Stop paying congress members

[jimnyc]

How many think this shutdown would be long over had their pay been cut just like every other government employee?

But getting paid, they couldn't care less how long they get to sit back and get paid, instead of working together and finding a medium somehow.

They have already stated it's not the money..... so approve the $5 billion and come to an agreement on a "fence" - but it's got to be 100% enhanced and cannot be climbed. a mixture of fence, barbed wire, depth and height, sensors, cameras and border agents. Perhaps even the drones they approved in the past as well. Everyone is happy and employees start getting paid again. I can live with that.

But I believe, IMO, that the Dems would still push for less. Anything that doesn't allow for illegals to easily sneak in - in their minds costs them votes.

[Noir]

How quickly would it be over if everyone who was not being paid to work actually didn’t go to work?

[jimnyc]

How quickly would it be over if everyone who was not being paid to work actually didn’t go to work?

I'm confident certain sectors would instantly find some funding, like the TSA for example. :laugh:

But if they were to refuse work, trust me, they would find others quickly willing to work and wait on a paycheck, knowing this is the longest shutdown ever and likely to end sooner than later. And some are offering incentives to those coming in to work now, to make it worth their while.

As an example, kinda like the teachers strike out in LA right now. They WILL find what they refer to as the "scabs" with every shutdown, as folks are even willing to have shit tossed at their cars and be called all kinds of inexcusable names - because then they ultimately get some $ and perhaps even ultimately a job.

But the TSA all not coming in would be quite harmful and likely lead to airline shutdowns - and likely a quick changeover to professional but private security - costing someone a fortune! No easy answers to certain government funded areas not currently receiving said funding. And it might very well come down to one of those being what causes this shutdown to come to a halt.

[Noir]

I'm confident certain sectors would instantly find some funding, like the TSA for example. :laugh:

But if they were to refuse work, trust me, they would find others quickly willing to work and wait on a paycheck, knowing this is the longest shutdown ever and likely to end sooner than later. And some are offering incentives to those coming in to work now, to make it worth their while.

As an example, kinda like the teachers strike out in LA right now. They WILL find what they refer to as the "scabs" with every shutdown, as folks are even willing to have shit tossed at their cars and be called all kinds of inexcusable names - because then they ultimately get some $ and perhaps even ultimately a job.

But the TSA all not coming in would be quite harmful and likely lead to airline shutdowns - and likely a quick changeover to professional but private security - costing someone a fortune! No easy answers to certain government funded areas not currently receiving said funding. And it might very well come down to one of those being what causes this shutdown to come to a halt.

So the workers can end the shutdown - or they can wait for their government to do so - already a month in, it’ll be interesting to see how much longer people are willing to be held out to dry for their government.

[Elessar]

Some people working unpaid, such as the Coast Guard, Border Patrol, and TSA - sign oaths and contracts
and to refuse to work could cause them to face various charges (in the case of the Coast Guard) or termination.

[jimnyc]

So the workers can end the shutdown - or they can wait for their government to do so - already a month in, it’ll be interesting to see how much longer people are willing to be held out to dry for their government.

No, I didn't say they would end the shutdown. But it COULD. I don't know how things for sure would be affected if ALL of the TSA members were to bail instantly. I'm sure there would be some serious delays. They could get replacements almost instantly, that much is guaranteed, but they would still need to be trained. And yeah, putting air travel to a stand still could have some serious consequences. I honestly don't know what would happen.

Perhaps they would still run on the bare minimum that they do have, resulting in the delays and cancellations, while they bring new employees up to speed. Yups, it would be a nightmare, and hopefully one to be avoided!

And then yeps, you have like Elessar pointed out, many simply dedicated and knowing they are getting their money eventually, and hopefully.

I do agree it sucks to be hung out as such, and doesn't make it much better "knowing" going in that this is a possibility. Folks need the money to live on. I truly feel for them, hence me stating that they should COMPROMISE and quickly. Congress, Schumer and others have already stated that it's not about the money. They have already been on record stating that they don't have an issue with "fencing" and increasing all the details I mentioned: more agents, more cameras, more technology, drones, sensors... everything minus a wall, whether that be solid steel or slated. But they should compromise NOW on the very things that everyone as agreed upon. And if they go backwards on what they are already on record as supporting? Then we, unfortunately, will know it's more about politics and less about actual security for our country. I know I would be willing to compromise to make everyone happy & to get folks back to working.

[Gunny]

Some people working unpaid, such as the Coast Guard, Border Patrol, and TSA - sign oaths and contracts
and to refuse to work could cause them to face various charges (in the case of the Coast Guard) or termination.Yeah. I don't recall "choice" ever being an option :)

[Elessar]

Yeah. I don't recall "choice" ever being an option :)

I worked through a few 'shut-downs' or looming ones during the Obama administration.
The position I had was deemed critical, so being furloughed was not going to happen.

[aboutime]

Unfortunately for you, and your question. Rather than instantly going on strike, or staying home as many European nations....Like France, have seen.

We have Honorable, Caring, Patriotic people working for our government who PLACE their NATION, and our PEOPLE ahead of their OWN selfishness.

Do you remember when Ronald Reagan FIRED all of the AIR TRAFFIC Control People? Maybe you weren't even born then? Unionized workers are not immune to Dishonorable Service. But those Americans who took and oath, to defend our Nation....have no intention of Selling Their Nation Down Any River.

Besides...All of the Furloughed government workers know.....THEY WILL GET PAID. The press and Nancy Pelosi are just using Typical Liberal, Democrat Scare tactics because they HATE TRUMP, more than they care for Americans.
https://www.politico.com/story/2008/08/reagan-fires-11-000-striking-air-traffic-controllers-aug-5-1981-012292

[Noir]

Some people working unpaid, such as the Coast Guard, Border Patrol, and TSA - sign oaths and contracts
and to refuse to work could cause them to face various charges (in the case of the Coast Guard) or termination.

Do those contracts say that they will be paid for their work?

[aboutime]

Do those contracts say that they will be paid for their work?


Those Government workers WILL GET PAID. Their contracts are Holding Up Their Hand, and SWEARING to follow, obey, support, and defend, the Constitution of the United States, and the Commander In Chief. (President). Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Matter of factly...Government Workers, Military, Police, Fire, and Other Services; have NO STRIKE, NO WALKOUT Clauses in those "CONTRACTS" you know nothing about.

How do I know. How bout 30 years as a Government Employee? Me.?

By the way. In the Military. If you walk out for any reason. YOU END UP LOCKED UP, Busted, and Out of a Job eventually.

[Elessar]

Do those contracts say that they will be paid for their work?

They do indeed, and it is done regularly as shown under Obama's Gov't halts.

[Noir]

Congress, Schumer and others have already stated that it's not about the money. They have already been on record stating that they don't have an issue with "fencing" and increasing all the details I mentioned: more agents, more cameras, more technology, drones, sensors... everything minus a wall, whether that be solid steel or slated.

And is trump happy with that option?


Unfortunately for you, and your question. Rather than instantly going on strike, or staying home as many European nations....Like France, have seen.

We have Honorable, Caring, Patriotic people working for our government who PLACE their NATION, and our PEOPLE ahead of their OWN selfishness.

Ah yes, because honor and patriotism pay the bills, as more and more people climb into debt and fall behind on due payments.

[Elessar]

Ah yes, because honor and patriotism pay the bills, as more and more people climb into debt and fall behind on due payments.

You obviously know NOTHING and just fling out these opinions because YOU have not experienced anything of note.

[Elessar]

My bank, a Federal Credit Union, has offered 0% Interest loans to all USCG members and
qualifying non-members to assist during this shut down.

[aboutime]

And is trump happy with that option?



Ah yes, because honor and patriotism pay the bills, as more and more people climb into debt and fall behind on due payments.

As if you really cared. You should investigate the REAL, TRUE facts about all of those POOR GOVERNMENT WORKERS, who live from paycheck to paycheck.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/moneytips/federal-employees-earn-50_b_8855508.html
Federal Employees Earn 50% More Than The Private Workforce
12/21/2015 03:21 pm ET Updated Dec 06, 2017

So...making 100K a year is such a terrible thing, they should be considered POOR?

Only the Uninformed know how to repeat LIBERAL LIES. Thanks for that Noir.
Unfortunately for you. I DEAL WITH HONEST, VERIFIED FACTS.

[Gunny]

My bank, a Federal Credit Union, has offered 0% Interest loans to all USCG members and
qualifying non-members to assist during this shut down.Navy Fed usually does the same. I can recall back in the early 80s them paying us when Congress didn't. I think that was the year President Reagan put an end to that crap. Wonder why it's different now?

[High_Plains_Drifter]

This PARTIAL government shut down has a silver lining. After 30 days P. Trump can "trim the fat," so to speak, and permanently shut down a myriad of government agencies and offices that are really nothing more than parasites.

Our government is overgrown and bloated, a trimming would it a world of good.

[Gunny]

This PARTIAL government shut down has a silver lining. After 30 days P. Trump can "trim the fat," so to speak, and permanently shut down a myriad of government agencies and offices that are really nothing more than parasites.

Our government is overgrown and bloated, a trimming would it a world of good.How is that?

[High_Plains_Drifter]

How is that?

Has President Trump suckered Democrats and the Deep State into a trap that will enable a radical downsizing of the federal bureaucracy?

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/01/trumps_shutdown_trap.html

[Gunny]

Has President Trump suckered Democrats and the Deep State into a trap that will enable a radical downsizing of the federal bureaucracy?

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/01/trumps_shutdown_trap.htmlAnswer: No. Looks good on paper. Now for the "Paul Harvey" ...

You think Trump can just fire the ghost in the machine known as the "bureaucracy", "Deep State", whatever ...? Good luck. Read the fine print. Trump may very well have the power to get rid of some jobs/positions. What he CAN'T get rid of is the people. You can't just "fire" a US Government employee. It requires enough time and effort that most people don't even try. Months of corroborated, documented incidences with formal written counseling which the most mediocre shitbag with a lawyer can get over on.

If the President does away with the jobs, he STILL has to provide for the people who hold them. Meaning other government jobs of equal pay if not position. They get put on Civil Service "have to hire" lists which bumps them ahead of other applicants for jobs. If they have to be retrained and/or relocated it's on the government's (taxpayer) dime.

And they've had a couple of centuries to sink their tentacles DEEP. Our elected officials are renters in DC. These people are the home owners and they don't go quietly and they have gamed the rules so well they make labor union "good ol' boy" networks look like kindergarten crap.

[Gunny]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WwspUFAxlM
High_Plains_Drifter This guest's commentary reinforces my previous statement.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WwspUFAxlM
@High_Plains_Drifter (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=3558) This guest's commentary reinforces my previous statement.
Yeah I heard Rush talking about it and actually didn't hear it all, but that just blows. Nobody should be above being fired, and if it's truly that hard to trim down the size of government, then we really are fucked.

[Gunny]

Yeah I heard Rush talking about it and actually didn't hear it all, but that just blows. Nobody should be above being fired, and if it's truly that hard to trim down the size of government, then we really are fucked.That would be why those of us that had the misfortune of seeing it firsthand, in action have been repeatedly saying you aren't going to beat the bureaucracy. It IS the power in DC. They make their own rules and they aren't about to let anyone upset their apple cart.

This whole Russia Collusion thing is the result of the President, a transient, fucking with the apple cart. He's got 4-8 years invested in this then he's gone and another one comes in. These people are born and die in the Civil Service. You're talking about their lives. In DC, most of them are Democrats and black. You can't even call one lazy without the race card being pulled. Even if they are in fact lazy.

The career politicians don't mess with the apple cart. They'll be gone. Some bad media leaks here and there to the "right" (CNN, MSNBC, farah) people and they're done. And they are cronies from Hell. You apply for a CS job in DC and odds are REAL good the paper drill announcing the opening is just a formality as someone already has the "hook up" from the inside. Even if you're more qualified.

And you DON'T fuck with black, female CS workers. There IS no place to hide from them :laugh: