When are you planning to leave Manbij ? [Archive] - Debate Policy

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Farah

12-11-2018, 03:11 PM

NightTrain

12-11-2018, 03:21 PM

CSM

12-11-2018, 04:00 PM

Amazing. Some people will believe everything they are told.

Gunny

12-11-2018, 04:03 PM

Hey, this is my second topic and I hope it goes and ends well.

So if you follow external affairs of your country, you should be familiar with the issues between Turkiye and US about the northern part of Syria. In summary, US is trying to establish an illegal state at the norther Syria which is planned to start from the West border of Iraq and reaches up to the Mediterranean Sea. The cities and towns in this region were first "seized" by a terror group named ISIS and then another terror group which is supported by our "ally" US was appointed by US to "take back" these cities and towns. The local people of the region were forced to migrate to Turkiye or to the other parts of Syria when ISIS was in "power" in these regions. Then when it was "taken back" from ISIS, instead of allowing local people to come back to their homes, the demographics of region been tried to be changed by US and US backed terror groups to prepare the ground for this illegal state.

Now Turkiye wants US and US backed groups to leave the region but they persistently want to stay, they are creating observation points, digging tunnels and establishing battle positions.

What do you think about this issue and what do you think that US government is going to do ? and what do you think that how its going to end ?Good question. When is TURKEY planning on leaving Syria?

The US and Russia are in Syria by agreement to pursue and destroy ISIS. Syria used Russian presence and alliance to take care if its internal war. Turkey unilaterally invaded Syria without consent. Assad wasn't likely to say much since Turkey was killing Assad's enemies.

Be that as it may, Turkey has NO right to be in Syria, nor to commit genocide. Kurds have been demanding their own nation since the the First Gulf War, at least, and Turkey has been crying about them and calling them criminals for longer than that. Don't want them in Turkey? Build a damned wall and man it. Seems to be the rage nowadays.

Gunny

12-11-2018, 07:44 PM

BTW ... there is a Middle East sub forum on this board that would answer a LOT of your questions. Like: Should I be here with my propaganda? Or: Shouldn't this thread be in that more appropriate forum? Turkey is covered rather in depth, as a matter of fact.

BTW, why the question? Didn't Erdogan's threat to President Trump to fire on US troops a couple of months ago scare the US out of Syria? WHOOPS!:rolleyes: Golly, gee, George, what do I do NOW?:laugh:

Black Diamond

12-11-2018, 08:11 PM

Fawcett is still swinging? Least she's not a hit and run Troll. Lol

Black Diamond

12-11-2018, 08:12 PM

Gunny

12-11-2018, 09:28 PM

I still need to get caught up on your turkey threads.Apparently SHE needs to get caught up as well :)

Farah

12-12-2018, 03:34 AM

Good question. When is TURKEY planning on leaving Syria?

The US and Russia are in Syria by agreement to pursue and destroy ISIS. Syria used Russian presence and alliance to take care if its internal war. Turkey unilaterally invaded Syria without consent. Assad wasn't likely to say much since Turkey was killing Assad's enemies.

Be that as it may, Turkey has NO right to be in Syria, nor to commit genocide. Kurds have been demanding their own nation since the the First Gulf War, at least, and Turkey has been crying about them and calling them criminals for longer than that. Don't want them in Turkey? Build a damned wall and man it. Seems to be the rage nowadays.

We are not planning to leave Syria as long as Syrian people are being oppressed. Before Turkiye was involved in Syria, we have asked to US and other "allies" to form a safe zone for civilians in Northern Syria which will be protected in common by militaries. US and others have rejected this offer each time. As I said because they have complately a different plan for N.Syria.

No terror organizations can survive without being supported by a country or countries. So "destroying a terror organization" scenario is a myth.

Another scenario that often used by Western countries to involve in ME affairs is "Kurds wants their states" while even most of the Kurds have no idea about such a scenario. I would support the idea for any people in the World that oppressed, for example American native people, they are oppressed since long and they deserve their own states. Kurds were also oppressed during Saddam era and they had their own states in Iraq. They were oppressed during Kmalists era in Turkiye (the party which was always supported by Western countries and today still supported by Western countries against current government) but current govt gave them any rights. In Syria they were oppressed and Turkiye have been involved and gave local people their rights to live in peace. No people in the World has right to claim ownership on the any part of the World which is common property of whole World people, while just the opposite any people in the World has right and such a duty to ensure peace and justice in any part of the World. The actions of terror groups supported by US and other Western countries are contradicting with this mentality. The neutralization of such terror groups cannot be called as genocide. In the first spot when we involved in Syria, we have neutralized more than 3500 ISIS terrorists and in the second hit we have neutralized more than 3500 US backed terror groups. These regions are fully observed by coalition forces, Russia and independent groups, they cant report even a single civilian death caused by Turkish Army despite civlian casualties are pretty natural in such an environment.

By the way, if you make one more personal comment, I will stop replying you.

Farah

12-12-2018, 03:50 AM

You're sadly misinformed. Where do you get your news?

What you're proposing is low-grade Russian propaganda.

We punished Syria and embarrassed Putin when he gassed his own people. The USA is not trying to carve out a country in Syria; that's preposterous.

These kind of weapons are used in Syria countless times, US or Russia or other Western countries involved in Syria in accordance with their plans, have nothing with the use of these weapons. There are also many reports that these weapons are used by Western backed groups to create excuses for Western countries to involve in Syria. While you call anything you dont like as Russian propaganda, you should not ignore the Western propaganda. I dont think that Russia's capability of propaganda could even be comperable with Western propaganda power, so the West is much more capable.

Yes they are planning to establish a state there, most of it was complate and there was one last part where Turkiye cut it to prevent move more. Yesterday while these terror groups were moving to expand their control area under the pretext of fighthing ISIS, US was promising Turkiye that these groups will step back after ISIS kicked out. Today US is establishing headquarters, checkpoints, bases to settle in these region where they "promised" to leave.

http://i67.tinypic.com/dzz39f.jpg

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

12-12-2018, 06:05 AM

We are not planning to leave Syria as long as Syrian people are being oppressed. Before Turkiye was involved in Syria, we have asked to US and other "allies" to form a safe zone for civilians in Northern Syria which will be protected in common by militaries. US and others have rejected this offer each time. As I said because they have complately a different plan for N.Syria.

No terror organizations can survive without being supported by a country or countries. So "destroying a terror organization" scenario is a myth.

Another scenario that often used by Western countries to involve in ME affairs is "Kurds wants their states" while even most of the Kurds have no idea about such a scenario. I would support the idea for any people in the World that oppressed, for example American native people, they are oppressed since long and they deserve their own states. Kurds were also oppressed during Saddam era and they had their own states in Iraq. They were oppressed during Kmalists era in Turkiye (the party which was always supported by Western countries and today still supported by Western countries against current government) but current govt gave them any rights. In Syria they were oppressed and Turkiye have been involved and gave local people their rights to live in peace. No people in the World has right to claim ownership on the any part of the World which is common property of whole World people, while just the opposite any people in the World has right and such a duty to ensure peace and justice in any part of the World. The actions of terror groups supported by US and other Western countries are contradicting with this mentality. The neutralization of such terror groups cannot be called as genocide. In the first spot when we involved in Syria, we have neutralized more than 3500 ISIS terrorists and in the second hit we have neutralized more than 3500 US backed terror groups. These regions are fully observed by coalition forces, Russia and independent groups, they cant report even a single civilian death caused by Turkish Army despite civlian casualties are pretty natural in such an environment.

By the way, if you make one more personal comment, I will stop replying you.

your quote=

In the first spot when we involved in Syria, we have neutralized more than 3500 ISIS terrorists and in the second hit we have neutralized more than 3500 US backed terror groups.
^^^^^ Wow, I love just how massively presumptuous that bold statement is.
So according to you every person killed by Turkish weapons was guilty and thus not an innocent civilian!
So is that like- if they are dead and our Turkish soldiers killed them then by default they are guilty and an enemy?
Where you there to witness each and every death???? -Tyr

Farah

12-12-2018, 08:11 AM

Gunny

12-12-2018, 09:20 AM

We are not planning to leave Syria as long as Syrian people are being oppressed. Before Turkiye was involved in Syria, we have asked to US and other "allies" to form a safe zone for civilians in Northern Syria which will be protected in common by militaries. US and others have rejected this offer each time. As I said because they have complately a different plan for N.Syria.

No terror organizations can survive without being supported by a country or countries. So "destroying a terror organization" scenario is a myth.

Another scenario that often used by Western countries to involve in ME affairs is "Kurds wants their states" while even most of the Kurds have no idea about such a scenario. I would support the idea for any people in the World that oppressed, for example American native people, they are oppressed since long and they deserve their own states. Kurds were also oppressed during Saddam era and they had their own states in Iraq. They were oppressed during Kmalists era in Turkiye (the party which was always supported by Western countries and today still supported by Western countries against current government) but current govt gave them any rights. In Syria they were oppressed and Turkiye have been involved and gave local people their rights to live in peace. No people in the World has right to claim ownership on the any part of the World which is common property of whole World people, while just the opposite any people in the World has right and such a duty to ensure peace and justice in any part of the World. The actions of terror groups supported by US and other Western countries are contradicting with this mentality. The neutralization of such terror groups cannot be called as genocide. In the first spot when we involved in Syria, we have neutralized more than 3500 ISIS terrorists and in the second hit we have neutralized more than 3500 US backed terror groups. These regions are fully observed by coalition forces, Russia and independent groups, they cant report even a single civilian death caused by Turkish Army despite civlian casualties are pretty natural in such an environment.

By the way, if you make one more personal comment, I will stop replying you.First off, I don't give a crap if you don't reply to me. When you buy your own internet message board and state that it exists for you as a sounding board, THEN you get to make the rules. Otherwise, you have already been told exactly how this one works. Any and every one is free to respond to anything you post as long as it is within the rules of this forum.

I will respond to your lies by calling them lies. Your "facts" are laughable. At best. Turkey has labeled kurds "terrorists" for the convenience of its own agenda. I hardly call attacking villages full of women and children and farmers "neutralizing terrorists".

YOU asked a personal question in yourr own thread title: "When are YOU leaving Manjib?" You get a personal response. If you REALLY want to get personal, you're a filthy, lying Turk and you can stop breathing now and I won't give a damn. Hope we're clear on THAT. Not used to someone who knows your bullshit as well as you do, are you?

We'll leave Manjib when the people oppressed by Turkey are no longer threatened by a nation that invaded Syria without cause or permission. If you don't like it, Erdogan can always carry out his threat and fire on US forces. Your minor league team of bullies are only tough on YOUR block. You ain't shit on ours.

Drummond

12-12-2018, 09:34 AM

.......... News (Fill the dotted area with "Good" or "Bad")

A few hours ago Turkish officials announced that the operation is going to start in next few days. You should take your soldiers away as quick as possible.

Firstly ... congratulations are in order. Farah, I applaud your approach. Instead of merely posting material, you are now making efforts to enter into debate. This is what we're here for ! :clap:

I have a couple of questions (granted, they don't particularly address the main subject, though I still think there's relevance in them ..).

1. You say 'You should take your soldiers away as quick as possible'. I want to get the fullest sense of why you say that. Is it a friendly piece of advice, or, is its fullest meaning that of a more intolerant spirit ? I ask because I don't get any sense from your posting that you adopt any pro-Western sympathies, to put it mildly.

2. I noted that in a previous post, you included this ... I quote verbatim:

... cities and towns in this region were first "seized" by a terror group named ISIS and then another terror group which is supported by our "ally" US was appointed by US to "take back" these cities and towns'

Please explain your use of quotation marks. This comes across as a non-acceptance of the accuracy of what you're saying. Are you implying that the US should not be regarded as an ally ? More critically, perhaps ... you also seem to question (from the same level of judgment employed) a questioning of whether ISIS ever seized the region they in fact HAD seized.

It's possible to discern from all of this that you're fundamentally anti-US, and critical of reports which objectively describe ISIS's actions. From this, I must ask: do you retain sympathy, or any level of support at all, for ISIS .. ?

Gunny

12-12-2018, 10:35 AM

Firstly ... congratulations are in order. Farah, I applaud your approach. Instead of merely posting material, you are now making efforts to enter into debate. This is what we're here for ! :clap:

I have a couple of questions (granted, they don't particularly address the main subject, though I still think there's relevance in them ..).

1. You say 'You should take your soldiers away as quick as possible'. I want to get the fullest sense of why you say that. Is it a friendly piece of advice, or, is its fullest meaning that of a more intolerant spirit ? I ask because I don't get any sense from your posting that you adopt any pro-Western sympathies, to put it mildly.

2. I noted that in a previous post, you included this ... I quote verbatim:

Please explain your use of quotation marks. This comes across as a non-acceptance of the accuracy of what you're saying. Are you implying that the US should not be regarded as an ally ? More critically, perhaps ... you also seem to question (from the same level of judgment employed) a questioning of whether ISIS ever seized the region they in fact HAD seized.

It's possible to discern from all of this that you're fundamentally anti-US, and critical of reports which objectively describe ISIS's actions. From this, I must ask: do you retain sympathy, or any level of support at all, for ISIS .. ?The kurds are the same kurds the US has supported since the First Gulf War. There's nothing new here.

Remember when ISIS controlled over half of Iraq? And the US had a coalition of US and Iraqi military and kurd fighters as the ONLY allies to drive ISIS out of Iraq? WHERE was Turkey THEN? Sitting back, bitching about the kurds in Turkey they branded terrorists simply because they are kurds. Not until Russia and Syria was involved and ISIS pretty-much contained and Russia and Syria switching gears to get rid of Assad's enemies in its civil war did Turkey sneak in the back door and attack a bunch of farmers indiscriminately, calling them terrorists.

Then Erdogan tried the same switch this user is trying by claiming the US is protecting terrorists. In fact, aside from Israel, the kurds have been the only real, unwavering ally in the region since all the crap started decades ago. Turkey is a fair-weather ally and complete opportunist. Their intentions are no different than Putin's. That's why I laugh when Erdogan thinks he's making some deal with Putin that will end up in Turkey's favor.

The fact of the matter is, Turkey waited until everyone's back was turned and invaded Syria. Add to this the fact that Erdogan has always been critical of Assad and called for his removal in the past. Now suddenly they are on the same page? They have the extermination of the kurds in common.

Now, I really don't care other than when bullshit artists like this appear painting with a really wide brush. I don't see much difference between pro-Islam (suddenly) Turkey and pro-Islam kurds. Militant ragheads are militant ragheads. But she can do without the whitewash and call it what it is. Genocide. Actually, just a religious civil war because at the end of the day? The kurds they're murdering in Turkey are freakin' Turks. Unless Erdogan is ceding them a nation within his in which case he's invading a sovereign nation.

See how NONE of this works out for the bad guys?I doubt the US is going to get into a war with Turkey over kurds. In realty, NATO and the UN should be stopping Turkey. I just don't see us mobilizing to go kick the shit out of Turkey when there's no real gain for the US. Erdogan is counting on this and money says he will call us cowards. That's their game. Just loud mouthed bullies.

Farah

12-12-2018, 10:38 AM

CSM

12-12-2018, 10:42 AM

So, now that we have established that Farah does not like the US and has no interest in alternative points of view on her postings, I presume we can move on to bigger and better things. Clearly, nothing Farah can post here will win any friends for Turkey or recruits for ISIS from this membership.

Gunny

12-12-2018, 10:44 AM

Farah

12-12-2018, 10:51 AM

Farah

12-12-2018, 10:55 AM

Today, another bomb attack done to Cobanbey town of Syria by US backed terror groups, wounds 6 people. Why US backed groups are attacking these regions ? Because these regions were the part of their imaginary illegal country and they gets mad beucase they could not invade these towns under the pretext of "figthing" ISIS.

CSM

12-12-2018, 11:06 AM

Today US backed terror groups held a bomb attack to a hospital in Al-Bab town of Syria which was controlled by ISIS and seized by Turkish Army. (Which was probably planned to be seized by US backed terror groups if Turkiye would not involve) and murdered 8 years old kid. You wont hear such kind of news in your "free" country.

Oh we hear about it ... along with reams of other propaganda being spewed by ISIS sympathizers. While we are at it, lets mention the 40,000 people slaughtered by the Turkish government since 1984 or the 1600 human rights violations committed by the Turks (according to the UN) and the 80+ journalists locked up by that same government (so much for YOUR "freedom").

Works both ways Farah...

Drummond

12-12-2018, 11:19 AM

You were also invited to enter a debate in my first topic, but you did not, because you didnt like to face with facts.

Yes this is a friendly advice, we would not like to harm our allies. There are not only US units, there are units from different Western countries. I put it in quotes because yes we are allies on the paper but most of Turkish people (at least %60-70) does not like and even hates US govt. It is nothing different for US too, US dont likes Turkiye (and dont like many other countries) but see them as "tools" to achieve their goals. So in summary we are allies because US needs Turkiye in this region. US govt also wants to take control of their "allies" and they hate the ones they cant control, for example current Turkish govt. I put the "seize" part into question marks because most of people around ME thinks that ISIS is just a theatre and just another tool used by different countries, especially by US.

I saw no invitation for debate in the thread containing your 'first topic'. All you did was offer us material ... minus additional debate from yourself.

This is why your current contribution invites greater welcome ... NOW, you're debating with us.

You say that 60-70 percent of the Turkish people hate the US Government. Why ? Is it personal dislike of just the current Government, or are they hated just for being American, and daring to have a world presence which best befits both their power and values ?

Your claim that the US dislikes Turkey and most other countries is surely ludicrous. I must make clear, if you're not already aware of it, that I'm not American myself, but British. Nonetheless, I state with confidence that your assertion is ludicrous ... I believe that most Americans are too busy with other issues, not least their own domestic ones, to retain much knowledge of Turkey, much less consciously decide to 'hate' that country.

For your part, to what extent is that true in reverse, and how much of this 'hatred' of America from your side of things comes from ill-informed propaganda sources ? I invite your honest response to that question, Farah ...

I think it's from that ill-informed basis that you also presume the US wishes to 'control' its allies. I say .. 'NONSENSE' to that charge. The US is a world leader in advocating the value of freedom ... it's core to what the American people believe in.

And I can speak as a citizen of a 'US ally' nation myself. I assure you, the US definitely does NOT 'control' us !!! [If any power is a far better candidate for that of a 'control freak' entity ... it's the European Union .....].

Gunny

12-12-2018, 11:25 AM

Today US backed terror groups held a bomb attack to a hospital in Al-Bab town of Syria which was controlled by ISIS and seized by Turkish Army. (Which was probably planned to be seized by US backed terror groups if Turkiye would not involve) and murdered 8 years old kid. You wont hear such kind of news in your "free" country.

Today, another bomb attack done to Cobanbey town of Syria by US backed terror groups, wounds 6 people. Why US backed groups are attacking these regions ? Because these regions were the part of their imaginary illegal country and they gets mad beucase they could not invade these towns under the pretext of "figthing" ISIS.I want to thank you, Turk. Thanks for proving EVERYTHING I have posted about Turks and Turkey whenever the topic has come up. You indeed are everything i have ever stated and more.

You couldn't have done a better job :)

Farah

12-12-2018, 11:47 AM

Oh we hear about it ... along with reams of other propaganda being spewed by ISIS sympathizers. While we are at it, lets mention the 40,000 people slaughtered by the Turkish government since 1984 or the 1600 human rights violations committed by the Turks (according to the UN) and the 80+ journalists locked up by that same government (so much for YOUR "freedom").

Works both ways Farah...

So again are you trying to justify a crime by falsely blaming someone else with the same crime as you did in my first topic ? This does not make you innocent. If what you mean by "40.000" is terror organization members, this is what happens if you are a terrorist. They are also recognized as terrorists by US govt. Seem like you are not even aware of your own govt.

Having a journalist ID card does not make you someone untouchabled, if you violate the laws you will be punished. This is another issue that Western people are heavily brainwashed by their govt and govt controlled media. Most of these so called "journalists" has direct ties with terror organizations. Actually these fake personal images like "journalist" or "prolector in an Universty" or "Christian priest or imam" or "charity workers" are just popular covers for terrorists. On the other hand, there are not 80 journalist in Turkiye, there are 14.000 journalist in Turkiye who has media ID cards. You can accept these 80 people as "Julian Assange" or "Snowden" of Turkiye, when we ignore Assange and Snowden are much more innocent then the ones we have.

Gunny

12-12-2018, 11:58 AM

https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/palestinian-groups-israel-reach-truce-in-gaza-after-deadly-flare-up-21612

Stop attacking Gaza – Turkey tells Israel
On Tuesday, Turkey called for end to "Israel's unlawful, tyranny and occupying attitude" in Gaza.
"Israel should stop these attacks immediately against the people of Gaza,” Turkey's presidential spokesperson Ibrahim Kalin said in a statement.
"The world should say 'stop' to the invading and expansionist policies of Israel which aims to to turn Palestinian land into an open air prison besides the provocative action of changing the status of Jerusalem. Turkey will continue to support the rightful cause of the Palestinian people."

Some morning hypocrisy.

Farah

12-12-2018, 11:58 AM

Okay lets back to the main subject.

In the region where Turkiye is going to start an operation, there are ;

- 4000 US soldiers
- 300 France soldiers
- 100 British soldiers
- 50 Italian soldiers
- 60.000 PKK terrorists
- 26 US military bases
- 1 France military base

CSM

12-12-2018, 12:00 PM

So again are you trying to justify a crime by falsely blaming someone else with the same crime as you did in my first topic ? This does not make you innocent. If what you mean by "40.000" is terror organization members, this is what happens if you are a terrorist. They are also recognized as terrorists by US govt. Seem like you are not even aware of your own govt.

Having a journalist ID card does not make you someone untouchabled, if you violate the laws you will be punished. This is another issue that Western people are heavily brainwashed by their govt and govt controlled media. Most of these so called "journalists" has direct ties with terror organizations. Actually these fake personal images like "journalist" or "prolector in an Universty" or "Christian priest or imam" or "charity workers" are just popular covers for terrorists. On the other hand, there are not 80 journalist in Turkiye, there are 14.000 journalist in Turkiye who has media ID cards. You can accept these 80 people as "Julian Assange" or "Snowden" of Turkiye, when we ignore Assange and Snowden are much more innocent then the ones we have.

Again? I wasn't aware that I had justified any crimes before this ...

It appears that anyone you don't like is labelled a "terrorist" and thus justified in any action you and your backward country care to take against them to include torture and murder. I don't now where you think you get your moral superiority from but I am willing to bet it comes out of some Muslim writing someplace. By the way, I did not say there were 80 journalists in Turkey... I said there were 80 journalists in jail in Turkey....huge difference to the intelligent but probably not to one such as yourself.

CSM

12-12-2018, 12:02 PM

Farah

12-12-2018, 12:13 PM

Again? I wasn't aware that I had justified any crimes before this ...

It appears that anyone you don't like is labelled a "terrorist" and thus justified in any action you and your backward country care to take against them to include torture and murder. I don't now where you think you get your moral superiority from but I am willing to bet it comes out of some Muslim writing someplace. By the way, I did not say there were 80 journalists in Turkey... I said there were 80 journalists in jail in Turkey....huge difference to the intelligent but probably not to one such as yourself.

ISIS is also a terror organization and had about 30.000-40.000 members and did it only in 5-6 years. Having soo much members does not justify someones criminal actions, again you are trying to justify terrorism with false propositions. I meant stop acting like there are only 80 journalists. There are many foreign news agencies operating in Turkiye, there are many news agencies that wasting all their time the attack Turkish govt since years. As I said Western people are heavily brainwashed.

CSM

12-12-2018, 12:19 PM

ISIS is also a terror organization and had about 30.000-40.000 members and did it only in 5-6 years. Having soo much members does not justify someones criminal actions, again you are trying to justify terrorism with false propositions. I meant stop acting like there are only 80 journalists. There are many foreign news agencies operating in Turkiye, there are many news agencies that wasting all their time the attack Turkish govt since years. As I said Western people are heavily brainwashed.

I just have to ask... if you are so convinced that all westerners are so brainwashed... why are you bothering to post here?

I do find your misconceptions and uneducated opinions rather amusing however.

Farah

12-12-2018, 12:21 PM

I just have to ask... if you are so convinced that all westerners are so brainwashed... why are you bothering to post here?

I do find your misconceptions and uneducated opinions rather amusing however.

I like to share facts and it motivates me much more when I see someone gets mad when he/she faces with facts.

Gunny

12-12-2018, 12:24 PM

You Turks better get some reinforcements then.IIRC, most of those US troops are SF, Sergeant Major.

I think someone needs to piss test Erdogan. The way he's running his mouth and flexing his muscle, I get the idea whatever he's smoking has him thinking he's running the Ottoman empire again. Someone needs to remind him the Ottoman Empire no longer exists because it got its ass kicked by Allied troops in WWI.

THis will be an interesting scenario. Erdogan is painting himself into a corner. Turks only understand bullying force. He's putting himself into a position where he has no choice but advance. What President Trump's response will be is not only anyone's guess, but will pretty-much decide the outcome.

On one hand, I have no love for Islamic fighters, rebels, whatever you want to call them. On the other hand, these have been steadfastly loyal to the US since 91, and to abandon them is to leave them to die. While Turkey is about as advanced as Iraq, it does have a large, conventional army. Technologically, they stand about as much of a chance against us as Saddam did. Against farmers with small arms they'll fare just as well as Saddam did against farmers with small arms.

CSM

12-12-2018, 12:28 PM

I like to share facts and it motivates me much more when I see someone gets mad when he/she faces with facts.

LOL...and there you have it. You are here to troll and nothing more. Thank you for admitting that.

Here is a little factoid for you.... not one member of this board is "mad" at your presentation of "facts". As many here have already pointed out to you, you are merely spreading propaganda and that is something we fully expect from people of your ilk.

Now that you have assured us that you have nothing of substance to contribute here, I will only take the time to make fun of you in your postings when I am in dire need of fictional entertainment.

Gunny

12-12-2018, 12:28 PM

I like to share facts and it motivates me much more when I see someone gets mad when he/she faces with facts.Who's mad? I love to see some idiot "not talk to me" :laugh: Talk about a 'WIN". You made yourself look childish.

You have no facts. Just the lies you've been fed. Wherever it is you're considered important and intelligent? You need to stay there. Same as your conventional army of bullies needs to choose its targets more wisely.

CSM

12-12-2018, 12:34 PM

IIRC, most of those US troops are SF, Sergeant Major.

I think someone needs to piss test Erdogan. The way he's running his mouth and flexing his muscle, I get the idea whatever he's smoking has him thinking he's running the Ottoman empire again. Someone needs to remind him the Ottoman Empire no longer exists because it got its ass kicked by Allied troops in WWI.

THis will be an interesting scenario. Erdogan is painting himself into a corner. Turks only understand bullying force. He's putting himself into a position where he has no choice but advance. What President Trump's response will be is not only anyone's guess, but will pretty-much decide the outcome.

On one hand, I have no love for Islamic fighters, rebels, whatever you want to call them. On the other hand, these have been steadfastly loyal to the US since 91, and to abandon them is to leave them to die. While Turkey is about as advanced as Iraq, it does have a large, conventional army. Technologically, they stand about as much of a chance against us as Saddam did. Against farmers with small arms they'll fare just as well as Saddam did against farmers with small arms.

I do believe the Erdogan is trying to take advantage of what he sees as an opportunity amidst the chaos in Syria to take action against the Kurds. They have been a pain in the butt to Turkey since 1984. I have no doubt he contemplates a "final solution" for that segment of the population. As for the Turkish military ... it is the second largest in NATO but primarily because every male of military age is required to perform military service (no civilian alternative to service) and those conscripts serve anywhere from three weeks to a year dependent upon their job. I agree with your assessment of their capability.

Farah

12-12-2018, 12:38 PM

LOL...and there you have it. You are here to troll and nothing more. Thank you for admitting that.

Here is a little factoid for you.... not one member of this board is "mad" at your presentation of "facts". As many here have already pointed out to you, you are merely spreading propaganda and that is something we fully expect from people of your ilk.

Now that you have assured us that you have nothing of substance to contribute here, I will only take the time to make fun of you in your postings when I am in dire need of fictional entertainment.

Yes, facing with facts makes you mad, this is why you are using a rough language and making false accusations and making personal comments.

NightTrain

12-12-2018, 12:47 PM

CSM

12-12-2018, 12:53 PM

Yes, facing with facts makes you mad, this is why you are using a rough language and making false accusations and making personal comments.

ah, and you based that assessment on your extensive knowledge of Western culture, society and extensive knowledge of my character and personality. You are not worthy of my anger though I do find you amusing.

I have no idea what makes you think that anyone on this message board will take anything you say at face value.

Gunny

12-12-2018, 12:53 PM

Yes, facing with facts makes you mad, this is why you are using a rough language and making false accusations and making personal comments.Tsk tsk CSM. Using rough language :laugh: "False accusations and personal comments". Apparently the Turk has a really poor grasp of the English language. Or is just a typical hypocritical Turk.

Anyone notice what a perfect Democrat she would make? :)

Farah

12-12-2018, 12:56 PM

Here's a fun article outlining Turkey's recent march to dictatorship :

IN TURKEY under President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the tweet has been turned into a crime, and a troubled democracy is being turned into a dictatorship. Gradually but inexorably, a nation that once aspired to be an exemplar of enlightened moderation is being transformed by Mr. Erdogan into a dreary totalitarian prison. In the latest setback, last week, 23 journalists were sentenced (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43337655) to prison for between two and seven years on patently ridiculous charges that they were members of a terrorist organization (https://expressioninterrupted.com/no-verdict-in-media-trial-court-to-hear-more-statements-in-march/) and had tweeted about it. Two others were convicted on lesser charges of supporting a terrorist organization.

Why cannot The Washington Post be objective? An article targeting upon the Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan of The Republic of Turkey titled “Erdogan is transforming Turkey into a totalitarian prison (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/erdogan-is-transforming-turkey-into-a-totalitarian-prison/2018/03/11/19a4cde8-23c9-11e8-94da-ebf9d112159c_story.html)” bearing the signature of “Editorial Board” has been published in the Washington Post on 11th March 2018. The article contradicts with realities as well as it contains a large number of contradictions within itself. Apart from this, it has conflictive aspects ruling out both the country which the article has been published and many contemporary country implementations of the world called as “democratic”.

IN TURKEY under President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the tweet has been turned into a crime, and a troubled democracy is being turned into a dictatorship. Gradually but inexorably, a nation that once aspired to be an exemplar of enlightened moderation is being transformed by Mr. Erdogan into a dreary totalitarian prison. In the latest setback, last week, 23 journalists were sentenced to prison for between two and seven years on patently ridiculous charges that they were members of a terrorist organization and had tweeted about it. Two others were convicted on lesser charges of supporting a terrorist organization.

I suppose WP has not seen that the social media tools are used as guns such as twitter. It ignores deliberately that especially in armed Gezi riot in 2013, social media acted as a tool in directing Turkish Republic, overthrowing the state by putting the government in difficulty and the state got loss of billions of dollars. Although WP was not in Gezi incidents, it would have known who triggered the incident. Twitter shares are regarded as legal evidence in many countries in the world. Court decisions are made through these evidences. For instance, Stephen Fry (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/nov/11/twitter-joke-trial-stephen-fry) was convicted to pay a penalty because of making a share on twitter. Since a simple joke causes a penalty, why explanations aiming at subverting the state, assassination inducements, devastation guidance and impulsions to be a cause loss of life, property and chastity of innocent civilians are not considered as a crime? Is it innocent to support terror organizations? Should this not be a crime if the addressee of the social media account like twitter is a president? Is this not a crime if the person who commits the crime is a journalist? Hundreds of examples can be found.

Mr. Erdogan, the target of a failed coup attempt in July 2016, has embarked on a campaign of repression against perceived enemies in the press, government, academia and law enforcement, among other pillars of Turkish society. More than 60,000 people have been arrested and 150,000 forced from their jobs. Mr. Erdogan’s prime targets are the perceived followers of the opposition cleric Fethullah Gulen, who now lives in Pennsylvania. Mr. Erdogan claims Mr. Gulen — once his ally in Turkish politics — had incited the coup attempt, hence the charge of a “terrorist organization.” Mr. Gulen denies it. How is a coup prepared?

Is there any coup decided in the evening, implemented in the morning? Let’s learn from Igor Markov (https://www.quora.com/profile/Igor-Markov):First of all, be very clear on what you want to accomplish in the shot term and in the long term, and which rules you are going to follow. A classic coup d’état assumes a significant degree of civility, minimal bloodshed, and the preservation of the core political system, while replacing one or a handful of leaders and, perhaps, some institutions that appear to be broken (such as the judiciary). A coup also assumes being firmly in control of what’s going on. Breaking these conditions leads to a failed coup. Anyway, here are the key points Make sure that you are or can be, in principle, supported by a large fraction of the population and political elites. Establish a network of high-placed co-conspirators that would share the same goals and trust each other, while evading state security. Without such participants, this would not be a coup. Obtain covert control over elite military units and, ideally, police and state security (so that they are ready to follow your orders when necessary). If the military simply stays neutral, this is not a military coup. Get foreign support, or at least make sure you will not be attacked by the world powers. Getting explicit foreign support, especially weapons and large amounts of money, can be risky as this would put your motives in doubt and undermine your standing in the country. Identify your main political opponents and their support networks. Figure out how they can be neutralized. Obtain control over some mass media, ideally in advance, to ensure reasonable coverage of your actions. Prepare to counter aggressive propaganda. Don’t put much faith in your own aggressive propaganda – this often backfires. Identify your weak points and protect them. Family and friends. Personal security. Skeletons in your closet. If you lose support of the people (say, due to brutality of your action), your chances of staying in power are low. Other weak points may include your finances, foreign trade sanctions, aggression by neighboring countries, economic instability, etc. Manage perceptions. For example, if the country is falling apart and few people understand this, grabbing power at this point will leave the impression that you destroyed the country. Have a political program with a plan for power sharing and, ideally, a transition to democracy. Not only this would be the right thing to do, but otherwise you’d be putting yourself at too much risk. The execution of the coup must be carefully planned and usually consists of taking physical control of key locations and people, including residences and offices of key opponents, military/police barracks and HQs, transportation hubs (airports, train stations), mass media, power stations, and communication nodes. Overall, military coups are largely a thing of the past because it is more difficult to manipulate information and people today (the world is much more interconnected and people often self-organize). The few military coups that were successful in recent times (say, in Egypt) only look like military coups on the surface and have political, geopolitical, and religious dimensions. Does WP want to justify the actors who played a role in these coup processes? WP can find the articles of the independent local and foreign journalists on this link (http://15.07.gov.tr/#home) if it wants to have knowledge about who attempted to stage the coup and it has not found yet.

Turkey once had a robust, independent press, but Mr. Erdogan has waged a multifront campaign: closing media outlets, forcing others into new ownership, and using friendly judges and prosecutors. In the latest cases, some reporters and editors were convicted for what they said on Twitter. A lawyer representing two journalists, Baris Topuk, said at an earlier hearing: “In our opinion, the name of the organization in which the defendants are accused of being members should be TTO: Tweetist Terrorist Organization. There are no weapons or bombs in the case, only news articles and tweets.” Ali Akkus, who was news editor of the now-defunct Zaman daily, had said on Twitter, “No dictator can silence the press.” The use of the word “dictator” was singled out by a prosecutor in the charges against him. Mr. Akkus received a sentence of seven years and six months in prison.

What is wrong with imposing a necessary penalty on those who planned, performed the coup and took part in the stages of the coup? It is impossible to run away from coup crime by calling the president as a Dictator.

Cuma Ulus, the editor of the daily Millet, got the same sentence and declared earlier during the proceedings: “I have been a journalist for 21 years. I stood against terrorism and violence, [and] defended expression of freedom during all my life.” In the indictment, prosecutors cited three tweets and 22 retweets, accusing him of stirring up frenzy against the government.

Nobody can always protect their innocence as they do not commit a crime in every stage of their lives. It is the court’s duty to distinguish the crime and the accused. This type of WP’s publishing is of no use rather than making the works of courts difficult. The persons who are now in prison were sent to jail by jurisdiction and again kept in by them. They will be free according to the decision of justice.

Separately, 17 current and former writers, cartoonists and executives from the Cumhuriyet newspaper are also on trial. Mr. Erdogan is reportedly planning an assault on Internet broadcasting and free expression online, as well.

FETO Cult, who staged the coup, has been organized larger than as supposed. The attorneys of Cumhuriyet Newspaper did not even ask a question to the persons whose crimes became definite and clear that they bombed their own building. It should be explained by the newspaper. Even if it was the blast bomb, the pursuer of the lawsuit should be the newspaper.

The show trials underscore how far Turkey has fallen from Western norms of democracy, human rights and rule of law. Mr. Erdogan is happily marching alongside Russia, China, Egypt, Cuba and others where legitimacy to rule rests on coercion and thought control. Mr. Erdogan’s dictatorship must be called out for what it is. Even if he covers his ears, the United States and other nations must protest, and loudly.

200 people were killed by the police (http://killedbypolice.net/) in the USA which is shown as the country of the advanced democracy as yet in the 2nd month of the year. According to WP news, 987 civilians (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2017/) were slaughtered by the police. Hundreds of incidents occur including civilian death in the country of the advanced democracy, France (https://www.google.fr/search?num=100&ei=_UamWt3tOJGW5wLd0raQAQ&q=French+police+officer+killed+&oq=French+police+officer+killed+&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30k1l10.20963.20963.0.22404.1.1.0.0.0.0 .232.232.2-1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.217....0.2wkhM-Nh90Q) every year. It is same with Germany, England, Italy, Spain and other champion countries of democracy. WP should take care of the crimes of its own country turning the world to a blood bath (https://www.google.fr/search?num=100&ei=i0emWvm8FY3-zgLLjaH4DQ&q=us+crimes+in+world&oq=USA+crimes+in+&gs_l=psy-ab.3.1.0i22i10i30k1l3j0i22i30k1j0i22i10i30k1l4j0i2 2i30k1j0i22i10i30k1.144231.149634.0.155263.18.18.0 .0.0.0.702.3029.0j7j5j6-1.13.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..5.13.3029...0j35i39k1j0i67k1j0i10k1j0i203k1j0i 10i203k1j33i21k1.0.X1ac65GCPwo) instead of cooperating with the members of FETO_Cult in order to justify the players of the coup who also include journalists.

https://www.straturka.com/why-cannot-the-washington-post-be-objective/

NightTrain

12-12-2018, 12:57 PM

When using a source, Farah, it is required that you post the link from where you got it.

CSM

12-12-2018, 01:00 PM

Tsk tsk CSM. Using rough language :laugh: "False accusations and personal comments". Apparently the Turk has a really poor grasp of the English language. Or is just a typical hypocritical Turk.

Anyone notice what a perfect Democrat she would make? :)

Damn.... "rough language"? Me? Say it aint so! You know what happens when a Sergeant Major's "bullshit meter" pegs in the red!

Gunny

12-12-2018, 01:00 PM

Why cannot The Washington Post be objective? An article targeting upon the Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan of The Republic of Turkey titled “Erdogan is transforming Turkey into a totalitarian prison (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/erdogan-is-transforming-turkey-into-a-totalitarian-prison/2018/03/11/19a4cde8-23c9-11e8-94da-ebf9d112159c_story.html)” bearing the signature of “Editorial Board” has been published in the Washington Post on 11th March 2018. The article contradicts with realities as well as it contains a large number of contradictions within itself. Apart from this, it has conflictive aspects ruling out both the country which the article has been published and many contemporary country implementations of the world called as “democratic”. IN TURKEY under President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the tweet has been turned into a crime, and a troubled democracy is being turned into a dictatorship. Gradually but inexorably, a nation that once aspired to be an exemplar of enlightened moderation is being transformed by Mr. Erdogan into a dreary totalitarian prison. In the latest setback, last week, 23 journalists were sentenced to prison for between two and seven years on patently ridiculous charges that they were members of a terrorist organization and had tweeted about it. Two others were convicted on lesser charges of supporting a terrorist organization. I suppose WP has not seen that the social media tools are used as guns such as twitter. It ignores deliberately that especially in armed Gezi riot in 2013, social media acted as a tool in directing Turkish Republic, overthrowing the state by putting the government in difficulty and the state got loss of billions of dollars. Although WP was not in Gezi incidents, it would have known who triggered the incident. Twitter shares are regarded as legal evidence in many countries in the world. Court decisions are made through these evidences. For instance, Stephen Fry (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/nov/11/twitter-joke-trial-stephen-fry) was convicted to pay a penalty because of making a share on twitter. Since a simple joke causes a penalty, why explanations aiming at subverting the state, assassination inducements, devastation guidance and impulsions to be a cause loss of life, property and chastity of innocent civilians are not considered as a crime? Is it innocent to support terror organizations? Should this not be a crime if the addressee of the social media account like twitter is a president? Is this not a crime if the person who commits the crime is a journalist? Hundreds of examples can be found. Mr. Erdogan, the target of a failed coup attempt in July 2016, has embarked on a campaign of repression against perceived enemies in the press, government, academia and law enforcement, among other pillars of Turkish society. More than 60,000 people have been arrested and 150,000 forced from their jobs. Mr. Erdogan’s prime targets are the perceived followers of the opposition cleric Fethullah Gulen, who now lives in Pennsylvania. Mr. Erdogan claims Mr. Gulen — once his ally in Turkish politics — had incited the coup attempt, hence the charge of a “terrorist organization.” Mr. Gulen denies it. How is a coup prepared? Is there any coup decided in the evening, implemented in the morning? Let’s learn from Igor Markov (https://www.quora.com/profile/Igor-Markov):First of all, be very clear on what you want to accomplish in the shot term and in the long term, and which rules you are going to follow. A classic coup d’état assumes a significant degree of civility, minimal bloodshed, and the preservation of the core political system, while replacing one or a handful of leaders and, perhaps, some institutions that appear to be broken (such as the judiciary). A coup also assumes being firmly in control of what’s going on. Breaking these conditions leads to a failed coup. Anyway, here are the key points Make sure that you are or can be, in principle, supported by a large fraction of the population and political elites. Establish a network of high-placed co-conspirators that would share the same goals and trust each other, while evading state security. Without such participants, this would not be a coup. Obtain covert control over elite military units and, ideally, police and state security (so that they are ready to follow your orders when necessary). If the military simply stays neutral, this is not a military coup. Get foreign support, or at least make sure you will not be attacked by the world powers. Getting explicit foreign support, especially weapons and large amounts of money, can be risky as this would put your motives in doubt and undermine your standing in the country. Identify your main political opponents and their support networks. Figure out how they can be neutralized. Obtain control over some mass media, ideally in advance, to ensure reasonable coverage of your actions. Prepare to counter aggressive propaganda. Don’t put much faith in your own aggressive propaganda – this often backfires. Identify your weak points and protect them. Family and friends. Personal security. Skeletons in your closet. If you lose support of the people (say, due to brutality of your action), your chances of staying in power are low. Other weak points may include your finances, foreign trade sanctions, aggression by neighboring countries, economic instability, etc. Manage perceptions. For example, if the country is falling apart and few people understand this, grabbing power at this point will leave the impression that you destroyed the country. Have a political program with a plan for power sharing and, ideally, a transition to democracy. Not only this would be the right thing to do, but otherwise you’d be putting yourself at too much risk. The execution of the coup must be carefully planned and usually consists of taking physical control of key locations and people, including residences and offices of key opponents, military/police barracks and HQs, transportation hubs (airports, train stations), mass media, power stations, and communication nodes. Overall, military coups are largely a thing of the past because it is more difficult to manipulate information and people today (the world is much more interconnected and people often self-organize). The few military coups that were successful in recent times (say, in Egypt) only look like military coups on the surface and have political, geopolitical, and religious dimensions. Does WP want to justify the actors who played a role in these coup processes? WP can find the articles of the independent local and foreign journalists on this link (http://15.07.gov.tr/#home) if it wants to have knowledge about who attempted to stage the coup and it has not found yet. Turkey once had a robust, independent press, but Mr. Erdogan has waged a multifront campaign: closing media outlets, forcing others into new ownership, and using friendly judges and prosecutors. In the latest cases, some reporters and editors were convicted for what they said on Twitter. A lawyer representing two journalists, Baris Topuk, said at an earlier hearing: “In our opinion, the name of the organization in which the defendants are accused of being members should be TTO: Tweetist Terrorist Organization. There are no weapons or bombs in the case, only news articles and tweets.” Ali Akkus, who was news editor of the now-defunct Zaman daily, had said on Twitter, “No dictator can silence the press.” The use of the word “dictator” was singled out by a prosecutor in the charges against him. Mr. Akkus received a sentence of seven years and six months in prison.What is wrong with imposing a necessary penalty on those who planned, performed the coup and took part in the stages of the coup? It is impossible to run away from coup crime by calling the president as a Dictator. Cuma Ulus, the editor of the daily Millet, got the same sentence and declared earlier during the proceedings: “I have been a journalist for 21 years. I stood against terrorism and violence, [and] defended expression of freedom during all my life.” In the indictment, prosecutors cited three tweets and 22 retweets, accusing him of stirring up frenzy against the government. Nobody can always protect their innocence as they do not commit a crime in every stage of their lives. It is the court’s duty to distinguish the crime and the accused. This type of WP’s publishing is of no use rather than making the works of courts difficult. The persons who are now in prison were sent to jail by jurisdiction and again kept in by them. They will be free according to the decision of justice. Separately, 17 current and former writers, cartoonists and executives from the Cumhuriyet newspaper are also on trial. Mr. Erdogan is reportedly planning an assault on Internet broadcasting and free expression online, as well. FETO Cult, who staged the coup, has been organized larger than as supposed. The attorneys of Cumhuriyet Newspaper did not even ask a question to the persons whose crimes became definite and clear that they bombed their own building. It should be explained by the newspaper. Even if it was the blast bomb, the pursuer of the lawsuit should be the newspaper. The show trials underscore how far Turkey has fallen from Western norms of democracy, human rights and rule of law. Mr. Erdogan is happily marching alongside Russia, China, Egypt, Cuba and others where legitimacy to rule rests on coercion and thought control. Mr. Erdogan’s dictatorship must be called out for what it is. Even if he covers his ears, the United States and other nations must protest, and loudly. 200 people were killed by the police (http://killedbypolice.net/) in the USA which is shown as the country of the advanced democracy as yet in the 2nd month of the year. According to WP news, 987 civilians (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2017/) were slaughtered by the police. Hundreds of incidents occur including civilian death in the country of the advanced democracy, France (https://www.google.fr/search?num=100&ei=_UamWt3tOJGW5wLd0raQAQ&q=French+police+officer+killed+&oq=French+police+officer+killed+&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30k1l10.20963.20963.0.22404.1.1.0.0.0.0 .232.232.2-1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.217....0.2wkhM-Nh90Q) every year. It is same with Germany, England, Italy, Spain and other champion countries of democracy. WP should take care of the crimes of its own country turning the world to a blood bath (https://www.google.fr/search?num=100&ei=i0emWvm8FY3-zgLLjaH4DQ&q=us+crimes+in+world&oq=USA+crimes+in+&gs_l=psy-ab.3.1.0i22i10i30k1l3j0i22i30k1j0i22i10i30k1l4j0i2 2i30k1j0i22i10i30k1.144231.149634.0.155263.18.18.0 .0.0.0.702.3029.0j7j5j6-1.13.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..5.13.3029...0j35i39k1j0i67k1j0i10k1j0i203k1j0i 10i203k1j33i21k1.0.X1ac65GCPwo) instead of cooperating with the members of FETO_Cult in order to justify the players of the coup who also include journalists.

https://www.straturka.com/why-cannot-the-washington-post-be-objective/Punctuation must also be a crime in Turkey. Along with facts and truth.

Drummond

12-12-2018, 01:00 PM

I like to share facts and it motivates me much more when I see someone gets mad when he/she faces with facts.

I find this laughable.

Perhaps you're improving (??) .... BUT .... certainly before this thread, all you did was post material designed to foist a form of 'blame game' on America and the Western powers ['The Criminal West' ... remember ??]. I offered you the suggestion of balance ... the opening of another called 'The Criminal East'. 'Strangely', you weren't at all interested in taking up that suggestion.

Your apparent regard for so-called 'facts' seemingly only goes one way. Those agreeing with your worldview, you not only propagate, but you've the expectation that they'll be absorbed into our worldview. But have you, to date, had the smallest interest in anything WHATEVER that'd facilitate such a process, for you, coming from the opposite direction, that of critical facts, facts critical of the side you argue from ??

Show us a sign of the same flexibility of thought and attitude that you want, perhaps would even demand, from your fellow-posters on this forum !!

NightTrain

12-12-2018, 01:03 PM

So you don't like Washington Post, then?

Very well. How about Britain's Independent?

Recep Tayyip Erdogan: Turkish President could face arrest in Sweden over 'genocide’ lawsuitComplaint is country's first to be lodged against head of state, which could see him arrested if pursued by prosecutor's office

Swedish lawmakers have filed a complaint against the Turkish President, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, accusing him of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes.

Five MPs filed the lawsuit with Sweden’s public prosecutor for Mr Erdogan’s role in the bloody conflict between Turkish forces and Kurdish militants since 2015.

The complaint is the first in Sweden to be lodged against a head of state, and also names several other Turkish ministers including the country's Prime Minister Binali Yildirim. If it is pursued, it could see an arrest warrant issued against Mr Erdogan.

"We are five lawmakers handing in a complaint... (requesting) punishment for genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes," Left party MP Annika Lillemets told a news conference in Stockholm.

It comes after a 2014 law was passed to allow the country’s courts to preside over any case involving crimes against humanity, regardless of where the crime was committed.

“Anyone, who in order to completely or partially destroy a national or ethnic group of people....is guilty of genocide,” the legislation reads.

Sweden’s prosecutor will decide whether to launch an investigation from the complaint. If it decides to pursue the claims, Mr Erdogan could face an arrest warrant in Sweden.

Green Party member Carl Schlyter said he hoped other European countries would consider taking similar action.

"If (Mr Erdogan) is hindered from roaming around in Europe and influencing European countries the way he wants, then I hope that this will affect his politics," he said.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/recep-tayyip-erdogan-latest-news-sweden-genocide-lawsuit-turkey-president-kurdish-a7835951.html

CSM

12-12-2018, 01:06 PM

"https://www.straturka.com/why-cannot...-be-objective/"

This explains why Farah is so deluded.

Gunny

12-12-2018, 01:08 PM

Know what the difference between Saddam Hussein and Erdogan is besides the fact Hussein was deposed by the US and executed and Erdogan is just working on it?

Not a whole bunch from where I sit.

