E. Coli from butchers? [Archive] - Debate Policy

darin

08-30-2007, 03:29 PM

glockmail

08-30-2007, 03:47 PM

No, but the media has no cause to skewer a little mom-and-pop type place. They'd rather go after evil big corporations. I bet incidents per pound processed is about the same on average.

darin

08-30-2007, 03:55 PM

hrm - interesting, but I'd serioulsy doubt the inceidents per pound theory. Just due to number of handlers, I'd easily trust butcher-meat (www.dougsqualitymeats.com) over ANY chain/supermarket

Mr. P

08-30-2007, 04:00 PM

No, but the media has no cause to skewer a little mom-and-pop type place. They'd rather go after evil big corporations. I bet incidents per pound processed is about the same on average.

Yep. Most (not All) ground meat comes in from the packer pre-ground. That's where the tainting originates, not the store for the most part. Many local Butches buy from the same packers as groceries do, they just tend to do their own ground meat, but even that is not a 100% sure thing, the meat still comes from a packer and can be contaminated.

Personally, I don't trust any of em for ground meat.

glockmail

08-30-2007, 04:00 PM

Maybe so. But if you have more to produce, then your production runs are longer, so less switching over to another type of meat or product. Every time you switch you're suppose to dissassemble/ clean/ reasemble, and the incentive to neglect something, or make a mistake, goes up with having to do that more often.

glockmail

08-30-2007, 04:03 PM

...

Personally, I don't trust any of em for ground meat.

I cook the shit out of that stuff. Its really the only safe way to eat it. My Dad will still order one at a restaurant rare, and has actually been made to sign a waiver.

Mr. P

08-30-2007, 04:37 PM

I cook the shit out of that stuff. Its really the only safe way to eat it. My Dad will still order one at a restaurant rare, and has actually been made to sign a waiver.

Same here, although I'll go medium IF I grind it myself. I'll tell ya something, if you do grind it at home and cook the shit outta it, it's still better than store bought ground.

Grinders are pretty cheap. It is a minor pain, but you know "what's in there" when all is said an done. It is soooooo worth it.

nevadamedic

08-30-2007, 04:41 PM

New E. Coli outbreak/warning: http://www.komotv.com/news/9475687.html

Reading that, the thought came to me: I cannot recall a single meat-recall where the stuff was NOT sold from chains/supermarkets. Anyone? Anyone know people or stories where meat purchased thru a real butcher made ppl sick?

Actually I have. A while ago back in Fallon NV. They also had some major cancer clusters out there too. They were on Unsolved Mysteries. Hundreds of kids were getting cancer and they couldn't figure out why. Some people thought it was Jet Fuel in the water as Fallon is and has been the home of the Top Gun program for years actually almost since the movie came out. Also it is only an hour or so from the Tonopah Test Range and about two-three hours from Area 51.

When they had the meat scare people though it was from the cows drinking the water. Some of the theroy's they came up with were pretty out there thats for sure. People also have to remember that Nevada is the place that they tested nuclear weapons for many years.

darin

08-30-2007, 04:52 PM

I never cook my butcher-burgers past Medium. Steaks? Just warm in the center, and they're good :)

-Cp

08-30-2007, 05:06 PM

Actually I have. A while ago back in Fallon NV. They also had some major cancer clusters out there too. They were on Unsolved Mysteries. Hundreds of kids were getting cancer and they couldn't figure out why. Some people thought it was Jet Fuel in the water as Fallon is and has been the home of the Top Gun program for years actually almost since the movie came out. Also it is only an hour or so from the Tonopah Test Range and about two-three hours from Area 51.

When they had the meat scare people though it was from the cows drinking the water. Some of the theroy's they came up with were pretty out there thats for sure. People also have to remember that Nevada is the place that they tested nuclear weapons for many years.

Do you know the name of the Butcher shop that was selling the tainted meat?

Many local Butches buy from the same packers as groceries do, they just tend to do their own ground meat, but even that is not a 100% sure thing, the meat still comes from a packer and can be contaminated.

If you're going to a shop that pulls from the same sources, it's time to find a new shop! Seriously..... If you're butcher can't tell you anything about where the beef came from, what and how it was fed - then don't buy from him..

Mr. P

08-30-2007, 05:31 PM

If you're going to a shop that pulls from the same sources, it's time to find a new shop! Seriously..... If you're butcher can't tell you anything about where the beef came from, what and how it was fed - then don't buy from him..

They know where it's from, CP. So do I. Unless you pay big bucks you're getting the same as anyone else. On the other hand I've had spensive meat from a very reputable butcher that was not as good as some I've had from the grocery. I'll never buy from that guy again. He sells the same as a grocery at twice the price.

It's difficult to find good meat on a consistent basis at a reasonable price. If you have a source for good stuff, enjoy it while it lasts.

What does your guy charge per lb for rib eye?

-Cp

08-31-2007, 12:20 AM

What does your guy charge per lb for rib eye?

Whatever the goin' rate is... I don't care cause it's the best... :)

Jon

08-31-2007, 02:32 AM

Whatever the goin' rate is... I don't care cause it's the best... :)

Unless it's Highlander, you're greatly overstating how good it is. :poke:

glockmail

08-31-2007, 08:54 AM

Same here, although I'll go medium IF I grind it myself. I'll tell ya something, if you do grind it at home and cook the shit outta it, it's still better than store bought ground.

Grinders are pretty cheap. It is a minor pain, but you know "what's in there" when all is said an done. It is soooooo worth it.

My mom used to have one of those that clamped onto the edge of the counter and you cranked by hand, and it worked great as I remember. I bought the wife one of those monster Kitchen Aid blender thingies with all type of attachments, including a grinder. I used it once for meat and she hated te end result, so I haven't bothered with that since.

glockmail

08-31-2007, 09:02 AM

I never cook my butcher-burgers past Medium. Steaks? Just warm in the center, and they're good :)

Steaks: Rub in both sides of a 1.5" thick cut with sea salt an hour before cooking. Heat up the grill on high. Grill on high for three minutes, flip for three, flip again and turn 90 degress for 2 minutes, then a third and final flip. Test for doneness by the finger poke method, and they are medium rare (perfect) when just firm after being fleshy. Rub in worchestershire sauce after every flip. Adjust times for thinner cuts.

I'm open for suggestions on how best to test for doneness. I've been hit-or-miss at times.

-Cp

08-31-2007, 12:00 PM

Unless it's Highlander, you're greatly overstating how good it is. :poke:

Not at all as I've never tasted Highlander beef.. .:(

-Cp

08-31-2007, 12:03 PM

Steaks: Rub in both sides of a 1.5" thick cut with sea salt an hour before cooking. Heat up the grill on high. Grill on high for three minutes, flip for three, flip again and turn 90 degress for 2 minutes, then a third and final flip. Test for doneness by the finger poke method, and they are medium rare (perfect) when just firm after being fleshy. Rub in worchestershire sauce after every flip. Adjust times for thinner cuts.

I'm open for suggestions on how best to test for doneness. I've been hit-or-miss at times.

If you have to do that much to it then that tells me you're starting off with sub-par-tasting beef... great steaks need nothing more than just Kosher Salt/Pepper...

Also.. you should never flip your steaks more than once...

I use the touch method too for testing doneness, however, meat forks are evil as they poke thru the steak allowing precious juice to run out..

Jon

08-31-2007, 12:17 PM

Not at all as I've never tasted Highlander beef.. .:(

I just had a nice Highlander steak a few minutes ago. MMmmm!

:poke:

dan

08-31-2007, 01:03 PM

What's the "touch method"?

glockmail

08-31-2007, 02:56 PM

If you have to do that much to it then that tells me you're starting off with sub-par-tasting beef... great steaks need nothing more than just Kosher Salt/Pepper...

Also.. you should never flip your steaks more than once...

I use the touch method too for testing doneness, however, meat forks are evil as they poke thru the steak allowing precious juice to run out..

I hear what you're saying and always subscribed to that, but I learned the salt and 3 flip method from a local chef here and immeadiatly saw a huge improvement in taste. The salt keeps in the juices, and the multi-flip with a turn gives it that checkerboard pattern. You should try it before you dismiss it.

The worchestershire is just an old family tradition.

glockmail

08-31-2007, 03:00 PM

What's the "touch method"? :poke:

Seriously thats the best way to describe it. Poke your forearm with your finger- that's too rare. Poke a steak around the edges and a firmness means its starting to get further along on the edges, and use the difference between the two feels to determine when the center is done to your liking.

-Cp

08-31-2007, 03:07 PM

I hear what you're saying and always subscribed to that, but I learned the salt and 3 flip method from a local chef here and immeadiatly saw a huge improvement in taste. The salt keeps in the juices, and the multi-flip with a turn gives it that checkerboard pattern. You should try it before you dismiss it.

The worchestershire is just an old family tradition.

I have no problems at all salting ahead of time as it helps condition the meats to absorb flavors and can help tenderize tougher cuts of meat.

However, I'll still keep flipping once - for the diamond pattern, all you have to do is do a 45-degree rotation after the first minute of searing...

Mr. P

08-31-2007, 03:53 PM

About salting.......I think this explains it well....

How many times have you heard, “Salting raw meat (or poultry or fish) will draw the juices out and make it tough?” I see this statement repeated in cookbook after cookbook as if it were a fact. Yet in older cookbooks, especially the ones based on European cooking techniques, salting meat before cooking is done routinely, without loss of juices. In fact, if you do it right, meat that is salted before cooking can be much juicier and more succulent than meat that isn’t salted! So who’s right? Is it the people who say don’t salt, or the old-fashioned cooks who say you SHOULD salt? They BOTH are.

MORE.........

http://www.readthisarticle.com/index.php?page=article&article_id=46486

-Cp

08-31-2007, 04:00 PM

darin

08-31-2007, 04:03 PM

Nobody knows how to handle or work meat, like -Cp. :)

glockmail

08-31-2007, 04:59 PM

Abbey Marie

08-31-2007, 05:07 PM

E.coli from butchers? How much per lb. is filet of butcher?

-Cp

08-31-2007, 05:18 PM

E.coli from butchers? How much per lb. is filet of butcher?

Eh??

glockmail

09-07-2007, 06:03 AM

About salting.......I think this explains it well....

MORE.........

http://www.readthisarticle.com/index.php?page=article&article_id=46486

Easier to read version of the same article:

http://www.contentmart.com/articles/28424/1/Should-You-Salt-Meat-Before-Cooking-Yes-If/Page1.html

I salted NY strip for 30 hours and grilled last night. Grilled very hot and flipped 3 times for a pefect medium rare. Worchestershire sauce on top of every flip. My kids couldn't get enough of it. :salute: