Liberalnation HATES America, AND WANTS YOU TO KNOW IT!

[Pale Rider]

She is spitting in the face of every veteran here, and everyone who's ever had family in the military, and anyone that truely loves this country and is a patriot. She is taking pleasure in pissing on all of us who love America. Her burning American flag avatar is the ultimate display of disrespect to us all, and she is loving it.

So, with the facts known, this is a hypothetical poll. The questions are....

1) I love her avatar, and want her to keep it up because...

2) I hate her avatar, and want it taken down because...

Please, this is a matter about America. We don't need foreigners voting in this poll. Your vote won't count.

[dan]

You need a third option: I don't care because it's just a picture and she's made it clear she's just trying to get a rise out of everyone.

[Angel Heart]

There should be a third choice of... Hate it but understand it's a right to freedom of expression.

So what if it offends you or even myself. Get over it.

I will defend the right to freedom of expression even if I disagree with it.

[nevadamedic]

She's made it clear in several threads that she is only doing it because she knows it is pissing Pale off. It's just a damn picture, she said she doesn't endorse it. Granted it's the wring way to get attention, no need to make this big of a deal about it.

[JohnDoe]

Personally, YOUR Avatar is much more offensive and vulgar, than hers, Pale....but as Abbey says, I will defend your right to insult me and my family and my neighbors....because I am American and understand the first amendment.

[PostmodernProphet]

I expect this thread just guaranteed another month of looking at her avatar.....

[red states rule]

Personally, YOUR Avatar is much more offensive and vulgar, than hers, Pale....but as Abbey says, I will defend your right to insult me and my family and my neighbors....because I am American and understand the first amendment.

I like Pales avatar.

How is he insulting you, and your family?

[JohnDoe]

I like Pales avatar.

How is he insulting you, and your family?
good morning rsr,

I am a Liberal... though conservative on some issues, my mom and dad who served 22 years in the USAF are Liberals, my sister is a Liberal, my grandparents on my Father's side were Liberals, my church going neighbors are Liberal, and a friend of mine serving in Iraq right now is a LIBERAL.....

so when people like Pale, continually say that Liberals SUCK in their Avatars, or in their posts, they are saying personally, that I SUCK and my family SUCKS and that my neighbors SUCK etc....

It is a blatent, general insult and a meant to be demeaning statement about his fellow Americans....

Now you can like this and think it's grand, but to me, an avatar that flashes LIBERALS SUCK, is vulgar, insulting, and unamerican. And maybe I am being a little sensitive, I'll grant all of you that....and maybe I grew up differently and was taught differently by my "Liberal" parents , (that suck as people... according to Pale), that there is no place for personal insults in a good argument against or for a cause.

All of my relatives on my husband's side are Conservatives, Church going, Home schooling children, conservatives. I have been married 17 years and they never, ever would insult me just because I am a Democrat and I would Never, Ever even think of insulting them, because they are Republicans...they are good, loving people....and they know that I am too, and that my family is too.

So, like I said, it could be that I am being a little sensitive here, maybe because I am a female, maybe cuz I wouldn't hurt a fly without feeling some sort of remorse.... I really am a wimp, I admit it....feel sorry for everyone that's in bad shape kind of person....a liberal! :D lol

[red states rule]

good morning rsr,

I am a Liberal... though conservative on some issues, my mom and dad who served 22 years in the USAF are Liberals, my sister is a Liberal, my grandparents on my Father's side were Liberals, my church going neighbors are Liberal, and a friend of mine serving in Iraq right now is a LIBERAL.....

so when people like Pale, continually say that Liberals SUCK in their Avatars, or in their posts, they are saying personally, that I SUCK and my family SUCKS and that my neighbors SUCK etc....

It is a blatent, general insult and a meant to be demeaning statement about his fellow Americans....

Now you can like this and think it's grand, but to me, an avatar that flashes LIBERALS SUCK, is vulgar, insulting, and unamerican. And maybe I am being a little sensitive, I'll grant all of you that....and maybe I grew up differently and was taught differently by my "Liberal" parents , (that suck as people... according to Pale), that there is no place for personal insults in a good argument against or for a cause.

All of my relatives on my husband's side are Conservatives, Church going, Home schooling children, conservatives. I have been married 17 years and they never, ever would insult me just because I am a Democrat and I would Never, Ever even think of insulting them, because they are Republicans...they are good, loving people....and they know that I am too, and that my family is too.

So, like I said, it could be that I am being a little sensitive here, maybe because I am a female, maybe cuz I wouldn't hurt a fly without feeling some sort of remorse.... I really am a wimp, I admit it....feel sorry for everyone that's in bad shape kind of person....a liberal! :D lol

It is not as insulting as the mondern day moonbat libs are doing and saying about this contry

If want to see the hate that is flowing into poltiics - look at your party today

I have gotten death threats over my letters to the editor to my local paper

[jackass]

The only thing that is happening because of this thread is Liberal is getting all the attention that she wants. Maybe just Maybe if people just ignored her immature cries for attention she wouldnt do it.

[red states rule]

The only thing that is happening because of this thread is Liberal is getting all the attention that she wants. Maybe just Maybe if people just ignored her immature cries for attention she wouldnt do it.

I put her on my ignore list - now if about 20 other people would the problem would be solved

[Pale Rider]

You need a third option: I don't care because it's just a picture and she's made it clear she's just trying to get a rise out of everyone.

Wrong. It's only partly about her. The other point is you either approve of burning the American flag or you don't.

Now where do you stand?

[Pale Rider]

There should be a third choice of... Hate it but understand it's a right to freedom of expression.

So what if it offends you or even myself. Get over it.

I will defend the right to freedom of expression even if I disagree with it.

It shouldn't be allowed. If you hate it, then you hate it. Freedom of expression my ache'n ass. It's the symbol of this country and all those who've died for it, and you think it's fine and dandy to burn it? What kind of American are you?

[Pale Rider]

She's made it clear in several threads that she is only doing it because she knows it is pissing Pale off. It's just a damn picture, she said she doesn't endorse it. Granted it's the wring way to get attention, no need to make this big of a deal about it.

"It's just a damn picture?" That's what you think of burning an American flag? Fuck you!

[red states rule]

Wrong. It's only partly about her. The other point is you either approve of burning the American flag or you don't.

Now where do you stand?

I don't approve of it

It is a sick way for the moonbat left to express their hate for America

[Pale Rider]

Personally, YOUR Avatar is much more offensive and vulgar, than hers, Pale....but as Abbey says, I will defend your right to insult me and my family and my neighbors....because I am American and understand the first amendment.

Personally, I think YOU are offensive, because I put burning the American flag, and those who stand around wringing their hands like pussies while they watch it burn, right up there with the liberal cock suckers that are trying to hand this country over to the illegal aliens.

[Pale Rider]

I expect this thread just guaranteed another month of looking at her avatar.....

And I hope that results in a deeper hate for her.

[red states rule]

And I hope that results in a deeper hate for her.

Seems to be heading in that direction

[OCA]

She's made it clear in several threads that she is only doing it because she knows it is pissing Pale off. It's just a damn picture, she said she doesn't endorse it. Granted it's the wring way to get attention, no need to make this big of a deal about it.

Its a picture of the American flag burning you anti-American moron.

Doesn't matter if she's using it to get a rise or not, it needs to come down and come down this week it will whether by her hand or not.

[Pale Rider]

good morning rsr,

I am a Liberal... though conservative on some issues, my mom and dad who served 22 years in the USAF are Liberals, my sister is a Liberal, my grandparents on my Father's side were Liberals, my church going neighbors are Liberal, and a friend of mine serving in Iraq right now is a LIBERAL.....

so when people like Pale, continually say that Liberals SUCK in their Avatars, or in their posts, they are saying personally, that I SUCK and my family SUCKS and that my neighbors SUCK etc....

It is a blatent, general insult and a meant to be demeaning statement about his fellow Americans....

Now you can like this and think it's grand, but to me, an avatar that flashes LIBERALS SUCK, is vulgar, insulting, and unamerican. And maybe I am being a little sensitive, I'll grant all of you that....and maybe I grew up differently and was taught differently by my "Liberal" parents , (that suck as people... according to Pale), that there is no place for personal insults in a good argument against or for a cause.

All of my relatives on my husband's side are Conservatives, Church going, Home schooling children, conservatives. I have been married 17 years and they never, ever would insult me just because I am a Democrat and I would Never, Ever even think of insulting them, because they are Republicans...they are good, loving people....and they know that I am too, and that my family is too.

So, like I said, it could be that I am being a little sensitive here, maybe because I am a female, maybe cuz I wouldn't hurt a fly without feeling some sort of remorse.... I really am a wimp, I admit it....feel sorry for everyone that's in bad shape kind of person....a liberal! :D lol

Liberals DO suck. You and your kind in office now have the LOWEST approval rating in the HISTORY of this country, and they did it in record time.

[red states rule]

Liberals DO suck. You and your kind in office now have the LOWEST approval rating in the HISTORY of this country, and they did it record time.

She is not a mootbat lib. I know her from the USMB - she is a liberal but not a hate filled lib Pale

[OCA]

good morning rsr,

I am a Liberal... though conservative on some issues, my mom and dad who served 22 years in the USAF are Liberals, my sister is a Liberal, my grandparents on my Father's side were Liberals, my church going neighbors are Liberal, and a friend of mine serving in Iraq right now is a LIBERAL.....

so when people like Pale, continually say that Liberals SUCK in their Avatars, or in their posts, they are saying personally, that I SUCK and my family SUCKS and that my neighbors SUCK etc....

It is a blatent, general insult and a meant to be demeaning statement about his fellow Americans....

Now you can like this and think it's grand, but to me, an avatar that flashes LIBERALS SUCK, is vulgar, insulting, and unamerican. And maybe I am being a little sensitive, I'll grant all of you that....and maybe I grew up differently and was taught differently by my "Liberal" parents , (that suck as people... according to Pale), that there is no place for personal insults in a good argument against or for a cause.

All of my relatives on my husband's side are Conservatives, Church going, Home schooling children, conservatives. I have been married 17 years and they never, ever would insult me just because I am a Democrat and I would Never, Ever even think of insulting them, because they are Republicans...they are good, loving people....and they know that I am too, and that my family is too.

So, like I said, it could be that I am being a little sensitive here, maybe because I am a female, maybe cuz I wouldn't hurt a fly without feeling some sort of remorse.... I really am a wimp, I admit it....feel sorry for everyone that's in bad shape kind of person....a liberal! :D lol

I guarantee you they make fun of you behind your back.

Liberals and liberalism don't suck? Name me one positive result in America that has come out of liberalism in action.

[Pale Rider]

She is not a mootbat lib. I know her from the USMB - she is a liberal but not a hate filled lib Pale

Maybe not. But she takes no reservation in sticking up for her kind. That's fine. Then she shouldn't be offended by the truth.

[Abbey Marie]

Personally, YOUR Avatar is much more offensive and vulgar, than hers, Pale....but as Abbey says, I will defend your right to insult me and my family and my neighbors....because I am American and understand the first amendment.

Just to clarify, that quote was Angel Heart's, not mine.

Carry on... :)

[red states rule]

Maybe not. But she takes no reservation in sticking up for her kind. That's fine. She shouldn't be offfended by the truth.

But she is not out to piss off people like LN

She is willing ro have a straight up debate with anyone. Lord knows she and I never agree on the issues, but we have never exchanged an unkind word between us

[red states rule]

Just to clarify, that quote was Angel Heart's, not mine.

Carry on... :)

Thanks

I do not want anyone to make any false statments about you

You are a liberal - but you are not a moonbat liberal. There is a difference

[OCA]

Thanks

I do not want anyone to make any false statments about you

You are a liberal - but you are not a moonbat liberal. There is a difference

ABBEY IS A LIBERAL???????????????????:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Come on Red, I think your scorecard needs to be adjusted.

[JohnDoe]

Wrong. It's only partly about her. The other point is you either approve of burning the American flag or you don't.

Now where do you stand?

I'm with Abbey and Nevada and others, it's a flag, an inanimate object, I support the Constitutional right to burn it as an expression of the party burning it, IF IT IS THEIR FLAG, that they purchased.

I wonder if you were part of the American Revolution, what side you would have been on...the side of the Brits, who saw the burning of the british flag as treason, or the side of the American Revolutionists?

Making a tizzy fit over an avatar of a flag burning, and insisting that your fellow Americans side with YOU on this very "American-free speech issue", would be UNAMERICAN imho, and a mistake....

And honestly Pale, I can understand how it upsets you...but I do not see it as unamerican.

And in truth, I love that fact that you can come on here and bitch about it...and even though personally insulting to me, your avatar IS A FORM of FREE SPEECH, and I support your freedom to post such.

My post above....well....it was just me being whiney... sorry! :D

[red states rule]

ABBEY IS A LIBERAL???????????????????:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Come on Red, I think your scorecard needs to be adjusted.

I was talking about Johndoe not Abbey

My mistake - replied to the wrong post

[Abbey Marie]

I'm with Abbey and Nevada and others, it's a flag, an inanimate object, I support the Constitutional right to burn it as an expression of the party burning it, IF IT IS THEIR FLAG, that they purchased it.

I wonder if you were part of the American Revolution, what side you would have been on...the side of the Brits, who saw the burning of the british flag as treason, or the side of the American Revolutionists?

Making a tizzy fit over an avatar of a flag burning, and insisting that your fellow Americans side with YOU on this very "American-free speech issue", would be UNAMERICAN imho, and a mistake....

And honestly Pale, I can understand how it upsets you...but I do not see it as unamerican.

