Today marks 17 years since the events of 9/11

[jimnyc]

I really can't believe it's been that long.

How many here stated then, or not long after, "I'll never forget" and went along exactly with the rest of the nation on that aspect?

Now, how many here have lost sight, and perhaps HAVE forgotten those events, and those thousands of lives?

There are far too many around the nation that have long forgotten already. Even our government put aside differences and got together as one. But that only lasted a day or so before back to the same 'ol same 'ol.

Back then, flags were popping up all over again and being proudly displayed. Now? Not only less flags memorializing 9/11, but in many aspects wearing or having or doing something with the American flag can get you in hot water these days. Don't wan't to offend the innocent muslims, ya know? :rolleyes:

Now, and far from only here, there are still endless arguments about that day. Things have changed, many have in fact forgotten, and that's sad. But worse when and if it may be used as a tool, or the blame game crap.

But dang, my kid just went off to college, and he wasn't even a year old yet when 9/11 took place. :(


There is no way to describe or explain or somehow list the amount of heroes that appeared out of the woodwork on that day. Regular everyday people, police officers, firemen, clergy & even rescue dogs. And that's just the beginning, no way to truly honor everyone from all sides. But those who worked to save lives or did save lives, now THOSE are heroes. REAL heroes who saved lives, put their own lives in grave danger & many actually died while helping others. Now THAT is true sacrificing.

Here are a few of those folks...

https://i.imgur.com/IQrhHIH.png

https://i.imgur.com/PuyGUJx.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/haUjnG0.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/qGixG3e.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/E076vJg.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/CtcodAY.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/iQfM5EZ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/49jk3VJ.jpg

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I really can't believe it's been that long.

How many here stated then, or not long after, "I'll never forget" and went along exactly with the rest of the nation on that aspect?

Now, how many here have lost sight, and perhaps HAVE forgotten those events, and those thousands of lives?

There are far too many around the nation that have long forgotten already. Even our government put aside differences and got together as one. But that only lasted a day or so before back to the same 'ol same 'ol.

Back then, flags were popping up all over again and being proudly displayed. Now? Not only less flags memorializing 9/11, but in many aspects wearing or having or doing something with the American flag can get you in hot water these days. Don't wan't to offend the innocent muslims, ya know? :rolleyes:

Now, and far from only here, there are still endless arguments about that day. Things have changed, many have in fact forgotten, and that's sad. But worse when and if it may be used as a tool, or the blame game crap.

But dang, my kid just went off to college, and he wasn't even a year old yet when 9/11 took place. :(


There is no way to describe or explain or somehow list the amount of heroes that appeared out of the woodwork on that day. Regular everyday people, police officers, firemen, clergy & even rescue dogs. And that's just the beginning, no way to truly honor everyone from all sides. But those who worked to save lives or did save lives, now THOSE are heroes. REAL heroes who saved lives, put their own lives in grave danger & many actually died while helping others. Now THAT is true sacrificing.



Yes , it has been 17 years and just look at the state that Islam is in worldwide..
Has it been diminished any at all?? NO
And it was Islam that did that!!! It was not crazy aliens from another planet.
The government and media have done a great job at convincing most people Islam is not to blame?
FFING bullshit!!
Islam and their cult book, the damn Koran, are solely to blame.
We should have declared war on Islam instead of deciding to cover for them. Now Islam is stronger than ever and protected by their dark Lord(Satan).--I am sick of the lie -that Islam is a religion of peace! It is so damn easy to research and find that the exact opposite is true..
To hell with the damn muzzy's.. Islam is a cancer.....functions exactly like a cancer.. stands against everything our Constitution promotes.. yet festers here in our nation biding its time to destroy, a fact......(wake up)
Some of us do not forget, do not forgive and carry the deepest hatred ever known to man..
They had best pray, some patriots never decide to act upon that and deliver some justice back to those filthyyyyyyyyyyyy animals.
FFKKKK THEM.....---TYR

[Noir]

How many here stated then, or not long after, "I'll never forget" and went along exactly with the rest of the nation on that aspect?

Now, how many here have lost sight, and perhaps HAVE forgotten those events, and those thousands of lives?


Forgetting events? No.
But forgetting emotions? Yes, and in the most part that is a healthy and inevitable outcome.

There’s also a wave of about-to-be college students who weren’t alive before 9/11, who’s emotions are about as detached as it is possible to be, that changes conversations.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Forgetting events? No.
But forgetting emotions? Yes, and in the most part that is a healthy and inevitable outcome.

There’s also a wave of about-to-be college students who weren’t alive before 9/11, who’s emotions are about as detached as it is possible to be, that changes conversations.

So states a person that is not an American... One that is a liberal, always keen to defend those that do evil...
Those college kids that do not know..hmmmm.
Tell me how that blindness occurred-will ya?
Was it by a non-stop government/media campaign to insure forgetfulness, to make damn sure that 9/11, a major historic event, was not taught in our schools?
You that live in a liberal lala land haven't a damn clue.--Tyr

[jimnyc]

Forgetting events? No.
But forgetting emotions? Yes, and in the most part that is a healthy and inevitable outcome.

There’s also a wave of about-to-be college students who weren’t alive before 9/11, who’s emotions are about as detached as it is possible to be, that changes conversations.

I can agree with you to an extent on all of this. For those of us that were alive when it took place, and some of us closer to the area than others, it was an extremely emotional day, which turned into an emotional remembrance 17 years running thus far.

The scared I felt, the complete unknown, running out of NYC while still not fully knowing, but hearing all the horrid details coming out as I had the obvious extended drive home. Some folks lost loved ones and some lost friends. My wife lost 2 colleagues in the towers that day. A few others I know apparently knew folks there. I had a connection myself, but very distant.

I can understand letting go some of the emotion of "anger", as Bin Laden is dead as are others involved. No point carrying rage about the incident, and I do agree that it would be unhealthy. But I will never forget the 'type' that committed these acts, and apparently why. And it does bring me with a closer attention to Islam, the radical side I speak of, and I won't forget that those terrorist types committed these acts. That many still exist, more to come & one main goal they all share is "death to America" in some fashion.

So yeah, I let go of the anger towards those that are dead and/or in the slammer. But I sleep with one eye open when it comes to radical Islam, which is a huge portion of Islam. I won't forget the entirety of the act and every last person remotely to be involved. We need to be ever vigilant in protecting our country & preparing for scum like this to exist and/or want to bring harm to us.

But yes, I do understand your point, and I agree with it. It's just that, IMO, certain things should never be forgotten. And I HOPE and PRAY that when kids that are born today, and whether in HS or college - learn the 100% truth about everything that transpired that day. None of that "Bush did it" crap in text books nor how "we may be responsible" in some manner for their actions. EFF THAT - it was a HUGE crime, and there is no excuse whatsoever for them to have done so, no matter what one thinks we may have done or didn't do for another country.

[Drummond]

Forgetting events? No.
But forgetting emotions? Yes, and in the most part that is a healthy and inevitable outcome.

There’s also a wave of about-to-be college students who weren’t alive before 9/11, who’s emotions are about as detached as it is possible to be, that changes conversations.

So what you're saying, is:

1. Don't forget what happened. However ...

2. Make sure you cease to view it, and feel about it, as people did at that time.

WHY ???

Tell me. In your Leftie world, are people entitled to learn (for example) about the horrors of Auschwitz, but NOT entitled to feel anything for Nazism's victims there ?

It's surely essentially the same point as the one you're trying to make now. An atrocity was committed on this day, in New York, all those years ago. Americans have the RIGHT to feel as they do, and I would argue (to the extent I could even have the smallest justification in adding my own judgment on this !) that if they want to revisit their memories of that day, and feel what they feel about it all, IT IS THEIR RIGHT, AND IT IS 'HEALTHY' THAT THEY DO !!!

I don't feel at all comfortable about judging any of this. How is it, Noir, that you do ??

In your world, would you rather that Americans become emotionally disengaged, so that all impetus and motivation in fighting the evil that spawned this terrorism, is lost ??

Do you believe that grieving families have now lost the right to grieve ??

Do you now appreciate, Noir, how WRONG you are ??

[Noir]

@Jim Then maybe I can be more specific- what is your sentiment regarding “I’ll never forget”
Forget what?

[Noir]

So what you're saying, is:

1. Don't forget what happened. However ...

2. Make sure you cease to view it, and feel about it, as people did at that time.


No, but as with all trauma - the emotion of the immediate will fade, which will inevitably change the conversation about it.

I think that is a healthy and non-controversial outlook

[Elessar]

I was at a CG Search and Rescue station in Bayside, Queens (Ft Totten) in the early 80's.
3/4ers of our Reservists were cops or firefighters in NYC.

That particular day I was on leave while living in Long Beach CA. My brother and I had
been to a Redskins vs Chargers game in San Diego the day before.

While watching The news over morning coffee, I saw what was unfolding. Without hesitation,
I shaved, showered and went into the Command Center at CG Group Los Angeles - Long Beach
to augment the watch. (I was the Senior Controller). It was pandemonium in both
harbors. No vessels allowed in unless escorted.

Forget? NO! Forgive? NO!

[Drummond]

No, but as with all trauma - the emotion of the immediate will fade, which will inevitably change the conversation about it.

I think that is a healthy and non-controversial outlook

You're changing this.

Review your post. You weren't talking about motions FADING, you were talking about them being FORGOTTEN.

Let me remind you of your wording ...


Forgetting events? No. But forgetting emotions? Yes, and in the most part that is a healthy and inevitable outcome.

I think you realise you've made a mistake, that you've gone a little too far in pushing a preferred pro-'PC' outlook, and you're shifting goalposts a little to try and remain credible.

But let's move on a little, shall we ? You're now saying that the fading of emotions will 'change the conversation about it'. Tell me, what would you prefer it be changed TO ?

[Elessar]

@Jim Then maybe I can be more specific- what is your sentiment regarding “I’ll never forget”
Forget what?

You try living with such an event and see how your philosophy works for you.

First responders - Police, Firefighters, Ambulance Crews, City Workers - all perished
when those towers collapsed. They put their lives on the line each time they
deploy from their station.

Forgive? NO! Forget? NO!

[Noir]

You're changing this.

Review your post. You weren't talking about motions FADING, you were talking about them being FORGOTTEN.

Let me remind you of your wording ...



I think you realise you've made a mistake, that you've gone a little too far in pushing a preferred pro-'PC' outlook, and you're shifting goalposts a little to try and remain credible.

But tell me. You're now saying that the fading of emotions will 'change the conversation about it'. Tell me, what would you prefer it be changed TO ?

An emotion can fade into being forgotten, I think that is consistent.

I would prefer a conversation not driven by emotion. To some extent that is impossible at the 1st generation level (and maybe beyond idk) - but it is easier the greater time from the event.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Watched the news for awhile this morning and noticed a definite LACK of any mention of WHO did this. There's lots of stories about WHAT happened, but I haven't heard any WHY, or any WHO did it.

Just so that we DON'T forget WHO did it and WHY, it was MUSLIMS who did it, and they're mission is to KILL THE INFIDEL.

[Drummond]

An emotion can fade into being forgotten, I think that is consistent.

I would prefer a conversation not driven by emotion. To some extent that is impossible at the 1st generation level (and maybe beyond idk) - but it is easier the greater time from the event.

So we're agreed, then, that the emotions being FORGOTTEN is something you regard as preferable.

To which I'd say - as an example of how unjust such a viewpoint is -- should grieving families now have no further right to grieve ? In your opinion, are they wrong to ?

Getting back, for a moment, to my Auschwitz example of earlier. Would you 'prefer to have a conversation not driven by emotion' on that subject ? If it were a conversation with a Holocaust survivor, would you much rather that said survivor not 'hold any emotion' about what he or she had gone through ? If 'yes' ...

... BY WHAT RIGHT WOULD YOU REQUIRE SUCH A THING ?

Equally with 9/11, a far more recent atrocity. Would you 'ban' a loved one of a victim of that attack from conversing with you about it, because it might be an 'emotional' exchange ??

Americans have a right to feel what they do. Who are you to stand in judgment over them about it ?

Is it because you'd rather they obeyed a certain 'PC imperative', which requires the neutralisation of any and all impetus in further taking on the evil that spawned that attack ? H'mm .. ??

[Noir]

Someone grieving is expected and in the most part uncontrollable - Someone still in grief many years after an event should be seeking help because that is not healthy for them, or those around them.

Re: Examples like the holocaust, empathy is a separate and useful tool, that I do not think contradicts with what I am saying.

[Drummond]

You try living with such an event and see how your philosophy works for you.

First responders - Police, Firefighters, Ambulance Crews, City Workers - all perished
when those towers collapsed. They put their lives on the line each time they
deploy from their station.

Forgive? NO! Forget? NO!

What makes Noir's attitude all the more appalling is that he should be no stranger to understanding the effect terrorist attacks has on the community which suffers them.

Northern Ireland is where Noir is from. It's a country that had sustained terrorism from the IRA.

More recently, we in London had our '7/7' attack. Of course, that cannot be compared to the disgusting scope and nature of 9/11 ... however, 7/7 was nonetheless a terrorist incident, with people killed, maimed, and all the agony and trauma associated with a terrorist attack was there.

My point is that Noir should know better than to hold the perspective that he does. Would Noir respond well to an American telling British people that it was better if emotion involved with 7/7 was 'forgotten', that said American preferred to converse about it so long as it was done minus emotion ??

Disgusting. Be it over 7/7, be it over 9/11 ... disgusting.

Noir, you REALLY need to rethink your attitude ... and for that matter, any element of judgementality you're applying.

[Drummond]

Someone grieving is expected and in the most part uncontrollable - Someone still in grief many years after an event should be seeking help because that is not healthy for them, or those around them.

Re: Examples like the holocaust, empathy is a separate and useful tool, that I do not think contradicts with what I am saying.

What ??

You're being judgmental about someone's extent of grief, or their right to grieve ?? By what conceivable right do YOU judge that a person still grieving 'should be seeking help' ?

You talk of 'empathy'. Where is YOURS, TODAY, OVER WHAT NEW YORKERS AND AMERICANS SUFFERED ON 11TH SEPTEMBER 2001 ??

And why are you REALLY so intent upon thinking that emotion should play so little a part in the anniversary of 9/11 ???

[Noir]

I think it is reasonable to consider that if someone is still grieving years after a death they are likely suffering from a prolonged depression, should seek help. If you consider that judgemental, fair enough.

In any case I don’t have much more to add to the topic.

[jimnyc]

@Jim Then maybe I can be more specific- what is your sentiment regarding “I’ll never forget”
Forget what?

I thought I was clear, but let me try again.

Radical Islam was responsible for 9/11. I am now ever vigilant about radical Islam, which I truly wasn't "fully aware" to the extent prior to these events. I won't forget how the responses were from so many throughout the Islamic world, not all, but many many. And the fact is, with the most in-depth, as in years in the making, was shown that the radicals within Islam is a HUGE number. I won't ever forget that they were able to commit such acts on our soil. I won't forget that terrorism, within our lifetimes, is a major problem and the overwhelming majority of them come from within Islam. I'll never forget the amount of lives lost that day. I'll never forget the amount of people that showed up to lend assistance. I'll never forget the way Rudy stepped in and comforted NYC in a manner that was more than difficult at the time. I won't forget the way 350 million people suddenly all agreed, were all flying flags and all united over what happened & all agreed from the very early days forward that we would never forget. Never forget to trust but verify. Sleep with one eye open when you know your enemy.

As I started alluding to up there, there was also a lot of good that came out of that day, and that should never be forgotten either. The folks that risked their lives to instantly help, and knowingly suck in that air. The police and firemen that jumped instantly prior to the buildings falling, and all of those that worked 24x7 to help retrieve their brothers/sisters in arms. Firemen from all over the entire nation came to lend assistance. Too many regular folks came to help and they started turning people away. The amount that the entire world donated to the various funds was incredible.

There is just SO SO much to "never forget", both from the emotional angry side, as well as teary eyed pride in so many heroes.

[jimnyc]

Someone grieving is expected and in the most part uncontrollable - Someone still in grief many years after an event should be seeking help because that is not healthy for them, or those around them.

Re: Examples like the holocaust, empathy is a separate and useful tool, that I do not think contradicts with what I am saying.

I have been grieving about the loss of my Mom since 2010. Yeah, it's gotten a tad easier, but I will never fully be over the grief. Sometimes memories will even draw the tears. Hell, it's Mom, those are memories and emotions, and I think that it's also healthy at times.

[jimnyc]

I think it is reasonable to consider that if someone is still grieving years after a death they are likely suffering from a prolonged depression, should seek help. If you consider that judgemental, fair enough.

In any case I don’t have much more to add to the topic.

There are thousands that are grieving over the loss of various loved ones on 9/11. It can cause a prolonged depression, but most folks can still function in such a manner. I think if it disables you, that's when you seek assistance. But to grieve, or be depressed or get a tear in the eye - whether a few months or 20 years down the road, I still think that's simply nature showing itself and human emotion. Personally, I would find it odd if someone were able to let go too easily.

I DO understand your point, and that if it's an "issue" after many years, one should seek help or talk to a therapist. But I only think that's if it somehow disables the person still.

[Drummond]

There are thousands that are grieving over the loss of various loved ones on 9/11. It can cause a prolonged depression, but most folks can still function in such a manner. I think if it disables you, that's when you seek assistance. But to grieve, or be depressed or get a tear in the eye - whether a few months or 20 years down the road, I still think that's simply nature showing itself and human emotion. Personally, I would find it odd if someone were able to let go too easily.

I DO understand your point, and that if it's an "issue" after many years, one should seek help or talk to a therapist. But I only think that's if it somehow disables the person still.

For what it's worth, I think Noir is equating 'depression' (or his understanding of it) to American family members of 9/11 victims, as though this was all that was involved. But, it's not. There's the shock of the attack. The outrage felt over it. The immense trauma associated with it, as well as the grieving process itself. I don't feel that Noir is applying any understanding of any of that when he judges, as he does, that grieving family members - if still feeling that grief to any major extent - should 'seek help'.

Functionality isn't necessarily involved. People have a right to feel what they do, without some judgmental Leftie coming along and pronouncing over what HE feels they 'need'.

The real truth here, I think, is that Noir would rather see the emotional impact of 9/11 downgraded to a more 'PC-acceptable' level. Ultimately, he wants enmity towards the cause of it likewise downgraded.

I for one - for whatever my view is actually worth - consider that totally unacceptable.

If anything, today should remind us of what's still out there, meaning us all great harm.

[Noir]

There are thousands that are grieving over the loss of various loved ones on 9/11. It can cause a prolonged depression, but most folks can still function in such a manner. I think if it disables you, that's when you seek assistance. But to grieve, or be depressed or get a tear in the eye - whether a few months or 20 years down the road, I still think that's simply nature showing itself and human emotion. Personally, I would find it odd if someone were able to let go too easily.

I DO understand your point, and that if it's an "issue" after many years, one should seek help or talk to a therapist. But I only think that's if it somehow disables the person still.

There may be some slight confusion over the term “grief/grieving” I should probably cut the middle-man and just term it as “depression” as that may be more universally understood as expected (in the case of a death etc) but certainly not a healthy long-term state.

[jimnyc]

There may be some slight confusion over the term “grief/grieving” I should probably cut the middle-man and just term it as “depression” as that may be more universally understood as expected (in the case of a death etc) but certainly not a healthy long-term state.

I'm all too familiar with depression, unfortunately. I do think it helps in differentiating to a better extent, but even depressed people can lead full functioning lives. But all in all, if someone is "clinically" depressed, then I agree that some help very well may be needed.

....

But back to the 17 years since 9/11. It just really sent me for a loop when I first read that this year as that sounds SO long ago, and I guess it is! And I hope the worst event on our soil - ever - will be taught and written properly and responsibly.

And I do think a LOT of people had forgotten - in different ways, even though of course they remember the events. If that makes any sense.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

There may be some slight confusion over the term “grief/grieving” I should probably cut the middle-man and just term it as “depression” as that may be more universally understood as expected (in the case of a death etc) but certainly not a healthy long-term state.

What you miss is this. Islam was not a hydra that bit us, then died with its heads cut off. It was a hydra that bit us and we basically ignored its heads and then went about cutting of its tail. You think grieving is all that is involved but such is not the case. The hydra still lives and still actively bites us. And will do so until either we destroy it or else it destroys us!
Are you so damn daft as to not understand this glaring truth-- that Islam exists only to destroy all that is- NOT A PART OF ISLAM!
That attack was not some space aliens....
It was then and still is now the work of a cult over a billion strong that seeks our total destruction. And yours too..
But liberals are so blind they think appeasing Islam will spare them!-Idiots-- Islam spares only those that totally submit to be enslaved.
You can not face up to my posts or defeat the glaring obvious truths that I present -thus you ignore me..
I know what Islam has planned for my family after I am dead.
I know that it is a murder cult that parades as a religion!
Those grieving their losses are correct in doing so.
As are we that understand someday this monster will truly have to be dealt with and likely that will involve many millions dying(WHEN THEY GET THEIR NUKES).
Islam plans on forcing that day.. Some of us think past today..
I am sick of idiots saying- but it wasnt Islam! When I know that it was... the bastards that did it were obeying commands from the Koran! According to their damn cult they did exactly what they were supposed to do..
FFKK ISLAM..-Tyr

[jimnyc]

Here's some reasons as to why we say we "will never forget" - and why many still grieve today, both over individuals and our country.


https://i.imgur.com/aE68Pmm.jpg

What an awesome truck and memorial! This is an 18 wheeler and I'm not even posting a lot of it!

https://i.imgur.com/kEIS9DS.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/A5UNOoq.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/lrf2dFq.jpg

Some more heroes,taking a break some time after the buildings fell of course.

https://i.imgur.com/vZxqP5r.jpg

A massive reason as to the "never forget". Whether working and living in the area as I was, or seeing it live on TV, or looking straight down 5th avenue, or seeing it while sitting in a cabin in Alaska! This kind of stuff gets etched in the mind, and you can only remember the amount of folks that had their lives snuffed out - due to Islamic terrorism. :(

https://i.imgur.com/mwZZekD.jpg

How a few celebrated and used their "freedoms" to speak their minds.

https://i.imgur.com/LDJ2ovd.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/1pCcElC.jpg

Another memorial, so that no one forgetsm even at night, from miles and miles away.

https://i.imgur.com/J0hMfB7.jpg

The USS New York, where much scrap metal was used in building her!!

https://i.imgur.com/35SUqbn.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/rNGlFIX.jpg

I'm only posting one of these. It's scary and something you will never forget. Thanks to Islamic terrorism, some of these folks had to decide to stand and burn to death, or just jump to their deaths as a better alternative.

https://i.imgur.com/Ceu2kZu.jpg

Some of the folks to NEVER FORGET who stood and waited for help they likely thought was coming, and them and the help went down with the building.

https://i.imgur.com/JmkU48l.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Uozgi75.jpg

And the amount of people that worked to service and help NYC, and willingly ran into those buildings and were on their way up to assist all of these poor souls. Police and firemen, so many of them lost that day. We will NEVER FORGET.

https://i.imgur.com/x3SiR6f.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/pI6J8Mp.jpg

[Drummond]

We Brits are familiar with terrorism, terrorist acts, and the traumas associated with them.

BUT, there are aspects of 9/11 - as Jim's pictures illustrate - that, because of not being American, I don't think we can properly identify with. People choosing to drop to their deaths rather than be roasted alive, for example.

I don't think I have a complete enough comprehension to think myself qualified to pass any form of judgment on the full meaning of 9/11 to an American. To a considerable extent -- yes. Not FULLY so, however.

I doubt very much that Noir can truthfully, accurately, claim any better for himself.

In my view, Noir's attempts at judgmentality are made in error ... quite apart from any 'PC' imperative driving him.

I can only say that I support, sympathise with, TRY to identify with, your remembrance of 9/11 today.

[jimnyc]

We Brits are familiar with terrorism, terrorist acts, and the traumas associated with them.

BUT, there are aspects of 9/11 - as Jim's pictures illustrate - that, because of not being American, I don't think we can properly identify with. People choosing to drop to their deaths rather than be roasted alive, for example.

I don't think I have a complete enough comprehension to think myself qualified to pass any form of judgment on the full meaning of 9/11 to an American. To a considerable extent -- yes. Not FULLY so, however.

I doubt very much that Noir can truthfully, accurately, claim any better for himself.

In my view, Noir's attempts at judgmentality are made in error ... quite apart from any 'PC' imperative driving him.

I can only say that I support, sympathise with, TRY to identify with, your remembrance of 9/11 today.

I'm sure everyone still has their stories, and still remembers exactly where they were that day, and at those moments.

I was about 2 miles or so straight north of the towers. Because of CBS studios being in our lobby, they had like a 200 foot TV screen outside, which is where many gathered as it all unfolded, and then we all saw the 2nd plane hit the towers live. I was able to walk out like 50 feet to 5th avenue, because all the traffic more or less came to a stand still. While still far away, we easily saw the towers and all the smoke.

Between trying to get a hold of my wife, which was futile as all the cells were down mostly, as the antennas were on top of the towers. Luckily, she was smart enough to walk to my building and found me and friends outside. Everyone panicked and went separate ways. I had to get my car out of the parking garage, and then sit in traffic and find the one way still open to get get out of the city, as they closed down all the crossings and so many highways in the area. Took forever to get out of the city and get home. It was one scary day for a tad! When planes first went by, right around when the 2nd plane hit, we thought for awhile we were kinda under attack, and would a plane crash elsewhere? Was a great feeling to get back home, until I turned on the TV and my computer and just read and read for days.

For a lot of people, it's something that you more or less will always remember, and know all the details. And even more reason to continue saying "never forget". But this applies to folks on the west coast to the east coast - as it was for that first week, and the unity it brought.

I remember quite a few threads over the years on this very discussion, and it's kinda crazy when you see how it affected everyone in different parts of the nation.

[Gunny]

241 Marines and Sailors were murdered in Beirut by Islamic Jihadists, now called Hezbollah in 1983. Friends and acquaintances were lost. There's NO forgetting and there is NO forgiveness.

[jimnyc]

This is at the chapel at Villanova University, remembering 15 alumni.

https://i.imgur.com/HdxQBOH.jpg

This is in Connecticut, a memorial from the youngest of all the victims

https://i.imgur.com/yO5qptM.jpg

Directly in front of the Pentagon, right where the plane crashed.

https://i.imgur.com/hg56BsJ.jpg

An eternal flame in Massachusetts, in memory of a girl Melissa, along with 92 other Massachusetts residents who died on 9/11.

https://i.imgur.com/Ofuce2t.jpg

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Let's just cut all the mealy mouthed liberal psychobabble bull shit here and cut to the chase... Noir thinks Americans shouldn't be grieving anymore since it's been 17 years, and if we are, we must all be clinically depressed and need a fucking shrink. We need to move on and just forget the fuck about it. It's over, it's done, we should never feel anything again about it. All those thousands of innocent people killed in cold blood, so what, get over it, or you need fucking help, you must be sick in the head.

Sound about right?

I for one don't like this little ferret faced faggots attitude. If that's all he's got to contribute on this day in America, he ought to just shut the fuck up.

[aboutime]

I will happily drop my pants to allow you to KISS MY ASS! Hope you like the taste!:laugh:

[Elessar]

There may be some slight confusion over the term “grief/grieving” I should probably cut the middle-man and just term it as “depression” as that may be more universally understood as expected (in the case of a death etc) but certainly not a healthy long-term state.

Just WHAT affords you the gift to try and Psychoanalyze others all of the time?

You have never, ever been in places some of us have and I am sure you scurry from
any perceived danger in your 3-D life.

You preach and pontificate all the time, but don't have Dick One to show for or prove
your selfish opinions.

[Elessar]

jimnyc or Abbey PIN This!

[Drummond]

Let's just cut all the mealy mouthed liberal psychobabble bull shit here and cut to the chase... Noir thinks Americans shouldn't be grieving anymore since it's been 17 years, and if we are, we must all be clinically depressed and need a fucking shrink. We need to move on and just forget the fuck about it. It's over, it's done, we should never feel anything again about it. All those thousands of innocent people killed in cold blood, so what, get over it, or you need fucking help, you must be sick in the head.

Sound about right?

I for one don't like this little ferret faced faggots attitude. If that's all he's got to contribute on this day in America, he ought to just shut the fuck up.

I think you're right, but, that Noir thinks as he does for a reason.

He wants his own agenda to win through. Being a creature of the Left, what he wants is for enmities towards the practitioners of Islam to cease. He wants, as he's said, remembrance of 9/11 to happen but minus its emotional impact. Why ? So that emotions against the Muslim terrorists responsible are no longer invoked, that's why.

I think we can agree that this expectation, in itself, is an outrage. More though, he's being loyal to the 'PC' nature of his creed, but within his more blinkered BRITISH context for it, believing that nothing stops it being applied to Americans.

In that, Noir is an absolute idiot.

He's also showing enormous arrogance. Somehow, he thinks that HIS imperatives, HIS judgments, supersede those of the average American and are somehow 'superior'. He thinks he has the right to preach, as I see it. In doing that, he's not only demonstrating a half-baked idiocy, but a contempt for your right to think and feel as you will.

I think it's disgusting.

[aboutime]

We should all remember why the FRENCH wear Brown Pants, and Red Shirts. Not to mention why their OLD WW1 and 2 Navy's can be viewed by GLASS BOTTOMED BOATS.:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::l augh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/future+event+q5X8rDMxyB7l.jpg

[jimnyc]

jimnyc or Abbey PIN This!

Done! We'll leave it up here to honor those lost and the heroes of 9/11, both 2001 and 2012. Once enough memorial stuff has been posted, and enough discussion has been had, I'll eventually unstick it I assume?

[jimnyc]

Forgetting events? No.
But forgetting emotions? Yes, and in the most part that is a healthy and inevitable outcome.

There’s also a wave of about-to-be college students who weren’t alive before 9/11, who’s emotions are about as detached as it is possible to be, that changes conversations.

Re-reading this thread and thinking about this, and wanted to add a few things.

Vietnam for example. Was long over and a part of history before we were taught anything about that war. Same of course goes for the World Wars and a bunch of battles. The revolutionary war & the civil war...

Now, while I don't get the "same" emotion going over and remembering those events, as I do with 9/11, as I simply wasn't alive back then. But, I surely do feel an emotional connection to the events. I KNOW that these men and women fought and so many gave their lives for my freedoms. I feel VERY emotional about Vietnam, the wall and other connected memorials and events. Not because I was there or lived through it, but because it was such a HUGE part of our history, and over 58,000 brave soldiers killed in action. 150,000+ wounded. 1,500+ missing in action. And I know just SO many people that were in Vietnam, or have a parent or relative that was there.

WW1 and WW2. Not many left, but sure were some brave soldiers, once again fighting for our freedoms.

So yeah, no doubt that kids that weren't alive during the events of 9/11, or the events of various wars, won't feel or will have detached emotions. I know I have them. I have a lot of pride in these brave soldiers, so many of them lying in Arlington right now. I have a lot of sadness for the amount of deaths, and for the loss the families had to deal with.

And I think that this national pride should apply to everyone. Maybe not everyone has been in the amount or the size of the wars we have seen, or the losses. But I think folks should still all be understanding of those losses, and sacrifices & emotions that can be invoked.

[Drummond]

Re-reading this thread and thinking about this, and wanted to add a few things.

Vietnam for example. Was long over and a part of history before we were taught anything about that war. Same of course goes for the World Wars and a bunch of battles. The revolutionary war & the civil war...

Now, while I don't get the "same" emotion going over and remembering those events, as I do with 9/11, as I simply wasn't alive back then. But, I surely do feel an emotional connection to the events. I KNOW that these men and women fought and so many gave their lives for my freedoms. I feel VERY emotional about Vietnam, the wall and other connected memorials and events. Not because I was there or lived through it, but because it was such a HUGE part of our history, and over 58,000 brave soldiers killed in action. 150,000+ wounded. 1,500+ missing in action. And I know just SO many people that were in Vietnam, or have a parent or relative that was there.

WW1 and WW2. Not many left, but sure were some brave soldiers, once again fighting for our freedoms.

So yeah, no doubt that kids that weren't alive during the events of 9/11, or the events of various wars, won't feel or will have detached emotions. I know I have them. I have a lot of pride in these brave soldiers, so many of them lying in Arlington right now. I have a lot of sadness for the amount of deaths, and for the loss the families had to deal with.

And I think that this national pride should apply to everyone. Maybe not everyone has been in the amount or the size of the wars we have seen, or the losses. But I think folks should still all be understanding of those losses, and sacrifices & emotions that can be invoked.

Great post.

Your final point, touching on the matter of national pride, is perhaps Noir's greatest difficulty in identifying with an American's mindset. National pride, these days at least, is far more a part of your culture and thinking than it is in Noir's.

Fly a Union Jack outside your house, or wherever ... and there are those who'll attack you for being 'racist', or overly jingoistic. Our Socialists in particular (of which, it seems, Noir is one) want us turned into a fully multicultural society, which can't help but mean that our sense of national identity dies a death. In America, as I see it, the opposite is true.

Therefore, 9/11 was always bound to have a particular emotional impact, and significance for you, which Noir just isn't equipped to relate to. He therefore addresses his concept of what's 'right' about the nature of your marking that day, wholly oblivious of what's fully involved.

I judge, though, that Noir just doesn't care. He thinks he's right, and would rather preach his limited 'PC' outlook than be receptive to greater truths.

[LongTermGuy]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/12/2f/97/122f97a9757165c63f2fe22b31877c27--islam-religion-newt-gingrich.jpg



https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.j-HFAlplAZN6GgNXzkRpTgHaFU&pid=15.1&P=0&w=252&h=182

[Elessar]

Reading through this thread again brought back some thoughts.

There were citizens from many nations, not just the USA, that died in the World Trade Center.
90 global nations! Yes, majority USA.

So there WAS a global impact, not just with commerce affected, but with human cost.

https://brilliantmaps.com/9-11-victims/

Countries with 9/11 Memorials:

http://www.memorialmapping.com/memorials/browse-by-country

Noir just does not know what he is talking about, but loves to psycho-babble!

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You try living with such an event and see how your philosophy works for you.

First responders - Police, Firefighters, Ambulance Crews, City Workers - all perished
when those towers collapsed. They put their lives on the line each time they
deploy from their station.

Forgive? NO! Forget? NO!

It will be a cold day in hell before I forget.
Why should any American forget?
Did Islam change its stripes?!! Hell no--it has since quadrupled down on its goal to destroy us.
It is the globalists and their dem party ally that want us to forget, to embrace Islam!
And they both have spent 17 years in efforts trying to engineer that......
Americans are blind to this dangerous alliance = Globalists, Dem party and Islam...
A reality, a scary truth and one that is immensely dangerous to this nation's survival. --Tyr

[High_Plains_Drifter]

https://i.ibb.co/GnMCW3j/muzzie-bitch.jpg

Somali Muslim Mobs Beating Locals & Refusing to Integrate in Maine: “We’re Here To Stay, Whether You Like It Or Not!”

https://www.dcclothesline.com/2019/03/11/somali-muslim-mobs-beating-locals-refusing-to-integrate-in-maine-were-here-to-stay-whether-you-like-it-or-not/?fbclid=IwAR2ROVqS-mKz3fOZMyn05or9kN86XNtv8YwsnuErJhyi2YpnGSvZHi9Wxxk

https://i.ibb.co/vctZx5G/MUSLIM-skank1.jpg

[LongTermGuy]

https://i.ibb.co/GnMCW3j/muzzie-bitch.jpg

Somali Muslim Mobs Beating Locals & Refusing to Integrate in Maine: “We’re Here To Stay, Whether You Like It Or Not!”

https://www.dcclothesline.com/2019/03/11/somali-muslim-mobs-beating-locals-refusing-to-integrate-in-maine-were-here-to-stay-whether-you-like-it-or-not/?fbclid=IwAR2ROVqS-mKz3fOZMyn05or9kN86XNtv8YwsnuErJhyi2YpnGSvZHi9Wxxk

https://i.ibb.co/vctZx5G/MUSLIM-skank1.jpg


Worth repeating.........
https://i.ibb.co/GnMCW3j/muzzie-bitch.jpg

[Abbey Marie]

Every child should watch the planes hitting the towers, the towers coming down, and the photos of the bastards who engineered this. In the first grade-year that they can handle it. But def in elementary school. Then again in high school to reinforce it.

But I’m not naive. Would our liberal DOE even allow it.
Kathianne what is your experience with this topic?

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Every child should watch the planes hitting the towers, the towers coming down, and the photos of the bastards who engineered this. In the first grade-year that they can handle it. But def in elementary school. Then again in high school to reinforce it.

But I’m not naive. Would our liberal DOE even allow it.
@Kathianne (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=8) what is your experience with this topic?
I don't know what the democrats big LOVE for MUSLIMS is all about, honestly, I don't get it, and to date I've never had a leftist able to explain it.

[Abbey Marie]

I don't know what the democrats big LOVE for MUSLIMS is all about, honestly, I don't get it, and to date I've never had a leftist able to explain it.

I don’t know, either.

It’s as though if it’s logical, wholesome, or in line with personal liberty, they’re against it.

[SassyLady]

I don't know what the democrats big LOVE for MUSLIMS is all about, honestly, I don't get it, and to date I've never had a leftist able to explain it.

The big love is because conservatives are skeptical, therefore, it must be embraced by progressives.

[SassyLady]

I'm all too familiar with depression, unfortunately. I do think it helps in differentiating to a better extent, but even depressed people can lead full functioning lives. But all in all, if someone is "clinically" depressed, then I agree that some help very well may be needed.

....

But back to the 17 years since 9/11. It just really sent me for a loop when I first read that this year as that sounds SO long ago, and I guess it is! And I hope the worst event on our soil - ever - will be taught and written properly and responsibly.

And I do think a LOT of people had forgotten - in different ways, even though of course they remember the events. If that makes any sense.

We've been at war for 17 years. As long as we are still fighting against the ideology that led to 9/11 how can anyone forget? Or even want to?

[SassyLady]

Forgetting events? No.
But forgetting emotions? Yes, and in the most part that is a healthy and inevitable outcome.

There’s also a wave of about-to-be college students who weren’t alive before 9/11, who’s emotions are about as detached as it is possible to be, that changes conversations.

Noir, I don't walk around carrying my emotions regarding 9/11 on my sleeve, but it's there just under the surface and when I see photos or videos of that time my emotions are front and center ... because that's just how deep the cut is.

I didn't lose anyone that day but did lose friends in the war afterwards. The pain fades but the emotions will always be there.

I wasn't alive when Pearl Harbor happened but I will get emotional when I see clips of that day.

How can you even think its healthy to forget emotions related to such devasting events? Hopefully, its those emotions that keep us vigilant against those who wish to repeat the ugliness they caused.

It's not unhealthy to keep the emotions ... it's only unhealthy if they interfere with functionality.