see the price of vegetables fgo up if we could solve the illegal problem along with the crime, and the added cost of benefits they are getting (but shouldn't)

So you're saying you have no faith in the US government? Are you a communist?

[Yurt]

I too will talk all the shit I can about her and bring the facts about her to as many people as I can but lets face it, Bush has fucked up things so badly that Jimmy Carter could get elected again, its just the way its gonna have to be, the price we must pay.

Sad, but I do believe it is true. You can see in the repub candidates that they run from almost all things Bush. And if you are McCain, well, then all your people run from you.

It seems we are at a point like we were in 1999, where the US if so fed up with the president (his party too), that the other party is basically a shoe in. I wish it were different, but many republicans have left the platform and sold themselves out. To be honest, I think if billary were elected it would galvanize our base.

[nevadamedic]

Sad, but I do believe it is true. You can see in the repub candidates that they run from almost all things Bush. And if you are McCain, well, then all your people run from you.

It seems we are at a point like we were in 1999, where the US if so fed up with the president (his party too), that the other party is basically a shoe in. I wish it were different, but many republicans have left the platform and sold themselves out. To be honest, I think if billary were elected it would galvanize our base.

Yikes! :slap: If any Democrat other then Senator Dodd get the White House were fucked.

[red states rule]

Bush has the lowest approval rating ever recorded by a sitting president, he's increasingly Isolated and becoming increasingly irrelevant and its all because of 1 thing, Iraq and how he handled it like a pussy.

It won't be Obama it will be Hillary and yes she can win the electoral college because people will not be voting for her but rather against Bush(even though he ain't running) and they will be casting their votes on 1 thing, Iraq and Iraq only. Now do I like this? No, but i'm a realist and 2008 is going to be a landslide election for Demos.

The more Hilary talks - the more she shows what a left wing liberal nut she is. She will not carry the South and Rudy can (and probably win NY and PA)

The numbers are against her in the Electorial College

[red states rule]

So you're saying you have no faith in the US government? Are you a communist?

Just pointing how how the governmrnt does in delivering the services we pay for

To a liberal - pointing out the truth is a capital crime

[glockmail]

Sure it will, a Dem is going to be in the oval office in Jan.09 and Repubs will lose more seats in congressional elections, i'll bet everything I got on that.

Its amnesty or the status quo. Unfortunately you are correct. I won't be betting against you.

[red states rule]

Unfortunately you are correct. I won't be betting against you.

I do believe I will take the bet

Rudy and Fred in 08

[OCA]

The more Hilary talks - the more she shows what a left wing liberal nut she is. She will not carry the South and Rudy can (and probably win NY and PA)

The numbers are against her in the Electorial College


Of all the Repub candidates Rudy is the one that can't carry the South, they don't cotton to baby killers, queer lovers and taking their guns away. Rudy is a liberal Republican, extreme liberal and I will be happy that he never becomes president.

RSR I admire your positive attitude, I do, but you are just not living in reality, this presidential election is going to be a landslide for Democrats.

Hell John Kerry carried PA, still think Hillary can't win there?

[OCA]

I do believe I will take the bet

Rudy and Fred in 08

What you got to bet with? I'm all in.

[red states rule]

What you got to bet with? I'm all in.

Whoever said Hillary will win in 08

I will take a piece of the action

[glockmail]

I'm not in favor of conferring citizenship on illegals.

I prefer to give them a choice:


Come in out of the shadows and register for citizenship.
Or get the fuck out.


In conjunction with that, I would beef up the penalties to make it a felony for anyone to have an illegal on their payroll.

That's harsh, man. Where's your liberal compassion?

[red states rule]

That's harsh, man. Where's your liberal compassion?

Probably had to pay a tax increase to pay for the illegals in his area