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View Full Version : Turkish president praises Venezuela’s leader in 1st visit



tailfins
12-12-2018, 10:22 PM
Far be it from me to second guess what's necessary to function given other countries dysfunctional circumstances. However, this is inexcusable. Venezuelans are suffering immeasurably. Any government that props up Nicolas Maduro is complicit in that suffering.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/turkish-president-praises-venezuelas-leader-in-1st-visit/2018/12/03/61c59be8-f73b-11e8-8642-c9718a256cbd_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8f5c0b798d52

Here's what he is propping up:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/mothers-children-pay-price-venezuelas-economic-collapse/



I
n the scorching heat, worried mothers clutch sick children who are presenting with a mix of maladies – fevers, convulsions, skin lesions and even acute malnutrition.
But this isn't a doctor's waiting room, it's the communal area of a migrant centre in Maicao, a dusty desert city in La Guajira, a region of northern Colombia close to the border with Venezuela.
Each day, dozens of people languish here, just a handful of the estimated three million migrants (https://www.iom.int/news/number-refugees-migrants-venezuela-reaches-3-million) who have fled Venezuela's long-running economic and political meltdown over the last few years.
The children are here and not in a doctor's office because Venezuelan migrants often don't have the papers to sign up to a Colombian insurer or the means to get to the main hospital which is more than 40 minutes walk out of town under the blazing sun.
Sadly, with the Venezuelan health system (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/venezuela/) short of medicine, supplies or trained staff, this is the next best alternative.
The starkest example of the failings of the two health systems is 38-year-old Luisa*. With 10 other children back in Venezuela, she made the hazardous cross-border journey to San Jose Hospital outside Maicao, on the Colombian side of the border to give birth.





Luisa and her baby son are both infected with syphilis CREDIT: GLENNA GORDON/SAVE THE CHILDREN



Speaking from her bed, just hours after the birth of her son, she told the Telegraph how both she and her baby are infected with syphilis, a sexually-transmitted infection (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sexually-transmitted-infections/)that can be treated with antibiotics.





If left untreated, it can be transmitted from mother to unborn child. Maicao has seen 31 pregnant Venezuelan women with syphilis and six babies born with the disease this year alone.
“I came here because I was pregnant and there was nothing in the hospitals in Venezuela, nothing,” she said.
The hospital's deputy director, Mabis Mercado Rua, says that failure to treat syphilis in a pregnant woman is a visible sign of how very few Venezuelans are receiving basic medical care.
Three years ago Venezuela stopped all its vaccination programmes and this, combined with malnutrition, means incidence of preventable diseases is increasing.
“Malnutrition is the mother of all other diseases,” says Ms Mercado Rua. “When children and mothers only have one or two meals a day, they are vulnerable to all other kinds of health problems.”







Ms Mercado Rua says the health district spent £1.7 million caring for Venezuelans alone in the last 12 months.
Each health district receives funding based on its population, with an emergency fund to cover any unexpected spike in patient numbers. In 2016 the hospital treated just 632 Venezuelan patients but in the first nine months of 2018 alone the hospital has seen 5190.
The hospital is not allowed to turn away emergency patients and is now facing its own financial problems as the fund does not cover all the extra patients.





“We were already in an economic crisis and now we are behind on staff payments and suppliers' bills because the government hasn’t allocated the resources we need,” says Ms Mercado Rua.
According to a September 2018 report (http://www.codevida.org/codevida/wp-content/uploads/Informe-Derecho-a-la-Salud-en-la-EHC-Venezuela-Codevida-Provea-septiembre-2018.pdf) from Codevida, a coalition of health NGOs based in Venezuela, in 2016 the Venezuelan government stopped paying for medicines for people with cancer, HIV and chronic diseases like multiple sclerosis, lupus and pulmonary hypertension.
The report found that 22 hospitals across Venezuela have shut their accident and emergency departments and a further 71 operate on an intermittent basis only.
This is on top of the 79 clinics that lack basic medical supplies. Worse still, estimates from the Venezuelan Medical Federation indicate that nearly 22,000 doctors fled the country between 2002 and 2017.














Venezuela's Migrant Crisis

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Leonardo Perez is one such doctor. A gynaecologist by training, he now works as a GP at the San Jose hospital in Maicao while he waits for his specialist accreditation to navigate Colombian bureaucracy.
Many Venezuelans are disappointed and angry when they arrive in Colombia because they feel their country provided free and high quality healthcare to Colombian migrants in the not-too-distant past.
Dr Perez said: "Ten years ago, we had the same level of health care in Venezuela, we could provide quality health care to everyone, including Colombians.





"[Venezuelans] are expecting the same level of care, for free, they used to receive in Venezuela, so they get upset when they get here and that's not the case."
In the dusty lanes of the Villa del Sur, at a sports facility turned migrant camp outside Riohacha, the capital of La Guajira, the desperate state of affairs is highlighted by Adrianna*, Javier* and their new baby Carolina*, who is just three months old.




The couple walked for nearly three weeks while Adrianna was eight months pregnant so she could escape the chaos of Venezuela's health system and give birth in Colombia.
She’s not alone. Hundreds of pregnant women or those who have recently given birth join her in the hospitals and clinics of La Guajira.
“The next night after giving birth, we were back living on the streets of Maicao," she said. “I slept only during the day because I was afraid someone would take my baby in the night.”
In the same camp, Maria* is keeping two of her children, Jorge*, 12 and Evalene*, eight, out of school for weeks because they both have hepatitis A and she cannot afford to treat them.
Elena Tiffert-Vaughan, humanitarian crisis response team leader in Colombia for UK children’s charity Save the Children (https://www.savethechildren.org/), says she has found pregnant women living on the streets.




Ms Tiffert-Vaughan adds: "More and more women are now crossing the border. There is absolutely nothing for them in Venezuela, the situation is dire."





Other foreign aid organisations are already on the ground, from the International Organization for Migration (https://www.iom.int/migration-health) to the Red Cross. At the old hospital campus, medical NGO Americares (https://www.americares.org/en/newsroom/news/2018/press/0712-colombia-medical-team-deployed/) is providing basic medical care, including the provision of medicines.
In the meantime, back at the migrant centre, the children make paper butterflies in the Save the Children safe space tent and are sheltered from harsher realities of their situation. For their parents, the hunt for work to pay for the medicine they need goes on.



*Names changed for safety reasons.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
12-13-2018, 07:02 AM
Far be it from me to second guess what's necessary to function given other countries dysfunctional circumstances. However, this is inexcusable. Venezuelans are suffering immeasurably. Any government that props up Nicolas Maduro is complicit in that suffering.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/turkish-president-praises-venezuelas-leader-in-1st-visit/2018/12/03/61c59be8-f73b-11e8-8642-c9718a256cbd_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8f5c0b798d52

Here's what he is propping up:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/mothers-children-pay-price-venezuelas-economic-collapse/
All the handy work of socialism, the same evil twin sister to the socialism/liberalism mix our dem party infects this nation with..
Death, starving, suffering means nothing to the followers of that kind of ideology.
All they care about is the pie in the sky -fantasy - they promote/ the paradise they insanely say will be if only the right people rule and advance their insanity. -Tyr

Farah
12-13-2018, 07:15 AM
As I said in another topic, US will want to take control of any "allies" of it and hates the ones that cant control, like Turkiye or Venezuela or Qatar and some others.


Turkiye will keep supporting Venezuela and any other countries in the World that oppressed. US tried a military coup in Venezuela as they tried recently in Turkiye (not first try of US in Turkiye's history) and in many other countries. US openly calls for such attempts through official ways. So does US cares about "democracy" or community welfare of Venezuelan people ? While they are perfectly OK with Saudi dictatorship ? Ofcourse no. US wants to take control of Venezuelan govt because Venezuela has much more oil reserves than Saudi Arabia and they also have a huge golden reserve. For example an oil tanker goes from ME to US in months, while it can go from Venezuela in a few days. The former president of Venezuela kick any US energy companies out of Venezuela, changes the laws in accordance with nationalization, he died in 2013 and US hates him soo much, US tried to stop him with coups, assassination attempts and economic embargos as they do to any other "allies" that they cant control. Current president of Venezuela follows the same path with former president and he experiences the same attacks done to former president. Today US keeps enforcing economic embargos on Venezuela and trying to encourage ignorant people to riot against their president. Now Venezuela has been agreed with China about oil sales and will do it based on Chinese Yuan.

Drummond
12-13-2018, 07:57 AM
As I said in another topic, US will want to take control of any "allies" of it and hates the ones that cant control, like Turkiye or Venezuela or Qatar and some others.


Turkiye will keep supporting Venezuela and any other countries in the World that oppressed. US tried a military coup in Venezuela as they tried recently in Turkiye (not first try of US in Turkiye's history) and in many other countries. US openly calls for such attempts through official ways. So does US cares about "democracy" or community welfare of Venezuelan people ? While they are perfectly OK with Saudi dictatorship ? Ofcourse no. US wants to take control of Venezuelan govt because Venezuela has much more oil reserves than Saudi Arabia and they also have a huge golden reserve. For example an oil tanker goes from ME to US in months, while it can go from Venezuela in a few days. The former president of Venezuela kick any US energy companies out of Venezuela, changes the laws in accordance with nationalization, he died in 2013 and US hates him soo much, US tried to stop him with coups, assassination attempts and economic embargos as they do to any other "allies" that they cant control. Current president of Venezuela follows the same path with former president and he experiences the same attacks done to former president. Today US keeps enforcing economic embargos on Venezuela and trying to encourage ignorant people to riot against their president. Now Venezuela has been agreed with China about oil sales and will do it based on Chinese Yuan.

If the US really did try a military coup in Venezuela, I for one wouldn't blame them. Venezuela remains infested with the consequences of Socialism, and we've seen a description of what it's led to.

Farah says Turkey will 'keep supporting Venezuela'. Perhaps she'll explain just who it is in Venezuela Turkey IS keen to support ? Is it a matter of maintaining the status quo in Venezuela .. suffering included ??

Perhaps Farah will take heart from this:

https://nypost.com/2018/08/05/maduro-calls-on-trump-to-fight-suspects-behind-alleged-assassination-attempt/


Hours after dodging an apparent assassination attempt, Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro called on President Trump to help him fight the terrorists he believes are behind the attack.

“This was an attempt to kill me,” Maduro said in a televised address hours after Saturday’s attack. “Today they attempted to assassinate me.”

He called on the Trump administration to “fight the terrorist groups that commit attacks in peaceful countries in our continent, in this case, Venezuela.”

Maduro doesn't seem to agree with Farah's assessment.

Perhaps Farah has fallen victim to anti-American propaganda ? H'mm .. ?

This might also be of interest:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36815476


It looks as if the coup attempt of 15 July was staged mainly by the gendarmerie and air force personnel.

Key parts of the military fiercely condemned the coup attempt. The chief of the armed forces and two generals from the naval forces were reportedly taken hostage by the junta.

There are several theories as to who was behind this failed coup attempt.

One theory suggests it was a "false flag" event staged by President Erdogan to gain more power, but common sense dictates the event went too far to be a false flag.

Another theory embraced by the Kurdish movement is that Kemalists - secular followers of the founder of modern Turkey, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk - in the army tricked the Gulenists into staging a coup. They knew it would fail and that it would lead to a long-awaited cleansing of Gulenists from the military.

Another theory stems from a police source, who said that the AKP government had been planning to arrest Gulen-supporting army officials on 16 July. The source claims that when the coup-plotters learned about this, they went ahead and initiated the coup earlier than planned - hence the sloppiness.

President Erdogan and his ministers blame the Gulen movement for the coup, and say that this attempt is the group's last gasp.

Nothing is certain for now, but a military coup would be the last thing Turkey needs while it is struggling with the spill-over of the Syrian War, the threat of the Islamic State group, and the Kurdish insurgency.

I didn't see mention of all this being the US's fault, Farah, in any of this BBC report. Yet you seem keen to lay blame and responsibility at the door of the US.

Are you open to the possibility, Farah, that you've been massively misled by anti-American propagandists ? Or are you determined to believe that YOU are the arbiter of what's true, this in the face of reports which defy your stated beliefs ?

Farah
12-13-2018, 09:07 AM
If the US really did try a military coup in Venezuela, I for one wouldn't blame them. Venezuela remains infested with the consequences of Socialism, and we've seen a description of what it's led to.

Farah says Turkey will 'keep supporting Venezuela'. Perhaps she'll explain just who it is in Venezuela Turkey IS keen to support ? Is it a matter of maintaining the status quo in Venezuela .. suffering included ??

Perhaps Farah will take heart from this:

https://nypost.com/2018/08/05/maduro-calls-on-trump-to-fight-suspects-behind-alleged-assassination-attempt/



Maduro doesn't seem to agree with Farah's assessment.

Perhaps Farah has fallen victim to anti-American propaganda ? H'mm .. ?

This might also be of interest:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36815476


I think his statement requires some intelligence. He simply makes fun of US govt because he know US behind it and they will never accept to find promoters and supporters of the coup attempt.




I didn't see mention of all this being the US's fault, Farah, in any of this BBC report. Yet you seem keen to lay blame and responsibility at the door of the US.

Are you open to the possibility, Farah, that you've been massively misled by anti-American propagandists ? Or are you determined to believe that YOU are the arbiter of what's true, this in the face of reports which defy your stated beliefs ?


Western people are living in a complately isolated pink World with zero real information flow. Your perspective and mindset is complately formed with lies of your govt and govt controlled media. If you are open minded enough and have a courage to face with some facts (probably you dont, I know from my first topic), you can find millions of sources on the internet that will show you the face of the real World.

Drummond
12-13-2018, 11:43 AM
I think his statement requires some intelligence. He simply makes fun of US govt because he know US behind it and they will never accept to find promoters and supporters of the coup attempt.

That's your interpretation (or maybe one you've had fed to you ?). I see nothing substantive in your statement.

Kindly prove that your interpretation has substance to it.


Western people are living in a complately isolated pink World with zero real information flow. Your perspective and mindset is complately formed with lies of your govt and govt controlled media. If you are open minded enough and have a courage to face with some facts (probably you dont, I know from my first topic), you can find millions of sources on the internet that will show you the face of the real World.

Oh, really ?

What censorship do Western societies exercise against the flow of information ? To us (for example) ANY curbs on free Internet access are a big deal, whenever they're so much as proposed. Most people in my part of the world are particularly 'intolerant' of any suggestion of control of information being exercised.

This truth itself defies what you'd suggest.

As for Turkey .....

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/06/world/europe/turkey-internet-curbs-approved.html


Parliament approved legislation on Wednesday allowing Turkey’s telecommunications authority to block websites without a prior court decision. The legislation also would force Internet providers to keep records on Web users’ activities for two years and make them available to authorities when requested, without notifying the users. The measures are part of a package of legislation, the rest of which is expected to be approved by Parliament on Thursday and signed into law by the president.

https://phys.org/news/2014-02-alarm-big-brother-turkish-internet.html


Turkey drew fire Thursday over new Internet curbs portrayed as protecting privacy and the young but which critics say will stifle free speech and accelerate a slide towards authoritarianism.

The government has defended the measures but in Brussels, European Commission spokesman Peter Stano said the curbs in the aspiring EU member, including the blocking of webpages without a court order, raised "serious concerns" and need to be revised.

European Parliament chief Martin Schultz called it a "step back in an already suffocating environment for media freedom", while EU Enlargement Commissioner Stefan Fule said that Turkey needed "more transparency and information, not restriction".

We have a saying. 'People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones'.

Farah, WE are the people whose Internet freedoms are far wider, far less curtailed, than YOURS. You see, we in the West value truth. But societies needing to exercise draconian restrictions upon information flow are those being run by people who have an agenda. That agenda - very obviously - is to control just what people may, or may not, be permitted to believe.

Your assertions about our so-called 'zero information flow' and the 'isolated' nature of our societies is just pure, unadulterated rot. It is YOURS which is far more open to, far more deserving of, just such an assertion.

Do you see that, Farah ?

Or, do you just prefer not to ?

H'mm .. ?

tailfins
12-13-2018, 02:51 PM
As I said in another topic, US will want to take control of any "allies" of it and hates the ones that cant control, like Turkiye or Venezuela or Qatar and some others.


Turkiye will keep supporting Venezuela and any other countries in the World that oppressed. US tried a military coup in Venezuela as they tried recently in Turkiye (not first try of US in Turkiye's history) and in many other countries. US openly calls for such attempts through official ways. So does US cares about "democracy" or community welfare of Venezuelan people ? While they are perfectly OK with Saudi dictatorship ? Ofcourse no. US wants to take control of Venezuelan govt because Venezuela has much more oil reserves than Saudi Arabia and they also have a huge golden reserve. For example an oil tanker goes from ME to US in months, while it can go from Venezuela in a few days. The former president of Venezuela kick any US energy companies out of Venezuela, changes the laws in accordance with nationalization, he died in 2013 and US hates him soo much, US tried to stop him with coups, assassination attempts and economic embargos as they do to any other "allies" that they cant control. Current president of Venezuela follows the same path with former president and he experiences the same attacks done to former president. Today US keeps enforcing economic embargos on Venezuela and trying to encourage ignorant people to riot against their president. Now Venezuela has been agreed with China about oil sales and will do it based on Chinese Yuan.


Venezuela is a colony of Cuba. It is being bled dry to feed the parasitic Communists stay in power. Sometimes one can adapt to a dictatorship, but Maduro has practically declared war on his own people. I'm not even going to complain about total lack of political freedom. Life in Venezuela is miserable by any standard. The near total shutdown of the country is from competent people being fired from working companies and replaced by political cronies that have no idea how to make the company work. Maduro and Chavez before him would walk down streets, point at a company and command "expropriate it". I presume life in Turkey is still functional. Life is not functional in Venezuela. Anyone who assists Maduro is complicit in crimes against humanity. Support for Nicolas Maduro is indefensible.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOjvJAfIMSI

tailfins
12-13-2018, 02:53 PM
That's your interpretation (or maybe one you've had fed to you ?). I see nothing substantive in your statement.

Kindly prove that your interpretation has substance to it.



Oh, really ?

What censorship do Western societies exercise against the flow of information ? To us (for example) ANY curbs on free Internet access are a big deal, whenever they're so much as proposed. Most people in my part of the world are particularly 'intolerant' of any suggestion of control of information being exercised.

This truth itself defies what you'd suggest.

As for Turkey .....

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/06/world/europe/turkey-internet-curbs-approved.html



https://phys.org/news/2014-02-alarm-big-brother-turkish-internet.html



We have a saying. 'People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones'.

Farah, WE are the people whose Internet freedoms are far wider, far less curtailed, than YOURS. You see, we in the West value truth. But societies needing to exercise draconian restrictions upon information flow are those being run by people who have an agenda. That agenda - very obviously - is to control just what people may, or may not, be permitted to believe.

Your assertions about our so-called 'zero information flow' and the 'isolated' nature of our societies is just pure, unadulterated rot. It is YOURS which is far more open to, far more deserving of, just such an assertion.

Do you see that, Farah ?

Or, do you just prefer not to ?

H'mm .. ?

It's the bed she chooses to sleep in. I'm glad she's happy with it.

Drummond
12-13-2018, 04:16 PM
It's the bed she chooses to sleep in. I'm glad she's happy with it.

Indeed.

Still, I'd rather her mind was open enough to absorb something of the wider truths this site can provide her with.

[I won't be holding my breath on that, though !!!].

del
12-13-2018, 10:35 PM
trump loves him some ertogan



https://thehill.com/sites/default/files/styles/thumb_small_article/public/trumperdogan_051617screengrab.jpg?itok=HXYkyLVk

President Trump (https://thehill.com/people/donald-trump) on Thursday hailed the close relationship formed with his Turkish counterpart, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, during a bilateral meeting in New York.
"We have a great friendship, as countries and I think we're right now as close as we've ever been," Trump said, according to pool reports. His comments come a day after delivering his first address before the United Nations General Assembly.

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/351791-trump-praises-erdogan-hes-become-a-close-friend

y'all better get with the program

Drummond
12-14-2018, 12:03 AM
trump loves him some ertogan



https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/351791-trump-praises-erdogan-hes-become-a-close-friend

y'all better get with the program

Well, now, Farah must be overjoyed !

If being on good terms with President Trump is good enough for Erdogan, surely, Farah can find it within herself to think the occasional good and friendly thought towards America !!

How about that, Farah ? Care to moderate your beliefs ... even a little ?:popcorn:

Gunny
12-14-2018, 09:50 AM
As I said in another topic, US will want to take control of any "allies" of it and hates the ones that cant control, like Turkiye or Venezuela or Qatar and some others.


Turkiye will keep supporting Venezuela and any other countries in the World that oppressed. US tried a military coup in Venezuela as they tried recently in Turkiye (not first try of US in Turkiye's history) and in many other countries. US openly calls for such attempts through official ways. So does US cares about "democracy" or community welfare of Venezuelan people ? While they are perfectly OK with Saudi dictatorship ? Ofcourse no. US wants to take control of Venezuelan govt because Venezuela has much more oil reserves than Saudi Arabia and they also have a huge golden reserve. For example an oil tanker goes from ME to US in months, while it can go from Venezuela in a few days. The former president of Venezuela kick any US energy companies out of Venezuela, changes the laws in accordance with nationalization, he died in 2013 and US hates him soo much, US tried to stop him with coups, assassination attempts and economic embargos as they do to any other "allies" that they cant control. Current president of Venezuela follows the same path with former president and he experiences the same attacks done to former president. Today US keeps enforcing economic embargos on Venezuela and trying to encourage ignorant people to riot against their president. Now Venezuela has been agreed with China about oil sales and will do it based on Chinese Yuan.Venezuela is oppressed because of the Government of Venezuela. No other reason.