Know your "enemy"

[truthmatters]

4

[darin]

Here's my enemy; and the enemy of ALL free men:

http://internet-haganah.info/hmedia/03nov04-al_fateh.jpg

http://jimriverreport.com/tdaxp_upload/female_suicide_bomber_2.jpg

http://images.indymedia.org/imc/vancouver/child1_bomber.jpgbzbmxr.jpg

[truthmatters]

4

[nevadamedic]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=F0lut5DyQl8

I challenge you to listen to the voice of those you would call your enemy.

Muslims are not inherently evil ,this current trend towards violence in a fad and we have fed into it by our actions in Iraq.

We need to do the things that will actually WORK to fight islamic terror.

Iran is a perfect example.

Iran is a very Young country in the sense of population.

The youth has wanted more frredom for years and by attacking Iraq we Helped the Hard line in Iran get control.

In the very end of this interview you here about education and it is the KEY to fighting this trend and NOT bullets and Bombs.

I agree with this guy about Ghandi and Jesus.

The first rule in just abouot anything, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

[nevadamedic]

Here's my enemy; and the enemy of ALL free men:

http://internet-haganah.info/hmedia/03nov04-al_fateh.jpg

http://jimriverreport.com/tdaxp_upload/female_suicide_bomber_2.jpg

http://images.indymedia.org/imc/vancouver/child1_bomber.jpgbzbmxr.jpg

Those guys are cowards just likt those KKK assholes having to hide their faces.

[truthmatters]

4

[nevadamedic]

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5126/wtc3eo0.png

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6949/wtc2gx7.png

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6193/wtc4ek6.png

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1458/wtc1hf2.png

:salute: To all the men women and children who died that dark day because we trusted our enemy and gave them a chance here in America. :salute:

[truthmatters]

4

[Nukeman]

OK I get it you guys will not listen to this guy and that is a shame because you would hear what you have been asking for for years.

I have heard over and over "why dont the Muslims leaders speak out against this behavior".

Heres the reason you have not heard them do so .....YOU REFUSE TO LISTEN TO THEM!I have been studying Islam for a while now and I dont profess to be an expert but this guy is pretty spot on with what he is saying. Unfortunately he is in a minority in the Mid-east. He is very correct in the educational aspect but the problem is a great number of their religious leader dont want their "congregation" to become literate, thay dont wnat them to be able to question what they are being taught.

I will also point out to yo that the people who made this film/interview MEMRI (Mid East Media Research Institute) are looked down upon by most Islamic countries as a branch of the Isralies... Just a bit of info for yaa so the Islamic wountries aren't going to give this guy a lot of time or even listen to him.

I will agree with you he has a lot good information but unfortunately he is as I said earlier in the MINORITY...:cheers2:

[Nukeman]

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5126/wtc3eo0.png

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6949/wtc2gx7.png

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6193/wtc4ek6.png

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1458/wtc1hf2.png

:salute: To all the men women and children who died that dark day because we trusted our enemy and gave them a chance here in America. :salute:
You do know that the majority of the terrorist who did this were Saudi dont you?? Yet we haven't attack the great country of Saudi Arabia.

Saudi has the hardest line of Islam (the Wahabi's) They are the ones that are the most militant....

[nevadamedic]

You do know that the majority of the terrorist who did this were Saudi dont you?? Yet we haven't attack the great country of Saudi Arabia.

Saudi has the hardest line of Islam (the Wahabi's) They are the ones that are the most militant....

They wern't harboring and still arn't. Also Saudi is an ali of ours.

[Nukeman]

They wern't harboring and still arn't. Also Saudi is an ali of ours.

That has got to be one of the most ignorant post I have ever seen you put on this board (and that is saying a lot). Do you really have any clue as to what your saying. They most diffinetly do harbor terrorist are government looks the other way because we need the oil and they need our money.....

They really aren't an alli of ours they "tolerate" us for our money........

[truthmatters]

4

[Nukeman]

And why is it they are in the majority?

Because of education.

If we had spent just a little of the money we have thrown at Iraq on finding ways to educate the population of young Muslims in this world (70 million illeterate men) they would be much harder to be convinced to make roving Bombs out of themselfs.

If we had NOT Attacked a middle east country who was no threat and was the only fricking secular country in the ME then we would not have Inflamed the Iranian people and PUSHED them towards A more consevitive administration.

There are things that we could Work to our advantage in this whole war which have been Turned upsidedown and used to make our situtation Worse.

Its time to get smart in this "war" and to Stop doing the same stupid things which are handing help to our REAL enenmy.