NightTrain

12-12-2018, 01:12 PM

"https://www.straturka.com/why-cannot...-be-objective/"

This explains why Farah is so deluded.

Yep. Can't even find who owns that blog, which means it's an Erdogan toadie outlet. Lots of pro-muslim propaganda on that site, though, strangely enough.

CSM

12-12-2018, 01:15 PM

Yep. Can't even find who owns that blog, which means it's an Erdogan toadie outlet. Lots of pro-muslim propaganda on that site, though, strangely enough.

Erdogan himself has been a rather "fiery" muslim himself. Spent some jail time for inciting religious hatred from what I have read.

NightTrain

12-12-2018, 01:20 PM

Here's another bit of information about Erdogan and what we know he's up to :

Be sure you click all those hypertext links to see the sources, Farah. In that way, you'll find the truth about your country instead of what you're being lied to about from a muslim dictator.

Turkey's Recep Tayyip Erdogan is a criminal. Our foreign policy should treat him as such.
Earlier this year, former Panamanian dictator Manuel Noriega died (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/30/world/americas/manuel-antonio-noriega-dead-panama.html) quietly in Panama City ending a life marked by fantastic highs and lows. Noriega was Panamanian military officer and CIA informant who let greed get the best of him. He cast his lot with Colombian drug lords flooding their cocaine into the United States. The George H.W. Bush administration had enough of their former partner and client and ordered an invasion (http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-u-s-invades-panama) of Panama to snatch Noriega. He surrendered after two weeks, stood trial in the United States, and served 17 years of a 30-year sentence before being released for good behavior.
Meanwhile, over the years, many analysts and authors have drawn analogies between Turkish leader Recep Tayyip Erdogan and various world leaders: Does Erdogan seek to become a Khomeini-like figure over his own Islamic Republic (never mind that Turkey is largely Sunni rather than Shi’ite like neighboring Iran)? Or is he just after power and wealth, like Russian leader Vladimir Putin? Or is he motivated by personal animus toward his political adversaries like the late Hugo Chavez in Venezuela?
The reality is that Erdogan is his own man and has carved his own unique path as he has upended Turkey’s democracy, even as he seems to have incorporated lessons from or modeled himself after all three at various times.

Increasingly, however, it appears that Noriega may be a better analogy for Erdogan, as the Reza Zarrab case proceeds through court.
Reza Zarrab, of course, was a former business associate of Erdogan arrested on March 19, 2016, by the FBI upon arrival at Miami International Airport. The Department of Justice charged Zarrab with money laundering, bank fraud, and generally working to help Iran evade U.S. sanctions.
As the case has proceeded, more Turkish officials have come under the spotlight. On September 6, 2017, the Justice Department charged (https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/former-turkish-minister-economy-former-general-manager-turkish-government-owned-bank) Turkey’s former Minister of Economy and the general manager of a Turkish state-owned bank. On October 30, 2017, the Justice Department filed new papers (https://timinhonolulu.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/322-main.pdf) in the U.S. District Court, southern district of New York, in the case of Zarrab and his business partners. What is significant in the latest indictment is how Erdogan is mentioned. On page 17, for example, it reads:
The evidence also includes documents and communications concerning Zarrab’s efforts to develop a relationship with then Prime Minister Erdogan to garner support and protection for his business. For example, Zarrab and Erdogan both attended the April 12, 2013, wedding of another [then-Minister of the Economy Zafer] Çağlayan relative, where Zarrab spoke with Erdogan. Zarrab and [then Halk Bank General Manager Suleyman] Aslan exchanged electronic communications discussing this meeting. Thereafter, in a recorded call on April 16, 2013, Zarrab described more about his discussion with Erdogan. In response to Aslan’s inquiry about the progress of Zarrab’s efforts to buy a bank (as discussed with Iranian officials, in order to establish a conduit for transactions for Iran), Zarrab responded, "I thought about it until I begged the twenty-four prophets, but they say to only beg of God. I went to the Prime Minister ... I went to him and talked about the thing I was going to do and I explained it that day at the wedding. I will go back and will say, Mr. Prime Minister, if you approve, give me a license, I will go though BDDK [the Turkish bank regulator] even if I bought the bank anyway."
Erdogan may lead a NATO country, but his name is appearing increasingly in court documents which suggest that he was intimately involved in a conspiracy to evade U.S. sanctions on Iran for both ideology and profit. The Zarrab case may be Erdogan’s nightmare (https://anfenglish.com/features/michael-rubin-reza-zerrab-case-is-erdogan-s-nightmare-22040) because there are signs his one-time confidant is singing like a canary (http://dailycaller.com/2017/11/01/turkish-gold-trader-appears-poised-to-accept-plea-deal-in-iran-sanctions-case/) to federal prosecutors in exchange for a plea deal.
Now, there’s no way the United States is going to seize Erdogan, the leader of a NATO country, the way it once seized Noriega, at least so long as he remains in power and wise enough to remain inside Turkey once he leaves power. That said, Erdogan’s involvement in Zarrab’s alleged crimes suggest relations between the United States and Turkey are soon going to get worse. Erdogan may seek to tightly control Turkey’s judiciary, but he has no power to silence the U.S. Justice Department. Nor, for that matter, do President Trump and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, both of whom might be inclined to deal with Erdogan for pragmatic reasons, have the power to curtail the investigation.
For Erdogan, the truly embarrassing aspects might be yet to come. While he imprisons any journalist inside Turkey who writes about his own corruption, the U.S. court records will become public and Erdogan’s corruption will be exposed to the world, and any Turk with an internet connection, to see. Suggesting the evidence is fake — as Erdogan implausibly does with regard to the taped phone calls implicating him in the embezzling of more than a billion dollars — won’t work when Zarrab speaks openly or pleads guilty.
It’s quite astounding to see a world leader and nominal ally so deeply and personally involved in such shady economic business. The episode should negate the arguments of any self-described realist who says that Turkey’s location and its role in NATO mandate cooperation with it as a strategic partner.
For the sake of filling his bank accounts, Erdogan has been willing to sell the West out to Iran. His greed, corruption, and cynicism should give pause to any defense official or diplomat who seeks continued partnership with Turkey on the F-35 joint strike fighter. That the British military appears so sanguine about relying on Turkey (https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/19/f35_fighter_engines_turkey_overhaul/) for F-35 engine overhaul and maintenance suggests that Whitehall is simply not serious about the United Kingdom’s defense.
NATO or not, to cooperate with Turkey on defense or, indeed, on any other matter of strategic concern is malpractice. So long as Erdogan leads Turkey, the United States should quarantine its former partner. In effect, it should treat Turkey as Noriega’s Panama, absent the invasion of course.
It’s long past time to calibrate U.S. policy to the reality of Erdogan’s behavior and policies rather than the image some Turkish diplomats and the U.S. representatives and senators who belong to the Congressional Turkey Caucus (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/disband-the-congressional-turkey-caucus/article/2623936) seek to craft. Court documents increasingly suggest Erdogan is a criminal and, like Manuel Noriega, he should be treated as such.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/turkeys-recep-tayyip-erdogan-is-a-criminal-our-foreign-policy-should-treat-him-as-such

Gunny

12-12-2018, 01:21 PM

Erdogan himself has been a rather "fiery" muslim himself. Spent some jail time for inciting religious hatred from what I have read.Turkey's one saving grace under Attaturk is that it was secular. He's like the Jesus Christ of "modern" Turkey. He put nationalism above all which is one reason Turks are so arrogant.

Erdogan has also made statement to the affect that Israel will not be allowed to have Jerusalem as its capitol. I posted it way back when. He is dangerously close to taking that raghead plunge.

NightTrain

12-12-2018, 01:21 PM

Erdogan himself has been a rather "fiery" muslim himself. Spent some jail time for inciting religious hatred from what I have read.

Yeah, he's a muzzie radical for sure.

Thank God he showed himself before we gave him F-35s and decent hardware. It would really suck to fight our own hardware.

NightTrain

12-12-2018, 01:24 PM

And now, dear Farah, I fear I must leave to take care of some business around town.

Play nicely with your new best friends CSM and Gunny. They'll take real good care of you.

CSM

12-12-2018, 01:27 PM

Yeah, he's a muzzie radical for sure.

Thank God he showed himself before we gave him F-35s and decent hardware. It would really suck to fight our own hardware.

Truthfully, sales of military hardware to foreign countries do not include full capability in that hardware. The F-35s they get are NOT as fully capable as what the US military has. We sell them everything they have but not everything WE have.

Farah

12-12-2018, 01:36 PM

During the recent Afrin operation against US backed forces, the positions that was planned to resist for a few months were seized in 2 hours.

Is this a sign of amateurishness of US army ?

Gunny

12-12-2018, 01:37 PM

The big issue I see in a face-off with Turkey is what Putin is going to do. He's been courting Turkey for quite some time, and vice-versa. It would be almost comical if the stakes weren't so high. Erdogan courting Putin thinking he's going to get over on Russia, and Putin courting Turkey thinking he's going to get over on Erdogan. Throw I ran in there for good measure and you got the 3 Stooges.

Turkey borders Russia and the Black Sea. Everyone is keenly aware of this. Turkey used us when it suited them to protect themselves from the USSR. They'll do the same in reverse. Turkey's past proves it. It has sold out for centuries BC. Anything we do, if we do anything at all, will have to assure Putin we aren't staying. He'll let Turkey pretend it's its own master so long as it suits him, but he won't let it come under anyone else's control but his. I imagine Putin is laughing at Erdogan thinking he's Putin's equal. I would be too.

Gunny

12-12-2018, 01:45 PM

By the way Farah Did I mention I REALLY liked living in Greece? The Cretians are some really cool people.

You should visit :halo9:

CSM

12-12-2018, 01:47 PM

During the recent Afrin operation against US backed forces, the positions that was planned to resist for a few months were seized in 2 hours.

Is this a sign of amateurishness of US army ?

You mean Operation Olive Branch? You rug makers were not fighting the US Army. Be glad you weren't. That operation began in January and went until March...sounds like a few months to me. Your camel riders accomplished a lot though:

between 385 and 510 civilians have been reported killed since the operation started.[51][56][60] Other war crime allegations include the mutilation of a female corpse by Turkish-backed Free Syrian Army (TFSA) fighters,[79] the killing of civilians due to indiscriminate shelling by Turkish forces,[80] the use of chemical gas by the Turkish Army,[81] and the indiscriminate shooting of refugees fleeing from the conflict area into Turkey by Turkish border guards.[82]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Olive_Branch

I bet you are very proud of those terrorists you sent in there. Just be glad those camel jockeys were NOT fighting the US Army!

Farah

12-12-2018, 01:47 PM

By the way @Farah (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=3966) Did I mention I REALLY liked living in Greece? The Cretians are some really cool people.

You should visit :halo9:

I think you are trying to provoke me but I really have no idea about what is "cretians". I will google it.

Farah

12-12-2018, 01:53 PM

Gunny

12-12-2018, 01:56 PM

The terrorists caught by Syrian local forces during Afrin operation begs to be delivered to Turkish soldiers. The Arabs dont want to deliver it but Turkish soldiers insists to take it.

Why a terrorists cry to be delivered to Turkish soldiers ? Do you have any idea ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NJrwPcRAAkThey're not terrorists, one. Two, Assad is using chemical weapons against kurds. Which would you prefer? Being tortured less by Turks than by Syrians. Might even live. Doubtful, but at least there's a chance.

Gunny

12-12-2018, 01:57 PM

I think you are trying to provoke me but I really have no idea about what is "cretians". I will google it.Cretians are Greeks from the island of Crete.

Farah

12-12-2018, 02:01 PM

They're not terrorists, one. Two, Assad is using chemical weapons against kurds. Which would you prefer? Being tortured less by Turks than by Syrians. Might even live. Doubtful, but at least there's a chance.

Ofcourse they are terrorists and I have explained it in the first post. If you keep helping terrorists, we will also call you terrorists soon.

CSM

12-12-2018, 02:04 PM

Ofcourse they are terrorists and I have explained it in the first post. If you keep helping terrorists, we will also call you terrorists soon.

OMG!!! Please don't call us terrorists!! That would hurt our feelings (wouldn't it?)

CSM

12-12-2018, 02:08 PM

Ok Farah, I am outta here. I did have fun playing with you though....

Gunny

12-12-2018, 02:13 PM

Ofcourse they are terrorists and I have explained it in the first post. If you keep helping terrorists, we will also call you terrorists soon.You mean like all Armenians were terrorists? You label people for the convenience of slaughtering them. You re explanation has no validity and means nothing when I can see otherwise with my own eyes.

You can call me whatever you want. I'm not out murdering women and children and calling them terrorists. I wouldn't even murder Turks and I despise you people as much as anyone and you ARE arrogant criminals, liars, users, thieves and bullies. You have NO right to do anything beyond the Turkish border. It's unlawful. Waging war against noncombatants is unlawful.

You and your country are in the wrong no matter which way you choose to present it.

Farah

12-12-2018, 02:14 PM

Turkish Security forces have neutralized at least 2700 mines and bomb traps in Al-Bab town of Syria. Each bomb takes around 3 hours to 8 hours to be neutralized. Many Turkish soldiers have been martyred while nautralizing the bombs and they saved at least 25.000 lifes.

Elessar

12-12-2018, 02:15 PM

Yawns at Farah.

When faced with 2 persons that have pretty damn good knowledge of
the situation(s) there, you still fight back and dig your hole of ignorance
even deeper.

Gunny

12-12-2018, 02:16 PM

Farah

12-12-2018, 02:22 PM

You mean like all Armenians were terrorists? You label people for the convenience of slaughtering them. You re explanation has no validity and means nothing when I can see otherwise with my own eyes.

You can call me whatever you want. I'm not out murdering women and children and calling them terrorists. I wouldn't even murder Turks and I despise you people as much as anyone and you ARE arrogant criminals, liars, users, thieves and bullies. You have NO right to do anything beyond the Turkish border. It's unlawful. Waging war against noncombatants is unlawful.

You and your country are in the wrong no matter which way you choose to present it.

As I said noone has such a right to claim ownership on anywhere in the World. US backed terror groups cannot claim ownership on any part of Syria or World. They have to live in peace with others like any other people.

Gunny

12-12-2018, 02:31 PM

As I said noone has such a right to claim ownership on anywhere in the World. US backed terror groups cannot claim ownership on any part of Syria or World. They have to live in peace with others like any other people.There are no US-backed terror groups anywhere.

As far as the World goes, Turkey has no right to claim ANY part of the world nor be in any part of the World except Turkey. Syria's internal conflict is none of Turkey's business.

So, when is Turkey planning to leave Manjib? If it is at all? After it murders a bunch of noncombatants? YOU are the bad guys in the eyes of the World you are so concerned with. Nobody is applauding your country's genocidal mission. One can only hope you are paid back tenfold for your crimes against humanity.

Turkey is the terrorist group. No different than any other terrorist nation at the moment.

Farah

12-12-2018, 02:40 PM

Farah

12-12-2018, 02:44 PM

There are no US-backed terror groups anywhere.

As far as the World goes, Turkey has no right to claim ANY part of the world nor be in any part of the World except Turkey. Syria's internal conflict is none of Turkey's business.

So, when is Turkey planning to leave Manjib? If it is at all? After it murders a bunch of noncombatants? YOU are the bad guys in the eyes of the World you are so concerned with. Nobody is applauding your country's genocidal mission. One can only hope you are paid back tenfold for your crimes against humanity.

Turkey is the terrorist group. No different than any other terrorist nation at the moment.

Its our business and its your business and its the business of anyone else to ensure justice and peace in the World. You call me childish but you are the childish in fact. If you are honest with what you are telling, you can start with dividing US into pieces to create countries for different people living there. Does this make sense ? I dont think this make sense but this is what you are defending for others but not applying for yourself.

Gunny

12-12-2018, 02:46 PM

Pro-PKK Kurdish guy asking Iraqi Kurdish woman provocative questions to make her talk hateful against Turkish soldiers and she says soldiers have no harm to them but just the opposite they are harmed by terror groups, which is intensely advertised by Western countries as "Kurdish right's protectors".

She says instead of asking me about Turkish soldiers, you should ask me whether or not we have some suitable living conditions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vflcui9D-HMSure. The PKK is IN Turkey. Don't need to wander outside your own border to take care of it. It also does not represent ALL kurds which Erdogan has labeled terrorists.

Try again.

By the way, who is Turkey exactly to murder people based on race or religion? Turks have no race of their own. Turk is a nationality. You are a mix of Arabs, Persians, Europeans and Asians. You really have some identity issues both in identifying yourselves and your enemies.

Much as I'd lie to look stuff up to slam you around some more, I already have a toddler that just woke up to care for. Nothing is going to get through your head anyway. You are as brainwashed as it gets. And a typical Turk.

Which, I mean to point out based on a previous post you made. Americans don't hate Turks nor Turkey. They could care less about you. Go find all the threads I've started on the Middle East and look at the responses to the Turkey ones in particular. NO ONE CARES about you. I think you should have your asses kicked and NO ONE CARES.

I don't think your propaganda is going to change that.

YOU hate us. That is a one-sided feeling on your part. Most people here don't even know the difference between a Turk and a Saudi. And again, don't care.

tailfins

12-12-2018, 02:49 PM

Ofcourse they are terrorists and I have explained it in the first post. If you keep helping terrorists, we will also call you terrorists soon.

I won't judge the lens in which you view the world. You have a certain way that you have been told to believe and you seem to conform to that pretty well. What do you believe a woman's place is? Is there anyone you believe who is not to be questioned? Perhaps your President or a religious leader? Perhaps your father? I am genuinely curious.

Farah

12-12-2018, 02:52 PM

Sure. The PKK is IN Turkey. Don't need to wander outside your own border to take care of it. It also does not represent ALL kurds which Erdogan has labeled terrorists.

Try again.

By the way, who is Turkey exactly to murder people based on race or religion? Turks have no race of their own. Turk is a nationality. You are a mix of Arabs, Persians, Europeans and Asians. You really have some identity issues both in identifying yourselves and your enemies.

Stop lying. There are more than 5 million Kurds living in peace in Turkiye. You cant provoke me with such a language, so dont waste your time to try. Yes I have many genetical mixture and I am proud of it. We dont distinguish people based on their backgrounds, we aim to live in peace and justice and defend these values for anyone or anything in the World.

Gunny

12-12-2018, 02:52 PM

I won't judge the lens in which you view the world. You have a certain way that you have been told to believe and you seem to conform to that pretty well. What do you believe a woman's place is? Is there anyone you believe who is not to be questioned? Perhaps your President or a religious leader? Perhaps your father? I am genuinely curious.:rolleyes:

Farah

12-12-2018, 02:58 PM

Gunny

12-12-2018, 03:02 PM

Stop lying. There are more than 5 million Kurds living in peace in Turkiye. You cant provoke me with such a language, so dont waste your time to try. Yes I have many genetical mixture and I am proud of it. We dont distinguish people based on their backgrounds, we aim to live in peace and justice and defend these values for anyone or anything in the World.I have nothing to lie about. You apparently do. US troops are part of a multinational coalition of forces to seek out and destroy ISIS, Turkey apparently forgot the mission.

No lie is going to cover genocide now anymore than it did with the Armenians. So you keep selling yourself your little story.

tailfins

12-12-2018, 03:08 PM

By the way, I just remembered it. My father's family is an old Ottoman cavalrymen family, so they raised heavy armored chivalries for Ottoman Army and partipicated in wars. In the Ottoman era, to be able to part of these army union, your family had to have pure Turk roots. So I am the granddaughter of noble Ottoman chivalries and proud of it.

You should make a quick research about how many Crusade Armies are neutralized by these army units, these numbers are a bit "HUGE".

I fully respect your heritage. I would like your perspective on a Western concept known as Machismo. Machismo is prevalent among the Spanish and Portuguese population in the Western Hemisphere. It is despised among the English speaking population, however. You can read about it in the link below.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machismo

Farah

12-12-2018, 03:12 PM

I have nothing to lie about. You apparently do. US troops are part of a multinational coalition of forces to seek out and destroy ISIS, Turkey apparently forgot the mission.

No lie is going to cover genocide now anymore than it did with the Armenians. So you keep selling yourself your little story.

There is no such thing as "fighting ISIS", its a theatre. They cant survive without being supported and when we think which countries are most dominant in the region, its pretty clear that they are supported by whom.

I have almost zero military knowledge but any ordinary people could ask such a simple question. How come ISIS can move around in Syrian deserts for years while the World's strongest (on the paper) armies are watching around for 7/24 ? Does this make sense ? Makes zero sense at all, they are allowed to do whatever they want.

tailfins

12-12-2018, 03:26 PM

Farah Is that a self photo in your avatar? If it is you have pretty eyes. I like the hues of brown and green.

Farah

12-12-2018, 03:36 PM

@Farah (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=3966) Is that a self photo in your avatar? If it is you have pretty eyes. I like the hues of brown and green.

Yes, thanks. My father has green eyes and my mother has brown eyes and I have the mixture of both.

Farah

12-12-2018, 03:42 PM

I fully respect your heritage. I would like your perspective on a Western concept known as Machismo. Machismo is prevalent among the Spanish and Portuguese population in the Western Hemisphere. It is despised among the English speaking population, however. You can read about it in the link below.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machismo

If I understand it correctly, I like the machismo of men. So I like men to be protective over women and kids and animals and anything other needs to be protected. This is true nature of life.

Farah

12-12-2018, 03:59 PM

According to local sources, US Army starts to withdraw to the southern parts of Syria, terror group declares full mobilisations for its units and calls Assad regime for help against a possible operation.

Drummond

12-12-2018, 06:25 PM

Punctuation must also be a crime in Turkey. Along with facts and truth.

--- God. Yep, Gunny, that's ridiculous. Paragraphs ... would Farah have us believe that Turkey has no concept of what they are ?

Drummond

12-12-2018, 06:33 PM

If I understand it correctly, I like the machismo of men. So I like men to be protective over women and kids and animals and anything other needs to be protected. This is true nature of life.

You must hate Islam, then !! Islam systematically abuses women on a number of levels, from Burkha-wearing to insisting they are subservient second class citizens.

Western values are vastly different. The West (certainly in modern times) is replete with cultures that think women's rights, their welfare ditto, all matters enormously. I hope that propaganda in your part of the world isn't preventing you from accepting that as truth.

Drummond

12-12-2018, 06:43 PM

There is no such thing as "fighting ISIS", its a theatre. They cant survive without being supported and when we think which countries are most dominant in the region, its pretty clear that they are supported by whom.

Ridiculous. OF COURSE there's such a thing as fighting ISIS !!! How on earth can you believe otherwise ??

Haven't ISIS been engaged militarily, time and again, and been defeated time and again ??

As to their 'support' ... well, check this out:

https://www.quora.com/How-is-ISIS-funded-and-how-do-they-operate

What sets IS apart and gives them tremendous power is their takeover of the financial sector and have been assuring the continuity of retail banking operations in that region: overall they seem to be controlling of 140 deposit bank branches.

The method initiated by terrorists to seize the financial sector shocked by its magnitude. That a terrorist group could seize banks and financial institutions was previously un-thought of and it has laid the foundation for a terrorist state. In June 2014, the IS took over the second largest city in Iraq and took control of several branches of private and public banks including the Central Bank of Iraq (Mosul branch). The Governor of the Nineveh province reported in mid-June 2014 that the IS had stolen US$425 million in cash from the Mosul branch of the Central Bank of Iraq. According to the financial statements of the banks operating in Nineveh province as of December 31, 2013, their cumulative cash money in safes and current accounts/deposit balance exceeded US$1 billion. According to witness accounts and regulatory bodies, Mosul banks are still operating commercial and personal transactions.

In many parts of Syria, the banking system is also under the control of terrorists. The IS has taken control of a number of cities in Syria including Ar-Raqqah and Deir es-Zor where several banks were operating.

There's your answer, Farah. ISIS gets its funding from thieving it.

I have almost zero military knowledge but any ordinary people could ask such a simple question. How come ISIS can move around in Syrian deserts for years while the World's strongest (on the paper) armies are watching around for 7/24 ? Does this make sense ? Makes zero sense at all, they are allowed to do whatever they want.

Nobody in ISIS has heard of the concept of disguise ? I daresay Burkha-wearing doesn't help in identifying any would-be terrorists, either. Nonetheless ... they ARE militarily confronted, they ARE defeated in that way. No amount of propaganda hinting otherwise changes the truth of this.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

Gunny

12-12-2018, 06:49 PM

Its our business and its your business and its the business of anyone else to ensure justice and peace in the World. You call me childish but you are the childish in fact. If you are honest with what you are telling, you can start with dividing US into pieces to create countries for different people living there. Does this make sense ? I dont think this make sense but this is what you are defending for others but not applying for yourself.Your comment is ridiculous, and has no bearing on the issue.

You are in fact QUITE childish and naive. By YOUR standard -- remember YOUR words -- the US would be justified in loading up and kicking the shit out of every unpeaceful nation in the World and it would be our "business to ensure justice and peace in the World". That would include most Middle Eastern nations and ESPECIALLY Turkey.

What you are saying might makes right in which case you and your country are screwed.

Lastly I would like to point out that you have a bigger problem at the moment. Note the drooling idiot who hates American women that is just gushing all over you. You might as well burst his bubble and clue Don Juan into the fact that Turks hate Americans just because we breathe.

So, farah, you are at least worth some comedic relief. I've never seen tailfins be nice to a female before :laugh: Y'all gotta get a load of this: Abbey Kathianne :laugh2:

Drummond

12-12-2018, 07:01 PM

Its our business and its your business and its the business of anyone else to ensure justice and peace in the World. You call me childish but you are the childish in fact. If you are honest with what you are telling, you can start with dividing US into pieces to create countries for different people living there. Does this make sense ? I dont think this make sense but this is what you are defending for others but not applying for yourself.

Taking the bolded part of your text on its own, and interpreting it literally ... it isn't hard to agree with you.

Why ?

That's easily answered. Farah, has it occurred to you that such an argument justifies American interventions and presences in other parts of the world ?

Iraq comes to mind. OK, the justification for 2003 was that forces had to go in to deal with the unresolved, suspected WMD situation. But, in doing so, the US (along with allies, though it was mainly a US action) deposed Saddam and administered that country minus his tyrannies. Democracy was introduced. New-found freedoms increasingly became the norm.

Justice and peace were served by that intervention, Farah. Yes ... ISIS subsequently intervened themselves in that territory, supplying Iraqis with the opposite experience of that which the Americans had offered. They were militarily tackled, however ...

https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/2018/04/30/major-combat-operations-against-isis-in-iraq-have-ended-what-happens-now/

Afghanistan. Did it not serve the interests of justice and peace to knock out Al Qaeda's terrorist training camps there ?

Face it .. the US has been a truly great force for peace and justice !! Farah, would you care to thank America for its service to the world ? Here, on this forum, you've an excellent opportunity to do exactly that !

Gunny

12-12-2018, 07:21 PM

Taking the bolded part of your text on its own, and interpreting it literally ... it isn't hard to agree with you.

Why ?

That's easily answered. Farah, has it occurred to you that such an argument justifies American interventions and presences in other parts of the world ?

Iraq comes to mind. OK, the justification for 2003 was that forces had to go in to deal with the unresolved, suspected WMD situation. But, in doing so, the US (along with allies, though it was mainly a US action) deposed Saddam and administered that country minus his tyrannies. Democracy was introduced. New-found freedoms increasingly became the norm.

Justice and peace were served by that intervention, Farah.

Afghanistan. Did it not serve the interests of justice and peace to knock out Al Qaeda's terrorist training camps there ?

Face it .. the US has been a truly great force for peace and justice !! Farah, would you care to thank America for its service to the world ? Here, on this forum, you've an excellent opportunity to do exactly that !I'm taking her words at face value. The part she cannot comprehend is that IF the US behaved in the manner in which she states, it would put us in DIRECT OPPOSITION with Turkey. She is unwilling to accept the fact that Turkey is the bad guy here. We view its actions as unjust, genocidal, aggressive and criminal.

So, the criminal is in the eyes of the beholder, is it not? Back to one of my original statements in this thread. We are not in Syria uninvited. Turkey is. We are in Syria for a specific mission that apparently got put on the back burner by Assad and Erdogan so they could wage war against an ethnicity they don't like. In so doing they put themselves in direct opposition to the people who up to that point had been aiding us AND THEM. Also in so doing, Turkey has aligned itself with Assad who has repeatedly used chemical weapons.

So who are the criminals here? The US is chasing criminals, not ethnicities it finds displeasing. Assad and Erdogan used fighting ISIS as a smokescreen to further their own PERSONAL, criminal agendas.

Gunny

12-12-2018, 08:00 PM

The US appears to be putting the pressure on to try to assuage Turkey’s concerns.

that was liberated from ISIS in 2016 by the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF). The SDF are the main partners of the US-led anti-ISIS coalition and have been fighting ISIS for years, helping to liberate Raqqa and other areas from terrorist groups.

However, there are tensions in Manbij because Turkey also wants to play a role and has sent troops into northern Syria to back Syrian rebels groups. Turkey asserts that the SDF is backed by the People’s Protection Units (YPG), which Ankara views as a terrorist organization and is the Syrian branch of the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK).

Into this complex mix comes the US, which has sought to balance Turkey’s concerns with its role in eastern Syria. The US has sent forces to Manbij. During the past year when tensions between the YPG and Turkey escalated, the US has sought to warn Turkey from increasing clashes. This happened in October when Turkey shelled border areas in northern Syria.

The US now wants to set up observation points in northern Syria to cool tensions, but also wants Turkey to play a role near Manbij with joint patrols. These patrols involve both US and Turkish troops, but don’t involve the SDF or Syrian rebels, who are partners of the US and Turkey, respectively.

In a bizarre development, the US and Turkey have taken over from the local people in this respect. However, in meetings over the weekend the US stressed that it was meeting with civil society groups including NGOs, adding that it would work on “implementing stabilization projects in Syria, and Syrian refugees,” and “reaffirmed the US commitment to providing lifesaving humanitarian assistance to Syrians.” The US also said that it “discussed issues facing the Syrian diaspora and the necessity for a Syrian-led and owned political process under UN Security Council resolution 2254.”

The language of this statement is being watched closely in Ankara and among SDF and Kurdish groups in eastern Syria. The Kurds have been the bulwark of the SDF fighting ISIS, and many are engaged in the battle in Hajin in southern Syria along with other Syrian groups, such as local Arabs and Christians, who are fighting to liberate the last part of Syria from ISIS control.

Excerpt. Entire article https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/US-reaches-out-to-Turkey-to-discuss-eastern-Syria-574111

As I have stated more than once here and elsewhere, the kurds the US are supporting are not part of the YPG or PKK which Turkey has been alleging. Turkey is just willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater as it was the Armenians 100 years ago. Some things never change.

The US wants to stabilize Eastern Syria while Turkey wants to blow up it. This isn't rocket science. In this regard, Turkey is hampering a peace process in a country that isn't theirs. Who's the bad guy?

NightTrain

12-12-2018, 08:13 PM

During the recent Afrin operation against US backed forces, the positions that was planned to resist for a few months were seized in 2 hours.

Is this a sign of amateurishness of US army ?

:laugh2:

Thank you, I needed a good laugh!

If you think Turkey would represent more than a speedbump against America's military might, you've got more than a few screws loose.

If you can find it, see what happened to the 4th largest standing army in the world - Iraq - when we sent some of our military to deal with them. See Operation Desert Storm and then Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Turkey, as far as I'm concerned, is a 3rd world country. You are a backwards nation blindly following a ruthless muslim dictator, and that's really a shame.

It wasn't that long ago that we all had high hopes for you joining 1st world countries.

No, Farah, the only hope for you now is for all of you to rise up and overthrow Erogodan and reinstall a democracy. But... that doesn't look likely, the way he's been crushing any semblance of political opposition or journalists exposing his corruption and power grabs.

By the way, did you hear about how some of your Turkish thugs beat up Kurdish protesters here in the USA? Yes, it was quite an international incident.

The Turkish Embassy Beat-Down
Foreign agents attacked American citizens on the streets of DC. Can Americans bring them to justice?
WRITTEN BY HARRY JAFFE | PUBLISHED ON MAY 2, 2018

Lucy Usoyan sensed danger. It was the afternoon of May 16, 2017, and Usoyan was among the Kurdish protesters outside the residence of Turkey’s ambassador to the United States. They were there to demonstrate against Turkey’s leader, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who was in town for his first meeting with President Donald Trump in the US.

“Kurdish bitch!” Usoyan heard as the demonstrators crossed Massachusetts Avenue. In front of the residence, a large group of men had gathered. “Die, Kurds!” they shouted. “Kill the terrorists!”

Usoyan, 35, is an Alexandria resident and US citizen. But she’s ethnically Kurdish, which makes her a blood enemy in the eyes of some Turkish ultranationalists. Watching the men gathered outside the ambassador’s Sheridan Circle home, she noticed that the police on the scene seemed outnumbered.

This doesn’t seem right to me, she recalls thinking. Look how many of them there are. This worries me.

Across Turkey, Erdogan’s regime had squelched dissent by beating up demonstrators and jailing dissidents. It also had a reputation for undiplomatic behavior abroad. Turkish guards had broken the nose of an Ecuadorian lawmaker and scuffled with employees and protesters at the Brookings Institution in 2016. But this was the capital of American democracy, where citizens like Lucy Usoyan believe they have the right to speak without fear.

Usoyan turned to Murat Yasa, one of the leaders of the Kurdish protest. Yasa, 61, a naturalized US citizen who runs a Northern Virginia carpet-and-flooring company, is a veteran protester who had brought his own bullhorn to the rally. He tried to remain calm, but the tension escalated. A few men began pushing past police who were trying to keep the two groups apart. A water bottle flew and slammed into Usoyan’s leg. She looked back at the other Kurds in the circle, who included a mother with her child in a stroller. Seconds later, Usoyan was thrown to the ground. There was no time to escape.

The next thing she knew, Usyoan woke up on the ground and told a DC police officer, “I cannot feel my legs.”

It had lasted no more than five minutes. By the end, nine protesters were hospitalized. A police officer and a Secret Service agent sustained injuries. The protesters suffered busted lips, concussions, and, in Lucy Usoyan’s case, a traumatic brain injury from which she has yet to recover.

Caught on video, the melee shocked onlookers and sparked outrage from city officials, commentators, and members of Congress. Coming just a few months into Trump’s presidency, the brawl had potent symbolism: An autocratic foreign leader—of a NATO ally, no less—had allowed his bodyguards to assault US citizens on the streets of the nation’s capital, and no one seemed accountable. At a news conference on June 14, DC police chief Peter Newsham said that “rarely have I seen in my 28 years of policing the type of thing I saw in Sheridan Circle.” The House of Representatives approved a resolution, 397–0, calling “for perpetrators to be brought to justice and measures to be taken to prevent similar incidents in the future.”

One year later, that hasn’t really happened. Though last July federal prosecutors charged 15 members of Erdogan’s security detail for allegedly participating in the brawl, the Turkish government refused to arrest them and mocked the charges. Prosecutors have dropped charges against 11 of the men. Only two people charged in the assaults—the ones who happened to be without a ticket out of the country—have been arrested.

For DC’s police, punishing the perpetrators of the Sheridan Circle confrontation would ordinarily have been straightforward. But because it’s tricky to prosecute representatives of foreign governments for actions committed on American soil, justice has proved elusive. Which explains why the case has given rise to a new civil action led by an unlikely band of Washington-area activists and attorneys, determined that Turkey pay for the brutality visited on unarmed Americans in the heart of DC.

The violence on Sheridan circle didn’t happen in a vacuum. Well before arriving at the ambassador’s residence that afternoon, Erdogan had raised with President Trump the case of a dissident Turkish cleric whom Turkey wants extradited back home from Pennsylvania. The men also sparred over US support for Kurdish-led militia in Syria, whom Erdogan considers terrorists. “Erdogan got nothing he was expecting from Trump,” says Steven Cook, a Middle East expert at the Council on Foreign Relations. “He left very frustrated.”

The day had also been marked by boisterous protests, both for and against the controversial Turkish leader. While Erdogan met with Trump, some of his supporters staged a rally in Lafayette Square. A sizable security presence—including Secret Service, Park Police, DC cops, and SWAT teams—prevented the group from getting near a rival gathering of Erdogan’s opponents, including Lucy Usoyan.

A native of Armenia, Usoyan is an Ezidi, a member of a tiny Kurdish sect with roots in ancient Mesopotamia. She became a US citizen in 2015, settling in DC and founding a nonprofit to help Ezidis displaced by fighting in northern Syria. Outside the White House, she voiced her anger at Erdogan’s government for its brutality toward Kurds. Among other things, she blamed Erdogan for encouraging a war in nearby Azerbaijan, where the fighting had caused her cousin’s beheading. “Erdogan is the terrorist!” she shouted.

The dueling protests in Lafayette Square ended without major incident, like so many rallies in a city that regularly hosts such confrontations. Usoyan considered meeting friends for lunch but decided to join the other Kurds and protest Erdogan’s visit to the Turkish ambassador’s residence at Sheridan Circle, a ten-minute walk away.

By now, the numbers had changed. There were fewer protesters than had been in Lafayette Square—perhaps 15—and far fewer police. One of the protesters was Heewa Arya, who had brought his seven-year-old daughter, Cheyenne. He and his wife are Kurdish refugees, originally from Iran. Every year, his wife’s family marks the anniversary of their US citizenship by calling them and saying, “Welcome to freedom.” Another parent in Sheridan Circle was Ruken Isik, a Kurdish-American who had come with her four-year-old son.

The confrontations were growing violent. A few Turkish supporters of Erdogan rushed across the street and confronted the protesters. One of Erdogan’s supporters was struck in the head, causing blood to stream down his face. Police officers intervened as people on both sides kicked and threw punches. Turkey’s ambassador to the US, Serdar Kilic, came out and demanded that the few DC police on hand remove the protesters. “I am the ambassador,” he said, according to video footage and victim-impact statements. “You cannot touch us.”

A District police officer said the demonstrators had “a right to talk.”

A Turkish security officer shot back: “You need to take them—if you don’t, I will.”

Minutes later, Erdogan’s black Merce*des rounded the circle and pulled up the half-moon driveway to the ambassador’s residence. That put him about 100 yards from the protesters, next to a stone portico, safely protected by a phalanx of armed guards. The limousine door opened, but the president didn’t get out. Across the street, Murat Yasa bellowed into his megaphone: “Baby killer Erdogan!”

The head of Erdogan’s security guards leaned down toward the open door and spoke with the president. The guard stood up and motioned to two other agents who turned to face him. Using hand signals and an earpiece, he gave an order. One nodded and disappeared down the driveway toward a gathering of Turkish security agents.

Suddenly, men in black suits rushed across the street and slammed into the protesters. Supporters of Erdogan in plainclothes, many wearing military boots, joined the attack, punching and kicking the demonstrators. Lucy Usoyan and Murat Yasa were thrown to the ground.

Under US law and diplomatic practice, federal and local law-enforcement agencies are supposed to protect foreign diplomats and visiting heads of state. The Secret Service and State Department take the lead in preparing for diplomatic events, with DC’s Metropolitan Police Department providing backup.

As the violence unfolded, police on the scene unsuccessfully tried to restrain two Erdogan supporters who weren’t part of his official detail: Sinan Narin, a limo driver from McLean, and Eyup Yildirim, a burly contractor who had come from New Jersey to support the president. The men rushed past the police and started kicking Usoyan. She covered her face. Her last thought was a question: Why are they kicking me? Then she blacked out.

Yasa tried to use his body to cover Usoyan, but Yildirim pushed him back to the ground. He tried to get up, but his legs buckled. On the ground again, he tasted blood from his busted lip. He kept feeling the kicks to his forehead.This is it, he thought. They’re going to kill you. You won’t see your wife and children again.

Heewa Arya had taken his daughter, Cheyenne, from his shoulders and placed her on the ground before he was attacked. She ran past a fallen stroller to friends who had made their way to safety across the street, opposite the melee.

He felt kicks on his head and a voice saying, “Die, f—ing Kurd.”

President Erdogan, his face a mask, calmly emerged from his Mercedes, gave the confrontation a glance, turned, and walked into the residence.

The police arrested and released two men that afternoon. But in the days that followed, investigators began to assemble a bigger picture. Surveillance cameras had recorded the shouting, cursing, pushing, and kicking. A videographer from Voice of America had recorded the running brawls from many angles. Working with that footage and evidence pulled from mobile-phone videos, police matched images of those involved with entry-visa and passport photos of members of Erdogan’s entourage.

Ten days after the attacks, the New York Times published an extensive multimedia narrative of the attacks. Producers zeroed in on individual Turkish agents, some wearing gun holsters and security pins, highlighted them kicking and punching demonstrators, ran their quotes, and identified them by name.

On June 14, DC police chief Newsham issued arrest warrants for a dozen Turkish security guards and vowed they’d be arrested if they returned to the US. But the two men who had stomped Usoyan and Yasa were American citizens and in range. Police arrested Yildirim in New Jersey and took Narin into custody in Northern Virginia.

On July 17, building on the police department’s arrest warrants, a federal grand jury returned indictments against 19 men on 21 charges, including aggravated assault and hate crimes. Most were Turkish security agents who had returned to Ankara and were beyond reach. The Turkish government continued to call the protesters “supporters of terror” and claimed that Erdogan’s security had entered the fracas only because “police did not heed to Turkish demands to intervene.”

Erdogan mocked the US legal action.

“If my bodyguards cannot protect me, then why am I bringing them with me to the US?” he said at a press conference in Ankara in June. In fact, he was using the police department’s investigation to whip up enthusiasm back home, deflecting attention from his failure to exact concessions from Trump by insisting that he faced imminent danger on the streets of DC.

“That’s what took over the news cycle in Turkey,” Steven Cook says. “The [alleged] incompetence by US police in failing to protect Erdogan played well for him.”

Erdogan’s problems weren’t over, however. With the US government unable or unwilling to obtain justice for the Sheridan Circle victims, a group of DC lawyers set out to do so themselves.

Douglas Bregman had little inkling of the riot, let alone what had provoked it. But what he saw on the news that night horrified him: “This guy gets to come to our country, speak to the President at the White House, then send his thugs to bloody up American citizens just for speaking out?”

Bregman, 68, runs a civil-practice law firm in Bethesda. Originally from suburban Philadelphia, he got a law degree from Georgetown University in the 1970s and put down roots. He lectures there and at Columbia University law school. Having participated in protests during the 1960s, he sees a need to defend freedom of speech from threats “like abuse of power,” he says.

Under international law, foreign diplomats, heads of state, and even some security guards enjoy immunity from arrest and criminal prosecution in other countries. Bregman phoned one of his associates, Andreas Akaras, a litigator at Bregman, Berbert, Schwartz and Gilday. “Did you see what happened today at Sheridan Circle?” he asked.

“I’m watching it right now,” Akaras said. “Unbelievable.”

Akaras had joined Bregman’s firm after seven years as an aide to Maryland congressman John Sarbanes. He’d worked on a range of issues related to southeastern Europe and the Mediterranean and developed contacts in Turkey, Greece, Cyprus, and Israel. Bregman asked him to investigate whether any legal restitution was available to the victims.

“Let me see what’s going on up on the Hill and around town,” Akaras said.

In the aftermath of the attack, Lucy Usoyan had been taken to GW Hospital. She went home but collapsed the next morning. A CT scan revealed she’d suffered traumatic brain injury. For the next six weeks, she could barely leave her darkened room. Bright lights pierced her head and caused intense headaches. Same with loud noises. She struggled to take care of herself.

On May 25, Usoyan gathered herself together to testify before a House Foreign Affairs subcommittee. She sat at the witness table and described being kicked in the head. “When I opened my eyes, I think it was over,” she said. “I tried to get up, but my legs were very heavy. I don’t know why.”

Murat Yasa testified by Usoyan’s side. On the night of the brawl, he had driven himself home after getting stitches to close lacerations on his forehead. The next morning, his wife and children saw their father on CNN sitting in Sheridan Circle with a bloody face. He gathered the kids in a hug at the breakfast table and urged them to go to school. They couldn’t.

“How could a brutal attack such as this happen on American soil?” he asked. “How can I explain to my children that the country we love, and the country we call home, is the place where I was stripped of my rights?”

At the hearing, Usoyan offered up her greatest concern. She said she would confront Erdogan again, “but I am just afraid that if we let this go unnoticed or unfollowed, they will just kill us next time.”

After the hearing, Andreas Akaras met with Usoyan. They discussed grounds to bring a civil suit against Turkey under certain provisions of the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act; he told her she might well have a case. “I am interested,” Usoyan answered. “I am certainly willing to discuss it.”

Akaras phoned Bregman. “Let’s do this thing,” he said.

Days after meeting Lucy Usoyan, Doug Bregman placed a call to a fellow longtime DC attorney named Steve Perles. To Bregman, the limited reach of the US criminal-justice system suggested the need for a different approach.

“I have this case that will rely on the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act,” Bregman said. “You’re the guy who can do it.”

Lanky and press-averse, Perles had made his name forcing countries like Germany to pay historic war reparations and Iran and Libya to pay damages for terrorist acts, such as downing airplanes. “I do a lot of negotiations with really bad people,” he says in his office on Connecticut Avenue. “They want to know that the details are not going to show up on the front page of the New York Times.”

During the 1979 Iran hostage crisis, Perles served as an aide to Alaska Republican senator Ted Stevens, who received briefings on negotiations to free the hostages, including the Algiers Accords. A little-known aspect of the deal prohibited hostages from suing Iran for damages.

That irked Perles. Since then, he has tried to figure out ways for American citizens to legally sue foreign governments for sponsoring terrorism—or, as in the Sheridan Circle incident, for hurting US citizens and using immunity as a shield.

Passed in 1976, the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act, or FSIA, protects foreign governments from being sued in US courts, unless the court finds that the case fits into one of seven exceptions from the law. Perles specializes in exploiting those exceptions. In 1996, he lobbied the Senate to approve a bill denying immunity to state sponsors of terrorism. After the bill passed, Perles represented the family of Alisa Flatow, an American student who had died in a bus bombing in Jerusalem, and won a $248-million judgment from Iran. He has collected some of the funds and is still seeking the rest.

A decade later, Perles helped wring $1.5 billion from Libya in damages for a dozen acts of terrorism committed in the mid-1980s. Overall, he says he has moved more than $3 billion from designated state sponsors of terrorism to American victims.

Working with Bregman and Akaras, Perles is preparing to file suit for hundreds of millions in damages from the Republic of Turkey. “Any foreign head of state who unleashes his security force against US citizens exercising their lawful rights on US soil has no protection under FSIA,” Perles says.

Other lawyers agree. A team headed by Agnieszka Fryszman of Cohen Milstein filed a victim-impact statement representing 13 victims of the Sheridan Circle attack, including Murat Yasa and Heewa Arya. The legal team has added Michael Tigar, who successfully sued the government of Chile for assassinating Orlando Letelier with a car bomb at Sheridan Circle in 1976. (His later cases include defending Terry Nichols in the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing trial.)

Tigar says students at American University law school are putting together the case against Turkey. He’s confident in its strength. “It took 16 years, but we got to get $4 million from Chile,” he says.

Bregman, on the other hand, acknowledges that the legal battle has its challenges: “Somebody needs to be punished. We are willing to put in the time and resources to push back against a fascist government so our clients are vindicated. It is well worth the effort.”

The only two men arrested for their role in the attacks, Sinan Narin and Eyup Yildirim, took pleas in exchange for light sentences and no fines. Still behind bars in DC Jail, they were visited by the Turkish foreign minister, who showed up in September.

“While visiting our brothers Sinan and Eyup Yildirim who continue to be tried in Washington,” the minister tweeted, “we transferred to them our nation’s love and greetings.” In Turkey, the two were heroes, if not martyrs.

Lucy Usoyan and Murat Yasa tried to make every hearing at DC Superior Court so they could lay eyes on their attackers. “I couldn’t believe how pleased they seemed to be with themselves,” Yasa says.

Mark Schamel, Yildirim’s defense attorney, describes him as a gentle, hard-working contractor who felt threatened and kicked one person, one time. However, video clearly shows Yildirim rushing past police to get at protesters and repeatedly stomping on and kicking Lucy Usoyan. The men eventually cut deals with prosecutors, pleading guilty to one count of assault in exchange for dropping the hate-crime charges. They agreed to serve one year and pay no fines.

Last November, federal prosecutors dropped charges, without explanation, against four of Erdogan’s security detail. In February, the Justice Department dismissed charges against seven more agents, leaving four still to face charges. The announcement coincided with a meeting in Ankara between Erdogan and then–Secretary of State Rex Tillerson.

Neither the Justice Department nor the State Department will comment on why the charges were dropped. Erdogan has claimed that Trump actually called to say he “was sorry” for the indictment of the Turkish president’s security agents, which the White House denies.

“Still,” says Usoyan, “Erdogan gets to go around Turkey telling everyone President Trump called to apologize about the arrests. He should apologize for telling his thugs to kick me in the head.”

On April 5, both Usoyan and Yasa testified at the sentencing for Yildirim and Narin, trying to persuade Judge Marisa Demeo to reject the plea and order a stiffer sentence. The judge accepted the year and day in jail time for the defendants but characterized the violence as “horrific” and “so shocking and opposite our democratic values.”

“That’s hardly justice for what they did to us,” Usoyan says. “It’s a tap on the wrist.”

Regardless of the legal outcome, their struggle continues.

“Next time Erdogan shows up,” Yasa says, “I will be there. Count on it.”

Lucy Usoyan vows to be by his side.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2018/05/02/turkish-embassy-riot-recep-tayyip-erdogan-washington-lawsuit/

tailfins

12-12-2018, 08:33 PM

Foreign agents attacked American citizens on the streets of DC. Can Americans bring them to justice?

I wonder what would have happened if those American citizens were armed and exercised their legal right to self defense. For Farah's benefit I will explain that the USA is an individualist society. What that means in this case is that actions are responded to with no regard to what group the other person belongs to. Whether it's Billy Bob the redneck or Ahmed from Pakistan, if someone attacks me and a reasonable person would consider it a life threatening act, killing that person is absolutely legal.

Drummond

12-12-2018, 08:42 PM

I wonder what would have happened if those American citizens were armed and exercised their legal right to self defense. For Farah's benefit I will explain that the USA is an individualist society. What that means in this case is that actions are responded to with no regard to what group the other person belongs to. Whether it's Billy Bob the redneck or Ahmed from Pakistan, if someone attacks me and a reasonable person would consider it a life threatening act, killing that person is absolutely legal.

I only wish this was seen in the same way in my own country, Tailfins. But political correctness imperatives ... coming from essentially the same source as those which bend over backwards to defer to Muslims over here ... argue otherwise.

This diverts somewhat from the point of the thread, I think, so I won't expand on this. Still ... the concept of justice for the individual, individualistically applied, SEEN to be just, is a valuable one.

It comes from the worth of the individual, something which America has particular respect for.

Gunny

12-12-2018, 09:16 PM

I only wish this was seen in the same way in my own country, Tailfins. But political correctness imperatives ... coming from essentially the same source as those which bend over backwards to defer to Muslims over here ... argue otherwise.

This diverts somewhat from the point of the thread, I think, so I won't expand on this. Still ... the concept of justice for the individual, individualistically applied, SEEN to be just, is a valuable one.

It comes from the worth of the individual, something which America has particular respect for.Turks like to think they are individuals but they come up woefully short. They are first and foremost Turks. Whatever Turkey tells them is good or bad, is good or bad. Fair enough to a point. They are however more arrogant than feudal Japanese about it. There is no reasoning with them. Any intelligence they may possess is lost to pigheadedness and arrogance.

This individual is NOT out of the ordinary. She is a typical Turk and this is how they act. The only thing they respect is brute force. They see these attempts at peace by the US as weakness rather than a strength. No amount of talk is going to change that.

That is why I have stated in the past that when we (the Allies) dismantled the Ottoman Empire after WWI, we should have just gone on then and whipped Turkey's ass. They honestly believe they are some kind of force to be reckoned with. Like Saddam Hussein thought. Fact is, nobody wanted to continue a war over a 3rd world shithole.

Black Diamond

12-12-2018, 09:38 PM

11840

Farah

12-13-2018, 02:45 AM

There's your answer, Farah. ISIS gets its funding from thieving it.

.

This is not true. For example when they blockade a city where a mostly Kurdish population lives (Ayn Al-Arab), ISIS stayed around the city for months and no countries were involving. Because this was the only way for US and other Western countries to justify supporting terror groups which they falsely name as "Kurds". So they create a fake "ISIS beater" group and this group suddenly started to invade Syria under the pretext of figthing ISIS without figthing something.

Another example is that Western countries and Russia always claimed that ISIS is selling oil. So If they re selling oil and if you want them to prevent to do so, you can simply watch around the oil deposits in ISIS "controlled" areas and destroy anything approches. Was it made ? Nope because ISIS were selling oil to Assad regime and Assad regime was selling it to Western countries with tanker ships through to Mediterranean Sea.

We can find many other examples that uncover this theatre.

Farah

12-13-2018, 02:57 AM

Your comment is ridiculous, and has no bearing on the issue.

You are in fact QUITE childish and naive. By YOUR standard -- remember YOUR words -- the US would be justified in loading up and kicking the shit out of every unpeaceful nation in the World and it would be our "business to ensure justice and peace in the World". That would include most Middle Eastern nations and ESPECIALLY Turkey.

What you are saying might makes right in which case you and your country are screwed.

Lastly I would like to point out that you have a bigger problem at the moment. Note the drooling idiot who hates American women that is just gushing all over you. You might as well burst his bubble and clue Don Juan into the fact that Turks hate Americans just because we breathe.

So, farah, you are at least worth some comedic relief. I've never seen tailfins be nice to a female before :laugh: Y'all gotta get a load of this: @Abbey (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=11) @Kathianne (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=8) :laugh2:

Yes I am complately agree with that, so I would wish US or any other Western countries to be protectors of justice but sadly its just the opposite. US is called as a terrorist country by many people in the World. This "terrorist" image mostly caused by their policies and relationships with other countries. As you are doing today in Syria, instead of trying to ensure peace and justice within people, trying to divide it into pieces, oppressing people that opposes this division, oppressing anyone that opposes to this injustice. Turkiye insistently offers to provide a safe zone for this people, give them their rights to live in peace with justice. As I said in my pre post, if you are honest with that lets start to divide US into pieces for many different groups living there. You wont do that, because you are not honest with your claims.

Farah

12-13-2018, 03:06 AM

By the way, did you hear about how some of your Turkish thugs beat up Kurdish protesters here in the USA? Yes, it was quite an international incident.

So people throwing rocks, bottles and some other things to Turkish officials are "protestor" but guards counter attacks to stop them is "thugs" ??? I think I wont take your posts serious from now on.

This is a perfect example for US kind of understanding of justice. This is what you understand from the word "justice". So anything done against something you dont like can be justified. Another weird part this words are coming from someone who defends the murder of Baltimore "protestors" saying "Thats excellent". This is why people around the World hates you.

The 17. post here >>> http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?64945-The-Criminal-West/page2

You also closed my topic not to face with facts, you dont like to face with crimes you commit, you just want to attack others and you call yourself the "justice provider" of the World. This is ridicilous.

Another ridicilous part that which you call as "protestors" are terrorists, openly supporting a terror organization. To make a comparision, its nothing different than US president coming to Turkiye and meets with Turkish president and ISIS terrorists are "protesting" US president out of the embassy, throwing some materials at him, insulting at thim.

Farah

12-13-2018, 03:17 AM

Farah

12-13-2018, 06:06 AM

Drummond

12-13-2018, 09:34 AM

US backed terror groups who invade towns under the pretext of "figthing" ISIS, forcing local people to migrate and brings their supporters in to complately change the demographics to claim ownership in these regions.

Source: https://www.dailysabah.com/war-on-terror/2017/05/09/pyd-continues-to-force-out-arabs-turkmens-oppress-critical-kurdish-voices

Sometimes I just wonder if you're joking with us. If 'yes', you're not doing a good job. Jokes don't have to be insults !

'UNDER THE PRETEXT' of fighting ISIS. You've GOT to be kidding. Farah, I'll simply say that if you doubt that ISIS and the US are sworn enemies of each other, you must be living in some kind of parallel reality to the rest of us. Or maybe, your local propagandists have done one hell of a job of brainwashing you.

Tell me of the beheadings of Americans committed by ISIS terrorists, for example. Are those reports just lies ?

Farah. Check out the biases of those who are behind the website you posted us a link to. Go on, do it. Or .. DON'T, because you might find the result to be too informative ....

Farah

12-13-2018, 09:55 AM

Sometimes I just wonder if you're joking with us. If 'yes', you're not doing a good job. Jokes don't have to be insults !

You have pretty straight mindset and has no capability of deep think. So you are the most loved person for these kind of governments, so people that unconditional and fanatically believes what they are told by their govt.

'UNDER THE PRETEXT' of fighting ISIS. You've GOT to be kidding. Farah, I'll simply say that if you doubt that ISIS and the US are sworn enemies of each other, you must be living in some kind of parallel reality to the rest of us. Or maybe, your local propagandists have done one hell of a job of brainwashing you. Tell me of the beheadings of Americans committed by ISIS terrorists, for example. Are those reports just lies ?

Its a common practice within some countries to create victims to justify actions. US is one of the most famous country about that. Creating terror organizations to be able to invade somewheres is a good example for that. US govt can sacrifice even thousands (if not more) of US people to justify its actions by saying "We have sacrificed a few thousands but we have saved millions."

Farah. Check out the biases of those who are behind the website you posted us a link to. Go on, do it. Or .. DON'T, because you might find the result to be too informative ....

Does not matter the which source the news are from as long as you are not capable of thinking deep. So we cant ignore a news just because of its from a Russian source or Iranian source or Turkish source or US source. We just have to question it without believing fanatically and unconditional.

Drummond

12-13-2018, 10:08 AM

You have pretty straight mindset and has no capability of deep think. So you are the most loved person for these kind of governments, so people that unconditional and fanatically believes what they are told by their govt.

Its a common practice within some countries to create victims to justify actions. US is one of the most famous country about that. Creating terror organizations to be able to invade somewheres is a good example for that. US govt can sacrifice even thousands (if not more) of US people to justify its actions by saying "We have sacrificed a few thousands but we have saved millions."

Does not matter the which source the news are from as long as you are not capable of thinking deep. So we cant ignore a news just because of its from a Russian source or Iranian source or Turkish source or US source. We just have to question it without believing fanatically and unconditional.

OK .. this is getting ridiculous.

Farah, let's cut to the chase. You're seriously suggesting or even hinting, are you, that the US had ANY hand AT ALL in creating ISIS, & / or, they are allied in some way ??

YES or NO ?

If 'yes', this is as delusional as it gets.

I'm totally sure that the US, as would any responsible Western power, would dearly love to see ISIS and their ilk wiped from the face of this Earth. Any suggestion, hint (whatever) from you that this isn't true, is just insulting.

So I'm putting you on the spot.

I want proof from you that the US either created, or has assisted in any real and deliberate way, ISIS in any of its actions or its objectives, EVER.

ISIS and the US are sworn enemies of each other. If you seriously entertain any idea contrary to that, and you want to convince anybody here of it, then you'll have to prove ISIS and US complicity.

So go to it.

PROVE YOUR CASE.

Farah

12-13-2018, 10:36 AM

OK .. this is getting ridiculous.

Farah, let's cut to the chase. You're seriously suggesting or even hinting, are you, that the US had ANY hand AT ALL in creating ISIS, & / or, they are allied in some way ??

YES or NO ?

If 'yes', this is as delusional as it gets.

I'm totally sure that the US, as would any responsible Western power, would dearly love to see ISIS and their ilk wiped from the face of this Earth. Any suggestion, hint (whatever) from you that this isn't true, is just insulting.

So I'm putting you on the spot.

I want proof from you that the US either created, or has assisted in any real and deliberate way, ISIS in any of its actions or its objectives, EVER.

ISIS and the US are sworn enemies of each other. If you seriously entertain any idea contrary to that, and you want to convince anybody here of it, then you'll have to prove ISIS and US complicity.

So go to it.

PROVE YOUR CASE.

There are many sings that support the idea. I gave a nice example in previos posts. The armies in the Syria are pretty advanced and they can easily determine and hit any enemy forces easily, they can hit even a single person walking on the street. While this is the case, ISIS wander in Syria and in Iraq with long vehicle convoys for years. These countries need to make an explanation of that. For example Turkish army has improved technologically so much in current govt era and today even a single terrorists cannot take a step on open land, many of them are hiding in caves for most of the their time and the ones who decides to go out are immediately get caught and neutralized by airforces and its not a flat desert like Syria, its fully mountainous area which is almost same size with entire Syria.

If you are not asking even such a simple question, you cant talk about being "objective" and "fair".

Drummond

12-13-2018, 11:51 AM

There are many sings that support the idea. I gave a nice example in previos posts. The armies in the Syria are pretty advanced and they can easily determine and hit any enemy forces easily, they can hit even a single person walking on the street. While this is the case, ISIS wander in Syria and in Iraq with long vehicle convoys for years. These countries need to make an explanation of that. For example Turkish army has improved technologically so much in current govt era and today even a single terrorists cannot take a step on open land, many of them are hiding in caves for most of the their time and the ones who decides to go out are immediately get caught and neutralized by airforces and its not a flat desert like Syria, its fully mountainous area which is almost same size with entire Syria.

If you are not asking even such a simple question, you cant talk about being "objective" and "fair".

I wanted proof of what it is you assert. I asked you for it. All you've come back with is, essentially, 'What can we infer, from ....'.

No, Farah. When you make serious allegations, insulting ones at that (!) you should be prepared to back them up with more than just 'ifs, buts and maybes', and 'we can perhaps infer this, from that'.

You want to assert something as truth ... and have it believed as truth. Very well. The onus is then on you to SHOW us that it IS the truth.

So, do so, Farah. This is now my second challenge to you. Meet it, if you can.

If you can't, then have the good grace to admit it. In that way, your admitted failure can be greeted, I suggest, with some measure of respect.

Farah

12-13-2018, 12:34 PM

I wanted proof of what it is you assert. I asked you for it. All you've come back with is, essentially, 'What can we infer, from ....'.

No, Farah. When you make serious allegations, insulting ones at that (!) you should be prepared to back them up with more than just 'ifs, buts and maybes', and 'we can perhaps infer this, from that'.

You want to assert something as truth ... and have it believed as truth. Very well. The onus is then on you to SHOW us that it IS the truth.

So, do so, Farah. This is now my second challenge to you. Meet it, if you can.

If you can't, then have the good grace to admit it. In that way, your admitted failure can be greeted, I suggest, with some measure of respect.

I gave you a perfect evidence but you choose to ignore it, I dont think we have anything more to talk to each other. This is not a discussion, you are just trolling around.

Farah

12-13-2018, 12:36 PM

Today US backed terror groups opened fire at Turkish positions with anti-tank weapons and murdered a Turkish soldier.

Drummond

12-13-2018, 01:23 PM

I gave you a perfect evidence but you choose to ignore it, I dont think we have anything more to talk to each other. This is not a discussion, you are just trolling around.

You are the one ducking my challenges, Farah. What you mistakenly call 'perfect evidence' (!) fell far short of proof that you were correct. I asked you for proof -- repeatedly. None has been forthcoming.

If you can't meet my challenges, why not admit it ? H'mm ?

Drummond

12-13-2018, 01:36 PM

Today US backed terror groups opened fire at Turkish positions with anti-tank weapons and murdered a Turkish soldier.

An interesting allegation. 'Murdered', you say ??

Any actual PROOF available of this 'murder', Farah, AND specifically, US culpability ? Show us a link to a report about this (preferably an objective one, rather than spoiled by bias).

A suggestion: if you post allegations, most especially inflammatory ones, you should be prepared to back them up, with ... SOMETHING. Proof, preferably.

... Yes ?

:link::link::link::link:

This emoji, Farah, is available to us for a reason .....

Just a bland allegation, especially one holding considerable potential for offense, won't do, I suggest .... you still haven't, after all, proved your allegation that terrorist groups, any at all, receive backing of any kind from America.

Bear that in mind if you do in fact respond.

Farah

12-13-2018, 01:58 PM

Farah

12-13-2018, 02:07 PM

Turkish Airforces passed over the terror units in Northern Syria and shot positions behind them.

What does this mean ?

Drummond

12-13-2018, 02:24 PM

After the northern Syria, Raqqa is waiting for Turkish Army to involve and kick US backed terror groups out of the city.

“850,000 civilians fled the region owing to the Raqqa operation launched under the pretext of fighting Daesh. None of those civilians returned home because the U.S. forces and the PKK have not permitted them to.”
“Actually, PKK terrorists want to flee Raqqa and Deir ez-Zor because they don’t feel safe in the region, but the U.S convinced them to stay,” al-Ghada continued.
The U.S.-led coalition's bombardment of Syria's Raqqa in 2017 had resulted in numerous civilian casualties.

The U.S does not allow civilians to return home, nor does it allow for the reconstruction of the schools, mosques, houses, bakeries and hospitals. If the Turkish army launches its military operation east of the Euphrates River, it will garner public support on a much larger scale than expected,”

https://bit.ly/2GohVPA

Thank you !! You've surprised me with this. But this, Farah, is a lot better than just posting an unsupported allegation.

Ok, then.

I will admit I've no good answer to give you in response to this. I suspect bias is rife in the report. However, I freely admit I can't carry that thought process further in terms of backing it up.

So, OK, Farah. I'll step back, and see if there are others here who can challenge you far better than I can. But in the meantime ... congratulations. This is much more like it ... make your case, but whenever you can, BACK IT UP. :clap::clap:

Drummond

12-13-2018, 02:28 PM

Turkish Airforces passed over the terror units in Northern Syria and shot positions behind them.

What does this mean ?

I suspect it means what the reader of it wants it to mean.

The statement lacks useful detail or qualifying definition, and of course, as it stands, any supporting material.

In terms of meaningful discussion, therefore, it doesn't mean very much.

See the posting above, Farah. You did commendably better than this, just moments ago.

Farah

12-13-2018, 02:34 PM

Farah

12-13-2018, 02:47 PM

Drummond

12-13-2018, 04:05 PM

After Turkiye declared an operation preparation against US backed terror groups in Northern Syria, today a ridicilous high-speed train crash happened in Turkiye and a Turkish scientists died who was blamed by illegal Israel state officials of causing the failures on Israel air defence systems.

Oh dear. You're just not getting it, are you ?

This, and the other post, both simply make allegations seemingly the product of bias. You need to back them up. What's here can be dismissed as biased, and nothing more (except inflammatory and insulting, of course !).

Where's your supporting material ?

:link::link::link::link::link::link::link:

Drummond

12-13-2018, 04:06 PM

US backed terror groups held another bomb attack in Afrin town of Syria and murdered 3 people. Today also a Turkish soldier was murdered in Afrin town by a missile attack done by US backed terror groups. Totally four bomb attacks and one missile attack done by US backed terror groups since yesterday after Turkiye's decleration.

Ditto what I said above.

Seriously; if you can't support posts like these with material - anything to support all you allege - why would anybody pay attention to them ?

[Perhaps they shouldn't, at all .. h'mmm ?]

:link::link::link::link::link::link::link:

Farah

12-13-2018, 05:36 PM

Drummond

12-13-2018, 06:50 PM

Turkish Army is planning to encircle terrorists units from the south and complately destroy all of them. Local sources claims that France soldiers are fleeing away. According to local sources, about %25 of enemy units are persons under 18 years old that forced to fight for US backed terror groups.

Again, with the 'US backed terror groups' ALLEGATION (yet again, no link, no supporting material in that post). French soldiers are 'fleeing away', eh ? Let me guess. They, too, are pro-terrorist ... yes ?? (ignore the many reports of terrorist attacks made against Paris, and elsewhere in France ... the latest just days ago, in Strasbourg, because they're the terrorists' FRIENDS !!).

This is becoming like some sort of highly predictable soap opera. Always, the brave, righteous, decent lovers of freedom and decency, saviours, all ... the TURKISH forces. Ranged against them: terrorists, with Big Bad Helpers ... the US, now France, and ... who else will get a mention ?

.. The UK ? Why ever not ? I'll feel slighted if you miss out my own homeland, Farah !! :rolleyes:

I think whoever writes your scripts is a fan of The Wizard of Oz ? Complete with the 'Wicked Witch of the West' ... ?

Farah. I established elsewhere (I'm sure you've seen the post by now ?) that Turkey has taken upon itself powers that allows its State machinery to not only clamp down on whatever Internet sites it doesn't like, but even to track the viewing habits of its citizens. This is NOT the way any Government wanting the free flow of outside information would conduct itself !!

So the question in my mind, is this: have you been duped (through an overly-controlling form of State machinery) into believing Western powers are fundamentally 'bad', and you're accordingly following through with a very jaundiced outlook that it's NOT your fault that you possess ... or ... are you a willing propagandist for your people, and against ours ?

You are too willing to post pieces which just assert something critical of the West, and too remiss in posting anything supporting you. There WAS one brief respite, where - after some prodding - you did post supportive material (albeit from your part of the world, very probably biased). Since then .. just allegations, nothing more.

So, are you just determined to peddle propaganda because you genuinely think you're right to .. or .. are you just an irredeemable hater of the West in general, and the US in particular ?

Do tell us what is REALLY driving your contributions. BE HONEST. TRY. And if you genuinely do hate the West, from what you think is a good basis for doing so ... do we have any hope of deprogramming you ?

IF, repeat, IF you're open to it, you could use this forum as a useful educational tool. Get to know how we REALLY are, in this part of the world. Shed your chronic misconceptions, and .. actually ... learn.

.... If, in fact, you're at all willing to .. (??)

Drummond

12-13-2018, 07:15 PM

This is not true. For example when they blockade a city where a mostly Kurdish population lives (Ayn Al-Arab), ISIS stayed around the city for months and no countries were involving. Because this was the only way for US and other Western countries to justify supporting terror groups which they falsely name as "Kurds". So they create a fake "ISIS beater" group and this group suddenly started to invade Syria under the pretext of figthing ISIS without figthing something.

Another example is that Western countries and Russia always claimed that ISIS is selling oil. So If they re selling oil and if you want them to prevent to do so, you can simply watch around the oil deposits in ISIS "controlled" areas and destroy anything approches. Was it made ? Nope because ISIS were selling oil to Assad regime and Assad regime was selling it to Western countries with tanker ships through to Mediterranean Sea.

We can find many other examples that uncover this theatre.

Just caught up with this.

You think that ISIS doesn't seize money, valuables, anything that would fund them, when they take over an area replete with it ? What stops them, Farah ... 'fundamental decency' ... ???

As for selling oil, if it came to it, I'm sure ISIS could, and of course DOES, cope. If not sold directly -- then through intermediaries ? To ASSAD, you say, then on to the West ?? Care to provide evidence of this clandestine sale (or series of them) to the West ??

I'm sorry to see that you dismiss truths not to your liking, Farah, (and just because they fail to be, and for no other good reason). What our reports tell us, is the truth. More ... we believe in fact and evidence-based presentations of truth, so that their accuracy is open to verification.

I'm also sorry to see that you're so wedded to your own propaganda, and are so intent upon forever bashing the West. You can learn from us, and drop your fundamental hostility -- IF -- you choose to.

Consider this a plea for you to do so. We are much better than how you insist upon painting us. WE, not YOU, have a full, free flow of information between borders, minus any manifestation of State-driven interference. You see, we in the West have no need for such agenda-driven restrictiveness.

jimnyc

12-14-2018, 12:52 PM

Islam = terrorism = all islamic countries and anywhere they happen to go. Cancer of the entire earth.

And to see some of the brainwashed talk, it's actually kinda comical. Almost like they are training to be the new "Baghdad Bob's".

No thanks, call us terrorists all you like, while cut off heads fall all around you, and death is all around you and war is surrounding the area. Life is fantastic from my point of view! And why? The lack of islam and muslims.

And why does it take foot and bring terrorism wherever the scummy muslims go? It's like the flies to dog shit....

Elessar

12-14-2018, 06:54 PM

Farah, you have become boring.

All of the same kind of posts - one way and not an inkling
of give and take.

Farah

12-16-2018, 05:16 AM

US backed terror groups attacks to civilians one more time. They get mad because of Turkiye's decleration of a new sweeping operation.

https://twitter.com/moetaz89/status/1074242702257111040

Farah

12-16-2018, 05:25 AM

Turkish security forces arriving the scene neutralizes another car full of bombs.

https://twitter.com/op_shield/status/1074248038321963009

jimnyc

12-16-2018, 09:59 AM

*Yawn*

More garbage from someone who can't think for themselves and can't even offer more than a link.

#Muslim_Garbage

Drummond

12-16-2018, 10:08 AM

*Yawn*

More garbage from someone who can't think for themselves and can't even offer more than a link.

#Muslim_Garbage

Quite. This is just posted for propaganda purposes. We're meant to infer Western culpability, but when it comes to so much as a shred of proof ... not a sign of it.

Farah's just a hater of the West. Possibly programmed into it: possibly, even, being directed by others to do what she's doing (how do we tell ?).

Her posts clearly have zero objective worth.

I'm adding a link to a post I've added here on another thread:

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?65051-Terrorism-in-Turkey&p=923630#post923630

jimnyc

12-16-2018, 10:11 AM

Quite. This is just posted for propaganda purposes. We're meant to infer Western culpability, but when it comes to so much as a shred of proof ... not a sign of it.

Did you see the post by High Plains, where he posted images of the folks she "follow" all over Twitter? If not, go check it out, she's basically a "CuckooNutter".

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?65051-Terrorism-in-Turkey&p=923576#post923576

tailfins

12-16-2018, 10:32 AM

US backed terror groups attacks to civilians one more time. They get mad because of Turkiye's decleration of a new sweeping operation.

https://twitter.com/moetaz89/status/1074242702257111040

Do you realize that if I substituted the word "Islam" every time you used the expression "US" or "West" that your posts would sound like almost everyone else's on this board? No one here is a government official. Unless the conversation is how to adapt to the hand you've been dealt, all this is just billiard room conversation. You belong here, you have more in common than you realize. You all like to argue and to disparage other people's countries. Carry on; it's fun to watch.

jimnyc

12-16-2018, 10:42 AM

Do you realize that if I substituted the word "Islam" every time you used the expression "US" or "West" that your posts would sound like almost everyone else's on this board? No one here is a government official. Unless the conversation is how to adapt to the hand you've been dealt, all this is just billiard room conversation. You belong here, you have more in common than you realize. You all like to argue and to disparage other people's countries. Carry on; it's fun to watch.

You have seen many here discuss actions of our government, who we like and don't, and who we want held responsible. You have seen us discuss everything from war to drones, and many condemn various things.

Now - ask yourself - while farah is condemning everything USA - if you think she is in anyway like us - point out all of the endless atrocious things coming from muslims/Islam - and see what she condemns and stands against - perhaps start with the idolization of a known pedophile.

tailfins

12-16-2018, 10:55 AM

You have seen many here discuss actions of our government, who we like and don't, and who we want held responsible. You have seen us discuss everything from war to drones, and many condemn various things.

Now - ask yourself - while farah is condemning everything USA - if you think she is in anyway like us - point out all of the endless atrocious things coming from muslims/Islam - and see what she condemns and stands against - perhaps start with the idolization of a known pedophile.

That would be a pedophile that's been dead for centuries and in their little dream world that's not the case. Lot's of things on this planet just plain suck. There's not a damn thing you or I can do about it except maybe try to better the lives of the few people we come in contact with in our lifetime.

When someone speaks of "defeating Islam" as a blanket statement, it means somehow bringing 1 BILLION people to heel. It ain't happenin'.

