Woman Gives Birth in McDonald's Restroom, Tries to Flush Baby Down Toilet

[-Cp]

She needs to be shot... and that baby given to a loving family...

Could you ever imagine being this child then someday researching the news archives and finding this story? OMG - how sad...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,295063,00.html

[avatar4321]

i just cant imagine this.

how on earth do you not realize you are pregnant? I mean shouldnt the fact that you are getting really big and not menstrating give it away?

[Angel Heart]

My guess is that she's extremely over weight. She might not of been having periods or very irregular periods. The movement she could of thought it was indigestion. She wasn't full term. The baby is very lucky and I don't think it should go back to her. Even if she didn't know she was pregnant, she shouldn't of tried to flush him. BUT..... I also know that in desperate situations people do some fucked up things that make no sense at all.

[PostmodernProphet]

the church I go to helps support an orphanage in Lesotho, Africa called Beautiful Gate.....Lesotho has a life expectancy of around 34, an average annual income of $300, and an HIV rate over 50%.....unlike some of the charities you see on TV, you don't sign up to support a child for $30 a month, you sign up to support a bed.....because the kids don't always last long enough.....

I mention this because, while occasionally the kids that they get come from hospitals or are brought in by surviving family members who can't care for them, they frequently are brought children found along the roadside or fished out of a latrine.

If you live in a land where violent death is commonplace, life becomes meaningless.....


by the way, I know the people who run this place.....if you are looking for a charity where 100% of your donation goes for the purpose intended, check it out.....

https://www.givengain.com/cgi-bin/giga.cgi?cmd=cause_dir_news_item&cause_id=274&news_id=1633

[LiberalNation]

She needs to be shot......
SHot no, you have no idea what she was going thru. She wasn't in her right mind.

[glockmail]

This is sick. Especially the heart-bleed liberal response. :puke:

[avatar4321]

SHot no, you have no idea what she was going thru. She wasn't in her right mind.

did you ever think that she may have just been a very bad woman?

[darin]

SHot no, you have no idea what she was going thru. She wasn't in her right mind.

With apologies to the Once-VERY-VERY HOT (until she married placenta-eater Cruise) Katey Holmes, in the Hit movie Batman Begins:

It's not who she is deep down inside that defines her, it's what she does.

[avatar4321]

With apologies to the Once-VERY-VERY HOT (until she married placenta-eater Cruise) Katey Holmes, in the Hit movie Batman Begins:

It's not who she is deep down inside that defines her, it's what she does.

i love that line

[LiberalNation]

did you ever think that she may have just been a very bad woman?
it's possible but I can also see going thru a delievery you weren't expecting by yourself in a bathroom could make anyone go a little out of there minds and do something they may later regret.

[darin]

You assume she really didn't know she was pregnant? People are put in jail for this type of child abuse often. This woman is a criminal.

[LiberalNation]

She said she didn't know she was I believe denial can work wonders. A girl my mom knew, who was also very overweight denied she was pregnant untill she finally went into labor at the office and still claimed it was something else until the birth actually took place.

You go thru the pain of labor an delivery with no help and see what kind of mental shape you are in.

[darin]

She said she didn't know she was I believe denial can work wonders. A girl my mom knew, who was also very overweight denied she was pregnant untill she finally went into labor at the office and still claimed it was something else until the birth actually took place.

You go thru the pain of labor an delivery with no help and see what kind of mental shape you are in.


Okay. Sure. I've been kicked in the nuts, had stitches my TONGUE, stood on a weight-bench and fell, having the bar-holder-place hit me square in the crotch - I've had thick needles shoved into the sides of my heels, thru the meat and into a 5-times-over-swollen tendon, AND had a cotton-swab shoved down my urethra - and through it all NEVER had ANY desire to attempt to flush a BABY down the toilet.

The mental shape she was in? Doesn't matter. She tried to KILL a human. Put her away. For the rest of her life if need be.

:-/

[jimnyc]

SHot no, you have no idea what she was going thru. She wasn't in her right mind.

Give her a psychological evaluation. If she was of sound mind - shoot her. If she had a mental moment - remove her brain.

[Abbey Marie]

She said she didn't know she was I believe denial can work wonders. A girl my mom knew, who was also very overweight denied she was pregnant untill she finally went into labor at the office and still claimed it was something else until the birth actually took place.

You go thru the pain of labor an delivery with no help and see what kind of mental shape you are in.

Sounds like it couldn't have been a very long or difficult labor, though.

[KarlMarx]

This just reminds me of all the arguments given for abortion....

among them... "at least the babies will be WANTED"....

that argument rings empty now... doesn't it?

[LiberalNation]

Prolly not, wonder if she had it on the toilet or floor. Or if she has had previous childeren.

[Angel Heart]

Give her a psychological evaluation. If she was of sound mind - shoot her. If she had a mental moment - remove her brain.

She clearly didn't have sound mind.

[Angel Heart]

This just reminds me of all the arguments given for abortion....

among them... "at least the babies will be WANTED"....

that argument rings empty now... doesn't it?

Yup. Why is it that child abuse is at higher levels after legalisation than before?

[jimnyc]

She clearly didn't have sound mind.

Well, I say "bye bye brains" then!

[Angel Heart]

She said she didn't know she was I believe denial can work wonders. A girl my mom knew, who was also very overweight denied she was pregnant untill she finally went into labor at the office and still claimed it was something else until the birth actually took place.

You go thru the pain of labor an delivery with no help and see what kind of mental shape you are in.

I know several that have done it unassisted in any way from the hospitals. Labor isn't a medical emergency. It's something very natural and can happen with out Dr's or support.

[LiberalNation]

Of course it can, so can a lot of other things but medical support does make them go smoother and with less risk of mother an child dying.

