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Bilgerat
08-20-2017, 08:42 PM
The 7th fleet has had another incident

The USS John McCain has collided with a merchant ship near the Straits of Malacca.

Initial reports indicate damage to her port side, aft.

And another CO bites the dust :crossbones:

aboutime
08-20-2017, 09:14 PM
I just saw that story reported locally. TWO ships within two weeks, in the same area of operations??

Seventh Fleet seems to have a major problem with junior officers becoming the CO of such highly technical ships like the McCain.

Here's the Local tv report:

170614-N-DL434-064 PHILIPPINE SEA (June 14, 2017) The Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS John S. McCain (DDG 56) maneuvers alongside the amphibious assault ship USS Bonhomme Richard (LHD 6) for a refueling-at-sea. Bonhomme Richard is the flagship of its expeditionary strike group, operating in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region to serve as a forward-capability for any type of contingency. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist Seaman Apprentice Gavin Shields/Released)
<img src="https://lintvwavy.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/web_170614-n-dl434-064.jpg">
SOUTH CHINA SEA (WAVY) – The Navy is saying that the USS John S. McCain was involved with a collision with a merchant vessel on Monday morning.

According to the Navy, the collision was reported at 6:24 a.m., Japan Standard Time, east of Singapore and the Strait of Malacca. The collision happened as the ship was heading to a routine port visit in Singapore.

Initial reports are out that the McCain suffered damage port side. The ship is currently sailing under its own power and heading to port.

Search and rescue efforts are underway.

High_Plains_Drifter
08-20-2017, 09:41 PM
I was wondering myself how a state of the art ship with enough high tech equipment on board to know where everything afloat around it for 100 miles is, COLLIDES with another ship. I mean WTF... does it have something to do with it being the "McCain?" ... :rolleyes:

michiganFats
08-20-2017, 09:54 PM
Is it possible merchant ships are deliberately ramming our ships? I was Army so this is a serious question because I'm not familiar with Naval capabilities but I don't believe in coincidence.

aboutime
08-20-2017, 11:05 PM
Is it possible merchant ships are deliberately ramming our ships? I was Army so this is a serious question because I'm not familiar with Naval capabilities but I don't believe in coincidence.

Can't be sure since I don't know what actually took place there. But I do know. That area of the World, where they were getting ready to enter port...is almost like driving on the BELTWAY around Washington, D.C. at rush hour. There are hundreds of ships entering, and leaving port there. It took place in Morning daylight...early. So I suspect SOMEBODY wasn't paying attention to what was going on. That hour of the morning is around breakfast, and watches were probably being relieved for chow, and bringing up SPECIAL SEA DETAIL members to the bridge, CIC, and lookouts.

Just my guess, but I do suspect too much reliance on ELECTRONICS, and COMPUTERS.

People tend to get lazy when things are automatic.

Black Diamond
08-21-2017, 12:40 AM
I was wondering myself how a state of the art ship with enough high tech equipment on board to know where everything afloat around it for 100 miles is, COLLIDES with another ship. I mean WTF... does it have something to do with it being the "McCain?" ... :rolleyes:
i wasn't gonna go there but...

:lol:

michiganFats
08-21-2017, 12:55 AM
Is there a USS Grahamnesty?

And if there is, was it trying to lick the McCain's propellers?

Bilgerat
08-21-2017, 12:52 PM
Is there a USS Grahamnesty?

And if there is, was it trying to lick the McCain's propellers?


The Officers of the USS Grahamnesty



https://scontent-mia3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20914333_1445143245569220_7891219088888300099_n.jp g?oh=b602d50e436f47a613bae76ef080464d&oe=5A26CBF1

Kathianne
08-21-2017, 05:12 PM
Anyone wondering if there's a bit too much of this going on? Could it be some type of hacking by China or Russia?

High_Plains_Drifter
08-21-2017, 05:23 PM
Anyone wondering if there's a bit too much of this going on? Could it be some type of hacking by China or Russia?
Ya know... it looks a lot to me like the American ship was rammed. Same with the last one.

