What a bunch of clowns!

[truthmatters]

4

[darin]

God Bless them in exercising their right to Free Speech.

[Pale Rider]

I just wish that groups like the black panthers would face the same type of opposition when they meet and holler black power, like they did on TV during the Duke LaCrosse players hearings. I didn't see any numb nuts dressed like clowns shouting black flower.

Just another double standard. The only racist in America is the white man.

[truthmatters]

4

[OCA]

Hey truth, do you hold the same disdain for groups such as La Raza and Black Panthers when they hold rallies screaming similar slogans? Or is your disdain held specifically for American caucasians?

[Pale Rider]

I agree it was an excellent example of how free speech can work!

Oh yeah... it's all great just so long as it's being done to whitey.

Why don't they do it to blackey, or browney?

[OCA]

I agree it was an excellent example of how free speech can work!

Liar.

You thought you were going to get away with a little Whitey bashing here but got caught off guard when people called you on your blatant hypocricy.

You are a joke.

[truthmatters]

4

[truthmatters]

4

[OCA]

As anyone can tell you truth i'm pretty much against all racism but I ain't gonna let you bash one group for exercising their free speech while you let others on the opposite end of the political spectrum get away with it.

I say If the Klan wants to march I say let them march wherever they damn well please.

[nevadamedic]

Are you sugesting the clowns did not have the right to speak and the KKK did?

These were two groups of people expressing their views at the same time.

Lets rememeber here the KKK guys were the ones to lose it and attack physically.

You have issues...............

[OCA]

what the ....... are you a KKK member?

Yes Truth, i'm the Grand Dragon of Westminster, MD............you really have no clue on how to debate, do you?

Your tired old liberal tactics won't work here, this is an evolved board well past your discarded and impotent modes of debate.

[truthmatters]

4

[OCA]

Are you sugesting the clowns did not have the right to speak and the KKK did?

These were two groups of people expressing their views at the same time.

Lets rememeber here the KKK guys were the ones to lose it and attack physically.

Who attacked physically is of no matter here.

The clowns were only there to limit the free speech rights of the Klan pure and simple.

[truthmatters]

4

[truthmatters]

4

[Pale Rider]

Are you sugesting the clowns did not have the right to speak and the KKK did?

These were two groups of people expressing their views at the same time.

Lets rememeber here the KKK guys were the ones to lose it and attack physically.

Don't play games... answer my fucking question...

WHY DON'T THEY SHOUT THE SAME SHIT WHEN THE BLACK PANTHERS SHOUT BLACK POWER? WHY IS IT SUCH A DAMN GREAT THING WHEN IT'S AGAINST WHITEY?

You got something against WHITE PEOPLE?

[OCA]

Where did I say the KKK doesnt have a right to march?

I posted and article adn said I thought it didnt get better than this.

where did I say anywhere anything saying anyone did not have the same rights?

Its written all over your post, tell you what, post an article with equal condemnation from a La Raza march or demonstration, Black Panther march or demonstration and while you are at it condemn the biggest racist group of them all............The Rainbow Coalition.

Do us a favor and quit playing the innocent poster in every fucking thread you get involved in, your simpleton act is wearing thin.

[nevadamedic]

Someone put Pale back on the leash, he in kill mode tonight. :laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[truthmatters]

4

[truthmatters]

4

[Pale Rider]

You seem to forget that they get to deside when and what they say not you.

ANSWER - THE - FUCKING - QUESTION - JACKASS....

You are NOT going to get away from THIS one....

[OCA]

How did the clowns limit anyones right?

It was the KKK who tried to stop the clowns from speaking their point of view by attacking them physically.

Why did they feel the need to show up? Does the Klan show up everytime a Jewish group, Black group etc. etc. has a rally, press conference etc. etc.?

Quit playing the dumbfuck, you know they were there to shout out the Klan's speech, that was the only reason this group of bimbo housewives were there.

Why do you hate White people?

[OCA]

You dont seem to get it do you?

Its called civility and having the self control not to fly into a tyrade every time you hear opinions differing from your own.

Its a good thing and maybe some day you will grow up enough to understand that.


You are evading the issue you fucking moron, the Klan is not to blame, the Klan wants the ability to use public spaces to express its views under the first amendment, the other group showed up solely to try and limit that right.

The Klan never attempts to limit other groups from peacefully assembling. IMO the Klan had reasonable cause to kick a little ass, i'd do the same if some douchebags were trying to take away my civil rights too.

[truthmatters]

4

[OCA]

Truth stepped in a pile of shit on this one, gonna get her ass whipped tonight.........not that it hasn't been spanked all week.

[truthmatters]

4

[truthmatters]

4

[OCA]

No they were there to express their opinion that the KKK message was silly and did a great job of it.

There is room in America for more than one opinion.


Simply put you are lying and you know you are lying.

I agree the KKK message is silly but i'll take a bullet for their right to peacefully assemble and say it.

The other group was there simply to agitate, would they have been there if the Klan wasn't there?

[OCA]

Ids that why many of you wont answer threads after I present the documentation that what some of you say is not backed by fact?

Shittttttttttt! You must be delirious, you've been getting answered on your flimsy docs all week, you just don't like being refuted is all so as a defense mechanism you deny it happened.

[truthmatters]

4

[OCA]

They have as much right as the KKK does to be there.

The key word is peacefully just like you said.

The clowns did it peacefully and the KKK did not.

Would the clowns have been there if the Klan hadn't?

Were the clowns not there solely to provoke? If so that is limiting the Klan's civil rights.

[truthmatters]

4

[Pale Rider]

No they were there to express their opinion that the KKK message was silly and did a great job of it.

There is room in America for more than one opinion.

So, since you REFUSE to answer my question, and the whole board will be able read through this thread and see that, what you are saying is, that YOU BELIEVE, that when a group of dumb ass mother fucking piss bags show up to try and silence WHITE PEOPLE, it's a GREAT FUCKING DAY, but you DON'T believe it's good for BLACKS, or MEXICANS, or ANY OTHER RACE to get the same treatment.

YOU'RE A FUCKING RACIST!

[truthmatters]

4

[OCA]

It does not matter wether they were there because of the KKK or not they have just as much right to be there.

Speaking out in opposition is not provoking violence it is freedom of speech.

The KKK would have had no problem if they had not resorted to violence.

It does matter, answer the question and stop evading................would the clowns have been there if the KKK had not been there? No, the clowns were simply there to taunt and provoke, I guess you think the flour thing wasn't provocative.

Would you be as supportive of the Klan as you are of the Clowns if the Klan showed up at a JDL rally with an opposing viewpoint, wearing hooknoses and throwing Manischewitz in the air?

[OCA]

Truth hates caucasians............well, caucasians on the right side of the political spectrum.

[OCA]

No they will read this and realise you dont understand freedom of speech


Does freedom of speech include unsolicited provocation in your book?

[truthmatters]

4

[Pale Rider]

No they were there to express their opinion that the KKK message was silly and did a great job of it.

There is room in America for more than one opinion.

Yeah we all get it now... the "WHITE" Klans message is silly, but the "black" panther's isn't, the "brown" la raza's isn't, etc., just "WHITEY" is "SILLY."

You're a fucking racist.

[truthmatters]

4

[truthmatters]

4

[Pale Rider]

No they will read this and realise you dont understand freedom of speech

No, they'll read this and see that YOU hate any speech coming from "WHITE" people. If they're blacks, or browns, or clowns just there to start shit, that's all fine and dandy. YOU think ONLY the WHITE people should have no say.... or in your words... "they're silly."

Yeah... freedom of speech... just so long as it alines with your warped liberal handbook right? "WHITE" people aren't supposed to be proud of who they are. Only blacks and mexicans and clowns can do that. Yeah... freedom of speech.

You're one fucked up little twit.

[OCA]

Your silly infantile insults fool no one with more than two brain cells to rub together.

Well that is unless the insults are spot on such as the case is here. Why don't you poll the board to find out if they think that was a well placed and well timed insult completely appropriate given your views.

[OCA]

why are you so concerned with the words of one group and NOT the violence of the other?

Because without the unsolicited provocation there would have been ZERO violence.

Why do you not want the Klan to exercise its first amendment rights? Couldn't be because you hate caucasians, could it?

[truthmatters]

4

[Pale Rider]

How 'bout you suck on this...

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1218/1280988506_af085bd3de_o.jpg

[OCA]

You are having problems understanding the law and puplic property and speech.

Why is that?

Pot meet kettle.

[Pale Rider]

Pot meet kettle.

It ain't even that brother... this little twirp hates white people. It's written in almost everything she's said here, and what I've put to her, and she hasn't denied one damn bit of it.

She's a fucking racist and hates white people. The whole board can see it right here. Four pages of her racist shit, and she's a bigot.

[OCA]

It ain't even that brother... this little twirp hates white people. It's written in almost everything she's said here, and what I've put to her, and she hasn't denied one damn bit of it.

She's a fucking racist and hates white people. The whole board can see it right here. Four pages of her racist shit, and she's a bigot.

You know i've been so busy replying that I hadn't noticed that Liesmatter hasn't denied a hate for caucasians.........not once.

[Pale Rider]

You know i've been so busy replying that I hadn't noticed that Liesmatter hasn't denied a hate for caucasians.........not once.

Nope. I asked her REPEATEDLY why it is she thinks it's fine for clowns to show up taunting "silly" white people, but not blacks or mexicans. She can't answer that. That leaves me to believe she hates white people, so that's what I said, and she HAS NOT denied that.

She thought she was being real cute posting this story, but it really came around and bit her in the ass and exposed her as a racist and a bigot.

[truthmatters]

4

[Pale Rider]

You guys are defendig the KKK and Im not so you think I hate white people?

No I dont hate white people or any kind of people even you guys.

If I were to hate white people I would have to hate the better part of my family.

You guys have done vertually nothing but call me names.

You forget who got arrested for what in this situtation.

The laws of this country agree with my position that speech is OK attacking people because they dont agree with you is a criminal offense.

Im on the side of the law here and you guys are speaking out against the laws of our country.

Evade, evade, and then evade some more. YOU are racist. YOU believe that since the KKK are "WHITE", it was alright for a bunch of DUMB ASSES dressed up like clowns to HARASS them and try to SHOUT THEM DOWN... those "silly white people."

You are a racist, and CAN'T EVEN DENY IT!

Had it been the black panthers, or la raza, you'd have had a fit if someone mocked one of their assemblies.

You are a racist.

[truthmatters]

4

[truthmatters]

4

[Missileman]

It's a real shame that every group of hate mongers doesn't have a counter group who follows them around to harrass the shit out of them.

PR, you seem genuinely concerned that the inbred, slack-jawed, mouth-breathers of the KKK are being treated unfairly. Why don't you exercise YOUR rights of assembly and speech and mount a counter-protest at a Black Panther or La Raza rally to even things up a bit.

[Pale Rider]

hahahahahahahahahahhahahaHA!

You are a crack up!

did you even read my post?

Go stand on your head, you'll be the crack up, retard.

[Pale Rider]

It's a real shame that every group of hate mongers doesn't have a counter group who follows them around to harrass the shit out of them.

PR, you seem genuinely concerned that the inbred, slack-jawed, mouth-breathers of the KKK are being treated unfairly. Why don't you exercise YOUR rights of assembly and speech and mount a counter-protest at a Black Panther or La Raza rally to even things up a bit.

And here comes the peanut gallery.... why did I know you would show up... :fu:

[Missileman]

And here comes the peanut gallery.... why did I know you would show up... :fu:

Didn't you just jump someone's ass for evading the question? My question was reasonable, it wasn't a personal attack, and yet here you go with an FU. What was that bullshit you were saying about the unfriendly shit being started by other people?

[manu1959]

How did the clowns limit anyones right?

It was the KKK who tried to stop the clowns from speaking their point of view by attacking them physically.

what was the clowns purpose?....why did they go there?

[manu1959]

It's a real shame that every group of hate mongers doesn't have a counter group who follows them around to harrass the shit out of them.

PR, you seem genuinely concerned that the inbred, slack-jawed, mouth-breathers of the KKK are being treated unfairly. Why don't you exercise YOUR rights of assembly and speech and mount a counter-protest at a Black Panther or La Raza rally to even things up a bit.

because you would get you ass beat and you would be charged with a hate crime posthumously....

[Pale Rider]

Didn't you just jump someone's ass for evading the question? My question was reasonable, it wasn't a personal attack, and yet here you go with an FU. What was that bullshit you were saying about the unfriendly shit being started by other people?

I don't give a shit about your question. YOU are the WORST PERSON ON THE BOARD for twisting, spinning, deflecting, ignoring, and otherwise just bullshitting your way into believing whatever it is you try to spread. NEVER ONCE have I seen you admit you were wrong, even though you were owned lock, stock and barrel. YOU are not worth arguing with.

I've made my point here without you. You're a day late and a dollar short. Argue with someone else, if you can find anybody that will. Pretty much everybody here knows how you are, and they're sick of you, just like me.

[avatar4321]

It's a real shame that every group of hate mongers doesn't have a counter group who follows them around to harrass the shit out of them.

PR, you seem genuinely concerned that the inbred, slack-jawed, mouth-breathers of the KKK are being treated unfairly. Why don't you exercise YOUR rights of assembly and speech and mount a counter-protest at a Black Panther or La Raza rally to even things up a bit.

It's not obvious? Because he doesnt want to infringe on their right to free speech.

[nevadamedic]

I don't give a shit about your question. YOU are the WORST PERSON ON THE BOARD for twisting, spinning, deflecting, ignoring, and otherwise just bullshitting your way into believing whatever it is you try to spread. NEVER ONCE have I seen you admit you were wrong, even though you were owned lock, stock and barrel. YOU are not worth arguing with.

I've made my point here without you. You're a day late and a dollar short. Argue with someone else, if you can find anybody that will. Pretty much everybody here knows how you are, and they're sick of you, just like me.

Nope, your wrong there. Psycho is the worst for twisting, spinning, deflecting, ignoring and otherwise bullshitting.

[Gunny]

It's a real shame that every group of hate mongers doesn't have a counter group who follows them around to harrass the shit out of them.

PR, you seem genuinely concerned that the inbred, slack-jawed, mouth-breathers of the KKK are being treated unfairly. Why don't you exercise YOUR rights of assembly and speech and mount a counter-protest at a Black Panther or La Raza rally to even things up a bit.

The point is, why should the KKK be singled out and treated as the only racist hate group? Every ethnicity has one. But only the white ones are villfied. Louis Farrakham is just speaking up for his poor, downtrodden peeps.

[KarlMarx]

I tried repping Pale, but I couldn't... so here are my two cents

We all are susceptible to racism and hatred. No one is exempt. As the Bible says "All have fallen short"...

That being said, there seems to be a double standard. White people are scrutinized for racist remarks and acts but, many times, clowns like Louis Farrakhan get a pass.

Racism is racism regardless of the color of the racist's skin.

[truthmatters]

4

[jimnyc]

What was the KKKs purpose?

You dont get it do you?

It's you who doesn't get it. They went to exercise their freedom of speech. The other idiots showed up and tried to harass or out-shout them. What started as a peaceful gathering turned otherwise because the idiots had a different idea.

Why aren't you condemning the idiots for not allowing the KKK to speak in an unimpeded manner? The idiots could have protested elsewhere or at a later time but they CHOSE to confront the KKK.

Personally, I would have loved to witness the clowns getting a few ass kickings!

[truthmatters]

4

[truthmatters]

4

[jimnyc]

How did the LAW deal with it?

It seems many of you are on the wrong side of the arguement according to the law.

I don't give a rat's ass how the law dealt with it. It's obvious what the intent of the idiotic clowns was, which was to impede the speech of the KKK. If it were me staging a protest, and some clowns stepped in my way, I would be paying a small fine for littering the streets with a few red noses and funny costumes.

[truthmatters]

4

[jimnyc]

You people keep misunderstanding what freedom of speech is.

Where did I say that the assclowns didn't have a right to their free speech? Why do you insist on putting words in my mouth?

They have the freedom to counter protest, and then I would have the freedom to kick their asses.

Why can you not understand that?

I'll take my punishment for doing so, I know the law quite well. But I'll be damned if I allow my speech to be drowned out by others without a fight.

Can you comprehend now?

[truthmatters]

4

[jimnyc]

Would you also react the same to the church group?

If they were impeding my ability to speak freely - absolutely!

Apparently you DIDN'T comprehend what I wrote.

[truthmatters]

4

[jimnyc]

So how were these people impeding that speech of the KKK?

They were merely making fun of their message NOT impeding it?

Look up the definition of "impede". I don't have time to debate with someone who can't comprehend the simplest of terms.

[truthmatters]

4

[Nukeman]

I would like to throw my 2 cents worth in here for a moment. I think Truth is missing the point. Everyone has a RIGHT to free speach but with that RIGHT also comes a certain degree of responsibility. Just because you dont agree with a message does not mean you have the right to DROWN out those you dont agree with by doing so you are effectively muzzelling them just as if you placed your hand upon their mouth..

Here is a lovely little article I found and I ask you Truth who do you side with on this instance??

http://www.erinoconnor.org/archives/2006/04/brown_english_p.html


Brown English professor endorses heckler's veto
On April 8. Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton paid a visit to Brown University, where she delivered a talk on women as leaders. About seven minutes in, Clinton's speech was disrupted by protesters: A man stood and began yelling "Is it leadership to support the war?" while several others began parroting anti-war slogans and displaying a banner that read, "Clinton War Senator." Clinton kept talking, and security escorted the man and several other protesters out.

All in all, the hoopla lasted about five minutes, according to The Brown Daily Herald; campus officials approached the man, explained that he did not have the right to disrupt the talk, and asked him to comply with university policy by being quiet. When he refused, they removed him from the auditorium. Michael Chapman, vice president for public affairs and university relations, issued a clear and reasonable statement to the Herald: Protests are "a necessary and acceptable means of expression at Brown," he said; "Protests become unacceptable, however, when it obstructs the basic exchange of ideas, such as halting a lecture or debate or any public forum or trying to seize control of a forum, such as Senator Clinton's, for one's own purpose." Chapman's wording comes from Brown's Protest and Demonstration Guidelines.

To its credit, the Herald ran an embarrassed editorial deploring the rudeness and disrespect of the protestors, noting that their misguided and ill-conceived behavior only served to diminish their own cause:



The protests that took place during the lecture, while presumably an attempt to advance dialogue on the war in Iraq and Clinton's senate votes relating to the conflict, succeeded only in threatening to deprive both Brown and Providence from politically relevant speakers in the future. Moreover, those attempting to disrupt Clinton's talk cheapened the efforts of the coalition of activists who protested Clinton's policies prior to her appearance. Members of Rhode Island's chapter of Military Families Speak Out and others articulated their opposition to Clinton without attempting to take the stage away from the senator or hinder community members' ability to hear her views firsthand.

Unfortunately, it is all too easy to conflate the two separate demonstrations. Jacque Amoureux GS said she fears local television stations may have even committed this error in their coverage of the event. Even if that is not the case, audience members and others inevitably viewed the pre-speech demonstrations differently after four protesters crossed the line and imposed on Clinton's talk.

It was unrealistic for those behind the disruption to believe their efforts would enact any sort of positive change. A seasoned politician, Clinton certainly has seen such outbursts before and knows not to engage when they arise. Had they instead paid attention to the senator's speech, even if it did not directly address their specific concerns, those behind the disruption could have possibly gained a new perspective that would have enriched their arguments against her policies. But they refused to wait for an appropriate time and place to voice their opposition.

As a result, their arguments are no stronger, and their position as anti-war activists is severely diminished. In five minutes, they managed to compromise positions they have likely been fine-tuning for months. We only hope they didn't also manage to deprive the Brown community of future appearances from other public figures - or respectful anti-war protesters of their voices.


To his discredit, Brown English professor William Keach responded with a letter to the editor of the Herald deploring its failure to understand the importance of the heckler's veto to suppressing speech that offends:

The only thing more predictable than The Herald's denunciation of antiwar protesters at Hillary Clinton's speech on April 8 was your editorial's ("A step backward," April 10) silence regarding the actual political substance of what the protesters were doing and saying.

Are there any circumstances in which you would support the disruption of a public appearance by a wealthy, powerful politician who acquiesced to a genocidal war based on lies and imperialist arrogance? Do you have anything at all to say about the content of the heckler's question: "Is it leadership to support the war?" Your claim that the antiwar cause was "severely diminished" simply because a group of activists were willing to interrupt the polite decorum of a campus event and speak truth to power isn't credible to me.

To those who protested last Saturday night, I say "congratulations and solidarity!"


In other words, as far as Keach is concerned, it's fine to shut down a speaker through heckling, just as long as the speaker's politics are wrong and the heckler's are right.

[jimnyc]

Is insult all anyone ever does arround here instead of debate?

Did you look up the definition as I asked? No, you didn't. That's why you get insulted... You make comments that are retarded because you are uneducated.

If someone is at a podium making a speech, and people in the crowd start speaking back while that person is speaking - they are impeding on that persons ability to speak. When someone is staging a peaceful protest, and others try to "outspeak" them, they are impeding on their ability to speak.

Get it now?

[truthmatters]

4

[jimnyc]

I know what the word means.

Obviously, you don't!

I'm done with you. If I want to argue with mental midgets I will stroll on down to my local elementary school with those more informed than yourself.

[truthmatters]

4

[jimnyc]

Wow was I wrong.

As you are in 99% of what you post.

I have good new for you though. I just spoke with a 2nd grader at the school I referred to earlier, he said he would be happy to tutor you if you're interested.

[truthmatters]

4

[jimnyc]

And it's obvious that a conversation with a 2nd grader would be more intellectually stimulating. You can't keep with the discussion, you can't spell & your grammar is horrid.

Maybe I'll run to the pet store and buy a monkey to converse with. He may not be able to reply, but at least I won't be banging my head against a wall after hearing his inane replies.

[Hagbard Celine]

And it's obvious that a conversation with a 2nd grader would be more intellectually stimulating. You can't keep with the discussion, you can't spell & your grammar is horrid.

Maybe I'll run to the pet store and buy a monkey to converse with. He may not be able to reply, but at least I won't be banging my head against a wall after hearing his inane replies.

Yeah, but with a monkey you always run the risk of having feces hurled at you from across the room.

[truthmatters]

4

[Nukeman]

A speech at an auditorium is not comparable to a march down the street.

This was a public street and the KKK did not own it or have an audience who came specifically to hear them chant white power and as a matter of fact it was the towns people who took part in the clown march.

It just blows me away ,I posted this article TRUELY thinking that MOST of you on here would find something to finnally agree with me on.

I really thought you would all find it funny.

Wow was I wrong.Free Speach is Free Speach!!!! Regardless if its in a auditorium, an ampitheater or in the middle of the street. Why would 4 walls and ceiling make any difference??

The KKK own the public street as any other.

Dont get me wrong I dont like the KKK or anything they stand for but they do have the right to assemble peacefully without being VERBALY attacked or censord bu others drowning them out.

You are missing the point that when you use your voice to drown someone else out you are effectively BLOCKING their ability to SPEAK...

[truthmatters]

4

[hjmick]

Christ, this is some of the silliest shit I've read in a long time.

Fact: The KKK is a racist organization (just ask Robert Byrd). I find them disgusting and their rhetoric is vile filth. However, they have every right, under the Constitution, to their views and to voice their views in any way short of using violence. I defend their right to do so.

Fact: The clowns showed up at this march with the express intent to inhibit and infringe on the right to free speech that the KKK wanted to exercise, there is no other way to interpret their actions, none. Their tactics were designed to provoke those with whom the disagreed. Well, congratulations, they succeeded.

Fact: The KKK over reacted, crossed the line, got arrested. That is how it should be. But let's not pretend that is not exactly what the clowns hoped for. That would be disingenuous and intellectually dishonest. They got the reaction they hoped for, mission accomplished.

Fact: There are several organizations comprised of minorities that are just as, if not more, racist than the KKK. These groups have rallies and march just like the KKK where they spew just as much hateful rhetoric. These groups are virtually ignored by the media. Those people who speak out against these groups are called bigots, xenophobic, racists, and more. Frequently these minority racist groups are embraced by the media, the liberal left, and others who suffer from "white guilt" as examples of community leadership.

Fact: You, truthmatters, knew exactly how your original post would be recieved, to pretend otherwise would be, again, disingenuous and intellectually dishonest. You knew exactly how people would react, you knew who would come down on which side of the discussion. Just as I know you recognize that, while within their rights, the clowns were there to inhibit, impede, and otherwise prevent the KKK from exercising their equally important right to free speech as well as provoke a confrontation.

Congratulations, mission accomplished.

[Nukeman]

It is not the same.

The people who came to the speech by Clinton came there to listen to Clinton and that is why she had a microphone.
It was an event in which they reserved the right to eject anyone who was keeping the audience from Hearing the Schedualed speaker.

Who was that KKKs audience?

Who spent money to secure a permit to have an event where people came to listen to the KKK?

You see if the KKK were at an event where they schedualed a speaker and paid for the stage and Mic and security then the clowns would have been ejected for disrupting the event huh?So what your telling me is that only people that pay a fee are capable of having true freedom of speach without fear of being interupted or impeded in any manner.

Last time I checked groups usually have to secure permits and pay for clean up and police if they are having a PUBLIC presentation. Do you know that the KKK didn't have topay for permits and if they did does this change your mind as to how they should have been treated??????

[truthmatters]

4

[Nukeman]

I never said the KKK did not have to get one of those permits.

You seem to be forgetting that the law is settled on this and that that is why the KKK guys who attacked the clowns were arrested and the clowns were not.

What whould happen when someone has a march down a public street like the KKK did?

Do you think people standing in the puplic should not be allowed to say anything?Theres this word I like to use, CIVIL!!!! You have to show a certain amount of civility or this country is in the toilet. You may not agree with what you are hearing but you darn sure should be civil about your protest.

I am in no way disputing the fact that the KKK was in the wrong for attacking the "clowns" , I would however say they brought a little of it upon themselves.

I have a questin and I want a STRAIGHT answer. Would it be appropriate for the same KKK groupe to march down the street during a black expo/pride day with a black man in effigy being hung in a tree.. Or burning a cross while marching in the same pride day.... Both are forms of freedom of speach are they not????

Would the blacks be justified in taking their anger out on these offensive idiots or not??

[Nukeman]

Christ, this is some of the silliest shit I've read in a long time.

Fact: The KKK is a racist organization (just ask Robert Byrd). I find them disgusting and their rhetoric is vile filth. However, they have every right, under the Constitution, to their views and to voice their views in any way short of using violence. I defend their right to do so.

Fact: The clowns showed up at this march with the express intent to inhibit and infringe on the right to free speech that the KKK wanted to exercise, there is no other way to interpret their actions, none. Their tactics were designed to provoke those with whom the disagreed. Well, congratulations, they succeeded.

Fact: The KKK over reacted, crossed the line, got arrested. That is how it should be. But let's not pretend that is not exactly what the clowns hoped for. That would be disingenuous and intellectually dishonest. They got the reaction they hoped for, mission accomplished.

Fact: There are several organizations comprised of minorities that are just as, if not more, racist than the KKK. These groups have rallies and march just like the KKK where they spew just as much hateful rhetoric. These groups are virtually ignored by the media. Those people who speak out against these groups are called bigots, xenophobic, racists, and more. Frequently these minority racist groups are embraced by the media, the liberal left, and others who suffer from "white guilt" as examples of community leadership.

Fact: You, truthmatters, knew exactly how your original post would be recieved, to pretend otherwise would be, again, disingenuous and intellectually dishonest. You knew exactly how people, you knew who would come down on which side of the discussion. Just as I know you recognize that, while within their rights, the clowns were there to inhibit, impede, and otherwise prevent the KKK from exercising their equally important right to free speech as well as provoke a confrontation.

Congratulations, mission accomplished.
You must spread some rep around before giving it to hjmick again!!!

Sorry tried to rep yaa

[truthmatters]

4

[jimnyc]

We are not talking apropriate now are we, we are talking legally.

Yes the clan could march during a expo/pride day and if they were attacked by the other group guess who would get arrested?

No they would not be justified to attack anyone.

I notice you conveniently ignored hjmick's response. Was it too many big words he used, or the fact that he made your entire debate in this thread look foolish?

[stephanie]

I notice you conveniently ignored hjmick's response. Was it too many big words he used, or the fact that he made your entire debate in this thread look foolish?

I think they ignored it, because it made absolute perfect sense..


Great post, hjmick....:clap:

[stephanie]

Tm, thinks it's perfectly fine that the clowns(and let me tell you that's a very fitting theme for them), can interrupt a groups freedom of speech...

Yet, here's how the hateful left reacts, when a group of everyday people and Veterans, are gearing up for a peaceful march to show support for the troops...

=======================================
Veterans Respond to Pro-War Zealots
by DemMarineVet
Mon Aug 27, 2007 at 04:00:37 AM PDT

A while back I posted a diary about the pro-war extremist group Move America Forward. This diary talked about Move America Forward's rally which is planned in Carson City, NV on September 3rd. It also had a video of Melanie Morgan the leader of Move America Forward. Melanie is the only conservative in San Fransisco and the crazy woman who suggested that the editor of the New York Times should be sent to the gas chamber for reporting on violations of our civil liberties by the Bush Administration. Well Nevada's Democratic Veterans & Military Families Caucus has been organizing a counter rally aimed at pushing back these out of state extremists from our state. They of course want to try and intimidate our senior Senator Harry Reid (who just happens to be the Senate Majority Leader). More after the fold

DemMarineVet's diary :: ::
Melanie Morgan made my blood boil with this video. So I enlisted one of our Iraq vets to film a counter reply.



How about some common sense again? We are meeting them in Carson City. They are probably coming to a town near you... Why don't you join them?

Well now, can ya feel the love and respect for other's to have their freedom of speech....:poke:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/8/27/63651/2474

[truthmatters]

4

[stephanie]

Congradulations to you for getting it ALL wrong.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/alaskamomma/tickledpink.gif

[truthmatters]

4

[Pale Rider]

"Tm, thinks it's perfectly fine that the clowns(and let me tell you that's a very fitting theme for them), can interrupt a groups freedom of speech..."

The law agrees with me.

Your "law" is that if you don't agree with what someone has to say, get together a bunch of fucking clowns to shout them down and throw flour. THAT is YOUR law. What do you base YOUR law on? Simple... YOU HATE WHITE PEOPLE WHO OPENLY DECLARE THEIR PRIDE IN THEIR RACE. That's what this WHOLE FUCKING THING boils down to here. You don't give a damn about free speech. The only twisted tidbit you keep coming back to is that one of your precious mother fucking moron clowns got BITCH SLAPPED for INTERUPTING A PEACEFUL GATHERING BY WHITE PEOPLE.

YOU are a RACIST and a BIGOT.

[truthmatters]

4

[Pale Rider]

You can misstate the law if you like but it is the LAW of the United States of American.

I stated YOUR law... the law against WHITE PEOPLE.

[truthmatters]

4

[Pale Rider]

I think you missunderstand.

What you are saying by saying I am bad for believing in the freedom of speech as enumerated is that Our countries laws is racist and bad.

I am defending the United States laws and you are saying they are racist and bad?

Is that really what you wnat to stand for?

NO.... YOU don't understand... AND you don't believe in FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

It's been explained to you already here SIX DIFFERENT WAYS by HALF THE BOARD, and you just IGNORE IT.

The ISSUE here is NOT that one of your precious clowns got bitch slapped by the KKK, the ISSUE is that your precious fucking clowns showed up with the SOLE INTENT TO SHOUT DOWN AND OTHERWISE IMPEDE THE KKK's FREEDOM TO SPEAK. And by siding with your precious fucking clowns, YOU HAVE DEMONSTRATED TO US ALL THAT YOU BELIEVE ONE GROUP SHOWING UP TO SHOUT DOWN OR OTHERWISE IMPEDE ANOTHER GROUPS ABILITY TO FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS OK IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH THEM.

THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE FREEDOM OF SPEECH ENDS!

GET IT NOW? My God....... how mother fucking DENSE can you be?

[truthmatters]

4

[hjmick]

Me too

See, people with different views can agree on some things.


BULLSHIT! You can not "know" their intent can you and it is completely disengenuios for you to claim you "know".I think they showed up to present an opposing view which was their complete legal right

BULLSHIT! You can not "know" their intent can you and it is completely disengenuios for you to claim you "know".I think they showed up to present an opposing view which was their complete legal right

Come on, really? A person can easily ascertain the intent of an individual or group based on the outcome of the event. Why did they dress as clowns? To mock them and make them angry (as if they aren't angy enough as it is). Why did they echo nearly every chant the KKK used with slightly different words? To mock them and make them angry. They succeeded and the situation escalated into a physical confrontation. To expect nothing less from a group of people with a history of violence would be ignorant.


Do you really think no opposing views have ever showed up to their marchs? Why dont you do as manfrommaine sugested and show up and exersize your right if you are so concerned?

I'm sure opposing views do show up at their events, but how often do we hear of them erupting in violence? As far showing up at their events "if I am so concerned," that's just it, I'm not concerned. I couldn't possibly care less about any group of racists and I choose not to give them any validation by pretending I do.


BULLSHIT! You can not "know" my intent can you and it is completely disengenuios for you to claim you "know".You are completely wrong I truely thought this would be one subject where I would find some like minds(I guess I overestimated some of the people here)I am fairly new to this site and maybe YOU knew but I did not.I think the clowns were there to present an opposing view and not to get physically harmed or to STOP anyone from speaking

You're right, I can't read minds.

However, it is possible to determine certain things by looking at the evidence available. True you are realtively new here, you joined in August and have over 800 posts thus far, perhaps not enough to conclude much, but, as you know, you and I, as well as many others here, frequent and post at another board. Based on the number of posts there and here, based on the tone of many of those posts, and based on the people we both know frequent both boards (many of whom check in several times daily and have participated in this thread) any reasonable person would be able to conclude that your initial post would, and was intended to, stimulate a reaction. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with this, in my estimation that is what message boards are for, stimulating reactions and discussions. What I object to is your faux shock at the reactions you have recieved.

I've read many of your posts. You are not naive nor are you stupid. You do not strike me as ignorant but rather relatively well informed. You have some strong beliefs that you readily defend. I respect that. It is for these reasons and the afore mentioned that I find it difficult to believe that you are surprised by the reaction you got in this thread.

I do not believe that the clowns thought they would be physically assaulted either, this makes them one of two things, naive or stupid. Pick one. If I were to go to a rally of bigots, and if I were to, what some may percieve as, taunt and mock said group, I, for one, would not be surprised assaulted in some fashion. Especially if the group in question has a long history of violence.

[Pale Rider]

How did the laws of our land treat the situation?

That will give you a clue as to whos side I am on and whos side you are on as far as the laws of the United States of America is concerned.

You see you can put really big letters in your post and give me little red squares but you can not change that fact now can you?


Another though for you , the clown group and the KKK all had to have a permit to have a march and the local govenment gave them both one huh?

Oh for Christ sake.... JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP! YOU are a fucking MORON!

[OCA]

"Tm, thinks it's perfectly fine that the clowns(and let me tell you that's a very fitting theme for them), can interrupt a groups freedom of speech..."

The law agrees with me.

I can't take it anymore!

The law said that the Klan was wrong to attack, the law did not say that it was ok for the clowns to infringe on the Klan's first amendment rights which by all accounts they did. The clowns were not there to present an opposing viewpoint, they were there SOLELY TO INCITE AND PROVOKE.

Congratulations though, the law in this case was pc.........the clowns should've been removed from the speech long before this ever happened if the cops had had a clue.

[OCA]

You can misstate the law if you like but it is the LAW of the United States of American.

What the fuck is the United States Of AmericaN?

Seriously, I think you are either uneducated or not American.

[truthmatters]

4

[OCA]

I knew you were anti freedom of speech!

As are you if its a viewpoint you don't agree with.

[Pale Rider]

As are you if its a viewpoint you don't agree with.

Bingo.

[Pale Rider]

I knew you were anti freedom of speech!

You've already said your piece, and you have nothing more anybody wants or needs to hear. You are a moron liberal pinhead.

[truthmatters]

4

[avatar4321]

I can't take it anymore!

The law said that the Klan was wrong to attack, the law did not say that it was ok for the clowns to infringe on the Klan's first amendment rights which by all accounts they did. The clowns were not there to present an opposing viewpoint, they were there SOLELY TO INCITE AND PROVOKE.

Congratulations though, the law in this case was pc.........the clowns should've been removed from the speech long before this ever happened if the cops had had a clue.

i might also point out that incitement is not protected under the first amendment.

I am still not sure what is so difficult about this to understand. Truth has completely demonstrated that she is a racist. She is in favor of impeding the rights of the KKK, as repulsive as they are, but not the rights of other racist groups that favor minority groups. In fact, should anyone protest their racist attitudes, she would turn around and call the protestors racists and bigots.

Just another example of why she doesnt care about the truth.

[truthmatters]

4

[hjmick]

Life has may more nuances than an either or would you not agree? I think they thought the law would protect them and it did to some extent.


I thank you for your compliments and the civility is very refreshing.

Life is indeed nuanced, some things, however are predictable. One thing I have learned over the years is, while the law is intended to protect us all, it's not always able to respond as quickly as we'd like. Fortunately, those who committed the assualts were arrested and will now face those laws.

My guess is, were the opposing crowd to tone it down next time, the assualts may not happen. Then again, we are talking about the Klan.

As for the compliments and civility, no thanks are necessary. I may be biased, but I try to be fair, and I always try to be civil. It's the best way to be heard, IMO.

[truthmatters]

4

[darin]

← ↓ ↑ →

[Pale Rider]

Were the clowns sited for incitment of a riot?

They didn't incite a riot. They aggravated an opposing group and one of them got bitch slapped, which they richly deserved.

[truthmatters]

4

[Yurt]

I just wish that groups like the black panthers would face the same type of opposition when they meet and holler black power, like they did on TV during the Duke LaCrosse players hearings. I didn't see any numb nuts dressed like clowns shouting black flower.

Just another double standard. The only racist in America is the white man.

So true brother. I sometimes wonder if white people tend to just sit back and "wish" things to be ok. We have our nice homes/life, why rock the boat with some protest over something as "meaningless" as stupid people being racists against white people.

Problem is, this attitude, taken over a period of time and spread across the country, presents a problem. It becomes a double standard that no one is willing to talk about. I believe the phrase is: white guilt. That is fine, but if we just continue on in our proverbial white towers, the ever growing ivy will engulf out white tower and consume it. We can live with ivy, but we cannot let ivy consume us.

[truthmatters]

4

[Pale Rider]

how about people just beig Americans adn trusting the power the founders pput in our hands to solve our problems.

The momment we start thinking the country cant survive without changing our freedoms is the momment we cease to be the United States of America.

How about you getting an education?

[Pale Rider]

And how about morons dressed up like clowns, shouting and throwing flour, doing their level best to shout down, incite, and impede the ability of another groups free speech LEAVE THEM ALONE?

[truthmatters]

4

[Pale Rider]

It happened on may 26th and they would have called the ACLU to defend them already because everyone knows they are the only ones who would defend these guys if they had a real constitutional ground to stand on.

they didnt ,they dont and it did not happen.

You're full of shit. The aclu wouldn't go near the KKK under any circumstances.

You have no idea whether or not charges against the clowns have been filed. The KKK has a reason and the right to bring charges. It might have, and may still, happen.

[truthmatters]

4

[Gunny]

http://www.aclu.org/freespeech/protest/11081prs20010815.html

it would have already hit the news my friend.

Making another of your twisted, BS arguments I see. I'll bet if some "clowns" had done the same at a Nation of Islam rally it'd be a close call as to who squealed louder ... you or Farrakham.

[truthmatters]

4

[Gunny]

Kisses Gunny,

It happened in may and its almost september so I am sure if they had something to file they would have but the thing is these entities both had permits to be where they were and the only ones to break the law weere the KKK when they jumped some of the clowns.

The United States of America allows more than one voice to be heard and I still think its good for us all.

Which does not address my statement. Were positions reversed and the Nation of Islam or La Raza kicked some Klan Klown butt, you'd be swearing it was okay because the Klan is a racist organization.

newsflash ... they're ALL racist organizations, not just the white ones.

[truthmatters]

4

[nevadamedic]

You're full of shit. The aclu wouldn't go near the KKK under any circumstances.

You have no idea whether or not charges against the clowns have been filed. The KKK has a reason and the right to bring charges. It might have, and may still, happen.

Actually the ACLU has been going after all White Supremacy groups for years. They figure the can put a stop to them by attacking them financially which is a good idea, im surprised that the pea brains at the ACLU came up with that.

[Pale Rider]

it would have already hit the news my friend.

Sentences start by capitalizing the first letter of the first word. OK? And I'm not your friend.

Now don't just say it, prove nothing was ever filed.

[Missileman]

The point is, why should the KKK be singled out and treated as the only racist hate group? Every ethnicity has one. But only the white ones are villfied. Louis Farrakham is just speaking up for his poor, downtrodden peeps.

If you noticed, I posted that all of these racist groups should be harrassed into extinction.

[Pale Rider]

Just to reiterate, the clowns showed up to shout down, incite, and otherwise impede the ability of a group they opposed, as to silence them. liesmatters thinks this is freedom of speech. Her freedom of speech stops at anyone she disagrees with. As long as your someone trying to shout down, incite, or otherwise impede a white conservative voice, you're all fine and dandy.

[Pale Rider]

If you noticed, I posted that all of these racist groups should be harrassed into extinction.

