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pete311
10-04-2017, 11:44 AM
#1: MORE GUNS DONíT MAKE YOU SAFER#2: SHOOTINGS ARE MORE FREQUENT#3: RESTRICTING SALES WORKS#4: HISTORICAL COMPARISONS MAY BE FLAWED#5: NOT ALL MASS SHOOTINGS ARE TERRORISM#6: BACKGROUND CHECKS WORK




https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/6-things-to-know-about-mass-shootings-in-america/

CSM
10-04-2017, 11:57 AM
1. Washington, D.C.'s gun ban worsened the city's homicide rate. As The Daily Wire has previously explained:

2. The gun bans in Australia and Britain also didn't work

3. The vast majority of mass shootings occur in gun-free zones

4. According to Lott, there is a clear correlation between higher firearm ownership and reducing police killings.

5. There is also a correlation between fewer mass public shootings and higher gun ownership.

6. As the number of guns per person has increased, gun violence has declined.

7. The number of defensive gun uses are higher than the number of criminal firearm uses.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/7872/7-facts-gun-crime-show-gun-control-doesnt-work-aaron-bandler

jimnyc
10-04-2017, 02:03 PM
The boxer throws a fantastic jab, but then was dropped by an uppercut in return.

https://i.imgur.com/PTSJAhb.gif

pete311
10-04-2017, 02:22 PM
The boxer throws a fantastic jab, but then was dropped by an uppercut in return.

https://i.imgur.com/PTSJAhb.gif

Please explain the superiority of your sources claims over mine.

jimnyc
10-04-2017, 02:24 PM
Please explain the superiority of your sources claims over mine.

I posted no sources. You must still be woozy. :)

pete311
10-04-2017, 02:52 PM
I posted no sources. You must still be woozy. :)

These source you support...

Black Diamond
10-04-2017, 02:55 PM
Please explain the superiority of your sources claims over mine.
given your history....


we can take a guess.

jimnyc
10-04-2017, 03:09 PM
These source you support...

It's more than just this article. This has been a debate that's been going on for many many years. I just see more of an argument against many slanted facts to support bans or whatever, and much more factual information coming from those who show that bans simply aren't effective overall. There might even be truth to a few of those you posted, but not anything remotely that would support any types of bans or further regulations.

This guy was a multi-millionaire, if he couldn't build his little sniper room up there, his planning would have lead him to another path to destruction.

Black Diamond
10-04-2017, 03:30 PM
Does Chicago need tighter gun laws ?

pete311
10-04-2017, 03:46 PM
Does Chicago need tighter gun laws ?

As I mentioned earlier cities and states that have surrounding cities and states that have tough laws do see drops like the east. Chicago is an island. So it's not very effective if 15 miles away the laws are different.

pete311
10-04-2017, 03:50 PM
It's more than just this article. This has been a debate that's been going on for many many years. I just see more of an argument against many slanted facts to support bans or whatever, and much more factual information coming from those who show that bans simply aren't effective overall. There might even be truth to a few of those you posted, but not anything remotely that would support any types of bans or further regulations.

This guy was a multi-millionaire, if he couldn't build his little sniper room up there, his planning would have lead him to another path to destruction.

Is there anything that could change your mind or is this a dogmatic issue for you? Let him try other means, other means that we may be better able to detect, prevent and could cause less damage.

Black Diamond
10-04-2017, 04:06 PM
As I mentioned earlier cities and states that have surrounding cities and states that have tough laws do see drops like the east. Chicago is an island. So it's not very effective if 15 miles away the laws are different.
Chicago is not an island.

pete311
10-04-2017, 04:10 PM
Chicago is not an island.

In terms of gun laws it is. Not sure if you're trolling me.

jimnyc
10-04-2017, 04:21 PM
Is there anything that could change your mind or is this a dogmatic issue for you? Let him try other means, other means that we may be better able to detect, prevent and could cause less damage.

Of course, I'm always open to change and listening. But the 2nd would be extremely difficult to overcome. This is what "I" believe is one of the cornerstones of our nation.

I'm open to the background checks of course. I'm open to changes in massive sized magazines. But think about it, lessen the size, and folks will just buy more. Changing them takes seconds. I'm willing to listen to talk of suppressors, but I think the majority of folks are clueless. New ways to work with the mentally ill. A very sticky situation, but I'm open to talk.

hjmick
10-04-2017, 04:28 PM
There is not a legitimate gun shop in this nation that doesn't run a background check.

Black Diamond
10-04-2017, 04:31 PM
Is there anything that could change your mind or is this a dogmatic issue for you? Let him try other means, other means that we may be better able to detect, prevent and could cause less damage.
America Would be the Island you speak of Go ahead and ban guns. Our southern border is such that illegal guns will make their way into bad guys hands. But building a wall is racist.

Black Diamond
10-04-2017, 04:32 PM
There is not a legitimate gun shop in this nation that doesn't run a background check.
That's true. Shouldn't take long either.

pete311
10-04-2017, 04:38 PM
This is what "I" believe is one of the cornerstones of our nation.

How does it benefit the US in an integral way other than leading the world in gun deaths?

pete311
10-04-2017, 04:43 PM
America Would be the Island you speak of Go ahead and ban guns. Our southern border is such that illegal guns will make their way into bad guys hands. But building a wall is racist.

Walls don't stop anything. In reality, guns are smuggled from the US to mexico. Not the other way around.

jimnyc
10-04-2017, 05:17 PM
How does it benefit the US in an integral way other than leading the world in gun deaths?

Self defense is the primary reason. Folks want to discuss deaths, but never discuss how many lives saved. Women defending themselves from potential attackers and/or rapists. A shame that more women didn't carry and prevent even more. Business owners, small business owners especially. A lot carry money or have money in their registers. They have a right to defend their possessions, and I've seen countless do just that. Home invasions and similar, so many prevented when a homeowner shoots those folks, but sadly a lot kill the owners, or rob them, as the owners are unarmed. In defense of others. I've also seen countless videos and stories where folks carrying a gun were able to save the day, save someone's life, save a business from getting robbed.

We have 350 million+ in our nation. We have the most freedom than any other nation. We allow more immigrants to come than any other country. We're a different country than most, by far.


Walls don't stop anything. In reality, guns are smuggled from the US to mexico. Not the other way around.

Walls don't stop anything. Tell that to the 65 countries around the world that have them. Then add in the vatican. Then add in the white house. Places that need "protection" of the highest order, always have fences for some reason. Even prisons have fences. To claim they don't stop anything is absurd.

Gunny
10-04-2017, 05:37 PM
It's more than just this article. This has been a debate that's been going on for many many years. I just see more of an argument against many slanted facts to support bans or whatever, and much more factual information coming from those who show that bans simply aren't effective overall. There might even be truth to a few of those you posted, but not anything remotely that would support any types of bans or further regulations.

This guy was a multi-millionaire, if he couldn't build his little sniper room up there, his planning would have lead him to another path to destruction.Recall just yesterday what I posted in response to your article on black crime statistics? Doesn't matter what the facts, truth, logic, common sense and sky tell you ... they'll twist shit around so it says you're wrong. AND believe their own shit.

pete311
10-04-2017, 05:37 PM
Self defense is the primary reason. Folks want to discuss deaths, but never discuss how many lives saved. Women defending themselves from potential attackers and/or rapists. A shame that more women didn't carry and prevent even more. Business owners, small business owners especially. A lot carry money or have money in their registers. They have a right to defend their possessions, and I've seen countless do just that. Home invasions and similar, so many prevented when a homeowner shoots those folks, but sadly a lot kill the owners, or rob them, as the owners are unarmed. In defense of others. I've also seen countless videos and stories where folks carrying a gun were able to save the day, save someone's life, save a business from getting robbed.

We have 350 million+ in our nation. We have the most freedom than any other nation. We allow more immigrants to come than any other country. We're a different country than most, by far.



Walls don't stop anything. Tell that to the 65 countries around the world that have them. Then add in the vatican. Then add in the white house. Places that need "protection" of the highest order, always have fences for some reason. Even prisons have fences. To claim they don't stop anything is absurd.

So self defense is one of the reasons that makes America special? All other 1st world countries are being routinely savaged and plundered? I think not. I've traveled, they're doing just fine. Look at the countries building walls. Most are shit holes. I thought we were different. Thought we were passed medieval ideas.

Gunny
10-04-2017, 05:44 PM
So self defense is one of the reasons that makes America special? All other 1st world countries are being routinely savaged and plundered? I think not. I've traveled, they're doing just fine. Look at the countries building walls. Most are shit holes. I thought we were different. Thought we were passed medieval ideas.

