Hey guys, what are you going to do for health insurance?

[gabosaurus]

In case you don't realize it, pretty much everyone in your age group has a preexisting condition that is not covered under the health care bill passed by the House. Which means your health care provider can drop you in 2020. Even if you are covered by your employer, they can still either exclude you or jack up your premiums. Unless your employer has a blanket coverage plan and you are a member.
Take Jim, for example. Everyone in his family has a condition that is not covered. Also, under the new education plan, schools no longer are required to fund options for non-mainstream students. If your kid has a disability or something like ADHD, your either have to go with the mainstream or pay for a special education program.
Good luck with that. :cool:

[NightTrain]

In case you don't realize it, pretty much everyone in your age group has a preexisting condition that is not covered under the health care bill passed by the House. Which means your health care provider can drop you in 2020. Even if you are covered by your employer, they can still either exclude you or jack up your premiums. Unless your employer has a blanket coverage plan and you are a member.
Take Jim, for example. Everyone in his family has a condition that is not covered. Also, under the new education plan, schools no longer are required to fund options for non-mainstream students. If your kid has a disability or something like ADHD, your either have to go with the mainstream or pay for a special education program.
Good luck with that. :cool:

Well, hopefully the democrats will save us from ourselves, right?

[darin]

quod tute agere possis.

My healthcare is my responsibility - forcing the collective to pay for my health misfortune is both immoral and enslaves me to their will.

[pete311]

quod tute agere possis.

My healthcare is my responsibility - forcing the collective to pay for my health misfortune is both immoral and enslaves me to their will.

Just different worlds people want to live in. I'm not going to debate it, but I think reasonable quality healthcare that's affordable should be a right. A sweet kid who gets cancer should not die because his fuckup parent works at subway. On the flip side, I don't want my proverbial life to be over because I'm $100K in debt paying off my heart surgery.

[darin]

Just different worlds people want to live in. I'm not going to debate it, but I think reasonable quality healthcare that's affordable should be a right. A sweet kid who gets cancer should not die because his fuckup parent works at subway. On the flip side, I don't want my proverbial life to be over because I'm $100K in debt paying off my heart surgery.

It's simply an immoral viewpoint you have there.

The immorality arises from compelling people who may not have a stake they MUST forfeit their income to cover the luck or un-luck of the health of another in their community. Plenty of charities exist to handle the eaches - the extreme cases. There are ways to seek relief from the debt of something catastrophic.

More immorality exists in determining what is 'affordable health care' - how to achieve it. Do we immorally limit doctor's fees? Do we immorally limit insurance premiums? Do we immorally limit access to care? Do we immorally hinder the free market?

[pete311]

It's simply an immoral viewpoint you have there.

The immorality arises from compelling people who may not have a stake they MUST forfeit their income to cover the luck or un-luck of the health of another in their community. Plenty of charities exist to handle the eaches - the extreme cases. There are ways to seek relief from the debt of something catastrophic.

More immorality exists in determining what is 'affordable health care' - how to achieve it. Do we immorally limit doctor's fees? Do we immorally limit insurance premiums? Do we immorally limit access to care? Do we immorally hinder the free market?

Our views on morality are different.

[Drummond]

Just different worlds people want to live in. I'm not going to debate it, but I think reasonable quality healthcare that's affordable should be a right. A sweet kid who gets cancer should not die because his fuckup parent works at subway. On the flip side, I don't want my proverbial life to be over because I'm $100K in debt paying off my heart surgery.

Pete, you should try it sometime !!

We have our NHS over here in the UK. What you fight for, we HAVE. So, what do we have ?

We have a health service that's a massive drain on our economy. One that's struggling to operate, where waiting times for treatments, especially in Accident & Emergency hospital units, are so overwhelmed with demand that some of them are nearing meltdown.

How well do you think nurses and doctors can do their jobs, in an environment where extreme pressures are the norm ?

Our NHS, serving (i.e 'covering' ... in truth, only a small fraction are dealt with in 'real time') just 65 million people .. is ONE OF THE BIGGEST EMPLOYERS ON THE PLANET. We have a big influx of foreign nurses and doctors, these taken from other countries who, I'm sure, also need them !! So, we're impoverishing ourselves (financially), and impoverishing other nations (qualitatively). And for what ? To prop up a service that's creaking at the seams !

From the BBC (.. so it must be accurate, yes ??) ... see ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38570960


Record numbers of patients are facing long waits in A&Es as documents leaked to the BBC show the full extent of the winter crisis in the NHS in England.

Nearly a quarter of patients waited longer than four hours in A&E last week, with just one hospital hitting its target.

And huge numbers also faced long waits for a bed when A&E staff admitted them into hospital as emergency cases.

There were more than 18,000 "trolley waits" of four hours or more last week.

That suggests about one in five patients admitted for further treatment endured one of these long waits on trolleys and in hospital corridors - twice the rate normally seen.

Some 485 of them were for more than 12 hours - treble the number seen during the whole of January last year.

The figures come from a document compiled by NHS Improvement, one of the regulators in England, and show that this winter is proving to be the most difficult for more than a decade.

Since the start of December, hospitals have seen only 82.3% of patients who attended A&E within the four-hour target.

The Government pours money into the NHS .. money taken from taxpayers. The result is a NHS that's consistently failing to meet targets, where would-be patients have lengthy waits just to be SEEN by medical staff !

Ours was the first such State-funded system the world has ever seen ... introduced in 1948. If such a healthcare system is such a good model, Pete, then how come we STILL can't make it work well .. ???

You want healthcare chaos, Pete ? Then continue to argue as you do.

[darin]

Our views on morality are different.

If you support theft I think your morals are terrible. But that's your choice, I suppose.

[pete311]

If you support theft I think your morals are terrible. But that's your choice, I suppose.

Where is the outrage over paying for fire and police that help people other than yourself? Bottom line is that money should not determine whether you live or die.

[Gunny]

In case you don't realize it, pretty much everyone in your age group has a preexisting condition that is not covered under the health care bill passed by the House. Which means your health care provider can drop you in 2020. Even if you are covered by your employer, they can still either exclude you or jack up your premiums. Unless your employer has a blanket coverage plan and you are a member.
Take Jim, for example. Everyone in his family has a condition that is not covered. Also, under the new education plan, schools no longer are required to fund options for non-mainstream students. If your kid has a disability or something like ADHD, your either have to go with the mainstream or pay for a special education program.
Good luck with that. :cool:

Pay for my own insurance like I always have. It works. Called personal responsibility.

[Gunny]

Just different worlds people want to live in. I'm not going to debate it, but I think reasonable quality healthcare that's affordable should be a right. A sweet kid who gets cancer should not die because his fuckup parent works at subway. On the flip side, I don't want my proverbial life to be over because I'm $100K in debt paying off my heart surgery.

Try St Jude's. It's for kids with cancer and the parents that can't pay aren't billed. Runs of DONATIONS. Nobody is denied healthcare in this country. Not legally.

Here's a solution: I pay for MY healthcare, and you pay for yours? Instead of I pay for my healthcare AND yours.

And if you didn't want to debate it you shouldn't have hit "enter". One-off shots means you either have no argument, or you're trolling. You choose.

[Drummond]

Where is the outrage over paying for fire and police that help people other than yourself? Bottom line is that money should not determine whether you live or die.

Bottom line, Pete, is that you're condoning COMPULSION. When an almighty State compels people to pay what it chooses to extort from them ... then, where does it end ? What would be demanded in future, all supposedly 'for the common good' .. ?

Besides, as I've pointed out - and as you've seen fit to ignore, haven't you ?? - your so-called 'model' system just DOES NOT WORK, at least, not well. If we can't get it right, after several generations of trying, AND we land ourselves with crippling financial burdens into the bargain, by what right do you still advocate that America must suffer the same fate ??

[pete311]

Try St Jude's. It's for kids with cancer and the parents that can't pay aren't billed. Runs of DONATIONS. Nobody is denied healthcare in this country. Not legally.

Here's a solution: I pay for MY healthcare, and you pay for yours? Instead of I pay for my healthcare AND yours.

And if you didn't want to debate it you shouldn't have hit "enter". One-off shots means you either have no argument, or you're trolling. You choose.

St Jude's is amazing. When there is one is every city and town let me know.

[pete311]

Bottom line, Pete, is that you're condoning COMPULSION. When an almighty State compels people to pay what it chooses to extort from them ... then, where does it end ? What would be demanded in future, all supposedly 'for the common good' .. ?

Besides, as I've pointed out - and as you've seen fit to ignore, haven't you ?? - your so-called 'model' system just DOES NOT WORK, at least, not well. If we can't get it right, after several generations of trying, AND we land ourselves with crippling financial burdens into the bargain, by what right do you still advocate that America must suffer the same fate ??

Healthcare is where it should not end. I am not advocating for the specific UK system.

[darin]

Where is the outrage over paying for fire and police that help people other than yourself? Bottom line is that money should not determine whether you live or die.

Money never does - your strawman aside, nobody is refused urgent care based on their inability to pay.

I'd support this: Gov't saying "Give your money to us OR gave the same amount to a charity" because charities tend to be much more efficient. Would be a good step.

Any time the govt decides morality they mess it up. See also: Nazism and Communism. Further topics for reading: Bernie Sanders

[jimnyc]

In case you don't realize it, pretty much everyone in your age group has a preexisting condition that is not covered under the health care bill passed by the House. Which means your health care provider can drop you in 2020. Even if you are covered by your employer, they can still either exclude you or jack up your premiums. Unless your employer has a blanket coverage plan and you are a member.
Take Jim, for example. Everyone in his family has a condition that is not covered. Also, under the new education plan, schools no longer are required to fund options for non-mainstream students. If your kid has a disability or something like ADHD, your either have to go with the mainstream or pay for a special education program.
Good luck with that. :cool:

There is plenty of pre-existing conditions covered, so stop stretching things. Of course not everything is, and much will be left up to the states.