Why? So the country could be taken over by shit stain liberals and illegal aliens?

[truthmatters]

4

[truthmatters]

4

[Missileman]

It's not obvious? Because he doesnt want to infringe on their right to free speech.

Well then, I suppose you're opposed to the groups that try to keep Phelps and company away from military funerals to exercise their right to free speech.

[Missileman]

Did you look up the definition as I asked? No, you didn't. That's why you get insulted... You make comments that are retarded because you are uneducated.

If someone is at a podium making a speech, and people in the crowd start speaking back while that person is speaking - they are impeding on that persons ability to speak. When someone is staging a peaceful protest, and others try to "outspeak" them, they are impeding on their ability to speak.

Get it now?

Freedom of speech does not equal guarantee of an audience or unfettered access to a microphone.

[Pale Rider]

I can prove it by saying that they had no grounds to file any such claim as their freedoms were not breached.

It's statements like these that splash you like the shot down plane you are. You can't prove shit.

[Pale Rider]

Wow someone sure hates democracy.

I hate clowns that shout down people and throw flour.

[truthmatters]

4

[truthmatters]

4

[Gunny]

If you noticed, I posted that all of these racist groups should be harrassed into extinction.

Why? They are entitled to be racist as you are to preach your crap against Christianity .... right? Or should YOU TOO be harrassed into extinction?

[Pale Rider]

and liberals and anyone who says what you dont like.

I'm not the one here posting stories about morons impeding the free speech of others here... YOU are.

[truthmatters]

4

[Pale Rider]

Prove me wrong go get the case they pressed.

I'm not the one that made the initial claim they didn't... YOU did. YOU prove the DIDN'T.

You just get yourself in deeper all the time.

[Gunny]

Noted: you are not my friend.

I can prove it by saying that they had no grounds to file any such claim as their freedoms were not breached.

They were harrassed; which IS against the law, and they were hampered from delivering their speech; which, most certainly IS infringing on their freedom of speech.

[truthmatters]

4

[Gunny]

They ACLU has defended the KKK before and I gave a link to it.


That's about as honest as saying the ACLU has defended Christians before too. Only when it suits them to, and only to blow smoke up people's asses.

[truthmatters]

4

[jimnyc]

Freedom of speech does not equal guarantee of an audience or unfettered access to a microphone.

And who said it did? I was explaining what "impede" meant to the resident dolt. Try and keep up with the thread before trying to prove me wrong about something I haven't said. Thanks.

[jimnyc]

I love it when laws work.

Now if we can only get you to comprehend it.

[Missileman]

And who said it did? I was explaining what "impede" meant to the resident dolt. Try and keep up with the thread before trying to prove me wrong about something I haven't said. Thanks.

The scenario you posted about a person speaking at a podium with an unruly audience falls within what I posted.

[Yurt]

Now if we can only get you to comprehend it.

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

[Missileman]

Why? They are entitled to be racist as you are to preach your crap against Christianity .... right? Or should YOU TOO be harrassed into extinction?

First of all, the last fucking thing I can be accused of is preaching. But if you feel it's necessary to stifle my pointing out the illogic of some religiously-based arguments and you think you might have a shot at harrassing me into silence, knock yourself out.

[truthmatters]

4

[Yurt]

“Those people who are uncomfortable in themselves are disagreeable to others.” William Hazlitt

Is that why are agree with most of us on this board?

:coffee:

[Missileman]

they were hampered from delivering their speech; which, most certainly IS infringing on their freedom of speech.

Negative. The KKK elected to hold their rally out in public. If a large number of townspeople had gathered and boo'd the idiot at the microphone, it would amount to the same thing. That a small group of women busted their chops is what's really chapping their asses.

[jimnyc]

“Those people who are uncomfortable in themselves are disagreeable to others.” William Hazlitt

Congratulations! You made your first post on this board without a spelling error! Ooops, didn't realize you copied/pasted someone else's words.

[jimnyc]

The scenario you posted about a person speaking at a podium with an unruly audience falls within what I posted.

That is correct. Your comment, although not 'exactly' what I was referring to, was indeed correct. I took my anger out on you because I'm used to talking to a simpleton throughout the day today. You have my apologies.

[truthmatters]

4

[Missileman]

That is correct. Your comment, although not 'exactly' what I was referring to, was indeed correct. I took my anger out on you because I'm used to talking to a simpleton throughout the day today. You have my apologies.

:beer:

[jimnyc]

Do you also comprehend you have just spent a great deal of time arguing the merits of the KKK beating people up because they disagree with them?

It is just amazing to me how so many on this sight think that it is an exapmle of justice?

I guess this site is just special that way.

Again with the comprehension. I outright stated that if I were in the exact situation that I would have kicked some clown ass. It took you all day long to get my point?

I'm not defending the KKK. I'm merely stating that if someone wants to go out of their way to impede my freedom of speech, I will go out of my way to kick their asses.

And we KNOW you're "special", Ms. Shortbus candidate.

[jimnyc]

:beer:

Right back at ya! I would give my left arm for a beer right now! I'd give ya my right one too but I still have "needs" that only that one can handle! :laugh2:

[truthmatters]

4

[Yurt]

Then again you amitt you disagree with the laws of this nation and its position on the rights of freedom of speech?

You see the law does not see two people speaking at once a an impedment of eithers speech

He "amitts" nothing

[Yurt]

Right back at ya! I would give my left arm for a beer right now! I'd give ya my right one too but I still have "needs" that only that one can handle! :laugh2:

You can handle it with only one? :cool:

[jimnyc]

Then again you amitt you disagree with the laws of this nation and its position on the rights of freedom of speech?

You see the law does not see two people speaking at once a an impedment of eithers speech


Amitt? impedment? eithers?

Try again, and this time use the other half of your brain.

[Pale Rider]

Your right I posted a story about the KKK physically attacking someone to try and shut down their freedom of speech.

This is it. This is why you can't see the "truth." YOUR clowns were the ones trying to "shut down free speech." So one of them got bitch slapped. They asked for it.

But you have just shown your hand to the rest of the board, as to how ass backwards your warped train of thought is.