Why would the US Navy hide that if that's true.

aboutime
08-21-2017, 05:27 PM
Ya know... it looks a lot to me like the American ship was rammed. Same with the last one.

Why would the US Navy hide that if that's true.


High_Plain_Drifter. Truth is...despite any denials from politicians. ANY KIND OF ATTACK on a U.S. Navy ship, plane, vehicle, building is..IN REALITY, and act of War, and an attack on the Property of the United States.

Remember the U.S.S. Cole? And others from the past. Those attacks were acts of WAR.
Clinton, and Obama did nothing but hold court cases. I do think Trump will do something different when he learns THE TRUTH.

High_Plains_Drifter
08-21-2017, 05:32 PM
High_Plain_Drifter. Truth is...despite any denials from politicians. ANY KIND OF ATTACK on a U.S. Navy ship, plane, vehicle, building is..IN REALITY, and act of War, and an attack on the Property of the United States.

Remember the U.S.S. Cole? And others from the past. Those attacks were acts of WAR.
Clinton, and Obama did nothing but hold court cases. I do think Trump will do something different when he learns THE TRUTH.
I agree, pard.

Do you think it looks like they were rammed?

Gunny
08-21-2017, 07:10 PM
The 7th fleet has had another incident

The USS John McCain has collided with a merchant ship near the Straits of Malacca.

Initial reports indicate damage to her port side, aft.

And another CO bites the dust :crossbones:My guess would be the ship manages the Straight as its namesake flew :).

aboutime
08-21-2017, 07:20 PM
I agree, pard.

Do you think it looks like they were rammed?

From the angle, aft, port side. I'd say probably intentional. But I'll wait for a somewhat...Official statement (without redactions) from Seventh Fleet.
Seems like too much of a coincidence; HOWEVER. The Straits of Mallacca are known to be some of the most heavily traveled, often jammed waterways all year round.
Navigation in that area is dangerous all the time, much like near Sicily, in the Straits of Messina between the Toe of Italy. It's narrow, windy, and currents are terrible.
STILL...no excuse for such a Modern, Highly technical ship PAYING ATTENTION.

michiganFats
08-22-2017, 07:50 AM
From the angle, aft, port side. I'd say probably intentional. But I'll wait for a somewhat...Official statement (without redactions) from Seventh Fleet.
Seems like too much of a coincidence; HOWEVER. The Straits of Mallacca are known to be some of the most heavily traveled, often jammed waterways all year round.
Navigation in that area is dangerous all the time, much like near Sicily, in the Straits of Messina between the Toe of Italy. It's narrow, windy, and currents are terrible.
STILL...no excuse for such a Modern, Highly technical ship PAYING ATTENTION.

Just to be sure what you're saying, if the Captain had been paying attention then the ship would not have been in a collision even if someone were trying to hit them?

Kathianne
08-22-2017, 09:07 AM
Not surprised, seems this bears looking into:

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2017/08/22/is-someone-hacking-our-7th-fleet-navy-to-investigate-after-uss-john-s-mccain-collision.html


Is someone hacking our 7th Fleet? Navy to investigate after USS John S McCain collision

By Edmund DeMarche (http://www.foxnews.com/person/d/edmund-demarche.html)<time class="date" pubdate="" datetime="2017-08-22T23:43:00.000-04:00" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 0px 20px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; clear: none; float: left; position: relative;">Published August 22, 2017</time>



A top U.S. Navy admiral on Monday called for a swift and thorough investigation into Monday's collision of the USS John S. McCain into an oil tanker near Singapore-- marking the second deadly mishap that occurred in the Pacific in the past three months.

Adm. John Richardson ordered an operational pause in all the fleets around the world while the Navy works to determine the factors behind the collision. Richardson tweeted that the Navy will conduct a wide investigation, including a review into the possibility of "cyber intrusion or sabotage."

Adm. Phil Davidson, the head of the Navy's Fleet Forces, will lead the investigation.

