Which is the more conservative position? What is conservatism?

[sear]

When someone tells me they're conservative, my first question to them may be:

"What do you wish to conserve?"

Conservatives include fiscal conservatives, citizens that want to minimize government scope, cost, and authoritarianism, and expand individual rights.

Let's consider the example of the New York State (NYS) prison system.

It reportedly costs about $50K / year to hold a citizen prisoner in NYS.

BUT !!

It costs about a $tenth of that to put that same prisoner through college.

Some might say it's bleeding heart liberal to pay for the education of prisoners.

BUT !!

Is it not conservative to reduce the cost of government?

So which is the more conservative position?

BTW
Lest you assert that to do so would be to reward bad behavior (want a college education? Steal a car or mug a school girl) NYS Governor Cuomo has approved a plan for middleclass NYS tax payers to get a 4 year college degree $free.

[Abbey Marie]

When someone tells me they're conservative, my first question to them may be:

"What do you wish to conserve?"

Conservatives include fiscal conservatives, citizens that want to minimize government scope, cost, and authoritarianism, and expand individual rights.

Let's consider the example of the New York State (NYS) prison system.

It reportedly costs about $50K / year to hold a citizen prisoner in NYS.

BUT !!

It costs about a $tenth of that to put that same prisoner through college.

Some might say it's bleeding heart liberal to pay for the education of prisoners.

BUT !!

Is it not conservative to reduce the cost of government?

So which is the more conservative position?

BTW
Lest you assert that to do so would be to reward bad behavior (want a college education? Steal a car or mug a school girl) NYS Governor Cuomo has approved a plan for middleclass NYS tax payers to get a 4 year college degree $free.

So, I assume you are saying take them out of the prison and put them in school? Otherwise we are paying for both prison and schooling, and there are zero savings. Just more costs.

You're going to have to think that one through a bit more. How will you guarantee the safety of the public while Mr. Felon is free and carries his books to school? And what on earth makes you think that these criminals would even be able, let alone willing, to study and pass the tests and write the papers necessary to graduate from college? What kind of people do you think turn to crime in the first place? Responsible, intelligent folks with a thirst to learn? :rolleyes:

[Kathianne]

So, I assume you are saying take them out of the prison and put them in school? Otherwise we are paying for both prison and schooling, and there are zero savings. Just more costs.

You're going to have to think that one through a bit more. How will you guarantee the safety of the public while Mr. Felon is free and carries his books to school? And what on earth makes you think that these criminals would even be able, let alone willing, to study and pass the tests and write the papers necessary to graduate from college? What kind of people do you think turn to crime in the first place? Responsible, intelligent folks with a thirst to learn? :rolleyes:

It's simple, Abbey, it's college or crime. :rolleyes: I love 'free stuff!'

The common knowledge right now is out of whack, that everyone should go to college. It seems that is off a bit, since most universities have been lowering requirements to graduate and just like high school, more and more students are failing in spite of that.

[sear]

"So, I assume you are saying take them out of the prison and put them in school? Otherwise we are paying for both prison and schooling, and there are zero savings. Just more costs." A #2

That's one approach, but not the only approach.

How come federal law prohibits Bibles in classrooms, and yet distributes Bibles in prisons? That’s too late. attributed by Paul Harvey to Glenn Wheeler / Columbus, OH


Rather than trying to figure out how to pry them out of prison, why not prevent them from going to prison in the first place?

Please tell me candidly a #2:
do you not perceive hypocrisy in the nation that memorializes itself in song as "the land of the free, and the home of the brave" reportedly has the highest per capita incarceration rate in the Western world?

Isn't Drug War primarily responsible for that?

Cancer is tough to cure.
North Korea will be trouble to contain.
BUT !! Drug War we can end with the stroke of a pen !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
Why have we not already done so ?!

"You're going to have to think that one through a bit more." A #2

Please don't assume I haven't.

"And what on earth makes you think that these criminals would even be able, let alone willing, to study and pass the tests and write the papers necessary to graduate from college?" A #2

What makes you think I think that?

I'll share with you one of the most valuable pieces of education I ever got A #2.

In 1981 I was standing near the parts counter talking to my motorcycle salesman.
There was a brand new rear-view mirror still in packaging, resting on the counter.
The word "UNIVERSAL" was clearly emblazoned on the packaging.
The salesman noticed that I noticed. So he commented: "Universal means it doesn't fit anything."
It was a very important component of my education.

I mean no disrespect to you.
I not only understand, but to some degree am also subject to the allure of "one size fits all" policy.
But in criminal justice, it's a will-o’-the-wisp.

BUT !!

Just because ending recidivism for some prisoners wouldn't work for some others?
If it's not for everybody, then it's not for anybody?!

Nonsense!

It's a major step in the right direction.

"What kind of people do you think turn to crime in the first place? Responsible, intelligent folks with a thirst to learn? :rolleyes:

I think it varies.

[Abbey Marie]

...
"You're going to have to think that one through a bit more." A #2

Please don't assume I haven't.
"And what on earth makes you think that these criminals would even be able, let alone willing, to study and pass the tests and write the papers necessary to graduate from college?" A #2

What makes you think I think that?
...


I can only go by what you actually put in your posts; I'm fairly intuitive, but I'm not a mind reader. Which in this case led to the obvious conclusion that you have't thought it through.

It's ok, we've all done it at times.

[sear]

"I'm fairly intuitive, but I'm not a mind reader." A #5

Intuition not necessary.

I wouldn't attempt to list every possible alternate.

Suffice it to say, there are options.

"Which in this case led to the obvious conclusion that you have't thought it through." A #5

Or so one might conclude if she hasn't thought it through.

No.
If I were to include comprehensive detail, it would spiral out to the print equivalent of hundreds of pages. This isn't the forum for that.

"I can only go by what you actually put in your posts" A #5

I doubt that, but my condolence if it's true.

I'm vastly more capable than that; able to assess an issue, and then think both inside and outside the box at the same time.

BUT !!

I understand. It's skill I take for granted. It seems it's a capability some others lack.
No worries. You'll catch on in time.

"It's ok, we've all done it at times." A #5

In the back seat of a Camero?

[Black Diamond]

"I'm fairly intuitive, but I'm not a mind reader." A #5

Intuition not necessary.

I wouldn't attempt to list every possible alternate.

Suffice it to say, there are options.

"Which in this case led to the obvious conclusion that you have't thought it through." A #5

Or so one might conclude if she hasn't thought it through.

No.
If I were to include comprehensive detail, it would spiral out to the print equivalent of hundreds of pages. This isn't the forum for that.

"I can only go by what you actually put in your posts" A #5

I doubt that, but my condolence if it's true.

I'm vastly more capable than that; able to assess an issue, and then think both inside and outside the box at the same time.

BUT !!

I understand. It's skill I take for granted. It seems it's a capability some others lack.
No worries. You'll catch on in time.

"It's ok, we've all done it at times." A #5

In the back seat of a Camero?
It's Camaro, you ignorant twat. You really are a piece of shit. So many people here keep giving you a chance. I knew you were a worthless fuckstain the first time you posted. I've seen this in corporations. Instead of firing someone right away, they think worthless employees can be developed or redeemed. You can't dress up a turd. Christmas is over.

[Abbey Marie]

"I'm fairly intuitive, but I'm not a mind reader." A #5

Intuition not necessary.

I wouldn't attempt to list every possible alternate.

Suffice it to say, there are options.

"Which in this case led to the obvious conclusion that you have't thought it through." A #5

Or so one might conclude if she hasn't thought it through.

No.
If I were to include comprehensive detail, it would spiral out to the print equivalent of hundreds of pages. This isn't the forum for that.

"I can only go by what you actually put in your posts" A #5

I doubt that, but my condolence if it's true.

I'm vastly more capable than that; able to assess an issue, and then think both inside and outside the box at the same time.

BUT !!

I understand. It's skill I take for granted. It seems it's a capability some others lack.
No worries. You'll catch on in time.

"It's ok, we've all done it at times." A #5

In the back seat of a Camero?


Everything you've just said makes no sense. Outies.

[sear]

"It's Camaro, you ignorant twat." BD

Yeah.
I've never been much of a GM fan, although I liked my Cobalt. When the tranny fell off, I'd have bought a new one. But they don't sell them in the U.S. anymore.

So I got one of these:

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9858&stc=1

It's got an automatic. But other than that it's fine.

"You really are a piece of shit." BD

A big steaming toilet-clogger?

"So many people here keep giving you a chance." BD

Yes.
I was smitten by the humanitarian courtesy that overwhelmingly oozes from every pour of this site.

"I knew you were a worthless fuckstain the first time you posted." BD

And you demonstrate your infinite intellectual and moral superiority over me by refusing to refute a single point I've made, and instead reduce yourself to name-calling and vulgarity.

Oh! Your mother would be SO PROUD of you right now.

"Christmas is over." BD

Just a little over 8 months away.

Please tell Santa I still want my pony.