[Guernicaa]

did you ever think that she may have just been a very bad woman?
Did you ever think that she may have just had a lot of mental issues that are beyond your capacity to understand?
Either way, do you agree with the retard who started this thread that she should be shot? Because I'm sure thats what Jesus would have done right?

[jimnyc]

Did you ever think that she may have just had a lot of mental issues that are beyond your capacity to understand?
Either way, do you agree with the retard who started this thread that she should be shot? Because I'm sure thats what Jesus would have done right?

An eye for an eye works for me. Anything done to her would be better than being flushed down a toilet.

[darin]

Did you ever think that she may have just had a lot of mental issues that are beyond your capacity to understand?
Either way, do you agree with the retard who started this thread that she should be shot? Because I'm sure thats what Jesus would have done right?

You've got SERIOUS Balls invoking Jesus when you know nothing of Him.

(shrug)

Jesus is about Love and redemption, AND justice.

[truthmatters]

You've got SERIOUS Balls invoking Jesus when you know nothing of Him.

(shrug)

Jesus is about Love and redemption, AND justice.

Your right Jesus was about love and forgiveness too.

He would have found many of your opinions well off base off his philosophies.

[truthmatters]

it's possible but I can also see going thru a delievery you weren't expecting by yourself in a bathroom could make anyone go a little out of there minds and do something they may later regret.


Not to mention maybe the child was not breathing and maybe she tought it was dead?

I now I know I will take slings and arrows for that suposition but untill you have all the facts its rash to deside without them.

It seems to be a popular thing to do for some seeig how our government is run these days.

We are in a war right now that if America had the facts on before hand the people would have not backed.

[PostmodernProphet]

This woman is a criminal.


its possible she was just incredibly stupid....she was working at McDonalds, you know......remember, the people you meet at the counter are the SMART ones.......

[Angel Heart]

Of course it can, so can a lot of other things but medical support does make them go smoother and with less risk of mother an child dying.

:lol: I can show you studies that say otherwise. It doesn't make it go smoother and most time slows down labor.

I can tell you're a) young and b) inexperneced in childbirth.

Read up about homebirth for starters: http://www.gentlebirth.org/ronnie/homesafe.html

[darin]

Your right Jesus was about love and forgiveness too.

He would have found many of your opinions well off base off his philosophies.

Awesome for taking a pot-shot at me, while I was 'talking' to somebody else!! Good for YOU! I KNOW that makes your day!

[LiberalNation]

:lol: I can show you studies that say otherwise. It doesn't make it go smoother and most time slows down labor.
Most docs induce now for the delivery to happen at a convientent time and I think a pain shot in the back would make you think things were a lot smoother even if time wise someone could say it wasn't.

[LiberalNation]

Awesome for taking a pot-shot at me, while I was 'talking' to somebody else!! Good for YOU! I KNOW that makes your day!
Well would jesus shoot a mentally ill woman or would he not.

[truthmatters]

Awesome for taking a pot-shot at me, while I was 'talking' to somebody else!! Good for YOU! I KNOW that makes your day!


We are all talking to each other and I have seen many other people remark on what people are saying to each other.

[Trigg]

Most docs induce now for the delivery to happen at a convientent time and I think a pain shot in the back would make you think things were a lot smoother even if time wise someone could say it wasn't.

YOu have no idea what you are talking about here, since you have never given birth.

Natural childbirth can go very smoothly. I know.

Inducing delivery can be very painful because of the pedocin injected by IV to start hard contractions. It can and does slow down delivery because the woman is in more pain and is unable to relax between contractions. This is why woman who are induced are more prone to epidurals. Which, by the way, also slow down delivery because the woman can't feel what is happening and has a harder time pushing.

[Trigg]

She needs to be shot... and that baby given to a loving family...

Could you ever imagine being this child then someday researching the news archives and finding this story? OMG - how sad...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,295063,00.html

Thank goodness the baby was fine. Now, hopefully it will not be placed back with the mother.

[LiberalNation]

Natural childbirth can go very smoothly. I know.
Or it could go terribly wrong depending on cirucmstances. Woman have given birth naturally for ages and many of them died in the process.


Inducing delivery can be very painful because of the pedocin injected by IV to start hard contractions. It can and does slow down delivery because the woman is in more pain and is unable to relax between contractions. This is why woman who are induced are more prone to epidurals. Which, by the way, also slow down delivery because the woman can't feel what is happening and has a harder time pushing.
Which doesn't change the fact that it's done and nearly every person I know who has given birth chose to get the epidurals. A lot of the teens my age were induced at a convieneint time for doc and patient. That's how it goes. May not be the best way in your mind but it's modern.

[Trigg]

Or it could go terribly wrong depending on cirucmstances. Woman have given birth naturally for ages and many of them died in the process.


Which doesn't change the fact that it's done and nearly every person I know who has given birth chose to get the epidurals. A lot of the teens my age were induced at a convieneint time for doc and patient. That's how it goes. May not be the best way in your mind but it's modern.

By natural I don't mean at home, natural can be done at the hospital. It just means no meds and no inducing. See what I mean you have no idea what your talking about.

There is nothing new or modern about inducing labor its been going on for at least 35-40 years. The pain and discomfort it causes is the reason for the resurgence of natural childbirth.

I have 4 children and I work in the medical field, I know what I'm talking about. Trinity also has children. But, by all means ignore what we are saying. I'm sure you, who has never been pregnant, know more than we do.

[LiberalNation]

Natural can be done, sure, I thought you meant at home with a midwife natural. Certinienly her situation, alone, and in a public bathroom wasn't safe or very normal way to go about it.

You can also go natural, be in abor 20 hours, and end up having to have a c-section anyway after going thru all that pain trying to do it natural.

[Trigg]

Natural can be done, sure, I thought you meant at home with a midwife natural. Certinienly her situation, alone, and in a public bathroom wasn't safe or very normal way to go about it.

You can also go natural, be in abor 20 hours, and end up having to have a c-section anyway after going thru all that pain trying to do it natural.

Of course giving birth in a toilet isn't safe, which is why I said I'm glad the baby is fine.

[LiberalNation]

Okay that's what I was arguing. I haven't said anything you could call false except that I don't think having a baby alone on the floor of a public restroom espcially if you didn't believe you wer even pregnant would be an "easy" birth either way you try an cut it.

Did I say drugs were the best or only way, no.

Did I evens ay natural birth is bad, no.

[Trigg]

Okay that's what I was arguing. I haven't said anything you could call false except that I don't think having a baby alone on the floor of a public restroom espcially if you didn't believe you wer even pregnant would be an "easy" birth either way you try an cut it.

Did I say drugs were the best or only way, no.

Did I evens ay natural birth is bad, no.

Honestly, sometimes I get the idea you like to argue for arguments sake.

No one on this board would say giving birth in a toilet is safe.

You didn't say drugs were the only way to go, but you did imply that was the BETTER way to go instead of natural childbirth (which until I explained it, you weren't even sure what it was)


You can also go natural, be in abor 20 hours, and end up having to have a c-section anyway after going thru all that pain trying to do it natural.



A lot of the teens my age were induced at a convieneint time for doc and patient. May not be the best way in your mind but it's modern.

[LiberalNation]

You didn't say drugs were the only way to go, but you did imply that was the BETTER way to go instead of natural childbirth
better in some cases, of course ut;s akk subjective depending on circumstance. Birth is usual painful and drugs to cut the pain isn't a bad option to most people.

[-Cp]

This story gives a new meaning to the term "Gonna drop off the kids at the pool!" :P

[JohnDoe]

isn't it true that you can drop off any newborn at any fire dept or hospital with no questions asked, by law, nowadays?

this law was put in for a reason....

because this type of distorted and twisted actions are common place, among teens and women that were unaware or in denial, that they are pregnant...

what this girl went through is not uncommon, or this law, would not have had to be put in place....

my bet, is that she will not be prosecuted, and should not be prosecuted imo, based on what we know so far.

[Gunny]

isn't it true that you can drop off any newborn at any fire dept or hospital with no questions asked, by law, nowadays?

this law was put in for a reason....

because this type of distorted and twisted actions are common place, among teens and women that were unaware or in denial, that they are pregnant...

what this girl went through is not uncommon, or this law, would not have had to be put in place....

my bet, is that she will not be prosecuted, and should not be prosecuted imo, based on what we know so far.

Sure she should be prosecuted. Attempted murder comes to mind.

[jimnyc]

my bet, is that she will not be prosecuted, and should not be prosecuted imo, based on what we know so far.

I would love to know what you read in the article that makes you think she shouldn't be prosecuted.

[Trinity]

Or it could go terribly wrong depending on cirucmstances. Woman have given birth naturally for ages and many of them died in the process.


Which doesn't change the fact that it's done and nearly every person I know who has given birth chose to get the epidurals. A lot of the teens my age were induced at a convieneint time for doc and patient. That's how it goes. May not be the best way in your mind but it's modern.

Whoa hold on... stop right there........When I was pregnant with my daughter I went into labor around 1am it was so bad that I could not walk. I went to the hospital, I was dilated 2cm I had every intention of having natural childbirth no drugs at all. I was in labor for about 18 hours with nothing, they finally decided that my cervix had swollen and I was no longer dilating and they decided to do an emergency c-section that was when I got an epidural and was not by choice. I threw the biggest fit, I was determined they were not cutting me open, however my mother came in and reasoned with me and now I have a beautiful soon to be 21 year old daughter.


Now as for recently most of these women who choose to get the epidural is due mostly to the fact that the doctor has talked them into it, telling them it will relieve the pain and make it easier on the mother. When you have a first time mother to be who has heard all the horror stories about childbirth and everyone she knows that has children has gotten the epidural what do you think she is going to do. Avoid any pain she can. especially when they doctor is endorsing it.

[Trinity]

Natural can be done, sure, I thought you meant at home with a midwife natural. Certinienly her situation, alone, and in a public bathroom wasn't safe or very normal way to go about it.

You can also go natural, be in abor 20 hours, and end up having to have a c-section anyway after going thru all that pain trying to do it natural.

Which is exactly what I did! Thank god the next 3 were all scheduled c-sections! No more labor for me.

[Trinity]

Honestly, sometimes I get the idea you like to argue for arguments sake.

No one on this board would say giving birth in a toilet is safe.

You didn't say drugs were the only way to go, but you did imply that was the BETTER way to go instead of natural childbirth (which until I explained it, you weren't even sure what it was)


You know I have heard that most peoples bathrooms are way cleaner then their kitchens as far as germs go.......so the toilet might have been really clean lol!!!:laugh2:

[Trinity]

This story gives a new meaning to the term "Gonna drop off the kids at the pool!" :P

:laugh2::laugh2: White Devil - One Ticket to the Party!

[Trinity]

You know this brings to mind a girl I met a couple of years ago she was about 5'6" and 140lbs she was in college and had a boyfriend she was doing typical college type activities parties, sports, studying well one night she started having really bad stomach pains she took some antacid and it did not help, her boyfriend finally took her to the hospital because she was in so much pain. Come to find out she was in labor and about to give birth. She had no idea she was even pregnant. She had a healthy baby boy who is about 3 years old now.

[JohnDoe]

I would love to know what you read in the article that makes you think she shouldn't be prosecuted.
She did not know she was pregnant, the toilet experience with Labor was foreign to her, and chemical imbalance with hormones....drive some women nuts...

[JohnDoe]

Sure she should be prosecuted. Attempted murder comes to mind.Well of course the callous and waxed cold you, would think this way!!!:poke:

[jimnyc]

She did not know she was pregnant, the toilet experience with Labor was foreign to her, and chemical imbalance with hormones....drive some women nuts...