And in truth, I love that fact that you can come on here and bitch about it...and even though personally insulting to me, your avatar IS A FORM of FREE SPEECH, and I support your freedom to post such.

My post above....well....it was just me being whiney... sorry! :D

JD, I think you are still confusing me with Angel Heart.

[OCA]

I was talking about Johndoe not Abbey

My mistake - replied to the wrong post

Come on red, get with it!:laugh2:

[red states rule]

Come on red, get with it!:laugh2:

We all make mistakes OCA - even you (once in awhile)

[JohnDoe]

JD, I think you are still confusing me with Angel Heart.
oops! lol ;) sorry, your name...is my kitty girl's name and she is ALWAYS ON MY MIND.....lol

[Abbey Marie]

oops! lol ;)

It's a-ight. :salute:

[red states rule]

oops! lol ;)



:slap:

[82Marine89]

I hate her avatar, and want her to take it down because...

It is the burning of the American flag. The symbol of liberty and freedom through out this great Nation. If you want to burn it, expect me to use your face to put it out. That is not an idle threat either. Burning that flag is no different than burning the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution. It is not freedom of expression, it is a spit in the face to all of those who have served and gave their lives in defense of that flag and this great Nation.

[JohnDoe]

Thanks

I do not want anyone to make any false statments about you

You are a liberal - but you are not a moonbat liberal. There is a difference

thank you rsr :salute:

[red states rule]

thank you rsr :salute:

Hey, I call them as I see them

You are welcome my friend

[JohnDoe]

It is the burning of the American flag. The symbol of liberty and freedom through out this great Nation. If you want to burn it, expect me to use your face to put it out. That is not an idle threat either. Burning that flag is no different than burning the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution. It is not freedom of expression, it is a spit in the face to all of those who have served and gave their lives in defense of that flag and this great Nation.


Our founding fathers burned the flag they were under, and it wasn't even a flag that they purchased. They understood the importance of us being able to do such, in my opinion.

I think people burning the flag for no good cause is like the little girl crying wolf, and is used too much...

So that someday, when we may really need to burn the American Flag to show our govt that we are displeased with their tyrany, as the Revolutionists were with their government, it may not have the same strong meaning that it should! But outside of banning the burning of the flag, I don't know what to do about it...

And it is the right to free speech, I firmly believe that burning the American Flag is a form of free speech showing displeasure with the governing body and constitutionally sound no matter how upsetting it is when used so haphazzardly by some.

[82Marine89]

I'm with Abbey and Nevada and others, it's a flag, an inanimate object, I support the Constitutional right to burn it as an expression of the party burning it, IF IT IS THEIR FLAG, that they purchased.

Inanimate? So the Constitution is a living, breathing document but the flag that represents it is inanimate?


I wonder if you were part of the American Revolution, what side you would have been on...the side of the Brits, who saw the burning of the british flag as treason, or the side of the American Revolutionists?

That's not analogous. The Americans were forming a new country and were fighting for their freedom. They already had some "inanimate" object to represent them and it was not the Union Jack.

[red states rule]

Our founding fathers burned the flag they were under, and it wasn't even a flag that they purchased. They understood the importance of us being able to do such, in my opinion.

I think people burning the flag for no good cause is like the little girl crying wolf, and is used too much...

So that someday, when we may really need to burn the American Flag to show our govt that we are displeased with their tyrany, as the Revolutionists were with their government, it may not have the same strong meaning that it should! But outside of banning the burning of the flag, I don't know what to do about it...

And it is the right to free speech, I firmly believe that burning the American Flag is a form of free speech showing displeasure with the governing body and constitutionally sound no matter how upsetting it is when used so haphazzardly by some.


I have seen peace niks not only burn the US flag, but a US soldier in effigy. At peace nik anti war rally a returning soldier from Iraq (who lost a leg) was spit at because he supported the war

To me, the left has all the hate and rage and are not shy to unleash it

[JohnDoe]

Inanimate? So the Constitution is a living, breathing document but the flag that represents it is inanimate?



That's not analogous. The Americans were forming a new country and were fighting for their freedom. They already had some "inanimate" object to represent them and it was not the Union Jack.

But 82 Marine, did you take oath to serve the American Flag or to defend the Constitution? The latter is my understanding....?

The Constitution is made up of very valuable words with very valuable meaning imo, while the flag has no words attached. And I do not believe the Constitution is a Living (changing) document, I believe it is what it is, no more and no less.

[JohnDoe]

I have seen peace niks not only burn the US flag, but a US soldier in effigy. At peace nik anti war rally a returning soldier from Iraq (who lost a leg) was spit at because he supported the war

To me, the left has all the hate and rage and are not shy to unleash it


Rsr, whoever that person was, whether they were liberal or they were not, that spit on that soldier, is a dispicable human being. They did not spit on him because they were liberal, they spit on him, as I said, because they were a dispicable human being, with no feeling or thought to what they were doing to this other, brave, person.

You know there have been acts by Conservatives that have been dispicable acts too, like Representative Foley's, but that does NOT MEAN that every republican has an affinity for the young, and are sexually atracted to the young!

[red states rule]

But 82 Marine, did you take oath to serve the American Flag or to defend the Constitution? The latter is my understanding....?

The Constitution is made up of very valuable words with very valuable meaning imo, while the flag has no words attached. And I do not believe the Constitution is a Living (changing) document, I believe it is what it is, no more and no less.

But libs keep finding things in the US Constitution that are not there - and ignore the things that there

To libs, the US Constitution have more positions the a Bill Clinton intern

[nevadamedic]

"It's just a damn picture?" That's what you think of burning an American flag? Fuck you!

No, you know how I feel about burning an American Flag. I hate it and if I saw anyone burning a Flag I would stop them by force if I had to. I think anyone who burns an American Flag needs to get the everloving shit kicked out of them. The only time to EVER burn an American Flag is to retire it.

I have talked with LN and she doesn't support burning a flag, she is doing it because she know's it gets to you. Personally I think Jackass is right, this thread just guaranteed another month of her Avatar.

[jimnyc]

I support the Constitutional right to burn it as an expression of the party burning it, IF IT IS THEIR FLAG, that they purchased.

Can you please quote me something from the Constitution that shows burning the flag is a constitutional right? No matter how hard you try, or interpret, or misread, or take out of context - their is no constitutional right to do so.

But I'll wait for your quote.

[red states rule]

No, you know how I feel about burning an American Flag. I hate it and if I saw anyone burning a Flag I would stop them by force if I had to. I think anyone who burns an American Flag needs to get the everloving shit kicked out of them. The only time to EVER burn an American Flag is to retire it.

I have talked with LN and she doesn't support burning a flag, she is doing it because she know's it gets to you. Personally I think Jackass is right, this thread just guaranteed another month of her Avatar.

Kick their teeth out - then kick them in the gut for mumbling

[nevadamedic]

I'm with Abbey and Nevada and others, it's a flag, an inanimate object, I support the Constitutional right to burn it as an expression of the party burning it, IF IT IS THEIR FLAG, that they purchased.

I wonder if you were part of the American Revolution, what side you would have been on...the side of the Brits, who saw the burning of the british flag as treason, or the side of the American Revolutionists?

Making a tizzy fit over an avatar of a flag burning, and insisting that your fellow Americans side with YOU on this very "American-free speech issue", would be UNAMERICAN imho, and a mistake....

And honestly Pale, I can understand how it upsets you...but I do not see it as unamerican.

And in truth, I love that fact that you can come on here and bitch about it...and even though personally insulting to me, your avatar IS A FORM of FREE SPEECH, and I support your freedom to post such.

My post above....well....it was just me being whiney... sorry! :D

Ack, wait........ I never said I support burning the Flag at all. I just said it's an Avatar and it's not how she really feels so it's not a big deal. I don't think ANYONE should ever burn a Flag, don't twist my words.

[red states rule]

Ack, wait........ I never said I support burning the Flag at all. I just said it's an Avatar and it's not how she really feels so it's not a big deal. I don't think ANYONE should ever burn a Flag, don't twist my words.

Most moonbats are not know for for their ability to win friends and influence people

[dan]

Wrong. It's only partly about her. The other point is you either approve of burning the American flag or you don't.

Now where do you stand?

It's entirely about her. She's openly stated that her avatar is there to piss you off. She doesn't care one way or the other about what it actually shows. It could've just as easily said "Bush Sucks", but she knew the burning flag would piss more people off.

I get where you're coming from, this is just one of those agree-to-disagree things. To me, the flag definitely symbolizes our country, but it's not LITERALLY our country. If someone burns a flag, it's not like the fumes cause anti-Americanism in anybody that sees it. America, patriotism, whatever, lies in the hearts of everyone who lives proudly in this country, not in a piece of cloth.

Look at it like this: remember the uproar over the image of Muhammed being used in cartoons? And how everyone thought that was so ridiculous, that they would care? Same exact thing. Not even as bad, really, because this is putting down your country, whereas that was putting down someone's god. I'm not saying I'd cheer someone on if they were doing it in real life, but I've got much more important things to worry about in my life than a picture posted by an 18-year-old who openly stated that her sole intention is to piss people off. I'm not going to give her the satisfaction.

And, also, I don't think it's good for people to come to a board that claims to be all about free speech, only to find thread after thread of people threatening someone over their avatar. Very hypocritical.

[nevadamedic]

Rsr, whoever that person was, whether they were liberal or they were not, that spit on that soldier, is a dispicable human being. They did not spit on him because they were liberal, they spit on him, as I said, because they were a dispicable human being, with no feeling or thought to what they were doing to this other, brave, person.

You know there have been acts by Conservatives that have been dispicable acts too, like Representative Foley's, but that does NOT MEAN that every republican has an affinity for the young, and are sexually atracted to the young!

Yea well Liberals are Dispicable human beings! WIth the exception of you of course! :salute: Although I am still tripping on the fact that your a woman.....:laugh2:

[nevadamedic]

But libs keep finding things in the US Constitution that are not there - and ignore the things that there

To libs, the US Constitution have more positions the a Bill Clinton intern

RSR, look at Abbey's signature on here about the Constitution, that sums that up.

[red states rule]

RSR, look at Abbey's signature on here about the Constitution, that sums that up.

Well, libs do consider the Ten Commandments as the Ten Recommendations

[dan]

Can you please quote me something from the Constitution that shows burning the flag is a constitutional right? No matter how hard you try, or interpret, or misread, or take out of context - their is no constitutional right to do so.

But I'll wait for your quote.


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

It's an action that doesn't hurt anybody physically or cause anyone any physical discomfort, so it's protected under freedom of speech.

[red states rule]

It's an action that doesn't hurt anybody physically, so it's protected under freedom of speech.

They are the ones who would be harmed physically - when they get the shit beat out of them for durning the US flag

[nevadamedic]

It's an action that doesn't hurt anybody physically or cause anyone any physical discomfort, so it's protected under freedom of speech.

The hell it doesn't.

[red states rule]

The hell it doesn't.

The medics can find him - so they can take him to the ER - by looking for the burning flag

[jimnyc]

It's an action that doesn't hurt anybody physically or cause anyone any physical discomfort, so it's protected under freedom of speech.

Sorry, that's only your interpretation. I'm not saying there's currently a law on the books making it illegal, but THERE IS NOTHING in the constitution in reference to burning the American Flag, or it being a right. It's just not there. You may see it when you read that quote, and it may be your belief that it gives you that right, but again, IT IS NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION. Interpret away if you like, but that's all it is, an interpretation.

[nevadamedic]

Sorry, that's only your interpretation. I'm not saying there's currently a law on the books making it illegal, but THERE IS NOTHING in the constitution in reference to burning the American Flag, or it being a right. It's just not there. You may see it when you read that quote, and it may be your belief that it gives you that right, but again, IT IS NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION. Interpret away if you like, but that's all it is, an interpretation.

There's also nothing in the Constitution keeping that person from getting the best damn ass kicking in their life for burning a Flag either.

[red states rule]

There's also nothing in the Constitution keeping that person from getting the best damn ass kicking in their life for burning a Flag either.

Anyone who burns the flag deserves the beating

[JohnDoe]

Can you please quote me something from the Constitution that shows burning the flag is a constitutional right? No matter how hard you try, or interpret, or misread, or take out of context - their is no constitutional right to do so.

But I'll wait for your quote.The First Amendment.

We have the right to say what we please...without government interference. This is FOR a good reason.

The Supreme Court (i think it made it to the SC?) ruled that burning a flag is basically voicing an opinion. And it is voicing an opinion, just as it was when it was burned by those that later became Revolutionists. They were saying, UP YOURS, to additional taxes that the Brits were forcing upon them.

Burning the Flag is a sign of displeasure, in what your representative government is doing, in your name, without your consent imo. The person burning it is voicing their opinion about their government, and the first amendment is there specifically to protect us from the government's over reach.

Well...that's the best that I can do in explaining how I view it.

[jackass]

I have one question....is burning the flag free speech or no??

Dont answer with wether you agree with it or not...is it a form of free speech that our Constitution gives us?

[82Marine89]

But 82 Marine, did you take oath to serve the American Flag or to defend the Constitution? The latter is my understanding....?

The Constitution is made up of very valuable words with very valuable meaning imo, while the flag has no words attached. And I do not believe the Constitution is a Living (changing) document, I believe it is what it is, no more and no less.

Have you ever listened to what you say when you recite the Pledge of Allegiance? You pledge allegiance to the flag and the Republic for which it stands. A Republic that is a direct representation of the Constitution. So to answer your question, yes.

[red states rule]

The First Amendment.

We have the right to say what we please...without government interference. This is FOR a good reason.

