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View Full Version : Hillary Clinton supporters need to quit whining about the Electoral College



jimnyc
12-19-2016, 11:46 AM
Some "unidentified" person emailed this to me! :) :)

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Hillary Clinton supporters need to quit whining about the Electoral College

Shocked and appalled by the prospect of a Donald Trump presidency, some supporters of Hillary Clinton have turned to minimizing and even delegitimizing Trump’s election. In an era of severe political polarization, in an election with two candidates seen from the outset in highly unfavorable terms, after the most brutal campaign in modern history, and with an outcome that astonished just about everyone, these reactions are understandable, but wrong.

Many die-hard Clinton supporters cannot bring themselves to believe their candidate could lose to Donald Trump. They think: How could such a crude and inept con man be elected president? Even after it has happened, it is unthinkable, a nightmare. So, the election must not have been fair.

Those on the fringe raise the specter of diabolical Russians hacking away at our democracy. More grounded Clintonians have less malevolent boogeymen — our Founding Fathers. As they see it, the election’s outcome should be blamed on a dysfunctional and archaic electoral vote system. Hillary won the national popular vote. She should be president. It is as simple as that. The Electoral College should go the way of Trump University.

They are right about one thing: Hillary did win the national popular vote. As votes continued to trickle in three weeks after Election Day, Clinton received 50.9% of the two-party vote to 49.1% for Trump. With about 135 million votes counted, Clinton has 2.3 million more votes than Trump.

Yet Clinton has only 232 electoral votes (in 20 states plus Washington, D.C.) to Trump’s 306 (in 30 states plus one from Maine), making him the president-elect. So Trump’s election without a popular-vote plurality is regarded as an injustice. Some Democrats claim a moral victory as victims of an electoral vote system that once again horribly “misfired.” Their claim, however, neglects two facts.

First, had the election been conducted with rules awarding the presidency to the popular-vote winner, the candidates and many voters quite probably would have acted very differently and the popular vote would not have been the same. Trump and Clinton would have campaigned in the “safe” states. Potential voters in those states would have felt more pressure to turn out and to vote for “the lesser of two evils” and not to waste their votes on third-party candidates. Some additional Clinton voters would probably have shown up, but gains on the Trump side would probably have been larger as more reluctant Republicans would have been pushed to return to the fold, particularly in big blue states like California, New York, and Illinois.

In short, a comparison of the national popular vote as cast and the electoral vote division is no simple matter. This is particularly true in our age of pervasive polling in which people should have a good idea about whether they live in a state where their presidential vote might make a difference.

Second, Clinton’s 2.3-million-popular-vote plurality over Trump depends on the votes in a single state: California. Clinton has more than a 4-million-vote plurality over Trump there. In the other 49 states plus the District of Columbia, Trump actually has a 1.7-million-popular-vote plurality over Clinton. So California single-handedly turns a Trump plurality into a Clinton plurality.

Rest here - http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-hillary-clinton-supporters-need-to-quit-whining-about-the-electoral-college-2016-11-30

Noir
12-19-2016, 12:53 PM
Clinton supports whinning about the EC now.
And if the unthinkable happened and the EC elected Clinton, then it would be the Trump supporters whinning about the EC.

During an election the EC is only out-dated, out-modded etc when it's putting the screws in someone's chosen candidate.

Black Diamond
12-19-2016, 01:05 PM
This week, it's the electoral college's fault Hillary lost.

Last week, the Russians

The week before that, Comey.


The week before that, racist middle class America.

Week before that, misogyny.

Whose fault will it be next week?

CSM
12-19-2016, 01:14 PM
This week, it's the electoral college's fault Hillary lost.

Last week, the Russians

The week before that, Comey.


The week before that, racist middle class America.

Week before that, misogyny.

Whose fault will it be next week?

Next week, the libs/dems start eating their own ....

jimnyc
12-19-2016, 01:16 PM
Clinton supports whinning about the EC now.
And if the unthinkable happened and the EC elected Clinton, then it would be the Trump supporters whinning about the EC.

During an election the EC is only out-dated, out-modded etc when it's putting the screws in someone's chosen candidate.

And yet here we are, and it's the Clinton supporters, so no need to muddy the issue. but even if, it's generally the liberals. The right has always been talking about how the EC is pretty much the only fair way, and there's a reason it was designed this way.

I don't think it's outdated, no matter who wins. No way the larger cities should be speaking for the entire country.

Black Diamond
12-19-2016, 01:18 PM
Next week, the libs/dems start eating their own ....

I am waiting for it to be Chelsea's fault

Bilgerat
12-19-2016, 01:52 PM
Next week, the libs/dems start eating their own ....



And we bring you, Huma Abedin

http://www.debatepolicy.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=848217

Noir
12-19-2016, 03:03 PM
I don't think it's outdated, no matter who wins. No way the larger cities should be speaking for the entire country.

You're fine with the EC as a structure if they elect Clinton?

Black Diamond
12-19-2016, 03:04 PM
You're fine with the EC as a structure if they elect Clinton?

Yes.

Noir
12-19-2016, 03:11 PM
Yes.

You lot are a weird bunch indeed.

Black Diamond
12-19-2016, 03:14 PM
You lot are a weird bunch indeed.

Consistency is weird. I'll grant you that.

jimnyc
12-19-2016, 03:14 PM
You're fine with the EC as a structure if they elect Clinton?

I'm fine with the EC as is, Yes, even if Hillary should have won this year. One state should never be able to dictate the rest of the country. I understand and see why those get angry when they see the popular vote person lose, but this year in California is a PERFECT example as to why the EC is much better. Hillary got 2.3 million more votes. She got 4+ more million votes than Trump in California.

jimnyc
12-19-2016, 03:17 PM
You lot are a weird bunch indeed.

Why do you thinks it's weird? It made sense way back when it was created, and it still holds true today. That's not weird, that's knowing how the popular vote could be abused as such, so they made the EC so that all states had an 'equal' say. Hell, if she pushed much harder, she may have even gotten a few million more votes in Cali perhaps. And then winning the popular by say 5 million votes. But the same holds true, California alone shouldn't allow her to win the entire prize.

Noir
12-19-2016, 03:45 PM
Why do you thinks it's weird? It made sense way back when it was created, and it still holds true today. That's not weird, that's knowing how the popular vote could be abused as such, so they made the EC so that all states had an 'equal' say. Hell, if she pushed much harder, she may have even gotten a few million more votes in Cali perhaps. And then winning the popular by say 5 million votes. But the same holds true, California alone shouldn't allow her to win the entire prize.

If the EC announce president Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump, and you guys are fine with it, that is weird.

Black Diamond
12-19-2016, 03:49 PM
If the EC announce president Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump, and you guys are fine with it, that is weird.

You'd rather we be inconsistent? In the unlikely event a certain number of electors go rogue, I will accept the result.

hjmick
12-19-2016, 03:50 PM
Clearly someone I this thread does not fully comprehend the American political system.


Which begs the question...


Why comment on something you don't understand?

hjmick
12-19-2016, 03:52 PM
If the EC announce president Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump, and you guys are fine with it, that is weird.


The country would only be fine with this outcome had Hillary won the majority of the EC delegates. She did not, as such the EC will not announce her President.

Noir
12-19-2016, 03:56 PM
The country would only be fine with this outcome had Hillary won the majority of the EC delegates. She did not, as such the EC will not announce her President.

Tell that to Black Diamond.

jimnyc
12-19-2016, 03:56 PM
If the EC announce president Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump, and you guys are fine with it, that is weird.

No - I meant I supported the electoral college as the voting goes, and how each candidate gets awarded the electorates on election day, and how it's those numbers that count more than the popular vote.

The latest is that, I believe it's 29 states, have laws on the books putting the elector in a situation where they have to vote as the state voted. If they do otherwise, the state CAN replace that person then with an alternate elector, and fine said person. Things after the electors have their say I believe it goes to the House.

In history it's but barely made a dent. I think about 10 of them, spread out over a shitload of elections since 1968? Simply put, it's a good system and the folks chosen by their respective parties almost always vote their party.

But if by some miracle they get 36 republicans to change their votes, and then the House or whomever also backs someone else, then sure I'll respect that. But it's not happening. :)

jimnyc
12-19-2016, 03:57 PM
Tell that to Black Diamond.

No, we only "entertained" a question posed by yourself.

Black Diamond
12-19-2016, 04:00 PM
Tell that to Black Diamond.

Dig deeper, kid.

Kathianne
12-19-2016, 04:06 PM
This week, it's the electoral college's fault Hillary lost.

Last week, the Russians

The week before that, Comey.


The week before that, racist middle class America.

Week before that, misogyny.

Whose fault will it be next week?

Last I heard, it was Huma.

jimnyc
12-19-2016, 04:09 PM
Last I heard, it was Huma.

Well, her and her selfie sex obsessed hubbie of hers surely didn't do Hillary any favors!! :laugh:

KarlMarx
12-19-2016, 07:07 PM
If the EC announce president Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump, and you guys are fine with it, that is weird.

Noir.... the EC elected every president since George Washington... it's in our Constitution... conservatives are for observing the Constitution... hence, it is very logical that we should not have a problem with it.

Elessar
12-19-2016, 07:30 PM
Noir.... the EC elected every president since George Washington... it's in our Constitution... conservatives are for observing the Constitution... hence, it is very logical that we should not have a problem with it.

Futile to offer facts to the clueless.