Russia election: What do young Russians think of Putin?

[Gunny]

Nikita Pavlov is six days too young to vote in Russia's presidential election on 18 March.
"It doesn't matter, I wouldn't have voted anyway," he says. "This is the election with no choice."
Nikita lives in Nizhny Novgorod, a central Russian city of one million inhabitants.
He wants to study in Moscow and in a few months he will find out if his grades are good enough.
"There's no prospect for me here," he says.
."A job in an office for 50,000 roubles (£633; $880) a month is the best I can hope for in this town."After finishing school, many young Russians head to Moscow or St Petersburg. That is where the jobs and the money are.
Nikita's dream is to become an entertainer. He wants to be like Ivan Urgant, a Russian late-night talk show host similar to Stephen Colbert or Jimmy Kimmel.
"But you can't speak freely on TV," he says. And censorship is not the only problem.
"We live in a feudal state here in Russia," Nikita says. "If I look for a good position after graduation, all the nice posts will be taken by well-connected sons."


cont ...http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43088445

There are 3 different short interviews. The prevailing notion is that it doesn't really matter whether or not they vote. The outcome is already decided. Son glimpses of interesting points of view.

[Drummond]

cont ...http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43088445

There are 3 different short interviews. The prevailing notion is that it doesn't really matter whether or not they vote. The outcome is already decided. Son glimpses of interesting points of view.

I've previously posted this, on the subject of how Russia's youth see Putin ...

https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/russias-youth-takes-the-lead-in-countrywide-protests-against-putin-60309


Russia's Youth Takes the Lead in Countrywide Protests Against Putin

"I'm prepared to be shot," says one protester. "Money and power, that's all that Putin wants," says another

[Polite Russian]

I don't think, that you can find any correct info about young russians's thoughts about Putin. But, you have me here :)

Majority of young people do not accept anything, that our politicans do. We are tired of that (post)soviet old dudes, that stuck in old world (I dont think, that it is only Russia's problem, btw. Except "soviet" part, that's our special :\)
But at the same time there is no actual opposition here. We have the "official opposition", who, actually is the same. And some liberal dummies, who can remind you your democrats. We have some candidates, but nobody trust them.

As for me, I do not support anyone. And I'm not going to waste my time on that fake "elections". Everybody knows everything, but there is no alternative for now.
All we can do - just look at this crap and wait, untill it will eliminate itself. And only then there will be chances to change something.

[Polite Russian]

Problems started with the revolution. When the whole Europe was learning how to use democracy, we did tanks, and all that stuff. There was no freedom here, but then USSR fall, and suddenly we gain a lot of freedom. But then a lot of wars on borders, "hot spots", 2 Chechen wars, chaos inside country. And now we have what we have. :drama:

[Gunny]

Problems started with the revolution. When the whole Europe was learning how to use democracy, we did tanks, and all that stuff. There was no freedom here, but then USSR fall, and suddenly we gain a lot of freedom. But then a lot of wars on borders, "hot spots", 2 Chechen wars, chaos inside country. And now we have what we have. :drama:
I hear ya about the drama :laugh:

[jimnyc]

cont ...http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43088445

There are 3 different short interviews. The prevailing notion is that it doesn't really matter whether or not they vote. The outcome is already decided. Son glimpses of interesting points of view.

Pretty much everyone in the world knows the numbers don't matter, the vote doesn't matter, its all a facade. Well, a few folks that troll and what not try and claim it's all on the up and up, and Putin is an upstanding citizen, and not a murdering dickhead, who ensures he'll win the vote should he want to. Just amazing how folks die and get poisoned and get shot over the years. I'm sure it's probably all people from the UK, and just trying to lay blame on Putin.

Yeah, that's it. :rolleyes:

[Gunny]

I don't think, that you can find any correct info about young russians's thoughts about Putin. But, you have me here :)

Majority of young people do not accept anything, that our politicans do. We are tired of that (post)soviet old dudes, that stuck in old world (I dont think, that it is only Russia's problem, btw. Except "soviet" part, that's our special :\)
But at the same time there is no actual opposition here. We have the "official opposition", who, actually is the same. And some liberal dummies, who can remind you your democrats. We have some candidates, but nobody trust them.

As for me, I do not support anyone. And I'm not going to waste my time on that fake "elections". Everybody knows everything, but there is no alternative for now.
All we can do - just look at this crap and wait, untill it will eliminate itself. And only then there will be chances to change something.Good to hear from someone from Russia who isn't just buying off on all the political crap. We have it here as well. What I don't get is this:

Why is all the propaganda anti-US? We really quit paying attention to Russia 30 years ago. We don't discuss it, and our young people don't know anything more about the Cold War than your young people. It seems very much that in Russian minds, there has been this "war" still going on during all that time.

Sounds a LOT like politicians inventing an enemy to focus the people's minds against. Hitler's favorite tactic. Then people like this popa-whatever come here and start talking all this trash that is untrue.

Of course our politicians are going to condemn the annexing of Crimea. They're going to condemn the use of chemical warfare. That's what they do. Your politicians in turn vote against everything the US is for. Kind of childish, if you ask me, but that's how it is. Putin seems to be playing right along.

What no one seems to notice is Trump has NOT reacted to it until the poisoning of this ex-spy in Britain. Anyone can see why that would piss off the Brits. Trump said is we will back the UK. Not a surprise. Otherwise, I'm not getting the one-sided propaganda.

And are ALL Russian commies left over from the Stone Age and their disciples like Balu and popa-whatever as one-sided, ignorant and arrogant as these two? What a couple of weirdo's.

[Polite Russian]

Good to hear from someone from Russia who isn't just buying off on all the political crap. We have it here as well. What I don't get is this:

Why is all the propaganda anti-US? We really quit paying attention to Russia 30 years ago. We don't discuss it, and our young people don't know anything more about the Cold War than your young people. It seems very much that in Russian minds, there has been this "war" still going on during all that time.

Sounds a LOT like politicians inventing an enemy to focus the people's minds against. Hitler's favorite tactic. Then people like this popa-whatever come here and start talking all this trash that is untrue.

Of course our politicians are going to condemn the annexing of Crimea. They're going to condemn the use of chemical warfare. That's what they do. Your politicians in turn vote against everything the US is for. Kind of childish, if you ask me, but that's how it is. Putin seems to be playing right along.

What no one seems to notice is Trump has NOT reacted to it until the poisoning of this ex-spy in Britain. Anyone can see why that would piss off the Brits. Trump said is we will back the UK. Not a surprise. Otherwise, I'm not getting the one-sided propaganda.

And are ALL Russian commies left over from the Stone Age and their disciples like Balu and popa-whatever as one-sided, ignorant and arrogant as these two? What a couple of weirdo's.



Honestly I don't know, what's wrong between RF and US. I mean when it all started. As I know, at the beginning of all that shit, Putin was pro-western, pro-American president, but then something go wrong. I think, that it is all about geopolitics, as usual. And of cource we have more conservative society here, and this is the point, how our propaganda can be builded. You just show all our differences in a bad way.

Look, Crimea is our, slav's buisness. I do not support A LOT of our government moves. I condemn a lot of their decisions. But the "annexion" of Crimea was right. And now I don't mean politics, I mean in people's minds. The Crimean people. I know A LOT of people from that part of, already, Russia (evil Russian's occupant laugh). And people of Donbass hoped of the same fate.. I have some friends, that go there to fight. It's about people. People of Crimea (majority) and Donbass are identifying themselfes as Russians, they speak Russian language, they was raised in Russian culture. And they never supported Ukrainian language. So yes, if we have some international laws about people right to identify themselfes (sorry, I don't know, how that law called), so it is their way to show world, that they are not Ukrainians.


BUT! There is a moment, when even those people, who was ready to forgive Putin for some old shit, suddenly stopped to support him again. A lot of young people here think, that we shoud "annex" Donbass. People of Donbass was waiting for Russian Army to come. You can not belive me, but it is what I heard from refugees, from militants (that's the way we call Donbass separatists and volunteers).



And communists are the same everywhere, yeah. I don't know what to do with that phenomenon.


Now all of you can throw some bottles at me, because of my words about Crimea and Donbass :D But I live not so far away, I know people from combat zone personaly, so I belive, that my info is okay :3


And again, sorry, if I did some grammar mistakes.

[Polite Russian]

And about my compatriots... I think, that they are just trolls.

[Gunny]

Honestly I don't know, what's wrong between RF and US. I mean when it al started. As I know, at the beginning of all that shit, Putin was pro-western, pro-American president, but then something go wrong. I think, that it is all about geopolitics, as usual. And of cource we have more conservative society here, and this is the point, how our propaganda can be builded. You just show all our differences in a bad way.

Look, Crimea is our, slav's buisness. I do not support A LOT of our government moves. I condemn a lot of their decisions. But the "annexion" of Crimea was right. And now I don't mean politics, I mean in people's minds. The Crimean people. I know A LOT of people from that part of, already, Russia (evil Russian's occupant laugh). And people of Donbass hoped of the same fate.. I have some friends, that go there to fight. It's about people. People of Crimea (majority) and Donbass are identifying themselfes as Russians, they speak Russian language, they was raised in Russian culture. And they never supported Ukrainian language. So yes, if we have some international laws about people right to identify themselfes (sorry, I don't know, how that law called), so it is their way to show world, that they are not Ukrainians.


BUT! There is a moment, when even those people, who was ready to forgive Putin for some old shit, suddenly stopped to support him again. A lot of young people here think, that we shoud "annex" Donbass. People of Donbass was waiting for Russian Army to come. You can not belive me, but it is what I heard from refugees, from militants (that's the way we call Donbass separatists and volunteers).



And communists are the same everywhere, yeah. I don't know what to do with that phenomenon.


Now all of you can throw some bottles at me, because of my words about Crimea and Donbass :D But I live not so far away, I know people from combat zone personaly, so I belive, that my info is okay :3


And again, sorry, if I did some grammar mistakes.From our perspective -- and Drummond can feel free to join in as e is from Europe and I am not -- you have two problems.

One, the reasoning you give for annexing Crimea is the EXACT SAME reason Hitler used to annex both the Sudetenland and Austria. Germanic people ruled and discriminated against by non-German people. Russia invading a NATO country automatically puts Russia at odds with ALL NATO countries, which is most of Western Europe. Ukraine and a couple of other former Soviet countries joined NATO for just this very reason ... protection from Russia.

As a Marine, the way I was trained, and we conducted business, when the USSR dissolved, we treated ALL former Soviet nations as if they were still Soviet nations. That is of course at odds with what our politicians did, being politicians. I always thought Ukraine and Crimea were Russian provinces, so I did not give it much thought.

Apparently, Putin did. That is when his attitude toward the West changed. My own opinion is we have enough to deal with and if NATO wants to do something about Russia, they can. We put in our vote and pay our dues (of course), but Eastern Europe is not exactly a big concern of ours.

I don't know WHAT the politicians are thinking about Syria. Syria has never been friendly to the West so it isn't like the West is losing anything. Once the French left and quit dealing with Assad's father, he began dealing with the USSR. France was everything but openly hostile toward the US and other Western "allies" to begin with because Degaulle was a commie.

My opinion on that is we just need to get out. Too many different sides in a war that is not ours, and a war that is not focused on attacking ISIS which is the reason we are involved.

Where I DO care is that Assad and Russia are supporting an Iranian terrorist army, Hezbollah. Anyway, the US needs to just get out and let everyone kill each other. Since we are not going to commit full US forces to it and take the place, sticking around to get shot at and blamed for crap is a waste of time.

[Drummond]

From our perspective -- and @Drummond (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=2287) can feel free to join in as e is from Europe and I am not -- you have two problems.