The Supreme Court (i think it made it to the SC?) ruled that burning a flag is basically voicing an opinion. And it is voicing an opinion, just as it was when it was burned by those that later became Revolutionists. They were saying, UP YOURS, to additional taxes that the Brits were forcing upon them.

Burning the Flag is a sign of displeasure, in what your representative government is doing, in your name, without your consent imo. The person burning it is voicing their opinion about their government, and the first amendment is there specifically to protect us from the government's over reach.

Well...that's the best that I can do in explaining how I view it.


and libs so full of hate and rage it spills out on anyone who gets in their way

[nevadamedic]

The First Amendment.

We have the right to say what we please...without government interference. This is FOR a good reason.

The Supreme Court (i think it made it to the SC?) ruled that burning a flag is basically voicing an opinion. And it is voicing an opinion, just as it was when it was burned by those that later became Revolutionists. They were saying, UP YOURS, to additional taxes that the Brits were forcing upon them.

Burning the Flag is a sign of displeasure, in what your representative government is doing, in your name, without your consent imo. The person burning it is voicing their opinion about their government, and the first amendment is there specifically to protect us from the government's over reach.

Well...that's the best that I can do in explaining how I view it.

We have the right to say what we please, not destroy items by arson.

[red states rule]

We have the right to say what we please, not destroy items by arson.

when did that ever stop the angry left?

[nevadamedic]

Have you ever listened to what you say when you recite the Pledge of Allegiance? You pledge allegiance to the flag and the Republic for which it stands. A Republic that is a direct representation of the Constitution. So to answer your question, yes.

The Liberals got the Pledge Of Allegiance banned remember? Using the excuse God was in it and it was insulting to people...... Fucking Liberals.

[jimnyc]

The First Amendment.

We have the right to say what we please...without government interference. This is FOR a good reason.

The Supreme Court (i think it made it to the SC?) ruled that burning a flag is basically voicing an opinion. And it is voicing an opinion, just as it was when it was burned by those that later became Revolutionists. They were saying, UP YOURS, to additional taxes that the Brits were forcing upon them.

Burning the Flag is a sign of displeasure, in what your representative government is doing, in your name, without your consent imo. The person burning it is voicing their opinion about their government, and the first amendment is there specifically to protect us from the government's over reach.

Well...that's the best that I can do in explaining how I view it.

Any judge in the world can interpret it as they see fit, and even find in favor of it being free speech in a legal case. But that doesn't change the fact that IT IS NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION! It's simply others taking the words and interpreting it. Opinions will vary, but it's a FACT that burning the Flag IS NOT a constitutional right. Again, these are interpretations, not quotes from the Constitution.

[red states rule]

The Liberals got the Pledge Of Allegiance banned remember? Using the excuse God was in it and it was insulting to people...... Fucking Liberals.

and they want "In God We Trust" taken off our money

[JohnDoe]

I have one question....is burning the flag free speech or no??

Dont answer with wether you agree with it or not...is it a form of free speech that our Constitution gives us?


yes

And I believe that it might take a Constitutional amendment to change this....but if Kathianne is around, she might know this answer, because I believe she said that she had taught the Constitution in a class...?

[red states rule]

yes

And I believe that it might take a Constitutional amendment to change this....but if Kathianne is around, she might know this answer, because I believe she said that she had taught the Constitution in a class...?

when have libs actually cared what is in the US Constitution? They pick and choose when to follow it

[jimnyc]

yes

And I believe that it might take a Constitutional amendment to change this....but if Kathianne is around, she might know this answer, because I believe she said that she had taught the Constitution in a class...?

No, it IS NOT a right. SHOW IT TO ME IN WRITING. Otherwise you're only stating that judges have upheld the burning of the flag as their interpretation of "freedom of speech". But that can be interpreted differently in a different case and have a different outcome. And why? Because it's NOT WRITTEN AS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT!

[red states rule]

How you can you reason with these nuts? OMG they are blaming Pres Bush for the bridge falling in MN

[PostmodernProphet]

and they want "In God We Trust" taken off our money


do you ever think about whether it's sacriligious to have that phrase printed on dollar bills that get stuffed into stripper's G-strings......

[JohnDoe]

Any judge in the world can interpret it as they see fit, and even find in favor of it being free speech in a legal case. But that doesn't change the fact that IT IS NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION! It's simply others taking the words and interpreting it. Opinions will vary, but it's a FACT that burning the Flag IS NOT a constitutional right. Again, these are interpretations, not quotes from the Constitution.


Here Jim, fyi!!!! Some very smart Justices, disagree with you! And yes, they are holding up the Constitution in this case, as they should.


U.S. Supreme Court
TEXAS v. JOHNSON, 491 U.S. 397 (1989)
491 U.S. 397
TEXAS v. JOHNSON
CERTIORARI TO THE COURT OF CRIMINAL APPEALS OF TEXAS

No. 88-155.

Argued March 21, 1989
Decided June 21, 1989



During the 1984 Republican National Convention in Dallas, Texas, respondent Johnson participated in a political demonstration to protest the policies of the Reagan administration and some Dallas-based corporations. After a march through the city streets, Johnson burned an American flag while protesters chanted. No one was physically injured or threatened with injury, although several witnesses were seriously offended by the flag burning. Johnson was convicted of desecration of a venerated object in violation of a Texas statute, and a State Court of Appeals affirmed. However, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals reversed, holding that the State, consistent with the First Amendment, could not punish Johnson for burning the flag in these circumstances. The court first found that Johnson's burning of the flag was expressive conduct protected by the First Amendment. The court concluded that the State could not criminally sanction flag desecration in order to preserve the flag as a symbol of national unity. It also held that the statute did not meet the State's goal of preventing breaches of the peace, since it was not drawn narrowly enough to encompass only those flag burnings that would likely result in a serious disturbance, and since the flag burning in this case did not threaten such a reaction. Further, it stressed that another Texas statute prohibited breaches of the peace and could be used to prevent disturbances without punishing this flag desecration.

Held:

Johnson's conviction for flag desecration is inconsistent with the First Amendment. Pp. 402-420.


(a) Under the circumstances, Johnson's burning of the flag constituted expressive conduct, permitting him to invoke the First Amendment. The State conceded that the conduct was expressive. Occurring as it did at the end of a demonstration coinciding with the Republican National Convention, the expressive, overtly political nature of the conduct was both intentional and overwhelmingly apparent. Pp. 402-406.

(b) Texas has not asserted an interest in support of Johnson's conviction that is unrelated to the suppression of expression and would therefore permit application of the test set forth in United States v. O'Brien, 391 U.S. 367, whereby an important governmental interest in regulating nonspeech can justify incidental limitations on First Amendment freedoms when speech and nonspeech elements are combined in the same course of conduct. An interest in preventing breaches of the peace is not implicated on this record. Expression may not be prohibited [491 U.S. 397, 398] on the basis that an audience that takes serious offense to the expression may disturb the peace, since the government cannot assume that every expression of a provocative idea will incite a riot but must look to the actual circumstances surrounding the expression. Johnson's expression of dissatisfaction with the Federal Government's policies also does not fall within the class of "fighting words" likely to be seen as a direct personal insult or an invitation to exchange fisticuffs. This Court's holding does not forbid a State to prevent "imminent lawless action" and, in fact, Texas has a law specifically prohibiting breaches of the peace. Texas' interest in preserving the flag as a symbol of nationhood and national unity is related to expression in this case and, thus, falls outside the O'Brien test. Pp. 406-410.

(c) The latter interest does not justify Johnson's conviction. The restriction on Johnson's political expression is content based, since the Texas statute is not aimed at protecting the physical integrity of the flag in all circumstances, but is designed to protect it from intentional and knowing abuse that causes serious offense to others. It is therefore subject to "the most exacting scrutiny." Boos v. Barry, 485 U.S. 312. The government may not prohibit the verbal or nonverbal expression of an idea merely because society finds the idea offensive or disagreeable, even where our flag is involved. Nor may a State foster its own view of the flag by prohibiting expressive conduct relating to it, since the government may not permit designated symbols to be used to communicate a limited set of messages. Moreover, this Court will not create an exception to these principles protected by the First Amendment for the American flag alone. Pp. 410-422.

755 S. W. 2d 92, affirmed.
BRENNAN, J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which MARSHALL, BLACKMUN, SCALIA, and KENNEDY, JJ., joined. KENNEDY, J., filed a concurring opinion, post, p. 420. REHNQUIST, C. J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which WHITE and O'CONNOR, JJ., joined, post, p. 421. STEVENS, J., filed a dissenting opinion, post, p. 436.


the rest of the ruling is here:
http://www.esquilax.com/flag/texasvjohnson.html

it is interesting, imo!

[red states rule]

do you ever think about whether it's sacriligious to have that phrase printed on dollar bills that get stuffed into stripper's G-strings......

ask that question to someone who does that - send an email to Bill Clinton

[jimnyc]

Here Jim, fyi!!!! Some very smart Justices, disagree with you! And yes, they are holding up the Constitution in this case, as they should.

the rest of the ruling is here:
http://www.esquilax.com/flag/texasvjohnson.html

it is interesting, imo!

Yes, it is interesting, but it's an interpretation that they made. It is not a right no matter how hard you try to push this. You're misunderstanding the legal process and how they interpret things to make their rulings. But that doesn't change the fact that there is no such right written into the US Constitution.

[82Marine89]

We have the right to say what we please, not destroy items by arson.

Didn't you defend this on page 1? :poke:

[JohnDoe]

Yea well Liberals are Dispicable human beings! WIth the exception of you of course! :salute: Although I am still tripping on the fact that your a woman.....:laugh2:




Ahhhhhhhhhh, then my devious and womanly plan worked well, then? ;)


:dance:


hahahahaha!

[red states rule]

Ahhhhhhhhhh, then my deviously and womanly plan worked well, then? ;)


:dance:


hahahahaha!

She is one of the few libs you can have a nice debate with. Sorry to se such a nice person has been sucked into the dark side :lol:

[JohnDoe]

Yes, it is interesting, but it's an interpretation that they made. It is not a right no matter how hard you try to push this. You're misunderstanding the legal process and how they interpret things to make their rulings. But that doesn't change the fact that there is no such right written into the US Constitution.


This is not the ONLY case where the SC made decisions on flag burning Jim.

A google should give them all to you. Anyway, this has been so SOLIDLY DECIDED, so many times that the movement to make a Constitutional Amendment, so that burning the Flag can be made illegal, has gotten a great deal of support.

I even think the Republicans in the last Congress, in the House, might have brought it up for consideration or a vote....

So even Congress now believes that it is CONSTITUTIONAL....burning the Flag and it would take an amendment to the Constitution to allow any kind of Law on the Books, making flag burning illegal.

[red states rule]

This is not the ONLY case where the SC made decisions on flag burning Jim.

A google should give them all to you. Anyway, this has been so SOLIDLY DECIDED, so many times that the movement to make a Constitutional Amendment, so that burning the Flag can be made illegal, has gotten a great deal of support.

I even think the Republicans in the last Congress, in the House, might have brought it up for consideration or a vote....

So even Congress now believes that it is CONSTITUTIONAL....burning the Flag and it would take an amendment to the Constitution to allow any kind of Law on the Books, making flag burning illegal.

I would love to know why the hell liberals are always so angry and they feel they have to piss on their country to show that anger

[nevadamedic]

Ahhhhhhhhhh, then my devious and womanly plan worked well, then? ;)


:dance:


hahahahaha!

I am still thinking Transvestite.......:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[The ClayTaurus]

This thread is exactly what you DON'T give to an attention whore who's doing something that upsets you.

Ultimately, her avatar can be whatever Jim okays, as it's his board. If Jim is about total free speech, I can't see how he forces her to take the avatar down, sadly.

[JohnDoe]

She is one of the few libs you can have a nice debate with. Sorry to se such a nice person has been sucked into the dark side :lol:


heh! you know I could say the same thing about you too! hahahaha!

so :cheers2: my friend!

[jimnyc]

This is not the ONLY case where the SC made decisions on flag burning Jim.

A google should give them all to you. Anyway, this has been so SOLIDLY DECIDED, so many times that the movement to make a Constitutional Amendment, so that burning the Flag can be made illegal, has gotten a great deal of support.

I even think the Republicans in the last Congress, in the House, might have brought it up for consideration or a vote....

So even Congress now believes that it is CONSTITUTIONAL....burning the Flag and it would take an amendment to the Constitution to allow any kind of Law on the Books, making flag burning illegal.

You can cite 3 thousand cases where decisions have been made. It's still not written there. Just because they want a specific amendment to outlaw it, that does not mean it is written in there now as protected. They simply want it in there to solidly make it illegal. And Congress and judges are free to interpret it as protected by the "freedom of speech", but again, it's their interpretation, and simply does not mean it is written in as a right. A judge can interpret it the direct opposite tomorrow if he wants to break precedent!

[red states rule]

Instead of burning the US flag - I wish libs would burn the flag of the Dem party.

I would not have a problem with that

The official flag of the Democrat party

[JohnDoe]

I would love to know why the hell liberals are always so angry and they feel they have to piss on their country to show that anger
It isn't Liberals it is SOME Liberals rsr!!!!

But I contend that this same sentiment is there with SOME Conservatives too!

It is quite perplexing, because on the one hand they love government while with the other hand they hate government, it is a real anigma!

[red states rule]

It isn't Liberals it is SOME Liberals rsr!!!!

But I contend that this same sentiment is there with SOME Conservatives too!

It is quite perplexing, because on the one hand they love government while with the other hand they hate government, it is a real anigma!

I do not see conservatves taking the streets burning flags, spitting on Iraq war vets, tossing red paint on the steps of government buildings, or openly hoping those who disagree with them on political issues drop dead

There is a lot of hate on your side

At the Daily Kos convention, a US military man was prevented from speaking because he disagreed witht he "panel"

Your party is running on hate - pure senseless hate

[82Marine89]

It isn't Liberals it is SOME Liberals rsr!!!!

But I contend that this same sentiment is there with SOME Conservatives too!

It is quite perplexing, because on the one hand they love government while with the other hand they hate government, it is a real anigma!

As a Conservative, I support the Constitution. I do not trust my government. :salute:

[red states rule]

As a Conservative, I support the Constitution. I do not trust my government. :salute:

I support the US Constitution and react in disbelief how libs want to shred it

[82Marine89]

I support the US Constitution and react in disbelief how libs want to shred it

So do some republicans.

[red states rule]

So do some republicans.

a few - but there are many more on the left

The Us Constitution usually gets in the way of liberal reforms

[JohnDoe]

I do not see conservatves taking the streets burning flags, spitting on Iraq war vets, tossing red paint on the steps of government buildings, or openly hoping those who disagree with them on political issues drop dead

There is a lot of hate on your side

At the Daily Kos convention, a US military man was prevented from speaking because he disagreed witht he "panel"

Your party is running on hate - pure senseless hate

They may not take to the Streets Rsr but SOME go to the funerals of brave soldiers that have been killed in Iraq and protest at these funerals.

Like Fred Phelps, from Westborough Baptist Church.

Each side has their looney toons imo....but that does not make the majority of us as looney as them.

If we had 10 different Political Parties instead of just 2, to choose from, then maybe that would be a different story...but we don't, and this forces the loonies to have to pick either Democrat or Republican.

Both sides are stuck with them imho.

[JohnDoe]

As a Conservative, I support the Constitution. I do not trust my government. :salute:

As a liberal, I support the Constitution. I do not trust my government. :salute: Now to wake up the other Kazillion Liberals and so called ;) Conservatives to this idea is where it will take no less than a Miracle!

[red states rule]

They may not take to the Streets Rsr but SOME go to the funerals of brave soldiers that have been killed in Iraq and protest at these funerals.

Like Fred Phelps, from Westborough Baptist Church.

Each side has their looney toons imo....but that does not make the majority of us as looney as them.

If we had 10 different Political Parties instead of just 2, to choose from, then maybe that would be a different story...but we don't, and this forces the loonies to have to pick either Democrat or Republican.

Both sides are stuck with them imho.


I admit the right have their nuts, but if you look close - the left is over run with them

The hate and rage is seen everyday. You can see it on TV, hear it on the radiom, and read it on the internet

Right now, the biggest hate raly is at the Daily Kos meeting

[nevadamedic]

As a liberal, I support the Constitution. I do not trust my government. :salute: Now to wake up the other Kazillion Liberals and so called ;) Conservatives to this idea is where it will take no less than a Miracle!

I bet you would trust your Government if Speaker Pelosi, Senator Reid, Senator Clinton, Senator Osama, Senator Kennedy and Senator Webb were removed from office.:salute:

[nevadamedic]

They may not take to the Streets Rsr but SOME go to the funerals of brave soldiers that have been killed in Iraq and protest at these funerals.

Like Fred Phelps, from Westborough Baptist Church.

Each side has their looney toons imo....but that does not make the majority of us as looney as them.

If we had 10 different Political Parties instead of just 2, to choose from, then maybe that would be a different story...but we don't, and this forces the loonies to have to pick either Democrat or Republican.

Both sides are stuck with them imho.

Actually we have quite a few different political parties.

[red states rule]

I bet you would trust your Government if Speaker Pelosi, Senator Reid, Senator Clinton, Senator Osama, Senator Kennedy and Senator Webb were removed from office.:salute:

Libs support impeachemnt - as long as it is a Republican being impeached

Dems will always get a pass from the left for their actions

[Missileman]

I bet you would trust your Government if Speaker Pelosi, Senator Reid, Senator Clinton, Senator Osama, Senator Kennedy and Senator Webb were removed from office.:salute:

If that's the extent of your list of untrustworthy politicians, you're extremely naive.

[82Marine89]

I bet you would trust your Government if Speaker Pelosi, Senator Reid, Senator Clinton, Senator Osama, Senator Kennedy and Senator Webb were removed from office.:salute:

Add George Bush and a host of other 'republicans' to that list.

[red states rule]

If that's the extent of your list of untrustworthy politicians, you're extremely naive.

William Jefferson and Sen Ted Stevens should be on the list as well

Regardless of party, if you violate the law and the trust of the voters - you get tossed out on your ass

[82Marine89]

Libs support impeachemnt - as long as it is a Republican being impeached

Dems will always get a pass from the left for their actions

If we didn't have boots on the ground, I would wholeheartedly support the impeachment of this president for his actions, or should I say inactions, on immigration. Does that make me a liberal?

[JohnDoe]

I bet you would trust your Government if Speaker Pelosi, Senator Reid, Senator Clinton, Senator Osama, Senator Kennedy and Senator Webb were removed from office.:salute:no, even then...even if I was pleased with everything that everyone was doing from the administration on down, I don't think that they should be trusted in full, I believe there should always be some true checks and balances, because "the love of money, is the root of all Evil" and Heaven knows, they all seem to love it...and they deal with ALOT of it, so ....sadly, corruption is just waiting to happen imho.

[red states rule]

If we didn't have boots on the ground, I would wholeheartedly support the impeachment of this president for his actions, or should I say inactions, on immigration. Does that make me a liberal?

but that is not a high crime or misdemeanor

gross stupidy or political deafness - but not an impeachable offense

[red states rule]

no, even then...even if I was pleased with everything that everyone was doing from the administration on down, I don't think that they should be trusted in full, I believe there should always be some true checks and balances, because "the love of money, is the root of all Evil" and Heaven knows, they all seem to love it...and they deal with ALOT of it, so ....sadly, corruption is just waiting to happen imho.

From a liberals POV - what have the Dems accomplished besides achieve record low approval ratings?

[nevadamedic]

If that's the extent of your list of untrustworthy politicians, you're extremely naive.

No that's just the beginning of the list. It would take me to long to list all the elected Democrat's. These tend to be the worst.

[nevadamedic]

Add George Bush and a host of other 'republicans' to that list.

President Bush will never be on that list. He is a great man and a great President.

[82Marine89]

but that is not a high crime or misdemeanor

gross stupidy or political deafness - but not an impeachable offense

He took an oath to support the Constitution. The Constitution does not not require much of our government, but one of the things it does require is the defense of our borders. He has willfully refused to do so. That in my opinion is a crime and an impeachable offense.

[nevadamedic]

no, even then...even if I was pleased with everything that everyone was doing from the administration on down, I don't think that they should be trusted in full, I believe there should always be some true checks and balances, because "the love of money, is the root of all Evil" and Heaven knows, they all seem to love it...and they deal with ALOT of it, so ....sadly, corruption is just waiting to happen imho.

Yea but the Dem's love it more since they don't have any!

[82Marine89]

President Bush will never be on that list. He is a great man and a great President.

What flavor is your Kool-aid?

[red states rule]

He took an oath to support the Constitution. The Constitution does not not require much of our government, but one of the things it does require is the defense of our borders. He has willfully refused to do so. That in my opinion is a crime and an impeachable offense.

Don't get me wrong - I agree with you on the border

It is not an impeachable offense - piss poor judgement for sure

[diuretic]

Forget professional politicians for a moment.

Now, why the great, yawning gulf between "conservatives" and "liberals"?
Why the hostility and suspicion? Why the bad-mouthing?

Now remember the professional politicans for a moment.

Who gains most from that gulf between regular citizens?

[nevadamedic]

What flavor is your Kool-aid?

Just because he had a brain fart on the immigration issue is no reason to out him from office.

[dan]

Sorry, that's only your interpretation. I'm not saying there's currently a law on the books making it illegal, but THERE IS NOTHING in the constitution in reference to burning the American Flag, or it being a right. It's just not there. You may see it when you read that quote, and it may be your belief that it gives you that right, but again, IT IS NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION. Interpret away if you like, but that's all it is, an interpretation.

OK, agreed. But, going by that, there is very little direct reference to absolutely anything in the Constitution. The whole point of a document like the Constitution is that it is required to be interpreted by the people it was designed for. But, I do agree that this is, indeed, my interpretation, and I can absolutely see how one could interpret it otherwise.

[JohnDoe]

Actually we have quite a few different political parties.True, but we only have 2 Parties that can get a President elected, right now.... I should have worded my original statement better, to make that more clear.

[red states rule]

Just because he had a brain fart on the immigration issue is no reason to out him from office.

He will be gone on 1/20/09

Yet some people can't wait and allow the process to work itself out

[nevadamedic]

True, but we only have 2 Parties that can get a President elected, right now.... I should have worded my original statement better, to make that more clear.

I dunno, the Independant Party is gaining strength.

[red states rule]

True, but we only have 2 Parties that can get a President elected, right now.... I should have worded my original statement better, to make that more clear.

As long as the Dems keep going with liberals - it will be awhile before the win the WH again

[red states rule]

I dunno, the Independant Party is gaining strength.

Where? When? and with who?

[dan]

I have one question....is burning the flag free speech or no??

Dont answer with wether you agree with it or not...is it a form of free speech that our Constitution gives us?

In my opinion, yes, it is. But, at the same time, I can see where others, particularly veterans, would feel otherwise.

That said, you wouldn't catch me doing it.

Just to hijack a bit, Jackass, it's really funny to see you in a serious debate with that avatar!:laugh2: Wasn't that only for two weeks? When ya changing it, or have you had a breakthrough you want to share with the rest of the group?

[82Marine89]

Just because he had a brain fart on the immigration issue is no reason to out him from office.

Brain fart? What the fuck are you smoking? I wish I could post a montage of clips where he said these folks were doing jobs Americans won't do. That is a direct spit in my face and the face of every other hard working American. He is willfully disregarding the wishes of the majority of American people. He is trying to force amnesty down out throats and has single handedly destroyed the republican party in the process. He is not an honorable man and I regret having voted for him. Twice.

[red states rule]

Brain fart? What the fuck are you smoking? I wish I could post a montage of clips where he said these folks were doing jobs Americans won't do. That is a direct spit in my face and the face of every other hard working American. He is willfully disregarding the wishes of the majority of American people. He is trying to force amnesty down out throats and has single handedly destroyed the republican party in the process. He is not an honorable man and I regret having voted for him. Twice.

Dems have done a piss poor job on illegals as well. They stole a vote in House to give them more of out tax money

[JohnDoe]

I am still thinking Transvestite.......:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:



Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!

:boobies::boobies::boobies:

I am WOMAN!


:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[82Marine89]

Dems have done a piss poor job on illegals as well. They stole a vote in House to give them more of out tax money

That's nice, but this is about GWB and impeachment. Quit trying to deflect the blame.

[red states rule]

That's nice, but this is about GWB and impeachment. Quit trying to deflect the blame.

They all take the same oath - if you want Pres Bush impeached, then everyone who voted for the bill should be impeached as well

But then, iot is NOT an impeachable offense anyway

[82Marine89]

They all take the same oath - if you want Pres Bush impeached, then everyone who voted for the bill should be impeached as well

But then, iot is NOT an impeachable offense anyway

GWB is the ring leader on this. He attempted to get this passed behind the backs of the American people. He knew he was wrong and he tried to hide it.

(I have to leave now. I will be back to argue this later. ~Mick)

[red states rule]

GWB is the ring leader on this. He attempted to get this passed behind the backs of the American people. He knew he was wrong and he tried to hide it.

(I have to leave now. I will be back to argue this later. ~Mick)

Behind our backs - with talk radio all over the story?

[Angel Heart]

"It's just a damn picture?" That's what you think of burning an American flag? Fuck you!

And since when do you have the right not to be offended? I worry that you have idealistic views of the flag.

[dan]

Is this thread about LN's pic? Or, even, Pale's outrage over said pic? Or are we just going to go over how evil liberals are for 20 pages again?

Oh, wait, RSR is involved, that answers that.:dance:

Also, how is it that the liberals are the horrible ones, yet in this thread, conservatives are the ones throwing around physical threats (ostensibly toward a high school girl, nice!) and dissolving a personal-opinion thread into another broad smear against the left? Please note, this is not meant toward every conservative in the thread, most of you guys (and gals!) know what you're doing, know how to keep it civil and thoughtful.

[red states rule]

Is this thread about LN's pic? Or, even, Pale's outrage over said pic? Or are we just going to go over how evil liberals are for 20 pages again?

Oh, wait, RSR is involved, that answers that.:dance:

Also, how is it that the liberals are the horrible ones, yet in this thread, conservatives are the ones throwing around physical threats (ostensibly toward a high school girl, nice!) and dissolving a personal-opinion thread into another broad smear against the left? Please note, this is not meant toward every conservative in the thread, most of you guys (and gals!) know what you're doing, know how to keep it civil and thoughtful.

I have pointed out the failings of Republicans as well. As far as libs whining, well you are her,e and you are all we need to make that point

[JohnDoe]

Forget professional politicians for a moment.

Now, why the great, yawning gulf between "conservatives" and "liberals"?
Why the hostility and suspicion? Why the bad-mouthing?

Now remember the professional politicans for a moment.

Who gains most from that gulf between regular citizens?

No question, the Politicians gain.

The problem with disregarding all that they say and hype, is that it can turn in to pure apathy, no involvement at all.

So, I am just aware of the predicament and how both sides will hype their view of the issue, and I usually read what both sides think or say about it, and go from there....half blinded by not seeing the underlying gains that the politicians know about but knowing more than I would if I just listened to what my party alone, wanted me to hear.

[Gunny]

good morning rsr,

I am a Liberal... though conservative on some issues, my mom and dad who served 22 years in the USAF are Liberals, my sister is a Liberal, my grandparents on my Father's side were Liberals, my church going neighbors are Liberal, and a friend of mine serving in Iraq right now is a LIBERAL.....

so when people like Pale, continually say that Liberals SUCK in their Avatars, or in their posts, they are saying personally, that I SUCK and my family SUCKS and that my neighbors SUCK etc....
It is a blatent, general insult and a meant to be demeaning statement about his fellow Americans....

Now you can like this and think it's grand, but to me, an avatar that flashes LIBERALS SUCK, is vulgar, insulting, and unamerican. And maybe I am being a little sensitive, I'll grant all of you that....and maybe I grew up differently and was taught differently by my "Liberal" parents , (that suck as people... according to Pale), that there is no place for personal insults in a good argument against or for a cause.

All of my relatives on my husband's side are Conservatives, Church going, Home schooling children, conservatives. I have been married 17 years and they never, ever would insult me just because I am a Democrat and I would Never, Ever even think of insulting them, because they are Republicans...they are good, loving people....and they know that I am too, and that my family is too.

So, like I said, it could be that I am being a little sensitive here, maybe because I am a female, maybe cuz I wouldn't hurt a fly without feeling some sort of remorse.... I really am a wimp, I admit it....feel sorry for everyone that's in bad shape kind of person....a liberal! :D lol

Hell, I better go rep him then.:laugh2:

[red states rule]

No question, the Politicians gain.

The problem with disregarding all that they say and hype, is that it can turn in to pure apathy, no involvement at all.

So, I am just aware of the predicament and how both sides will hype their view of the issue, and I usually read what both sides think or say about it, and go from there....half blinded by not seeing the underlying gains that the politicians know about but knowing more than I would if I just listened to what my party alone, wanted me to hear.

Dems are the ones wanting to gain from the divide. They are wanting to spend more money on illegals - and they stole a vote in the House to make it so

[Gunny]

Thanks

I do not want anyone to make any false statments about you

You are a liberal - but you are not a moonbat liberal. There is a difference

Abbey's a liberal?

:lmao:

[red states rule]

Abbey's a liberal?

:lmao:

Having trouble reading the later posts?

I said I was in error - or did you leave that part out?

[JohnDoe]

Hell, I better go rep him then.:laugh2:There's still hope in my book, that one day, you and I will see eye to eye!

I am not holding my breath though, so don't be looking for me to keel over anytime soon!!!

:laugh2:

[nevadamedic]

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!

:boobies::boobies::boobies:

I am WOMAN!


:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

You could have just taken Hormoines to get those boobies! :laugh2: You know the top half woman the bottom half man..........:laugh2:

[red states rule]

You could have just taken Hormoines to get those boobies! :laugh2: You know the top half woman the bottom half man..........:laugh2:

She is a very nice gal. We seldom agree, and she does not answer some questions I ask her, but she is a nice person to talk to

[nevadamedic]

She is a very nice gal. We seldom agree, and she does not answer some questions I ask her, but she is a nice person to talk to

I'm not saying she isn't im just saying she has a twig and doodle berries and boobies.

[Gunny]

The First Amendment.

We have the right to say what we please...without government interference. This is FOR a good reason.

The Supreme Court (i think it made it to the SC?) ruled that burning a flag is basically voicing an opinion. And it is voicing an opinion, just as it was when it was burned by those that later became Revolutionists. They were saying, UP YOURS, to additional taxes that the Brits were forcing upon them.

Burning the Flag is a sign of displeasure, in what your representative government is doing, in your name, without your consent imo. The person burning it is voicing their opinion about their government, and the first amendment is there specifically to protect us from the government's over reach.

Well...that's the best that I can do in explaining how I view it.

The way I view it is this ... if you hate this nation bad enough to symbolically destroy it ... get the Hell out.

Anyone burning the symbol of this Nation -- a symbol countless thousands along with myself were willing to die to defend -- gets stopped, then and there, period.

All of this bullshit "it doesn't specifically say I can't; therefore, it means I can" is just trying to blow smoke up everyone's asses.

[JohnDoe]

Dems are the ones wanting to gain from the divide. They are wanting to spend more money on illegals - and they stole a vote in the House to make it so


Now granted, I don't know all the facts on this, but it SURE LOOKED LIKE, that is what they did.... and if this is what they did, I will forever hold it against them.

I saw this happen with the Republican Congress on the Medicare Pill bill whose vote was held opened for near 3 hours until they could bribe other congressmen to change their vote to yea from nay, to get it to pass, at 3 am in the morning.... I have never been so pissed in my life, over any political action, as much as this action with the Republican Congress, and now it appears the Democratics just did the same, only closing the vote at 15 minutes, not allowing all to vote or reconsider their vote.....!!! Grrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!

It is disheartening to me, to say the least, rsr!

[red states rule]

I'm not saying she isn't im just saying she has a twig and doodle berries and boobies.



She is a great looking girl

[Gunny]

There's still hope in my book, that one day, you and I will see eye to eye!

I am not holding my breath though, so don't be looking for me to keel over anytime soon!!!

:laugh2:

It won't be on this issue. I'll hold Pale's hat while he kicks some ass, IF I don't decide to help. An expensive hat is too good to waste on getting some bottom-feeder's blood on it.

[nevadamedic]

She is a great looking girl

Doesn't mean she doesn't have a willis and doodle berries.:laugh2:

[nevadamedic]

It won't be on this issue. I'll hold Pale's hat while he kicks some ass, IF I don't decide to help. An expensive hat is too good to waste on getting some bottom-feeder's blood on it.

I really doubt Pale would hit a girl..............

[red states rule]

Doesn't mean she doesn't have a willis and doodle berries.:laugh2:

I do not thinl so

[nevadamedic]

I do not thinl so

How do you know? :poke:

[red states rule]

How do you know? :poke:

Common sense and logic

[Gunny]

Having trouble reading the later posts?

I said I was in error - or did you leave that part out?

I saw it after I posted. You want a gold star stamped on your fucking forehead, or what?

[red states rule]

I saw it after I posted. You want a gold star stamped on your fucking forehead, or what?

Just pointing out how you jumped before you knew the facts

Nothing new for you

[Mr. P]

No, flag burning is not spelled out in the Constitution. Many things are not, but this covers it all.


Amendment 9 - Construction of Constitution. Ratified 12/15/1791.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

In other words, if it ain't addressed as a right it is a right.

JaneDoe is correct here and I agree with her.

[Gunny]

I really doubt Pale would hit a girl..............

Nobody said anything about hitting any specific person. That could be (mis)construed as a threat.

I wouldn't hit a girl myself .... but I know some women who have ZERO qualms about it.

[Gunny]

Just pointing out how you jumped before you knew the facts

Nothing new for you


Most people respond to posts as they get to them, dumbass. I realize you don't bother and just post "Dems suck because ______" ensuring everyone knows you are completely incapable of putting words together to form a sentence and impart any real knowledge.

Feel free to go back to thumping pee-pee's and giggling like a little bitch with your boyfriend and don't concern yourself with what I'm doing.

[JohnDoe]

The way I view it is this ... if you hate this nation bad enough to symbolically destroy it ... get the Hell out.

Anyone burning the symbol of this Nation -- a symbol countless thousands along with myself were willing to die to defend -- gets stopped, then and there, period.

All of this bullshit "it doesn't specifically say I can't; therefore, it means I can" is just trying to blow smoke up everyone's asses.
The Supreme court, already ruled, many times over, that Burning an American Flag, is not harmful to anyone in our Nation...but NOT allowing them to burn it, would hurt everyone in our Nation, because it would violate, the First Amendment.

It is you, that is trying to blow smoke I'm afraid....tell me, does the First Amendment spell out the specifics for any of our protections and cover each and every scenario that it could EVER COVER?

The answer is resoundingly NO, and there is no way that you can argue otherwise.

The first amendment SPECIFICALLY gives us, the citizen or the legal resident, THE RIGHT to be protected from the government when it involves our personal opinions, and when it involves our religious beliefs or when it involves the Press.... the first amendment prohibits the government from censoring this kind of speech in the Public Square, the public arena, not on private grounds, but on Public ground.

Burning the flag is an expression of disgust with ones government. This is what it is known for and this is why some people, very few people, are doing such....to express disgust with their govt.

This is specifically protected speech, by our first amendment.

So, I guess, I once again, disagree with you...and so does the majority of the SC, time and time again.

I do agree with you that it is a very offensive act to many of us, but protected under the 1st, none the less, imo.

[Gunny]

The Supreme court, already ruled, many times over, that Burning an American Flag, is not harmful to anyone in our Nation...but NOT allowing them to burn it, would hurt everyone in our Nation, because it would violate, the First Amendment.

It is you, that is trying to blow smoke I'm afraid....tell me, does the First Amendment spell out the specifics for any of our protections and cover each and every scenario that it could EVER COVER?

The answer is resoundingly NO, and there is no way that you can argue otherwise.

The first amendment SPECIFICALLY gives us, the citizen or the legal resident, THE RIGHT to be protected from the government when it involves our personal opinions, and when it involves our religious beliefs or when it involves the Press.... the first amendment prohibits the government from censoring this kind of speech in the Public Square, the public arena, not on private grounds, but on Public ground.

Burning the flag is an expression of disgust with ones government. This is what it is known for and this is why some people, very few people, are doing such....to express disgust with their govt.

This is specifically protected speech, by our first amendment.

So, I guess, I once again, disagree with you...and so does the majority of the SC, time and time again.

I do agree with you that it is a very offensive act to many of us, but protected under the 1st, none the less, imo.

The Constitution was never meant to be a suicide pact. When dishonest literalism/puposeful misinterpretation is used to make it such, then it's time to hoist the bullshit flag.

[red states rule]

Most people respond to posts as they get to them, dumbass. I realize you don't bother and just post "Dems suck because ______" ensuring everyone knows you are completely incapable of putting words together to form a sentence and impart any real knowledge.

Feel free to go back to thumping pee-pee's and giggling like a little bitch with your boyfriend and don't concern yourself with what I'm doing.

I see you are still a prick - as I said, nothing has changed

[nevadamedic]

Nobody said anything about hitting any specific person. That could be (mis)construed as a threat.

I wouldn't hit a girl myself .... but I know some women who have ZERO qualms about it.

I wasn't questioning that you would, I know you have more respect for women then that and are more of a man then that.

IMO a woman should NEVER be hit no matter what they do. If they get violent you can restrain them, but you can do that without hurting them. That is the one thing that sets me off more then anything someone hurting a woman in anyway.

[Gunny]

I see you are still a prick - as I said, nothing has changed

Wow. I'm a prick. Now THERE is something I've never heard before.:rolleyes:

[red states rule]

Wow. I'm a prick. Now THERE is something I've never heard before.:rolleyes:

Gien your attitude, arrogance, and double standards you should be use to it by now

Jumping in and bellowing before you know all the facts - nothing new

[nevadamedic]

I see you are still a prick - as I said, nothing has changed

Actually I think Gunny takes pride in being a prick. :laugh2: So I doubt that was an insult.

[red states rule]

Actually I think Gunny takes pride in being a prick. :laugh2: So I doubt that was an insult.

well at least he does one thing well

[JohnDoe]

The Constitution was never meant to be a suicide pact. When dishonest literalism/puposeful misinterpretation is used to make it such, then it's time to hoist the bullshit flag. It truely is an expression of disgust with ones gvt.

The later to be Revolutionists burned their Flag to show the Brits that they were sick of the new taxes they kept adding on to them.

This was an expression, this was speech with no words, but with clear meaning, by these soon to be Revolutionsits, Gunny?

Only if you can deny that these men were not trying to make a statement by burning their British flag, can you deny that burning a flag today is not making a statement.

And I do not think you can honestly do this, with any kind of merit....I just really don't think this is possible.

Regardless of my dislike, for people doing such, I can not deny it's meaning and that it is clearly done to make a statement and not to physically harm anyone....thus, it is legal and protected, by the first amendment, however offending it may be.

And you have the first amendment right to speak out against it, as long as you are not harming another physically, or libel in anyway...

[red states rule]

It truely is an expression of disgust with ones gvt.

The later to be Revolutionists burned their Flag to show the Brits that they were sick of the new taxes they kept adding on to them.

This was an expression, this was speech with no words, but with clear meaning, by these soon to be Revolutionsits, Gunny?

Only if you can deny that these men were not trying to make a statement by burning their British flag, can you deny that burning a flag today is not making a statement.

And I do not think you can honestly do this, with any kind of merit....I just really don't think this is possible.

Regardless of my dislike, for people doing such, I can not deny it's meaning and that it is clearly done to make a statement and not to physically harm anyone....thus, it is legal and protected, by the first amendment, however offending it may be.

And you have the first amendment right to speak out against it, as long as you are not harming another physically, or libel in anyway...

Funny how libs say they are out to protect the first amendment, but the libs want to silence conservative talk radio, deny a US soldier to speak at the Daily Kos panel, and want to take Fox news off the air

Yet, the left thinks burning a US flag is an act of free speech

[bluestatesrule]

I think it is actually some conservatives that need to stop and think. Conservatives, Liberals, and Moderates have been around since the formation of this country....have been instrumental in sustaining this country...and will be equally important in deciding what the important stakes for this country lie in the future. All three viewpoints are valid. There are a lot of things that some conservatives say that I disagree with....but as an American...I will proudly defend his or her right to say so.

[nevadamedic]

I think it is actually some conservatives that need to stop and think. Conservatives, Liberals, and Moderates have been around since the formation of this country....have been instrumental in sustaining this country...and will be equally important in deciding what the important stakes for this country lie in the future. All three viewpoints are valid. There are a lot of things that some conservatives say that I disagree with....but as an American...I will proudly defend his or her right to say so.

I really wish I didn't tell RSR that I wouldn't negative rep you.............

[red states rule]

I think it is actually some conservatives that need to stop and think. Conservatives, Liberals, and Moderates have been around since the formation of this country....have been instrumental in sustaining this country...and will be equally important in deciding what the important stakes for this country lie in the future. All three viewpoints are valid. There are a lot of things that some conservatives say that I disagree with....but as an American...I will proudly defend his or her right to say so.

Well look who the hell decided to join the discussion

Pardon me while I fucking choke!!!!!!!!

Libs were not around when the country was founded. If they were, the Mayflower would have turned around the first time it rained

[red states rule]

I really wish I didn't tell RSR that I wouldn't negative rep you.............

If Howie Dean would have been around during the ride of Paul Revere - he would have yelled for him to shut up, he was trying to sleep

[diuretic]

Well look who the hell decided to join the discussion

Pardon me while I fucking choke!!!!!!!!

Libs were not around when the country was founded. If they were, the Mayflower would have turned around the first time it rained

They were only religious refugees weren't they? Didn't your country only become you country when you kicked the Brits out? And if that's so then your country was founded on liberal principles. :laugh2:

[red states rule]

They were only religious refugees weren't they? Didn't your country only become you country when you kicked the Brits out? And if that's so then your country was founded on liberal principles. :laugh2:

France was founded founded on liberal principles - we all know how they are doing :poke:

[diuretic]

France was founded founded on liberal principles - we all know how they are doing :poke:

Tut RSR, what have the French done to deserve that opprobrium? Their pissy little riots were nothing compared to ones in recent years in the States. In comparison France is quite orderly :coffee:

[red states rule]

Tut RSR, what have the French done to deserve that opprobrium? Their pissy little riots were nothing compared to ones in recent years in the States. In comparison France is quite orderly :coffee:

The economy in France stinks. Unempoyment, inflation, high taxes, and budget busting handouts is killing them

The voters are waking up and they went with a conservtaive who is going to get away from liberalism and go to common sense conservatism

[dan]

I really wish I didn't tell RSR that I wouldn't negative rep you.............

His was likely the most level-headed post in the thread, why would you neg rep him?

[red states rule]

His was likely the most level-headed post in the thread, why would you neg rep him?

It was the most pointy head post on the thread

[OCA]

President Bush will never be on that list. He is a great man and a great President.

Sweet Jesus!

[red states rule]

Sweet Jesus!

Please OCA

Do not mix Religion with politics

[Pale Rider]

I'm with Abbey and Nevada and others, it's a flag, an inanimate object, I support the Constitutional right to burn it as an expression of the party burning it, IF IT IS THEIR FLAG, that they purchased.

I wonder if you were part of the American Revolution, what side you would have been on...the side of the Brits, who saw the burning of the british flag as treason, or the side of the American Revolutionists?

Making a tizzy fit over an avatar of a flag burning, and insisting that your fellow Americans side with YOU on this very "American-free speech issue", would be UNAMERICAN imho, and a mistake....

And honestly Pale, I can understand how it upsets you...but I do not see it as unamerican.

And in truth, I love that fact that you can come on here and bitch about it...and even though personally insulting to me, your avatar IS A FORM of FREE SPEECH, and I support your freedom to post such.

My post above....well....it was just me being whiney... sorry! :D

OK... I guess I'll have to clarify the purpose of this AGAIN... the issue at hand is *NOT* whether one has the right to burn the flag or not, the issue is *DO YOU LIKE IT?*

This is America. That's our flag. Now... do you like to see it burned by some piece of shit liberal? Or do you NOT? That's the focus of this thread. NOT WHETHER IT'S LEGAL OR NOT!

[Gunny]

Gien your attitude, arrogance, and double standards you should be use to it by now

Jumping in and bellowing before you know all the facts - nothing new

I think it's my lack of double-standards that is what REALLY annoys you, "Mr I'm a Hard-line Conservative but Vote for Rudy."

Laughing my ass off at your being the rube you are is hardly bellowing. And as far as jumping in without any facts ... WHO called Abbey a liberal?

Wasn't moi.

[LiberalNation]

Oh look another thread with my name on it.

[Gunny]

well at least he does one thing well

Make that two. Although I take little pride in picking on retards, it appears I excel at slapping your dumb ass around at will.

[diuretic]

The economy in France stinks. Unempoyment, inflation, high taxes, and budget busting handouts is killing them

The voters are waking up and they went with a conservtaive who is going to get away from liberalism and go to common sense conservatism

Sarkozy will go too far to the right at his peril. The French seem to want the economy to work for them, not the other way around and if they think Sarkozy will make them slaves to it they will turn on him. Yes they do need a bit of tightening and unemployment needs to be sorted out but they won't chuck the baby out with the bathwater.

[Gunny]

It truely is an expression of disgust with ones gvt.

The later to be Revolutionists burned their Flag to show the Brits that they were sick of the new taxes they kept adding on to them.

This was an expression, this was speech with no words, but with clear meaning, by these soon to be Revolutionsits, Gunny?

Only if you can deny that these men were not trying to make a statement by burning their British flag, can you deny that burning a flag today is not making a statement.

And I do not think you can honestly do this, with any kind of merit....I just really don't think this is possible.

Regardless of my dislike, for people doing such, I can not deny it's meaning and that it is clearly done to make a statement and not to physically harm anyone....thus, it is legal and protected, by the first amendment, however offending it may be.

And you have the first amendment right to speak out against it, as long as you are not harming another physically, or libel in anyway...

The flag represents the Nation, not the government.

[Pale Rider]

No, you know how I feel about burning an American Flag. I hate it and if I saw anyone burning a Flag I would stop them by force if I had to. I think anyone who burns an American Flag needs to get the everloving shit kicked out of them. The only time to EVER burn an American Flag is to retire it.

I have talked with LN and she doesn't support burning a flag, she is doing it because she knows it gets to you. Personally I think Jackass is right, this thread just guaranteed another month of her Avatar.

I not only hate her avatar, but every other veteran AND yourself do as well. So if she leaves it up there, she's guaranteeing herself that most people here will have a deep, lasting, hate for her.

That makes ME the winner.

[Pale Rider]

Oh look another thread with my name on it.

Yeah, that's right. Have you gone all the way through it and added up how many people hate your stinking guts yet?

[Pale Rider]

Sarkozy will go too far to the right at his peril. The French seem to want the economy to work for them, not the other way around and if they think Sarkozy will make them slaves to it they will turn on him. Yes they do need a bit of tightening and unemployment needs to be sorted out but they won't chuck the baby out with the bathwater.

Please start your own thread about foreign economies. That's not what this one is about, and I don't want it hijacked.

Thank you.

[LiberalNation]

It did take quite awile to read but there doesn't seem to be a lot of LN haters on it. Only 4 people voted in your poll so far as I can see.

[Gunny]

It did take quite awile to read but there doesn't seem to be a lot of LN haters on it. Only 4 people voted in your poll so far as I can see.

Clarification: I don't hate you. That would require WAY too much thought and emotion.

I DO however despise your sensationalist, "I-Me", attention-whoring attitude, and the fact that you don't give a damn what damage is done to this nation so long as you can take a shot at the administration, military, or the very symbol of what allows you to open your mouth to begin with.

[nevadamedic]

OK... I guess I'll have to clarify the purpose of this AGAIN... the issue at hand is *NOT* whether one has the right to burn the flag or not, the issue is *DO YOU LIKE IT?*

This is America. That's our flag. Now... do you like to see it burned by some piece of shit liberal? Or do you NOT? That's the focus of this thread. NOT WHETHER IT'S LEGAL OR NOT!

What about by some piece of shit Illegal? Those Wet Back Mexicans do it at every protest.

[nevadamedic]

Oh look another thread with my name on it.

You need to learn to let sleeping dogs lie. You and Pale fight like a married couple. :laugh2:

[nevadamedic]

I not only hate her avatar, but every other veteran AND yourself do as well. So if she leaves it up there, she's gauranteeing herself that most people here will have a deep, lasting, hate for her.

That makes ME the winner.

Yes I do hate her Avatar, I despise it in fact, but I just don't see the need to attack her on it constantly. Everytime you attack her she will kepp that Avatar up that much longer and we all have to sit here and see it then. Can't you just put her on ignore until she changes her Avatar? I want it gone as soon as ppossible but as long as people keep provoking her and giving her the attention she wants she wont change it.

[nevadamedic]

Clarification: I don't hate you. That would require WAY too much thought and emotion.

I DO however despise your sensationalist, "I-Me", attention-whoring attitude, and the fact that you don't give a damn what damage is done to this nation so long as you can take a shot at the administration, military, or the very symbol of what allows you to open your mouth to begin with.

She is just a 17 year old kid. She has no clue. I know it was a while ago back in the dark ages but remember when you were that age? Im sure you rebelled in some way to get attention, that's all she is doing. That's all she really has ever done on her Avatar's as far as I can tell. She knows what will piss people off and she does it. Remember when she had the pride flag up? She knows the majority of the users here despise gay people, so she put it up, same with the Anarchy, now this one.

[nevadamedic]

It did take quite awile to read but there doesn't seem to be a lot of LN haters on it. Only 4 people voted in your poll so far as I can see.

You know I really like you, but sometimes I wish I could reach through the computer screen and ring your little neck. We had the topic almost changed on here and you come in and stir PR up. I wish you wouldn't do that. Noone here likes to see him mad as he starts going apeshit on the threads. I don't know why you get satisfaction from that.

[Gunny]

She is just a 17 year old kid. She has no clue. I know it was a while ago back in the dark ages but remember when you were that age? Im sure you rebelled in some way to get attention, that's all she is doing. That's all she really has ever done on her Avatar's as far as I can tell. She knows what will piss people off and she does it. Remember when she had the pride flag up? She knows the majority of the users here despise gay people, so she put it up, same with the Anarchy, now this one.

Yeah ... I had long hair, wore bell-bottom jeans and smoked dope.

I did NOT burn the symbol of this Nation to get attention.

[nevadamedic]

Yeah ... I had long hair, wore bell-bottom jeans and smoked dope.

I did NOT burn the symbol of this Nation to get attention.

I never said you did. Everyone rebels in their own way, but EVERYONE rebels at that age in one way or another for attention and anyone who says they didn't is a damn liar. That's all she is doing. She doesn't understand what it really means etc. She has been brainwashed by either her Liberal family or friends and it's sad. Any Liberal that passes their Liberal beliefs down to their kids should be charged with Child Abuse.

[nevadamedic]

Yeah ... I had long hair, wore bell-bottom jeans and smoked dope.

I did NOT burn the symbol of this Nation to get attention.

:laugh2: Wait a munute you with long hair and bellbottoms? :laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[jackass]

Yes, it is interesting, but it's an interpretation that they made. It is not a right no matter how hard you try to push this. You're misunderstanding the legal process and how they interpret things to make their rulings. But that doesn't change the fact that there is no such right written into the US Constitution.

Jim, if the SC rules that this is a right of our freedom of speech, then isnt it? I dont think anyone is saying that it says in the Constitution that we can, just that it is freedom of speech, something that is protected by the Constitution.

[diuretic]

Please start your own thread about foreign economies. That's not what this one is about, and I don't want it hijacked.

Thank you.

No worries.

LN should be allowed to have any avatar she wishes, well, until the owner says she can't have a particular avatar at least.

[jackass]

In my opinion, yes, it is. But, at the same time, I can see where others, particularly veterans, would feel otherwise.

That said, you wouldn't catch me doing it.

Just to hijack a bit, Jackass, it's really funny to see you in a serious debate with that avatar!:laugh2: Wasn't that only for two weeks? When ya changing it, or have you had a breakthrough you want to share with the rest of the group?

Mine too. Not that I agree with it though.

Yeah it was just for two weeks. I started another thread for a new avatar but that thread didnt go as planned!! :laugh2:

[jackass]

Is this thread about LN's pic? Or, even, Pale's outrage over said pic? Or are we just going to go over how evil liberals are for 20 pages again?



Sorry Dan...I have to spread some rep around.

[OCA]

What about by some piece of shit Illegal? Those Wet Back Mexicans do it at every protest.

You are a fucking racist piece of shit, illegals are better than you.

You are a fucking lib.

[jackass]

OK... I guess I'll have to clarify the purpose of this AGAIN... the issue at hand is *NOT* whether one has the right to burn the flag or not, the issue is *DO YOU LIKE IT?*

This is America. That's our flag. Now... do you like to see it burned by some piece of shit liberal? Or do you NOT? That's the focus of this thread. NOT WHETHER IT'S LEGAL OR NOT!

Well see thats a whole different story there Pale! Although I defend that it is a right to do it....I would be the shit out of someone that I say doing it. Consider it my own little right! :D

[OCA]

She is just a 17 year old kid. She has no clue. I know it was a while ago back in the dark ages but remember when you were that age? Im sure you rebelled in some way to get attention, that's all she is doing. That's all she really has ever done on her Avatar's as far as I can tell. She knows what will piss people off and she does it. Remember when she had the pride flag up? She knows the majority of the users here despise gay people, so she put it up, same with the Anarchy, now this one.


You stupid fucking moron, noone here despises queers, we hate the political aspirations of the queer choice movement.

I swear to Christ! You are living proof that high post count does not=knowledge.

