Where Angels Fear To Tread

[Kathianne]

NY state court wades into 'reasonableness' of affirmative consent at university. She didn't say, 'Yes,' but did remove her shirt when sex was offered. Sooo, the university expelled the male.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/04/14/n-y-state-court-decision-setting-aside-suny-student-expulsion-in-affirmative-consent-sexual-misconduct-case/?utm_term=.f23b6dfafacf


N.Y. state court decision setting aside SUNY student expulsion in ‘affirmative consent’ sexual misconduct case<section id="top-content" class="col-lg-12 col-md-12 col-sm-10 col-xs-10 col-xs-offset-1 col-sm-offset-1 col-md-offset-0 col-lg-offset-0 layout" style="box-sizing: border-box; position: relative; min-height: 1px; float: left; width: 1080.8px; margin-left: 0px; margin-bottom: 40px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: FranklinITCProLight, HelveticaNeue, &quot;Helvetica Neue Light&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, &quot;Lucida Grande&quot;, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; padding: 0px !important; border-bottom: 1px solid rgb(213, 213, 213) !important;">




</section><section id="main-content" class="col-xl-9 col-lg-8 col-md-8 col-sm-12 col-xs-12 col-xs-offset-0 col-sm-offset-0 col-md-offset-0 col-lg-offset-0 layout" style="box-sizing: border-box; position: relative; min-height: 1px; padding-right: 90.0625px; float: left; width: 720.531px; margin-left: 0px; border-right: none; margin-bottom: 1.875rem; background-image: url(&quot;//img.washingtonpost.com/pb/resources/img/spacer-gray.png&quot;); background-repeat: repeat-y; background-position: 94% center; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: FranklinITCProLight, HelveticaNeue, &quot;Helvetica Neue Light&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, &quot;Lucida Grande&quot;, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; padding-left: 0px !important; padding-top: 0px !important; padding-bottom: 0px !important;">




</section>By Eugene Volokh (https://www.washingtonpost.com/people/eugene-volokh/) April 14 at 8:25 AM

[Abbey Marie]

If SUNY hadn't expelled him, feminist protests would have erupted.

But the crux is this:


As set forth in the student code of conduct, consent to sexual activity cannot be inferred from silence and must flow from “spoken words or behavior that indicates, without doubt to either party, a mutual agreement to” proceed. The complainant’s account was set forth by others who had conversed with her, with the Hearing Board considering written notes prepared by respondent Annette Robbins, SUNY’s director of student conduct and community standards, and the hearing testimony of a campus police officer.

Unless the sex was had in the presence of witnesses, it will generally be a he said-she said situation. And the fact that the young woman afterwards told her story to others is not as big of a deal as SUNY and the Dissent want to make it out to be, IMO. In essence, it is just her repeating her version of the facts. You still need to believe her over him, with no proof.

[Kathianne]

If SUNY hadn't expelled him, feminist protests would have erupted.

But the crux is this:



Unless the sex was had in the presence of witnesses, it will generally be a he said-she said situation. And the fact that the young woman afterwards told her story to others is not as big of a deal as SUNY and the Dissent want to make it out to be, IMO. In essence, it is just her repeating her version of the facts. You still need to believe her over him, with no proof.


Like I said regarding the airlines, there has to be a modicum of commonsense. That Dear Colleague letter regarding Title IX is just so much BS, that is where the nonsense in the handbook originates.

[Gunny]

Not exactly college, but rule of thumb in the Marines is don't get caaught alone with a female Marine. I found it absurd, but unfortunately. there are those females that will use their gender/sex as a weapon. Watched it happen for years. Pays to be married to a Marine and listen to the ex and her WM friends talk. :)

[Russ]

If the rules make it too difficult for a woman to accuse a man of rape, or we question her character because of it, then the results are horrible. But in this case it is too easy for the woman to accuse the man or rape, and they too averse to questioning her character, and the results are also horrible. They have to remember that this is a man's life that they are potentially ruining.

In my opinion, her actions were non-verbal consent. How tough is it to say "no" at least once?

Btw, I wonder if anyone on campus (or anywhere else) will ever want to be alone with her again?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

If the rules make it too difficult for a woman to accuse a man of rape, or we question her character because of it, then the results are horrible. But in this case it is too easy for the woman to accuse the man or rape, and they too averse to questioning her character, and the results are also horrible. They have to remember that this is a man's life that they are potentially ruining.

In my opinion, her actions were non-verbal consent. How tough is it to say "no" at least once?

Btw, I wonder if anyone on campus (or anywhere else) will ever want to be alone with her again?

If a woman does not say no and her actions all are saying yes, then how is a man to know ??
I mean if I am kissing her, she is kissing back, I touch any intimate zone she holds dear- she moans in pleasure--well am I supposed to get her to sign a contract and permission slip, before continuing?
This liberal fem'nazi crap has got the young men all ffed up and always in danger of being wrongly accused.
I say and I damn well know, actions speak louder than words and if she is hell bent in returning the passion and voluntarily starts removing her own clothes then she said yes--if not, she had best speak loudly clearly the words--- hell no-stop!
If she does not and later she starts screaming rape(when none occurred) then she is lying and whatever the reason she does so , matters not.
Yet the way these idiots have it now, the young man's life can be destroyed.
This should be fixed and pronto..

Unless one is a damn moron one knows when the lady is very willing and eager to reciprocate...
If in doubt, leave the gal and find one that can communicate better ..
Tis why back in my day, I never engaged in leaving clubs with drunk women, regardless of how damn sexy and beautiful they were.
Yes, missed out on a lot but never ever had a misunderstanding or a later made false accusation..
I feel for these young men these days..
Justin is only about 7 years away from facing this crap..
We old school guys, ones with honor and common sense stayed well clear of certain types and knew without doubt which way the wind blew before we sail on into fine, sweet and welcoming harbor! -Tyr