Richardson made clear that there is no evidence of a hacking at this point, but some cyber experts have raised to possiblity given the location of the warships.

Jeff Stutzman, an ex-information warfare specialist in the Navy who works at a cyber threat intelligence company, told McClatchy that “there’s something more than just human error going on."

...
<twitterwidget class="twitter-tweet twitter-tweet-rendered" id="twitter-widget-1" data-tweet-id="899466340238491648" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 10px auto; position: static; visibility: visible; display: block; transform: rotate(0deg); max-width: 100%; width: 500px; min-width: 220px;">

(https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump)






</twitterwidget>

aboutime
08-22-2017, 03:36 PM
Just to be sure what you're saying, if the Captain had been paying attention then the ship would not have been in a collision even if someone were trying to hit them?

No, not actually. As surprising as it may sound. The CO (captain) doesn't spend all of his/her time on the bridge paying attention. There are watch standers on the bridge, 24/7 with the OOD (Officer of the Deck) performing the navigation, control duties IN PLACE OF THE CO. And several other enlisted/officer types may be there during all hours.
During SPECIAL SEA DETAIL (entering and leaving port) the personnel are doubled with lookouts, navigation, taking bearings etc. Overall, the CO is totally responsible for EVERYTHING that takes place, even if not on the bridge (in the pilot house).
BOTTOM LINE....I suspect, somebody on watch...wasn't paying attention. As I said before. At that time of the morning, watch standers are going to chow, getting relieved, and changing watchstanders for the next 4 HOUR watch.
We need to wait for the details in order to know...what, and why it happened.

michiganFats
08-22-2017, 03:42 PM
No, not actually. As surprising as it may sound. The CO (captain) doesn't spend all of his/her time on the bridge paying attention. There are watch standers on the bridge, 24/7 with the OOD (Officer of the Deck) performing the navigation, control duties IN PLACE OF THE CO. And several other enlisted/officer types may be there during all hours.
During SPECIAL SEA DETAIL (entering and leaving port) the personnel are doubled with lookouts, navigation, taking bearings etc. Overall, the CO is totally responsible for EVERYTHING that takes place, even if not on the bridge (in the pilot house).
BOTTOM LINE....I suspect, somebody on watch...wasn't paying attention. As I said before. At that time of the morning, watch standers are going to chow, getting relieved, and changing watchstanders for the next 4 HOUR watch.
We need to wait for the details in order to know...what, and why it happened.

Well alrighty then, I think they were rammed.

aboutime
08-22-2017, 03:50 PM
Well alrighty then, I think they were rammed.

I'd have to agree with you on that. I also know that area is really crowded with ships, and other smaller craft who don't usually care about RULES OF THE ROAD. We'll see.

Bilgerat
09-07-2017, 11:05 AM
Well this is bad.




US Navy says most 7th Fleet warships lacked proper certification


WASHINGTON – The majority of ships operating in the U.S. Navy’s Seventh Fleet, where two destroyers have been involved in fatal collisions since June, weren’t certified to conduct basic operations at sea related to war-fighting, according to U.S. Navy records.

As of late June, eight of the 11 cruisers and destroyers in the Seventh Fleet, and their crew members, weren’t certified by the U.S. Navy to conduct “mobility seamanship,” or basic steering of the ship, according to U.S. Navy records provided to two House Armed Services subcommittees.

The Navy also said that seven of those ships had expired training certification in the areas of cruise missile defense and surface warfare, which test a crew’s ability to defend a ship or to conduct attacks.

More: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/07/us-navy-says-most-7th-fleet-warships-lacked-proper-certification.html

revelarts
09-07-2017, 11:40 AM
Not surprised, seems this bears looking into:

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2017/08/22/is-someone-hacking-our-7th-fleet-navy-to-investigate-after-uss-john-s-mccain-collision.html
<twitterwidget class="twitter-tweet twitter-tweet-rendered" id="twitter-widget-1" data-tweet-id="899466340238491648" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 10px auto; position: static; visibility: visible; display: block; transform: rotate(0deg); max-width: 100%; width: 500px; min-width: 220px;"> </twitterwidget>

https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/north-korea-kim-jong-un-computer-640x360.jpg

Gunny
09-07-2017, 03:33 PM
https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/north-korea-kim-jong-un-computer-640x360.jpgNote the position of his fat little hands. Those guards are there to ensure he doesn't even touch the keyboard.

Look at all his propaganda pics and footage. He looks at all times like a dumbass 5 years old at Disneyworld for the 1st time. He just ooh's and ah's with a blamk stare on his ugly fat mug.

SassyLady
09-07-2017, 03:55 PM
Well this is bad.




US Navy says most 7th Fleet warships lacked proper certification


WASHINGTON – The majority of ships operating in the U.S. Navy’s Seventh Fleet, where two destroyers have been involved in fatal collisions since June, weren’t certified to conduct basic operations at sea related to war-fighting, according to U.S. Navy records.

As of late June, eight of the 11 cruisers and destroyers in the Seventh Fleet, and their crew members, weren’t certified by the U.S. Navy to conduct “mobility seamanship,” or basic steering of the ship, according to U.S. Navy records provided to two House Armed Services subcommittees.

The Navy also said that seven of those ships had expired training certification in the areas of cruise missile defense and surface warfare, which test a crew’s ability to defend a ship or to conduct attacks.

More: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/07/us-navy-says-most-7th-fleet-warships-lacked-proper-certification.html

:omg:

aboutime
09-07-2017, 04:45 PM
Well this is bad.




US Navy says most 7th Fleet warships lacked proper certification


WASHINGTON – The majority of ships operating in the U.S. Navy’s Seventh Fleet, where two destroyers have been involved in fatal collisions since June, weren’t certified to conduct basic operations at sea related to war-fighting, according to U.S. Navy records.

As of late June, eight of the 11 cruisers and destroyers in the Seventh Fleet, and their crew members, weren’t certified by the U.S. Navy to conduct “mobility seamanship,” or basic steering of the ship, according to U.S. Navy records provided to two House Armed Services subcommittees.

The Navy also said that seven of those ships had expired training certification in the areas of cruise missile defense and surface warfare, which test a crew’s ability to defend a ship or to conduct attacks.

More: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/07/us-navy-says-most-7th-fleet-warships-lacked-proper-certification.html


Bilge. Nobody should be surprised with this kind of announcement. Due to the Obama Sequestration that robbed billions from the Military. The costly RE-CERT of ships, and crews were probably set back, or delayed by the actions of what China, and North Korea were doing in the Northern Pacific.
Actually, the certifications are nearly pure Administrative actions that ORI's (operational Readiness Inspections) generally perform following a ship's YARD upkeep where the crew has been turned over, or changed due to time.
Anyone who thinks they are AMATEURS on those ships, and unable to operate, probably have no idea what they are talking about.
Squadron Commanders are in charge of assuring Captains, and Crews of their ships are in all respects... ready for sea. In fact. If a ship is found to have TOO FEW crewmembers onboard. Squadron commanders collect crewmembers from other ships that are inport, or in stand-downs for yard periods to replace the people on deploying ships.
Guess my 30 years of duty taught me something? Huh?

Gunny
09-07-2017, 08:26 PM
Bilge. Nobody should be surprised with this kind of announcement. Due to the Obama Sequestration that robbed billions from the Military. The costly RE-CERT of ships, and crews were probably set back, or delayed by the actions of what China, and North Korea were doing in the Northern Pacific.
Actually, the certifications are nearly pure Administrative actions that ORI's (operational Readiness Inspections) generally perform following a ship's YARD upkeep where the crew has been turned over, or changed due to time.
Anyone who thinks they are AMATEURS on those ships, and unable to operate, probably have no idea what they are talking about.
Squadron Commanders are in charge of assuring Captains, and Crews of their ships are in all respects... ready for sea. In fact. If a ship is found to have TOO FEW crewmembers onboard. Squadron commanders collect crewmembers from other ships that are inport, or in stand-downs for yard periods to replace the people on deploying ships.
Guess my 30 years of duty taught me something? Huh?I had to question that number myself. I hated you squids during work ups (certification). What a bunch of humorless pr*cks. :laugh:

aboutime
09-07-2017, 08:55 PM
I had to question that number myself. I hated you squids during work ups (certification). What a bunch of humorless pr*cks. :laugh:

Gunny. We didn't like it either. On the East Coast, most of our Refresher Training took place...in of all places...GUANTANIMO, CUBA. It was usually a two, or three week period where EVERY job, machine, trick, accident, rescue, and ship engineering drill was held EVERY DAY. Not sure about the West Coast ships, or where they got Reftra, but when the money was squeezed by Obama...something had to fall by the wayside.
Sad thing was. The Obama Sequester was designed to HURT the military, and it did.

Gunny
09-08-2017, 10:46 AM
Gunny. We didn't like it either. On the East Coast, most of our Refresher Training took place...in of all places...GUANTANIMO, CUBA. It was usually a two, or three week period where EVERY job, machine, trick, accident, rescue, and ship engineering drill was held EVERY DAY. Not sure about the West Coast ships, or where they got Reftra, but when the money was squeezed by Obama...something had to fall by the wayside.
Sad thing was. The Obama Sequester was designed to HURT the military, and it did.The workups we did were 3 10-day workups prior to deployment. If we got "lucky", we got a 30-day RIMPAC as bonus.

We would board, and do our own workups. GOPlat's, VBSS, Amphib assault. endless weapons checks, drills, the usual BS. Y'all were already on board and pissed at us before we got there . Like you were doing us a favor:laugh:.

We had to certify Special Operations Capable (SOC) before we could deploy. But EVERYONE was pissy during quals. And the Capt and CO didn't care WHO was f-ing up. We ALL got to do it again. Like you said in another thread, a part of me misses it but just a part :). I met some serious characters over the years. I also remember the OP's couldn't wait to drive the boat, or something like that, looking for their Surface Warfare badges.

It's just the Navy's turn. I remember them grounding the entire Marine Corps because a couple of A-10s fell out of the sky in Yuma. The way the media played it you'd have thought we were doing it on purpose.

Bilgerat
09-22-2017, 06:00 PM
Navy Will Bring Back Maneuvering Boards


Vice Admiral Thomas Rowden, the commander of U.S. naval surface forces, announced Wednesday that the service will implement common standing orders for bridge and engineering watchstanders across the fleet. Rowden said that the orders will accommodate variations in vessel-specific equipment, but they will "provide common business rules for all bridge [and combat information center] watchstanders."

(I guess the old ways have merit after all

https://maritime-executive.com/article/rowden-navy-will-bring-back-maneuvering-boards

aboutime
09-22-2017, 06:14 PM
Navy Will Bring Back Maneuvering Boards


Vice Admiral Thomas Rowden, the commander of U.S. naval surface forces, announced Wednesday that the service will implement common standing orders for bridge and engineering watchstanders across the fleet. Rowden said that the orders will accommodate variations in vessel-specific equipment, but they will "provide common business rules for all bridge [and combat information center] watchstanders."

(I guess the old ways have merit after all

https://maritime-executive.com/article/rowden-navy-will-bring-back-maneuvering-boards


Bilge. Agreed. Unless all of the quartermasters, and bridge watchstanders have actual training at navigation, rules of the road, and procedures for at sea operations. I suspect dependence on ELECTRONICS to do Everything will bring us more accidents like the McCain, and others. COMPLACENT sailors, tired sailors...and Officers who depend on the Power Always being there...can expect to fail, at least once. And that ONCE could be fatal.
As a former radioman. I learned, before I retired, that too much dependence on new, modern ways to communicate...can, and usually will...fail. Satellites and GPS from Satellites should never replace...AGE OLD METHODS.