---

VERIFIED: MacArthur and Upton Amendments Strengthen AHCA, Protect People with Pre-Existing Conditions

Over the last month, there have been a handful of revisions to the American Health Care Act (AHCA) that reflect member input. The latest are 1) an amendment provided by Rep. Tom MacArthur (R-NJ) that gives states flexibility in addressing premiums and best serving their populations; and 2) and an amendment by Rep. Fred Upton (R-MI) providing an additional protection for people with pre-existing conditions in states seeking that flexibility.

Here’s how the MacArthur and Upton amendments help us lower premiums while keeping protections for the most vulnerable in place:

VERIFIED: The MacArthur amendment protects people with pre-existing conditions.
The amendment is very clear: Under no circumstance can people be denied coverage because of a pre-existing condition. Current law prohibiting pricing customers based on health status remains in place and can only be waived by a state if that state has chosen to take care of the people through other risk-sharing or reinsurance mechanisms. Even if a state asks for and is granted a waiver, no person may be priced based on health status if they have maintained continuous coverage. In addition to these protections, the AHCA provides significant resources at the federal and state level for risk-sharing programs that lower premiums for all people.

VERIFIED: It provides a strict process to receive a waiver from federal mandates.
Although it gives states an option to tailor coverage limitations, the process is very strict. A state must explain how a waiver will reach the goals of lowering premiums, increasing enrollment, stabilizing the market/premiums, and/or increasing choice. States must lay out the benefits they would provide. And most importantly, states may only apply for a waiver if they have their own risk pool in place. Again, the coverage of people with pre-existing conditions will be protected.

VERIFIED: It gives states flexibility in addressing health care premiums.
The populations in different states have different health care needs. The health care system in Wisconsin is different than the health care system in Arizona. This amendment gives states the flexibility to address these diverse needs without letting the most vulnerable—whether it’s the elderly, children, or people with pre-existing conditions—fall through the cracks.

Rest here - http://www.speaker.gov/general/verified-macarthur-amendment-strengthens-ahca-protects-people-pre-existing-conditions

[Black Diamond]

Where is the outrage over paying for fire and police that help people other than yourself? Bottom line is that money should not determine whether you live or die.
Emergency rooms can't turn people away for not being insured.

[jimnyc]

Emergency rooms can't turn people away for not being insured.

But the better doctors and hospitals, they can triage someone - and then force them to a community hospital for their "free" care from that point on. :)

[Black Diamond]

But the better doctors and hospitals, they can triage someone - and then force them to a community hospital for their "free" care from that point on. :)
Triage happens.

[gabosaurus]

I realize that many of you have existing health care coverage that you pay for. But what if your coverage was cancelled or your premium was raised by 30 percent? If you are over 50, you are considered "high risk" and insurers can raise your premium by as much as 30 percent. Or if you have preexisting conditions ( http://time.com/money/4763609/pre-existing-conditions-ahca/ ), you can be cancelled. Ladies, you should remember that pregnancy and childbirth are preexisting conditions, as is sexual assault. But not erectile dysfunction, of course. :rolleyes:

[jimnyc]

I realize that many of you have existing health care coverage that you pay for. But what if your coverage was cancelled or your premium was raised by 30 percent? If you are over 50, you are considered "high risk" and insurers can raise your premium by as much as 30 percent. Or if you have preexisting conditions ( http://time.com/money/4763609/pre-existing-conditions-ahca/ ), you can be cancelled. Ladies, you should remember that pregnancy and childbirth are preexisting conditions, as is sexual assault. But not erectile dysfunction, of course. :rolleyes:

The bill hasn't even really started in senate yet. There will be lots of changes and fixes. All towards what those of us on the right want. :)

[Black Diamond]

I am sure gabby didn't complain when her premiums and deductibles skyrocketed under Obama.

[Black Diamond]

The bill hasn't even really started in senate yet. There will be lots of changes and fixes. All towards what those of us on the right want. :)
Should I have the audacity of hope ?

[Gunny]

St Jude's is amazing. When there is one is every city and town let me know.

To quote Connor MacLeod: "There can be only one". Ironically, Christopher Lambert who played Connor MacLeod does the St Jude's commercials.

They start popping up all over the place, and they just become another part of the system. Then they figure out how to get your money. If you put in the time and effort to find one, I am sure there are comparable places all over the place doing the same work.

[pete311]

Money never does - your strawman aside, nobody is refused urgent care based on their inability to pay.


Next time you get cancer go to the emergency room and get cured?

[Black Diamond]

Next time you get cancer go to the emergency room and get cured?
Here's a tip: Buy insurance before you get it. Whether there's a "mandate" or not.

[Bilgerat]

Here's a tip: Buy insurance before you get it. Whether there's a "mandate" or not.


One of those who would ask the Ambulance Driver to "stop on the way to the hospital" so he could buy some"?

[gabosaurus]

Our premiums didn't "skyrocket" at all. Everyone who works at my husband's company pays the same amount for blanket health coverage. And we don't have a deductible. Everything is covered. Some company plans are not as generous. You might want to check yours.

[Drummond]

Healthcare is where it should not end. I am not advocating for the specific UK system.

... where it should NOT end ???

Where, then, should such compulsions end ? What else do you insist the people endure, then, compelled to follow the State's wishes ??

Yes. I just bet you're not advocating the 'specific UK system'. After all, the realities of THAT are a matter of record. No, to advance your propagandist line, you cannot be encumbered by known failure of the system you would choose, can you ?

That's despite the fact that FAILURE is the OUTCOME of what you want.

[Gunny]

... where it should NOT end ???

Where, then, should such compulsions end ? What else do you insist the people endure, then, compelled to follow the State's wishes ??

Yes. I just bet you're not advocating the 'specific UK system'. After all, the realities of THAT are a matter of record. No, to advance your propagandist line, you cannot be encumbered by known failure of the system you would choose, can you ?

That's despite the fact that FAILURE is the OUTCOME of what you want.

No offense intended Drummond, but we kicked your country out of this one for less than these crap programs and laws our own government is foisting on us. "Freedom" my tail end. The poor foeught a war so the wealthy so-called intellectuals didn't have to pay their taxes. Wonder where that not paying taxes to the government idea went ....

[aboutime]

In case you don't realize it, pretty much everyone in your age group has a preexisting condition that is not covered under the health care bill passed by the House. Which means your health care provider can drop you in 2020. Even if you are covered by your employer, they can still either exclude you or jack up your premiums. Unless your employer has a blanket coverage plan and you are a member.
Take Jim, for example. Everyone in his family has a condition that is not covered. Also, under the new education plan, schools no longer are required to fund options for non-mainstream students. If your kid has a disability or something like ADHD, your either have to go with the mainstream or pay for a special education program.
Good luck with that. :cool:


gabby. You really should learn to pay attention, and read more comprehensively. That bill passed by the House was NOT the final product. So, you and the other Negative loving Liberals who hate everything if it's not your idea, need to get a life.
If you are HONEST with yourself....for a change. You will finally admit that Obamacare (ACA) is a failure. And, sounding like Nancy Pelosi, and Chucky Cheese Schumer who LIE like a carpet all the time...just won't win any prizes for you.
Of course. None of you can be HONEST enough to state what still remains in the HOUSE bill..to be amended by the SENATE.
That would ruin all of the LIES you have been programmed to repeat so often.

[Gunny]

Our premiums didn't "skyrocket" at all. Everyone who works at my husband's company pays the same amount for blanket health coverage. And we don't have a deductible. Everything is covered. Some company plans are not as generous. You might want to check yours.

And just who is it you think is paying for the healthcare of those who DON'T pay for their own? The good faery?

[gabosaurus]

And just who is it you think is paying for the healthcare of those who DON'T pay for their own? The good faery?
The American taxpayer is. Which is you. What you pay depends on how good your healthcare policy is. Which is why I love my husband's company. You know how many preexisting conditions my daughter and I have? Way too many. But since we have a blanket policy, everything is covered.
As an experiment, I tried finding a healthcare policy online for my family, with all our conditions. All I got was "you are not eligible under our guidelines."

[Gunny]

The American taxpayer is. Which is you. What you pay depends on how good your healthcare policy is. Which is why I love my husband's company. You know how many preexisting conditions my daughter and I have? Way too many. But since we have a blanket policy, everything is covered.y
As an experiment, I tried finding a healthcare policy online for my family, with all our conditions. All I got was "you are not eligible under our guidelines."

Well, THIS American taxpayer doesn't want to pay for someone else's healthcare. I pay for mine. You pay for yours. See how easy that is?

[BoogyMan]

Our views on morality are different.

It would seem that your view on morality is one where I am responsible for making sure that your bills are paid. I help people every day, but I do it when I choose, not when the central government tells me it is time.

[BoogyMan]

The American taxpayer is. Which is you. What you pay depends on how good your healthcare policy is. Which is why I love my husband's company. You know how many preexisting conditions my daughter and I have? Way too many. But since we have a blanket policy, everything is covered.
As an experiment, I tried finding a healthcare policy online for my family, with all our conditions. All I got was "you are not eligible under our guidelines."

So you are going to pay for my healthcare, though, right?

[Gunny]

It would seem that your view on morality is one where I am responsible for making sure that your bills are paid. I help people every day, but I do it when I choose, not when the central government tells me it is time.Exactly.

[pete311]

It would seem that your view on morality is one where I am responsible for making sure that your bills are paid. I help people every day, but I do it when I choose, not when the central government tells me it is time.

Then go with NT and live in a log cabin in Alaska off the grid. Otherwise you are part of a system that provides society with services that benefit the greater good. Aka you are a hypocrite.

[Gunny]

Then go with NT and live in a log cabin in Alaska off the grid. Otherwise you are part of a system that provides society with services that benefit the greater good. Aka you are a hypocrite.

It is YOU who is the hypocrite, sir. Funny how I am individually responsible for me, AND responsible for everyone else; yet, you let the irresponsible non-contributors off the hook. If you want to be a socialist, move to France or Russia. Become a Borg and join the Collective. While you're circling the bowl, feel free to not take those of us that are responsible and can think straight and see BS for what it is with you.

AND ... NT is NOT off the grid. Learn your terminology. He's got an electronic footprint. Probably on a cell too. Maybe he just likes Alaska? I like S Texas. I can disappear into nothing ass easily as he can.

[NightTrain]

Then go with NT and live in a log cabin in Alaska off the grid. Otherwise you are part of a system that provides society with services that benefit the greater good. Aka you are a hypocrite.

Holy shit.

Get this through your head : I do not live off the grid.

NT does not live off the grid.

Rick does not live off the grid.

I live in the suburbs with a house stuffed full of electronics and 3 vehicles and a boat parked in my driveway. I have a lawn and a honda lawnmower with a couple of lilacs in the front yard. My street is paved. I have a mailbox in front of my house. My cat gets her ass kicked by the neighbor's cat. The neighbor across the street has a shithead son that thinks his shitbox Subaru with a straight pipe is really cool.

I have a cabin that IS off the grid; however I DO NOT LIVE there. I play there.

[pete311]

Holy shit.

Get this through your head : I do not live off the grid.

NT does not live off the grid.

Rick does not live off the grid.

I live in the suburbs with a house stuffed full of electronics and 3 vehicles and a boat parked in my driveway. I have a lawn and a honda lawnmower with a couple of lilacs in the front yard. My street is paved. I have a mailbox in front of my house. My cat gets her ass kicked by the neighbor's cat. The neighbor across the street has a shithead son that thinks his shitbox Subaru with a straight pipe is really cool.

I have a cabin that IS off the grid; however I DO NOT LIVE there. I play there.

How dare you sir! Living on the grid means you benefit from others tax dollars. Paying for other's kids to go to K-12. Paying for others to use police and fire. Paying for others to use roads. Taking advantage of many dozens of subsidies. THE OUTRAGE!!!

[NightTrain]

How dare you sir! Living on the grid means you benefit from others tax dollars. Paying for other's kids to go to K-12. Paying for others to use police and fire. Paying for others to use roads. Taking advantage of many dozens of subsidies. THE OUTRAGE!!!

Believe me, Petey - I pay more than my fair share of taxes and pay for my own insurance. Not only that, I generate jobs so other people can pay taxes and buy their own insurance, too.

Show me where I'm taking advantage of subsidies.

[pete311]

Believe me, Petey - I pay more than my fair share of taxes and pay for my own insurance. Not only that, I generate jobs so other people can pay taxes and buy their own insurance, too.

Show me where I'm taking advantage of subsidies.

Yeah and those taxes go towards social and civil programs that help other people. Gov has hundreds maybe thousands of subsidies. Big one is for farmers. Most wouldn't be able to stay in business without them. Bastards living off the gov teet and our money. It's welfare!

[Gunny]

Yeah and those taxes go towards social and civil programs that help other people. Gov has hundreds maybe thousands of subsidies. Big one is for farmers. Most wouldn't be able to stay in business without them. Bastards living off the gov teet and our money. It's welfare!

Those taxes go to pay government employees and feed the bureaucracy. Social services get a mere pittance after that, and they are rife with corruption and good ol' boy-ism

[NightTrain]

Yeah and those taxes go towards social and civil programs that help other people. Gov has hundreds maybe thousands of subsidies. Big one is for farmers. Most wouldn't be able to stay in business without them. Bastards living off the gov teet and our money. It's welfare!

You still haven't shown where I'm taking advantage of subsidies and getting any sort of a free ride.

You can't, because I'm not. I work my ass off.

And you know what? I'm happy and my family is happy. No one pays for anything around here that doesn't directly come from my & my wife's hard work. We don't need nor want a handout, and that's because we are what's known as being self sufficient. We don't have time to protest for 'free' shit nor do we have any inclination to.

Your love of socialist ideas thinking that my hard earned money should go to those that choose to sit on their ass in this country is disturbing. Every able bodied American is capable of doing as I do and pay their own way & then some, but it boils down to one thing as to why millions don't : laziness. I don't have any problem at all with temporary help with those befallen with misfortune. I do, however, have a big problem with the millions who think welfare is a way of life.

Now that we've discussed me, Petey, I'm curious : How many social programs are you signed up for to earn your enthusiasm for millions of socialist minded parasitic Americans?

