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View Full Version : Charlottesville A Strategic Mistake By The Alt-Right?



Kathianne
08-18-2017, 08:55 PM
Makes sense to me. The details might be a tad off, but the idea is rational. They were hoping to find the alternative to the left's, "You're racist":

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/450585/antifa-fascist-strategy-against-conservatives

The Fascists Were Using Antifa against Conservatives
Don’t fall for it.By Michael Brendan Dougherty — August 18, 2017
‘You must love Antifa, ya cuck.”


“Will you also condemn Antifa, BLM, and radical Muslims? I’m disappointed in you.”


It’s in reading these desperate social-media messages about violent left-wing protesters that I realized the true purpose of the tiki-torch ectomorph rally in Charlottesville. The “Unite the Right” rally had little to do with “defending” Confederate memorials, or any particular reading of southern history, however misguided. The designated speakers weren’t exactly kids who grew up learning how to give a rebel yell from Paw-Paw. Two of the billed speakers were anti-Semitic podcasters from New York; another fancies himself an American version of France’s Nouvelle Droite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouvelle_Droite). The Robert E. Lee statue was a MacGuffin — or, rather, he was Antifa bait, and the college town that it happened to be in was just a place where Antifa could be expected to swim. The organizers don’t want heritage, they wanted footage.


Really, what they wanted to do was to set a trap for conservatives. The explosive growth of Antifa during the 2016 campaign and since the election of Donald Trump has become a fixture in conservative media. Conservatives had warned that mainstream-media figures were summoning an awful thing into being by cheering on masked left-wingers who punched Nazis. Soon, anyone you wanted to punch would start looking like a Nazi.


Sure enough. Aggressive left-wing “direct action” started falling on conservative speakers on campus. And Antifa played the main role in shutting down speeches by Milo Yiannopoulos and Ann Coulter. Even if conservatives, of the type that wears loafers and bowties, had become used to holding Yiannopoulos and Coulter at arm’s length, the sight of left-wingers using violence and the threat of worse riots to shut them down caused some rallying effect.


The organizers of Unite the Right wanted to achieve the same thing for themselves. A spectacle would attract Antifa, who would predictably use violence. Some mainstream-media figures would endorse that violence, and some conservatives, they believed, would feel obliged to defend the ActualFascists because, hey, these left-wing mobs are attacking America’s legal and social norms of free speech. In other words, even if the assorted Jew-haters and fashy dorks can’t persuade conservatives to adopt a “no enemies to the right” posture, perhaps Antifa would.


And then one of these MAGA-fascists rammed his Dodge muscle car into peaceful protesters, killing a woman.


That fact scuttled the rally organizers’ talking point that it was Antifa or poor policing that initiated and caused all the violence. And it prevented conservatives from venturing the “both sides” argument that so swiftly blew up in President Trump’s face.


The murder of Heather Heyer was a revelation, and so too was the way that rally co-organizer Christopher Cantwell, met new (https://www.dailydot.com/debug/chris-cantwell-white-supremacist-banned-facebook/)s (https://www.dailydot.com/debug/chris-cantwell-white-supremacist-banned-facebook/) of her death — by sneering, “The fact that nobody on our side died, I’d go ahead and call that points for us.” At the exact moment Richard Spencer and his friends successfully recaptured the “alt-right” label from the so-called alt-light Gamergaters and other populists, it became stained in blood.


Still, the problem Charlottesville presents for the larger “alt-light” is serious. There seemed to be a real upside to cultivating a reputation as the edgiest and most transgressive political movement going. You’re free of the pieties that come from longer-lived movements. You look authentic, even fresh. And your stock goes up. But there’s an iron law at work here: As soon as anyone identifiably on the right gets the reward of attention for being transgressive, the Neo-Nazis swiftly show up, and the value of transgressive right-wing politics returns to its true value in America, near zero.


It was amusing to see Gavin McInnes disavo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8DhmEunckg&t=139s)w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8DhmEunckg&t=139s) the fiasco in Charlottesville. McInnes has cultivated a gang-like aura among his all-male fraternal organization, the Proud Boys. He and his group had dropped out of the rally once he got the vibe that it was going to turn into a “white power” thing. “I remember hearing William F. Buckley had to drum out the Nazis from National Review, and it didn’t sound like a big deal,” McInnes said in his recent video, “But when you do it, you realize how tedious it is.”


No kidding.


Most of the debate about Confederate monuments after Charlottesville has been a distraction. The rally organizers came prepared for violence, and they wanted it. They wanted footage of themselves getting punched and maced so that they could use conservative antipathy to Antifa to erode conservative antipathy to Actual Fascists. Don’t fall for it.

michiganFats
08-18-2017, 10:41 PM
I don't think it was a mistake from their point of view. They scored points with their base.

Kathianne
08-18-2017, 10:51 PM
I don't think it was a mistake from their point of view. They scored points with their base.