So her naivety should keep her from prosecution?

She either deserves to be behind bars, or locked up in an institution until she understands her crime. She doesn't deserve a break simply because she was unaware, or chemically imbalanced.

[jimnyc]

Well of course the callous and waxed cold you, would think this way!!!:poke:

Yeah, he's cold hearted for expecting someone to pay for their crimes.

[JohnDoe]

So her naivety should keep her from prosecution?

She either deserves to be behind bars, or locked up in an institution until she understands her crime. She doesn't deserve a break simply because she was unaware, or chemically imbalanced. Crimes usually involve a malice intent.

For example, according to God, a poor hungry man stealing from a farmer's crop or a grocery store for food, is not considered stealing or a crime.

To you and with our laws, it probably would be, but to God, without malice, it is not.

Would you like the Scripture quote for this? I will look it up and get it for you...

[jimnyc]

Crimes usually involve a malice intent.

For example, according to God, a poor hungry man stealing from a farmer's crop or a grocery store for food, is not considered stealing or a crime.

To you and with our laws, it probably would be, but to God, without malice, it is not.

Would you like the Scripture quote for this? I will look it up and get it for you...

Don't take this the wrong way, but God has nothing to do with this situation or discussion.

No 2 ways about it, what she did WAS a crime. She attempted to snuff out the life of a newborn child. Whether she can be found responsible or not based on mental issues is another story but wouldn't change the fact that a crime was committed.

I'm of the belief that if someone is found not able to fully comprehend their crimes because of mental capacity, they should serve their time in an institution which will help them better understand why what they did was wrong.

I have a chemical imbalance as well, and have a medicine cabinet full of prescriptions to prove it. I certainly wouldn't expect to get away with ANY crime should I break the law. If we allow people to just walk away from their crimes we will then start to see every kook East of San Francisco crying mental defect after they are apprehended.

[JohnDoe]

Don't take this the wrong way, but God has nothing to do with this situation or discussion.

No 2 ways about it, what she did WAS a crime. She attempted to snuff out the life of a newborn child. Whether she can be found responsible or not based on mental issues is another story but wouldn't change the fact that a crime was committed.

I'm of the belief that if someone is found not able to fully comprehend their crimes because of mental capacity, they should serve their time in an institution which will help them better understand why what they did was wrong.

I have a chemical imbalance as well, and have a medicine cabinet full of prescriptions to prove it. I certainly wouldn't expect to get away with ANY crime should I break the law. If we allow people to just walk away from their crimes we will then start to see every kook East of San Francisco crying mental defect after they are apprehended.

Was this a premeditated crime with intent to harm?

To me, she was mentally and physically unstable, at the time this happened to her, and confused or unaware of the result of her actions....she was in shock....

I can reason what I said above....IF this were her first child and she had not delivered a previous child.

There are many young women out there that have been pregnant and did not know it until they delivered their child, who have dumped these newly born children in trash bins....a TOTALLY IRRATIONAL action to all of us.....

but because this was common, the Laws were changed, allowing these women or a friend of theirs to just drop this newborn off at a hospital or fire dept or even police dept with no questions asked about the mother.

I don't believe that these laws would have been put in place if they thought these mothers rationalized correctly during this labor without drugs or any medical help period.

The problem with these new programs is that most young women do not know about them....

I believe this young girl when she said she did not even know she was pregnant.... if she had known she was pregnant and did not want her child, she could have aborted it legally, with the ways the laws are now.

[jimnyc]

Was this a premeditated crime with intent to harm?

Does it matter? All that would change would be the degree of the crime she should be charged with. It shouldn't help her evade prosecution. If she was "mentally and physically unstable" at the time, then she should serve time in an institution to get herself better and further understand why what she did was a crime.

[truthmatters]

Our laws today take in factors like state of mind and mitigating circumstances

This woman will not just walk away from this but I see no problem with considering all the facts of the case.

[Abbey Marie]

Well of course the callous and waxed cold you, would think this way!!!:poke:

I'll bet that baby boy would say that Gunny is right, and any mommy who would flush her newborn down a toilet is the cold-hearted one.

Animal moms seem to know to protect their young at birth. Do they know more about being pregnant than this woman?

[jimnyc]

Our laws today take in factors like state of mind and mitigating circumstances

This woman will not just walk away from this but I see no problem with considering all the facts of the case.

The law should take into account all the circumstances, and if found to be mentally unstable, this woman should be held against her will at a mental institution decided by the court until such time she is considered "stable" and fully understands her crime. At such time she should either be sent to prison, or walk away if the court feels the time spent at the institution was sufficient enough to pay her debt to society.

[JohnDoe]

Does it matter? All that would change would be the degree of the crime she should be charged with. It shouldn't help her evade prosecution. If she was "mentally and physically unstable" at the time, then she should serve time in an institution to get herself better and further understand why what she did was a crime.I agree that she should receive mental help, to make her realize what she had done, and that her child should not be given back to her.... though if she was healed, and came to terms with her actions someday, and her child was still in adoptive services, and she was repentive and desperately wanted to rear her child, and had proven herself to be capable, I probably would not throw a tizzy fit about it....I would probably feel that she should be given this chance....

I am a softy, what can I say? ;)

[LiberalNation]

Animal moms seem to know to protect their young at birth. Do they know more about being pregnant than this woman?
and some eat their own young. And some lay eggs an disapear from the youngs life before they hatch.

[JohnDoe]

I'll bet that baby boy would say that Gunny is right, and any mommy who would flush her newborn down a toilet is the cold-hearted one.

Animal moms seem to know to protect their young at birth. Do they know more about being pregnant than this woman?


I respectfully disagree.