You claim to be a small business owner like me; however your many words in support of socialist wealth redistribution in all facets of American society tell me that you're not. No one that works their ass off - especially business owners - thinks that giving away money to those that are capable of making their own is a good idea. If you truly thought so, you'd be out of business and on the government teat in short order.

Or are you a business owner on the government teat? What is it that you do, exactly?

[Gunny]

Holy shit.

Get this through your head : I do not live off the grid.

NT does not live off the grid.

Rick does not live off the grid.

I live in the suburbs with a house stuffed full of electronics and 3 vehicles and a boat parked in my driveway. I have a lawn and a honda lawnmower with a couple of lilacs in the front yard. My street is paved. I have a mailbox in front of my house. My cat gets her ass kicked by the neighbor's cat. The neighbor across the street has a shithead son that thinks his shitbox Subaru with a straight pipe is really cool.

I have a cabin that IS off the grid; however I DO NOT LIVE there. I play there.

Hold your hands over your eyes. No one will see you. I have that on good authority from the granddaughter. She swears by it.:laugh:

[pete311]

You still haven't shown where I'm taking advantage of subsidies and getting any sort of a free ride.

You can't, because I'm not. I work my ass off.

And you know what? I'm happy and my family is happy. No one pays for anything around here that doesn't directly come from my & my wife's hard work. We don't need nor want a handout, and that's because we are what's known as being self sufficient. We don't have time to protest for 'free' shit nor do we have any inclination to.

Your love of socialist ideas thinking that my hard earned money should go to those that choose to sit on their ass in this country is disturbing. Every able bodied American is capable of doing as I do and pay their own way & then some, but it boils down to one thing as to why millions don't : laziness. I don't have any problem at all with temporary help with those befallen with misfortune. I do, however, have a big problem with the millions who think welfare is a way of life.

Now that we've discussed me, Petey, I'm curious : How many social programs are you signed up for to earn your enthusiasm for millions of socialist minded parasitic Americans?

You claim to be a small business owner like me; however your many words in support of socialist wealth redistribution in all facets of American society tell me that you're not. No one that works their ass off - especially business owners - thinks that giving away money to those that are capable of making their own is a good idea. If you truly thought so, you'd be out of business and on the government teat in short order.

Or are you a business owner on the government teat? What is it that you do, exactly?

You're not hearing what I'm saying. I'm saying you already fund many welfare and social program and social services without outcry, but healthcare is where you draw you lines.

[Abbey Marie]

Ladies, you should remember that pregnancy and childbirth are preexisting conditions... :rolleyes:

Isn't horny-ness the real pre-existing condition?

:eek:

[NightTrain]

You're not hearing what I'm saying. I'm saying you already fund many welfare and social program and social services without outcry, but healthcare is where you draw you lines.

It appears you didn't read what I wrote.

I do not like the idea that my tax money goes to fund those that are simply lazy. A temporary helping hand when truly needed is fine; a lifestyle of parasitic existence is not. I do not want to fund irresponsible welfare and I do not want to fund other people's healthcare when they are capable of providing for themselves. If I am capable of providing for myself and my family, so are you. You do what you do and leave me and my money alone. You are not entitled to my money.

There was nothing wrong with our healthcare system before 0bama and his merry band of socialists destroyed it, and the architect of the lunacy, the infamous Gruber, admitted that it passed based on the 'stupidity of the American voter'. American healthcare & pharmaceuticals is responsible for where medical science is today, and it's based on capitalism. Money and competition spur innovations to ever greater heights, not socialist ideals.

That's why people the world over seek medical help in America when they can afford it, even when they have 'free' socialized medical programs in their own countries. Try to justify that.


Additionally, you have failed to explain how you're such a fan of socialism when you claim that you're a successful small business owner competing in a capitalist market. That's like a butcher advocating for veganism.

In my experience, the only ones that think socialist programs like welfare and government provided healthcare are great are those that are themselves welfare mooches OR a democrat politician getting re-elected by a voter base of welfare mooches in their district. It amounts to the same.

[NightTrain]

Isn't horny-ness the real pre-existing condition?

:eek:

I'm triggered.

[gabosaurus]

Isn't horny-ness the real pre-existing condition? :eek: According to the wisdom of our congressional delegation, pregnancy and childbirth are "elective" and "not exclusive to all" and the costs therefore shouldn't be shouldered by all American taxpayers. Of course, most of such members are male and have no clue. And they are doing a great service to the insurance and healthcare companies that they are beholden to.

[NightTrain]

According to the wisdom of our congressional delegation, pregnancy and childbirth are "elective" and "not exclusive to all" and the costs therefore shouldn't be shouldered by all American taxpayers. Of course, most of such members are male and have no clue. And they are doing a great service to the insurance and healthcare companies that they are beholden to.

In other words, you believe that you aren't responsible for your actions and everyone else should be responsible for you.

How quaint.

[pete311]

In other words, you believe that you aren't responsible for your actions and everyone else should be responsible for you.

How quaint.

So if your house is on fire, you are suggesting not calling 911 and try to put it out yourself with a garden hose?

[Black Diamond]

So if your house is on fire, you are suggesting not calling 911 and try to put it out yourself with a garden hose?
why would he do that when he is paying for it via taxes? I laugh when the left says people shouldn't use the things they pay for via taxes simply because they don't agree with the taxes.

[pete311]

why would he do that when he is paying for it via taxes? I laugh when the left says people shouldn't use the things they pay for via taxes simply because they don't agree with the taxes.

Same with healthcare

[Black Diamond]

Same with healthcare
No. Not when it costs people full time work, loads emergency rooms with "patients" with the sniffles, and skyrockets premiums and deductibles and the penalties are too low.

Obamacare isn't even good socialism.

[NightTrain]

So if your house is on fire, you are suggesting not calling 911 and try to put it out yourself with a garden hose?

My taxes go to Firefighters and Police and they respond when I need them. So far, though, I haven't made calls to either department.

But here you go, Petey. This is how that works - and harsh lesson applies to Health Insurance as well :

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39516346/ns/us_news-life/t/no-pay-no-spray-firefighters-let-home-burn/

See how simple it all is?

[pete311]

No. Not when it costs people full time work, loads emergency rooms with "patients" with the sniffles, and skyrockets premiums and deductibles and the penalties are too low.

Obamacare isn't even good socialism.

Cost does not determine what should be a right.

[pete311]

My taxes go to Firefighters and Police and they respond when I need them. So far, though, I haven't made calls to either department.

But here you go, Petey. This is how that works - and harsh lesson applies to Health Insurance as well :

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39516346/ns/us_news-life/t/no-pay-no-spray-firefighters-let-home-burn/

See how simple it all is?

Everyone pays some sort of taxes. Your taxes pay for other peoples services. What don't you understand about that. Where is the outrage. You are not ONLY paying for your fire and police coverage.

[Abbey Marie]

So if your house is on fire, you are suggesting not calling 911 and try to put it out yourself with a garden hose?

If my choice is the reason it is on fire, sure.

[pete311]

If my choice is the reason it is on fire, sure.
Your choice? Like insurance fraud?

[BoogyMan]

Cost does not determine what should be a right.

Where in the bill of rights do we find this Healthcare provision? Be detailed in your answer.

[Abbey Marie]

Your choice? Like insurance fraud?

Like in getting pregnant.

[pete311]

Where in the bill of rights do we find this Healthcare provision? Be detailed in your answer.

Where is the provision for fire, police, roads, k-12 edu etc etc etc

[aboutime]

Where is the provision for fire, police, roads, k-12 edu etc etc etc


Doesn't matter what the BILL OF RIGHTS say. The Constitution, with all of it's amendments are the deciding PROVISION for the interpretation of the Laws.

HEALTH CARE is NOT a Right. And because Fire, Police, Roads, and everything else are not mentioned....is determined by the LEGISLATURE...Which is why we have THREE branches of GOVERNMENT.

http://icansayit.com/images/billofrights.jpg

[SassyLady]

Pete .... I want my taxes, from MY hard earned money, to pay for services that benefit me... like Military, fire, police, etc. Paying for your health care does not benefit me. That is why I believe you should pay your own way for things that only benefit you.

[SassyLady]

Gabby ... housing, food, clothes, vehicles ... all of them increase in price. Should my taxes be raised because some people cannot afford these items?

It still baffles me why people believe I should give up what I've worked hard for just because they don't have it.

[pete311]

Pete .... I want my taxes, from MY hard earned money, to pay for services that benefit me... like Military, fire, police, etc. Paying for your health care does not benefit me. That is why I believe you should pay your own way for things that only benefit you.

How does your paying for my fire, police, roads, k-12 education, etc etc directly benefit you?

[Kathianne]

How does your paying for my fire, police, roads, k-12 education, etc etc directly benefit you?
We all benefit from having them, without 'the many' we couldn't afford to provide for ourselves. Now we 'all' benefit from the public schools-though any of us may not have children, not send our children to those schools-though we will pay to provide for their schooling. It's the reason that those that homeschool, send their kids to private schools, still have to pay school taxes. Same for police/fire, etc., we may not use them, but they are there should we need to.

I will never use or have access to your health care. OTOH, contrary to propaganda few want anyone to die because they are truly indigent. The bottom line though is that the type of health care one has is a matter of personal choice-often decided by other choices made.

[pete311]

We all benefit from having them, without 'the many' we couldn't afford to provide for ourselves.

We all benefit from a healthy community.



The bottom line though is that the type of health care one has is a matter of personal choice-often decided by other choices made.

hmmmm I'm a small business owner, home owner, married, volunteer weekly, world traveler and a few years ago I payed $20k out of pocket for a hernia operation that insurance wouldn't cover. Guess I somehow made a bad choice in my life somewhere.

[NightTrain]

We all benefit from a healthy community.

Show me an instance where the Government has provided more efficiency than the private sector.




hmmmm I'm a small business owner, home owner, married, volunteer weekly, world traveler and a few years ago I payed $20k out of pocket for a hernia operation that insurance wouldn't cover. Guess I somehow made a bad choice in my life somewhere.

Can't help noticing, Petey, that you're extremely reluctant to discuss your small business ownership. I wonder why that is?

[pete311]

Show me an instance where the Government has provided more efficiency than the private sector.


Great, where are you calls to privatize police, fire, k-12 edu, road work etc etc etc



Can't help noticing, Petey, that you're extremely reluctant to discuss your small business ownership. I wonder why that is?

I've mentioned I do freelance web development many times.

[NightTrain]

Great, where are you calls to privatize police, fire, k-12 edu, road work etc etc etc

Private Schools are universally accepted to be far superior to public schools. Road work is performed by contractors in the private sector.

You still haven't shown me even one instance where the Government has performed better than the private sector.

Or explained how socializing the greatest healthcare system in the world that pioneered the vast majority of medical breakthroughs benefiting all of mankind is going to continue progression in that field when you've removed the capitalist impetus driving such developments.



I've mentioned I do freelance web development many times.

So, you're not creating any jobs save for yourself with the occasional job building a webpage for someone, then, yes? I don't think it's very honest to present yourself as a Small Business Owner when you really should say that you're 'Self Employed'. Creating jobs so that others earn a wage, paytheir taxes and purchase their own health insurance is the general idea conveyed when saying you're a "small business owner".

In other words, you love the subsidies for your own benefit of your insurance by other taxpayers.

What other government teats do you partake of? I suspect there are more. Care to share?

[aboutime]

Great, where are you calls to privatize police, fire, k-12 edu, road work etc etc etc




I've mentioned I do freelance web development many times.



Big deal petey. I've been doing the same thing for more than 20 years. I have no employee's, and make no money. You sound like you were responsible for the FAILURE called OBAMACARE online. Take credit for that, and we can talk.

[pete311]

So, you're not creating any jobs save for yourself with the occasional job building a webpage for someone, then, yes? I don't think it's very honest to present yourself as a Small Business Owner when you really should say that you're 'Self Employed'. Creating jobs so that others earn a wage, paytheir taxes and purchase their own health insurance is the general idea conveyed when saying you're a "small business owner".


I've made six figures for the past 10 years and work with about a dozen contractors weekly. So yeah, guess I made an occasional webpage for someone. All this isn't really what this thread is about.

[aboutime]

I've made six figures for the past 10 years and work with about a dozen contractors weekly. So yeah, guess I made an occasional webpage for someone. All this isn't really what this thread is about.


And petey. Like it or not. Coming here to brag about your six figures hasn't done anything for your intelligence, or ability to get along with other people due to your selfish, arrogance that only impresses...YOU.

[pete311]

And petey. Like it or not. Coming here to brag about your six figures hasn't done anything for your intelligence, or ability to get along with other people due to your selfish, arrogance that only impresses...YOU.

:clap:

[NightTrain]

Great, where are you calls to privatize police, fire, k-12 edu, road work etc etc etc

Private Schools are universally accepted to be far superior to public schools. Road work is performed by contractors in the private sector.

You still haven't shown me even one instance where the Government has performed better than the private sector.

Or explained how socializing the greatest healthcare system in the world that pioneered the vast majority of medical breakthroughs benefiting all of mankind is going to continue progression in that field when you've removed the capitalist impetus driving such developments.

[SassyLady]

How does your paying for my fire, police, roads, k-12 education, etc etc directly benefit you?

I specifically said why should I pay for your health care.

The fact that I pay for fire, police and military that benefits me also directly benefits you even if you don't pay taxes. However, why should I pay for your health care when it does not benefit me.

[Gunny]

You're not hearing what I'm saying. I'm saying you already fund many welfare and social program and social services without outcry, but healthcare is where you draw you lines.

WHAT "outcry"? Burn down my neighborhood and vandalize cars as they drive by? Block traffic during rush hour carry some dumbass sign when people don't give a crap about my pointless protest and just want to get home? Oh. I know. I can write my Congressman and complain. There's a good half hour of my life I'll never get back.

The government takes our money to fund their goofy-ass BS and give themselves pay raises while accomplishing little to nothing. Now they want to tell us what to do with even MORE of they haven't already stolen.

Then most states take a chuck of your pay (TX, FL and AL do not have a state tax). And I know in VA you even have a city tax.

That money pays a bunch of lifer state and local government employees FIRST. Very little goes to infrastructure by the time it trickles down. We don't have a state tax here in TX, but they nickel and dime you to death with retail taxes and fines. If you live here and have never gotten a ticket, you don't drive.

And here's a good one concerning military retirees. The whole time we are on active duty we pay Federal income tax. When we retire, they tax our pay again. We get to pay twice on one check.

IU don't want to pay your bills. I'd be a LOT better off if I had put that money in my pocket or had it to invest over the years than anyone is with government's hands on it.