One, the reasoning you give for annexing Crimea is the EXACT SAME reason Hitler used to annex both the Sudetenland and Austria. Germanic people ruled and discriminated against by non-German people. Russia invading a NATO country automatically puts Russia at odds with ALL NATO countries, which is most of Western Europe. Ukraine and a couple of other former Soviet countries joined NATO for just this very reason ... protection from Russia.

As a Marine, the way I was trained, and we conducted business, when the USSR dissolved, we treated ALL former Soviet nations as if they were still Soviet nations. That is of course at odds with what our politicians did, being politicians. I always thought Ukraine and Crimea were Russian provinces, so I did not give it much thought.

Apparently, Putin did. That is when his attitude toward the West changed. My own opinion is we have enough to deal with and if NATO wants to do something about Russia, they can. We put in our vote and pay our dues (of course), but Eastern Europe is not exactly a big concern of ours.

I don't know WHAT the politicians are thinking about Syria. Syria has never been friendly to the West so it isn't like the West is losing anything. Once the French left and quit dealing with Assad's father, he began dealing with the USSR. France was everything but openly hostile toward the US and other Western "allies" to begin with because Degaulle was a commie.

My opinion on that is we just need to get out. Too many different sides in a war that is not ours, and a war that is not focused on attacking ISIS which is the reason we are involved.

Where I DO care is that Assad and Russia are supporting an Iranian terrorist army, Hezbollah. Anyway, the US needs to just get out and let everyone kill each other. Since we are not going to commit full US forces to it and take the place, sticking around to get shot at and blamed for crap is a waste of time.

Excellent post. I don't have much to add.

I've noticed how irremediably hostile Russians are to Ukraine. I believe that all this amounts to is massive (and insufferably arrogant) Russian resentment that Ukraine actually dares to want its full independence from Russia. They ally themselves to NATO ... Putin hates that. Just as he will hate to see such independence from any former USSR State that he still has the longer-term intention to politically dominate.

The annexation of Crimea was absolutely disgusting. Done through a so-called 'Referendum' that yielded totally improbable voting figures, and internationally seen to be illegal. Would Putin ever consider allowing Crimea another Referendum ? Absolutely not .. at any time, ever. He's been reported as saying that.

Hitler would've approved, no doubt.

On Europe ... consider one fact, when it comes to Europe standing strongly against Russia, politically. Much of Europe depends on Russia for its gas supplies. This is far less true for us in the UK, I believe. Europe will, therefore, be reluctant to go beyond a limited extent to back us against Russia, when it comes to the Salisbury chemical weapon deployment issue, for example.

[Our 'Brexit' intentions don't help, either ! Our exit from the EU is being taken very badly by the EU, and they've dreamed up various tricks to make departure negotiations a tough process.]

[Gunny]

To try and start from the beginning ...

As I said, I thought Ukraine was part of Russia. I did not know it was not until I asked polite russian to translate a Ukrainian song for me and he said he didn't speak Ukrainian. I know very little about the internal politics of the Soviet Union. I could at one time operate most of their small arms proficiently :). I did not and still do not know who gained independence post-USSR. I do recall that Ukraine was one country that did.

Then I also recalled stories of Ukrainian guards in Nazi death camps. I wasn't sure if this was collaboration by Ukrainians or the usual 3rd Reich offer of "join or die". It appears however that this past association with Hitler is STILL used as a propaganda tool against Ukraine. Popa-whatever was incensed that his "Nazi scare tactic" didn't phase me like I should worry they're going to take over in my sleep.

Then there is the fact that if NATO is what it was designed to be, ANY transgression against ANY NATO member should have been met by force, not a bunch of old women sitting around a table trying to shame the transgressor and imposing "sanctions" that apparently no one cares about. If NATO doesn't work, I'm all for getting out of it as much as I am the UN. Nobody cares what either thinks or does. From a military standpoint, I consider NATOs response lame.

This reminds me greatly of what turned into WWI. Old mutual defense alliances that were obsolete that ended up involving everyone out of commitment, whether or not the cause was just, anyone agreed. I mean, who in the modern, countries REALLY cared if a back water Serb shot Franz Ferdinand? Lot a people died for a pompous old fool because of those treaties.

As far as I am concerned, the US should keep it's mutual defense treaties with the UK, Israel, Japan, the Philippines and throw the rest out and let anyone that wants to come knocking and base any treaty on who that country is now and where it is now and why it wants a treaty with us.

[Papokarlo]

the people welcomed Putin in Crimea
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjOhgJIN_DM

Crimea has always been part of Russia, but in the middle of the 20th century it was illegally transferred to Ukraine. one morning people woke up not in Russia but in Ukraine.

[Gunny]

:laugh2::laugh2:
the people welcomed Putin in Crimea
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjOhgJIN_DM

Crimea has always been part of Russia, but in the middle of the 20th century it was illegally transferred to Ukraine. one morning people woke up not in Russia but in Ukraine.How was it "illegally" transferred? From a map, it looks to be part of Ukraine and not Russia. Russia is having to build a bridge to get to it.

You mean it was part of the Soviet Union which was the biggest illegal land grab in the 20th century? The Soviet Union was dissolved BY Russia. Russia didn't want it. Now it does so it just takes the place by force. You can call that whatever you want. It's called unprovoked, armed invasion and occupation by force by any logical mind. Not to mention stealing.

[Papokarlo]

:laugh2::laugh2:How was it "illegally" transferred? From a map, it looks to be part of Ukraine and not Russia. Russia is having to build a bridge to get to it.

You mean it was part of the Soviet Union which was the biggest illegal land grab in the 20th century? The Soviet Union was dissolved BY Russia. Russia didn't want it. Now it does so it just takes the place by force. You can call that whatever you want. It's called unprovoked, armed invasion and occupation by force by any logical mind. Not to mention stealing.
at the end of the second world war was a divided area. we paid early in the war against Hitler. Hitler wanted to destroy all of Europe, including police, jewels, Russians, and the Baltic States(all these Nations he wanted to exterminate) we liberated these countries from Hitler. Further divided Europe between America England and the Soviet Union(Yalta conference), in my opinion it is fair. Crimea has always been a part of Russia since the 1400's. Lenin Created Ukraine in the early 20th century. And Brezhnev in the middle of the 20th century gate of Crimea to Ukraine, illegally. during the second world war we lost about 40 000 000 people(it was a brutal war)

[Gunny]

at the end of the second world war was a divided area. we paid early in the war against Hitler. Hitler wanted to destroy all of Europe, including police, jewels, Russians, and the Baltic States(all these Nations he wanted to exterminate) we liberated these countries from Hitler. Further divided Europe between America England and the Soviet Union(Yalta conference), in my opinion it is fair. Crimea has always been a part of Russia since the 1400's. Lenin Created Ukraine in the early 20th century. And Brezhnev in the middle of the 20th century gate of Crimea to Ukraine, illegally. during the second world war we lost about 40 000 000 people(it was a brutal war)That's called making a deal with the devil. "Divided" didn't mean "possession". We don't own any country other than our own. We rebuilt Western Europe and turned it back over to them.

The fact is, ALL countries occupied by the Soviet Union after WWII was illegal. Brezhnev may have not had the right to give Crimea back to Ukraine in YOUR point of view. In the World's point of view, Russia didn't have the right to occupy Ukraine indefinitely to begin with. Your colonial mindset is rather enlightening though. Foreign nations are not possessions. But you seem to think they are.

[Papokarlo]

That's called making a deal with the devil. "Divided" didn't mean "possession". We don't own any country other than our own. We rebuilt Western Europe and turned it back over to them.

The fact is, ALL countries occupied by the Soviet Union after WWII was illegal. Brezhnev may have not had the right to give Crimea back to Ukraine in YOUR point of view. In the World's point of view, Russia didn't have the right to occupy Ukraine indefinitely to begin with. Your colonial mindset is rather enlightening though. Foreign nations are not possessions. But you seem to think they are.
we could drive Hitler to our border, in which case he would have destroyed Ukraine, Poland and others. he wanted to destroy them as a nation.

half of the Soviet Union's population died 40,000,000 people, and you dare say that we have occupied something there? (I don't even want to discuss it) and how many Americans died? for it is written in your books that you defeated Hitler.

[Gunny]

we could drive Hitler to our border, in which case he would have destroyed Ukraine, Poland and others. he wanted to destroy them as a nation.

half of the Soviet Union's population died 40,000,000 people, and you dare say that we have occupied something there? (I don't even want to discuss it) and how many Americans died? for it is written in your books that you defeated Hitler.What is your point about Hitler? What exactly did he do that Russia has not done or is not doing?

And yes, I DARE. WWII ENDED in 1945. 70 years ago. Just how long does the rational mind think it's okay to take it out on the ancestors what their forefathers did? I mean, you enslaved nations until 1990 when you had to let them go because you couldn't afford them. You've forcefully driven people from their lands. You completely killed or deported to gulags over half the population of Latvia.

Where is it you are acting any differently than the man you so fear, Hitler?

[Papokarlo]

What is your point about Hitler? What exactly did he do that Russia has not done or is not doing?

And yes, I DARE. WWII ENDED in 1945. 70 years ago. Just how long does the rational mind think it's okay to take it out on the ancestors what their forefathers did? I mean, you enslaved nations until 1990 when you had to let them go because you couldn't afford them. You've forcefully driven people from their lands. You completely killed or deported to gulags over half the population of Latvia.

Where is it you are acting any differently than the man you so fear, Hitler?
you destroyed the Indians, you apologized for that?)))

[Gunny]

you destroyed the Indians, you apologized for that?)))What is it with you Russians and the indians? I haven't destroyed a single one. Why are you living in the past? You have a post-WWII mindset and your justification for what you are doing NOW is some Americans killed some indians a century and a half ago? I'm not responsible for the mindset of people that were dead long before I was alive. I have no doubt for some reason you got your "history" on the Native Americans from John Wayne movies. That's the level you are talking on.

You know what I find ironic? The US and Russia are arguably the most powerful nations at this time. So we're arguing over Crimea and Syria, inconsequential in the big picture, while the "ants" (fundamental islamic extremists and China) are stealing the whole dame picnic from under our feet. Brilliant, that. I just didn't realize hw backwards-assed you think. No wonder we don't get along. Y'all are living in a world that disappeared 50 years ago. You're still worried about Nazi's and Native Americans.

[Papokarlo]

What is it with you Russians and the indians? I haven't destroyed a single one. Why are you living in the past? You have a post-WWII mindset and your justification for what you are doing NOW is some Americans killed some indians a century and a half ago? I'm not responsible for the mindset of people that were dead long before I was alive. I have no doubt for some reason you got your "history" on the Native Americans from John Wayne movies. That's the level you are talking on.

You know what I find ironic? The US and Russia are arguably the most powerful nations at this time. So we're arguing over Crimea and Syria, inconsequential in the big picture, while the "ants" (fundamental islamic extremists and China) are stealing the whole dame picnic from under our feet. Brilliant, that. I just didn't realize hw backwards-assed you think. No wonder we don't get along. Y'all are living in a world that disappeared 50 years ago. You're still worried about Nazi's and Native Americans.
you see that I put a smiley at the end. so it was that smile and all the little jokes.

[Polite Russian]

Guys, all of that Ukrainian shit is much more complicated. You just don't know, what is going on there.
Not all, of cource, but a lot of Western Ukrainians actually support Hitler's ideas. A lot of them pay respect for Ukrainian Rebel Army, that used to fight against USSR.
I have a friend, who was in Crimea, when all of that happened. And another friend was in Crimea after that. Peaceful region. People there really prefer Russia to Ukraine. Ukraine is a shitti state. I was there a long time ago, I remember :D And I was in Crimea, when it was in Ukraine. Regular folks complained, that Ukraine authorities forced teachers to use Ukrainian language, while they are teaching kids. But nobody actually knows Ukrainian there. Donbass and Crimea always used to speak Russian. And they do not want some western Ukrainians, who took the power by force, btw, tell them what to do, how they shoud live, why they shoud theach their children, that Ukrainian Rebel Army, the SS Division "Galichina" are heroes, while this guys killed their grandfathers.
This is not a fucking RT propaganda, not TV-words. That is what I heard from people, who live and fight there. Without all that political shit. I'm talking about people now. Fuck politicians.

The Crimean actions was the only thing, that I supported. Because I think, that it is fair. Not because we made some geopolitical shit, but because we actually saved a lot of people. If we did not secure Crimea, than there, probably gonna be a slaughter too, just as it is in Donbass.

And again. You hear it from a person, who do not support any shit, our government is doing. Bunch of thiefes and mafia. Nothing more

[Polite Russian]

oh, btw, I want to go to Crimea in summer, I will definitely gonna share some photos and my impressions with you :)

[Gunny]

oh, btw, I want to go to Crimea in summer, I will definitely gonna share some photos and my impressions with you :)How and when did Ukraine take Crimea by force? Papokarlo stated Crimea was illegally given away by Brezhnev. Now you are saying it was taken by force by Ukraine.

Let's keep one thing in mind off from the top, I have little interest in the internal politics. People that think Hitler was a hero need their brains examined. The legal points I have made are from NATO and the UN. The accusation is theirs, and Ukraine's. It isn't that I'm trying to not have an opinion. It's that I'm trying to get the info to form one. Two sides of a story is better than one. Whether or not a peninsula in the Black Sea between Russia and Ukraine belongs to one of the other isn't of much importance to me.

The allegation by Ukraine, NATO and the UN is that Russia has illegally taken by force and annexed a portion of a sovereign nation. It doesn't seem Russia has presented any justification acceptable to any of the parties and they are now just met with Putin's belligerence.

So who exactly from Ukraine was part of the 3d Reich and were they because they wanted to be, or were they given little choice? I mean, stuck between "Join the 3rd Reich or die" and "Join the Soviet Army or die" doesn't seem like a very good place to find one's self in. What part of the country is that in? The West, I assume.

I don't see much as far as the language thing goes. At least for now, you have to speak English in this country and school is taught in English and whatever is left of our history is what is taught. Trust me, a lot of people don't like the BS the left teaches our children in school. They completely re-write history.

[Gunny]

Interesting. One quarter of Soviet losses in WWII were Ukrainian. Russians forced Ukrainians to speak only Russian. So that's a turn about is fair play thing. I guess no one wants to lose their ethnicity.

It looks as though Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union since WWII, and prior to that split between Russia and Poland. Must have some nice real estate there for everyone to want to take it.

[Polite Russian]

How and when did Ukraine take Crimea by force? Papokarlo stated Crimea was illegally given away by Brezhnev. Now you are saying it was taken by force by Ukraine.

Let's keep one thing in mind off from the top, I have little interest in the internal politics. People that think Hitler was a hero need their brains examined. The legal points I have made are from NATO and the UN. The accusation is theirs, and Ukraine's. It isn't that I'm trying to not have an opinion. It's that I'm trying to get the info to form one. Two sides of a story is better than one. Whether or not a peninsula in the Black Sea between Russia and Ukraine belongs to one of the other isn't of much importance to me.

The allegation by Ukraine, NATO and the UN is that Russia has illegally taken by force and annexed a portion of a sovereign nation. It doesn't seem Russia has presented any justification acceptable to any of the parties and they are now just met with Putin's belligerence.

So who exactly from Ukraine was part of the 3d Reich and were they because they wanted to be, or were they given little choice? I mean, stuck between "Join the 3rd Reich or die" and "Join the Soviet Army or die" doesn't seem like a very good place to find one's self in. What part of the country is that in? The West, I assume.

I don't see much as far as the language thing goes. At least for now, you have to speak English in this country and school is taught in English and whatever is left of our history is what is taught. Trust me, a lot of people don't like the BS the left teaches our children in school. They completely re-write history.



I dont remember being said, that Ukriane took Crimea by force. Papokarlo is right, it was given away by Brezhnev. And before that Ukraine ALLWAYS was a part of Russian Empire. The whole Russia starts from Ukraine. As we say here, Kiev - Mother of Russian Cities.

Look, I think, that USSR and Hiler both looks like a Nature's mistakes.

Well, we here see a lot about language :D I don't know how to explain.
But just for example. Ukraine have a voulonteer batallion, called in the name of Johar Dudaev. The dude, who started all that stuff with chechen wars. If you want to find out about how chechens fought, just look at isis. No difference. And Johar Dudaev was a chechen leader. He and his field commanders, like Shamil Basaev responcible for a lot of terrorist attacks. And this guys are heroes. Ukrainian goernment support that battalion. They have the "Right Sector" battalions, who even do not hide their sympathy to Hitler (Marches with Torches included).

I'm not sayin, that Russia is the saint. Of cource not. But after what I have seen, what my friends have seen, I can't stand with sombody, who can call himself a Ukrainian patriot. As we say here, all good Ukrainians usually call themself Russians.

It's something about that times, when USSR draw borders of republicks. Ukraine consists of 3 parts. Western, Central and Eastern. On the East we have ethnical Russians. On the West - some mix of russian, polish and there is a land in Ukraine, called Halichina (or something like that, I don't know, honestly how to write it correctly on english). Central Ukraine usually just don't give a shit how to call themselves. But they usualy speak russian. I can mistake, but when I spoke to people from there, and ask how they identify themselfes, they usualy answer something like "I live in Ukraine, but I'm Russian".


And again. It is complicated. A lot of factors to notice.
It's not just about evil Russia attacked poor Ukraine. There is an old conflict.
Damn, it is hard to describe, using letters, it is easier to say. :D

[Polite Russian]

Interesting. One quarter of Soviet losses in WWII were Ukrainian. Russians forced Ukrainians to speak only Russian. So that's a turn about is fair play thing. I guess no one wants to lose their ethnicity.

It looks as though Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union since WWII, and prior to that split between Russia and Poland. Must have some nice real estate there for everyone to want to take it.


Ukraine never was a country, untill Lenin and Co ruined Russian Empire and starts to draw new borders. So Lenin, practically, gave a birth to Ukraine. And as far as I know, nobody forced to speak Ukrainians only russian. But now Ukraine made some laws, that restrict to use russian on TV, and somwhere else.

[Balu]

I dont remember being said, that Ukriane took Crimea by force. Papokarlo is right, it was given away by Brezhnev. And before that Ukraine ALLWAYS was a part of Russian Empire. The whole Russia starts from Ukraine. As we say here, Kiev - Mother of Russian Cities.


To be precise not by Brezhnev, but by Khrushchev in 1954 with violation of Legislation.

[jimnyc]

To be precise not by Brezhnev, but by Khrushchev in 1954 with violation of Legislation.

Can you provide the non-violation legislation that shows everything in Crimea is 100% legal, and accepting and binding by all sides?

[Gunny]

Ukraine never was a country, untill Lenin and Co ruined Russian Empire and starts to draw new borders. So Lenin, practically, gave a birth to Ukraine. And as far as I know, nobody forced to speak Ukrainians only russian. But now Ukraine made some laws, that restrict to use russian on TV, and somwhere else.Ukraine was a country. Ukraine declared independence from Russia in 1991 and Russia did nothing. It was formally recognized by Boris Yeltsin as an independent nation on Dec 25, 1991. The Soviet Union was officially dissolved on 26 Dec 1991. Almost every country in the World recognized Ukraine's independence. Therein lies Russia's problem. It was recognized by the world as a sovereign nation, and has a permanent seat on the UN Security Council which was arranged by the US and the Soviet Union when the UN was first organized.

Lenin was the one that annexed Ukraine to the Soviet Union. When he died, Stalin basically starved Ukraine to death by taking all the wheat from them. They kept resisting his communist rule so he basically destroyed the population. Stalin was a nut case as bad or worse than Hitler. He just killed anyone that opposed him.



There's a history here http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/stalin.htm Just one of the things I read.

Are chechens muslims?

[Gunny]

Oh, and I thought you were referring to WWII Nazi's not Neo-Nazi's being used as freedom fighters. Poor choice of "freedom fighters" if you ask me. I think I'd prefer someone else. Neo-Nazi's here in the US are dumbasses and discriminated against by just about everyone. Nobody takes them seriously. Well, except the Jews. They are usually sounding the alarm about something they consider antisemitic like it's the end of the world.

[Drummond]

oh, btw, I want to go to Crimea in summer, I will definitely gonna share some photos and my impressions with you :)

I look forward to seeing all of that. :)

Might I ask you to be as open-minded on the Crimea issue as you have been on other matters ? Our clear impression is that Putin ruthlessly annexed it ... trying to cover up that fact through a 'Referendum' whose result was a foregone conclusion, returned a vote with improbable figures, and was illegally held in any case. And Putin, having got what he wanted, has since openly said that Crimea will NEVER know autonomy again, free from Russia.

Interesting that he knows how Crimeans will feel - for ALL OF TIME, yet !! - about wanting to be part of Mother Russia. Doesn't that give you pause for thought ?

As for Ukraine .. in the eastern side of it, they're more pro-Russia than the Western side is. Most of Ukraine is desperate to be free ... to live the lives THEY choose for THEMSELVES. Perhaps part of what's 'bad' about Ukraine is that they're so dependent for energy and traded supplies on Russia, that Russia can easily exploit that fact, and reduce their standard of living through attrition tactics ??

Putin would disagree, I'm sure. But there's nothing wrong with freedom. Ukraine doesn't deserve to be pilloried for wanting some for themselves.

Here's a taste of what it's said 'Mother Russia' has given them in the past ... courtesy of Stalin (Gunny has referred to this, above ..) ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor


During the Holodomor millions of inhabitants of Ukraine, the majority of whom were ethnic Ukrainians, died of starvation in a peacetime catastrophe unprecedented in the history of Ukraine. Since 2006, the Holodomor has been recognized by Ukraine and 15 other countries as a genocide of the Ukrainian people carried out by the Soviet government.

Early estimates of the death toll by scholars and government officials varied greatly; anywhere from 1.8 to 12 million ethnic Ukrainians were said to have perished as a result of the famine. Recent research has since narrowed the estimates to between 2.4 and 7.5 million. The exact number of deaths is hard to determine, due to a lack of records, but the number increases significantly when the deaths in heavily Ukrainian-populated Kuban are included. Older estimates are still often cited in political commentary. According to the findings of the Court of Appeal of Kiev in 2010, the demographic losses due to the famine amounted to 10 million, with 3.9 million direct famine deaths, and a further 6.1 million birth deficit.

Some scholars believe that the famine was planned by Joseph Stalin to eliminate a Ukrainian independence movement. Using Holodomor in reference to the famine emphasises its man-made aspects, arguing that actions such as rejection of outside aid, confiscation of all household foodstuffs, and restriction of population movement confer intent, defining the famine as genocide; the loss of life has been compared to that of the Holocaust. The causes are still a subject of academic debate, and some historians dispute its characterization as a genocide.

Disgusting, isn't it ?

I invite you to consider all of this when considering Ukraine's desperate desire to live their OWN lives, in their OWN way.

[Gunny]

I look forward to seeing all of that. :)

Might I ask you to be as open-minded on the Crimea issue as you have been on other matters ? Our clear impression is that Putin ruthlessly annexed it ... trying to cover up that fact through a 'Referendum' whose result was a foregone conclusion, returned a vote with improbable figures, and was illegally held in any case. And Putin, having got what he wanted, has since openly said that Crimea will NEVER know autonomy again, free from Russia.

Interesting that he knows how Crimeans will feel - for ALL OF TIME, yet !! - about wanting to be part of Mother Russia. Doesn't that give you pause for thought ?

As for Ukraine .. in the eastern side of it, they're more pro-Russia than the Western side is. Most of Ukraine is desperate to be free ... to live the lives THEY choose for THEMSELVES. Perhaps part of what's 'bad' about Ukraine is that they're so dependent for energy and traded supplies on Russia, that Russia can easily exploit that fact, and reduce their standard of living through attrition tactics ??

Putin would disagree, I'm sure. But there's nothing wrong with freedom. Ukraine doesn't deserve to be pilloried for wanting some for themselves.

Here's a taste of what it's said 'Mother Russia' has given them in the past ... courtesy of Stalin ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor



Disgusting, isn't it ?

I invite you to consider all of this when considering Ukraine's desperate desire to live their OWN lives, in their OWN way.Yeah. I bet he thinks we won't hold him to those pictures :)

[Drummond]

Risking displeasure from certain very pro-Russian contributors here (oh, I'm SO worried about that !!:laugh::laugh::laugh:) ... I'm posting this.

Zlata Ognevich ... a Ukrainian, a passionate freedom-fighter for Ukraine's continued independence .. a stellar personality, and quite nice to look at, too !

I find her inspiring. Considering also that her parents are stuck in Crimea, and refuse to take out Russian citizenship.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYOKrLtnBFY

[Gunny]

I wouldn't worry about it. I got polite russian to translate a Ukrainian song for me. It's in the music subforum. It's about a duck :laugh: How the Hell am I supposed to know? It had the whole little coach's section on the Voice Ukraine in tears. I thought it was going to be a "my GF got killed" song :laugh:

[Drummond]

I'll be opening a separate thread on this, where discussion - if any - should be principally conducted, of course.

But this is a story that's been brewing for a couple of days. Tonight, our police finally categorised it as a murder investigation.

Yes. This is another Russian, a businessman, who has been living in the UK. He was an outspoken critic of Putin. And now, he's dead.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43433552

Considering the other chemical poisoning case, our police are evidently being VERY careful as to how they approach this investigation. Nonetheless ....


UK police have launched a murder investigation after the death of Russian businessman Nikolai Glushkov in south-west London.

Mr Glushkov was found dead at his home in New Malden on 12 March.

A post-mortem examination revealed Mr Glushkov, who was 68, died from "compression to the neck".

There is, at this stage, no evidence linking the death to the attempted murder of a former Russian spy and his daughter in Salisbury, police say.

Detectives are retaining an open mind and are appealing for any information that will assist the investigation.

In particular, they are appealing for anyone who may have seen or heard anything suspicious at or near his home in Clarence Avenue, New Malden, between Sunday 11 March and Monday 12 March to contact them.

Police on Friday continued to guard the home lived in by Mr Glushkov. A blue and a purple tent was erected to cover the front drive of the property, which has been cordoned off along with several adjoining properties either side.

Mr Glushkov is the former deputy director of Russian state airline Aeroflot.

He was jailed in 1999 for five years after being charged with money laundering and fraud.

After being given a suspended sentence for another count of fraud in 2006, he was granted political asylum in the UK in 2010 and became a critic of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Former PR and advertising executive Lord Bell, who was a close friend of Mr Glushkov, described him as a "very charming, funny, affectionate man who had a troubled past".

He said he was "concerned" his friend's past might have made Russia consider him to have worked against the state.

[Gunny]

I posted something on this hen it happened. I just don't recall if I posted it inside one of these existing threads or if I started a new one. Didn't get much attention either way.

"Compression to the neck" huh? :rolleyes:

[Drummond]

I posted something on this hen it happened. I just don't recall if I posted it inside one of these existing threads or if I started a new one. Didn't get much attention either way.

"Compression to the neck" huh? :rolleyes:

Indeed ... :rolleyes:

I'll see if I can find your post, Gunny [LATE EDIT .. FOUND & ADDED TO ..]

Our police are being ultra-cautious with this one. Nonetheless, it was BBC News's lead story on our 'News at 10' broadcast tonight, and is dominating news coverage here.

I'll state the blindingly obvious (... subject to any evidence coming along which somehow proves me wrong !! ...). Putin, it certainly appears, is dealing with old adversaries in his own, murderous, way. Settling scores. Timed to coincide with an imminent election, it seems even more obvious, now, that Putin's sending a message saying 'cross me, EVER, and forever fear for your life &/or wellbeing'.

Hitler would've approved ? I certainly think so.

[Gunny]

Indeed ... :rolleyes:

I'll see if I can find your post, Gunny [LATE EDIT .. FOUND & ADDED TO ..]

Our police are being ultra-cautious with this one. Nonetheless, it was BBC News's lead story on our 'News at 10' broadcast tonight, and is dominating news coverage here.

I'll state the blindingly obvious (... subject to any evidence coming along which somehow proves me wrong !! ...). Putin, it certainly appears, is dealing with old adversaries in his own, murderous, way. Settling scores. Timed to coincide with an imminent election, it seems even more obvious, now, that Putin's sending a message saying 'cross me, EVER, and forever fear for your life &/or wellbeing'.

Hitler would've approved ? I certainly think so.It doesn't make sense. I have a hard time with things that aren't logical. Revenge is an emotional response and a serious flaw in one's character. It definitely brings judgement into play. I don't see where he stands to gain anything. He would be not hurting only himself, but his country as well because of the sanctions.

Maybe he thinks he's untouchable, Who knows? He's been pretty belligerent and threatening in general lately. I figure THAT is posturing for the election. I don't see where assassination helps him.

[Drummond]

It doesn't make sense. I have a hard time with things that aren't logical. Revenge is an emotional response and a serious flaw in one's character. It definitely brings judgement into play. I don't see where he stands to gain anything. He would be not hurting only himself, but his country as well because of the sanctions.

Maybe he thinks he's untouchable, Who knows? He's been pretty belligerent and threatening in general lately. I figure THAT is posturing for the election. I don't see where assassination helps him.

I think he's so consumed with his own sense of power, that he does think he's untouchable. Observe a typical 'Balu' posting, and I think that massive pride in military strength, along with the arrogant boasting about it, illustrates a typical Putin thought process.

So bankrupt is this form of thinking that decency, civilised conduct, keeping to decent values, and having these MATTER ... these don't enter into it.

He has the 'Might'. Therefore, he's 'Right'. All he needs do, he thinks, is to make sure that everyone's fully aware of it, and then, to his way of thinking, all is suddenly right with the world.

Absolutely nothing else matters to the likes of Putin.

And this is why he's such a danger to world security.

[Polite Russian]

I look forward to seeing all of that. :)

Might I ask you to be as open-minded on the Crimea issue as you have been on other matters ? Our clear impression is that Putin ruthlessly annexed it ... trying to cover up that fact through a 'Referendum' whose result was a foregone conclusion, returned a vote with improbable figures, and was illegally held in any case. And Putin, having got what he wanted, has since openly said that Crimea will NEVER know autonomy again, free from Russia.

Interesting that he knows how Crimeans will feel - for ALL OF TIME, yet !! - about wanting to be part of Mother Russia. Doesn't that give you pause for thought ?

As for Ukraine .. in the eastern side of it, they're more pro-Russia than the Western side is. Most of Ukraine is desperate to be free ... to live the lives THEY choose for THEMSELVES. Perhaps part of what's 'bad' about Ukraine is that they're so dependent for energy and traded supplies on Russia, that Russia can easily exploit that fact, and reduce their standard of living through attrition tactics ??

Putin would disagree, I'm sure. But there's nothing wrong with freedom. Ukraine doesn't deserve to be pilloried for wanting some for themselves.

Here's a taste of what it's said 'Mother Russia' has given them in the past ... courtesy of Stalin (Gunny has referred to this, above ..) ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor



Disgusting, isn't it ?

I invite you to consider all of this when considering Ukraine's desperate desire to live their OWN lives, in their OWN way.





Untill the USSR there was no Ukraine :D
There was Malorussia region (or Littlerussia). Before that part of those lands was held by Poland. But there was a looong time ago. When the revolution of 1917 begin, there was a lot of separatist actions. Finland, for example. It is funny, somebody here call Finland is a country, where White's was victorious. Maybe the whole Russia coud be a better place, if the Last true European Russians (the White Army) coud defeat all of commie shit-heads.

And I'm not telling you, that we need all the Ukraine :D I just think, that Russians of the Ukraine (and there are A LOT) have right to live on their land as they want. Ukrainian government do not accept their will. And here goes the war.

Damn, I'll be honest with you, it's hard to discuss such complicated theme using english :D
I feel, that I just don't know how to say properly some things

[Drummond]

Untill the USSR there was no Ukraine :D
There was Malorussia region (or Littlerussia). Before that part of those lands was held by Poland. But there was a looong time ago. When the revolution of 1917 begin, there was a lot of separatist actions. Finland, for example. It is funny, somebody here call Finland is a country, where White's was victorious. Maybe the whole Russia coud be a better place, if the Last true European Russians (the White Army) coud defeat all of commie shit-heads.

And I'm not telling you, that we need all the Ukraine :D I just think, that Russians of the Ukraine (and there are A LOT) have right to live on their land as they want. Ukrainian government do not accept their will. And here goes the war.

Damn, I'll be honest with you, it's hard to discuss such complicated theme using english :D
I feel, that I just don't know how to say properly some things

Well ... even if it's true that Ukraine didn't exist before the USSR, how does that make the smallest difference to their having the right to be a separate country, NOW ?

If they want to be ... if they're distinct as a real, separate nation, then why on earth not ?

I also understand that the eastern part of Ukraine is more pro-Russian than the Western half. So, why don't the pro-Russians live exclusively in the east ?

That said .. you may be arguing, in practical terms, for a carving-up of the country ? For a diminishment of its size, and so its very viability ?

A better solution may be for those who feel strongly enough to actually go and live in Russia. And let the rest choose, and be FREE to choose, their own path.

In the meantime, Russia is fighting its war of attrition. Making Ukraine so dependent upon it that it CANNOT thrive without Russian help. Which gives Putin, on so-called 'humanitarian' grounds, to just walk in, claim Ukraine is a failed State, and needs Russia's 'kindly' rule.

How very convenient.

Goodbye, Ukraine's autonomy. Hello, another period of Russian dictatorship .....

... and let's hope they survive it, better than they survived Stalin's rule !!!!

[Elessar]

Risking displeasure from certain very pro-Russian contributors here (oh, I'm SO worried about that !!:laugh::laugh::laugh:) ... I'm posting this.

Zlata Ognevich ... a Ukrainian, a passionate freedom-fighter for Ukraine's continued independence .. a stellar personality, and quite nice to look at, too !

I find her inspiring. Considering also that her parents are stuck in Crimea, and refuse to take out Russian citizenship.


She is outstanding as a singer, too.

[Polite Russian]

Well ... even if it's true that Ukraine didn't exist before the USSR, how does that make the smallest difference to their having the right to be a separate country, NOW ?

If they want to be ... if they're distinct as a real, separate nation, then why on earth not ?

I also understand that the eastern part of Ukraine is more pro-Russian than the Western half. So, why don't the pro-Russians live exclusively in the east ?

That said .. you may be arguing, in practical terms, for a carving-up of the country ? For a diminishment of its size, and so its very viability ?

A better solution may be for those who feel strongly enough to actually go and live in Russia. And let the rest choose, and be FREE to choose, their own path.

In the meantime, Russia is fighting its war of attrition. Making Ukraine so dependent upon it that it CANNOT thrive without Russian help. Which gives Putin, on so-called 'humanitarian' grounds, to just walk in, claim Ukraine is a failed State, and needs Russia's 'kindly' rule.

How very convenient.

Goodbye, Ukraine's autonomy. Hello, another period of Russian dictatorship .....

... and let's hope they survive it, better than they survived Stalin's rule !!!!






Because Donbass people want to be Russians, but they also want to live on their land. This is not Ukrainian government's lands. It belong to people. And people are fighting for their land.
Before that conflict we were in peace and call each other "brothers" (except that Ukraine Rebel Army fan club, they always was an enemies. As I know, they even fought against our forces in 1 Chechen conflict).
But now there are a lot of propaganda in both sides. We call them nazis, they call us nazis. I, actually, don't know, what to believe. I know, that our mass media give us a lot of crap. But the Ukrainian mass media give even worse shit. Their "info" almost immediately became a meme here.
The problem of Ukraine is that it is the same, as in Russia. Stupid, incompetent leaders, total corruption. Young people there want to leave the country. Here the same. I don't know anybody, who will not run away, if they have the opportunity.

[Polite Russian]

and let's hope they survive it, better than they survived Stalin's rule !!!!


And Ukraine was not the only one republic, that suffered because of soviet government. The whole USSR was a fucking mistake, that cost millions of lifes

[Drummond]

She is outstanding as a singer, too.

Absolutely !! She represented Ukraine in the Eurovision song contest.

This is one lady who can REALLY belt out a song !!

Here's Zlata, doing just that, a few years ago ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMxpv8naRd8

[Drummond]

And Ukraine was not the only one republic, that suffered because of soviet government. The whole USSR was a fucking mistake, that cost millions of lifes

Agreed. Absolutely. WELL SAID. :clap::clap:

Even so, it's a fact that Ukraine DID suffer enormously (millions of lives were lost in Ukraine alone !). It's more than understandable that many if not most in that country will be no less than desperate to cut all ties with Russia, permanently.

... and with Putin, the ex-KGB colonel ......

[Drummond]

Because Donbass people want to be Russians, but they also want to live on their land. This is not Ukrainian government's lands. It belong to people. And people are fighting for their land.
Before that conflict we were in peace and call each other "brothers" (except that Ukraine Rebel Army fan club, they always was an enemies. As I know, they even fought against our forces in 1 Chechen conflict).
But now there are a lot of propaganda in both sides. We call them nazis, they call us nazis. I, actually, don't know, what to believe. I know, that our mass media give us a lot of crap. But the Ukrainian mass media give even worse shit. Their "info" almost immediately became a meme here.
The problem of Ukraine is that it is the same, as in Russia. Stupid, incompetent leaders, total corruption. Young people there want to leave the country. Here the same. I don't know anybody, who will not run away, if they have the opportunity.

If it helps you decide who are or are not the Nazis ... Ukraine hasn't attacked British soil with any chemical weapons. They regard NATO, in fact, as their friend, I understand. Russia, undoubtedly, HAS attacked us with chemical weapons. It's been killing its opposition. And it doesn't care if others die who are in range, either.

Hitler did that sort of thing, in spades ....

I don't usually use Al Jazeera for material. Here, though, they are helpful ...

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/02/nato-calls-russia-stop-violence-ukraine-170202054257166.html


NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg has called on Russia to use its "considerable influence" to end fighting in eastern Ukraine after a renewed surge in violence there.

Moscow-backed rebels and government forces have traded blame for the flare-up in the industrial east that has seen the highest casualty rate since mid-December and cut off power and water to thousands of civilians on both sides of the front line.

The shelling eased on Wednesday, but the January 29 to 31 clashes near the Kiev-held frontline town of Avdiyivka brought the festering conflict back into focus amid warnings of a looming humanitarian crisis.

"We call for an immediate return to the ceasefire," Stoltenberg said in Brussels. "We call on Russia to use its considerable influence over the separatists to bring the violence to an end."

Hitler believed in 'Might is Right'. We are very clear, over here in the West, that Putin sees his approach to international affairs in much the same way.

Hitler annexed Austria. Putin annexed Crimea. Good luck in spotting meaningful differences ....

[Gunny]

Untill the USSR there was no Ukraine :D
There was Malorussia region (or Littlerussia). Before that part of those lands was held by Poland. But there was a looong time ago. When the revolution of 1917 begin, there was a lot of separatist actions. Finland, for example. It is funny, somebody here call Finland is a country, where White's was victorious. Maybe the whole Russia coud be a better place, if the Last true European Russians (the White Army) coud defeat all of commie shit-heads.

And I'm not telling you, that we need all the Ukraine :D I just think, that Russians of the Ukraine (and there are A LOT) have right to live on their land as they want. Ukrainian government do not accept their will. And here goes the war.

Damn, I'll be honest with you, it's hard to discuss such complicated theme using english :D
I feel, that I just don't know how to say properly some thingsFinland has been a country since the Stone Age. It lost some land to the Soviets, but the Fins (who WERE aided by the White Russians) managed to keep its autonomy. The Soviets demanded war reparations after WWII and the Fins had to industrialize to pay them back. What the reparations were for beats me, and why Finland paid them is also a mystery to me. It's basically rated as one THE best countries in the world to live in.

Must be too cold there or that rating of best country to live in would definitely bring about its ruin. Every loser in the world would descend on the place.

The "Nazi" thing sounds like the left and right, politically, here in the US. The left calls the right Nazi's when it is they who are the Nazi's. Socialists that run around in mobs rioting and destroying things (in the name of "peace" no less) and thinking freedom of speech means you can speak what they tell you is about as Nazi as it gets.

Politics are weird. I heard at some point that Ukrainians who joined the 3rd Reich did so because they hated Stalin. A lot of the world's current alliances are completely stupid but based on some real or imagined viewpoint. The people and their cultures are secondary to lines drawn in the sand. From what I read, Ukraine could very-well be 3 different countries.

My point is simple, and not to pass judgement because I listen to what you are saying about the people. I also know what the law says. Russia defined the boundaries of Ukraine in the 1920s. They accepted them as boundaries all during the Soviet era, and when the Soviet Union officially dissolved and recognized those boundaries. Russia violated the law by its own agreements.

That is why Russia is considered the bad guys in this instance. It isn't acceptable anymore to just take a country or a portion of it just because you want to. That quit being acceptable in the 1950s.

It'll be awhile before anyone accepts Russia's claim, if they ever do. As the Nations are now, they will not.

I have a totally off-topic question that has nothing to do with politics. If I have a Russian girlfriend who speaks only Russian and I do not, am I still in as much trouble as I am when some American girl is yelling at me for some perceived slight? Or is it different since I can't understand a word she's saying? :)
.

[Polite Russian]

I have a totally off-topic question that has nothing to do with politics. If I have a Russian girlfriend who speaks only Russian and I do not, am I still in as much trouble as I am when some American girl is yelling at me for some perceived slight? Or is it different since I can't understand a word she's saying? :)
.


Depends on girl, I think :D
And it is complicated to get a girlfriend, if you don't understand anything?
Bbbbut I think, that because of that you will be in less trouble :D
But I never was under US girl's yelling, so, who knows.





Guys, I don't think, that I can answer to all of that :D
I really believe, that the annexion of Crimea was not a mistake (the only one notamistake for a long time). I don't think, that I can convince you to take my side. But you can't convince me, that it was bad.
I know your position, you know mine, but nor you, or me can do anything with the reality. As I know, people of Crimea think, that their life become better. And that, as I think, is important.
And I think, that it's only our buisness. No offence.

[Gunny]

Depends on girl, I think :D
And it is complicated to get a girlfriend, if you don't understand anything?
Bbbbut I think, that because of that you will be in less trouble :D
But I never was under US girl's yelling, so, who knows.





Guys, I don't think, that I can answer to all of that :D
I really believe, that the annexion of Crimea was not a mistake (the only one notamistake for a long time). I don't think, that I can convince you to take my side. But you can't convince me, that it was bad.
I know your position, you know mine, but nor you, or me can do anything with the reality. As I know, people of Crimea think, that their life become better. And that, as I think, is important.
And I think, that it's only our buisness. No offence.Had Russia not acknowledged Ukraine's declaration of independence and recognized it as a sovereign nation I would agree it would be your business. Since most of the world recognizes Ukraine as a sovereign nation and has since 1991, it is the world's business from a legal standpoint.

I'm more than willing to let the world figure it out too. If it was that important to them, NATO should have acted immediately; otherwise, what is NATO worth?

I think women are the same everywhere which means I would be in just as much trouble there as here. I've just got it like that :laugh:

[Polite Russian]

Had Russia not acknowledged Ukraine's declaration of independence and recognized it as a sovereign nation I would agree it would be your business. Since most of the world recognizes Ukraine as a sovereign nation and has since 1991, it is the world's business from a legal standpoint.

I'm more than willing to let the world figure it out too. If it was that important to them, NATO should have acted immediately; otherwise, what is NATO worth?

I think women are the same everywhere which means I would be in just as much trouble there as here. I've just got it like that :laugh:



You wanna find yourself a Russian girl? :D

[Gunny]

You wanna find yourself a Russian girl? :DHell no. I'm a bit older than you. Girls and I don't get along. It's not that I don't like them. They just get mad at me all the time :laugh2:

I don't even know what the American ones are pissed off at half the time and I CAN understand what they are saying. All I need is one I can't even understand WTF I'm getting bitched out about :laugh:

[Papokarlo]

:laugh2::laugh2:How was it "illegally" transferred? From a map, it looks to be part of Ukraine and not Russia. Russia is having to build a bridge to get to it.

You mean it was part of the Soviet Union which was the biggest illegal land grab in the 20th century? The Soviet Union was dissolved BY Russia. Russia didn't want it. Now it does so it just takes the place by force. You can call that whatever you want. It's called unprovoked, armed invasion and occupation by force by any logical mind. Not to mention stealing.
you have outdated maps, we have new ones. while you thought we were a third world country we already built a bridge and it will be launched in may 2018.
its length is 19 km, and Google maps will not show it to you. this information will not show on your TV
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SgVf0nkBPY

[Gunny]

you have outdated maps, we have new ones. while you thought we were a third world country we already built a bridge and it will be launched in may 2018.
its length is 19 km, and Google maps will not show it to you. this information will not show on your TV
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SgVf0nkBPYYOU are what is outdated. I'm well-aware of the bridge and even when it was going to open. A bridge does not change international boundaries.

Sorry. It's an illegal land grab until an international court and the international community say otherwise. All there is to it.

[Papokarlo]

YOU are what is outdated. I'm well-aware of the bridge and even when it was going to open. A bridge does not change international boundaries.

Sorry. It's an illegal land grab until an international court and the international community say otherwise. All there is to it.
in may, they will open the bridge while you think about international law, we will ride on it. and remember in this situation we are right

[Papokarlo]

America didn't ask anyone when it bombed Yugoslavia. America didn't ask anyone when it entered Iraq. The UN security Council did not give America the right.

[Gunny]

in may, they will open the bridge while you think about international law, we will ride on it. and remember in this situation we are rightYou have completely missed the point here, On more than one level.

First, it's YOU crying about some bullshit law you invented and pulled out your ass about the proof of the military grade chemical used to poison the 2 Brits.

Now, for your convenience, international law doesn't matter where Crimea is concerned. So WHICH ONE IS It, COMMIE? It counts or it doesn't but you don't get to pick and choose when it does or doesn't as it suits you.

Second, as I already stated, that bridge doesn't make your claim any more legal than before the bridge. It just means there's a bridge.

[Polite Russian]

Hell no. I'm a bit older than you. Girls and I don't get along. It's not that I don't like them. They just get mad at me all the time :laugh2:

I don't even know what the American ones are pissed off at half the time and I CAN understand what they are saying. All I need is one I can't even understand WTF I'm getting bitched out about :laugh:



hahah, well, you just need to find one :D
Actually we have a lot of calm, cute and reasonable ladies here

[Papokarlo]

You have completely missed the point here, On more than one level.

First, it's YOU crying about some bullshit law you invented and pulled out your ass about the proof of the military grade chemical used to poison the 2 Brits.

Now, for your convenience, international law doesn't matter where Crimea is concerned. So WHICH ONE IS It, COMMIE? It counts or it doesn't but you don't get to pick and choose when it does or doesn't as it suits you.

Second, as I already stated, that bridge doesn't make your claim any more legal than before the bridge. It just means there's a bridge.
we take the example from America:
America didn't ask anyone when it bombed Yugoslavia. America didn't ask anyone when it entered Iraq. The UN security Council did not give America the right.

[Gunny]

hahah, well, you just need to find one :D
Actually we have a lot of calm, cute and reasonable ladies hereI always pick selfish psycho's. I'm like a magnet for them. :laugh:

[Papokarlo]

America and Europe panic because Russia is getting out of their control

[aboutime]

we take the example from America:
America didn't ask anyone when it bombed Yugoslavia. America didn't ask anyone when it entered Iraq. The UN security Council did not give America the right.


Khruschev didn't ask anybody when he sent Nuclear Missiles to Cuba in the 60's either.

If you are looking to play TIT for TAT. Remember...if you take example from the U.S.

We won TWO WORLD WARS, one that included Stalin, and how did that work out for you?

[aboutime]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5841519/russian-elections-presidential-rigged-nuns-footage-latest/

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/nintchdbpict000393154784.jpg?strip=all&w=960

[Gunny]

America and Europe panic because Russia is getting out of their controlThat was dumb. When was Russia ever in America's control? Oh yeah. Never.

If you're going to pick a fight, try to educate yourself. You sound like some playground punk. We don't care about Russia. DO try to understand. Nothing personal. You're just another place.

You're the one concerned about what people think. You should work on that. It shows a serious lack of self-confidence.

[aboutime]

America and Europe panic because Russia is getting out of their control


Do you even have any idea how dumb you sound? If you are convinced America, and Europe are in a panic. You should talk to Putin himself.
Europe looks to Putin for Natural Gas supplies...which Putin can control the prices of to put Europe in more debt. BUT...thanks to the U.S.A. becoming Energy Self-sufficient, and able to FRACK natural gas of our own...for LESS COST to consumers...Like Europe. PUTIN has no idea where all of his funds will come from to build his military, and STARVE all of you Russian Fools who supported him.

So. If anyone is really in a panic.You should be aware that PUTIN will soon find NO FRIENDS to support his TERROR around the world.

[Drummond]

you have outdated maps, we have new ones. while you thought we were a third world country we already built a bridge and it will be launched in may 2018.
its length is 19 km, and Google maps will not show it to you. this information will not show on your TV
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SgVf0nkBPY

You built a bridge ! Wow. I'm thrilled for you ... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

So what ??

[Drummond]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5841519/russian-elections-presidential-rigged-nuns-footage-latest/

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/nintchdbpict000393154784.jpg?strip=all&w=960

Excellent !

Will the Russian propagandist contingent here just ignore this evidence, or will they be stirred to call it all 'lies' and 'faked' ?

They'll never admit the TRUTH.

Of course ....

[Drummond]

America and Europe panic because Russia is getting out of their control

God. You've just got to love this comedy material !! :laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[Gunny]

The more I see, the more I'm thinking we need to get Maxine Waters on the job after Putin. It might be a stretch, but it appears to me this guy never let go of losing the Cold War and is trying to win it. That's kind of :cuckoo:

[Papokarlo]

Khruschev didn't ask anybody when he sent Nuclear Missiles to Cuba in the 60's either.

If you are looking to play TIT for TAT. Remember...if you take example from the U.S.

We won TWO WORLD WARS, one that included Stalin, and how did that work out for you?

it was a response to the fact that America planned missions in Turkey.learn the history

[Papokarlo]

That was dumb. When was Russia ever in America's control? Oh yeah. Never.

If you're going to pick a fight, try to educate yourself. You sound like some playground punk. We don't care about Russia. DO try to understand. Nothing personal. You're just another place.

You're the one concerned about what people think. You should work on that. It shows a serious lack of self-confidence.

some countries hunt oil and gas in Russia

[Papokarlo]

You built a bridge ! Wow. I'm thrilled for you ... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

So what ??

Putin has built a bridge with Russia
in may, the startup will soon ride on it

[Papokarlo]

the scientists of the world are already talking about the fact that America is too strong engaged in Russia and missed the development of China
America and Europe are becoming harder and harder to contain Russia. The doctrine of America says that Russia should restrain that Russia is an enemy
it was not my idea

[jimnyc]

Putin has built a bridge with Russia
in may, the startup will soon ride on it

Did you see Putin's buddies cheating away yesterday?

[Balu]

Statement of the presidential administration (Top Secret)

- for the great achievements in strengthening the consolidation of the society of Russia and the existing state power during conduct of election campaign, award the Order of Merit to the Fatherland of the 1st degree with the appointment of the corresponding monthly remuneration to the following trustees of President Putin:
- Elizabeth II - Her Majesty the Queen of the UK and Northern Ireland
- Theresa May - Prime Minister of the UK;
- Boris Johnson - Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs;

http://progorodsamara.ru/userfiles/picoriginal/img-20150121213356-386.jpg

To award the Order of Merit to the Fatherland of the 2nd degree with the appointment of the corresponding monthly remuneration to the following agents:
- Nimrata Nikki Randhawa Haley - United States Ambassador to the United Nations;
- Petro Poroshenko - President of Ukraine.

http://www.gosnagrada.ru/images/1stobsh1.jpg

[jimnyc]

Who gives a crap?

[Drummond]

Putin has built a bridge with Russia
in may, the startup will soon ride on it

Oh, goody. A bridge, people will use.

Wonderful !! :clap::clap:

[Drummond]

Statement of the presidential administration (Top Secret)

- for the great achievements in strengthening the consolidation of the society of Russia and the existing state power during conduct of election campaign, award the Order of Merit to the Fatherland of the 1st degree with the appointment of the corresponding monthly remuneration to the following trustees of President Putin:
- Elizabeth II - Her Majesty the Queen of the UK and Northern Ireland
- Theresa May - Prime Minister of the UK;
- Boris Johnson - Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs;

http://progorodsamara.ru/userfiles/picoriginal/img-20150121213356-386.jpg

To award the Order of Merit to the Fatherland of the 2nd degree with the appointment of the corresponding monthly remuneration to the following agents:
- Nimrata Nikki Randhawa Haley - United States Ambassador to the United Nations;
- Petro Poroshenko - President of Ukraine.

http://www.gosnagrada.ru/images/1stobsh1.jpg

... not following this ... 'sorry' ....

Are you claiming that the Russian people APPROVE of chemical, military grade, toxins being used on a foreign territory, well within environmental range of the local civilian population ?

Do they think such an outrage is one Putin deserved to arrange ? Will they applaud future such attacks ?

Indeed, do they have a total contempt for international law ?? For human decency ?

Is this what you claim ?

You must be ... since they, ahem, 'approved' of Putin remaining in control, his Party, ditto.

Who are you to so comprehensively insult your OWN people, Balu ??

'Might is Right' ... eh ?

[Balu]

Foreign Office (London) :clap::lol:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StTuMPLi4R0

A fresh Russian joke...

A telephone call to Theresa May's office
- May I speak to Mrs. Prime Minister?
- She's sleeping now.
- Tell her that there was a call from Vladimir IF she wakes up. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/personal/pooh_go.gif

[Drummond]

Foreign Office (London) :clap::lol:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StTuMPLi4R0

A fresh Russian joke...

A telephone call to Theresa May's office
- May I speak to Mrs. Prime Minister?
- She's sleeping now.
- Tell her that there was a call from Vladimir IF she wakes up. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/personal/pooh_go.gif

Sorry ... what ?

IS SHE YOUR NEXT TARGET ???

[Papokarlo]

cont ...http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43088445

BBC FAKE NEWS
it seemed to me that you don't read bbc:laugh:

[Papokarlo]

)

[jimnyc]

BBC FAKE NEWS
it seemed to me that you don't read bbc:laugh:

For someone who doesn't read newspapers and watch TV, you sure do know an awful lot about the writers and agencies - at least when you disagree with them. :)

The beginning of the article states it ALL and states it 100% factually. And not because they may be bad choices, but rather because there was NO choice. Must be odd walking into a polling area - knowing that it's already been decided and you are simply there for comedic pleasure.

"This is the election with no choice."

[Papokarlo]

For someone who doesn't read newspapers and watch TV, you sure do know an awful lot about the writers and agencies - at least when you disagree with them. :)

The beginning of the article states it ALL and states it 100% factually. And not because they may be bad choices, but rather because there was NO choice. Must be odd walking into a polling area - knowing that it's already been decided and you are simply there for comedic pleasure.

"This is the election with no choice."

the fact that it's fake news is not me, it says your President Trump
for you, newspaper headlines are the ultimate truth

[jimnyc]

You can regurgitate your 'fake news' crap about the Russian election from now until you die, it's simply a lie and we aren't stupid.

There was MASS cheating, it's on video, there are pictures of it. There are people who witnessed it. But you simply deny and overlook everything. So there's no point in giving you "proof". Putin himself could come to you and explain it in detail, and you would STILL come here and claim it was legit. You are brainwashed, and it's kinda cute watching a grown man be so.

You are over 18 - correct? Being under 18 would explain a lot, but I'm guessing your older than that.

[Papokarlo]

You can regurgitate your 'fake news' crap about the Russian election from now until you die, it's simply a lie and we aren't stupid.

There was MASS cheating, it's on video, there are pictures of it. There are people who witnessed it. But you simply deny and overlook everything. So there's no point in giving you "proof". Putin himself could come to you and explain it in detail, and you would STILL come here and claim it was legit. You are brainwashed, and it's kinda cute watching a grown man be so.

You are over 18 - correct? Being under 18 would explain a lot, but I'm guessing your older than that.
1600 observers from different countries. you're lying. can you give me one falsification? this link!

[Papokarlo]

Russia reached long ago already not the country that you draw your media.
as long as you think we are a rogue country, we are creating the Shanghai cooperation organization(SOO) & the BRICS. all less and less your opinion on the world arena becomes authoritative in russia.

Russia's liberals are shocked that Putin has 76%, and not even a second round. they don't believe it, they're panicked, their saliva splashes.
the liberals scored a total of 2%
we liberals say that Crimea should return to Ukraine, of course they get no vote

[Gunny]

1600 observers from different countries. you're lying. can you give me one falsification? this link!Did you just call Jim a liar without evidence? Look asshat, get a grip on your little ass. I don't care how they do it in Russia, you don't go calling someone a liar simply for disagreeing with your BS.

BUT ... if you want to play that way ... your entire election was a fraud. Your President is a fraud. So lacking in self-confidence in his ability to win me had to cheat. The whole world knows it.

Ore these observers the same observers that said there were no WMDs in Iraq when we're the ones that sold the WMDs to Saddam to begin with so we knew they were there? Real observant.:rolleyes:

Don't fuck with me asshole or we'll find out just how big yours can get.

[Papokarlo]

Did you just call Jim a liar without evidence? Look asshat, get a grip on your little ass. I don't care how they do it in Russia, you don't go calling someone a liar simply for disagreeing with your BS.

BUT ... if you want to play that way ... your entire election was a fraud. Your President is a fraud. So lacking in self-confidence in his ability to win me had to cheat. The whole world knows it.

Ore these observers the same observers that said there were no WMDs in Iraq when we're the ones that sold the WMDs to Saddam to begin with so we knew they were there? Real observant.:rolleyes:

Don't fuck with me asshole or we'll find out just how big yours can get.
those who does not facts I'm called a liar.
such a phrase as That's all they know, a phrase like - Putin is a thief, a phrase like - Putin is a terrorist. for me, these phrases are empty

[jimnyc]

1600 observers from different countries. you're lying. can you give me one falsification? this link!

I already posted photos, witness statements and video. I couldn't care less if you believe it or not, I KNOW IT'S FACT. The very observers you speak of all know it's a farce.

[Papokarlo]

I already posted photos, witness statements and video. I couldn't care less if you believe it or not, I KNOW IT'S FACT. The very observers you speak of all know it's a farce.
give me a link to these materials, otherwise I'll think it's a lie

[Gunny]

give me a link to these materials, otherwise I'll think it's a lieDitto. Where's YOURS? I haven't seen you back up one word you've posted. Ever. Even Democrats find links to try and support their assinine rhetoric.

[jimnyc]

Russia reached long ago already not the country that you draw your media.
as long as you think we are a rogue country, we are creating the Shanghai cooperation organization(SOO) & the BRICS. all less and less your opinion on the world arena becomes authoritative in russia.

Russia's liberals are shocked that Putin has 76%, and not even a second round. they don't believe it, they're panicked, their saliva splashes.
the liberals scored a total of 2%
we liberals say that Crimea should return to Ukraine, of course they get no vote

If Russia was still powerful, still a "super power" of a country that everyone looked up to and feared as well. But she's not, and I couldn't care less. Just another slowly dying craphole, with a former commie holding onto control via cheating and murder. No legitimacy, only other places fearing is all. But the fear isn't in the USA, none at all. No more than a nicer Venezuela, or Duterte ran 3rd world decaying.... you get the point. There is no authority that anyone around here cares about in the slightest, don't overestimate yourselves. The 76% alone SCREAMS cheating, but the photos and video simply solidify what everyone, including tons of Russians, knew already.

Your propaganda is funny. You are cute, probably even believing the stuff you post. It's funny watching from a distance, seeing how the brainwashed respond.

I guess Baghdad Bob is taken. You are now known as Papa Propaganda. Perhaps even Russia Ricky or something like that. But you are definitely on the same level of lying, or same level of stupidity in believing, take a pick.

[jimnyc]

give me a link to these materials, otherwise I'll think it's a lie

Are you fucking retarded? I already posted a thread on the cheating, where the opening of the thread has the article and link to the story. Now, you COULD even go to google and type in "Putin cheating russia election" and have a FIELD DAY of proof for your pleasure, and your pleasure of a mass amount of propaganda lying to then commence!!

Here, I'll help you, this is a link to what I just stated, and many articles. Hell, I'll help even further and link to the first few pages of goodies, for the lazy like yourself. Happy Denials!!

Following fraud-tainted vote, Putin claims crushing victory in Russian presidential election

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-russia-election-putin-20180318-story.html

Vladimir Putin secures landslide victory in Russian election

Vladimir Putin cruised to victory in Sunday’s presidential elections in a result that was never in question. His fourth term as president will extend until 2024, making him the first Kremlin leader to serve two decades in power since Josef Stalin.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/18/vladimir-putin-wins-russian-election-with-more-than-70-of-vote-exit-poll

Putin claims victory in Russia’s presidential election

MOSCOW – Vladimir Putin cruised to victory Sunday for another six-year presidential term after an election that was long on spectacle and short on suspense.

From the Arctic to the International Space Station, Russia rolled out an elaborate presidential-election-day display designed to show the breadth of Putin’s public support as he extended his tenure for a fourth term to 2024.

Putin’s opponents on Sunday’s ballot included a nationalist, a Communist, and two liberals. But Putin barely campaigned, opposition activist Alexei Navalny was barred from the ballot, and reports of ballot-stuffing and people ordered to vote by their employers rolled in throughout the day.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/18/putin-wins-easily-in-fraud-tainted-russian-vote/

Russian election 2018: Vladimir Putin set to win again

The Russian President is widely tipped to win the vote with few serious political opponents and accusations from the critics that the system is set up to ensure Mr Putin’s success.

A revealing analysis by The Times reveals some of the methods, including massaging votes, which the Kremlin use to ensure victory under its system of “managed democracy”.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/russian-election-2018-vladimir-putin-set-to-win-again/news-story/7569d0c87e583d0a527eb7a9d61030d0

Vladimir Putin posts landslide election victory but opponents allege voter pressure

Allegations staff ordered to show evidence of vote

His nearest challenger, Communist Party candidate Pavel Grudinin, got just over 11 per cent, according to exit polls, while nationalist Vladimir Zhirinovsky got about 6 per cent.

Mr Putin's opponents alleged employers with close ties to the state were ordering staff to go and vote so that a low turnout would not tarnish the win, and send back evidence.

Reporters witnessed multiple people in different locations voting in groups, and then taking photos of themselves in front of the ballot boxes on their phones.

Some arrived at polling stations on board privately-hired buses.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-19/vladimir-putin-russian-election-result-polls-voters/9561654


Russian election 2018: CCTV suggests BLATANT rigging as ballot boxes STUFFED with papers

SHOCKING footage from Russian polling stations appears to show officials helping to rig the Russian presidential election by brazenly stuffing ballot boxes in full view of CCTV cameras.

VIDEO PROOF

According to exit polls, Mr Putin has secured a record fourth term as president after securing nearly three-quarters of the vote.

But CCTV footage said to be taken from inside a polling centre in the Moscow suburb of Lyubertsy appears to show an election official assisting Mr Putin to secure his landslide victory by stuffing a stash of pre-completed voting slips into a ballot box.

Shortly after the first official places the stack of papers inside, a second official adds more.

In another clip, a group of election officials appear to be counting ballot papers before a woman uses a bunch of balloons in a blatant attempt to block the view of the camera.

A third video, reportedly taken in Dagestan, a man can be seen filling a ballot box with voting slips while a woman stands guard.

Another clip from a separate polling station in the same region appears to show a group of men pushing away election observers while another man stuffs the ballot box with voting slips.

Additional footage shot on a mobile phone appears to show a group of nuns marking their ballot papers while the Mother Superior purportedly checks to ensure they have correctly voted for Mr Putin.

As in the UK, election officials are supposed to guarantee the integrity and fairness of the poll, but this set of videos appear to show blatant cheating.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/933630/russian-election-2018-results-vladimir-putin-fix

Victory in Russia Election Assured, Putin Seeks High Turnout

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/world/europe/putin-russia-election.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5514853/Putin-heads-polls.html

[Papokarlo]

Are you fucking retarded? I already posted a thread on the cheating, where the opening of the thread has the article and link to the story. Now, you COULD even go to google and type in "Putin cheating russia election" and have a FIELD DAY of proof for your pleasure, and your pleasure of a mass amount of propaganda lying to then commence!!

Here, I'll help you, this is a link to what I just stated, and many articles. Hell, I'll help even further and link to the first few pages of goodies, for the lazy like yourself. Happy Denials!!

Following fraud-tainted vote, Putin claims crushing victory in Russian presidential election

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-russia-election-putin-20180318-story.html

Vladimir Putin secures landslide victory in Russian election

Vladimir Putin cruised to victory in Sunday’s presidential elections in a result that was never in question. His fourth term as president will extend until 2024, making him the first Kremlin leader to serve two decades in power since Josef Stalin.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/18/vladimir-putin-wins-russian-election-with-more-than-70-of-vote-exit-poll

Putin claims victory in Russia’s presidential election

MOSCOW – Vladimir Putin cruised to victory Sunday for another six-year presidential term after an election that was long on spectacle and short on suspense.

From the Arctic to the International Space Station, Russia rolled out an elaborate presidential-election-day display designed to show the breadth of Putin’s public support as he extended his tenure for a fourth term to 2024.

Putin’s opponents on Sunday’s ballot included a nationalist, a Communist, and two liberals. But Putin barely campaigned, opposition activist Alexei Navalny was barred from the ballot, and reports of ballot-stuffing and people ordered to vote by their employers rolled in throughout the day.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/18/putin-wins-easily-in-fraud-tainted-russian-vote/

Russian election 2018: Vladimir Putin set to win again

The Russian President is widely tipped to win the vote with few serious political opponents and accusations from the critics that the system is set up to ensure Mr Putin’s success.

A revealing analysis by The Times reveals some of the methods, including massaging votes, which the Kremlin use to ensure victory under its system of “managed democracy”.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/russian-election-2018-vladimir-putin-set-to-win-again/news-story/7569d0c87e583d0a527eb7a9d61030d0

Vladimir Putin posts landslide election victory but opponents allege voter pressure

Allegations staff ordered to show evidence of vote

His nearest challenger, Communist Party candidate Pavel Grudinin, got just over 11 per cent, according to exit polls, while nationalist Vladimir Zhirinovsky got about 6 per cent.

Mr Putin's opponents alleged employers with close ties to the state were ordering staff to go and vote so that a low turnout would not tarnish the win, and send back evidence.

Reporters witnessed multiple people in different locations voting in groups, and then taking photos of themselves in front of the ballot boxes on their phones.

Some arrived at polling stations on board privately-hired buses.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-19/vladimir-putin-russian-election-result-polls-voters/9561654


Russian election 2018: CCTV suggests BLATANT rigging as ballot boxes STUFFED with papers

SHOCKING footage from Russian polling stations appears to show officials helping to rig the Russian presidential election by brazenly stuffing ballot boxes in full view of CCTV cameras.

VIDEO PROOF

According to exit polls, Mr Putin has secured a record fourth term as president after securing nearly three-quarters of the vote.

But CCTV footage said to be taken from inside a polling centre in the Moscow suburb of Lyubertsy appears to show an election official assisting Mr Putin to secure his landslide victory by stuffing a stash of pre-completed voting slips into a ballot box.

Shortly after the first official places the stack of papers inside, a second official adds more.

In another clip, a group of election officials appear to be counting ballot papers before a woman uses a bunch of balloons in a blatant attempt to block the view of the camera.

A third video, reportedly taken in Dagestan, a man can be seen filling a ballot box with voting slips while a woman stands guard.

Another clip from a separate polling station in the same region appears to show a group of men pushing away election observers while another man stuffs the ballot box with voting slips.

Additional footage shot on a mobile phone appears to show a group of nuns marking their ballot papers while the Mother Superior purportedly checks to ensure they have correctly voted for Mr Putin.

As in the UK, election officials are supposed to guarantee the integrity and fairness of the poll, but this set of videos appear to show blatant cheating.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/933630/russian-election-2018-results-vladimir-putin-fix

Victory in Russia Election Assured, Putin Seeks High Turnout

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/world/europe/putin-russia-election.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5514853/Putin-heads-polls.html
some nuances are bound to be, this is not to say that stuffing 20, 000, 000 ballots. it's the little things. I thought this was serious.

[jimnyc]

some nuances are bound to be, this is not to say that stuffing 20, 000, 000 ballots. it's the little things. I thought this was serious.

Deny deny deny

The murders, ballot stuffing, blocking ballots, hacking. You scoff, the rest of the world sees what happens and sees the cheating. The rest of the world knows about Russia and their penchant for poisoning and murdering people, and they have recently showed they are still up to par on their way of killing folks.

The serious part you ignore. The seriousness of dead people - you ignore that. A dictator cheating to hold onto rule, and using government money to help terrorism - well you ignore and deny all of that too.

Your denying does very little to exactly nothing. It's simply delusional to yourself. It doesn't change reality - and you sure as shit aren't fooling anyone here - unless of course your goal is to have everyone think you are a delusional propagandist, or an idiot.

1+1 = 2

[jimnyc]

Sir, we have you on film dropping 2,000 votes instead of 1.

Oh, that's no problem, don't worry about me, just a little nuance is all.

Don't worry about us blocking cameras and cheating, it's just a little thing.

Oh, you have an issue with murder, cheating and terrorism? Why, so small an inconsequential. :rolleyes:

Your crap doesn't fly here. You have clearly hit a fan, it has turned around and landed all over your face and head. The fact that you can't recognize shit in your face, well, it speaks volumes.

[Gunny]

some nuances are bound to be, this is not to say that stuffing 20, 000, 000 ballots. it's the little things. I thought this was serious.Seriously? You just lost all credibility.

:buttkick:

[Papokarlo]

40% of the world's population doesn't think so, it's BRICs and SOO countries, we will soon stop paying attention to your screeching

[Gunny]

40% of the world's population doesn't think so, it's BRICs and SOO countries, we will soon stop paying attention to your screeching

Link? What 40%? A list of noncombatant KIAs in Syria?

Ummm .... you are the one that's screeching, bubba. The way you're trying to sell Putin you'd think you were Putin himself or a close relative. I told you PAGES and PAGES ago, nobody here cares. Miss the links Jim provided? There is no surprise here. No secret. No one doubted Putin would win. Been watching your government operate since WAY before YOU were born, slick.

You sound like a little kid:cuckoo:

[Papokarlo]

Link? What 40%? A list of noncombatant KIAs in Syria?

Ummm .... you are the one that's screeching, bubba. The way you're trying to sell Putin you'd think you were Putin himself or a close relative. I told you PAGES and PAGES ago, nobody here cares. Miss the links Jim provided? There is no surprise here. No secret. No one doubted Putin would win. Been watching your government operate since WAY before YOU were born, slick.

You sound like a little kid:cuckoo:
SCO
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A8%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%85%D0%B0%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D 0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0 %B7%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8F_%D1%81%D0%BE%D1%82%D1% 80%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82 %D0%B2%D0%B0
The total population of the countries of the SCO is equal to 3 billion 40 million people

BRICS
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%A0%D0%98%D0%9A%D0%A1
(https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%A0%D0%98%D0%9A%D0%A1)

[Gunny]

SOO
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A8%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%85%D0%B0%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D 0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0 %B7%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8F_%D1%81%D0%BE%D1%82%D1% 80%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82 %D0%B2%D0%B0

BRICS
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%A0%D0%98%D0%9A%D0%A1

Try English. If I run into you on a Russian board, I'll be sure and post in Russian.

[Papokarlo]

Try English. If I run into you on a Russian board, I'll be sure and post in Russian.
SCO
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_the_Shanghai_Cooperation_Organisa tion

BRICS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRICS

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRICS)
maybe it's even 50% of the world's population

there is very little information in English about these organizations

[Papokarlo]

nice translater
https://translate.yandex.ru

[Drummond]

BBC FAKE NEWS
it seemed to me that you don't read bbc:laugh:

You think it's fake news ?

Well, from the link you yourself provided:


Nikita's dream is to become an entertainer. He wants to be like Ivan Urgant, a Russian late-night talk show host similar to Stephen Colbert or Jimmy Kimmel.

"But you can't speak freely on TV," he says. And censorship is not the only problem.

"We live in a feudal state here in Russia," Nikita says. "If I look for a good position after graduation, all the nice posts will be taken by well-connected sons."


I'll let you decide that one.

Perhaps Putin's 76% share of the vote came about, in part, anyway, because his opposition couldn't even get a fair hearing ?

And no doubt the Kremlin won't allow news to be broadcast they don't initially approve of (.. as if I had any doubts on that score !!).

[Papokarlo]

You think it's fake news ?

Well, from the link you yourself provided:




I'll let you decide that one.

Perhaps Putin's 76% share of the vote came about, in part, anyway, because his opposition couldn't even get a fair hearing ?

And no doubt the Kremlin won't allow news to be broadcast they don't initially approve of (.. as if I had any doubts on that score !!).

opposition 2%
you are not interested in the opinion of the majority of 76%, you are important opposition which received its 2%. the opposition says that the Crimea should be returned to Russia and the people of Russia says that it is not necessary to return the Crimea, on it votes for Putin

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Hell no. I'm a bit older than you. Girls and I don't get along. It's not that I don't like them. They just get mad at me all the time :laugh2:

I don't even know what the American ones are pissed off at half the time and I CAN understand what they are saying. All I need is one I can't even understand WTF I'm getting bitched out about :laugh:
https://image.ibb.co/cLk4KG/women.jpg

[Gunny]

https://image.ibb.co/cLk4KG/women.jpg

:laugh2:

[Drummond]

opposition 2%
you are not interested in the opinion of the majority of 76%, you are important opposition which received its 2%. the opposition says that the Crimea should be returned to Russia and the people of Russia says that it is not necessary to return the Crimea, on it votes for Putin

Ah. BUT, do that majority form 'their' views from what their highly controlled media tell them ?

I'm impressed by that 2% ! One in fifty, still manage to sift through the propaganda onslaught they're subjected to every day of their lives.

How many Russians understand that the wealth of their country - such as it is !! - is being used to create the best weapons and military hardware you can, at the expense of their own standard of living .. taken to the point of needless, gratuitous, deliberate, impoverishment ??

Not many, I'll bet .......

[Papokarlo]

Ah. BUT, do that majority form 'their' views from what their highly controlled media tell them ?

I'm impressed by that 2% ! One in fifty, still manage to sift through the propaganda onslaught they're subjected to every day of their lives.

How many Russians understand that the wealth of their country - such as it is !! - is being used to create the best weapons and military hardware you can, at the expense of their own standard of living .. taken to the point of needless, gratuitous, deliberate, impoverishment ??

Not many, I'll bet .......

Russia does not need opposition, you do not know the psychology of Russians, we need Putin

[Gunny]

Russia does not need opposition, you do not know the psychology of Russians, we need PutinWhat does your comment have to do with the post you responded to? Try and make sense, huh?

The psychology of Russians like you isn't hard to figure out at all. Sheep.

[aboutime]

What does your comment have to do with the post you responded to? Try and make sense, huh?

The psychology of Russians like you isn't hard to figure out at all. Sheep.

They are HURTING for Psychiatrists over there in Russia.

Like my father always said...."They need their Heads examined!"

https://media.giphy.com/media/5S8BFukwfPFsY/giphy-downsized-large.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/NNAPkGH.gifhttps://dd2d9j2i66w9u.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/16075541/russia.gif

[Drummond]

Russia does not need opposition, you do not know the psychology of Russians, we need Putin

You are completely delusional.

Russia needs Putin, like Germany needed Hitler.

Hitler made promises to his people similar to those emanating from Putin. The need for Mother Russia to 'be strong', and the promise that he, as leader, will see to it that this happens. The promise to improve the standard of living under his leadership ... when in fact, our latest reports say that it's begun to decline (and wages in Russia are pitifully low in any case !!).

Putin's doing much as Hitler did -- pouring resources into his military. Add to that Putin's police State, and his obvious contempt for human life .. and I believe Putin is shaping up to be an ever bigger danger to world security, as time goes by.

If we in the West have a failing, in fact, I think you've identified it. We definitely do NOT know the psychology of Russians. I think, realistically, we can't conceive of it. We can't conceive of the lust for power that Putin has. We can't conceive of how Putin's police State is so completely not only accepted and fully tolerated, but how it is that anyone can genuinely approve of it !

I think this is true: the 'Might is Right' imperative is one that's become a national characteristic of Russian thinking. You genuinely subordinate other considerations to that single 'value'. We in the West will always struggle to see how better standards of decency and sheer humanity, to say nothing of a reverence for FREEDOM, don't predominate instead.

You people are downright scary.

[aboutime]

With regard to the Russian Propagandists here. This is what I am reminded of whenever you come here to rant uncontrollably about how wonderful Putin is for you.

Here is what you need to consider...I am convinced of, about YOU.

"You have been proving how it is Impossible to hold an Intelligent conversation with you, or anyone who has Little, If Any Intelligence!" https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/a6/97/ac/a697ac17c7a80569c7b2d29ca94a20b8.jpg

[Gunny]

You are completely delusional.

Russia needs Putin, like Germany needed Hitler.

Hitler made promises to his people similar to those emanating from Putin. The need for Mother Russia to 'be strong', and the promise that he, as leader, will see to it that this happens. The promise to improve the standard of living under his leadership ... when in fact, our latest reports say that it's begun to decline (and wages in Russia are pitifully low in any case !!).

Putin's doing much as Hitler did -- pouring resources into his military. Add to that Putin's police State, and his obvious contempt for human life .. and I believe Putin is shaping up to be an ever bigger danger to world security, as time goes by.

If we in the West have a failing, in fact, I think you've identified it. We definitely do NOT know the psychology of Russians. I think, realistically, we can't conceive of it. We can't conceive of the lust for power that Putin has. We can't conceive of how Putin's police State is so completely not only accepted and fully tolerated, but how it is that anyone can genuinely approve of it !

I think this is true: the 'Might is Right' imperative is one that's become a national characteristic of Russian thinking. You genuinely subordinate other considerations to that single 'value'. We in the West will always struggle to see how better standards of decency and sheer humanity, to say nothing of a reverence for FREEDOM, don't predominate instead.

You people are downright scary.I was thinking about this earlier. Lots of time for that when running. :) Probably make Hitler roll over in his grave to know that HE "made" Stalin and the USSR. Stalin was just another low-rent, 3d world dictator until Hitler made him famous and more importantly, a so-called "ally" of the US and Western Europe.

Hitler came out of WWII with the 3rd Reich and Germany in ruins and himself dead. Stalin came out with Eastern Europe to include half of Germany, a "hero" and "ally" and the second most powerful military in the world. Stalin was everything Hitler had hoped to be. Stalin even murdered as many of his own people as Hitler had wished he could have. Stalin killed more Russians than Germany did.

Just a thought. Hitler's ghost must be pissed :)

[Drummond]

40% of the world's population doesn't think so, it's BRICs and SOO countries, we will soon stop paying attention to your screeching

Bottom line: you'll only listen to what you choose to. You'll only learn when you choose to. Your beliefs are what you choose, rather than having any basis in reality.

We all know this.

You're wedded to your country's propaganda. You're loyal to whatever fascistic crap your leaders tell you it's 'right' to follow. Reality ? To you, it's in the eye of the beholder, and only as absolute as you'd prefer it to be.

We have a word for such perceptual selectivity, with an entire psychology only seeing what it chooses, being blind and deaf to everything else.

The word is ..... INSANITY.

However, we understand that this (like so much else) is something you'd never choose to see. So, what would your word be, instead ?

I know.

RUSSIA.

[aboutime]

After the Terrorist, Dictator won his election...AGAIN. Our Russian members must be hiding somewhere after we proved PUTIN had won...BEFORE THE ELECTION.
http://new.euro-med.dk/wp-content/uploads/putin-dictator-of-our-hearts2-300x206.jpg

http://icansayit.com/1apages/dicktater.jpg