I suppose that would be correct. They stood up to those folks, what's one dead when you do that?

revelarts
08-18-2017, 10:53 PM
major backfire, minor victory.

Like terrorist attacks,
some poor souls will see it as "that's group's getting something DONE."
while most people will be appaled.

michiganFats
08-18-2017, 11:07 PM
I suppose that would be correct. They stood up to those folks, what's one dead when you do that?

That one death probably scored points with them.

Kathianne
08-18-2017, 11:10 PM
That one death probably scored points with them.

Well good on them then and their supporters. Trump figures there were some good folks there too. Both sides, though I find it difficult to believe there are any good antifa.

michiganFats
08-18-2017, 11:11 PM
Well good on them then and their supporters. Trump figures there were some good folks there too. Both sides, though I find it difficult to believe there are any good antifa.

And Trump was right. You're not painting everyone there with the same brush are you?

Kathianne
08-18-2017, 11:16 PM
And Trump was right. You're not painting everyone there with the same brush are you?

I'm pretty much of the mindset if I saw the march on Friday I'd conclude it wasn't about history. For sure if I showed up on Saturday, the writing was on the wall, before the blood was on the street.

The police though, no matter if the idiots are on the right or left, must be allowed to step in when any violence starts. You have the right to free speech, no matter how idiotic. You don't have the right to beat those you disagree with, at least without consequences.

michiganFats
08-18-2017, 11:29 PM
I'm pretty much of the mindset if I saw the march on Friday I'd conclude it wasn't about history. For sure if I showed up on Saturday, the writing was on the wall, before the blood was on the street.

The police though, no matter if the idiots are on the right or left, must be allowed to step in when any violence starts. You have the right to free speech, no matter how idiotic. You don't have the right to beat those you disagree with, at least without consequences.

I think you're speaking from hindsight.

Kathianne
08-18-2017, 11:31 PM
I think you're speaking from hindsight.

Hardly. You never walked into a party in high school and knew from the get go you needed to get out? Commonsense.

michiganFats
08-18-2017, 11:34 PM
Hardly. You never walked into a party in high school and knew from the get go you needed to get out? Commonsense.

I'm talking about the coverage of this. Over the last week it has moved from "there is a rally where some racists may attend" to "Nazis!".

Kathianne
08-18-2017, 11:40 PM
I'm talking about the coverage of this. Over the last week it has moved from "there is a rally where some racists may attend" to "Nazis!".

Umm, they call themselves neo-Nazis and supremacists. Not hard to figure out. They hate Jews, they hate blacks, they hate. If they are what they claim to be they also hate Catholics, those with birth defects, those not of their blood and deserving of the country's soil.

No, not good people.

michiganFats
08-18-2017, 11:41 PM
Umm, they call themselves neo-Nazis and supremacists. Not hard to figure out. They hate Jews, they hate blacks, they hate. If they are what they claim to be they also hate Catholics, those with birth defects, those not of their blood and deserving of the country's soil.

No, not good people.

Very true but the coverage went from claiming some of the people at that rally were those types to All of the people at that rally were those types, within one week.

Kathianne
08-18-2017, 11:45 PM
Very true but the coverage went from claiming some of the people at that rally were those types to All of the people at that rally were those types, within one week.

I think the reality hit with their Friday march, no? Blood and Soil, Jews must go, are dead giveaways.

michiganFats
08-18-2017, 11:46 PM
I think the reality hit with their Friday march, no? Blood and Soil, Jews must go, are dead giveaways.

I watched that video. I counted 14 people in it. I stand by what I said.

Kathianne
08-18-2017, 11:49 PM
I watched that video. I counted 14 people in it. I stand by what I said.

Ok.

Kathianne
08-18-2017, 11:54 PM
Not a huge group, but appears more than 7:

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10794&stc=1


http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10795&stc=1

michiganFats
08-19-2017, 12:01 AM
Not a huge group, but appears more than 7:

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10794&stc=1


http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10795&stc=1

I didn't see that one. That's still not 800 people.

revelarts
08-19-2017, 12:02 AM
https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/unitetheright-joinordie.jpg



"The above is a poster for the Charlottesville “Unite the Right” rally derived from Benjamin Franklin’s famous “Join, or Die” cartoon.The groups depicted include from left to right (K) “Kekistani,” (AC) “Anti-Communist,” (L) “Libertarian,” (N) “Nationalist,” (I) “Identitarian/Identity Evropa,” (SN) “Southern Nationalist,” (NS) “National Socialist,” and (AR) “Alt Right.” The National Socialist flags depicted include Traditionalist Worker Party and Vanguard America."

I'm not a fan of "the source" but this assessment looks accurate.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/08/12/flags-and-other-symbols-used-far-right-groups-charlottesville

michiganFats
08-19-2017, 12:03 AM
https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/unitetheright-joinordie.jpg



"The above is a poster for the Charlottesville “Unite the Right” rally derived from Benjamin Franklin’s famous “Join, or Die” cartoon.The groups depicted include from left to right (K) “Kekistani,” (AC) “Anti-Communist,” (L) “Libertarian,” (N) “Nationalist,” (I) “Identitarian/Identity Evropa,” (SN) “Southern Nationalist,” (NS) “National Socialist,” and (AR) “Alt Right.” The National Socialist flags depicted include Traditionalist Worker Party and Vanguard America."

I'm not a fan of "the source" but this assessment looks accurate.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/08/12/flags-and-other-symbols-used-far-right-groups-charlottesville

And how exactly are you determining that it looks accurate?

Kathianne
08-19-2017, 12:08 AM
I didn't see that one. That's still not 800 people.

I didn't say 800, haven't read any sources that did.

michiganFats
08-19-2017, 12:19 AM
I didn't say 800, haven't read any sources that did.

The rally by all accounts was about 800 people. You didn't show 800 people. Most there didn't take part in the Nazi bullshit.

Kathianne
08-19-2017, 03:52 AM
The rally by all accounts was about 800 people. You didn't show 800 people. Most there didn't take part in the Nazi bullshit.

I didn't see any number than the 14 you put up, which my tired brain saw as 7.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
08-19-2017, 07:24 AM
Makes sense to me. The details might be a tad off, but the idea is rational. They were hoping to find the alternative to the left's, "You're racist":

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/450585/antifa-fascist-strategy-against-conservatives

That point holds water only if, the organizers where in on it or had planned along with the car-crasher puke to deliberately run over and kill the opposition..
No evidence of such exists or was presented in the article by its author..
So in my opinion, it is no more than an imaginative false accusation, that serves a purpose to vilify and discredit any and all of the so-called alt-right.
Now besides fake news mushrooming every damn where, we have such tripe as this being presented as a genius observation/revelation..
My friend, with no evidence supporting the organizers were in on and accomplices in the insane bastard running over those innocent people, it is far more than a tad off, IMHO.
AS MY FATHER AND GRANDFATHER SO OFTEN WARNED ME TO BE AWARE OF, TOO OFT WHAT APPEARS TO BE A RATIONAL EXPLANATION FOR SOMETHING IS COMPLETELY OFF THE MARK..
ONLY TRUTH SERVES THAT PURPOSE.....

A DOG MAY HAVE THE LOOK OF THE BEST FIGHTING DOG IN THE WORLD BUT MEANS NOTHING IF IT IS NOT TRUE AND IF IT IS NEVER PROVEN.

NO TRUE CONSERVATIVE AGREES WITH WHAT THAT INSANE PUKE DID BY DRIVING INTO THOSE INNOCENT PEOPLE--FOR ITS EXACTLY WHAT THE MURDERING MUSLIMS DO..

A TRUE AND VALID POINT THAT NOT ONLY I HAVE POINTED OUT..

Vast majority roundly and soundly condemn it.. -TYR

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
08-19-2017, 07:28 AM
https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/unitetheright-joinordie.jpg



"The above is a poster for the Charlottesville “Unite the Right” rally derived from Benjamin Franklin’s famous “Join, or Die” cartoon.The groups depicted include from left to right (K) “Kekistani,” (AC) “Anti-Communist,” (L) “Libertarian,” (N) “Nationalist,” (I) “Identitarian/Identity Evropa,” (SN) “Southern Nationalist,” (NS) “National Socialist,” and (AR) “Alt Right.” The National Socialist flags depicted include Traditionalist Worker Party and Vanguard America."

I'm not a fan of "the source" but this assessment looks accurate.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/08/12/flags-and-other-symbols-used-far-right-groups-charlottesville

So much-- misinformation-- so little time.
False labels being applied to so many that object to the leftists/socialists/dems retaliatory actions since Trump won...

I dare not even try to list it all...

You could perhaps try to open that other eye my friend..-Tyr

High_Plains_Drifter
08-19-2017, 07:42 AM
https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/unitetheright-joinordie.jpg



"The above is a poster for the Charlottesville “Unite the Right” rally derived from Benjamin Franklin’s famous “Join, or Die” cartoon.The groups depicted include from left to right (K) “Kekistani,” (AC) “Anti-Communist,” (L) “Libertarian,” (N) “Nationalist,” (I) “Identitarian/Identity Evropa,” (SN) “Southern Nationalist,” (NS) “National Socialist,” and (AR) “Alt Right.” The National Socialist flags depicted include Traditionalist Worker Party and Vanguard America."

I'm not a fan of "the source" but this assessment looks accurate.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/08/12/flags-and-other-symbols-used-far-right-groups-charlottesville
Poster? I see a digital image, kind of like the supposed scan of an actual document claimed to be the certificate of birth for obama that they released online. That was fake too.