PDA

View Full Version : Putin Taking On Ukraine Again



Kathianne
01-31-2017, 12:11 PM
Will be interesting to see the reaction, if any, from the US administration:

https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/winter-war-russias-slow-war-in-ukraine-heats-up-ukrainian-forces-and-russian-backed-rebels/


JANUARY 31, 2017


WINTER WAR (http://www.france24.com/en/20170131-clashes-ukraine-flashpoint-town-rage-third-day): Russia’s slow war in Ukraine heats up.

Ukrainian forces and Russian-backed rebels clashed heavily for a third straight day at a flashpoint town Tuesday, as thousands of locals remained without power after a deadly surge in fighting.

The industrial hub of Avdiivka came under attack on Sunday from insurgents seeking to wrest back territory controlled by Kiev during the nearly three-year war.



It’s cold. “…temperatures drop to -15 degrees Celsius (5 degrees Farenheit) at night and the homes in Avdiivka are in dire need of heating.”

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko “is worried that Donald Trump’s victory in the US presidential election and praise for Russia’s Vladimir Putin may add fuel to a conflict that began shortly after Ukraine’s 2014 ouster of its Moscow-backed leader and tilt toward the West.”

There are back and forth accusations over which side started the fighting in Avdiivka but “An AFP reporter saw the separatists shell the town of about 20,000 people with repeated rounds of Grad multiple rocket systems and artillery fire from the early morning.”


RELATED: The EU says the fighting in Avdiivka is a blatant violation (http://www.france24.com/en/20170131-ukraine-clashes-blatant-violation-minsk-accords-eu)of the Minsk ceasefire accord.

France and Germany helped broker the Minsk accords with Moscow and Kiev, and European Union leaders tied implementation to a series of sanctions, including very damaging economic restrictions, against Russia.

Fighting in eastern Ukraine has waxed and waned since then, with Brussels insisting repeatedly there can be no change to the sanctions regime until the accord sticks.



Another supposedly indefinite ceasefire went into effect December 23, 2016. But it hasn’t been respected.


DEEP BACKGROUND FROM AUGUST 2016 (https://strategypage.com/qnd/russia/articles/20160805.aspx): Russia is paying an economic price for the Ukraine war. That price has domestic political implications.

For example, in 2014 the government announced a $70 billion ten year program to revive the moribund Russian space program. That has since been cut to $20 billion. What a lot of Russians noticed (and discuss on the Internet) is that the $70 billion spending plan was announced right after Russia had taken Crimea from Ukraine and while world oil prices were plunging. The government apparently did not consider either of these developments would do any long-term damage to Russia. So many Russians wonder what else their leaders have misinterpreted.



Scroll through the update and you’ll find a section devoted to Ukraine. It has background on the Donetsk People’s Republic and Luhansk People’s Republic — two state-lets within Ukraine the Kremlin created.

Kathianne
01-31-2017, 06:21 PM
Looks like it's being noticed:

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/317182-if-the-world-blinks-putin-will-seize-the-rest-of-ukraine

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2017/0131/Is-Putin-stepping-up-the-violence-in-eastern-Ukraine

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38807778

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/01/31/coal-miners-rescued-as-fighting-increases-in-eastern-ukraine.html

Balu
02-01-2017, 12:02 AM
Looks like it's being noticed:

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/317182-if-the-world-blinks-putin-will-seize-the-rest-of-ukraine

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2017/0131/Is-Putin-stepping-up-the-violence-in-eastern-Ukraine

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38807778

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/01/31/coal-miners-rescued-as-fighting-increases-in-eastern-ukraine.html
It looks as if the West is not aware yet that Russia DOESN'T conduct combat actions in Ukraine. To be convinced one can compare Syria and Ukraine if you doesn't trust the OSCE reports that THERE IS NO Russian army units in Ukraine. :laugh:

Kathianne
02-01-2017, 12:07 AM
It looks as if the West is not aware yet that Russia DOESN'T conduct combat actions in Ukraine. To be convinced one can compare Syria and Ukraine if you doesn't trust the OSCE reports that THERE IS NO Russian army units in Ukraine. :laugh:

One analogy that does come to mind about Russian involvement in both Ukraine and Syria (or Iran, Palestinian Territories, Africa with China, etc.) are the proxies.

For such a 'strong' nation, little appetite for straight on actions. Rather hide behind others and say, 'Our dirty hands are clean.' Please read Tass.

Balu
02-01-2017, 12:26 AM
One analogy that does come to mind about Russian involvement in both Ukraine and Syria (or Iran, Palestinian Territories, Africa with China, etc.) are the proxies.

For such a 'strong' nation, little appetite for straight on actions. Rather hide behind others and say, 'Our dirty hands are clean.' Please read Tass.
There is another analogy. The Western media appeared to be capable students of Dr. Goebbels who taught - "The Lie repeated a hundred times becomes the Truth." To get convinced, look back at the recent US election campaign. :laugh:

Kathianne
02-01-2017, 12:34 AM
There is another analogy. The Western media appeared to be capable students of Dr. Goebbels who taught - "The Lie repeated a hundred times becomes the Truth." To to get convinced, look back at the recent US election campaign. :laugh:

Beyond kettle and pot. You'll note little trouble in criticizing politicians or each other here. Wouldn't advise you do the same where you are, no matter your position.

I may bemoan the loss of civil discourse, may note how it is eroding our trust in government and other institutions, but we are still lightyears ahead of your system.

I'd return the :laugh:, but there is so little funny about what you post.

You'd be a much better ambassador for your country by posting more about your country and its people, while noting how 'we Americans' converse, agree and disagree.

You're continual sniping at us, along with the laughable pro-Russian articles have many either :rolleyes: or :laugh2: at you and your propaganda.

Balu
02-01-2017, 12:51 AM
Beyond kettle and pot. You'll note little trouble in criticizing politicians or each other here. Wouldn't advise you do the same where you are, no matter your position.

I may bemoan the loss of civil discourse, may note how it is eroding our trust in government and other institutions, but we are still lightyears ahead of your system.

I'd return the :laugh:, but there is so little funny about what you post.

You'd be a much better ambassador for your country by posting more about your country and it's people, while noting how 'we Americans' converse, agree and disagree.

You're continual sniping at us, along with the laughable pro-Russian articles have many either :rolleyes: or :laugh2: at you and your propaganda.
Do enjoy another piece of propaganda which may explain the situation in Donbass. They just didn't want to recognize the Nazi puppet government put in Ukraine by Americans as a result of a coup financed and conducted by the USA. :laugh:

"Fuck the EU!" (original File) - Victoria Nuland phoning with Geoffrey Pyatt


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV9J6sxCs5k

Kathianne
02-01-2017, 01:15 AM
Do enjoy another piece of propaganda which may explain the situation in Donbass. They just didn't want to recognize the Nazi puppet government put in Ukraine by Americans as a result of a coup financed and conducted by the USA. :laugh:

"Fuck the EU!" (original File) - Victoria Nuland phoning with Geoffrey Pyatt



You have an excellent grasp of English, both UK and US versions-something most English first speakers seem to have problems with. Your government must have excellent professors.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem that the nuances between the Western countries are so easily comprehended. You DO know how often the US makes unfavorable cracks about the French? The French and English? Don't get started on that relationship. Oh, if the US citizens ever get arrogant, all they need to do is listen to their European cousins, no shortage of criticism of the 'Ugly Americans' and worse. The US and UK have fought a couple wars against each other, more as allies. Even with the Revolution we were fairly quickly reconciled, at least until the need for a reminder popped up again, but that was a silly little war.

While all the West won't necessarily or even likely come together as one when push comes, by the time the shove does, we do tend to hang together.

Are Europe's interests the same as the US interests? All countries in Western Europe? Likely not. However, there are so many things that connect us, principles and philosophy being two that come to mind. The undoing would be when the fabric of those principles and philosophies fray. Yes, care must be taken regarding those.

However, with the East there are many more differences than commonalities. Your postings actually highlight many of them. It's a shame, because when it comes to art, history, writings, and music-the cultural-many Americans would be fortunate to exposure. Some of your posts actually do that.

However your attempts at going into discussions of the wonders of Putin or your military or threats in the Middle East? Not so much, you drive a wedge among some folks that did nothing to bring a fight other than be on a messageboard, an American based messageboard.

Balu
02-01-2017, 02:04 AM
You have an excellent grasp of English, both UK and US versions-something most English first speakers seem to have problems with. Your government must have excellent professors.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem that the nuances between the Western countries are so easily comprehended. You DO know how often the US makes unfavorable cracks about the French? The French and English? Don't get started on that relationship. Oh, if the US citizens ever get arrogant, all they need to do is listen to their European cousins, no shortage of criticism of the 'Ugly Americans' and worse. The US and UK have fought a couple wars against each other, more as allies. Even with the Revolution we were fairly quickly reconciled, at least until the need for a reminder popped up again, but that was a silly little war.

While all the West won't necessarily or even likely come together as one when push comes, by the time the shove does, we do tend to hang together.

Are Europe's interests the same as the US interests? All countries in Western Europe? Likely not. However, there are so many things that connect us, principles and philosophy being two that come to mind. The undoing would be when the fabric of those principles and philosophies fray. Yes, care must be taken regarding those.

However, with the East there are many more differences than commonalities. Your postings actually highlight many of them. It's a shame, because when it comes to art, history, writings, and music-the cultural-many Americans would be fortunate to exposure. Some of your posts actually do that.

However your attempts at going into discussions of the wonders of Putin or your military or threats in the Middle East? Not so much, you drive a wedge among some folks that did nothing to bring a fight other than be on a messageboard, an American based messageboard.
You see, Kathianne, unfortunately the USA is too far from Russia to recommend visiting my country to have own impression. It is too expensive to the majority of you to afford themselves such an experience. For us it is much easier - 3 hours flight and you can found yourself in Paris, Rome, Berlin, London, Madrid etc. A lot of Russians know foreign languages, so there are no language barriers to learn people countries and achieve mutual understanding. The picture of the world becomes more correct comparing with that, seen through the lens of Media. Lens often change the spectrum and a picture itself. In the Soviet Union, in the parks, there were attractions which were called "laughing room". They are a good illustration to what I've said. So, I really want any of you to visit Russia and see everything your own eyes. You will found yourself in a Wonderland and will really enjoy and love getting acquainted with Russians in our Homeland.http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/he_and_she/give_rose.gif


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjI1AWx2_SI

Kathianne
02-01-2017, 02:07 AM
Balu, that is why I opined that you would do a service by telling more about your country's history and people. You get some idea of the US from what you read here, if you go beyond the political.

Balu
02-01-2017, 02:37 AM
Balu, that is why I opined that you would do a service by telling more about your country's history and people. You get some idea of the US from what you read here, if you go beyond the political.
All what I can say and show are MY words and eyes, but not yours. In this respect there is no principal difference between me and any journalist.
In the Soviet Union, when we had harsh restrictions to travel abroad, there was a TV program "TV club of Travelers over the World" with its constant leading Mr. Senkevichem. So then, on this occasion, there was a joke - 'We do not want to see the World through the eyes of Sienkiewicz!'
As to what I learned from reading your posts - Americans remain Americans as you were in 70s. By evident reasons I will not enumerate what upset me. For you it will be not very pleasant to hear. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/he_and_she/give_rose.gif

Kathianne
02-01-2017, 02:40 AM
All what I can say and show are MY words and eyes, but not yours. In this respect there is no principal difference between me and any journalist.
In the Soviet Union, when we had harsh restrictions to travel abroad, there was a TV program "TV club of Travelers over the World" with its constant leading Mr. Senkevichem. So then, on this occasion, there was a joke - 'We do not want to see the World through the eyes of Sienkiewicz!'
As to what I learned from reading your posts - Americans remain Americans as you were in 70s. By evident reasons I will not enumerate what upset me. For you it will be not very pleasant to hear. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/he_and_she/give_rose.gif

Then you are wise not to insult, when you are here at no invitation from anyone, just welcomed. Speaking of 'ugly' to come to something free and insult those who share. That would certainly be ignorant, no?

Balu
02-01-2017, 02:58 AM
Then you are wise not to insult, when you are here at no invitation from anyone, just welcomed. Speaking of 'ugly' to come to something free and insult those who share. That would certainly be ignorant, no?
I never suspected that this board is a kind of a Club with an entrance at invitation of the registered members. Sorry. I will correct my mistake.

Balu
02-01-2017, 05:04 AM
Revised my PM. Have to disappoint you, Kathianne. I didn't violate the procedure you mentioned. I have the personal request to remain. So, you will have to put up with my presence, and the fact that I say and will say or not what I think to be worth or not.

Kathianne
02-01-2017, 08:25 AM
Revised my PM. Have to disappoint you, Kathianne. I didn't violate the procedure you mentioned. I have the personal request to remain. So, you will have to put up with my presence, and the fact that I say and will say or not what I think to be worth or not.
Your English is too good to pretend to misunderstand what I said. Doesn't work that way.

All I'd said is that you came here of your own volition, no one said, "Hey come! No repercussions like those here that insult folks all over the place. Be as rude as you like, you're special!"

In no way was it a ban, I'm not subtle at warning anyone.

Balu
02-01-2017, 09:01 AM
Your English is too good to pretend to misunderstand what I said. Doesn't work that way.

All I'd said is that you came here of your own volition, no one said, "Hey come! No repercussions like those here that insult folks all over the place. Be as rude as you like, you're special!"

In no way was it a ban, I'm not subtle at warning anyone.
First, thank your for your flattering me. But it doesn't work, as I am able to estimate the level of my English comparing with what it was like. And the second - if you don't say what I must do and don't I'll never tell you where you should go. Nobody here have seen me being rude yet. And hope you'll never see it.http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/he_and_she/give_rose.gif

Kathianne
02-01-2017, 09:07 AM
First, thank your for your flattering me. But it doesn't work, as I am able to estimate the level of my English comparing with what it was like. And the second - if you don't say what I must do and don't I'll never tell you where you should go. Nobody here have seen me being rude yet. And hope you'll never see it.http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/he_and_she/give_rose.gif

Indeed, it was not false flatter, you understood very well. You know I wasn't telling you how or what to post, rather that I think it rude. Not prohibited.

gabosaurus
02-01-2017, 09:48 PM
Putin is moving on the Ukraine again because he knows Trump doesn't care. And is powerless to stop him.
I can see Putin moving to regain all the former Soviet states. Trump will withdraw behind his "America First" pledge (and his financial debts to the Russians) and claim it is not our business.
Neville Chamberlain would love it.

CSM
02-02-2017, 07:52 AM
Putin is moving on the Ukraine again because he knows Trump doesn't care. And is powerless to stop him.
I can see Putin moving to regain all the former Soviet states. Trump will withdraw behind his "America First" pledge (and his financial debts to the Russians) and claim it is not our business.
Neville Chamberlain would love it.

Yeah, cuz Obama and the Congress stopped Putin in his tracks and now Trump ruined it all!

Balu
02-02-2017, 09:05 AM
Putin is moving on the Ukraine again because he knows Trump doesn't care. And is powerless to stop him.
I can see Putin moving to regain all the former Soviet states. Trump will withdraw behind his "America First" pledge (and his financial debts to the Russians) and claim it is not our business.
Neville Chamberlain would love it.
gabosaurus,
Is it true that you are a Jew, emigrated from the USSR/Russia? http://s19.rimg.info/aee19e2775457d135efdf745e7d94e15.gif (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-1224821991.html)

Gunny
02-02-2017, 11:02 AM
There is another analogy. The Western media appeared to be capable students of Dr. Goebbels who taught - "The Lie repeated a hundred times becomes the Truth." To get convinced, look back at the recent US election campaign. :laugh:

I can't believe THAT even came out of your mouth. YOU are a Goebbels clone. All you do is bombard this board with Russian propaganda.

While it's far from perfect, our people say whatever the Hell they want, no matter how stupid or goofy.