Been around a bit more than you, buddy. A LOT as in L-O-T more people would be alive in those "shit holes" if they had the means to defend themselves. Try selling your shit to an African village chief or a Christian missionary, or somewhere in the ME or SE Asia.

pete311
10-04-2017, 05:57 PM
Been around a bit more than you, buddy. A LOT as in L-O-T more people would be alive in those "shit holes" if they had the means to defend themselves. Try selling your shit to an African village chief or a Christian missionary, or somewhere in the ME or SE Asia.

wtf are you talking about

High_Plains_Drifter
10-04-2017, 06:42 PM
How does it benefit the US in an integral way other than leading the world in gun deaths?
The majority of "gun deaths" in America are SUICIDE, but your fake news websites leave that inconvenient little tidbit out.

You leftists aren't going to disarm America, not today, not tomorrow, not next week or next month. The real facts of the matter are, that every time you progs start this anti constitutional garbage, gun sales sky rocket. If you really hated guns so much, a logical person would gather you'd be much better off if you kept your mouths shut.

Gunny
10-04-2017, 06:55 PM
wtf are you talking aboutPlay dumb with someone else, huh? You're the one that stated you've been around like no one else has. The places overseas have mass graves that began by disarming the populace. The Third Reich began by disarming the populace. EVERY place that's a "shit hole" as you put it, became one by disarming the populace and murdering anyone that disagreed.

The not-so-funny part is you lefties have already made this country a worse place than the one we fought a war with to get rid of tyranny. Y'all just call it by another name and tax us to death, regulate us a death, want a new rule for every time the wind blows us to death, and have done your damnedest and still are trying to disarm the populace.

Want to live in a police state? North Korea is available. SO's the Middle East and Africa. Choose one. Go there. Take all your like-minded folk with you. This country worked just fine before the left went over the damned cliff.

Black Diamond
10-04-2017, 07:09 PM
Play dumb with someone else, huh? You're the one that stated you've been around like no one else has. The places overseas have mass graves that began by disarming the populace. The Third Reich began by disarming the populace. EVERY place that's a "shit hole" as you put it, became one by disarming the populace and murdering anyone that disagreed.

The not-so-funny part is you lefties have already made this country a worse place than the one we fought a war with to get rid of tyranny. Y'all just call it by another name and tax us to death, regulate us a death, want a new rule for every time the wind blows us to death, and have done your damnedest and still are trying to disarm the populace.

Want to live in a police state? North Korea is available. SO's the Middle East and Africa. Choose one. Go there. Take all your like-minded folk with you. This country worked just fine before the left went over the damned cliff.
Oh that I believe him on. :laugh:

pete311
10-05-2017, 11:13 AM
NYC has strict gun laws and run by democrats

NYC saw historically low number of shootings in 2016; murders also down

http://www.nydailynews.com/amp/new-york/nyc-crime/nyc-historically-number-shootings-2016-article-1.2933098

jimnyc
10-05-2017, 11:56 AM
NYC has strict gun laws and run by democrats

NYC saw historically low number of shootings in 2016; murders also down

http://www.nydailynews.com/amp/new-york/nyc-crime/nyc-historically-number-shootings-2016-article-1.2933098

Is this because of gun control? 1st, it's still WAY too many, and secondly it's got nothing to do with gun control. And lastly, it's up since 2 years ago.

You can thank profiling!

The NYPD credited the stark reduction to its new precision policing approach to fighting crime, in which investigators focus on people who have shown a pattern of committing crimes.

Instead of stopping and frisking people in minority neighborhoods — a widely criticized tactic used by cops under former Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly — police are targeting street crews and recidivists who can become one-person crime sprees.

Gunny
10-05-2017, 02:15 PM
Is there anything that could change your mind or is this a dogmatic issue for you? Let him try other means, other means that we may be better able to detect, prevent and could cause less damage.

Or not. No firearms? I'm going for chemical weapons next. Can get what I need at Home Depot, Lowe's, True Value, etc. Can even rent a truck from U-Haul so as not to muss mine up.

Think you can rack up a body count with a firearm? Some chems in the water supply could easily make that look like child's play.

pete311
10-05-2017, 02:27 PM
Or not. No firearms? I'm going for chemical weapons next. Can get what I need at Home Depot, Lowe's, True Value, etc. Can even rent a truck from U-Haul so as not to muss mine up.

Think you can rack up a body count with a firearm? Some chems in the water supply could easily make that look like child's play.

So why hasn't anyone done it?

Gunny
10-05-2017, 02:31 PM
So why hasn't anyone done it?For real? Methinks I detect some serious dishonesty in said question.:slap:

jimnyc
10-05-2017, 02:53 PM
WSJ: More Gun Laws Won't Stop Determined Killers

Even as investigators continue to search for a motive for the deadly mass shooting in Las Vegas, The Wall Street Journal cautioned more gun laws won't stop mass shootings by a determined killer.

"Stephen Paddock's motives for his murderous rampage in Las Vegas on Sunday still aren't known, and neither are all the details of his plans and methods," the newspaper said in an editorial. "But since our friends on the left have decided to make this a debate over gun control, someone has to explain why their familiar solutions won't stop mass shootings.

"The impulse to do something after an event of such horror is understandable, and progressives believe that every human problem can be solved with a policy tweak. A ban here, a background check there, and, voila, no more mass shootings. But American life and human depravity don't always bend to government dictates."

The Journal noted Paddock used so-called bump stocks to simulate, quick automatic-style fire.

"Outright modification of a firearm into an automatic is already a federal felony punishable by 10 years in prison," the newspaper said. "Congress could outlaw bump stocks, but how does it outlaw a technique? The practice of quickly 'bumping' a trigger with one's finger to engage in rapid fire long predates bump stocks or other accessories.

"Congress could again try to ban certain types of rifles, but a 2015 Congressional Research Service report found that from 1999 to 2013 assault rifles were used in 27% of public mass shootings. As for background checks, several Nevada gun shops have told the press that Paddock passed all requisite checks, and he appears to have no history that would have flagged him under a more stringent background system.

"He was able to buy his guns legally so he had no reason to use what is sometimes called the gun-show loophole."

The Journal wrote it will always be difficult to stop a determined killer, no matter what the laws are.

"We aren't opposed to background checks or regulating large magazines or bump stocks, but no one should think these will stop a determined killer," the Journal noted. "After each gun tragedy, progressives denounce the 'gun lobby' and demand that politicians 'do something,' but each time they run into the reality that their solutions won't work. The 'gun lobby' are Americans who want to retain their right to self-defense."

http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/wall-street-journal-editorial-gun-laws-wont/2017/10/05/id/817854/

Gunny
10-05-2017, 03:42 PM
WSJ: More Gun Laws Won't Stop Determined Killers

Even as investigators continue to search for a motive for the deadly mass shooting in Las Vegas, The Wall Street Journal cautioned more gun laws won't stop mass shootings by a determined killer.

"Stephen Paddock's motives for his murderous rampage in Las Vegas on Sunday still aren't known, and neither are all the details of his plans and methods," the newspaper said in an editorial. "But since our friends on the left have decided to make this a debate over gun control, someone has to explain why their familiar solutions won't stop mass shootings.

"The impulse to do something after an event of such horror is understandable, and progressives believe that every human problem can be solved with a policy tweak. A ban here, a background check there, and, voila, no more mass shootings. But American life and human depravity don't always bend to government dictates."

The Journal noted Paddock used so-called bump stocks to simulate, quick automatic-style fire.

"Outright modification of a firearm into an automatic is already a federal felony punishable by 10 years in prison," the newspaper said. "Congress could outlaw bump stocks, but how does it outlaw a technique? The practice of quickly 'bumping' a trigger with one's finger to engage in rapid fire long predates bump stocks or other accessories.

"Congress could again try to ban certain types of rifles, but a 2015 Congressional Research Service report found that from 1999 to 2013 assault rifles were used in 27% of public mass shootings. As for background checks, several Nevada gun shops have told the press that Paddock passed all requisite checks, and he appears to have no history that would have flagged him under a more stringent background system.

"He was able to buy his guns legally so he had no reason to use what is sometimes called the gun-show loophole."

The Journal wrote it will always be difficult to stop a determined killer, no matter what the laws are.

"We aren't opposed to background checks or regulating large magazines or bump stocks, but no one should think these will stop a determined killer," the Journal noted. "After each gun tragedy, progressives denounce the 'gun lobby' and demand that politicians 'do something,' but each time they run into the reality that their solutions won't work. The 'gun lobby' are Americans who want to retain their right to self-defense."

http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/wall-street-journal-editorial-gun-laws-wont/2017/10/05/id/817854/The answer to Pete's question is TOO simple. McVey used fertilizer. The 9/11 hijackers used box cutters.

Where there's a will there's a way. Outlaw firearms and I live 2 hours from Mexico. I'll have one or more anyway. Or maybe just move there. Other countries seem to have more freedoms nowadays than the left want us to.

aboutime
10-05-2017, 03:52 PM
http://youtu.be/vdnA-ESWcPs