[jimnyc]

Jim, if the SC rules that this is a right of our freedom of speech, then isnt it? I dont think anyone is saying that it says in the Constitution that we can, just that it is freedom of speech, something that is protected by the Constitution.

No, that means that is what they ruled based on their interpretation on a specific case. Their are still laws on the books in many states outlawing burning the Flag. If someone were to drag it all the way to the SC in a new case, it's quite possible it could be ruled differently. That's why many want an amendment to the constitution, not to change anything at all with 1st amendment rights, but rather to "fix" the mistake that many feel was made in the 1989 decision. While freedom of speech is specifically mentioned in the 1st amendment, the majority of the country is in favor of an amendment as they consider the burning to be an "act" and not speech.

If it was a constitutional right, it would be clearly defined in the constitution, but it's not, which leaves it only as an interpretation from the courts. What the courts say, and what is written in the constitution currently, are 2 different things.

If you want to say that "currently flag burning has been upheld as legal based on the Supreme Courts decision", I would agree. But back to the original comment that "flag burning is a constitutional right" is wrong. Some will say that means the same thing but that's absolutely false. There are many things argued over the years based on the SC's rulings on things that just aren't written in the constitution. You'll find the same argument over many "privacy" issues which have been upheld by the SC over the years, but contrary to popular opinion is not a right written into the constitution.

[waterrescuedude2000]

And it offends me that someone could even put something like that up here. Wether it be meant as a joke or whatever I would really appreciate it not on there. I mean I know there is always something offensive to someone but come on I think that offends most of us.

[nevadamedic]

And it offends me that someone could even put something like that up here. Wether it be meant as a joke or whatever I would really appreciate it not on there. I mean I know there is always something offensive to someone but come on I think that offends most of us.

Then just ignore it.

[jackass]

If you want to say that "currently flag burning has been upheld as legal based on the Supreme Courts decision", I would agree. But back to the original comment that "flag burning is a constitutional right" is wrong.

Thats a bit nitpicky dont you think? For all intents and purpose it is a right since it is being upheld as such no?

[jimnyc]

Thats a bit nitpicky dont you think? For all intents and purpose it is a right since it is being upheld as such no?

Nitpicky seeing a difference between the SC and the US Constitution? Hell yeah! Surely you'll rethink that and agree. The way our nation is now is such that the SC gets nominees probably based on whomever is in power at the time an appointment is needed. It's no different than the regular Democrats versus Republicans. They will vote based on their beliefs and their interpretations. Case law and our constitution on 2 VERY different things to me. Take abortion for example, which is currently legal. Suppose that magically the conservatives somehow get 8 judges on the SC. Don't you think the law has a better chance of possibly being overturned rather than if it were a democrat lead SC?

So again, while the SC voted to uphold the flag burners right in 1989, that is NOT in the constitution, but rather what the SC decided at the time. This is why those of us that support an amendment want it so, to reverse that faulty decision. It would in no way change the 1st amendment as it would not do anything at all to "freedom of speech". Hell, I don't take the constitution lightly, and am rarely in favor of ever having changes made to it. But I think our Flag has earned the right to have legal protection.

[OCA]

Thats a bit nitpicky dont you think? For all intents and purpose it is a right since it is being upheld as such no?

That decision was handed down when the court was left leaning, be interesting to see it revisited now.

[diuretic]

I'll do a bit of nitpicking myself. It's not a "faulty" decision. You may disagree with it but that doesn't make it faulty. What the decision did do was uphold the First Amendment restraint on the government's ability to restrict freedom of expression. Do you really want your government to tell you what "rights" it will afford you to freely express yourself?

[jimnyc]

I'll do a bit of nitpicking myself. It's not a "faulty" decision. You may disagree with it but that doesn't make it faulty. What the decision did do was uphold the First Amendment restraint on the government's ability to restrict freedom of expression. Do you really want your government to tell you what "rights" it will afford you to freely express yourself?

There is no "freedom of expression", but there is "freedom of speech", and I don't see an "act" as being speech. Nor do the official polls that show approximately 80% of the nation in agreeing on an amendment.

[OCA]

I'll do a bit of nitpicking myself. It's not a "faulty" decision. You may disagree with it but that doesn't make it faulty. What the decision did do was uphold the First Amendment restraint on the government's ability to restrict freedom of expression. Do you really want your government to tell you what "rights" it will afford you to freely express yourself?

The first amendment is not a free for all, it should have limits and parameters.

[jimnyc]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Please show me where freedom of expression is covered. I think WAY too many people misinterpret what they read about "freedom of expression" as it solely discusses it in respect to religion.

[Pale Rider]

Yes I do hate her Avatar, I despise it in fact, but I just don't see the need to attack her on it constantly. Everytime you attack her she will kepp that Avatar up that much longer and we all have to sit here and see it then. Can't you just put her on ignore until she changes her Avatar? I want it gone as soon as ppossible but as long as people keep provoking her and giving her the attention she wants she wont change it.

Listen nm... I only want to tell you this once... "do NOT blame that FUCKING AVATAR on ME!!!" That is SOLELY the RESPONSIBILITY of the PERSON THAT PUT IT UP! Got it?

You want me to start blaming YOU for OCA having a gyro avatar? No. It's got nothing to do with you. He put it there. It's the same thing with LN. "SHE" put that AMERICA HATING symbol up there... I DIDN'T!

YOU BLAME HER... NOT ME!

Frankly, I'm getting sick of you defending her, just like the rest of the liberals here. You don't see us TRUE conservatives or veterans defending her actions. Get with it man. You're trying my patience.

[diuretic]

There is no "freedom of expression", but there is "freedom of speech", and I don't see an "act" as being speech. Nor do the official polls that show approximately 80% of the nation in agreeing on an amendment.

"Speech" is "action".

And as for 80% - so what? The preponderance of opinion is merely counting heads, it has nothing to do with the rectitude of the argument. So a majority wants to take the vote from blacks. Does that make it right? No, you have to look to the issue itself and not listen to the cheer squad.

[OCA]

Please show me where freedom of expression is covered. I think WAY too many people misinterpret what they read about "freedom of expression" as it solely discusses it in respect to religion.

Jimmy, people throughout the history of America have always ran to the first amendment to protect what they knew deep down was wrong, flag burning is just the latest.

You are correct though, expression really only covers religion and displays of said religion.

[OCA]

Listen nm... I only want to tell you this once... "do NOT blame that FUCKING AVATAR on ME!!!" That is SOLELY the RESPONSIBILITY of the PERSON THAT PUT IT UP! Got it?

You want me to start blaming YOU for OCA having a gyro avatar? No. It's got nothing to do with you. He put it there. It's the same thing with LN. "SHE" put that AMERICA HATING symbol up there... I DIDN'T!

YOU BLAME HER... NOT ME!

Frankly, I'm getting sick of you defending her, just like the rest of the liberals here. You don't see us TRUE conservatives or veterans defending her actions. Get with it man. You're trying my patience.


Well fuck off if you don't like the gyro!:laugh2::finger3:

[diuretic]

The first amendment is not a free for all, it should have limits and parameters.

The limits are on government, not the individual, that's the whole point of the Bill of Rights. That's the genius of your Founding Fathers.

[OCA]

Listen nm... I only want to tell you this once... "do NOT blame that FUCKING AVATAR on ME!!!" That is SOLELY the RESPONSIBILITY of the PERSON THAT PUT IT UP! Got it?

You want me to start blaming YOU for OCA having a gyro avatar? No. It's got nothing to do with you. He put it there. It's the same thing with LN. "SHE" put that AMERICA HATING symbol up there... I DIDN'T!

YOU BLAME HER... NOT ME!

Frankly, I'm getting sick of you defending her, just like the rest of the liberals here. You don't see us TRUE conservatives or veterans defending her actions. Get with it man. You're trying my patience.

Oh BTW.....I think you are beginning to figure out that NM is alot more lib than con.

[jimnyc]

"Speech" is "action".

Only if you say so! But that's your INTERPRETATION to what is actually stated in the constitution. So you don't see a difference in me voicing my opinion on the Flag burning issue and hitting someone for doing so? I'll give you a hint, one is speech and the other is action.

But AGAIN, back to the original comment that started this, there IS NOT a constitutional right to burn a Flag. There is a SC decision that currently legalizes it.

[waterrescuedude2000]

But 82 Marine, did you take oath to serve the American Flag or to defend the Constitution? The latter is my understanding....?

The Constitution is made up of very valuable words with very valuable meaning imo, while the flag has no words attached. And I do not believe the Constitution is a Living (changing) document, I believe it is what it is, no more and no less.

When we take that oath to defend our country and its citizens we lose alot of our rights that civilians can keep. So we gave up our rights as well as put our ass on the line. :salute:

[Pale Rider]

No worries.

LN should be allowed to have any avatar she wishes, well, until the owner says she can't have a particular avatar at least.

Let me ask you a question mister liberal from down under, "why do you think it is this little moron would INVITE people to HATE her?" "Why do think she chooses to OPENLY SPIT ON veterans and her COUNTRY?" "Do you believe she's just blatantly that IGNORANT, or is there something deeper there?"

[diuretic]

Only if you say so! But that's your INTERPRETATION to what is actually stated in the constitution. So you don't see a difference in me voicing my opinion on the Flag burning issue and hitting someone for doing so? I'll give you a hint, one is speech and the other is action.

But AGAIN, back to the original comment that started this, there IS NOT a constitutional right to burn a Flag. There is a SC decision that currently legalizes it.

Speech is action, as I said. Speaking out is an activity. Biffing someone is also an activity, but biffing is unlawful. So while both are actions, one is proscribed.

No, there is no constitutional right to burn a flag but I don't know if there are any constitutional rights at all. My understanding of the Bill of Rights is that it doesn't convey any rights, instead if constrains government from infringing on natural rights. And there is a SupCt decision that holds that where someone burns a flag that behaviour is protected by the free speech provisions of the First Amendment. Any legislature that tries to pass "flag-burning" legislation is going to bump up against that decision and the legislation will have to be found to be unconstitutional.

[Pale Rider]

Well see thats a whole different story there Pale! Although I defend that it is a right to do it....I would be the shit out of someone that I say doing it. Consider it my own little right! :D

That's my point entirely. I support legislation to outlaw flag burning. And I'll be the guy behind Gunny putting out a burning flag with the perps FACE saying, "hey man, save some of this for ME!"

[diuretic]

Let me ask you a question mister liberal from down under, "why do you think it is this little moron would INVITE people to HATE her?" "Why do think she chooses to OPENLY SPIT ON veterans and her COUNTRY?" "Do you believe she's just blatantly that IGNORANT, or is there something deeper there?"

Am I a mind reader? :laugh2:

[nevadamedic]

Listen nm... I only want to tell you this once... "do NOT blame that FUCKING AVATAR on ME!!!" That is SOLELY the RESPONSIBILITY of the PERSON THAT PUT IT UP! Got it?

You want me to start blaming YOU for OCA having a gyro avatar? No. It's got nothing to do with you. He put it there. It's the same thing with LN. "SHE" put that AMERICA HATING symbol up there... I DIDN'T!

YOU BLAME HER... NOT ME!

Frankly, I'm getting sick of you defending her, just like the rest of the liberals here. You don't see us TRUE conservatives or veterans defending her actions. Get with it man. You're trying my patience.

I didn't blame you for putting it there, I blamed you for giving her the attention she wants. Before you jump to conclusions I have blamed her and called her out on it, we have had a couple conversations about it, I have asked her to change it, ive begged her to change it but it is ultimatly her choice. She want's attention and she is getting it.

I will stick up for whoever I wan't and you have no right to tell me other wise. LN is my friend, I do not care about her political affiliation or what not. Just because I have friends who are Liberal does not mean I share the same views as them.

Also what other Liberal have I stuck up for? If you remember correctly I am the first one to start shit with them on here and on USMB, if you don't believe me ask Gunny or Jimmy, they have seen my Conversations on there. I will tell you this, I will stick up for my friends no matter who they are and if someone has a problem with that then tough shit they need to get over it. Just like your sick of me sticking up for my friend im sick of you telling me what to do, how to do it and if I don't agree with you im trying your patience. Infact ive noticed if anyone doesn't agree with you you go completly apeshit and go on the offensive. You have also been pretty shitty to her and that is why she keeps it up. Im not saying she doesn't deserve it, lord knows most of the time she does.

You know I like you and you know I am not taking sides, I am trying to diffuse this situation. Re-read all my posts on this thread, I have not taken either side, I have jumped her shit on this issue as well, and if I could I would reach through the monitor and ring her little neck. All's ive asked was for you to be the bigger person and walk away from this as I know you are a much better person then she is being right now.

Go ahead and get mad at me for not agreeing with you I don't care, I am not going to take sides on this issue, I like you both and I hate seing people I like and respect fight over bullshit. Once again so you understand this, I think she is in the wrong here, that Avatar is bullshit, I wan't more then anything or her to change the Avatar, ask her if you dont believe me.

[jimnyc]

No, there is no constitutional right to burn a flag

Exactly. And that was my original reply to begin with that started most of the debate. The rest is the SC and law, and interpretations.

[nevadamedic]

Let me ask you a question mister liberal from down under, "why do you think it is this little moron would INVITE people to HATE her?" "Why do think she chooses to OPENLY SPIT ON veterans and her COUNTRY?" "Do you believe she's just blatantly that IGNORANT, or is there something deeper there?"

Because it is attention. She for some reason wants attention. Maybe her mother didn't hold her enough or stopped breastfeeding to early I don't know. But she obviously doesn't care what kind of attention she get's weather it is good or bad, it is all the same. Don't jump on my ass for defending her, im just trying to explain it to you. Everyone when they were her age would do bad or stupid things for attention, that is obviously the phase she is going through right now.

