Hmmm

[Abbey Marie]

https://goo.gl/images/VpBjgUhttps://goo.gl/images/VpBjgUhttps://pics.me.me/george-orwell-1984-every-record-has-been-destroyed-or-falsified-27043237.png

[pete311]

History isn't recorded by monuments. Monuments are for commemoration. You lost the war, get over it. Does germany keep nazi statues around in parks?

[Kathianne]

History isn't recorded by monuments. Monuments are for commemoration. You lost the war, get over it. Does germany keep nazi statues around in parks?

No but they did keep some of the death camps, not for commemoration, but for reminders!

[pete311]

No but they did keep some of the death camps, not for commemoration, but for reminders!

Indeed and that is different. I have been to Auschwitz-Birkenau. Bone chilling place.

[Abbey Marie]

History isn't recorded by monuments. Monuments are for commemoration. You lost the war, get over it. Does germany keep nazi statues around in parks?


Pete, are you really this unable to comprehend anything outside the most literal things?

And what war did "I" lose? I can't wait to hear what you are insinuating I am.

[pete311]

Pete, are you really this unable to comprehend anything outside the most literal things?

And what war did "I" lose? I can't wait to hear what you are insinuating I am.

Someone who supports anything from the confederation being commemorated on public land.

[Kathianne]

Someone who supports anything from the confederation being commemorated on public land.

Just like beauty, it's all in the beholder. I've been to plenty of Civil War battle sites and cemeteries. Lots of memorials, statues, plaques. When I see Union, I think US. When it's Confederate, I think about the Union. All are to make us think and remember, the good and the bad.

It's up to us to educate, not presume everyone is as stupid, racist, and ignorant as Pete assumes.

With all that said, I personally haven't a problem of removal from public owned land onto private or into museum. Destruction of the sort going on now? No. Removal in the dark of night? No, talk about fascist appearing. Good lord.

[NightTrain]

Today, statues.

Tomorrow, books. Twain was a racist, you know. So was Washington.

And Jefferson! What about Monticello, which just happens to be in Charlottesville! Better burn em all.

History is offensive and must be purged from today's enlightened society.

[Black Diamond]

Today, statues.

Tomorrow, books. Twain was a racist, you know. So was Washington.

And Jefferson! What about Monticello, which just happens to be in Charlottesville! Better burn em all.

History is offensive and must be purged from today's enlightened society.
You sound like our bigoted president.

[pete311]

Today, statues.

Tomorrow, books. Twain was a racist, you know. So was Washington.

And Jefferson! What about Monticello, which just happens to be in Charlottesville! Better burn em all.

History is offensive and must be purged from today's enlightened society.

If you don't see the difference between the people you mentioned and confederate heroes who are only known for their slave war, then wow, the education system really has fucked up.

[Black Diamond]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10796&stc=1

[Black Diamond]

If you don't see the difference between the people you mentioned and confederate heroes who are only known for their slave war, then wow, the education system really has fucked up.
How about we ban the rainbow flag as it represents the war on marriage.

[pete311]

How about we ban the rainbow flag as it represents the war on marriage.

Hmmm yeah the war for equality is the same as a war for slavery, right...

[NightTrain]

You sound like our bigoted president.

:thanks:


Seriously, this whole thing is really stupid. The triggered snowflakes won't stop until all that's left are statues of Lenin.

Commemorating important figures in our history is good, even if they held values that we don't share today. If nothing else, it promotes discussion when passersby see it - like your typical family driving past and the kids ask who that statue of Robert E. Lee is and why does he have a statue.

Or Lincoln.

Or MLK.

Or Seattle's statue of Lenin.

What about Stalin's bust in VA at the D-Day Memorial?

It makes as much sense to remove these statues as it does burning books you don't personally agree with. Often these statues are a reminder of terrible events in our past, and like the person or not, they were a part of something important that we, as a supposedly-educated nation, need to study and learn from past mistakes leading to the event in question.

[Black Diamond]

Hmmm yeah the war for equality is the same as a war for slavery, right...
You misspelled perversion.

[pete311]

You misspelled perversion.

Guess what, you're losing

[NightTrain]

If you don't see the difference between the people you mentioned and confederate heroes who are only known for their slave war, then wow, the education system really has fucked up.

How long have you been in favor of book burnings?

[pete311]

:thanks:


Seriously, this whole thing is really stupid. The triggered snowflakes won't stop until all that's left are statues of Lenin.

Commemorating important figures in our history is good, even if they held values that we don't share today. If nothing else, it promotes discussion when passersby see it - like your typical family driving past and the kids ask who that statue of Robert E. Lee is and why does he have a statue.

Or Lincoln.

Or MLK.

Or Seattle's statue of Lenin.

What about Stalin's bust in VA at the D-Day Memorial?

It makes as much sense to remove these statues as it does burning books you don't personally agree with. Often these statues are a reminder of terrible events in our past, and like the person or not, they were a part of something important that we, as a supposedly-educated nation, need to study and learn from past mistakes leading to the event in question.

Good ideas, let's also put up a memorial statue of jeffrey dahmer, so we don't forget what he did and so it will spark questions. We have museums for a reason. They appropriately add context to the items.

[pete311]

How long have you been in favor of book burnings?

Never however, I would not support the public display of say the anarchist cookbook in a public park.

[NightTrain]

Good ideas, let's also put up a memorial statue of jeffrey dahmer, so we don't forget what he did and so it will spark questions. We have museums for a reason. They appropriately add context to the items.

I see.

So, Petey, do you have a shortlist of non-trigger historical persons that would be acceptable for everyone?

[pete311]

I see.

So, Petey, do you have a shortlist of non-trigger historical persons that would be acceptable for everyone?

Nope, but I'll call them when I see them.

[NightTrain]

Nope, but I'll call them when I see them.

In essence, we need to tear down absolutely every statue because it will offend someone. Snowflakery abounds.

Good luck with that.

[pete311]

In essence, we need to tear down absolutely every statue because it will offend someone. Snowflakery abounds.

Good luck with that.

Nope, as usual you are overreaching. Again, if you don't see the difference between george washington and general lee, well, what is your problem I guess.

[NightTrain]

Nope, as usual you are overreaching. Again, if you don't see the difference between george washington and general lee, well, what is your problem I guess.

Sorry, that won't fly, my obtuse moonbat friend. I know you read this because you replied to it :


Commemorating important figures in our history is good, even if they held values that we don't share today. If nothing else, it promotes discussion when passersby see it - like your typical family driving past and the kids ask who that statue of Robert E. Lee is and why does he have a statue.

Or Lincoln.

Or MLK.

Or Seattle's statue of Lenin.

What about Stalin's bust in VA at the D-Day Memorial?

It makes as much sense to remove these statues as it does burning books you don't personally agree with. Often these statues are a reminder of terrible events in our past, and like the person or not, they were a part of something important that we, as a supposedly-educated nation, need to study and learn from past mistakes leading to the event in question.

[Abbey Marie]

Someone who supports anything from the confederation being commemorated on public land.

1. Then you're ignorant
2. Just wait until the mob mentality affects you

[Abbey Marie]

Nope, but I'll call them when I see them.

How about that Dem darling FDR? Is he ok? Hint: Asians might disagree.

[michiganFats]

Nope, as usual you are overreaching. Again, if you don't see the difference between george washington and general lee, well, what is your problem I guess.

You have just hit the bullseye although I'm sure you didn't mean to.

There is very little difference between George Washington and Robert E. Lee. I think many people might say that Lee was by far the better human being of the two. Washington could not run for office today; He was a racist, elitist snob and by some contemporary accounts a very unpleasant man to be around. He also smoked pot, and grew it too. Actually, forget about running for office today, he'd probably be locked up in Supermax.

If an attack against the memory of Lee can be justified then an attack against Washington, or many of the Founding Fathers, can be justified without changing the reasoning.

[Black Diamond]

How about that Dem darling FDR? Is he ok? Hint: Asians might disagree.
I read recently he put a klansman on the court???

[Abbey Marie]

I read recently he put a klansman on the court???

I suppose with the party of Robert Byrd, anything is possible.

Speaking of which, any statues of him still around?

[NightTrain]

I suppose with the party of Robert Byrd, anything is possible.

Speaking of which, any statues of him still around?

Why, yes! Yes, there is.


Notice that no one has demanded that statues of former senator and KKK icon Robert Byrd be removed, statues honoring the hard-core former white nationalist whom Hillary Clinton once called her friend and mentor, including one prominently displayed in the West Virginia state capitol:

With the tearing down of confederate statues, removal of confederate flags, and the destruction of anything from America’s past that is controversial or downright deplorable, one statue has managed to escape scrutiny from protesters.


It involves a U.S. Senator from West Virginia. A prominent, highly successful member of the Democrat party. And a mentor to the woman who almost became President of the United States.


He also happens to be a former card-carrying member of the KKK. In fact, he created his own chapter along with 150 of his friends and colleagues.


Where is the outrage and destruction of this statue?

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10797&stc=1


That is former Senator Robert Byrd who was once elected a top officer – the Exalted Cyclops, whatever the hell that is – in the local Klan unit in the early 1940s.


He is a man who once vowed never to fight in the military along with “race mongrels” or “with a negro by my side.”


After his passing, Hillary Clinton eulogized Byrd in a 2010 video in which she called him “my friend and mentor.”

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/08/take_down_the_statues_of_robert_byrd.html

[Abbey Marie]

Race and party trump ALL.

[NightTrain]

How about that Dem darling FDR? Is he ok? Hint: Asians might disagree.

What about Truman? He nuked a whole lot of Japs.

[michiganFats]

What about Truman? He nuked a whole lot of Japs.

Black Lives Matter, the Japanese are on their own.

[Black Diamond]

What about Truman? He nuked a whole lot of Japs.
He....nipped it in the bud.


Lol.

[Kathianne]

If you don't see the difference between the people you mentioned and confederate heroes who are only known for their slave war, then wow, the education system really has fucked up.

and there are many that don't know what they are talking about, which is really f'd up.

I'm not defending the Confederacy, wouldn't dream of it. While there were multiple reasons for the start of it, it came back to 'protecting the way of life,' which depended on slavery. While most in the South didn't own slaves, what prosperity there was dependent on those who did.

However, to imply that they were just all lazy ass southerners, who'd have starved without slaves? Not so. Consider one of the prime targets of the statue controversy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee

Now that's fing wikipedia, read a biography of the man, get some f'ing education.

[Black Diamond]

and there are many that don't know what they are talking about, which is really f'd up.

I'm not defending the Confederacy, wouldn't dream of it. While there were multiple reasons for the start of it, it came back to 'protecting the way of life,' which depended on slavery. While most in the South didn't own slaves, what prosperity there was dependent on those who did.

However, to imply that they were just all lazy ass southerners, who'd have starved without slaves? Not so. Consider one of the prime targets of the statue controversy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee

Now that's fing wikipedia, read a biography of the man, get some f'ing education.
From a numbers perspective the south kicked the norths ass. Didn't sound too lazy to me.

[Kathianne]

From a numbers perspective the south kicked the norths ass. Didn't sound too lazy to me.

Very true. It's also true that some 'owners' were out of "Uncle Tom" and some were better. Doesn't excuse the institution, yet we are all creatures of our times. Someday in the future, there is some version of ourselves that won't believe that some XXXX. What we can't imagine being condemned for. It's the nature of humans.

We've lost the concept of context within history. Look back at ancient times, yet what we stand in awe of is just how much they accomplished and pushed forth with philosophy, math, rudimentary science to get us on the path towards the Renaissance and Enlightenment, not too mention the Constitution. Yet during those times, only a few men were 'free' and educated in the ways of the times. Most were slaves.

[jimnyc]

And if these monuments are such an issue and they are and always were racist - then why weren't they racist for the past 8 years? Odd.

Some others have outrage - but they didn't always. Also odd.

http://i.imgur.com/LMTPXih.png

http://i.imgur.com/RPYKbUT.png

Even 'ol Kanye was rocking the flag not too awfully long ago.

http://i.imgur.com/5ChUekM.png

[Black Diamond]

Well those are things you don't see every day.

[aboutime]

History isn't recorded by monuments. Monuments are for commemoration. You lost the war, get over it. Does germany keep nazi statues around in parks?

Geez petey. You really are a glutton for punishment, aren't you? Do you enjoy coming here to show everyone how ABSOLUTELY STUPID you are?

[pete311]

And if these monuments are such an issue and they are and always were racist - then why weren't they racist for the past 8 years? Odd.

Some others have outrage - but they didn't always. Also odd.

http://i.imgur.com/LMTPXih.png

http://i.imgur.com/RPYKbUT.png

Even 'ol Kanye was rocking the flag not too awfully long ago.

http://i.imgur.com/5ChUekM.png

These are 3 people not to be taken seriously. I know you don't.

Here is the background story
http://www.thedailybeast.com/why-rappers-rock-the-confederate-flag-from-outkast-to-kanye-wests-merchandise

[jimnyc]

These are 3 people not to be taken seriously. I know you don't.

Here is the background story
http://www.thedailybeast.com/why-rappers-rock-the-confederate-flag-from-outkast-to-kanye-wests-merchandise

I don't take them seriously as "people", but it goes to show how the flag, and these monuments, weren't at this frenzy crazy racist point that they just HAD to come down. I'm also sure that Nugent, Skynrd, Alabama and a shitload of other southern rock bands have a background story for the southern heritage as well.

There was a ton of more examples, even from Hillary and others using them in the past in their dang election pins and such. And now today, folks are pointed at as the worst of the worst racists and what not for having anything like it. Vandalism is out of control around the country. I understand if folks don't like them, but the stealing of them, spray painting those houses and other vandalism needs to stop.

[Abbey Marie]

Very true. It's also true that some 'owners' were out of "Uncle Tom" and some were better. Doesn't excuse the institution, yet we are all creatures of our times. Someday in the future, there is some version of ourselves that won't believe that some XXXX. What we can't imagine being condemned for. It's the nature of humans.

We've lost the concept of context within history. Look back at ancient times, yet what we stand in awe of is just how much they accomplished and pushed forth with philosophy, math, rudimentary science to get us on the path towards the Renaissance and Enlightenment, not too mention the Constitution. Yet during those times, only a few men were 'free' and educated in the ways of the times. Most were slaves.


I think someday we may actually be (rightly) horrified that we once aborted babies in utero.

[Black Diamond]

I think someday we may we may actually be (rightly) horrified that we once aborted babies in utero.
Yikes.

[Kathianne]

I think someday we may we may actually be (rightly) horrified that we once aborted babies in utero.

"We" didn't. I can see it as a horror allowed in an time of questionable morality.

[BoogyMan]

Hmmm yeah the war for equality is the same as a war for slavery, right...

The French, architects of the Statue of Liberty, brutalized the Japanese for years. Should be tear down the Statue of Liberty? Contextual angst is a political tool for the weak minded and nothing more.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

The French, architects of the Statue of Liberty, brutalized the Japanese for years. Should be tear down the Statue of Liberty? Contextual angst is a political tool for the weak minded and nothing more.
Pete purports to be a 34 year old that hates politics, but yet he comes here and spews ardent support for everything left.

I believe his public schooling indoctrination is still very fresh in his mind, and he sounds more like he's 15 than 34.