Sick & Tired of the party lines crap

[DragonStryk72]

Alright, I have to get this off my chest, cause it just seems nowadays that everyone seems to be missing some things that should be readily apparent:

1. "Party lines" and "Bi-Partisan Debate" are terms that basically boil down to this statement, "I am a member of this political party first, and your representative second". This is as true for Dems as it is for Reps, because what it means is that they are intentionally voting along the lines that their party has laid. These do not take into account what your area is looking for in their leadership.

2. Neither Bush nor Hilary are "hitler" or even like him. Neither one of them has killed 6 million plus Jewish people, or tried to hatch a master plan to create a single "master race". Nor have they managed to take over half of Europe using only verbal diplomacy. Throwing up the hitler flag is nothing more or less than a cheap way to cancel out an argument. It is thrown about now in a disgraceful way, cheapening all debates that it comes into.

3. Red State and Blue State are the single greatest threat to our country currently, not terrorism, or who the next president ends up being, but RvB. In the end, we all want the same basics things: Enough money to raise a family with, and still have fun money, lower taxes, good schools, and our liberties. That's alls it comes down to in the end, is that. We have common ground, but we are being divided by our own government and media, liveral media and conservative equally.

4. I am born and raised Catholic, went to Catholic School, and that said, I also understand that the separation of church and state is a major foundation of our government. When we were founded, our forefathers (libertarian deists= they believed that God set down all the rules for the universe back at creation, then stepped back to let us have free will, and believed that government should be done the same way) wanted to be rid of the church laws that were very prevalent in England at the time (You could actually be fined for not attending mass), and so they created that barrier, not due to a lack of faith, but by an abundance of the same, to believe enough in the hearts to be able to set aside their religion to do what was right for the country at large.

5. If I hear "support the troops" one more frigging time...... This crap is tired. I was a MM3 (Machinist's Mate 3rd Class) on LHD-5 (USS Bataan, and amphib carrier), based out of Naval Station Norfolk. You want to support the troops? Talk to some of the retiring generals, and get them to run for office, cause I will laugh myself silly the first time that some dipstick gets up there and accuses them of not supporting the troops. Our politicians are using this cheap ass tactic over and over again, to de-legitimize arguments, and swing voters with soundbites. The problem is, the vast majority of people seem to be buying into it.

6. Gay marriage doesn't matter, ever. Nothing will actually manage to get passed one way or the other, there's are too many for it, and too many against it. It's just another in a long, sad line of cop out maneuevers by politicians to swing votes their way from the liberally and conservative minded. A law that isn't enforceable, and won't be followed isn't a law, ever.

7. Dems are just as much at fault as republicans, and have lost all excuse for it since taking over the congress. They have not accomplished a single thing they campaigned for at election time, and have once again gone spineless. We should have had a supreme court run being made over the various scandals, but no, instead, they swept the biggest ones right under the rug. Republicans meanwhile seem to have stopped being for a republic of any kind, putting more power into the presidency than any previous administration, and also increasing the size of it. You can't argue being a conservative if you aren't conserving anything.

8. We're in Iraq, period. Okay, I was against the war, and the flat fact is had Bush gotten up there and been like, "He's a sadistic murdering bastard, whose crimes include government sanctioned rape, mass murder, and torture. We put him in power, and he has abused that power in every way possible, so now it is our respobsibility to take away that power" I'd have been more in favor of it. That is now immaterial though, we're there, and we need to get it right, cause if we don't, or we just yank out, then we could end up imploding the whole region. Now, that said, of the plans I've heard, I like Biden's the best (basically, he is looking to make three separate states within Iraq, along the lines of the three sects currently fighting assimilation. I know, a country made up of varying states, it could never work ), and that's going to lean me his way come election time.

I do apologize that there was a rant like this, but seriously, I've had more than enough of the far too comfy bs we entrap ourselves with. I mean, with everything that has gone to hell these past few years, we should be lighting torches, and going over proper handling instructions for pitchforks, and instead, everyone just seems to be sitting by and letting everything happen. It is time that we got back to being able to get solid grass roots campaigns off the ground, and make something of them.