If you want to drive a living pedophile from office, lobby our government to get serious about driving Daniel Ortega from power in Nicaragua. I encourage you to read about his step daughter.

https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2018/june/daniel-ortegas-stepdaughter-he-abused-a-girl-now-a-country

Murillo suggests Nicaraguans are tired of government corruption and their president, who is an immoral man. In 1998, Zoilamerica went public with allegations that Ortega sexually abused her when she was nine-years old."Everyone was defending Daniel Ortega because of his power. But when I discovered that I was really a child of God, from Him I could start a new life and a new birth...at this moment I understand that God is the perfect father," she explained.
And now, 20-years later, she says Nicaraguans and the world may finally believe she was sexually abused by the Sandinista leader.
"The Nicaraguan people are starting a process of awakening, to knowing who is Daniel Ortega really and maybe now they can say, 'yes, Daniel Ortega is capable of making sexual abuse too because he's an abuser'—in the beginning abusing a girl, and now abusing a country."

Gunny

12-16-2018, 11:37 AM

That would be a pedophile that's been dead for centuries and in their little dream world that's not the case. Lot's of things on this planet just plain suck. There's not a damn thing you or I can do about it except maybe try to better the lives of the few people we come in contact with in our lifetime.

When someone speaks of "defeating Islam" as a blanket statement, it means somehow bringing 1 BILLION people to heel. It ain't happenin'.

If you want to drive a living pedophile from office, lobby our government to get serious about driving Daniel Ortega from power in Nicaragua. I encourage you to read about his step daughter.

https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2018/june/daniel-ortegas-stepdaughter-he-abused-a-girl-now-a-country

Speaking of pedophiles, just how old do you figure this Turk you got a woody over is? And I am well aware of the difference in "adult age" between the US and other countries so spare me the sermon. I got her pegged at about 16, give or take.

Put your pecker back in your pants, Casanova. And yes, you ARE that obvious. I stated before: her family will murder you and leave you in an alley. That's assuming you got as far as an honor killing. You are an American no matter how much you try to distance yourself from us. The idea of you is revolting to her because you breathe.

As you just posted: you aren't going to change anybody's mind. Damned sure not a Turk's. Try befriending a rattler. Their blood's warmer and they're more trustworthy.

jimnyc

12-16-2018, 11:39 AM

Speaking of pedophiles, just how old do you figure this Turk you got a woody over is? And I am well aware of the difference in "adult age" between the US and other countries so spare me the sermon. I got her pegged at about 16, give or take.

Add it all up, all the photos she pointed to, and I imagine you ain't far off!

https://i.imgur.com/gPoiEBT.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jkQFa9o.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/QV8onWK.jpg

Gunny

12-16-2018, 12:35 PM

Add it all up, all the photos she pointed to, and I imagine you ain't far off!

https://i.imgur.com/gPoiEBT.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jkQFa9o.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/QV8onWK.jpgThat is probably the worst cowboy hat EVER. She's pretty for a little girl. That hat is WAY out there.

Gunny

12-16-2018, 05:27 PM

When are you planning to leave Manbij ?

Let's cut back to the chase. Are there any Turks still breathing? If so, the job isn't finished.

Farah

12-16-2018, 05:38 PM

When are you planning to leave Manbij ?

Let's cut back to the chase. Are there any Turks still breathing? If so, the job isn't finished.

Why dont you come here and check it yourself ? Is it much easier to be hero behind computer ? Maybe you are a big belly man sitting fully naked in front of computer and eating chocolate donuts all day long and keeping all the windows open not to be poisoned by your own fart.

tailfins

12-16-2018, 05:54 PM

Farah I have a serious question for you: Have you ever taken any action that has resulted in someone being arrested for being disloyal to the state? My queasy gizzard tells me that you have.

Gunny

12-16-2018, 05:54 PM

Why dont you come here and check it yourself ? Is it much easier to be hero behind computer ? Maybe you are a big belly man sitting fully naked in front of computer and eating chocolate donuts all day long and keeping all the windows open not to be poisoned by your own fart.

:laugh:

WTF is a belly and a donut? Must be something you Turks choke yourselves on. I wouldn't know anything about either. I think I had a donut in 1980-what-the-fuck-ever. You just tried to piss up the wrong tree..

I've trained all my life to kill fuckwit losers like you. We piss you off? Good. Come to my fucking neighborhood and do something about it. Like bleed all over the curb. Bring your little bitch Turk boyfriends' asses with you cuz I already kicked all their daddies' asses when they were in high school and I was in grade school. Been there done that got the scars and left more than I received.

Got anything else?

High_Plains_Drifter

12-16-2018, 06:09 PM

Gunny

12-16-2018, 06:14 PM

I think you just described your husband. That's called projecting.True colors. This isn't some teenage chick. This is a paid Turk POS.

Black Diamond

12-16-2018, 07:30 PM

Is she even in turkey

Elessar

12-16-2018, 07:41 PM

Is she even in turkey

IP search can verify that.

Elessar

12-16-2018, 07:44 PM

Farah

12-17-2018, 10:02 AM

@Farah (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=3966) I have a serious question for you: Have you ever taken any action that has resulted in someone being arrested for being disloyal to the state? My queasy gizzard tells me that you have.

Its nice to know you are not serious most of the time. What makes you to create such a question in your mind ? This is weird. Yes I have reported some persons but I dont know whether or not they are charged. I also have reported some Western communities living in Turkiye but I know they are not charhed.

Farah

12-17-2018, 10:05 AM

:laugh:
Come to my fucking neighborhood and do something about it.

We will probably come in the next a few decades, to your neighborhood, when we are "invited" by innocent people living there.

jimnyc

12-17-2018, 10:33 AM

We will probably come in the next a few decades, to your neighborhood, when we are "invited" by innocent people living there.

Doubtful that the good folks here would knowingly invite scum and evil. Folks outside of your cult see it for what it is - and no matter your lame rants, still know what it is. And we still know that the USA is the greatest nation on earth - by FAR. And where you live is a 3rd world shithole, and that's simply not changing. This is the root of your anger and why you detest the USA so much. Deal with it though, as nothing will change. You will continue to live in a shithole surrounded by terrorism and war - and we will continue to live in a world that is completely unknown to you - a world with freedoms.

tailfins

12-17-2018, 10:52 AM

Its nice to know you are not serious most of the time. What makes you to create such a question in your mind ? This is weird. Yes I have reported some persons but I dont know whether or not they are charged. I also have reported some Western communities living in Turkiye but I know they are not charhed.

I have an interest in how people adapt when living under repression. I have made three trips to Cuba for that exact purpose. They have a thing called the Committee for the Defense of the Revolution. Your style and tone match that of a Cuban Communist. The CDR block captain gets extra rations and has a quota of irregularities to report. Being reported generally results in the person reported being arrested. There is no requirement that the denunciations be truthful. It would be in your best interest not to become a hollow person that profits from the misery of others. I'm not talking about countries here, I'm talking about individuals.

Before you belittle the other members of this board, and they are in NO WAY friends of mine, I can assure you that they don't act individually to the detriment of others. They talk their trash, but at they end of the day they aren't bothering anybody.

You sound very much like a supporter of this guy's memory.

https://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2016_47/1809646/161126-fidel-in-2007-0459_6b6065ccbfabb303c3ad813577748517.fit-2000w.jpg

High_Plains_Drifter

12-17-2018, 10:53 AM

We will probably come in the next a few decades, to your neighborhood, when we are "invited" by innocent people living there.
I guarantee you, you wouldn't be any safer here in our neighborhoods than we would there in your's. You're likely to get shot here, shortly after you get your ass kicked for running your America hating mouth.

jimnyc

12-17-2018, 10:57 AM

Huge Seinfeld fan here! Anyone remember the episode where Kramer found a half man half pig in the hospital? It lives! It's woman anyway.

Makes sense from what I read, and the beliefs and values - definitely half pig for sure.

tailfins

12-17-2018, 11:06 AM

I guarantee you, you wouldn't be any safer here in our neighborhoods than we would there in your's. You're likely to get shot here, shortly after you get your ass kicked for running your America hating mouth.

Get real. She would have four or more dudes buying her drinks, begging to be friendzoned. Most American men are trained to sit up and beg when a chick snaps her fingers. The sad thing is that such sitting up and begging doesn't net them any action.

Farah

12-17-2018, 11:14 AM

Doubtful that the good folks here would knowingly invite scum and evil. Folks outside of your cult see it for what it is - and no matter your lame rants, still know what it is. And we still know that the USA is the greatest nation on earth - by FAR. And where you live is a 3rd world shithole, and that's simply not changing. This is the root of your anger and why you detest the USA so much. Deal with it though, as nothing will change. You will continue to live in a shithole surrounded by terrorism and war - and we will continue to live in a world that is completely unknown to you - a world with freedoms.

Turkiye is developing soo fast in last 15 years with current govt, despite current govt spends most of its time to get rid of Western agents within state. Turkiye was ruled by Western backed parties since last 80 years after Ottoman and we had almost zero improvement. Many Turkish scientists were blocked to work and many of them were murdered and many of them migrated to abroad. Today still some blockades and even murders continues but its much lesser than the past. You can make a quick research about how many Turkish scientists lives in US those who owns some crazy projects. US still wants many Turkish scientists to work for them or wants to murder them, for example they hate the ones who can close US air defence systems at any moment. A while ago Turkish army was entered Sinjar region of Iraq with a huge military vehicle convoy in midnight and created a base there. US and Russia have learned all of these things in the morning of this night, a region which is fully controlled by US, US backed terrror groups and Russia.

You can also search for the speech of Erdogan about the invasion of Jarusalem by illegal Israel army, he said "You should not trust your weapons this much." You should take him seriously because every single word of him depends on some serious issues.

jimnyc

12-17-2018, 11:16 AM

tailfins

12-17-2018, 11:32 AM

Turkiye is developing soo fast in last 15 years with current govt, despite current govt spends most of its time to get rid of Western agents within state. Turkiye was ruled by Western backed parties since last 80 years after Ottoman and we had almost zero improvement. Many Turkish scientists were blocked to work and many of them were murdered and many of them migrated to abroad. Today still some blockades and even murders continues but its much lesser than the past. You can make a quick research about how many Turkish scientists lives in US those who owns some crazy projects. US still wants many Turkish scientists to work for them or wants to murder them, for example they hate the ones who can close US air defence systems at any moment. A while ago Turkish army was entered Sinjar region of Iraq with a huge military vehicle convoy in midnight and created a base there. US and Russia have learned all of these things in the morning of this night, a region which is fully controlled by US, US backed terrror groups and Russia.

You can also search for the speech of Erdogan about the invasion of Jarusalem by illegal Israel army, he said "You should not trust your weapons this much." You should take him seriously because every single word of him depends on some serious issues.

You have zero understanding how prosperity is achieved. You bring in talent from all sources: American, Indian, Latino, Turkish, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, heterosexual, homosexual, whatever. All the perspectives bring about possible solutions to problems others might not have considered. The same goes for customers. You find markets where ever you can. What does a scientist earn in Turkey? Here in the USA it's about USD 150,000 per year. What do you want to do, force them to stay in Turkey and pass up better opportunities? Most of us have little or no control over who runs our government. I don't disparage what country someone comes from. I DO disparage what they do as individuals.

I will even grant you that many Americans are not free. Large US corporations are no more free than Cuba nor Turkey. I understand that you are restricted on what you say. Perhaps you get some little payment of some kind for going online and criticizing the West. I would encourage you to at least be a nice person in the process.

Farah

12-17-2018, 12:05 PM

jimnyc

12-17-2018, 12:11 PM

Pigwoman posting more garbage, as if some crappy images are proof of a dang thing.

*oink oink*

High_Plains_Drifter

12-17-2018, 12:13 PM

Get real. She would have four or more dudes buying her drinks, begging to be friendzoned. Most American men are trained to sit up and beg when a chick snaps her fingers. The sad thing is that such sitting up and begging doesn't net them any action.
You're full of shit. I don't know what kind of a weak minded little girlie ass kissing suck up you are or what kind of pathetic hard up dorks you live around, but I guarantee you, what you do and say around these parts is a lot more important than if you have a nice ass.

Get a clue.

High_Plains_Drifter

12-17-2018, 12:16 PM

Turkiye is developing soo fast in last 15 years with current govt, despite current govt spends most of its time to get rid of Western agents within state. Turkiye was ruled by Western backed parties since last 80 years after Ottoman and we had almost zero improvement. Many Turkish scientists were blocked to work and many of them were murdered and many of them migrated to abroad. Today still some blockades and even murders continues but its much lesser than the past. You can make a quick research about how many Turkish scientists lives in US those who owns some crazy projects. US still wants many Turkish scientists to work for them or wants to murder them, for example they hate the ones who can close US air defence systems at any moment. A while ago Turkish army was entered Sinjar region of Iraq with a huge military vehicle convoy in midnight and created a base there. US and Russia have learned all of these things in the morning of this night, a region which is fully controlled by US, US backed terrror groups and Russia.

You can also search for the speech of Erdogan about the invasion of Jarusalem by illegal Israel army, he said "You should not trust your weapons this much." You should take him seriously because every single word of him depends on some serious issues.

Turkiye backed Ahrar Al Sharqia group announces that they have caught a US backed terrorists while preparing a car bomb.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuodmxjX4AAmGF-.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuodnkoWoAcv57g.jpg

If this is not true, US can make an official announcement to reject it, this is their terrorist.

I see you're posting more PROPAGANDA, Heir Farah Goebbels.

tailfins

12-17-2018, 12:30 PM

Turkiye backed Ahrar Al Sharqia group announces that they have caught a US backed terrorists while preparing a car bomb.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuodmxjX4AAmGF-.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuodnkoWoAcv57g.jpg

If this is not true, US can make an official announcement to reject it, this is their terrorist.

I know it's not true because the USA has an adversarial form of government. The Democrats will soon control the House; the GOP, the Senate and Presidency. If you can prove your allegations, I suggest you send your proof to https://www.facebook.com/NancyPelosi/ . She can then have MSNBC, CNN and the Washington Post broadcast it to the public. You have more friends in the USA than you know. Some people believe that only those who have inside government connections deserve any opportunity. The main difference between you and Nancy Pelosi is the she want's to limit opportunity to those with connections in the USA government while you want to limit opportunity to those with connections inside the Turkish government.

Farah

12-17-2018, 12:57 PM

Pigwoman posting more garbage, as if some crappy images are proof of a dang thing.

*oink oink*

These "crappy" images are official announces of Turkiye backed groups. US also threatened these groups two days ago if they would partipicate any attacks against US backed groups and these groups make an official announcement the same way in my previous post that they will partipicate the attack.

jimnyc

12-17-2018, 01:00 PM

These "crappy" images are official announces of Turkiye backed groups. US also threatened these groups two days ago if they would partipicate any attacks against US backed groups and these groups make an official announcement the same way in my previous post that they will partipicate the attack.

And you expect them to be fully impartial and deliver 100% the truth? AGAIN - how about using nationally or internationally known and good news media sources? Because you can't. You're a muslim and you are bound to lie, especially to your enemies.

And your defense of the most foul and reprehensible things of this world, makes you a pig. Pig.

Farah

12-17-2018, 01:35 PM

And you expect them to be fully impartial and deliver 100% the truth? AGAIN - how about using nationally or internationally known and good news media sources? Because you can't. You're a muslim and you are bound to lie, especially to your enemies.

And your defense of the most foul and reprehensible things of this world, makes you a pig. Pig.

I think what you mean by "nationally" and "international" known and "good" news media sources describes US state controlled media.

I love pigs they are cute but I cant eat them, lucky pigs. I also use pig nose effect on my photos sometimes.

jimnyc

12-17-2018, 01:37 PM

I think what you mean by "nationally" and "international" known and "good" news media sources describes US state controlled media.

I love pigs they are cute but I cant eat them, lucky pigs. I also use pig nose effect on my photos sometimes.

I'm confident that every country has reliable news agencies - that don't have radical right in their very name. We ALL know the difference between shit sources & reputable news agencies. Twitter is NOT one of them. A picture is NOT one of them. Links to stories/articles DIRECTLY from these reputable news agencies will be acceptable.

tailfins

12-17-2018, 01:46 PM

I think what you mean by "nationally" and "international" known and "good" news media sources describes US state controlled media.

I love pigs they are cute but I cant eat them, lucky pigs. I also use pig nose effect on my photos sometimes.

The US state controlled media is controlled by career government functionaries (thanks Rush) and not elected officials like the President. Many in the US state controlled media are sympathetic to your point of view. They love the US bureaucracy, but hate the typical American.

I have a riddle for Farah : Should you pronounce the letters "i" or "s" when you say the capital of the state of Kentucky? In other words, do you pronounce the capital of Kentucky as "Lou-ville", "Loui-ville" or "Lou-is-ville"?

Bonus question: Since you are so interested in the border with Mexico: If a plane crashes in the Rio Grande, where do you bury the survivors?

No answers to the riddles from US citizens, please!

Note to board: It is more fun to go over someone's head than to directly respond.

Farah

12-17-2018, 02:39 PM

Farah

12-17-2018, 02:50 PM

NightTrain

12-17-2018, 02:51 PM

Turkiye is developing soo fast in last 15 years with current govt, despite current govt spends most of its time to get rid of Western agents within state. Turkiye was ruled by Western backed parties since last 80 years after Ottoman and we had almost zero improvement. Many Turkish scientists were blocked to work and many of them were murdered and many of them migrated to abroad. Today still some blockades and even murders continues but its much lesser than the past. You can make a quick research about how many Turkish scientists lives in US those who owns some crazy projects. US still wants many Turkish scientists to work for them or wants to murder them, for example they hate the ones who can close US air defence systems at any moment. A while ago Turkish army was entered Sinjar region of Iraq with a huge military vehicle convoy in midnight and created a base there. US and Russia have learned all of these things in the morning of this night, a region which is fully controlled by US, US backed terrror groups and Russia.

You can also search for the speech of Erdogan about the invasion of Jarusalem by illegal Israel army, he said "You should not trust your weapons this much." You should take him seriously because every single word of him depends on some serious issues.

This is, without a doubt, one of the funniest (and absolutely most insane) posts ever created on this board!

When you grow up, Farah, I hope you'll return to read your words to see how completely deluded you were, here in December 2018. You'll cringe with embarrassment.

By the way, who photoshopped that cartoon cowboy hat on your picture?

Farah

12-17-2018, 03:13 PM

Here another example, these guys are coming countries like Iraq and Syria and many others to ensure "peace" and "justice". They are not different than a terror organization. They are the idol of ISIS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm4AwEA3PiM

jimnyc

12-17-2018, 03:15 PM

tailfins

12-17-2018, 03:33 PM

So now a Youtube video is what you offer as proof, from a group "The Young Turks"?

You are STILL a fucking idiot.

Ironic, isn't it. They appear to be a venue for Bernie Sanders / Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez supporters. Yet another example of US tolerance for free speech, even stupid speech. Just because 10% yell really loud, it doesn't make them a majority or even correct.

High_Plains_Drifter

12-17-2018, 04:39 PM

I also use pig nose effect on my photos sometimes.
Let's see one...

Drummond

12-17-2018, 07:35 PM

I think what you mean by "nationally" and "international" known and "good" news media sources describes US state controlled media.

I love pigs they are cute but I cant eat them, lucky pigs. I also use pig nose effect on my photos sometimes.

You can't eat pigs because you're a Muslim ? Yes ?

Is this (as if it isn't obvious) what lies behind your anti-Western bigotry, Farah ? Recall saying, elsewhere, do you, that religion wasn't relevant ? The truest of all contexts is that religion, YOUR religion, is central to all you 'think', and, indeed, why you hate. It's why you are loyal to the Turkish State (a Muslim majority society).

It's why you look at a few entries on Twitter, happily base your arguments on them, never caring to think that you need to be fair by choosing established, fully reputable sources, instead of them.

It's why you are enthusiastic about starting your 'Criminal West' thread, but thus far have absolutely refused to provide balance with a 'Criminal East' one.

As a Muslim, loyal to a Muslim State and Muslim leader, do you approve of:-

http://www.bpnews.net/50560/american-pastor-charged-with-terrorism-in-turkey

American pastor Andrew Brunson has been indicted in Turkey on charges of terrorism. The American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ) claims the charges amount to an admission "that Turkey considers sharing the Gospel an 'act of terrorism.'"

"The 62-page indictment, wholly lacking merit, provides no evidence regarding criminal action by Pastor Andrew, which comes as no surprise ...."

As a Muslim Turk, driven by her 'faith', do you think that all atrocities done in its name deserve no strong, publicly-expressed, censure ? Here are examples:

2013.02.16 (Quetta, Pakistan) - Women and children are amply represented in the carnage as a Lashkar-e-Jhangvi bomb rips through a Shiite marketplace, leaving eighty dead.
2013.02.16 (Mogadishu, Somalia) - al-Shabaab bombers kill one person at a restaurant.
2013.02.16 (Mosul, Iraq) - A suicide blast leaves three others dead.
2013.02.15 (Garowe, Somalia) - A cleric is murdered in his mosque by Islamist rivals.
2013.02.15 (Ghazni, Afghanistan) - Two civilians are killed by a Taliban bomb placed outside a mosque.
2013.02.14 (Hangu, Pakistan) - Two women are among eleven people torn to shreds by a Fedayeen suicide bomber.

Other Recent"Misunderstandings
of Islam"

2016.05.25 (Afghanistan)
Eleven lives are snuffed out by a suicide bomber on foot targeting a bus carrying court employees.

2016.05.23 (India)
Islamic miliatants gun down two cops at close range.
2016.05.23 (Syria)
Children are among one-hundred and sixty innocents incinerated or blown apart by ISIS suicide blasts.
2016.05.22 (Syria)
Six Assyrians are laid out by Allah-praising suicide bombers targeting a Christian restaurant.
2016.05.20 (Tanzania)
Islamic extremists hack three people at a rival mosque to death with machetes.
2016.05.19 (Afghanistan)
Five children and two women are among a family of eleven exterminated by Taliban bombers.

I get these from another thread on this forum (the one with more than 900 posts, it's called 'Most Recent Muslim Terror Attacks' !). Just two examples from MANY more, Farah.

These attacks were carried out in support of Islam, the same foul creed you buy into. As a loyal Muslim, will you ignore these accounts ? Attack their veracity ? Will you dismiss them entirely, because these CRIMINAL, HEINOUS acts happened in the EAST, perpetrated by 'Easterners' ?

ARE THEY NOT WORTHY OF UTTER CONDEMNATION ?

You have refused to start a 'Criminal East' thread. Yet, all such acts as these cry out for condemnation. WE in the West, us so-called 'criminals' (according to YOU), wouldn't hesitate to do so, Farah. WHY do you REFUSE to ?

BECAUSE YOU HAVE A PRO-MUSLIM AGENDA TO ONLY ATTACK THE WEST.

Drummond

12-18-2018, 12:28 AM

Here what I meant in another topic about the actions of Western countries when they are "invited" to ensure "peace" and "justice" somewhere around the World, I would like to post this my "Criminal West" topic but its closed.

Britain "transfers?!" 45 Trillion $ worth of sources from India to Britain between 1765-1938.

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/britain-stole-45-trillion-india-181206124830851.html

This is one of those cases - IF the author's claim is worth anything - of the sins of the fathers being visited upon later generations.

I don't know if this Hickel character is making a fair case, or not. He might not be. I note the link is an Al Jazeera one, and Al Jazeera has its own biases, no doubt expecting its commentators to fall in line with them.

[Then again, Hickel is a London School of Economics professor. Its students have a long-standing reputation for Left wing activism.]

But let's say he's correct, for the sake of argument. What does that mean for the people, policies, the very realities in play, in TODAY'S world ?

Hickel refers to the excesses seen during the days of the British Empire. But we have no such Empire anymore ... those days ended GENERATIONS ago. Its like my digging up all the crimes Turkey has been responsible for over the last 200 years and more, and saying Turkey must fully atone for it all, RIGHT NOW.

I've a funny feeling Farah wouldn't like that to happen .. somehow ...... :rolleyes:

I note that Farah wishes she could post this in the 'Criminal West' thread of hers. To what end ?

Maybe I should pre-empt Farah's 'imminent creation of a 'Criminal East' thread:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:, by creating one myself, then using it to detail every single notable act of barbarity committed by Islam's hordes, since Islam's very creation ?

Should I start that thread chronologically, and devote its first post to Mohammed's paedophilia ?? Eh, Farah ?

Would you like that, Farah .. ?

Indeed, would Jim like it ? His equipment would have to eventually accommodate the sheer size of the mass of data such a thread would electronically generate ..... :eek::eek::eek:

Farah, you hate the West as only a deluded, sick, twisted, semi-berserk, 'vengeful' fanatic could. You devote yourself to bashing it (or TRYING to) in any and every way you think you can, no matter how ludicrous the basis for your efforts turns out to be. But here, we see - even by your nearly nonexistent 'standards' (!!!) - desperation creeping in, don't we ? Now, you happily scrape the bottom of the barrel to go back hundreds of years for material to use as your basis for attacks !!

Seriously, Farah, don't you get that your stupid, pointless bile is so very toxic to even YOU, that it's reducing your efforts to pure farce ?

H'mm .. ?

Do us all a good turn, Farah, and remain with this forum. As entertainment, you have an absurdity about you I've not seen matched by anyone in years. You're getting ever-more extreme, and turning into sheer parody.

High_Plains_Drifter

12-18-2018, 08:31 AM

She won't be back. I think she reached her breaking point. She knows she's spreading crap, and can't defend the facts about her own islamic cult and all the crimes against humanity it has carried out.

Farah

12-18-2018, 08:33 AM

Let's see one...

Nope.

You can't eat pigs because you're a Muslim ? Yes ?

I knew you are going to say that, I didnt share any details, you are creating a conspiracy theory, as you see you want me to share a reliable source for any words I speak when it does not fit with your interests but you "believe" that I am Muslim without any proof because it works in accordance with your interests. Maybe I am a vegeterian or maybe I dont like red meat, yes actually I cant eat red meat as long as its not ground meat, I cant chew and digest it easily, I like chicken and fish meat.

http://www.bpnews.net/50560/american-pastor-charged-with-terrorism-in-turkey

As a Muslim Turk, driven by her 'faith', do you think that all atrocities done in its name deserve no strong, publicly-expressed, censure ?

Your source is lying. The so-called pastor is an US agent, he has ties with many terrorists and terror groups. US was planning to murder him in prison in Turkiye and we took him to home detention to prevent it and he is released after some talks between governments that we will probably never learn their content. This is how Western state controlled media are washing brains of Western people about other countries, by complately distorting the main story to hide their criminal actions.

High_Plains_Drifter

12-18-2018, 08:36 AM

Nope.
Then as with much else you've said here, I believe you're lying.

High_Plains_Drifter

12-18-2018, 08:47 AM

Your source is lying. The so-called pastor is an US agent, he has ties with many terrorists and terror groups.

No, sorry, the source isn't lying, and I think you know it. Facts are facts, and when the entire free world knows the facts to be true because the entire free world witnessed them and is aware that these facts are true, the brain washed one is you. You DON'T live in a free world. You live in a backwards, third world, oppressive shit hole that controls everything it's people is allowed to do, say and hear, and you have been brain washed since BIRTH. You appear to be OBLIVIOUS to what is actually happening in the rest of the world. You have a couple places you find things that are nothing more than rabid, radical websites full of opinion and outright lies, and you swallow it all up as if it's the truth. You are ignorant, willfully ignorant. You make no attempt what so ever to even fact check these radical places you get "informations" to see if they're telling the truth. You believe it without question, and that makes you not only ignorant, but STUPID.

You also appear to be a quite VAIN little girl that thinks her shit doesn't stink. You know damn well your shit stinks because you wipe your ass with your fingers. But You think you're hot, that's quite evident. You're a little arrogant, egotistical narcissist, with the brain power of a dog. What does Muhammad have to say about little muslim girls that are vain? Have you had your female genital mutilation yet?

And yes, you're a muslim. Only a brain washed muslim from Turkey like yourself would be saying and doing the things you're doing here, not to mention, there really is nothing else you could possibly be in Turkey, because you people kill everyone else.

Farah

12-18-2018, 10:11 AM

As I said, US soldiers will hide in buildings while Turkiye operates. Turkish official says US gave coordinates of locations where US soldiers "stay".

Farah

12-18-2018, 10:15 AM

.... and many of them migrated to abroad.

Turkish science and technology research development institution Tubitak Sage calls outstanding Turkish scientists to come back to home.

http://tubitak.gov.tr/tr/haber/uluslararasi-lider-arastirmacilar-programi-basvuruya-acildi

Farah

12-18-2018, 10:26 AM

Here some innocent "civilians".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYVeKBAXQEs

jimnyc

12-18-2018, 10:28 AM

Oh Joy, PigWoman is back.

Drummond

12-18-2018, 10:40 AM

I knew you are going to say that, I didnt share any details, you are creating a conspiracy theory, as you see you want me to share a reliable source for any words I speak when it does not fit with your interests but you "believe" that I am Muslim without any proof because it works in accordance with your interests. Maybe I am a vegeterian or maybe I dont like red meat, yes actually I cant eat red meat as long as its not ground meat, I cant chew and digest it easily, I like chicken and fish meat.

H'm. A lengthy 'explanation' of your eating habits, but, LACKING A DENIAL THAT YOU'RE A MUSLIM.

Perhaps you believe your own bile and genuinely think I'm stupid .. and therefore, that I wouldn't notice that 'little technicality'.

Perhaps that 'remarkable omission' infers the proof that you ARE one.

Or, just perhaps, you're fooling nobody. You ARE a Muslim, intent on pathetically trying to hide it (& doing a lousy job), because, as I say, THIS IS WHY YOU HATE THE WEST .. THIS IS WHAT DRIVES YOUR AGENDA.

Your source is lying. The so-called pastor is an US agent, he has ties with many terrorists and terror groups. US was planning to murder him in prison in Turkiye and we took him to home detention to prevent it and he is released after some talks between governments that we will probably never learn their content. This is how Western state controlled media are washing brains of Western people about other countries, by complately distorting the main story to hide their criminal actions.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

It's OK. I'm not laughing at your persistent mis-spelling of 'COMPLETELY' (perhaps your dictionary was 'lying to you' .. ?).

OK, so, here we have it. Any evidence of Turkey's outrages will be dismissed as 'lies' .. however, any & all Twitter stuff you post, is a hundred percent reliable ??

A lot of people, news agencies, are 'spreading that lie'. THEY are wrong. YOU, our anti-Western resident propagandist, are telling the truth ?

'Liars, all' .... here we go ...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/12/andrew-brunson-release-turkish-court

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/10/12/american-pastor-andrew-brunson-released-detention-turkey/1612749002/

https://aclj.org/persecuted-church/american-pastor-andrew-brunson-wrongfully-imprisoned-in-turkey

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/12/andrew-brunson-an-american-pastor-jailed-in-turkey/

He was released from Turkish custody .. eventually, so we're told. One could easily infer that Turkey had understood it had gone way too far in persecuting him.

Anyway, Farah, I'm sure we'll hear of future outrages committed by the Turkish State machinery. Will you be on hand to say 'Lies, lies, all lies' to whatever your lot get up to ?

Maybe not. Maybe even you will realise how futile your lies are.

Drummond

12-18-2018, 10:45 AM

Here some innocent "civilians".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYVeKBAXQEs

Dare I ask. The origin of this stuff (other than YouTube) ... is ... ?

Tell me about the reliability of the word of a terrorist ... ? ....

Come on. We've got lousy weather where I am, currently. So I could do with the laugh you've got in store for us ..

Drummond

12-18-2018, 10:47 AM

Turkish science and technology research development institution Tubitak Sage calls outstanding Turkish scientists to come back to home.

http://tubitak.gov.tr/tr/haber/uluslararasi-lider-arastirmacilar-programi-basvuruya-acildi

Why did they run away in the first place ?

What would persuade them to get away from your 'utopia' ?

Do tell .....

Drummond

12-18-2018, 10:57 AM

I'm waiting for the 'lies, all lies' rot to be Farah's response, to ....

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2014/10/president-erdogans-media-control-turkeys-censorship-is-less-brutal-but-more-effective.html

... The bad news is that despite a diminished risk of criminal prosecution, media freedom in Turkey has deteriorated in other respects. Journalists we met with in Istanbul described a pervasive atmosphere of fear and self-censorship, a polarized, highly partisan media environment characterized by growing government control and fewer independent voices. The overall picture was of a new style of media censorship that is less brutal, less visible—and much more effective.

President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has been focused on getting major media into friendly hands, using behind-the-scenes pressure to control coverage and muzzle criticism. Arbitrary tax penalties are assessed to force newspapers into bankruptcy—after which they emerge, owned by friends of the president. According to a recent investigation by Bloomberg, Erdogan forced a sale of the once independent daily Sabah to a consortium of businessmen led by his son-in-law. Sabah is now an unofficial government mouthpiece, employing Erdogan’s son-in-law as a regular columnist.

Farah

12-18-2018, 11:46 AM

Then as with much else you've said here, I believe you're lying.

No I am not lying. Would you accept dog nose instead of pork, currently I cant find pork one in my gallery.

Farah

12-18-2018, 11:56 AM

H'm. A lengthy 'explanation' of your eating habits, but, LACKING A DENIAL THAT YOU'RE A MUSLIM.

Perhaps you believe your own bile and genuinely think I'm stupid .. and therefore, that I wouldn't notice that 'little technicality'.

Perhaps that 'remarkable omission' infers the proof that you ARE one.

Or, just perhaps, you're fooling nobody. You ARE a Muslim, intent on pathetically trying to hide it (& doing a lousy job), because, as I say, THIS IS WHY YOU HATE THE WEST .. THIS IS WHAT DRIVES YOUR AGENDA.
[SIZE=2]

Yes you are stupid. Nope I am a fire worshipper, especially barbecue fire, it makes foods tasty, barbecued fish for example.

A lot of people, news agencies, are 'spreading that lie'. THEY are wrong. YOU, our anti-Western resident propagandist, are telling the truth ?

'Liars, all' .... here we go ...

Yes, a lot of people lying, most of them are paid journalists, Udo Ulfkotte said that many of these journalists are preparing articles in exchange of money and he was found "died" in his home.

Drummond

12-18-2018, 12:11 PM

Yes you are stupid. Nope I am a fire worshipper, especially barbecue fire, it makes foods tasty, barbecued fish for example.

There's a difference between credible lies and incredible lies. Try to comprehend.

... although .. h'm. As a means of shifting focus on truth, are you trying to portray yourself, now, to be a nutter ?

The truth - despite your wriggling around it - is that you're a Muslim. We're very aware of it by now.

I'll leave you to decide whether insanity had any place in your being one.

Yes, a lot of people lying, most of them are paid journalists, Udo Ulfkotte said that many of these journalists are preparing articles in exchange of money and he was found "died" in his home.

Now, THAT is funny. Better to believe in Twitter, where anybody with any imaginable agenda can post what the hell they like. Rational, that ? I hardly think so.

Yes, and reputable, professional, news sources cannot - by comparison - be believed in. Yeah. Sure. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Farah, nope, it won't work. You're pushing the appearance of being nuts (from the sheer irrationality of your thinking). In reality, you're a Muslim propagandist, who has been brainwashed into her hatreds, and is giving vent to them, here, on a daily basis.

P.S ... oh, and on Udo Ulfkotte ? I see he took a strong anti-Islam line. Yes ? So, if you want to be a fan of conspiracy theories to help you get through your day, try chewing over the thought that Muslims - PERHAPS - bumped him off ?

Do you enjoy that possibility ? You like conspiracy stuff, so, you must like that suggestion.

Perhaps it offends your Muslim propagandist mindset, though, to publicly concede that unhelpful possibility ?

High_Plains_Drifter

12-18-2018, 02:09 PM

Turkish science and technology research development institution Tubitak Sage calls outstanding Turkish scientists to come back to home.

http://tubitak.gov.tr/tr/haber/uluslararasi-lider-arastirmacilar-programi-basvuruya-acildi
I don't know what turkish scientists you're talking about, but once you people get out of that shit hole you live in, they get a taste of the freedom and good life here in America, and they're not leaving. Why would they want to go back to your stone age shit hole?

And so you're a FIRE WORSHIPER? So then you worship HELL and SATAN. Are you a WITCH too? Possibly you're a DEMON? What are you going to do when the muslims in Turkey find out and bury you up to your shoulders and stone you to death? You'll go to hell for worshiping fire, and the country that you so loved and adored and lied for will be the one that killed you.

tailfins

12-18-2018, 02:10 PM

No I am not lying. Would you accept dog nose instead of pork, currently I cant find pork one in my gallery.

Have you ever stopped to consider that all you're doing is sitting around trading insults with some pensioners who have nothing better to do? I'm not saying this to run you off, but for your own good. Wouldn't the time you spend spreading anger be better spent learning a trade?

If you're smart enough to learn English, you're smart enough to learn Java and Python. Try solving problems on https://www.hackerrank.com/ . You can find tutorials to help you answer the questions both online and on YouTube. It pays well.

High_Plains_Drifter

12-18-2018, 02:23 PM

Have you ever stopped to consider that all you're doing is sitting around trading insults with some pensioners who have nothing better to do? I'm not saying this to run you off, but for your own good. Wouldn't the time you spend spreading anger be better spent learning a trade?

If you're smart enough to learn English, you're smart enough to learn Java and Python. Try solving problems on https://www.hackerrank.com/ . You can find tutorials to help you answer the questions both online and on YouTube. It pays well.
Still sucking up to the little muslim bitch I see... you're really pathetic... :slap:

And I don't have a military pension. I'm a service connected disabled veteran, and I assure you, I have plenty to do. Course you wouldn't know anything about that. You were too much of a pussy to enlist... or were too fat and/or stupid, and spare us your hypocrisy. You post as much as any of the rest of us do. MORE so than MOST of the other veterans here, in fact.

Farah

12-18-2018, 02:25 PM

Have you ever stopped to consider that all you're doing is sitting around trading insults with some pensioners who have nothing better to do? I'm not saying this to run you off, but for your own good. Wouldn't the time you spend spreading anger be better spent learning a trade?

If you're smart enough to learn English, you're smart enough to learn Java and Python. Try solving problems on https://www.hackerrank.com/ . You can find tutorials to help you answer the questions both online and on YouTube. It pays well.

There is a time difference, while you are sleeping, we re working. I know how to trade, we have a company here. I know basics of HTML, CSS, Javascript and PHP, I also have coded some parts of my projects but I wont do that anymore, its not for me, I have the features of a director, I can make perfect plans and someones implements these plans, thats all.

jimnyc

12-18-2018, 02:29 PM

Black Diamond

12-18-2018, 02:43 PM

Still sucking up to the little muslim bitch I see... you're really pathetic... :slap:

And I don't have a military pension. I'm a service connected disabled veteran, and I assure you, I have plenty to do. Course you wouldn't know anything about that. You were too much of a pussy to enlist... or were too fat and/or stupid, and spare us your hypocrisy. You post as much as any of the rest of us do. MORE so than MOST of the other veterans here, in fact.

It's unfortunate people attack service folks. I thought only leftists did that.

High_Plains_Drifter

12-18-2018, 02:59 PM

It's unfortunate people attack service folks. I thought only leftists did that.
He wouldn't do it our face.

tailfins

12-18-2018, 03:35 PM

He wouldn't do it our face.

If it were in a public place and the veteran was being a pain in the ass, you bet I would. But it wouldn't be for being a veteran, it would be for being a pain in the ass.

Black Diamond

12-18-2018, 03:45 PM

If it were in a public place and the veteran was being a pain in the ass, you bet I would. But it wouldn't be for being a veteran, it would be for being a pain in the ass.

When you refer to them as pensioners you're denigrating their service. As if they aren't worth it. I don't care how much a pain in the ass you think they are.

Farah

12-18-2018, 03:53 PM

High_Plains_Drifter

12-18-2018, 04:19 PM

If it were in a public place and the veteran was being a pain in the ass, you bet I would. But it wouldn't be for being a veteran, it would be for being a pain in the ass.
What's the matter... you scared to run your mouth to one of "US" in private, tough guy? If you got something to say to a veteran that you think is so damn important, where you're at shouldn't make any difference.

You're a fuckin' pussy, on top of being a POS for what you think of women.

High_Plains_Drifter

12-18-2018, 04:21 PM

Drummond

12-18-2018, 06:43 PM

If it were in a public place and the veteran was being a pain in the ass, you bet I would. But it wouldn't be for being a veteran, it would be for being a pain in the ass.

You'd need it to be in a public place, in the hope it'd offer you some measure of protection ?

This is another issue where we part company, Tailfins. Veterans have earned respect, and I don't believe you could ever have good grounds for not giving it.

tailfins

12-18-2018, 07:20 PM

You'd need it to be in a public place, in the hope it'd offer you some measure of protection ?

This is another issue where we part company, Tailfins. Veterans have earned respect, and I don't believe you could ever have good grounds for not giving it.

Being a veteran isn't a get out of jail free card for cutting in line, tailgating in traffic, being loud and demanding to be seen first in the emergency room or at the bank and the like.

Drummond

12-18-2018, 07:22 PM

There is a time difference, while you are sleeping, we re working. I know how to trade, we have a company here. I know basics of HTML, CSS, Javascript and PHP, I also have coded some parts of my projects but I wont do that anymore, its not for me, I have the features of a director, I can make perfect plans and someones implements these plans, thats all.

You're always good for a laugh, Farah.

Don't misunderstand me. It isn't for me to try to judge your capabilities. Who knows, maybe when you're a lot older, you might manage to realise your ambitions.

.. Perhaps.

But, nonetheless, your posts tell us things about your outlook, how you think. There are certain fundamental qualities you need.

Do you have the capacity to judge people, situations, with analytical objectivity ?

Are you open to employing that objectivity when considering ideas not necessarily your own ?

Do you even view the world around you realistically ??

Your posting says a resounding 'NO' to all these.

You could use your time here to learn. To test ideas and perspectives against alternative ones, which you'll find in abundance here (.. to say the least !!).

But, no. Your subjective 'truth' is all you care about. You'll listen to nobody ... you'll reject what a large part of the entire world tells you, if you choose to. Somehow, you're irrational enough to believe TWITTER over reputable news agencies !! [That's as nuts as it gets].

Farah, you're a kid with grandiose ideas, and not the qualities in evidence to show anybody that you can realise them.

And, you'll never believe I'm right, in a million years. Such is your insufferable arrogance.

.. OK. You can go back to your irrationality now (always assuming you aren't being led by the nose). Go back to being an arrogant, opinionated Muslim, obeying Islamic hatreds. I don't have the patience with you I once had to try to reason with you any further.

Elessar

12-18-2018, 07:28 PM

If it were in a public place and the veteran was being a pain in the ass, you bet I would. But it wouldn't be for being a veteran, it would be for being a pain in the ass.

You think that you are something great. But let me give you a clue. The vast majority of Veterans
do NOT pick fights in public. We would rather laugh and walk away. It is aggressive liberal ass-holes that
keep up a confrontation. The only thing you Antifa creeps have is security in numbers. One-on-one
you are cowards....got to cover your faces with masks.

Yeah...You are an Antifa...

Get aggressive with me, get within 5 feet and touch me, you will be on your knees
not knowing what hit you in 3 seconds. No weapons, just one empty open hands strike.

tailfins

12-18-2018, 07:55 PM

You think that you are something great. But let me give you a clue. The vast majority of Veterans
do NOT pick fights in public. We would rather laugh and walk away. It is aggressive liberal ass-holes that
keep up a confrontation. The only thing you Antifa creeps have is security in numbers. One-on-one
you are cowards....got to cover your faces with masks.

Yeah...You are an Antifa...

Get aggressive with me, get within 5 feet and touch me, you will be on your knees
not knowing what hit you in 3 seconds. No weapons, just one empty open hands strike.

The vast majority is the operative term. Are you really that daft? Look at my avatar for a clue. If you aggressively stomp around at the bank for example because fixing YOUR error is so important that others, but not you have to wait, guess what, I'm going to get you on camera, call the cops and testify against you when the time comes. Not accepting other people's uncivilized shit doesn't make someone a member of ANTIFA.

Elessar

12-18-2018, 08:10 PM

The vast majority is the operative term. Are you really that daft? Look at my avatar for a clue. If you aggressively stomp around at the bank for example because fixing YOUR error is so important that others, but not you have to wait, guess what, I'm going to get you on camera, call the cops and testify against you when the time comes. Not accepting other people's uncivilized shit doesn't make someone a member of ANTIFA.

Your avatar is no clue except clinging to a 3rd world county's politics.

Get a camera. Just make sure it captures it all, not just your side. Your uncivilized shit
does not fly with me. I stand by my ground. When pushed in a corner for being an uncivilized creep...call the Cops?

Good luck with that.

Drummond

12-18-2018, 08:18 PM

The vast majority is the operative term. Are you really that daft? Look at my avatar for a clue. If you aggressively stomp around at the bank for example because fixing YOUR error is so important that others, but not you have to wait, guess what, I'm going to get you on camera, call the cops and testify against you when the time comes. Not accepting other people's uncivilized shit doesn't make someone a member of ANTIFA.

Your assumption of unreasonable arrogance suggests to me that you're arguing from a position of prejudice. I no more believe that the kind of sheer arrogance you assume is true of American veterans exists, any more than it would for those we have on my side of the Pond.

My suggestion: our people, and yours, have something in common: they fought for freedoms. They didn't fight to betray them, by becoming self-styled, petty little Hitlers.

However ... they DID fight for their country. That entitles them to a much-earned respect. You really need to understand that.

Drummond

12-18-2018, 08:41 PM

The US state controlled media is controlled by career government functionaries (thanks Rush) and not elected officials like the President. Many in the US state controlled media are sympathetic to your point of view. They love the US bureaucracy, but hate the typical American.

I have a riddle for @Farah (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=3966) : Should you pronounce the letters "i" or "s" when you say the capital of the state of Kentucky? In other words, do you pronounce the capital of Kentucky as "Lou-ville", "Loui-ville" or "Lou-is-ville"?

Bonus question: Since you are so interested in the border with Mexico: If a plane crashes in the Rio Grande, where do you bury the survivors?

No answers to the riddles from US citizens, please!

Note to board: It is more fun to go over someone's head than to directly respond.

I'm not a US citizen, so I'll consider myself 'free' (.. gee, thanks !) to answer your bonus question.

Assuming you meant your question as you asked it .. you don't 'bury' the SURVIVORS, at all (... well, maybe a Muslim would ? ...). Corpses, maybe (if you don't cremate them).

As for where the survivors go, well, you need to consider certain questions.

1. Where, exactly, DID the crash occur ? On what side of the border ?

2. Each survivor - what's his or her nationality ? American ? Mexican ? Maybe from some other country, too (you never know, there might be some Brits there ...) ?

3. What is the legal status of each survivor, in terms of nationality, and official permission to be in the territory they find themselves ?

Illegals would need to be rendered mobile enough to be returned to where they legally belong, as soon as possible. For those it doesn't apply to, well ... it doesn't !

I would think you'd return corpses, too. An 'illegal' doesn't acquire legality by virtue of being dead.

Tailfins, did you mean to ask a question with such 'sloppy' parameters, or not ?

Drummond

12-18-2018, 09:55 PM

The "reliable" Western news agency "BBC" this time cuts the parts of an interview with Turkish state official related to Britain's punishment for terror propaganda. A few days ago they also cut some parts interview with Pakistani state official about India.

I've posted about the BBC before. Although at first glance it might seem that I'm 'agreeing' with you ... well, don't kid yourself ....

The BBC used to have a reputation for totally fair reporting. These days, many accept that it reports according to inbuilt biases.

As someone (since I'm in the UK !) who watches the BBC's output a lot, and compares it with other media outlets (... sorry, I don't rely on Twitter rubbish !!) ... I'd say that the BBC doesn't report falsehoods. What it does, though, is to skew available facts so that they better fit a preferred narrative.

I have some good news for you, Farah. The BBC is recognised as having an anti-ISRAEL bias !

Another example: when reporting a terrorist attack, they're highly choosy about the wording in their reports. They'll offer 'bomber'. Or, 'attacker'. As for the word 'terrorist', they'll not INITIATE it in a report, merely repeat somebody else's use of the word. Only once 'terrorist' becomes a description that's beyond all possible doubt, will they volunteer the word themselves.

So, aren't you pleased with them ? They don't report LIES as such, just produce subtle skewings of reports. And you, Farah, as a propagandist Muslim, must be overjoyed by their anti-Israel bias !!

I'll just bet you use the BBC from time to time, rather than Twitter, from now on. Eh, Farah ? ANYTHING for the 'cause' ....

This is an Israeli link. Quick, Farah, ignore it !!! .....

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/232117

.... Grade then cited a particularly egregious example of media bias against Israel – an example he found from the BBC.

“Recently, two Palestinians, unprovoked, attacked Israeli police officers in Jerusalem with guns and knives, while the third stabbed to death Border Police staff sergeant Hadas Malka, age 23.”

“The BBC headline on their news website was: Three Palestinians killed after deadly stabbing in Jerusalem.”

This is not the first time Grade has taken the BBC to task for its anti-Israel bias. In 2015, Grade blasted the British media outlet for “inexcusable” bias, and accused it having “directly misled” viewers regarding terror attacks on Israel and Israel’s security measures against the terror wave.

You like them, now, don't you, Farah ?

There's a rule of thumb to be employed. A Left-leaning media outlet will favour Left-wing causes (a frequent one is to sanitise Muslims, & what they do). A Right-wing one will act as a counterweight to the Left. In so doing, you may rely on Right-wing outlets for far greater fairness and realism.

This is why Muslims of your ilk don't like them much. This may well -- though you won't understand it -- be why anyone near you will be pleased you attack the so-called 'criminal West' ... because the Right wing WILL expose Muslim outrages.

Maybe now you'll understand why your blanket condemnation of what you call 'the criminal West' is so absurd. It lacks the smallest recognition of detail. It is unsophisticated in the extreme, childlike in its simplicity, unjust in its bigoted claimed-for scope. Therefore ... well ... just, simply, STUPID.

aboutime

12-18-2018, 10:44 PM

After laughing through much of the TF posts where the snob talks so bravely. It reminded me that...compared to TF. I have had far more intelligent, interesting, and logical experiences with daily bowel movements. All of which have a much higher IQ as well.:laugh:

I need to hear TF dispute that, and provide an Honest comparison from his own experience.

Farah

12-19-2018, 03:35 AM

Two US backed terrorists fleeing from Syria surrendered to Turkish security forces in the border. Yes this is a good decision, they want to live.

Farah

12-19-2018, 03:51 AM

Farah

12-19-2018, 09:15 AM

US officials says they are going to leave Northern Syria as quick as possible.

https://twitter.com/ShoebridgeC/status/1075393616519008256

Drummond

12-19-2018, 09:20 AM

Two US backed terrorists fleeing from Syria surrendered to Turkish security forces in the border. Yes this is a good decision, they want to live.

... and, in your country, then, there's no question that they'll be permitted to live ??

Not too surprising, I suggest ... tell us again about 'strong' Turkey ...

The UK is no better, unfortunately. BUT, the 'criminal US' is far more enlightened. The US still has the death penalty (in parts of it).

Drummond

12-19-2018, 09:24 AM

Farah

12-19-2018, 11:32 AM

US President says they were in Syria to "defeat" ISIS and they defeated ISIS.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1075397797929775105

High_Plains_Drifter

12-19-2018, 11:36 AM

US President says they were in Syria to "defeat" ISIS and they defeated ISIS.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1075397797929775105
We already know...

Drummond

12-19-2018, 12:08 PM

US President says they were in Syria to "defeat" ISIS and they defeated ISIS.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1075397797929775105

Ah, TWITTER again !! 'Glory be'....

You never learn a thing, do you, Farah. Sign of 'director' qualities, that ... :laugh::laugh::laugh::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes :

Anyway, tell us more about your reverence for 'things Ottoman'.

... Or do you want to duck that one ?

Farah

12-19-2018, 02:55 PM

We already know...

You dont know anything other than insulting people.

tailfins

12-19-2018, 03:15 PM

You dont know anything other than insulting people.

When you insult other people's countries, you insult them. If you indeed plan on being successful in completing international projects, you can't afford to insult other people's countries, ESPECIALLY if you use your real name. The best you can hope for is placing a layer of bureaucracy between you and types of people you don't like. For example, some people don't like to be around "stinky" Indians. I on the other hand cringe at the stinky personality of an American woman. It isn't explicitly stated that way, instead substituting words like "difficult person" or "unmotivated individuals". I'm comfortable asking for something three or four times from a person who is enjoyable to be around.

You express it in a "politically correct" fashion and trade being a intermediary with other colleagues. If you want to be successful, you will need to get cooperation from many nationalities, for you, that includes Americans.

Farah

12-19-2018, 03:34 PM

When you insult other people's countries, you insult them.

If you mean my words about US, its not insult, its fact.

Just look at the Youtube video below, which drops to my recommends list. These things would not happen in Iraq or Pakistan which is a war zone. US is soo backward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zsD1W36Cek

tailfins

12-19-2018, 04:09 PM

If you mean my words about US, its not insult, its fact.

Just look at the Youtube video below, which drops to my recommends list. These things would not happen in Iraq or Pakistan which is a war zone. US is soo backward.

That video is 100% accurate. Yet, shitloads of money rolls around in our economy. Adapt! Buy a dashcam and put a sticker on your car that says "Smile, you're on camera". That makes people think twice before doing that kind of crap.

tailfins

12-19-2018, 04:30 PM

If you mean my words about US, its not insult, its fact.

Just look at the Youtube video below, which drops to my recommends list. These things would not happen in Iraq or Pakistan which is a war zone. US is soo backward.

What the woman being blocked and eventually hit by the pickup should have done is stay in her lane and called the cops. He would have likely been charged with false imprisonment, which is a felony.

Drummond

12-19-2018, 06:38 PM

If you mean my words about US, its not insult, its fact.

Just look at the Youtube video below, which drops to my recommends list. These things would not happen in Iraq or Pakistan which is a war zone. US is soo backward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zsD1W36Cek

... 'Sorry' ... what ? I'm trying to follow your 'logic'.

War zones, then, are socially preferable ?!? You think Iraq and Pakistan, are LESS 'backward' because of the truth of their reality ??

Let me guess. Countries where Sharia Law is prevalent, are less backward ? You want to discuss 'backwardness', and the barbarity of a Sharia Law system will make an excellent basis for such a discussion ...

Freedom of expression sometimes has unfortunate consequences. But there are worse things. A social order where repression is the norm is, believe it or not, orders of magnitude worse than the reality of the video you've posted.

You should note (if you care to, or are you too busy bashing America to care ?) that there is law and order in America. Actions of the sort you've shown us, ARE, I'm sure, actionable in law.

... just not Sharia Law, though. I've no doubt you lament that fact.

P.S ... I thought I'd add this point:

You said, in an earlier post ...

I think with each passing day Turkiye gets stronger, the World will meet again with the Ottoman logic more and more.

You gave away more than you probably realised with that comment. The Ottoman Empire was Islamic, and Islam was therefore prevalent throughout the extent of the Empire's dominion. You use the phrase 'Ottoman logic', which infers an approval of how it ran things.

So, it's clear: you approve of what that Islamic Empire was.

Did the Ottoman Empire have Sharia Law ? YES, IT DID.

Do you want 'the World' to experience 'Ottoman logic' ? Evidently ... YES.

So, you're not only Muslim yourself, but comparatively 'hardline' about it, too. Your hatred of the West testifies to that. Your utter refusal to see anything good about the West shows your disgustingly bigoted disregard for any reality impinging on that hatred.

You want us all to experience 'Ottoman logic'. This means, in part at least, SHARIA LAW.

So. Where do you get off criticising the West, when you'd happily SEE US ALL SUBJUGATED TO SHARIA LAW'S BARBARITIES ??!?:death::death:

Before you say it: I'm aware that present-day Turkey doesn't - OFFICIALLY - implement Sharia Law (though its implementation has been discussed, online !). But then, what YOU want is for THE WORLD to experience 'OTTOMAN LOGIC'. So you want Turkey, evidently, to drift ever-more backwards to days, and savage repressions, long since past.

Your scope to criticise the West from a position of moral reputability is, it seems to me, as nonexistent as a dodo.

tailfins

12-19-2018, 07:32 PM

... 'Sorry' ... what ? I'm trying to follow your 'logic'.

War zones, then, are socially preferable ?!? You think Iraq and Pakistan, are LESS 'backward' because of the truth of their reality ??

Let me guess. Countries where Sharia Law is prevalent, are less backward ? You want to discuss 'backwardness', and the barbarity of a Sharia Law system will make an excellent basis for such a discussion ...

Freedom of expression sometimes has unfortunate consequences. But there are worse things. A social order where repression is the norm is, believe it or not, orders of magnitude worse than the reality of the video you've posted.

You should note (if you care to, or are you too busy bashing America to care ?) that there is law and order in America. Actions of the sort you've shown us, ARE, I'm sure, actionable in law.

... just not Sharia Law, though. I've no doubt you lament that fact.

P.S ... I thought I'd add this point:

You said, in an earlier post ...

You gave away more than you probably realised with that comment. The Ottoman Empire was Islamic, and Islam was therefore prevalent throughout the extent of the Empire's dominion. You use the phrase 'Ottoman logic', which infers an approval of how it ran things.

So, it's clear: you approve of what that Islamic Empire was.

Did the Ottoman Empire have Sharia Law ? YES, IT DID.

Do you want 'the World' to experience 'Ottoman logic' ? Evidently ... YES.

So, you're not only Muslim yourself, but comparatively 'hardline' about it, too. Your hatred of the West testifies to that. Your utter refusal to see anything good about the West shows your disgustingly bigoted disregard for any reality impinging on that hatred.

You want us all to experience 'Ottoman logic'. This means, in part at least, SHARIA LAW.

So. Where do you get off criticising the West, when you'd happily SEE US ALL SUBJUGATED TO SHARIA LAW'S BARBARITIES ??!?:death::death:

Before you say it: I'm aware that present-day Turkey doesn't - OFFICIALLY - implement Sharia Law (though its implementation has been discussed, online !). But then, what YOU want is for THE WORLD to experience 'OTTOMAN LOGIC'. So you want Turkey, evidently, to drift ever-more backwards to days, and savage repressions, long since past.

Your scope to criticise the West from a position of moral reputability is, it seems to me, as nonexistent as a dodo.

What do you think of how the Chinese are controlling Islam? Why do you suppose there's not more outrage about it? I respect discussions more from people who admit that the vast majority of people have little control of what their country's government does.

Drummond

12-19-2018, 07:40 PM

Further to my previous post ... here's a taste of where 'Ottoman logic' once led ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_Ottoman_Empire

Slavery in the Ottoman Empire was a legal and significant part of the Ottoman Empire's economy and society. The main sources of slaves were war captives and organized enslavement expeditions in North and East Africa, Eastern Europe, the Balkans, and the Caucasus. It has been reported that the selling price of slaves fell after large military operations. In Constantinople (present-day Istanbul), the administrative and political center of the Empire, about a fifth of the population consisted of slaves in 1609. Sixteenth- and 17th-century customs statistics suggest that Istanbul's additional slave import from the Black Sea may have totaled around 2.5 million from 1450 to 1700.

Even after several measures to ban slavery in the late 19th century, the practice continued largely unabated into the early 20th century. As late as 1908, female slaves were still sold in the Ottoman Empire. Sexual slavery was a central part of the Ottoman slave system throughout the history of the institution.

If Farah wants the world to experience 'Ottoman logic', does the resurrection of slavery, presumably on a worldwide scale, figure into it ? Can Farah assure us that it wouldn't ? Or, is this a part of the 'Ottoman logic' that she happily approves of ??

... and she still finds latitude to disapprove of a 'road rage' video, and the society in which it occurs (???) ... !!! ....

Drummond

12-19-2018, 07:51 PM

What do you think of how the Chinese are controlling Islam? Why do you suppose there's not more outrage about it? I respect discussions more from people who admit that the vast majority of people have little control of what their country's government does.

China itself is subject to its own form of repression. Those administering China, in Government, repress because it's their style of control. They'll tolerate nothing that rivals this control. Islam IS a rival to China's Communism, so, it won't be tolerated as the rival it is.

There isn't 'more outrage' because expressions of outrage would be suppressed. The suppression would be as brutal as it had to be, in order to work.

Here's a project for Farah to take up: she can start hating China, and post vitriol against them, instead of us !!

... Or ... maybe not. After all, China isn't in the West, but in the East !!

Farah, China could be a reasonable starting-point for your 'The Criminal East' thread ... yes ? Isn't it high time you added that thread to this forum ??

Farah

12-20-2018, 03:35 AM

Yes, a lot of people lying, most of them are paid journalists, Udo Ulfkotte said that many of these journalists are preparing articles in exchange of money and he was found "died" in his home.

The ex author of German magazine Der Spiegel admits that they have distorted the main content of at least 60 articles and they have wrote at least 14 fully fake articles since year 2011. This is one of the most known magazine in Europe that people read and get their brains washed.

https://theprovince.com/news/world/der-spiegel-says-star-reporter-perpetrated-years-long-fraud/wcm/a11819d6-ddd9-4476-b658-87eb6bb7495b

Farah

12-20-2018, 06:46 AM

jimnyc

12-20-2018, 08:45 AM

Drummond

12-20-2018, 09:51 AM

https://i.imgur.com/H83A5Hi.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/YgnQMtq.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/w7SZHpu.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/JPpbwZs.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/4Bzh2It.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/lwvqpdw.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Po1knJC.jpg

...h'm. Farah may be busily organising a Fatwa against you (maybe against all contributors here who 'like' these pics, if she could ever track any of us down !) ... even as I type this.

I'm 'liking' it, NOW .... :dance::dance:

Drummond

12-20-2018, 10:08 AM

After US government announces that they are going to leave Syria, US backed terror groups threatens US with freeing about 3200 ISIS prisoners.

As you see, the main purpose is not to fight ISIS, the main purpose is to create an illegal state in Syria under the pretext of fighthing ISIS.

https://twitter.com/rodnordland/status/1075701883992502272
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::cuckoo::cuckoo::confu sed::facepalm99::facepalm99:

Good ol' Twitter again. Whoopee.

So let me get this straight, Farah.

Certain (or maybe all ? Hell, if we're going to indulge in fantasy stuff ... !! ...) terrorist groups, according to you 'and Twitter', get 'backing' from the US.

The US announces its departure from Syria.

These 'US backed terrorists', then decide it's time - after the departure announcement - to say they'll release thousands of ISIS prisoners. This, they do as a 'threat' against the US.

So, they're threatening the US ... not while they're present ... but, when they're about to pack up and go home !

Most baffling of all .. Farah, why would terrorists threaten their 'backers' ???

What's wrong with this picture ? Anybody ??

If there's a 'pretext' of fighting ISIS (meaning, they're not ACTUALLY fighting them ?), then .. and at the time American forces are clearing off !!! ... why is there any talk of the US being 'under threat' ?

Farah. Can you really be as stupid as this ? :rolleyes:Certainly on this occasion, your propaganda effort is making NO LOGICAL SENSE :cuckoo:. Truth be told, this is an almighty load of crap, and, here, you've over-reached yourself in your effort to demonise the US.

Come back only when you've dreamed up something logical, Farah. In the meantime, if you've comrades who are directing you to post this rot, you might like to have a stern word with them, for making you look a fool, in the face of 'the enemy'.

Farah

12-21-2018, 02:53 PM

US President said he is the person who harms ISIS the most.

Now he gets ISIS angry and will cause a terror attack in US or Europe soon, so I mean an intelligence attack under ISIS cover.

jimnyc

12-21-2018, 02:59 PM

US President said he is the person who harms ISIS the most.

Now he gets ISIS angry and will cause a terror attack in US or Europe soon, so I mean an intelligence attack under ISIS cover.

ISIS are muslims, like the majority of terrorists around the world. Do you condemn Islam and those terrorists and the radicals who will support them and their agendas?

Farah

12-21-2018, 03:32 PM

ISIS are muslims, like the majority of terrorists around the world. Do you condemn Islam and those terrorists and the radicals who will support them and their agendas?

How many people ISIS murdered and how many people US murdered in their histories ?

jimnyc

12-21-2018, 04:11 PM

How many people ISIS murdered and how many people US murdered in their histories ?

Stop deflecting to avoid answering. I will simplify this even further for you...

Do you condemn Islam and those terrorists and the radicals who will support them and their agendas? Not ALL of Islam, but do you condemn ALL muslim terrorist and ALL muslim radicals who may support them in ANY manner?

aboutime

12-21-2018, 04:56 PM

US President said he is the person who harms ISIS the most.

Now he gets ISIS angry and will cause a terror attack in US or Europe soon, so I mean an intelligence attack under ISIS cover.

You sound like the APPEASEMENT bunch of Liberal, Leftist, Radical Democrats who, like Obama, felt more comfortable Apologizing to the rest of the World, than actually Defending America, like Our PRESIDENT is doing today. President Trump Does HARM ISIS, and that's a sign that, unlike OBAMA...he's not gonna bow down, and kiss their butt to BE FRIENDS, while they STAB US IN THE BACK.
If you live in the USA. You do have the opportunity to move where Government controls your life.

Venezuela, Iran, Russia, Syria, and even Turkey. BYE-BYE!

Drummond

12-21-2018, 06:58 PM

How many people ISIS murdered and how many people US murdered in their histories ?

I think you should answer Jim's posts. Instead, you're trying to evade what's being asked.

You've posted about liking .. what was your phrase ? .. 'Ottoman logic'. As we both know, Farah, the Ottoman Empire was Islamic, and 'deeds' committed by that Empire were done in the name of Islam.

... Well ... shall we get a glimpse of the truth of the Ottoman Empire's brutality ?

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-armenian-genocide-1915-16-in-depth

The origin of the term genocide and its codification in international law have their roots in the mass murder of Armenians. Lawyer Raphael Lemkin, the coiner of the word and its later champion at the United Nations, repeatedly stated that early exposure to newspaper stories about Ottoman crimes against Armenians was key to his beliefs about the need for legal protection of groups. (In 1948, in part due to the tireless efforts of Lemkin, the UN approved the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.)

Ottoman authorities, supported by auxiliary troops and civilians, committed most of the murders of 1915-16. The government, controlled by the Committee of Union and Progress (CUP; also called the Young Turks), aimed to solidify Turkish Muslim dominance in the region of eastern Anatolia by eliminating the sizeable Armenian population there.

From 1915-16, the Ottomans killed large numbers of people in mass shootings; many others died during mass deportations due to starvation, dehydration, exposure, and disease. In addition, tens of thousands of Armenian children were forcibly removed from their families and converted to Islam.

Armenian Christians were one of many distinct ethnic groups in the Ottoman Empire. In the late 1880s, some Armenians formed political organizations seeking greater autonomy, reinforcing Ottoman doubts about the loyalty of the wider Armenian community within its borders.

On October 17, 1895, Armenian revolutionaries seized the National Bank in Constantinople, threatening to blow it up along with more than 100 hostages unless the authorities granted Armenian regional autonomy. Though French intervention allowed for a peaceful end to the incident, the Ottomans conducted a series of massacres.

In all, at least 80,000 Armenians were killed between 1894 and 1896.

... 'Ottoman logic' ...

I didn't know, until I read this, that the very word 'GENOCIDE', in our language, has its origin in what the Ottoman Empire had done !!

Are you proud of that, Farah ? H'mm .. ?

Perhaps you consider that because this ... GENOCIDE ... happened in your part of the world, it doesn't even qualify as 'criminal' ... ? It didn't happen in the West, after all. So, 'that's all OK', eh ?

Do you want to argue that all I've addressed in this post happened generations ago ? So what ? As someone, Farah, who's thought that alleged past misdeeds of the British Empire counted for something today, though that goes back HUNDREDS of years, you must also accept (& as an admirer of the Ottoman Empire) that the many thousands killed in Armenia is ALSO accountable, today ...

Anyway, I'm still waiting for your 'criminal East' thread. But, while I'm waiting ....

... how about answering Jim's questions ?

Farah

12-22-2018, 03:28 AM

Stop deflecting to avoid answering. I will simplify this even further for you...

Do you condemn Islam and those terrorists and the radicals who will support them and their agendas? Not ALL of Islam, but do you condemn ALL muslim terrorist and ALL muslim radicals who may support them in ANY manner?

You should reply my questions first.

US have killed about 20 million people after WWars. There re bout 500.000 people killed in Syria and includes ISIS results too.

If we call Bessar Esed as terrorists or ISIS as terrorist for these results, should we also call US as a big terrorist ? If yes, then are you all not also a terrorists for supporting these terrorism actions of your terror organization US ?

What makes a difference between bombing a bus station or bombing people with war planes ? Why one is called terrorist but other one is not ?

You avoid replying my questions.

High_Plains_Drifter

12-22-2018, 08:44 AM

You dont know anything other than insulting people.
And of course, you're too BRAIN WASHED and IGNORANT to see the GLARING, BLATANT, IRONY and HYPOCRISY of your statement above.

The first thing you did when you came here was INSULT AMERICA. What was it again, oh yeah, "THE CRIMINAL WEST" and all our WAR CRIMES, and to top it off, most of it is pure BULL SHIT.

And yes, I DO KNOW, YOU ARE A LITTLE MUSLIM SHIT STAIN. How do I know that? Because you live in a predominately MUSLIM NATION, and you absolutely REFUSE to answer a SINGLE ISSUE asked of you about islam, and you absolutely REFUSE to condemn MUSLIM TERRORISTS and RADICAL ISLAM. To put it bluntly, you refusing to condemn muslim terrorists ALONE speaks VOLUMES about WHO YOU ARE, and OBVIOUSLY who you are is a filthy little muslim BITCH. You got the typical TURKISH MUSLIM ARROGANCE and you think you're shit doesn't stink, as you LIE your nasty little shit stained ass off here.

I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire, I'd let your disgusting, America hating, muslim ass burn.

Fuck off and die.

Drummond

12-22-2018, 10:42 AM

You should reply my questions first.

US have killed about 20 million people after WWars. There re bout 500.000 people killed in Syria and includes ISIS results too.

If we call Bessar Esed as terrorists or ISIS as terrorist for these results, should we also call US as a big terrorist ? If yes, then are you all not also a terrorists for supporting these terrorism actions of your terror organization US ?

What makes a difference between bombing a bus station or bombing people with war planes ? Why one is called terrorist but other one is not ?

You avoid replying my questions.

Wars are usually conducted between nations. Of course, since the advent of Muslim terrorism, that's undergoing a change. A necessary change.

Was the West wrong to bomb terrorist training camps, in Afghanistan, after 9/11 ?

Is the West, by your reckoning, wrong to take military action against terrorist SCUM ? When it does so, it does that as a reaction to terrorist aggression. Anti-Muslim terrorist actions follow from 9/11, and Al Qaeda's murderous subhumanity.

... and you really need to be clear. Answer an earlier point of mine. Why would America attack those, according to you, it'd back ??

The West is right to counterattack against Muslim aggressions. Nobody on my side of the fence will consider that it's our duty to just 'take it all', never thinking to respond to terrorist murders and carnage.

But, heyy, by YOUR reckoning, there's no 'criminal East', the crimes committed by Middle Eastern terrorists are NOT crimes, but our responses, ARE.

Let me make this clear for you.

Muslim terrorist actions ARE criminal, and WILL BE responded to. When we respond, we defend against 'EASTERN' criminality. We are not 'criminals' for doing so.

Yes. Wars are messy, messy enough that innocent people may be caught up in them, and suffer or die. But we don't start them. If all Muslim terrorism disappeared tomorrow, the world would be a substantially safer and better place to live. People would live, where otherwise, they'll die.

Now. ANSWER JIM'S QUESTIONS.

While you're at it ... tell me that the Ottoman Empire, which you evidently admire, was 'justified' in being so murderous, so inhumane, that we, in our language, get the very word GENOCIDE FROM THAT !!!

Start a 'criminal East' thread, Farah, and watch it fill with posts, many if not most contributing links far more reputable and dependable than TWITTER could ever be !!

Drummond

12-22-2018, 11:07 AM

Supplementary question, Farah. Feel free to totally ignore it (.. though you don't need me to tell you that !!).

As a fan of, and adherent to, Islam ... tell me. How is it that Islam has a clear concept of something called JIHAD, and encourages it as a religious imperative ... when Christianity has no such equivalent ?

Isn't it a fact that Islam is a war-spawning creed, that this is fundamental to all it exists for ?

... which makes Islam, therefore, fundamentally EVIL.

Try proving otherwise.

How's that 'criminal East' thread coming along ? H'mm .. ??

Farah

12-22-2018, 12:10 PM

Okay thats enough, I will put anyone in my ignore list if I see one more personal comments about me. This is the last warning, I wont warn again. If I put you in ignore, you will stay there forever.

Black Diamond

12-22-2018, 12:18 PM

A Turkish Balu. :laugh:

Farah

12-22-2018, 12:56 PM

A Turkish Balu. :laugh:

You are in ignore list, I wont see your posts anymore, keep in mind.

Black Diamond

12-22-2018, 01:02 PM

You are in ignore list, I wont see your posts anymore, keep in mind.

Triggered Turk.

NightTrain

12-22-2018, 01:22 PM

Turkiye was first declared that Turkish Army will only operate along the border line and with maximum 24 miles depht. Yesterday President Erdogan said that Turkish Army will intervene anywhere in Syria that considered of being a terror zone. Turkiye also dont leave the parts that it steps in and settling there to ensure peace and justice. I think with each passing day Turkiye gets stronger, the World will meet again with the Ottoman logic more and more.

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

The depths of your ignorance are truly stunning, young Farah.

Your news and internet are censored by your dictator, and so you have no real idea of what is truly going on except what you're told by Erogodan and his muslim thugs. The civilized world knows this, but you don't because that information, too, is censored. But apparently you're not smart enough to figure this out even though you ARE aware that your dictator has arrested en masse every journalist that doesn't write what he wants them to write.

You live in a backwards country and have no technology or weapons except what countries like the USA and Russia allow you to have - and we don't let backwards, crappy little countries have decent hardware.

That means you have no options other than fighting other backwards crappy little countries like Syria or possibly Nigeria, which is why you crow about "kicking ass" against other muslim terrorists also armed with little more than rocks & sticks.

You "ottomans" are nothing more than savages trying to join the civilized world, but your very nature prevents that. Muzzies are not to be trusted -only bombed with our stealth bombers, stealth fighters and cruise missiles. That way you can wander around clearing rubble while we enjoy all the benefits of living in the greatest country in the world by every conceivable metric.

Merry Christmas!

Elessar

12-22-2018, 01:28 PM

Okay thats enough, I will put anyone in my ignore list if I see one more personal comments about me. This is the last warning, I wont warn again. If I put you in ignore, you will stay there forever.

If you do not like it here that much, why hang around?

You cannot spout your ignorant and one-way garbage without reprisal. A very wise member,
Drummond, has put you on the spot to discuss your rhetoric, but you still demand that YOUR
questions and accusations be answered.

Yet you will not answer ours. Go away little Jihadist.

Farah

12-22-2018, 03:24 PM

If you do not like it here that much, why hang around?

You cannot spout your ignorant and one-way garbage without reprisal. A very wise member,
@Drummond (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=2287), has put you on the spot to discuss your rhetoric, but you still demand that YOUR
questions and accusations be answered.

Yet you will not answer ours. Go away little Jihadist.

This post includes personal comments, you are in ignore list, keep in mind next time please, you wont receieve any replies anymore.

By the way I post here because I like to share facts and it motivates me more when I see someones are getting mad when they face with facts.

NightTrain

12-22-2018, 03:47 PM

This post includes personal comments, you are in ignore list, keep in mind next time please, you wont receieve any replies anymore.

Keep ignoring people and pretty soon you'll only be talking to Jim and I. But that's fine, too.

By the way I post here because I like to share facts and it motivates me more when I see someones are getting mad when they face with facts.

No one has gotten mad from your posting, my ignorant little muzzie. On the contrary - everyone has thus far laughed at your idiocy.