[Abbey Marie]

and some eat their own young. And some lay eggs an disapear from the youngs life before they hatch.

Exceptions to the rule that I knew would be brought up. Most will do almost anything to defend their young.

As to the other point, are we claiming that this woman knew less about being pregnant than an animal? I would think that your average alley cat doesn't really understand pregnancy, or know ahead of time when she will give birth. Yet when she delivers, she gets into gear and does what is necessary to ensure her kitties' survival.

[Abbey Marie]

I respectfully disagree.

With what?

[LiberalNation]

Animal to human comparisions don't work. Animals don't live in societies with rules and other people who will shoot them if they abandon their young. Or force them to take care of them. Humans are not really driven by natural instincts that tell them to do this or do that. They are driven by their society, it's rules, their emotions, their mental state of mind at the moment.

[JohnDoe]

With what?

With this:


...any mommy who would flush her newborn down a toilet is the cold-hearted one.



We don't know the condition of her heart or what she had gone through mentally or phisically to lead her to these actions, it is a presumption of innocense that I give her at this point, not a prejudgement of her hot or cold heart....thus, I disagree!!! ;)

jd

[truthmatters]

Our countries laws take into consideration state opf mind and mitigating circumstances.

This is a good thing people!

This is considering ALL the facts in the case.

I just cant understand why anyone would want facts excluded from how they Deside ANYTHING?

[jimnyc]

I just cant understand why anyone would want facts excluded from how they Deside ANYTHING?

Please show me where anyone has chosen or asked to exclude the facts.

[truthmatters]

Well, I say "bye bye brains" then!


I saw quite a few statements like this in the begining of the thread.

[darin]

We don't know the condition of her heart or what she had gone through mentally or phisically to lead her to these actions, it is a presumption of innocense that I give her at this point, not a prejudgement of her hot or cold heart....thus, I disagree!!! ;)

jd


Her actions betray her heart-condition. The 'fruit' from her heart is evil.

[jimnyc]

I saw quite a few statements like this in the begining of the thread.

And that has WHAT to do with excluding the facts?

Are YOU mentally disabled? Seriously, are you? You don't grasp things as quickly as the average person.

[truthmatters]

She clearly didn't have sound mind.

You said it in response to this.

To any thinking person it sugests you would not care about her state of mind.

I know you will deny that that is what it means but Im sure you wont explain why it means something else either.

[nevadamedic]

And that has WHAT to do with excluding the facts?

Are YOU mentally disabled? Seriously, are you? You don't grasp things as quickly as the average person.

:laugh2: We need to introtuce her to Psychoblues. I hope he takes my advice while hes banned and gets tested for Mental Retardation.

[truthmatters]

:laugh2: We need to introtuce her to Psychoblues. I hope he takes my advice while hes banned and gets tested for Mental Retardation.


I would settle for an explanation of what he meant by "then bye bye brains" if I misunderstood him?

[JohnDoe]

Her actions betray her heart-condition. The 'fruit' from her heart is evil.I disagree!!! YOU have no idea whether the ''fruit'' from her heart is ''evil''....NONE!!!

I think you can speculate, and you can judge as you have, without knowing her circumstances and mental condition ALL your little heart desires, (stressed sarcasim ;) ), but at this point dmp, I do not believe YOU, nor others, can honestly make this judgement on the ''evilness of her heart''...and nor should you!

I agree with Jim's response earlier, in regards to determining her mental state....and sending her for help, if such is determined necessary...

jd

[nevadamedic]

I disagree!!! YOU have no idea whether the ''fruit'' from her heart is ''evil''....NONE!!!

I think you can speculate, and you can judge as you have, without knowing her circumstances and mental condition ALL your little heart desires, (stressed sarcasim ;) ), but at this point dmp, I do not believe YOU, nor others, can honestly make this judgement on the ''evilness of her heart''...and nor should you!

I agree with Jim's response earlier, in regards to determining her mental state....and sending her for help, if such is determined necessary...

jd

Yikes, your talking about mental state? I mean cmon at first your a guy now your a girl do we need to go there? :laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[JohnDoe]

Yikes, your talking about mental state? I mean cmon at first your a guy now your a girl do we need to go there? :laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

BUT, but, but I was NEVER a guy.....my name was....but i was not!

Even in my responses, before you guys were told by me that i was a female, i never said i was a guy, and i responded as myself....which had a strong feminine quality and if u guys were paying attention, you all should have caught it before i had to confess!!! imo :D

[Abbey Marie]

Animal to human comparisions don't work. Animals don't live in societies with rules and other people who will shoot them if they abandon their young. Or force them to take care of them. Humans are not really driven by natural instincts that tell them to do this or do that. They are driven by their society, it's rules, their emotions, their mental state of mind at the moment.

All the more reason why the woman needs to be held responsible. We are held to a higher standard than animals, because even the simpletons among us can think at a higher level. And because have those societal rules to follow. You have missed the point; if animals can do it, why can't this human?

Question 2: A simple one that I would love to see answered. Why do liberals alway seem to rush to defend and justify the actions of even the most heinous moms (aborters, drug users during pregnancy, even those that drown their own baby in toilets) over the child?

[nevadamedic]

BUT, but, but I was NEVER a guy.....my name was....but i was not!

Even in my responses, before you guys were told by me that i was a female, i never said i was a guy, and i responded as myself....which had a strong feminine quality and if u guys were paying attention, you all should have caught it before i had to confess!!! imo :D

Naaaa we all just thought you were a little fruity. You know onw day your a male the next your a female, you should just have an operation and you can be half male and half female all the time............. :laugh2:

[Trinity]

BUT, but, but I was NEVER a guy.....my name was....but i was not!

Even in my responses, before you guys were told by me that i was a female, i never said i was a guy, and i responded as myself....which had a strong feminine quality and if u guys were paying attention, you all should have caught it before i had to confess!!! imo :D

I picked up on it :coffee: oh but wait I'm a women......:laugh2:

[truthmatters]

All the more reason why the woman needs to be held responsible. We are held to a higher standard than animals, because even the simpletons among us can think at a higher level. And because have those societal rules to follow. You have missed the point; if animals can do it, why can't this human?

Question 2: A simple one that I would love to see answered. Why do liberals alway seem to rush to defend and justify the actions of even the most heinous moms (aborters, drug users during pregnancy, even those that drown their own baby in toilets) over the child?


Our laws have provisions for mitigating circumstanes and state of mind.

When we talk about such things as this it is NOT justifying her actions it is taking in ALL the information to make a desicion. It is acting with prudence and intelligence to do so.

[darin]

Our laws have provisions for mitigating circumstanes and state of mind.

When we talk about such things as this it is NOT justifying her actions it is taking in ALL the information to make a desicion. It is acting with prudence and intelligence to do so.

OH LORD! You're debating what 'lawyers' do....to ABBEY? lmao.

[avatar4321]

BUT, but, but I was NEVER a guy.....my name was....but i was not!

Even in my responses, before you guys were told by me that i was a female, i never said i was a guy, and i responded as myself....which had a strong feminine quality and if u guys were paying attention, you all should have caught it before i had to confess!!! imo :D

You're a woman?!? never would have guessed. Got any proof?

[Abbey Marie]

Our laws have provisions for mitigating circumstanes and state of mind.

When we talk about such things as this it is NOT justifying her actions it is taking in ALL the information to make a desicion. It is acting with prudence and intelligence to do so.

Yes, and when this case appears before a judge or jury, they can make such decisions of guilt, innocence, mitigation, etc. What I am talking about, and it applies most of all to you, is the rush to propose any and every possible theory to let this woman off the hook right from the start. Before any of that information you mentioned is determined, you have decided that there simply must be a way she is not guilty of anything. The facts on their face point overwhelmingly to guilt. It is you, not I, that is jumping through hoops with no facts to let her off.

It's really fascinating, in a sociological sort of way. And sickening, too. Perhaps you can explain why the woman means so much more to you than the baby?

[glockmail]

You're a woman?!? never would have guessed. Got any proof? She showed us pics in another thread. Too bad you missed that. :poke:

[Gunny]

Well of course the callous and waxed cold you, would think this way!!!:poke:


The "callous and waxed cold me" took my babies home and raised them. I didn't try to flush them for inconveniencing my party time.

[Gunny]

Was this a premeditated crime with intent to harm?

To me, she was mentally and physically unstable, at the time this happened to her, and confused or unaware of the result of her actions....she was in shock....

I can reason what I said above....IF this were her first child and she had not delivered a previous child.

There are many young women out there that have been pregnant and did not know it until they delivered their child, who have dumped these newly born children in trash bins....a TOTALLY IRRATIONAL action to all of us.....

but because this was common, the Laws were changed, allowing these women or a friend of theirs to just drop this newborn off at a hospital or fire dept or even police dept with no questions asked about the mother.

I don't believe that these laws would have been put in place if they thought these mothers rationalized correctly during this labor without drugs or any medical help period.

The problem with these new programs is that most young women do not know about them....

I believe this young girl when she said she did not even know she was pregnant.... if she had known she was pregnant and did not want her child, she could have aborted it legally, with the ways the laws are now.


It was a crime with intent to kill. Murder is still a crime, whether or not premeditated.

[Gunny]

I respectfully disagree.

You can disagree all you want, but in the end, you're STILL wrong, and making bullshit excuses for unacceptable and unlawful behavior designed to deprive of life a living, breathing human being.

[glockmail]

This thread is sicker than the last time I looked. I can't believe these liberals would defend this woman. What she did was either sick and murderous or she is completely out of touch with reality. Either way she's a useless human being and should be cut up for dog meat.

[Gunny]

Exceptions to the rule that I knew would be brought up. Most will do almost anything to defend their young.

As to the other point, are we claiming that this woman knew less about being pregnant than an animal? I would think that your average alley cat doesn't really understand pregnancy, or know ahead of time when she will give birth. Yet when she delivers, she gets into gear and does what is necessary to ensure her kitties' survival.

LN's argument is BS. Animals eating their young is NOT normal, biological behavior for any species.

[darin]

She showed us pics in another thread. Too bad you missed that. :poke:

:bs: she never put up a pic.

[nevadamedic]

:bs: she never put up a pic.

Actually she did and shes a little hottie...............

[Gunny]

With this:




We don't know the condition of her heart or what she had gone through mentally or phisically to lead her to these actions, it is a presumption of innocense that I give her at this point, not a prejudgement of her hot or cold heart....thus, I disagree!!! ;)

jd

But you're ever so quick to call ME cold-hearted, when I damned-well know what to do with an infant, and flushing it isn't one of those options.

[nevadamedic]

You're a woman?!? never would have guessed. Got any proof?

She posted her pics.................

[JohnDoe]

This thread is sicker than the last time I looked. I can't believe these liberals would defend this woman. What she did was either sick and murderous or she is completely out of touch with reality. Either way she's a useless human being and should be cut up for dog meat. It's a matter of whether you view life as a glass half full or a glass half empty.... BOTH are correct answers when asked to view, then describe this glass halfway filled with water.

IT may be hard to accept that someone does not recognize that the glass is half empty, and only views it as half full.... yet this does not make the other person irrational, or possess some sort of ''mental'' defect...

This understanding between seemingly opposite views, seems to be missing, from those on both sides of the aisle, and i believe this is why we all continue to bicker over issues that we probably truely agree on! Like the glass is CERTAINLY not empty, and the glass is CERTAINLY not full!!

AS a moderate liberal, and married to a conservative republican, if i did not learn this early on, we could have been toast!!!

So let me begin...

if it could be proven that this young girl viciously tried to kill her child and had no mental disorder that caused this irrational move, i would gladly see her go to prison.

:D

jd

[darin]

Actually she did and shes a little hottie...............

Then why aren't you posting up a LINK? Holy CRAP dude! :)

[Gunny]

It's a matter of whether you view life as a glass half full or a glass half empty.... BOTH are correct answers when asked to view, then describe this glass halfway filled with water.

IT may be hard to accept that someone does not recognize that the glass is half empty, and only views it as half full.... yet this does not make the other person irrational, or possess some sort of ''mental'' defect...

This understanding between seemingly opposite views, seems to be missing, from those on both sides of the aisle, and i believe this is why we all continue to bicker over issues that we probably truely agree on! Like the glass is CERTAINLY not empty, and the glass is CERTAINLY not full!!

AS a moderate liberal, and married to a conservative republican, if i did not learn this early on, we could have been toast!!!

So let me begin...

if it could be proven that this young girl viciously tried to kill her child and had no mental disorder that caused this irrational move, i would gladly see her go to prison.

:D

jd

A perfect of example of "if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, try to baffle them with bullshit."

The woman gave life to a human being and attempted to snuff that life out. That's called murder in this nation. None of your smokescreen nor relativist BS changes those simple facts.

[nevadamedic]

Then why aren't you posting up a LINK? Holy CRAP dude! :)

Two reasons, one she is all MINE :laugh2: And two I forgot what thread it was in. Go look at her last couple of posts.

[JohnDoe]

But you're ever so quick to call ME cold-hearted, when I damned-well know what to do with an infant, and flushing it isn't one of those options.honestly gunny, i shouldn't have said that to you....i think i'm still mad at you from the first time we clashed and am having a hard time getting over it... jd

[Gunny]

honestly gunny, i shouldn't have said that to you....i think i'm still mad at you from the first time we clashed and am having a hard time getting over it... jd

I don't even remember when that was nor what it was about.

[Mr. P]

It's a matter of whether you view life as a glass half full or a glass half empty.... BOTH are correct answers when asked to view, then describe this glass halfway filled with water.

IT may be hard to accept that someone does not recognize that the glass is half empty, and only views it as half full.... yet this does not make the other person irrational, or possess some sort of ''mental'' defect...

This understanding between seemingly opposite views, seems to be missing, from those on both sides of the aisle, and i believe this is why we all continue to bicker over issues that we probably truely agree on! Like the glass is CERTAINLY not empty, and the glass is CERTAINLY not full!!

AS a moderate liberal, and married to a conservative republican, if i did not learn this early on, we could have been toast!!!

So let me begin...

if it could be proven that this young girl viciously tried to kill her child and had no mental disorder that caused this irrational move, i would gladly see her go to prison.

:D

jd

I couldn't agree more.

[darin]

first person to link me to the pics gets 400 rep points! :)

[nevadamedic]

http://www.geocities.com/care4all2/pictures4.JPG

[darin]

:bs: there's NO way the woman in those pics is a liberal.

[Yurt]

first person to link me to the pics gets 400 rep points! :)


http://steelturman.typepad.com/thesteeldeal/images/hillary_clinton_boobs_bill_cleavage.jpg

[nevadamedic]

:bs: there's NO way the woman in those pics is a liberal.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=114023#post114023

hahaha! we are not old by any means, but we do have kitty cats! lol

crows feet and grey hair around the sideburns is most certainly there in the last picture, but hidden by the picture's blurryness, THANK GOD! pics of me and the hubby over 10-15 years
http://www.geocities.com/care4all2/pictures4.JPG


Wheres my damn points! :cool:

[nevadamedic]

http://steelturman.typepad.com/thesteeldeal/images/hillary_clinton_boobs_bill_cleavage.jpg

That was mean JD is a great person and really hott. Although she has years of brain washing we need to fix, Im thinking one night with me and I think that her views might be fixed! ;) :cool:

[Yurt]

That was mean JD is a great person and really hott. Although she has years of brain washing we need to fix, Im thinking one night with me and I think that her views might be fixed! ;) :cool:

Mean??? Dude, you have said absolutely shitty things on this board to people, don't talk to me about being mean over a funny pic.

[nevadamedic]

Mean??? Dude, you have said absolutely shitty things on this board to people, don't talk to me about being mean over a funny pic.

Only when im provoked.....................

[glockmail]

http://steelturman.typepad.com/thesteeldeal/images/hillary_clinton_boobs_bill_cleavage.jpg


Oops, did I tell y'all that I'm a Democrat now?
:laugh2:

[nevadamedic]

first person to link me to the pics gets 400 rep points! :)

Guess you wern't serious :(

[darin]

Guess you wern't serious :(

Stop whining - I'm trying to verify it's her :)

[nevadamedic]

Stop whining - I'm trying to verify it's her :)

Look at the second link I gave you, it takes you to the page where she posted that link.

[darin]

Look at the second link I gave you, it takes you to the page where she posted that link.

That verifies nothing. :) Relax, you'll get your points... :)

[Yurt]

Only when im provoked.....................

LOOOOOL, I did not provoke you, errr, obviously my pic aroused you.... :poke:

[glockmail]

It's a matter of whether you view life as a glass half full or a glass half empty.... BOTH are correct answers when asked to view, then describe this glass halfway filled with water.

IT may be hard to accept that someone does not recognize that the glass is half empty, and only views it as half full.... yet this does not make the other person irrational, or possess some sort of ''mental'' defect...

This understanding between seemingly opposite views, seems to be missing, from those on both sides of the aisle, and i believe this is why we all continue to bicker over issues that we probably truely agree on! Like the glass is CERTAINLY not empty, and the glass is CERTAINLY not full!!

AS a moderate liberal, and married to a conservative republican, if i did not learn this early on, we could have been toast!!!

So let me begin...

if it could be proven that this young girl viciously tried to kill her child and had no mental disorder that caused this irrational move, i would gladly see her go to prison.

:D

jd

Look JD I have doubts that this woman didn't know what she was doing, but they are very, very slight. I've been present at two childbirths and I don't see much in the way of doubt that the woman doin' the pushin' could not know whats going on. So simply based on the OP I'm about 98% certain that she's a sicko and should be sent to jail for a long time, then straight to hell upon her last breathe. If I'm wrong, it won't be the first time.

[JohnDoe]

well, i can accept that. and as we've discussed, i have never had a child, so i am as clueless as a man, when it comes to that....other than what i have read, and dared to say, imagined.

it just seems from the 2 statements they had from her at the scene of the crime, were :

1) i didn't know i was pregnant....

and

2) i tried to flush it down the toilet...

this was so freely said by her...that makes me question her sanity, at the time....like she was cluless that ''it'' was a child, that she delivered in to the toilet? maybe i read it wrong and she delivered on the floor then picked up the baby and threw it in the toilet to kill it.... but, i did not get this from the article??? if i had, then i would think precisely as you, she is evil!

jd

[glockmail]

well, i can accept that. and as we've discussed, i have never had a child, so i am as clueless as a man, when it comes to that....other than what i have read, and dared to say, imagined.

it just seems from the 2 statements they had from her at the scene of the crime, were :

1) i didn't know i was pregnant....

and

2) i tried to flush it down the toilet...

this was so freely said by her...that makes me question her sanity, at the time....like she was cleless that ''it'' was a child, that she delivered in to the toilet? maybe i read it wrong and she delivered on the floor then picked up the baby and threw it in the toilet to kill it.... but, i did not get this from the article??? if i had, then i would think precisely as you, she is evil!

jd My wife was in labor for 13 hours for our first. She got so weak at the end my son had to be pulled out with "salad tongs", and my son's head was shaped like a nerf football and his skin the dark purple. And this is a woman who was strong enough to be a national champ in collegiate level sports. So I find it hard to believe that a woman would give birth and not know it.

[JohnDoe]

My wife was in labor for 13 hours for our first. She got so weak at the end my son had to be pulled out with "salad tongs", and my son's head was shaped like a nerf football and his skin the dark purple. And this is a woman who was strong enough to be a national champ in collegiate level sports. So I find it hard to believe that a woman would give birth and not know it.

yes, but I have read thatyoung women giving birth, have much less problems and much shorter delivery times, with less complications....

Also, I believe the article said she was in the bathroom for a couple of hours, and others got worried about her....

The Story was writen in such "short story" or abbrieviated form, that I am not certain if either of us can determine whether she is Evil or whether she is Sick or whether she was in Shock, or even what she did...delivered on the floor and then dumped the kid in the toilet or delivered while sitting, which supposedly is the easiest, natural way to deliver...and I think this will matter when determining the level of criminality to her actions...

ie. if she delivered the child on the floor, had scissors with her to cut the embelical cord, then took her child and placed it in the toilet and then, tried to flush it down, over and over and over and over again, while standing up and watching.... then to me, that would be premeditated, murder.

But if she had cramps, like menstrual cramps, so badly that she was keeling over, (Which I have had, in my youth, so much so, that they tried to chemically correct it, at only 12 years old), and was hemoraging clumps, which I also have had in my 20's, (Later only to find out that sometimes those clumps are natural miscarriages :( )....

damnit, I just don't know enough about all of this, with personal experience, or with what I got from the article, to condemn her, without knowing more...

I mean, if she flushed after passing something, and did not realize that this something was a child in the toilet that she had not viewed, then maybe she was in shock or mentally unstable at the moment or MAYBE she is guilty of attempted manslaughter in the 2nd degree, at worst imho.... not that I know crap about the Law, other than what a laymen citizen would think! hahahaha! :D

jd

[glockmail]

yes, but I have read thatyoung women giving birth, have much less problems and much shorter delivery times, with less complications....

Also, I believe the article said she was in the bathroom for a couple of hours, and others got worried about her....

The Story was writen in such "short story" or abbrieviated form, that I am not certain if either of us can determine whether she is Evil or whether she is Sick or whether she was in Shock, or even what she did...delivered on the floor and then dumped the kid in the toilet or delivered while sitting, which supposedly is the easiest, natural way to deliver...and I think this will matter when determining the level of criminality to her actions...

ie. if she delivered the child on the floor, had scissors with her to cut the embelical cord, then took her child and placed it in the toilet and then, tried to flush it down, over and over and over and over again, while standing up and watching.... then to me, that would be premeditated, murder.

But if she had cramps, like menstrual cramps, so badly that she was keeling over, (Which I have had, in my youth, so much so, that they tried to chemically correct it, at only 12 years old), and was hemoraging clumps, which I also have had in my 20's, (Later only to find out that sometimes those clumps are natural miscarriages :( )....

damnit, I just don't know enough about all of this, with personal experience, or with what I got from the article, to condemn her, without knowing more...

I mean, if she flushed after passing something, and did not realize that this something was a child in the toilet that she had not viewed, then maybe she was in shock or mentally unstable at the moment or MAYBE she is guilty of attempted manslaughter in the 2nd degree, at worst imho.... not that I know crap about the Law, other than what a laymen citizen would think! hahahaha! :D

jd


First of all my wife was 28 for our first, which is young. Second I don't think there is any correlation between age and complications, unless you're far to the edge of normal childbirth years.

Second you're giving his woman way to much benefit of doubt, IMO. Anyone who spends two frigging hours in a public restroom gotta be odder than a 3 dollar bill. She was either pure evil, on crack or a stupid dirty slob. Either way its sick- too sick for me to think about further.