A few words about "alternative" facts [Archive] - Debate Policy

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bullypulpit

01-25-2017, 04:36 PM

NightTrain

01-25-2017, 05:04 PM

How's your butt, Bully? Has the inflammation calmed down yet?

revelarts

01-25-2017, 06:58 PM

Even Trump fans... if they are honest.... will call out Trump on his lies

aboutime

01-25-2017, 07:03 PM

Donnie's administration seems to be a real fan of "alternative" facts. Allow me to share a few words about the use of "alternative" facts from a past master of their use.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9655&stc=1

There are facts, and then there is fiction. There are no "alternative" facts. If you allow those fictions being bandied about by Donnie, and his surrogates, to go unanswered...well, to paraphrase the old adage, "We must all hang together, or we will surely hang separately."

Bully, Bully, Bully. Little did you know, you'd be showing us the exact wording of the DNC, DEMOCRATS, SOCIALIST mantra where they TEACH those exact words you just posted in the image above.

Thank you so much. You are doing yourself a wonderful favor, exposing where the lies originate...despite your constant attempts to BLAME someone else.

Your Communist ties, quoting a GERMAN OFFICER under HITLER, are amazing:
Joseph Goebbels On the "Big Lie" | Jewish Virtual Library
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/goebbelslie.html
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield ...

gabosaurus

01-25-2017, 10:19 PM

Even Trump fans... if they are honest.... will call out Trump on his lies

Many Republican members of the House and Senate have already done so. Lindsey Graham has begged Trump to stop spreading falsehoods, saying it weakens the public image of the White House. Even Fox News has called out Trump for distorting the truth.

Some GOP lawmakers are worried that Trump is delusional and not willing to accept reality.

NightTrain

01-25-2017, 10:30 PM

Many Republican members of the House and Senate have already done so. Lindsey Graham has begged Trump to stop spreading falsehoods, saying it weakens the public image of the White House. Even Fox News has called out Trump for distorting the truth.

Some GOP lawmakers are worried that Trump is delusional and not willing to accept reality.

Links?

gabosaurus

01-25-2017, 10:39 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/24/politics/lindsey-graham-trump-illegal-votes/

http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-voter-fraud-republicans-congress-election-fraud-548277

NightTrain

01-25-2017, 10:50 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/24/politics/lindsey-graham-trump-illegal-votes/

http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-voter-fraud-republicans-congress-election-fraud-548277

Voter fraud is a big problem in this country. Remember the recount in Michigan that suddenly disappeared when they noticed there were more votes in Detroit than registered voters?

Don't you think it needs to be addressed? Wouldn't you like to be 100% confident in election results?

gabosaurus

01-25-2017, 11:56 PM

If voter fraud is such a big problem, why did the Trump people file suit to halt the recounts in Michigan and Wisconsin?
The secretaries of state in all 50 states testified they found that no illegal voting had occurred.

Speaking of voter fraud, why is Steve Bannon registered to vote in two states? Particularly since Trump says this is an example of voter fraud.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/25/steve-bannon-voter-registration-trump-election-voter-fraud

NightTrain

01-26-2017, 12:08 AM

If voter fraud is such a big problem, why did the Trump people file suit to halt the recounts in Michigan and Wisconsin?
The secretaries of state in all 50 states testified they found that no illegal voting had occurred.

Sources?

Speaking of voter fraud, why is Steve Bannon registered to vote in two states? Particularly since Trump says this is an example of voter fraud.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/25/steve-bannon-voter-registration-trump-election-voter-fraud

:laugh2:

Read your own link, moron.

pete311

01-26-2017, 01:17 AM

Even Trump fans... if they are honest.... will call out Trump on his lies
Trump fans, at least here, are not honest, they will sell their soul defending him

Balu

01-26-2017, 01:36 AM

Trump fans, at least here, are not honest, they will sell their soul defending him
Will you explain one thing. The elections have passed. The Electoral College said their word. The inauguration is in the Past Perfect. All procedures were in strict accordance with the US Constitution. The game is over. What are the Liberals claiming for? http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/dntknw.gif
You know that from a side you look like Ukrainians in 2014. :laugh:

http://rusvesna.su/sites/default/files/images/19102015/kastryuli_golova_ukrop_4.jpg

pete311

01-26-2017, 01:39 AM

Will you explain one thing. The elections have passed. The Electoral College said their word. The inauguration is in the Past Perfect. All procedures were in strict accordance with the US Constitution. The game is over. What are the Liberals claiming for? http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/dntknw.gif
You know that from a side you look like Ukrainians. :laugh:

Did you guys just lay down when Obama was elected? Seriously this is a really dumb question. btw, worry about your self.

Balu

01-26-2017, 01:42 AM

Did you guys just lay down when Obama was elected? Seriously this is a really dumb question. btw, worry about your self.
I don't worry at all. I am a spectator at your clownery. :clap::laugh2:

pete311

01-26-2017, 01:49 AM

I don't worry at all. I am a spectator at your clownery. :clap::laugh2:

Outside of a few cities, Russia is third world. Nice try.

Balu

01-26-2017, 01:53 AM

Outside of a few cities, Russia is third world. Nice try.
I like that you used to think so. Germans in 30s thought the same way. The life showed that they were mistaken. So, do proceed. :clap:

Black Diamond

01-26-2017, 01:55 AM

If two trolls troll one another, do they make a sound?

Gunny

01-26-2017, 05:41 AM

If two trolls troll one another, do they make a sound?

Shit. You just made me spit shit all over my screen, douchebag.:laugh2:

Russ

01-26-2017, 03:39 PM

The liberal media like CNN/NYT/WPost are descending into a swampy morass in their frenzy to discredit anything they can about Trump. They really have turned some kind of corner in the last 2 months. They're not even media outlets anymore. They spend 90% of their time complaining about Trump.

Here's my take of all the "lies" they are talking about:

1. "Alternative facts" - KellyAnne Conway used the term "alternative facts" when talking with an interviewer about the crowd size at the inauguration, with a meaning like alternative claims about the crowd size, not some 1984 reference. Liberal media claimed the crowd was much smaller than Trump's people claimed it was. The interviewer jumped on that as a great sound bite, saying that alternative facts are the same as lies, and the media is chortling to themselves at how great it sounds to say that. Trump's figure on the crowd size is probably too high, but it is not that important a fact.

2. Trump meeting Putin previously - Trump recently said he'd never met Putin before, in an interview in 2015 when he said he met Putin when he had the Miss Universe pageant in Moscow. Maybe he forgot about that, maybe he lied in 2015 when he said he met Putin, in order to make himself sound better. I don't think it's because he met Putin in 2015 and hatched a plan to get help to win the Presidency - which is what the liberal media would like to believe.

3. Russia being behind the hack of Hillary's campaign - Trump has been disputing the previous CIA director
Brennan's claims that Russia is behind the Hillary hack during the campaign. Yes, it seems likely that Russia hacked the Hillary claim, but no, they didn't make up anything that was leaked. Everything revealed was true information about Hillary's campaign. But the thing that sticks out about this episode is why was the CIA director going to the media with this story? That's not what CIA directors do. He just wanted to embarrass Trump, and Trump reacted defensively. This story makes me wonder about Brennan more that about Trump.

4. Trump believes that millions of illegal immigrants voted - This is another case of Trump reacting defensively when the liberal media continually covers the fact that Hillary won the popular vote. Let's face it, the liberal media talks about the popular vote for one reason - to try to make Trump look like a non-legitimate as President. So Trump counters defensively. I don't believe that millions of illegal votes were cast, but CNN keeps using the words "false", "lying", and "debunked" when covering this story. They need to look those words up in the dictionary, and then compare them to "unsupported" and "unsubstantiated". No one has proven Trump wrong with his statement. CNN also needs to remember to cover the rest of the news around the world, and not spend 23 hours a day talking about "I can't believe Trump believes there was voter fraud". CNN is turning into a video rag.

Abbey Marie

01-26-2017, 04:01 PM

If two trolls troll one another, do they make a sound?

Yes, and it is the sound of observers chewing popcorn.

jimnyc

01-26-2017, 04:05 PM

Yes, and it is the sound of people chewing popcorn.

:popcorn:

I hate that sound. It's inevitably the last sound I hear before one of those invisible little pieces gets stuck between my teeth and my gums, and I spend the next 2 hours with a toothpick, piece of paper, tweezers and some floss trying to get rid of that annoying feeling. Very similar to that annoying feeling you get when reading an article about a liberal. :)

Abbey Marie

01-26-2017, 04:06 PM

:popcorn:

I hate that sound. It's inevitably the last sound I hear before one of those invisible little pieces gets stuck between my teeth and my gums, and I spend the next 2 hours with a toothpick, piece of paper, tweezers and some floss trying to get rid of that annoying feeling. Very similar to that annoying feeling you get when reading an article about a liberal. :)

It can also be kind of squeaky. Hate that.

Balu

01-26-2017, 05:16 PM

Yes, and it is the sound of observers chewing popcorn.

Correct!
I am NOT a citizen of the USA and what is happening in YOUR country is NONE of my business... till it starts threatening the security of MY country. Till that time a can afford myself to enjoy this performance sipping my beer or chewing popcorn. This is a difference between pete311 and me.
Hope you won't argue against this. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/big_standart/smile.gif

Abbey Marie

01-26-2017, 05:20 PM

Correct!
I am NOT a citizen of the USA and what is happening in YOUR country is NONE of my business... till it starts threatening the security of MY country. Till that time a can afford myself to enjoy this performance sipping my beer or chewing popcorn. This is a difference between pete311 and me.
Hope you won't argue against this. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/big_standart/smile.gif

I agree that you two are different.

NightTrain

01-26-2017, 05:20 PM

Balu

01-26-2017, 05:31 PM

In my humble opinion, you are welcome to beat up on Petey - he kind of asked for it when he began meddling in Russian lawmaking.
Actually I have not started beating him. I've just put very distinctive and simple questions he failed to answer. Our Liberals are the same. The are not ready to speak the subject too.
The interesting point is that the answers to my questions will show either he is against your Constitution, Law and existing procedures or he doesn't understand what he tries to speak about.

Abbey Marie

01-26-2017, 05:35 PM

To be serious for a moment, I like seeing both of you on the board. A different perspective makes things interesting. (Even if unfortunately, Pete has been crude with me at times).

So, Balu, you said that you have been to our country, but cannot be specific. Can you say anything generally that you liked or disliked about it?

Balu

01-26-2017, 06:08 PM

To be serious for a moment, I like seeing both of you on the board. A different perspective makes things interesting. (Even if Pete has been crude with me at times).

So, Balu, you said that you have been to our country, but cannot be specific. Can you say anything generally that you liked or disliked about it?
I like the Nature of your country and Americans themselves. You are very similar to us and are nice and easy to communicate with. You do not have the British snobbery. What I dislike... Americans are sticking to the USA only and know very few about the other world.
I can compare. Even in Soviet times every schoolboy could tell off hand 20-25 States of the USA, knew the titles of European, most Asian and many African countries. The difference in this was particularly striking. In general I have a very positive impression about you.
This is in brief.

Abbey Marie

01-26-2017, 06:38 PM

I like the Nature of your country and Americans themselves. You are very similar to us and are nice and easy to communicate with. You do not have the British snobbery. What I dislike... Americans are sticking to the USA only and know very few about the other world.
I can compare. Even in Soviet times every schoolboy could tell off hand 20-25 States of the USA, knew the titles of European, most Asian and many African countries. The difference in this was particularly striking. In general I have a very positive impression about you.
This is in brief.

Thank you.

Do you think most countries are ignorant of the rest of the world? I would agree that many Americans are lacking in knowledge in that area. But I suspect we are far from alone in that. For being in such a connected age, so many folks have zero intellectual curiosity. But they can tell you all about the latest actor or rap artist.

To your point, we were on a cruise to Bermuda last Spring, and went out to a Bermuda restaurant for dinner. Our taxi driver actually thanked us for getting off the ship to experience his country! Apparently people overwhelmingly stay on the ship and eat the included food. I couldn't believe it. Not that everyone was American, but most certainly were.

Balu

01-26-2017, 06:53 PM

Thank you.

Do you think most countries are ignorant of the rest of the world? I would agree that many Americans are lacking in knowledge in that area. But I suspect we are far from alone in that. For being in such a connected age, so many folks have zero intellectual curiosity. But they can tell you all about the latest actor or rap artist.

To your point, we were on a cruise to Bermuda last Spring, and went out to a Bermuda restaurant for dinner. Our taxi driver actually thanked us for getting off the ship to experience his country! Apparently people overwhelmingly stay on the ship and eat the included food. I couldn't believe it. Not that everyone was American, but most certainly were.

You are right. You are not alone. But... you are too far from the rest of the world to often contact directly with the others. This is not your fault. This is your misfortune.
Somewhere in 60s-70s it was considered a great luck if a young man was enlisted in the Navy. He had a real opportunity to see some part of the world.
I think you will not treat my words as offensive or an attempt to lecture you. http://s19.rimg.info/aee19e2775457d135efdf745e7d94e15.gif (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-1224821991.html)

Abbey Marie

01-26-2017, 07:09 PM

You are right. You are not alone. But... you are too far from the rest of the world to often contact directly with the others. This is not your fault. This is your misfortune.
Somewhere in 60s-70s it was considered a great luck if a young man was enlisted in the Navy. He had a real opportunity to see some part of the world.
I think you will not treat my words as offensive or an attempt to lecture you. http://s19.rimg.info/aee19e2775457d135efdf745e7d94e15.gif (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-1224821991.html)

No, I asked your opinion.
Plus, I am not that thin-skinned and love my country. It's all good. :cool:

Balu

01-26-2017, 07:22 PM

No, I asked your opinion.
Plus, I am not that thin-skinned and love my country. It's all good. :cool:
If you want my opinion, I think it is a drawback. But who is ideal and doesn't have drawbacks? This is my personal opinion. But you may be surprised to learn that Europeans dislike Americans at the household level. Even Brits. (I don't count former socialist countries. They are a special case, close to medical)

aboutime

01-27-2017, 03:01 PM

You are right. You are not alone. But... you are too far from the rest of the world to often contact directly with the others. This is not your fault. This is your misfortune.
Somewhere in 60s-70s it was considered a great luck if a young man was enlisted in the Navy. He had a real opportunity to see some part of the world.
I think you will not treat my words as offensive or an attempt to lecture you. http://s19.rimg.info/aee19e2775457d135efdf745e7d94e15.gif (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-1224821991.html)

Balu. Do you EVER stop trying to use Putin Propaganda to tell us what is wrong with US, while avoiding all that is wrong with you, and your PutinIzing???

Black Diamond

01-27-2017, 03:50 PM

Balu. Do you EVER stop trying to use Putin Propaganda to tell us what is wrong with US, while avoiding all that is wrong with you, and your PutinIzing???

Putin is a hero to many. He has exuded strength on the world stage while Obama has been.. Well Obama.

Gunny

01-27-2017, 04:28 PM

Putin is a hero to many. He has exuded strength on the world stage while Obama has been.. Well Obama.

Anyone notice that if your name is Bush, everything is your fault forever. If your name is O-blah-blah, everything you screwed up is Trump's fault. Or Bush's.

Pay no attention to that elephant in the room ....

Black Diamond

01-27-2017, 04:38 PM

Anyone notice that if your name is Bush, everything is your fault forever. If your name is O-blah-blah, everything you screwed up is Trump's fault. Or Bush's.

Pay no attention to that elephant in the room ....
You are racist if you say any different

Drummond

01-27-2017, 06:59 PM

If you want my opinion, I think it is a drawback. But who is ideal and doesn't have drawbacks? This is my personal opinion. But you may be surprised to learn that Europeans dislike Americans at the household level. Even Brits. (I don't count former socialist countries. They are a special case, close to medical)

Commenting as a Brit ... I think it's true to say that the vast majority of British people have no view one way or the other ... they're usually too busy living their lives to give America much thought.

I'd be willing to bet that the reverse is also true, that Americans don't usually give the British much thought, either. They, too, will be busy with their own day-to-day business (I've listened to WINS radio, in New York, during my visits there .. its news concentrates strongly on American news).

Unfortunately ... we have a strong Socialist influence over here, and it's done much to try and spread excuses for looking 'down' on America. Invariably it's done through demonisation, or by contrasting British values over American ones.

George W Bush was much demonised, and received some shocking press at times (the Daily Mirror's vitriolic 'reporting' had to be seen to be believed - Daily Mirror being a Leftie tabloid rag). But the way they attacked Trump was unprecedented. Even now, after Trump became President, some commentators on (for example) LBC, London's news and radio chat show station, go out of their way to spew hatespeech against him. James O'Brien is perhaps the worst. He'll cut people off if he disagrees with anyone too strongly, or, will try to ridicule callers.

[Yes ... he's Left wing ... proudly calls himself a 'champagne Socialist'.]

The biggest cultural difference is no doubt the difference in accepting gun ownership. Brits can't, usually, understand how it can be that guns are anything like as widely owned as they are. We look at news of the latest shooting and judge it as further need for radical change ...

But you see, our views are shaped by our media. That's probably true in all parts of the world. Look for responsibility for divisions between nations' viewpoints, and see where it begins ... in the media. Media that's agenda-driven.

In Balu's case, of course, so much will be under the iron control of Russia's Government .. with, if our reports are anything to go by, this trend becoming altogether worse under Putin.

I have a certain degree of cautious sympathy for Balu for that reason. His presence here, however, has the potential to 'de-programme' him. I hope it happens. We need less pro-Russian propaganda here ... and more of a willingness to be open minded.

I have doubts it'll happen. Chances are that Balu sees his duty here as being to promote Russia to the hilt (with adversarial overtones emerging every so often), and not be tolerant to anything having the potential to give him any alternative viewpoint.

But, you never know. I'd like to be wrong on that.

We shall see, in the fullness of time.