[Pale Rider]

Then just ignore it.

Fuck ignore it. We need to expose the person that put it there as the America hating piece of shit they are.

Ignoring it is what a liberal would do, and nm, you've really sounded a lot more like a liberal in this thread than a conservative.

[diuretic]

Exactly. And that was my original reply to begin with that started most of the debate. The rest is the SC and law, and interpretations.

But Americans don't get their rights from the Bill of Rights, there is no grant of rights, the Bill of Rights is a set of restrictions on government.

[OCA]

Also what other Liberal have I stuck up for? If you remember correctly I am the first one to start shit with them on here and on USMB,



Are you fucking kidding us? 4 fucking years, 4 fucking years Pale and I have been hammering away at libs on both boards. You arrogant dumb motherfucker, I used to be a mod here and the fucking libs had a conspiracy going(including a former lib mod) to undermine me........and you are the king lib basher? You ever garnered that kind of hatred and attention?

YOU ARE A FUCKING GREENHORN! You are no threat to libs because they do not respect your ability to debate, you are void of subject knowledge and lacking in tactics. Do yourself a favor and just piss off.

[OCA]

Fuck ignore it. We need to expose the person that put it there as the America hating piece of shit they are.

Ignoring it is what a liberal would do, and nm, you've really sounded a lot more like a liberal in this thread than a conservative.


Damn straight! NM is weak.

[Pale Rider]

I'll do a bit of nitpicking myself. It's not a "faulty" decision. You may disagree with it but that doesn't make it faulty. What the decision did do was uphold the First Amendment restraint on the government's ability to restrict freedom of expression. Do you really want your government to tell you what "rights" it will afford you to freely express yourself?

You make think it not faulty in joey land, but here in America, we respect our flag... well, at least the majority of us do.

So no, it may not be faulty in liberal joey land, yes, it is faulty here in the land of the free.

[jimnyc]

But Americans don't get their rights from the Bill of Rights, there is no grant of rights, the Bill of Rights is a set of restrictions on government.

Then Flag burners or their defenders shouldn't state they have "a constitutional right" to do so.

[Gunny]

I didn't blame you for putting it there, I blamed you for giving her the attention she wants. Before you jump to conclusions I have blamed her and called her out on it, we have had a couple conversations about it, I have asked her to change it, ive begged her to change it but it is ultimatly her choice. She want's attention and she is getting it.

I will stick up for whoever I wan't and you have no right to tell me other wise. LN is my friend, I do not care about her political affiliation or what not. Just because I have friends who are Liberal does not mean I share the same views as them.

Also what other Liberal have I stuck up for? If you remember correctly I am the first one to start shit with them on here and on USMB, if you don't believe me ask Gunny or Jimmy, they have seen my Conversations on there. I will tell you this, I will stick up for my friends no matter who they are and if someone has a problem with that then tough shit they need to get over it. Just like your sick of me sticking up for my friend im sick of you telling me what to do, how to do it and if I don't agree with you im trying your patience. Infact ive noticed if anyone doesn't agree with you you go completly apeshit and go on the offensive. You have also been pretty shitty to her and that is why she keeps it up. Im not saying she doesn't deserve it, lord knows most of the time she does.

You know I like you and you know I am not taking sides, I am trying to diffuse this situation. Re-read all my posts on this thread, I have not taken either side, I have jumped her shit on this issue as well, and if I could I would reach through the monitor and ring her little neck. All's ive asked was for you to be the bigger person and walk away from this as I know you are a much better person then she is being right now.

Go ahead and get mad at me for not agreeing with you I don't care, I am not going to take sides on this issue, I like you both and I hate seing people I like and respect fight over bullshit. Once again so you understand this, I think she is in the wrong here, that Avatar is bullshit, I wan't more then anything or her to change the Avatar, ask her if you dont believe me.

Ask me what? Last noticed, Pale, OCA and I are the ones that start knocking lib heads.

Neither the issue nor the symbol of this Nation is bullshit. For whoever asked above, yes, we take an oath to "support and defend the Consitution of the United States." And the embodiment of the US Constitution to military personnel are the colors we fight under and for.

I spent twenty years beign willing to sacrifice every drop of blood to ensure not one geasy, dirtbag finger so much as touched that symbol of everything we are and everything we stand for and believe.

And I'll be DAMNED before I will stand by and watch it defiled.

[nevadamedic]

Fuck ignore it. We need to expose the person that put it there as the America hating piece of shit they are.

Ignoring it is what a liberal would do, and nm, you've really sounded a lot more like a liberal in this thread than a conservative.

Damnit go read my views on this subject on USMB or ask, Gunny, Manu or Jimmy they were involved in the conversation. I am totally against burning a flag, but it's not about that. LN has stated that she wouldn't burn a flag etc and that the only reason it is there is to make you mad. She was going to take it down a couple days ago until you started attacking her. I am not saying it's your fault, don't read this the wrong way. I am madder then hell at her Avatar and I am dissapointed in her for putting it up.

She has exposed herself, I just think this is getting really out of hand. It's a stupid Avatar, it's not how she feels, but were all playing into it and giving her the satisfaction.

Don't ever refer to me as a Liberal, I never have and would never come close to saying anything like that about you. LN does not hate America, quite the opposite. She volunteers a lot in her school and community. She also has some Conservative values believe it or not. She is a good person just like you are, she is just chooseing to make some bad choices.

[LiberalNation]

Free speech is a constitutional right. Is flag burning covered under free speech well that's what the SC has said in the past. Is it in the constitution no, and going strictly by that is it a constitutional right, no but it is legal and a protected act in this country by law. I'm fine with that, I've never burned a flag but not going to say someone else can't. Their action of protest harms no one. It runs contrary to an idea a lot of Americans might hold but it doesn't hurt a thing. That's what free speech/expression is about.

[Pale Rider]

"Speech" is "action".

And as for 80% - so what? The preponderance of opinion is merely counting heads, it has nothing to do with the rectitude of the argument. So a majority wants to take the vote from blacks. Does that make it right? No, you have to look to the issue itself and not listen to the cheer squad.

"Speech is action?" So... if I'm standing in front of you, and I say I'm going to beat the shit out of you, but don't do it, that's the same as doing it?"

Where the fuck did you get that fucked up logic?

[diuretic]

Then Flag burners or their defenders shouldn't state they have "a constitutional right" to do so.

It's probably easier to say that than go through an explanation of natural law and natural rights and restrictions on government and all the rest of it. But yes, you're right. They should say something like, "I am free to do this, my government can't stop me because of my natural freedom. My fellow citizens can't stop me because of my freedom to express myself in accordance with a previous constitutional interpretation by the US Supreme Court. This is one of the few countries in the world I can do this without the cops dragging me off and beating the living shit out of me."

[nevadamedic]

Ask me what? Last noticed, Pale, OCA and I are the ones that start knocking lib heads.

Neither the issue nor the symbol of this Nation is bullshit. For whoever asked above, yes, we take an oath to "support and defend the Consitution of the United States." And the embodiment of the US Constitution to military personnel are the colors we fight under and for.

I spent twenty years beign willing to sacrifice every drop of blood to ensure not one geasy, dirtbag finger so much as touched that symbol of everything we are and everything we stand for and believe.

And I'll be DAMNED before I will stand by and watch it defiled.

Jesus Christ, I feel the same way, don't you remember I came close to getting banned on USMB for what I was saying to Larkin and Maineman because they were encouraging burning the American Flag? I never said the issue is pointless. What I am trying to get across is that the more we jump her ass about her Avatar the longer she will keep it up.

[jimnyc]

It's probably easier to say that than go through an explanation of natural law and natural rights and restrictions on government and all the rest of it. But yes, you're right. They should say something like, "I am free to do this, my government can't stop me because of my natural freedom. My fellow citizens can't stop me because of my freedom to express myself in accordance with a previous constitutional interpretation by the US Supreme Court. This is one of the few countries in the world I can do this without the cops dragging me off and beating the living shit out of me."

I can agree with that. I just get tired sometimes of people treating the US Constitution as if it doesn't exist, and then turning it around and trying to use it as a defense.

Yes, the SC interpreted "freedom of speech" to give protection to those who burn the Flag. But that's they key, the SC protects them, not the constitution.

[Pale Rider]

Because it is attention. She for some reason wants attention. Maybe her mother didn't hold her enough or stopped breastfeeding to early I don't know. But she obviously doesn't care what kind of attention she get's weather it is good or bad, it is all the same. Don't jump on my ass for defending her, im just trying to explain it to you. Everyone when they were her age would do bad or stupid things for attention, that is obviously the phase she is going through right now.

You've been defending her all the way through this fucking thread nm. Why? You think she's going to let you fuck her or something? Why would defend such poor judgement and bad behavior, spitting the face of us veterans, and generally pissing off the whole board?

[nevadamedic]

Then Flag burners or their defenders shouldn't state they have "a constitutional right" to do so.

Why don't we start a campaign to our Congressmen and Senators urging them to pass leglislation making it illegal to damage, destroy and or burn The American Flag? I am sure if they get enough people pushing for it that they will consider it.:salute:

[Pale Rider]

Well fuck off if you don't like the gyro!:laugh2::finger3:

Hey brother... I have ALWAYS defended your gyro. I love the things myself, and every time I see that fucker it makes me hungry for one.

[Gunny]

Jesus Christ, I feel the same way, don't you remember I came close to getting banned on USMB for what I was saying to Larkin and Maineman because they were encouraging burning the American Flag? I never said the issue is pointless. What I am trying to get across is that the more we jump her ass about her Avatar the longer she will keep it up.

You didn't almost get banned, and the issue with the rules was communicating threats to other members, not the flag. You can make a general statement about what you would do without naming anyone specicifically and it does not violate the rules.

Long as she keeps it up and it's a issue, I'm there. I defended it for more years than she's been alive. I'm not going anywhere at this point.

[LiberalNation]

Why don't we start a campaign to our Congressmen and Senators urging them to pass leglislation making it illegal to damage, destroy and or burn The American Flag? I am sure if they get enough people pushing for it that they will consider it.:salute:
They tried a few years ago. Even with a republican dominated congress the bill didn't pass.

[Pale Rider]

Oh BTW.....I think you are beginning to figure out that NM is alot more lib than con.

Beginning to? I've seen enough bro. nm sounds like quite the liberal in this thread. He's been sticking up for that little America hating liberal slut all the way through here... like a liberal.

[jimnyc]

Why don't we start a campaign to our Congressmen and Senators urging them to pass leglislation making it illegal to damage, destroy and or burn The American Flag? I am sure if they get enough people pushing for it that they will consider it.:salute:

Search the net, you'll find tons of active campaigns, and an official site building support for the amendment. Always wins overwhelmingly in the house and then gets shot down in senate.

[jimnyc]

They tried a few years ago. Even with a republican dominated congress the bill didn't pass.

And that's because it takes 2/3 to pass through senate. And guess who it is that shoots it down by a far majority?

[nevadamedic]

You've been defending her all the way through this fucking thread nm. Why? You think she's going to let you fuck her or something? Why would defend such poor judgement and bad behavior, spitting the face of us veterans, and generally pissing off the whole board?

Excuse me? Why in the fuck would you take it there? You had no right to say that at all. First of all I would and will never think about doing anything or be interested in someone is is less then three years younger then me, second of all she is not into guys and lastly I will stick up for a friend, even when they do something completly fucking stupid and Idiotic.

I also haven't been defending her, I have been saying that people are giving her what she wats, attention. I have said what she is doing is pissing me off and showing disrespect to other users here. I can't stand when someone does anything to our Flag. If you think that im not mad at her for it ask her about a couple of the conversations we have had. What ive been trying to get at is don't feed her attention whoring and she will stop, I can promise you that.

Just because I am not taking sides against her doesn't mean you have to attack me, Im not doing anything wrong.

[Pale Rider]

I didn't blame you for putting it there, I blamed you for giving her the attention she wants. Before you jump to conclusions I have blamed her and called her out on it, we have had a couple conversations about it, I have asked her to change it, ive begged her to change it but it is ultimatly her choice. She want's attention and she is getting it.

I will stick up for whoever I wan't and you have no right to tell me other wise. LN is my friend, I do not care about her political affiliation or what not. Just because I have friends who are Liberal does not mean I share the same views as them.

Also what other Liberal have I stuck up for? If you remember correctly I am the first one to start shit with them on here and on USMB, if you don't believe me ask Gunny or Jimmy, they have seen my Conversations on there. I will tell you this, I will stick up for my friends no matter who they are and if someone has a problem with that then tough shit they need to get over it. Just like your sick of me sticking up for my friend im sick of you telling me what to do, how to do it and if I don't agree with you im trying your patience. Infact ive noticed if anyone doesn't agree with you you go completly apeshit and go on the offensive. You have also been pretty shitty to her and that is why she keeps it up. Im not saying she doesn't deserve it, lord knows most of the time she does.

You know I like you and you know I am not taking sides, I am trying to diffuse this situation. Re-read all my posts on this thread, I have not taken either side, I have jumped her shit on this issue as well, and if I could I would reach through the monitor and ring her little neck. All's ive asked was for you to be the bigger person and walk away from this as I know you are a much better person then she is being right now.

Go ahead and get mad at me for not agreeing with you I don't care, I am not going to take sides on this issue, I like you both and I hate seing people I like and respect fight over bullshit. Once again so you understand this, I think she is in the wrong here, that Avatar is bullshit, I wan't more then anything or her to change the Avatar, ask her if you dont believe me.


You "like" her? What on earth for? You should pick your "friends" more carefully nm.