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Kathianne
10-08-2016, 08:35 PM
This election is about to meltdown on the GOP, or do you disagree?

What do you think is going to happen between now and Nov 8? What about after January?

Can the 'never Trump' folks be blamed for this?

http://hotair.com/archives/2016/10/08/late-dump-trump/


It’s too late to dump Trump; Update: RNC temporarily halts some work for Trump

POSTED AT 2:31 PM ON OCTOBER 8, 2016 BY ALLAHPUNDIT


Things are moving fast since Jazz’s post just 90 minutes ago. This just spilled onto social media as I’m writing this:
<twitterwidget class="twitter-tweet twitter-tweet-rendered" id="twitter-widget-0" data-tweet-id="784798219704213504" style="padding: 0px; margin-top: 10px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 10px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: georgia, &quot;times new roman&quot;, serif; font-size: 12.16px; position: static; visibility: visible; display: block; transform: rotate(0deg); max-width: 100%; width: 520px; min-width: 220px; margin-left: 40px !important;"><article class="MediaCard MediaCard--mediaForward customisable-border" data-scribe="component:card" dir="ltr">View image on Twitter (https://twitter.com/betsy_klein/status/784798219704213504/photo/1)https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CuQp0RHVMAA92T-.jpg:small (https://twitter.com/betsy_klein/status/784798219704213504/photo/1)


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Statement from @mike_pence (https://twitter.com/mike_pence), via @ElizLanders (https://twitter.com/ElizLanders)
9:50 AM - 8 Oct 2016 (https://twitter.com/betsy_klein/status/784798219704213504)



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</twitterwidget>A WaPo reporter claims (https://twitter.com/PhilipRucker/status/784804121396346881) sources are telling him that Pence’s team is “absolutely apoplectic” at the tape and “inconsolable.” Really? Are they mad that the tape revealed Trump for who he is or mad that he got caught? Because they surely knew who he was before yesterday.


A few minutes before Pence’s statement was released, this broke:

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✔@SenJohnThune (https://twitter.com/SenJohnThune)

Donald Trump should withdraw and Mike Pence should be our nominee effective immediately.
9:51 AM - 8 Oct 2016 (https://twitter.com/SenJohnThune/status/784798261781598208)



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Thune isn’t just a senator, he’s the chairman of the Senate Republican conference. He’s the first member of the Republican leadership to head for the lifeboats. Thune’s colleague, Kelly Ayotte, who’s stuck in a tight race in New Hampshire, pulled her support (https://twitter.com/KellyAyotte/status/784779876796665857) from Trump a few hours ago. Two congressmen from deep-red Alabama, Bradley Byrne and Martha Roby, have also abandoned ship, which tells you how far the party fears the backlash might spread electorally. Virtually every prominent Republican in Utah apart from Orrin Hatch — Mike Lee, Jason Chaffetz, and Gov. Gary Herbert — had pulled the plug on Trump before I went to bed last night, further imperiling Trump in a state where he’s been polling far below traditional Republican expectations. Donors are also whispering to the media that it’s time for Trump to vamoose and that they’re looking for ways to replace him (http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-10-08/trump-campaign-reels-as-some-donors-explore-replacing-him). If the RNC could wave a magic wand today and swap Mike Pence in for Trump as nominee, especially after his solid debate last week, the support among congressional Republicans for the move would be close to unanimous.</twitterwidget>

The relevant party rule is Rule 9 (https://s3.amazonaws.com/prod-static-ngop-pbl/docs/2016-Republican-Rules-FINAL.pdf):



(a) The Republican National Committee is hereby authorized and empowered to fill any and all vacancies which may occur by reason of death, declination, or otherwise of the Republican candidate for President of the United States or the Republican candidate for Vice President of the United States, as nominated by the national convention, or the Republican National Committee may reconvene the national convention for the purpose of filling any such vacancies.



I read that the same way a law prof who spoke to WaPo (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/07/theres-no-longer-any-way-for-republicans-to-boot-donald-trump-from-the-ballot/) reads it, that it allows the RNC to fill a vacancy but not to forcibly replace a nominee. The rule explicitly mentions “vacancies,” for one thing, and “death, declination, or otherwise” suggests that the Committee is empowered to act only when the nominee has ceded the nomination somehow. If the party wants Trump out and Pence in, they need to convince Trump to leave “voluntarily” first — and he was clear this morning (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/amid-growing-calls-to-drop-out-trump-vows-to-never-withdraw/2016/10/08/8c0b5b7a-8d68-11e6-bff0-d53f592f176e_story.html) that he won’t do that. The RNC could amend the rules to let them replace the nominee for any reason, but that would take time. They could also, I guess, read the word “otherwise” broadly and argue that the rule already empowers them to dump the nominee for any reason, but if it does that Trump might just be crazy enough to sue them to hold onto his nomination. Imagine that spectacle in the last few weeks before the election — the Republican Party and its own nominee battling in court over whether it’s legally entitled to purge him. Even if the RNC won the suit, which I assume it would (it’s their rules, after all), the bloodbath would only drive Trump’s polls down further and seal the party’s fate. If they’re going to lose with Trump either way, what’s the point of trying to shove him towards the exit? How many downballot Republicans who’d otherwise lose their races because of Trump will be rescued by a sensational RNC courtroom victory to oust him at the last minute before the election as the party implodes?


There are logistical problems to dumping Trump too, as WaPo notes:



The bigger problem, though, is that voting has already begun. Or, to be more accurate, that it’s too late to get Trump off the ballot. Every state has rules guiding how and when candidates can be added to or removed from the ballot. Why? For one reason because the ballots have to be printed and the mechanics of the election put into place…
The only other possibility is that the Republicans attempt an extremely unusual legal approach, as noted in August by ThinkProgress. The president is elected not by us, but by the members of the electoral college. In many states the electors’ votes are legally bound to the popular vote in one way or another, but in some states they’re not.
Let’s say, then, that the voters in Georgia cast their ballots for Trump with the understanding that the electors would then cast a ballot for Republican X. It would be hard for X to hit the necessary 270 electoral votes in that way, since in some states the results would still be bound to Trump. Unless, ThinkProgress’s Ian Millhiser notes, the party challenged the constitutionality of rules binding electors. So that plan, then: the GOP convinces people to vote for Trump with the understanding that electors would vote for someone else — illegally in some places — and the Supreme Court would then approve the plan. Seems unlikely.


Somehow the GOP would need to convince undecideds to go to the polls and cast a ballot for Trump in the expectation that the vote will be counted for Mike Pence, either as an actual vote or merely as a symbolic way of encouraging the state’s electors to vote for Pence if the “Trump” line on the ballot gets the most votes statewide. But that’s stupid, because “Trump” a.k.a. Pence isn’t going to get enough votes in enough states to threaten Clinton’s glide path to the presidency. Some Trumpers would refuse to vote for Pence as a protest against the RNC for casting their hero aside. (Reportedly Paul Ryan is getting a taste of that today (https://twitter.com/samsteinhp/status/784816866170638336).) Some anti-Trumpers would refuse to vote for Pence because they see him as deeply complicit in legitimizing Trumpism. Some voters across various parties would refuse to vote for Pence purely to punish the GOP for this gigantic mess. And some voters wouldn’t vote for Pence because they don’t pay attention and will have missed the whole “a vote for ‘Trump’ is a vote for Pence” message by the RNC. Pence would get squashed by Clinton. But realistically, if Trump does vacate the nomination under tremendous pressure, Pence is the party’s only option as a replacement. (Per WaPo (https://twitter.com/costareports/status/784819461719293952), there’s chatter at this hour of a Pence/Carson ticket if Trump quits.) The only alternatives with comparable name recognition, Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan, are both loathed by Trumpers and would be boycotted by many of them, giving the party zero chance of victory. The only figure right now who could get votes from Trump fans and from conservatives is Trump’s own handpicked conservative VP. It would have to be Pence. But he won’t win.


Doesn’t matter, though. As a Trump campaign official said (https://twitter.com/RyanLizza/status/784586500579164161) last night of the big guy, “As far as I know, we are stuck with him.” In the half-hour I’ve been writing this post, two more big-name Republicans have dumped Trump, Arnold Schwarzenegger (https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger/status/784803865723965440) and John Kasich (https://twitter.com/HallieJackson/status/784809442009284608), the latter no doubt with an eye to doing what he can to help downballot GOPers distance themselves from Trump. That’s half the reason for the giant public pile-on today, to beg voters via as many Republican officials as possible not to blame other GOP candidates for Trump’s sins by voting for Democrats. (The other half of the reason, of course, is to try to shame Trump into dropping out. Good luck with that.) But maybe there’s opportunism to it too, not just in taking advantage of this scandal to dump Trump after his polls had already begun to decline but to get off the Trump Train now before even more damaging oppo is leaked that blows up the train entirely:



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Dr. Ben Carson tells @FoxNews (https://twitter.com/FoxNews) more Trump revelations are coming.
10:21 AM - 8 Oct 2016 (https://twitter.com/toddstarnes/status/784805927589249026)



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Don Lemon just said Access Hollywood told him they have tons more stuff like this on Trump on cutting room floor. CUE TAPE, WE'RE WARMED UP.
7:27 PM - 7 Oct 2016 (https://twitter.com/hhavrilesky/status/784580839187316739)



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Nicholas Kristof of the Times has a column out today, exquisitely timed for tomorrow’s debate, recounting the story of Jill Harth (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/09/opinion/sunday/donald-trump-groper-in-chief.html?_r=0), who claims Trump groped her more than once during the 1990s when she met with him to talk business. Erin Burnett of CNN casually mentioned on air last night that a friend of hers claims Trump once tried to kiss her (https://twitter.com/samsteinhp/status/784548458267017217). If Ben Carson knows for a fact that more oppo is coming, it must mean that newspapers already have it, have drafted stories about it, and have contacted the campaign for comment about it before publishing it. It could drop at any second, probably before the debate tomorrow just to maximize Trump’s discomfit. This is only going to get worse and many Republicans knows it, which is why they’re bailing en masse now.


Speaking of tomorrow, Team Trump is whispering to the media that he’s going to push back hard at the debate by going nuclear on Bill Clinton for his own mistreatment of women (https://twitter.com/JoshuaGreen/status/784806062398513152), which will please his fans at least. What does Trump say, though, when Hillary inevitably comes back at him with this? “Donald, you invited us to your wedding, you played golf with Bill many times, and you donated thousands of dollars to my campaign, all years after my husband had been accused of these things. You’ve said many nice things about both of us since Bill left office. Were you lying then or are you lying now?” It’s bad enough that the attacks on Bill risk making Hillary look sympathetic, but they might also make Trump look like — shudder — a Democrat.


Here’s Mike Lee’s Facebook video from last night savaging Trump. Offhand, I believe Lee, Ben Sasse, and Jeff Flake were the only Republican senators who emphatically refused to endorse Trump from the beginning. Incidentally, news just dropped via Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/rnc-staffers-trump-women-2005-audio-2016-10) that some RNC staffers are allegedly “defying orders” to continue working to elect Trump and are focusing now only on downballot races instead. Anything could happen over the next 30 or so hours before the debate — Trump could quit, Pence could quit, Reince could quit, some new tape could drop, you name it. Don’t wander far from a TV or computer. Exit question: When does Ted Cruz, who finally endorsed Trump after he got into hot water politically for initially refusing to do so, decide to un-endorse because the the water’s now too hot in the Trump camp too?


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Update: The small silver lining for Trump in all of this is that he’s all teed up now for a “yuuuuge Trump comeback!” narrative after the debate tomorrow night. The bad news is that if that narrative doesn’t materialize, the party really might cut him loose next week. This (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/rnc-halts-all-victory-project-work-for-trump-229363) is a lurch in that direction:



The Republican National Committee on Saturday appeared to at least temporarily halt the operations of some of the “Victory” program that is devoted to electing Donald Trump…
“Please put a hold/stop on all mail projects right now. If something is in production or print it needs to stop. Will update you when to proceed,” Lauren Toomey, a staffer in the RNC’s political department, wrote in an email that was obtained by POLITICO.
The email was sent to at least one RNC victory program vendor. Rick Wiley, a top RNC official, was cc’d on the email.



I used to think we were destined for a trainwreck October in which Trump trailed far behind Clinton, the RNC dumped him, and then he spent most of the month attacking Priebus, Ryan, and the rest of the “rigged system” for supposedly sabotaging his campaign. He would need a stabbed-in-the-back storyline to scapegoat someone else for his own failures. But Trump hung in there all summer and was basically tied in the polls with Clinton before the debate two weeks ago, suggesting a more traditional October in which the party was united for victory. Now it looks like we’re going to get a trainwreck after all. Forget the debate tomorrow; Trump’s next rally will be amazing.
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gabosaurus
10-08-2016, 10:22 PM
Pence and Trump reportedly had an angry meeting late Friday. Trump reps want Pence to roll out some excuses and he refused. Instead, he issued a statement saying he could not condone Trump's actions. There is even a report that Pence wants off the ticket so as not to wreck his own political career.
I doubt that Pence will want to poison his own well by taking Trump's place on the ticket at this late date.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-mike-pence-trump-tape-20161008-story.html

The Mother Jones website brought out some details of the tape release and gave it a name, which led to further embarrassment.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/10/pussygate-might-be-final-straw-donald-trump

And then... there is TBS late night personality Samantha Bee... :laugh:

https://twitter.com/FullFrontalSamB/status/784557197799796736/video/1

Drummond
10-09-2016, 03:38 AM
The question has been asked --- what will happen between now and 8th November.

That's easily answered. Basically ... more of the same. This latest muckraking exercise will - if it can be, and certainly if the current issue isn't seen to sink Trump - be just one of a series of attempts to bury Trump's credibility once and for all.

Who will be responsible ? Why .. surprise, surprise ... TRUMP'S ADVERSARIES.

The real question, is this ... those stooping to such disreputable 'dirty tricks' campaigning either deserve to have their disgusting campaign succeed, or, they don't. The REAL disreputability involved here is defined by the vile depths Trump's opposition will sink to, in order to wreck his chance of success.

So -- DO such tactics deserve the reward of success ? YES or NO ? Should Trump's opposition win out through smears ? By trying to scandalise the GOP contender ? Is it RIGHT that such methodology wins out ??

Ideally, a Presidential campaign is won or lost on an honest exchange of debating points. The pros and cons of political philosophies and policy standpoints should be sifted, considered, voting decisions arrived at from a consideration of their worth.

Ah, but that's not nearly good enough for Trump's enemies. It cannot be. No, they choose to muckrake, smear, denigrate by personal attacks instead. Honour is dead to such people.

I ask: what TRUE Conservative would think that such disreputable tactical conduct deserves any reward, any measure of success ?? And I suggest: anyone taking a position which serves the muckrakers, is complicit in their games, however indirectly.

Either the dirty tricks perpetrators win, or they don't. I say - no such victory should ever occur. Its likelihood should be thoroughly resisted.

gabosaurus
10-09-2016, 05:22 PM
Unfortunately for Trump, this is just the opening salvo. Trump's closet of horrors has barely been revealed.
Depending on the outcome of the debate, we could still hear about various Miss Universe contestants, Trump's rumored involvement in the porn industry and some of his former girlfriends.

Drummond
10-09-2016, 05:42 PM
Unfortunately for Trump, this is just the opening salvo. Trump's closet of horrors has barely been revealed.
Depending on the outcome of the debate, we could still hear about various Miss Universe contestants, Trump's rumored involvement in the porn industry and some of his former girlfriends.

... and there we go.

Those choosing to be adversely influenced by this muckraking stuff, and even to run with it, play the Leftie game. The Left want Trump's loss of support, fully expecting it'll automatically translate into another term of power held by the Dems.

No tactic is too low to indulge in. Is it, Gabby ?

Do the ends justify the means ?

Kathianne
10-09-2016, 06:01 PM
Trump will keep his 40-43% of loyal supporters. How he hopes to gain any votes from the undecideds? I'd be surprised.

He has gone full nuclear though, basically saying he'll take down the GOP folks who didn't support him. I thank him, it puts paid to all the nonsense of SCOTUS being so important.

hjmick
10-09-2016, 06:34 PM
It's as if he's been working for the Clintons since day one. Either that or he's attempting to be the first candidate to turn a profit running for office, what else explains his lack of spending?


Save the death of his opponent the week before the election, I see no way Trump wins. Every time he opens his mouth, his foot lands in it. Every week it seems some new, loathsome aspect of his past or personality is revealed. None of his actions say he wants to win. The best thing for the GOP to do at this point is either distance themselves and cut ties completely, or force him off the ticket and replace him with... anyone else. To do otherwise is to stain the party for, at the very least, the next eight years. If they do as I suggest, they just might be able to recover enough to defeat Hilliary in 2020.


I realize this opinion won't be popular, but that's okay, I just call it like I see it.

Neither of these two yoyos was going to get my vote anyway...


What happened to the Republican party I joined 34 years ago?

Kathianne
10-09-2016, 06:36 PM
It's as if he's been working for the Clintons since day one. Either that or he's attempting to be the first candidate to turn a profit running for office, what else explains his lack of spending?


Save the death of his opponent the week before the election, I see no way Trump wins. Every time he opens his mouth, his foot lands in it. Every week it seems some new, loathsome aspect of his past or personality is revealed. None of his actions say he wants to win. The best thing for the GOP to do at this point is either distance themselves and cut ties completely, or force him off the ticket and replace him with... anyone else. To do otherwise is to stain the party for, at the very least, the next eight years. If they do as I suggest, they just might be able to recover enough to defeat Hilliary in 2020.


I realize this opinion won't be popular, but that's okay, I just call it like I see it.

Neither of these two yoyos was going to get my vote anyway...


What happened to the Republican party I joined 34 years ago?

A long time ago, when most here weren't supporting Trump, I said his candidacy would cause a schism in the GOP, it's happened. Something new will arise, the populists can have Humpty Dumpty.

Bilgerat
10-09-2016, 06:37 PM
It's as if he's been working for the Clintons since day one. Either that or he's attempting to be the first candidate to turn a profit running for office, what else explains his lack of spending?


Save the death of his opponent the week before the election, I see no way Trump wins. Every time he opens his mouth, his foot lands in it. Every week it seems some new, loathsome aspect of his past or personality is revealed. None of his actions say he wants to win. The best thing for the GOP to do at this point is either distance themselves and cut ties completely, or force him off the ticket and replace him with... anyone else. To do otherwise is to stain the party for, at the very least, the next eight years. If they do as I suggest, they just might be able to recover enough to defeat Hilliary in 2020.


I realize this opinion won't be popular, but that's okay, I just call it like I see it.

Neither of these two yoyos was going to get my vote anyway...


What happened to the Republican party I joined 34 years ago?

They have been sold, part & parcel. The "Establishment" is now owned by the Globalists.

And we all know who owns the Hildabeast

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14581521_1210475792326823_2429464888330197503_n.jp g?oh=37a3b8f06944fc555ad1e3a352dd55c0&oe=58A7A280

Black Diamond
10-09-2016, 07:15 PM
It's as if he's been working for the Clintons since day one. Either that or he's attempting to be the first candidate to turn a profit running for office, what else explains his lack of spending?


Save the death of his opponent the week before the election, I see no way Trump wins. Every time he opens his mouth, his foot lands in it. Every week it seems some new, loathsome aspect of his past or personality is revealed. None of his actions say he wants to win. The best thing for the GOP to do at this point is either distance themselves and cut ties completely, or force him off the ticket and replace him with... anyone else. To do otherwise is to stain the party for, at the very least, the next eight years. If they do as I suggest, they just might be able to recover enough to defeat Hilliary in 2020.


I realize this opinion won't be popular, but that's okay, I just call it like I see it.

Neither of these two yoyos was going to get my vote anyway...


What happened to the Republican party I joined 34 years ago?
It was Barzini all along....

hjmick
10-09-2016, 07:25 PM
It was Barzini all along....


A reference from The Godfather, nice. We don't get enough of those...

Black Diamond
10-09-2016, 07:30 PM
A reference from The Godfather, nice. We don't get enough of those...

Popped into my head when you said Trump had been working for Hillary all along. :cool:

gabosaurus
10-09-2016, 08:36 PM
... and there we go.

Those choosing to be adversely influenced by this muckraking stuff, and even to run with it, play the Leftie game. The Left want Trump's loss of support, fully expecting it'll automatically translate into another term of power held by the Dems.

No tactic is too low to indulge in. Is it, Gabby ?

Do the ends justify the means ?

Actually, they do. You do what you need to do to win. Ask the people who organized the Swift Boat campaign. Or the Willie Horton campaign.

There would be no muckraking against Trump if his past didn't contain so much fertilizer.

Drummond
10-10-2016, 06:36 AM
Actually, they do. You do what you need to do to win. Ask the people who organized the Swift Boat campaign. Or the Willie Horton campaign.

There would be no muckraking against Trump if his past didn't contain so much fertilizer.

They do, eh ? So speaks a point of view lacking, simply from where it would lead to, a consideration of reputability, of decency.

And what of CONTEXT ? Locker-room banter, spoken over A DECADE AGO .. compare that 'fertiliser' against Clinton's proven activities, and those while he was also in office !! Hillary's 'anti-Bill stance' then, was ... what ?

Hypocrisy - reputability - consistency. None matter, using your parameters of conduct.

Such is the way of it with the Left.

Kathianne
10-10-2016, 08:16 AM
Above conversation illustrates just how similar 'the right' and 'the left' have become overall.

Decency, honor, reputation, one cannot use those words in any positive form for either of the 'selected' candidates.

Having fun all?

fj1200
10-11-2016, 10:01 AM
This election is about to meltdown on the GOP, or do you disagree?

What do you think is going to happen between now and Nov 8? What about after January?

Can the 'never Trump' folks be blamed for this?

I think it depends on the after November 8. And who wins of course. Does the loser go quietly or do they hang around and try to remain relevant.

Kathianne
10-11-2016, 06:02 PM
I think it depends on the after November 8. And who wins of course. Does the loser go quietly or do they hang around and try to remain relevant.

Check this out: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/440939/donald-trump-republican-party-trump-train-running-down-gop

fj1200
10-12-2016, 09:53 AM
Check this out: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/440939/donald-trump-republican-party-trump-train-running-down-gop

I just can't see him hanging around if he loses and especially if it's not close. I'm bolstered by reports that trumpism doesn't really have any electoral legs and the only reason he has real support is because he "tells it like it is." :rolleyes: I could easily be wrong and he'll keep spewing his brand of populism but I hope not.

Kathianne
10-12-2016, 01:04 PM
I just can't see him hanging around if he loses and especially if it's not close. I'm bolstered by reports that trumpism doesn't really have any electoral legs and the only reason he has real support is because he "tells it like it is." :rolleyes: I could easily be wrong and he'll keep spewing his brand of populism but I hope not.

Could be he stays, I doubt it too. What I don't doubt is there are 40% of folks in the 'tent' of GOP who've bought what he's selling. Someone will step into that void. Imagine if they were not Trump, but still charismatic and able to speak in sentences.

fj1200
10-13-2016, 10:35 AM
Could be he stays, I doubt it too. What I don't doubt is there are 40% of folks in the 'tent' of GOP who've bought what he's selling. Someone will step into that void. Imagine if they were not Trump, but still charismatic and able to speak in sentences.

I'll try and remain optimistic that an actual conservative will fill the void.