[Pale Rider]

Well whether you're tired of it or not, issues such as homo marriage, the illegal alien invasion from the south, abortion, the war in Iraq, socialized health care, and new taxes ARE divided down party lines, and that divide probably hasn't been as deep as it is now since the Civil War.

This once great nation has lost it's capability to pull together. This open border, melting pot, assimilate to the foreigners instead of foreigners assimilating to America is ripping us apart. It's destroying our identity. True American patriots are dying off, and being replaced with something else that hardly resembles an American.

[nevadamedic]

Alright, I have to get this off my chest, cause it just seems nowadays that everyone seems to be missing some things that should be readily apparent:

1. "Party lines" and "Bi-Partisan Debate" are terms that basically boil down to this statement, "I am a member of this political party first, and your representative second". This is as true for Dems as it is for Reps, because what it means is that they are intentionally voting along the lines that their party has laid. These do not take into account what your area is looking for in their leadership.

2. Neither Bush nor Hilary are "hitler" or even like him. Neither one of them has killed 6 million plus Jewish people, or tried to hatch a master plan to create a single "master race". Nor have they managed to take over half of Europe using only verbal diplomacy. Throwing up the hitler flag is nothing more or less than a cheap way to cancel out an argument. It is thrown about now in a disgraceful way, cheapening all debates that it comes into.

3. Red State and Blue State are the single greatest threat to our country currently, not terrorism, or who the next president ends up being, but RvB. In the end, we all want the same basics things: Enough money to raise a family with, and still have fun money, lower taxes, good schools, and our liberties. That's alls it comes down to in the end, is that. We have common ground, but we are being divided by our own government and media, liveral media and conservative equally.

4. I am born and raised Catholic, went to Catholic School, and that said, I also understand that the separation of church and state is a major foundation of our government. When we were founded, our forefathers (libertarian deists= they believed that God set down all the rules for the universe back at creation, then stepped back to let us have free will, and believed that government should be done the same way) wanted to be rid of the church laws that were very prevalent in England at the time (You could actually be fined for not attending mass), and so they created that barrier, not due to a lack of faith, but by an abundance of the same, to believe enough in the hearts to be able to set aside their religion to do what was right for the country at large.

5. If I hear "support the troops" one more frigging time...... This crap is tired. I was a MM3 (Machinist's Mate 3rd Class) on LHD-5 (USS Bataan, and amphib carrier), based out of Naval Station Norfolk. You want to support the troops? Talk to some of the retiring generals, and get them to run for office, cause I will laugh myself silly the first time that some dipstick gets up there and accuses them of not supporting the troops. Our politicians are using this cheap ass tactic over and over again, to de-legitimize arguments, and swing voters with soundbites. The problem is, the vast majority of people seem to be buying into it.

6. Gay marriage doesn't matter, ever. Nothing will actually manage to get passed one way or the other, there's are too many for it, and too many against it. It's just another in a long, sad line of cop out maneuevers by politicians to swing votes their way from the liberally and conservative minded. A law that isn't enforceable, and won't be followed isn't a law, ever.

7. Dems are just as much at fault as republicans, and have lost all excuse for it since taking over the congress. They have not accomplished a single thing they campaigned for at election time, and have once again gone spineless. We should have had a supreme court run being made over the various scandals, but no, instead, they swept the biggest ones right under the rug. Republicans meanwhile seem to have stopped being for a republic of any kind, putting more power into the presidency than any previous administration, and also increasing the size of it. You can't argue being a conservative if you aren't conserving anything.

8. We're in Iraq, period. Okay, I was against the war, and the flat fact is had Bush gotten up there and been like, "He's a sadistic murdering bastard, whose crimes include government sanctioned rape, mass murder, and torture. We put him in power, and he has abused that power in every way possible, so now it is our respobsibility to take away that power" I'd have been more in favor of it. That is now immaterial though, we're there, and we need to get it right, cause if we don't, or we just yank out, then we could end up imploding the whole region. Now, that said, of the plans I've heard, I like Biden's the best (basically, he is looking to make three separate states within Iraq, along the lines of the three sects currently fighting assimilation. I know, a country made up of varying states, it could never work ), and that's going to lean me his way come election time.

I do apologize that there was a rant like this, but seriously, I've had more than enough of the far too comfy bs we entrap ourselves with. I mean, with everything that has gone to hell these past few years, we should be lighting torches, and going over proper handling instructions for pitchforks, and instead, everyone just seems to be sitting by and letting everything happen. It is time that we got back to being able to get solid grass roots campaigns off the ground, and make something of them.

That's why I am organizing a major protest of Senator Harry Reid, Speaker Pelosi and also support the troops rally where we are asking everyone to bring cards, letters and care packages that we can send to the trppos overseas.

[nevadamedic]

Well whether you're tired of it or not, issues such as homo marriage, the illegal alien invasion from the south, abortion, the war in Iraq, socialized health care, and new taxes ARE divided down party lines, and that divide probably hasn't been as deep as it is now since the Civil War.

This once great nation has lost it's capability to pull together. This open border, melting pot, assimilate to the foreigners instead of foreigners assimilating to America is ripping us apart. It's destroying our identity. True American patriots are dying off, and being replaced with something else that hardly resembles an American.

We still have True American Patriot's, they are called Republican's.

[GW in Ohio]

That's why I am organizing a major protest of Senator Harry Reid, Speaker Pelosi and also support the troops rally where we are asking everyone to bring cards, letters and care packages that we can send to the trppos overseas.

Did you kind of miss the point of this thread, about partisanship being the biggest problem we currently have?

[GW in Ohio]

We still have True American Patriot's, they are called Republican's.

nevada:


See my previous comment about partisanship.
Apostrophes are used to indicate possession, not plurals.

[nevadamedic]

nevada:


See my previous comment about partisanship.
Apostrophes are used to indicate possession, not plurals.


:fu:

[5stringJeff]

We still have True American Patriot's, they are called Republican's.

Way to be nonpartisan. :rolleyes:

[5stringJeff]

Did you kind of miss the point of this thread, about partisanship being the biggest problem we currently have?

Word.

[DragonStryk72]

Alright, Neva, you and seem to have kind of an on again, off again relationship with agreeing with each other, which is fine, but you really did miss the point. You opinion that being republican automatically makes someone right, or patriotic, while being a dem makes someone wrong, or unpatriotic, is the actual root of the problem.

Now, as far as the whole issues currently swamping us, here go my points.

1. Illegal Immigration: We need to punish the BUSINESSES that hire the illegals, as opposed to going after the individual illegals, it is more efficient, and more likely to change the field. At the same time, we need to offer new ways to become a Legal citizen of the United States:
a. We have an undermanned military that could use some more people. If they are willing to fight and die for this country then I would be more than happy to admit them as citizens.
b. We have a city that near got swallowed by the Gulf of Mexico, and could use some extra workers (I know, I'm playing to a stereotype here, but still). If they're willing to help us rebuild a devestated city of ours, I see no issue with that, it would be an alteration of the Homesteaders Act.
c. Annex Mexico (It would need to be broken up into smaller states, though), but that's a bit on the pricey side, even if it is annexed in a peaceful manner.

Personally I go for both a & b on that one, since they can be worked at the same time. Now as to Health Care:

Half the problem there is the pharm companies are making a frickin killing, and tht needs to be brought within bounds.

The FDA needs to be rebuilt so that it is functional (It was cut down in the 80s to a third of its size, but was given extra responsiblities at the same time).

Socialized health won't work in a free market economy, I realize that, so I'm not going to argue it, but our health care used to be much, much better than it is now. We need to go back to full insurance, as opposed to this HMO garbage, wherein the HMOs cut every corner imagineable to not have to pay out.

We are also overmedicated as a society, which is killing our wallets (and improving pharm stock by the day). More and more, we are finding that natural cures are so much better than the medications that we ingest so regularly, and can be vastly cheaper. It's the same thing as how AC destroys you ability to cope with heat.

Another problem is that every country has different standards for doctors, which hurts us by not allowing good doctors from other countries to come over here. the same can be said of drugs made in other countries, like Canada. I'm not saying we should just take whatever drugs come down the pike, far from it, but Canada isn't exactly a 3rd world country, eh?

Pork spending: this is a huge huge catastrophe, but nothing is being done to stop it. why? Because it is so very helpful to politicians' campaigns, wherein they can claim a candidate is for this, or against that, in order to gain points, because there were these tiny little "add-ons" on the fifth time the bill was sent to the floor, and no one wanted to go through and read it again. There are actual studies showing that more of our spending is from this than everything else in the budget. Our government is robbing us blind, since we are in fact paying for the extra fat.

Gay Marriage: if you're against it, then don't marry them. Seems simple enough, but again, the point is completely useless, a horrendous time-waster that our politicians on both sides are exploiting again or again.

Pale, can you honestly say that Gay Marriage affects your life more than credit card debt, shitty health insurance, higher taxes, and the War in Iraq? I could be wrong, there is that chance, but I'm going to say no, it doesn't. Like 99.99% percent of us who are not gay, this is really not a concern unless you make it one. however, it's a button pusher item, because it so easily raises the religious hackles of so many, so in effect, they are using your faith, your belief, in order to manipulate, and get you not to ask the tougher questions about these people running for office.

Abortion will decrease naturally as soon as parents start reclaiming authority and personal responsibility over their children. Parents who buy Grand Theft Auto for their 8 year old, complaining about a hack that is difficult to do to the game in the first place, but only because it is related to sex. Now, this game is named after a major felony offense, it has hookers, drug dealers, and gangsters in it, there is theft, assault, mass murder, cop killing, and prostitution built into the game. Not one word about any of that, just the "hot coffee" incident. Any decently responsible parent would have taken one look at the game's box, and been like, "no, I don't think this is something my son is ready for". Instead, you have politicians telling you that video games are responsible for the downward spiral of america's youth. No, the lack of responsible parenting is responsible for the spiral, and needs to be addressed now.

The strictures for adoption, though, do need to be made a little less intensive though. I mean, my cousin Mikey is adopted, to my Aunt Joanie and Uncle Louie, and I can tell you, there is a line that would stretch across this country of families willing to take in a child. I do believe that in the cases of rape, an abortion should be allowed, as well as in cases whether the mother could die from the pregnancy or labor. But it is becoming the quick fix solution of our society, and that needs to stop. We need to teach our kids, here and now, to be responsible for themselves.

All in all, though, you are right, we are losing that capacity, you have only to look about at the debates on this forum to see that. The question, how do we change to improve upon that?

[Hagbard Celine]

Alright, Neva, you and seem to have kind of an on again, off again relationship with agreeing with each other, which is fine, but you really did miss the point. You opinion that being republican automatically makes someone right, or patriotic, while being a dem makes someone wrong, or unpatriotic, is the actual root of the problem.

Now, as far as the whole issues currently swamping us, here go my points.

1. Illegal Immigration: We need to punish the BUSINESSES that hire the illegals, as opposed to going after the individual illegals, it is more efficient, and more likely to change the field. At the same time, we need to offer new ways to become a Legal citizen of the United States:
a. We have an undermanned military that could use some more people. If they are willing to fight and die for this country then I would be more than happy to admit them as citizens.
b. We have a city that near got swallowed by the Gulf of Mexico, and could use some extra workers (I know, I'm playing to a stereotype here, but still). If they're willing to help us rebuild a devestated city of ours, I see no issue with that, it would be an alteration of the Homesteaders Act.
c. Annex Mexico (It would need to be broken up into smaller states, though), but that's a bit on the pricey side, even if it is annexed in a peaceful manner.

Personally I go for both a & b on that one, since they can be worked at the same time. Now as to Health Care:

Half the problem there is the pharm companies are making a frickin killing, and tht needs to be brought within bounds.

The FDA needs to be rebuilt so that it is functional (It was cut down in the 80s to a third of its size, but was given extra responsiblities at the same time).

Socialized health won't work in a free market economy, I realize that, so I'm not going to argue it, but our health care used to be much, much better than it is now. We need to go back to full insurance, as opposed to this HMO garbage, wherein the HMOs cut every corner imagineable to not have to pay out.

We are also overmedicated as a society, which is killing our wallets (and improving pharm stock by the day). More and more, we are finding that natural cures are so much better than the medications that we ingest so regularly, and can be vastly cheaper. It's the same thing as how AC destroys you ability to cope with heat.

Another problem is that every country has different standards for doctors, which hurts us by not allowing good doctors from other countries to come over here. the same can be said of drugs made in other countries, like Canada. I'm not saying we should just take whatever drugs come down the pike, far from it, but Canada isn't exactly a 3rd world country, eh?

Pork spending: this is a huge huge catastrophe, but nothing is being done to stop it. why? Because it is so very helpful to politicians' campaigns, wherein they can claim a candidate is for this, or against that, in order to gain points, because there were these tiny little "add-ons" on the fifth time the bill was sent to the floor, and no one wanted to go through and read it again. There are actual studies showing that more of our spending is from this than everything else in the budget. Our government is robbing us blind, since we are in fact paying for the extra fat.

Gay Marriage: if you're against it, then don't marry them. Seems simple enough, but again, the point is completely useless, a horrendous time-waster that our politicians on both sides are exploiting again or again.

Pale, can you honestly say that Gay Marriage affects your life more than credit card debt, shitty health insurance, higher taxes, and the War in Iraq? I could be wrong, there is that chance, but I'm going to say no, it doesn't. Like 99.99% percent of us who are not gay, this is really not a concern unless you make it one. however, it's a button pusher item, because it so easily raises the religious hackles of so many, so in effect, they are using your faith, your belief, in order to manipulate, and get you not to ask the tougher questions about these people running for office.

Abortion will decrease naturally as soon as parents start reclaiming authority and personal responsibility over their children. Parents who buy Grand Theft Auto for their 8 year old, complaining about a hack that is difficult to do to the game in the first place, but only because it is related to sex. Now, this game is named after a major felony offense, it has hookers, drug dealers, and gangsters in it, there is theft, assault, mass murder, cop killing, and prostitution built into the game. Not one word about any of that, just the "hot coffee" incident. Any decently responsible parent would have taken one look at the game's box, and been like, "no, I don't think this is something my son is ready for". Instead, you have politicians telling you that video games are responsible for the downward spiral of america's youth. No, the lack of responsible parenting is responsible for the spiral, and needs to be addressed now.

The strictures for adoption, though, do need to be made a little less intensive though. I mean, my cousin Mikey is adopted, to my Aunt Joanie and Uncle Louie, and I can tell you, there is a line that would stretch across this country of families willing to take in a child. I do believe that in the cases of rape, an abortion should be allowed. But it is becoming the quick fix solution of our society, and that needs to stop. We need to teach our kids, here and now, to be responsible for themselves.

All in all, though, you are right, we are losing that capacity, you have only to look about at the debates on this forum to see that. The question, how do we change to improve upon that?

I can't read

[avatar4321]

Did you kind of miss the point of this thread, about partisanship being the biggest problem we currently have?

I dont think partisanship is bad. I think taking positions and standing up for them is a good thing.

its this lack of civility. "Bush is Hitler" "Let's kill the other guys" that has me worried.

[truthmatters]

I just wish people whoud quit believing lies.

[avatar4321]

I just wish people whoud quit believing lies.

I wish people would stop spreading lies. Especially the ones who claim to not want people to believe them.

[diuretic]

That wasn't a rant, it was a well-considered post that contained much sense.

The partisan responses were sadly predictable but that's part of the fun with the forum here. I don't them seriously but when serious ideas come up they're good to read and think about.

[truthmatters]

I wish people would stop spreading lies. Especially the ones who claim to not want people to believe them.

Please name a lie I have spread?

You see this is what Im talking about.

[Gaffer]

That wasn't a rant, it was a well-considered post that contained much sense.

The partisan responses were sadly predictable but that's part of the fun with the forum here. I don't them seriously but when serious ideas come up they're good to read and think about.

Agreed. A well thought out post. I have to spread the rep around.