And Kath nailed the "proxy wars" on the head. At least we fight our own. Russia hasn't gotten over the ass-kicking they took from the muhajadeen 30 years ago.:laugh:

pete311
02-02-2017, 01:59 PM
Ukraine is so weak. Putin is licking his chops now that he is buddies with Trump

Drummond
02-02-2017, 08:57 PM
It looks as if the West is not aware yet that Russia DOESN'T conduct combat actions in Ukraine. To be convinced one can compare Syria and Ukraine if you doesn't trust the OSCE reports that THERE IS NO Russian army units in Ukraine. :laugh:

Really ? Well ... there definitely WERE ....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11506774/Separatist-fighter-admits-Russian-tanks-troops-decisive-in-eastern-Ukraine-battles.html


Russian tanks and soldiers have been “decisive” in winning key battles against government troops in eastern Ukraine, the commander of a separatist “special forces” detachment has admitted.

The Kremlin denies sending men and military vehicles to fight in Ukraine, but Dmitry Sapozhnikov told the BBC that regular army units sent from Russia and commanded by Russian officers were key in seizing the strategic town of Debaltseve in February.

Mr Sapozhnikov, a Russian from St Petersburg who is now on leave in his home town, went to fight in Ukraine in October and led a detachment of volunteer “special forces” fighters under rebel control.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30025138


Nato has seen Russian military equipment and Russian combat troops entering Ukraine this week, its top commander Gen Philip Breedlove says.

Nato chief Jens Stoltenberg later urged Russia to pull back its forces.

Russia's defence ministry denied sending troops to eastern Ukraine to help pro-Russian separatists there.

The European OSCE monitoring mission has warned of "a real risk" of further escalation in a conflict that has killed more than 4,000 people.

http://europe.newsweek.com/putins-secret-warriors-tales-three-russian-soldiers-sent-fight-ukraine-328338?rm=eu


On March 2, 2015, U.S. Army Europe Commander Ben Hodges estimated that 12,000 Russian soldiers, including “military advisers, weapons operators and combat troops,” are active in eastern Ukraine.

The Russian military is sending its soldiers across the border to mix with Russian-instigated separatist forces in Ukraine. Once in eastern Ukraine, these soldiers are no longer considered Russian; rather they are told to refer to themselves as “local defense forces,” aiding the separatist soldiers with additional manpower and Russian equipment.

The Russian government denies that regular Russian soldiers are fighting and dying throughout eastern Ukraine. However, the presence of Russian soldiers on Ukrainian territory has become undeniable following the steady stream of coffins returning to Russia under the label “Cargo 200.”

A series of exposé reports from local Russian news outlets, and a number of cases in which Russian soldiers accidentally revealed their presence in Ukraine on social media, confirm that the regular Russian military is active in Ukraine. Both Western and Russian journalists have uncovered the troubling details of active Russian soldiers who have died or suffered serious injuries in Ukraine.

Thanks for the pro-Putin propaganda, Balu .. it would be very entertaining, if it weren't for my belief that Putin is power-mad and a threat to world stability.

But .. I prefer the TRUTH to propaganda - 'sorry'.

Balu
02-02-2017, 11:15 PM
Really ? Well ... there definitely WERE ....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11506774/Separatist-fighter-admits-Russian-tanks-troops-decisive-in-eastern-Ukraine-battles.html



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30025138



http://europe.newsweek.com/putins-secret-warriors-tales-three-russian-soldiers-sent-fight-ukraine-328338?rm=eu



Thanks for the pro-Putin propaganda, Balu .. it would be very entertaining, if it weren't for my belief that Putin is power-mad and a threat to world stability.

But .. I prefer the TRUTH to propaganda - 'sorry'.
You've just confirmed that the West Media are capable students of Dr. Goebbels and have taught his lesson - 'A Lie repeated for a one hundred times became the Truth'
Hand over my 'best regards' to 'white helmets', if you be able to find them.
Next time if you want to spread your Lie again do not hesitate to enumerate the numbers of Russian military unites engaged or eat your bull shit yourself. :laugh: