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hjmick
09-24-2017, 12:29 PM
Apparently, in an effort to avoid controversy(?), the Steelers will be opting to remain in the locker room during the national anthem today...


BALTIMORE (WJZ)– The Pittsburgh Steelers will not take the field during the national anthem Sunday after a series of comments made by President Donald Trump, according to CBS Sports...

Steelers coach Mike Tomlin told CBS Sports that the team will not participate in the national anthem prior to Sunday’s game against the Bears in Chicago. The Steelers will remain in the locker room.


Pittsburgh Steelers To Remain Inside Locker Room During National Anthem (http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2017/09/24/pittsburgh-steelers-to-remain-inside-during-national-anthem/)


Now, I support their right to do this, though I do not agree with the decision. Personally, I think it is far more disrespectful than taking a knee on the sideline.

So the question is, which approach is more disrespectful to your mind? Taking a knee or not appearing at all?

Black Diamond
09-24-2017, 12:35 PM
Will any player disobey tomlin and come out to respect the flag?

pete311
09-24-2017, 12:38 PM
This is all a calculated distraction once again from Trump. Dude just can't help himself.

Black Diamond
09-24-2017, 12:39 PM
This is all a calculated distraction once again from Trump. Dude just can't help himself.
You just contradicted yourself in one sentence. That's talent.

pete311
09-24-2017, 12:46 PM
You just contradicted yourself in one sentence. That's talent.

nice try, but nope, the impulse was the need for distraction, the calculation was finding the right distraction.

Black Diamond
09-24-2017, 12:49 PM
nice try, but nope, the impulse was the need for distraction, the calculation was finding the right distraction.
I can't help but plan this murder.

Black Diamond
09-24-2017, 01:02 PM
Tomlin says he did it for team unity.

http://www.sportingnews.com/amp/nfl/news/pittsburgh-steelers-national-anthem-locker-room-mike-tomlin/3hrz5wcmuui21tg8efyoe4uv4

still wonder if anyone will disobey him.

Bilgerat
09-24-2017, 01:05 PM
So the whining Pittsburgh Squealers will stay in the locker room during the playing of the National Anthem.

Good, let the losers whine.

pete311
09-24-2017, 01:36 PM
So the whining Pittsburgh Squealers will stay in the locker room during the playing of the National Anthem.

Good, let the losers whine.

Losers lol. These guys are at the peak physical condition making millions. Who are the losers? They laugh at you as they enter their mansions.

Abbey
09-24-2017, 02:39 PM
Villanueva apparently came out and stood for the anthem by himself. This guy is awesome.

Gunny
09-24-2017, 02:42 PM
Losers lol. These guys are at the peak physical condition making millions. Who are the losers? They laugh at you as they enter their mansions.Who laughs when you get to Heaven without a soul?

Bilgerat
09-24-2017, 03:19 PM
Villanueva apparently came out and stood for the anthem by himself. This guy is awesome.


I saw that he did.

THERE's a man with honor.

Black Diamond
09-24-2017, 04:03 PM
Losers lol. These guys are at the peak physical condition making millions. Who are the losers? They laugh at you as they enter their mansions.
Most of them will have burned through their fortunes within 3 years of retiring. So yeah. Losers.

pete311
09-24-2017, 04:09 PM
Most of them will have burned through their fortunes within 3 years of retiring. So yeah. Losers.

Sound like a better life than wasting it away in this cesspool day after day.

Bilgerat
09-24-2017, 04:47 PM
Sound like a better life than wasting it away in this cesspool day after day.


https://giphy.com/gifs/l3vR2mv6bOy0Vk1LG/html5

High_Plains_Drifter
09-24-2017, 05:21 PM
Sound like a better life than wasting it away in this cesspool day after day.
And what cesspool is that?

Abbey
09-24-2017, 06:20 PM
Most of them will have burned through their fortunes within 3 years of retiring. So yeah. Losers.

Love your Avatar

Bilgerat
09-24-2017, 07:41 PM
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22045680_1637695566277125_731803127497552475_n.jpg ?oh=e7c4fde40c9a511338fec7b6661cfb38&oe=5A4C9150

aboutime
09-24-2017, 08:30 PM
Sound like a better life than wasting it away in this cesspool day after day.



Right again petey. If you weren't here. There'd be no CESSPOOL problems to waste your life in.

Black Diamond
09-24-2017, 10:47 PM
Love your Avatar

least I could do...

Black Diamond
09-25-2017, 01:28 AM
Tomlin said he didn't want Alejandro Villanueva to stand; that he wanted 100% participation from his team.

https://trib.al/MMdwYeK

CSM
09-25-2017, 08:02 AM
Losers lol. These guys are at the peak physical condition making millions. Who are the losers? They laugh at you as they enter their mansions.

So being in peak physical condition and making a lot of money is your definition of success (or "not a loser" at the very least)? Interesting. I guess a soldier at peak physical condition but NOT with a lot of money is a "half-loser" as is some of the Hollywood elite who have a lot of money but not at peak physical condition (ala Michael Moore). I submit that there may be a lot more to the definition of "loser" than the amount of money or physical conditioning of an individual.

pete311
09-25-2017, 08:22 AM
So being in peak physical condition and making a lot of money is your definition of success (or "not a loser" at the very least)? Interesting. I guess a soldier at peak physical condition but NOT with a lot of money is a "half-loser" as is some of the Hollywood elite who have a lot of money but not at peak physical condition (ala Michael Moore). I submit that there may be a lot more to the definition of "loser" than the amount of money or physical conditioning of an individual.

Totally agree and silent protesting is not part of that definition.

Black Diamond
09-25-2017, 12:16 PM
So being in peak physical condition and making a lot of money is your definition of success (or "not a loser" at the very least)? Interesting. I guess a soldier at peak physical condition but NOT with a lot of money is a "half-loser" as is some of the Hollywood elite who have a lot of money but not at peak physical condition (ala Michael Moore). I submit that there may be a lot more to the definition of "loser" than the amount of money or physical conditioning of an individual.
It dawned on me earlier today that many prisoners are in prime shape.

Gunny
09-25-2017, 12:43 PM
Sound like a better life than wasting it away in this cesspool day after day.Leave. Take anyone that doesn't respect the Nation that provides the easiest life in the world with you. But y'all won't put your money where your mouth is, will you? You'd rather whine. It's all y'all know how to do. Everyone listen to me. My country won't let me sit on my ass at home and do nothing while providing me a life of luxury. I have to work and earn my pay just like white people. I am entitled to more just because I suck oxygen away from otherwise useful people that actually contribute to the society I suck off of. And now I got pampered athlestes who damned sure aren't giving me their pay protesting on my behalf. Wah-fucking-wah. Again ... go somewhere better and get off my tax dime.

And while I'm at it for anyone that for some reasons thinks MY opinion and/or Right to free speech is somehow lesser than some whiny shit's ... I didn't start the shit. I didn't start shit over fags marrying either but when it got pushed, I voted that marriage was between a man and a woman.

On this one ... Accuse me of being a Marine and call me guilty. Get off your fat ass and show some damned respect for something someone else earned for your crybaby ass.

Black Diamond
09-25-2017, 02:38 PM
Never thought I would be applauding Jerry Jones.

Gunny
09-25-2017, 03:10 PM
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2017/09/25/the-truth-about-what-jerry-jones-said-regarding-the-nfl-national-anthem/

Black Diamond
09-25-2017, 03:21 PM
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2017/09/25/the-truth-about-what-jerry-jones-said-regarding-the-nfl-national-anthem/
I kinda think it's an unwritten rule in the organization.

Black Diamond
09-25-2017, 03:27 PM
Villanueva jersey up to $330 in eBay.

Gunny
09-25-2017, 03:35 PM
I kinda think it's an unwritten rule in the organization.I have no idea. All these players are under personal conduct clauses in their contracts, regardless what they consider their Rights to be.

I think Tomlin was trying to avoid an issue and instead created a new one. If Villanueva can break ranks and go outside and show support, what's to stop others from doing so next week and taking a knee, regardless what Tomlin says. He's not the team owner.

The MSM could have avoided the whole controversy by NOT giving Kaepernick any attention. But they wouldn't be the MSM then.

Black Diamond
09-25-2017, 03:38 PM
I have no idea. All these players are under personal conduct clauses in their contracts, regardless what they consider their Rights to be.

I think Tomlin was trying to avoid an issue and instead created a new one. If Villanueva can break ranks and go outside and show support, what's to stop others from doing so next week and taking a knee, regardless what Tomlin says. He's not the team owner.

The MSM could have avoided the whole controversy by NOT giving Kaepernick any attention. But they wouldn't be the MSM then.
Could be argued msm could avoided trump by not giving him any attention. lol.

I actually do get what Tomlin was doing. Better than Seattle explanation.

aboutime
09-25-2017, 04:38 PM
Could be argued msm could avoided trump by not giving him any attention. lol.

I actually do get what Tomlin was doing. Better than Seattle explanation.


Tomlin was doing what I SUGGESTED here on DP yesterday, about the players not taking the field until after the national anthem is played.
But...making a Decorated Veteran feel bad about showing his feelings...is just as bad as allowing the crybabies who take a knee...and saying nothing.

hjmick
09-25-2017, 05:17 PM
And now Big Ben has regrets...



"I personally don’t believe the Anthem is ever the time to make any type of protest," the Super Bowl-winning QB says.

Ben Roethlisberger on Monday afternoon released a statement saying he regretted his Pittsburgh Steelers boycotting the national anthem on Sunday. (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/trump-supports-booing-players-who-kneel-national-anthem-1042616)




Alejandro Villanueva For President... or something...

Black Diamond
09-25-2017, 05:19 PM
And now Big Ben has regrets...



"I personally don’t believe the Anthem is ever the time to make any type of protest," the Super Bowl-winning QB says.

Ben Roethlisberger on Monday afternoon released a statement saying he regretted his Pittsburgh Steelers boycotting the national anthem on Sunday. (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/trump-supports-booing-players-who-kneel-national-anthem-1042616)




Alejandro Villanueva For President... or something...
people do get caught in "whatever everyone else is doing" and have regrets afterwards. tomlin is a strong personality. not easy to disobey him, i can imagine.

teams may have a problem on their hands next week. those who stayed in the locker room anyway.

hjmick
09-25-2017, 05:50 PM
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2017/09/25/the-truth-about-what-jerry-jones-said-regarding-the-nfl-national-anthem/


Looks like Jerry won't be too happy tonight...


PHOENIX - The Dallas Cowboys plan to protest during the national anthem before Monday's game against the Arizona Cardinals, per multiple sources.

Nothing has been firmed up and they will likely come to some decision in the locker room. It may not be a coordinated effort. It may just be a few individuals.

One player said, "We have to do something."

Said another, "It's not going to be business as usual. He crossed a line. Something will be done."

Hundreds of players, coaches and even owners from nearly every team in the NFL offered some sort of silent protest on Sunday after President Donald Trump slammed players for protesting against social injustice and racism during the national anthem. (http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/cowboys-players-plan-anthem-protest-over-trumps-comments/ar-AAssvu0?li=BBnb7Kz)


The emphasized portion pretty much confirms my suspicions regarding the majority of the protests over the weekend. They were/are more about what Trump said than the social injustices that started the whole thing...

Black Diamond
09-25-2017, 05:57 PM
Looks like Jerry won't be too happy tonight...


PHOENIX - The Dallas Cowboys plan to protest during the national anthem before Monday's game against the Arizona Cardinals, per multiple sources.

Nothing has been firmed up and they will likely come to some decision in the locker room. It may not be a coordinated effort. It may just be a few individuals.

One player said, "We have to do something."

Said another, "It's not going to be business as usual. He crossed a line. Something will be done."

Hundreds of players, coaches and even owners from nearly every team in the NFL offered some sort of silent protest on Sunday after President Donald Trump slammed players for protesting against social injustice and racism during the national anthem. (http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/cowboys-players-plan-anthem-protest-over-trumps-comments/ar-AAssvu0?li=BBnb7Kz)


The emphasized portion pretty much confirms my suspicions regarding the majority of the protests over the weekend. They were/are more about what Trump said than the social injustices that started the whole thing...
I hope jerry suspends anyone who kneels. If it's in the NFL rules, as you said, can he suspend them?

hjmick
09-25-2017, 06:06 PM
I hope jerry suspends anyone who kneels. If it's in the NFL rules, as you said, can he suspend them?


I don't know if he can or not based on the rule I highlighted in the other thread. It may have to come down for the NFL offices.

Black Diamond
09-25-2017, 06:06 PM
I don't know if he can or not based on the rule I highlighted in the other thread. It may have to come down for the NFL offices.He could bench them.

Black Diamond
09-25-2017, 06:09 PM
Trump knows how to fire up the base. I keep telling people he is smarter than everyone thinks.

Black Diamond
09-25-2017, 06:33 PM
Villanueva jersey up to $330 in eBay.
$400

Kathianne
09-25-2017, 06:58 PM
https://hotair.com/archives/2017/09/25/alejandro-villanueva-threw-teammates-bus-yesterday-standing-alone-anthem/

He got ahead of the others, then the anthem came on.

hjmick
09-25-2017, 07:15 PM
https://hotair.com/archives/2017/09/25/alejandro-villanueva-threw-teammates-bus-yesterday-standing-alone-anthem/

He got ahead of the others, then the anthem came on.


Yeah, I was just reading that. Damn shame. I rescind my vote...

Black Diamond
09-25-2017, 07:17 PM
Yeah, I was just reading that. Damn shame. I rescind my vote...
Reminds me of when my parents told me abut Santa Claus.

Black Diamond
09-25-2017, 08:29 PM
Looks like Jerry won't be too happy tonight...


PHOENIX - The Dallas Cowboys plan to protest during the national anthem before Monday's game against the Arizona Cardinals, per multiple sources.

Nothing has been firmed up and they will likely come to some decision in the locker room. It may not be a coordinated effort. It may just be a few individuals.

One player said, "We have to do something."

Said another, "It's not going to be business as usual. He crossed a line. Something will be done."

Hundreds of players, coaches and even owners from nearly every team in the NFL offered some sort of silent protest on Sunday after President Donald Trump slammed players for protesting against social injustice and racism during the national anthem. (http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/cowboys-players-plan-anthem-protest-over-trumps-comments/ar-AAssvu0?li=BBnb7Kz)


The emphasized portion pretty much confirms my suspicions regarding the majority of the protests over the weekend. They were/are more about what Trump said than the social injustices that started the whole thing...
Friend just texted saying they took a knee before the anthem and all stood up when it started.

Kathianne
09-25-2017, 08:31 PM
Friend just texted saying they took a knee before the anthem and all stood up when it started.

Yep, I just watched it. Cowboys took knee before, stood for anthem. Cardinals locked arms with coaches, owners, and some military.

pete311
09-25-2017, 08:34 PM
http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10893&stc=1

hjmick
09-25-2017, 08:46 PM
http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10893&stc=1


Well, I guess Jerry is going to let this one slide...


I'm telling you, this weekend's protests, and quite possibly all future protests, are about Trump and what he said and nothing else. I say future protests because now it will be hard to tell the difference. This weekend's Trump protests have diluted their cause as well as their future efforts.

pete311
09-25-2017, 09:05 PM
I think it was a very classy move from Jerry Jones, very shrewd.

Bilgerat
09-25-2017, 09:58 PM
I think it was a very classy move from Jerry Jones, very shrewd.



http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10894&stc=1

Abbey
09-25-2017, 11:02 PM
Reminds me of when my parents told me abut Santa Claus.

I think they got to him...

gabosaurus
09-25-2017, 11:37 PM
Alejandro Villanueva just wanted to get a glimpse of the American flag.

The huge left tackle for the Pittsburgh Steelers, and a veteran who served three tours in Afghanistan as an army Ranger, says he has no interest in becoming a symbol in a fight he wants no part of, no matter how it may have looked on Sunday at Soldier Field, when Villanueva found himself standing alone as the flag waved, the national anthem played and his team-mates remained covered in darkness in a tunnel behind him.

The optics made it appear as if Villanueva was making a statement about the growing political battle that has turned high-profile athletes’ action – or inaction – during the playing of The Star-Spangled Banner into a national referendum on patriotism.

Villanueva insists he was not – that saluting the colors had everything to do with miscommunication and nothing to do with him setting himself apart from the organization, the coaches or the players.

“It’s a very embarrassing part on my end,” Villanueva said on Monday. “When everyone sees images of me standing by myself, everybody thinks the team and the Steelers are not behind me and that is absolutely wrong. It’s quite the opposite.”

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/26/steelers-player-who-alone-stood-for-national-anthem-insists-it-was-an-accident

Black Diamond
09-25-2017, 11:41 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/26/steelers-player-who-alone-stood-for-national-anthem-insists-it-was-an-accident
We know.

Black Diamond
09-25-2017, 11:44 PM
I think they got to him...
sounds like it. can't imagine apologizing in that situation. running out of people to like.

Abbey
09-26-2017, 09:29 AM
sounds like it. can't imagine apologizing in that situation. running out of people to like.

Ain't that the truth.

jimnyc
09-26-2017, 12:29 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/26/steelers-player-who-alone-stood-for-national-anthem-insists-it-was-an-accident

He did the HONORABLE thing and stood for the anthem and flag, at SOLDIER field he said, for his fallen brothers and brother veterans. His apology was NOT necessary, but he apologized to his teammates directly for making them stand out. He apologized directly to coach Tomlin. He apologized to the organization. He took ownership for having them stand out negatively due to him doing the honorable thing. It was way far from necessary in the slightest bit. They should have apologized to him. But he is an honorable man, always was, a leader, and he did what he thought was best for the 'team' after his doing the honorable thing, somehow made the others look even worse.

Black Diamond
09-26-2017, 12:38 PM
He did the HONORABLE thing and stood for the anthem and flag, at SOLDIER field he said, for his fallen brothers and brother veterans. His apology was NOT necessary, but he apologized to his teammates directly for making them stand out. He apologized directly to coach Tomlin. He apologized to the organization. He took ownership for having them stand out negatively due to him doing the honorable thing. It was way far from necessary in the slightest bit. They should have apologized to him. But he is an honorable man, always was, a leader, and he did what he thought was best for the 'team' after his doing the honorable thing, somehow made the others look even worse.
They got to him.

jimnyc
09-26-2017, 12:46 PM
For the first time in 49 years, I was embarrassed to be their biggest fan in history. :(

They decided rather than the news or others trying to portraying some of them differently than others on the team, so they said they would take themselves out of the situation, and concentrate on football. In theory, all sounds good.

If folks watched all various footage... the Steelers team was about 15 yards behind Alejandro, all standing, some with hands over their hearts. I suppose that if a handful would have kneeled, it would have taken attention away, hence the crappy decision to stay as a 'team' right inside the tunnel. They all came running out almost instantly upon completion, so they weren't "sitting in the locker room" as many places have stated.

If I saw my teammate inch out to be able to visually see the flag, hand over heart, and paying his respect to his comrades and brothers in arms, I wouldn't have been able to do anything but go forward and join him. Instead, he flew solo.

He doesn't need to apologize for a damn thing. Not.a.damn.thing.

And then Tomlin made it clear after the game that he expected 100% participation, and James Harrison stated similarly. :(

Ben Roethlisberger has since come forward and stated he had trouble sleeping that evening after the game, believing the decision was wrong and that protesting the flag/anthem is the wrong way. He wished he had joined Villanueva.

I'm even more saddened to say that I agree with the Cowboys the most. Granted, they brought politics into the stadium, but they did what they had to do PRIOR to the anthem, and then all stood during the anthem.

Fucking karma got them anyway, and I believe they lost due to their disrespect. They lost a LOT of fans over this. I watched endless videos of fans burning anything from hats, to hundreds if not thousands worth of jackets, jerseys, shirts and everything else.

I bought a Villanueva Jersey out of respect!! The man has officially the #1 selling jersey in the NFL - literally overnight after the game.

Now, for me, of course I'm a fan of the team overall, and of course I'll be back rooting and all that fun stuff - AFTER they get back to football and dropping this shit.

---

Players fined for wearing 9/11 memorial cleats and honoring the dead. Players fined for twerking in the end zone. Players fined for their "freedom of speech" and condemning a referee after any game. Players penalized and sometimes fined if they say certain things to other players and the ref hears it - "unsportsmanlike" penalty. So yeah, the NFL is REAL concerned about free speech for the players and letting them do so on the field of play. :rolleyes:

Here's a pic you can see the players coming out as Al still has his hand over his heart, to show that they were standing right there.... I need to find the photo that shows them with hands over heart. Bit it still only dulls the pain a hair, as if you went that far, come out and FACE the flag. :(

https://i.imgur.com/NiWfeGa.jpg

jimnyc
09-26-2017, 12:50 PM
They got to him.

Yep, Tomlin was an asshole with his comment, even if tame. NOTHING should have been said to a Ranger, who did 3 tours and earned a bronze star. (I think that's the medal). Here was his speech to reporters, THIS is honorable, even when not necessary. Think about that for a minute, and Army ranger, apologizing for standing and going to face the flag. What a damn shame. But listen to the 4 minutes, I love this man and almost $300 for his jersey is the best thing I've ever done in a long long time!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5BinY8nEPk

Gunny
09-26-2017, 03:58 PM
He did the HONORABLE thing and stood for the anthem and flag, at SOLDIER field he said, for his fallen brothers and brother veterans. His apology was NOT necessary, but he apologized to his teammates directly for making them stand out. He apologized directly to coach Tomlin. He apologized to the organization. He took ownership for having them stand out negatively due to him doing the honorable thing. It was way far from necessary in the slightest bit. They should have apologized to him. But he is an honorable man, always was, a leader, and he did what he thought was best for the 'team' after his doing the honorable thing, somehow made the others look even worse.Ummm ... and anyone would expect less than that from this Soldier considering he had the balls to stand alone to begin with?
He's obviously not concerned what the hen house thinks or has to say.

jimnyc
09-26-2017, 04:02 PM
Ummm ... and anyone would expect less than that from this Soldier considering he had the balls to stand alone to begin with?
He's obviously not concerned what the hen house thinks or has to say.

And he may even think as much underneath - but he still did the honorable thing. He did so on Sunday - and then he took a stab wound for the team and organization as a result of the negativity they received, while he was applauded. I LOVE this guy, now HE is a hero in my eyes.

pete311
09-26-2017, 04:11 PM
I'm sure there is a lot of pressure being part of a high testosterone team sport, but I was fine with him standing alone and think he didn't need to apologize, but his initial comments right after were enough to work both sides.

jimnyc
09-26-2017, 04:44 PM
I'm sure there is a lot of pressure being part of a high testosterone team sport, but I was fine with him standing alone and think he didn't need to apologize, but his initial comments right after were enough to work both sides.

That's not the biggest issue here, but yeah, it sucks that players feel like they need to "pick sides" or do anything, other than what they would normally have done while the anthem was played.

gabosaurus
09-26-2017, 11:23 PM
For the first time in 49 years, I was embarrassed to be their biggest fan in history. :(

You are perhaps the biggest Steelers fan in New Rochelle. Maybe. Any further claim would be extremely dubious. :p

I doubt Villanueva received pressure of any kind from anyone. In fact, I think he holds one of the biggest positions of strength of any current athlete in professional sports.
Villanueva is a decorated military veteran who plays for one of the most well known teams in the NFL. If he wanted to go out and salute the flag, he would be backed. If he had stayed in the locker room or taken a knee, he would be similarly backed. Opposing him from any angle would be social and political suicide.
If anyone is entitled to speak his mind freely on any subject, it is Alejandro Villanueva. He fought for the right of everyone to exercise their freedom of thought, speech and actions.
If Villanueva had come out on his own, I doubt he would have suffered any repercussions. Blackballing marginal talents like Kaepernick and Tebow is not the same as doing so with a talented military veteran.

Abbey
09-27-2017, 11:25 AM
So, anecdotally, a member of my NFL fantasy league just left our league. In his words, he "could not in good conscience continue".
Oh and btw, this a thoughtful intelligent and moral man.

jimnyc
09-27-2017, 11:47 AM
You are perhaps the biggest Steelers fan in New Rochelle. Maybe. Any further claim would be extremely dubious. :p

I doubt Villanueva received pressure of any kind from anyone. In fact, I think he holds one of the biggest positions of strength of any current athlete in professional sports.
Villanueva is a decorated military veteran who plays for one of the most well known teams in the NFL. If he wanted to go out and salute the flag, he would be backed. If he had stayed in the locker room or taken a knee, he would be similarly backed. Opposing him from any angle would be social and political suicide.
If anyone is entitled to speak his mind freely on any subject, it is Alejandro Villanueva. He fought for the right of everyone to exercise their freedom of thought, speech and actions.
If Villanueva had come out on his own, I doubt he would have suffered any repercussions. Blackballing marginal talents like Kaepernick and Tebow is not the same as doing so with a talented military veteran.

I could debate anyone on the issue of being the biggest fan, and win every time. I'm like a walking almanac for the Steelers history and own pretty much at least one of everything. Then the tattoo, but tons have those admittedly. I wish I could have been to more games than just one, that's my biggest downfall on that subject.

Villanueva DID receive pressure. Right off the bat, the team got together to decide what they wanted to do, and if no 100% decision, then the tunnel was the decision. Him, as one person, wasn't going to change that. Then after the fact, whiule not condemning, both Tomlin and Harrison referred to him in a manner of disappointment for them not having 100% participation in not coming out for the flag/anthem. That truly disappointed me.

He received calls on this issue from fellow vets, some wounded warriors. And his conscience made the final decision. I wish one by one the team would have come out and supported HIM, as opposed to some sort of politics statement.

I don't know how much Tebow was blackballed. I thought he was a tremendous talent. He could have been used as a running QB, a gadget player, a great TE.... that aside, he often got mocked for his kneeling.

gabosaurus
09-27-2017, 05:41 PM
So Jim, where are you going to be on Christmas Day? Most likely at home with your family I would guess. My good friend the Steelers fan will also spend Christmas Day with her family. In Houston, at the Steelers vs. Texans game. Because if your parents live in the D-FW Metroplex, and the Steelers are playing a mere 250 miles away, you go to the game. IF you are a great Steelers fans who was born and raised in the Pittsburgh area, attended Steelers games before you were born, been to THREE Super Bowls, owns an original Terrible Towel and diligently wakes on early on Sunday morning and journeys to a local sports bar, because Steelers games start at 10 a.m. here and aren't on local TV. Because it takes more than stats, tats and bragging to be a REAL diehard Steelers fan. :cool: Otherwise, I have seen no evidence that Villanueva was pressured by anyone. I believe he is strong enough to speak his own mind.

jimnyc
09-29-2017, 09:20 AM
So Jim, where are you going to be on Christmas Day? Most likely at home with your family I would guess. My good friend the Steelers fan will also spend Christmas Day with her family. In Houston, at the Steelers vs. Texans game. Because if your parents live in the D-FW Metroplex, and the Steelers are playing a mere 250 miles away, you go to the game. IF you are a great Steelers fans who was born and raised in the Pittsburgh area, attended Steelers games before you were born, been to THREE Super Bowls, owns an original Terrible Towel and diligently wakes on early on Sunday morning and journeys to a local sports bar, because Steelers games start at 10 a.m. here and aren't on local TV. Because it takes more than stats, tats and bragging to be a REAL diehard Steelers fan. :cool: Otherwise, I have seen no evidence that Villanueva was pressured by anyone. I believe he is strong enough to speak his own mind.

If I had the $$, I would be there on Christmas day, and would be a season ticket holder. I simply can't afford that is all. It's certainly not about lack of desire, or whether I would go the extra mile to give up normalcy to be with my Steelers instead!

And own a terrible towel? That's cute, I own about every edition ever made, even just got 2 more while out there. :) Never been to a Bowl with them in it, I may have given up an appendage to make that happen!! LOL

I vacationed in Lancaster about 2 weeks every year, but my Dad barely wanted to give me quarters for the video games at the campground, he surely wasn't entertaining my desire to live and breath the black and yellow! :)

Time of games don't matter to me, I get all 16 games televised at home, but credit is given for her effort! I would be more than happy to join her if that was my only option! Kudos to her.

I only brag about my team, rarely about how big a fan. But YES, knowing the team, every player, every game, their entire history, the Rooney family and all their history, 1933... Terry to Terry, but only one signed my Bettis Jersey. OF COURSE those things count, just as it counts that she goes nutso to see the games so early!! That's us FANS! Her and I would have a fun 3 hours chatting during a game!

Villanueva SAID he was contacted by wounded warriors and other fellow veterans. He said the moment got to him when they announced "soldier" field, and the anthem He simply walked out 20 feet and stood with his hand over his heart.

Then he was MORE honorable in tossing himself under the bus, by stating he felt like he tossed the team under the bus. He apologized to everyone.

I couldn't decide who my favorite player is: Big Ben, the best WR in Antonio Brown, Le'veon, Martavis, Harrison, TJ Watt....

Now it's a no brainer - Alejandro Villanueva

Gunny
09-29-2017, 12:09 PM
I'll tell you one thing pissing me off about this whole deal is the media manipulation. Look at the lone, Army vet Pittsburgh Steeler out for the National Anthem. Conversely, EVERY DAMNED PIC since probably before the game was over of the Dallas Cowboys in the media is them kneeling, not standing for the Anthem.

That is such bullshit manipulation and as subtle as a battleship. Yet, the dummies out there are buying off on it.

BOTH teams were stupid as Hell to try and interject themselves into and "fix" the situation.

gabosaurus
09-30-2017, 01:33 AM
I don't often agree with Gunny, but he is 100 percent dead on here. It's media overload of the highest order. And everyone seems to want their share of the spotlight.

I don't want it look like I am doubting Jim's Steelers fan credentials. Obviously he has taken it to another level and should be commended.
At the same time, it is difficult to compare becoming a fan and being born into it. If you grow up in the Pittsburgh area and members of your family have held season tickets since the dawn of the team's existence, you really don't have much of a choice.
If you have a family and all the resulting demands and expenses that going along with it, you obviously have different priorities than someone who is younger and doesn't have kids.

Gunny
09-30-2017, 02:17 AM
I don't often agree with Gunny, but he is 100 percent dead on here. It's media overload of the highest order. And everyone seems to want their share of the spotlight.

I don't want it look like I am doubting Jim's Steelers fan credentials. Obviously he has taken it to another level and should be commended.
At the same time, it is difficult to compare becoming a fan and being born into it. If you grow up in the Pittsburgh area and members of your family have held season tickets since the dawn of the team's existence, you really don't have much of a choice.
If you have a family and all the resulting demands and expenses that going along with it, you obviously have different priorities than someone who is younger and doesn't have kids.Situations change, and sometimes tough decisions have to be made and are not always within parameters of one's choosing.

I have always been a Steelers fan. Since the first NFL game I watched them lose. I have also always been a Cowboys fan since the first time I heard of them. The NFL wasn't exactly widespread news in the late 60s. Was also a different world. We PLAYED sports. Watching them was a "when convenient" thing.

Be that as it may, you got "OVERLOAD" right. On top of the the two reasons above, toss in the military/patriotism angle. I knew the words to the National Anthem and to stand still and shut up before I knew what a football or baseball was. I have ZERO appreciation for die hard sports fanatics as a voyeur. The sports I love to play, I'll hobble out today and still PLAY given a chance. However, this the perfect storm of crossing over topics.

We've got die hard fans, patriotism/vets, politics since Trump had to twit his 2 cents in, and manipulating the whole lot is the media and a bunch of losers out to stir up sh*t just to be doing it. Unfortunately, some lines have been drawn, and as I stated earlier, not necessarily by the participants. They're just stuck. So Plan B is is to step back and assess the situation.

I can live without football/pro sports.

I can live without the MSM. They don't report news. They aren't happy unless everyone is unhappy.

I can live without BLM, AntiFa and all the other little idiot groups that make a living off of hate.

We CANNOT live without the Anthem and the Flag and what they represent. Without the US Constitution, NONE of the rest exists. The freedoms in the Constitution allow any and all of it. Without the Constitution, they are nothing. The idiots behind all this crap could care less about the Constitution and anyone's Rights.

Once those Rights are gone and only those in power have some or any of them left, the very people pulling all this shit will be left out in the cold and crying. Who will lose the most besides the American people? The MSM. The ones that started this sh*t and have stoke the flames. What is one of the first things to go with fascism? Freedom of speech and freedom of the press.

jimnyc
09-30-2017, 10:03 AM
I don't often agree with Gunny, but he is 100 percent dead on here. It's media overload of the highest order. And everyone seems to want their share of the spotlight.

I don't want it look like I am doubting Jim's Steelers fan credentials. Obviously he has taken it to another level and should be commended.
At the same time, it is difficult to compare becoming a fan and being born into it. If you grow up in the Pittsburgh area and members of your family have held season tickets since the dawn of the team's existence, you really don't have much of a choice.
If you have a family and all the resulting demands and expenses that going along with it, you obviously have different priorities than someone who is younger and doesn't have kids.

I could only wish I grew up there. Then again, the mystique may have been lost. It's why I don't like local teams here in NY, the news never ends, I get sick of hearing about them.

jimnyc
10-01-2017, 11:49 AM
Still have bad feelings...

Villanueva, no words need be said. The team - their objective was apparently to take politics out of it and not allow the media or anyone to separate them as a team and their goal on the field. Sounds great! Until the flag is raised and the anthem is played, and then it seemed all so different. Even with them standing, only in the tunnel, while the sole player stood at attention.

They done knew they fucked up. Even Dan Rooney sent out emails to all of us at "Steeler Nation" trying to calm things down.

And now, before anyone ever took a single knee, if that makes me feel any better...

--

These NFL Teams Are Having All Their Players Stand For The Anthem In Week 4

At least five NFL teams will have all of their players standing for the national anthem during the games on Sunday.

The Pittsburgh Steelers, the Dallas Cowboys, the Jacksonville Jaguars, the Denver Broncos will join the New Orleans Saints, who stood this morning for the anthem, according to ESPN’s Darren Rovell.

https://i.imgur.com/fqEI7hh.png

Rest - http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/01/these-nfl-teams-are-having-all-their-players-stand-for-the-anthem-in-week-4/

Black Diamond
10-01-2017, 12:11 PM
No way Seattle will be able to make it through tonight on the big stage without pulling a stunt.

gabosaurus
10-01-2017, 12:55 PM
"Stunt" being the operative word. Team unity begins to crumble when individuals start separating themselves from the team. That is why I don't watch basketball. It's because a sport when individuals are more important than the team they represent.

gabosaurus
10-01-2017, 06:46 PM
I hope Jim had a chance to watch the Steelers game today. Looks like they came through with a big win.
My Steelers obsessed friend encountered difficulty at the place where she normally watches the games. A good ole boy type objected to the Steelers game being turned on. I believe he backed down when threatened with physical violence. Because no one comes between Katie and a Steelers game. :laugh:

Gunny
10-01-2017, 09:37 PM
"Stunt" being the operative word. Team unity begins to crumble when individuals start separating themselves from the team. That is why I don't watch basketball. It's because a sport when individuals are more important than the team they represent.Incorrect. Even Michael Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain couldn't get on top without a team around them. The Spurs would have a single championship without an all-out team effort.

I don't however watch games with self-destructive "teams" where one prima donna ties up all the money.

For as good as Eric Dickerson was, he never had any respect from me. He was not worth what was given for him and what it cost the league. He was the first player of note to hold an entire team for ransom and get away with it. It's not fair to the rest of the players, the fans and the "team" overall. The dominoes started falling once the owner of the Rams caved, and Irsay paid.