Lets do the things that help guys like this Become the majority instead of helping His oposition.

Thank you for watching this and commenting intelligently.
You just dont get it do you!!! They (the ones in charge) DONT WANT THEIR PEOPLE TO BECOME EDUCATED. They prefer to keep them just literate enough to be able to work but not to question the Imans.

I would love the see the Ilamic world come out of the 13th century, and yes that is still where they are! but you have to get past the corrupt elites who are in charge. They FEAR CHANGE and EDUCATION because with both of those they lose just a little more power ever day. With the number of undereducated or uneducated people that they have at their disposal it will be a long time coming before you see even the slightest advance in this area.

Why is that most educated Muslims dont live in their countries of origin, I tell you why they are persecuted and imprisoned by the ones in power because of fear........

[Nukeman]

[QUOTE=truthmatters;115546]
If we had NOT Attacked a middle east country who was no threat and was the only fricking secular country in the ME then we would not have Inflamed the Iranian people and PUSHED them towards A more consevitive administration.

Actually the vast majority of the EDUCATED Iranaian students and adults are not Inlfamed as you state they are actually hoping for revolution in thier own country and some I say soome are more eager with the US right outside thier boarder because thats keeps the Revolutionalry Guard busy and away from them, so they can act in their own country.



There are things that we could Work to our advantage in this whole war which have been Turned upsidedown and used to make our situtation Worse.

Its time to get smart in this "war" and to Stop doing the same stupid things which are handing help to our REAL enenmy.
Lets do the things that help guys like this Become the majority instead of helping His oposition.



I couldn't agree more but where do we start???? We have to get a stable environment there first and that is going to take awhile..



Thank you for watching this and commenting intelligently

You will find that most on this board are willing to discuss and comment you just have to be patient and not be accusatory and always right no offense but some come on here and that is how they start out and that is how they will be treated for quite a while untill proven otherwise...:cheers2:

[truthmatters]

4

[Nukeman]

MAYBE ITS YOU WHO ARE NOT GETTING IT!

That is why educatig them is better than bombing them.

The young ones will live longer adn they are better educated than the old one for the most part.

If we use education and diplomatic endevors we will be able to wrestle the grip away from the fat cats using the fact that their people are uneducated to enslave them.

This guy here is not alone and in IRAN we see the fruits of attacking and bombing will give them MORE power.

Bombs and Bullets are the evil Immams best recruiting tool and we keep helping our true enenmies.

This is what the ME experts have been saying EVEN before we went inot Iraq!
Actually their best recruiting tools are iliteracy, and poverty those ore both rampant in Islanmic countries and ujtill the "evil" people are removed some how than nothing will change.

[Nukeman]

MAYBE ITS YOU WHO ARE NOT GETTING IT!

!


How long have you been studing Islam or do you currently practice Islam???

[Kathianne]

Personally, I'm just mystified by all these educated folks and spelling. No offense meant, as I misspell more than most. Just noticeable in this context.

[Nukeman]

Personally, I'm just mystified by all these educated folks and spelling. No offense meant, as I misspell more than most. Just noticeable in this context.
I dont nitpock on anybody else for spelling because I know that when I type I will miss a letter here or there and even totaly botch a word so I dont call people on it. You know the whole throwing stones and all!!!!!!:poke:

If no offense than why bring it up?????

[Nukeman]

Personally, I'm just mystified by all these educated folks and spelling. No offense meant, as I misspell more than most. Just noticeable in this context.Its not like its an essay or research paper for college or work now is it????

[truthmatters]

4

[stephanie]

MAYBE ITS YOU WHO ARE NOT GETTING IT!

That is why educatig them is better than bombing them.

The young ones will live longer adn they are better educated than the old one for the most part.

If we use education and diplomatic endevors we will be able to wrestle the grip away from the fat cats using the fact that their people are uneducated to enslave them.

This guy here is not alone and in IRAN we see the fruits of attacking and bombing will give them MORE power.

Bombs and Bullets are the evil Immams best recruiting tool and we keep helping our true enenmies.

This is what the ME experts have been saying EVEN before we went inot Iraq!

Well then, why don't all you good liberals pool your money together, and the whole lot of you go over to the ME, and start educating???

Good luck with that....Hope you all can keep your heads on.....straight...:poke:

Nukeman is right in what he said, but of course you don't want to hear that, you would prefer to bash the United States, instead ..

[Nukeman]

Sorry I should not have put that in there I just slipped.

We agree on this in actuality.

Education is what makes the masses malleable to the current Islamic militant sect.

When we attacked Iraq you will note they ended up with Majhadinijad who is more militant than what the youth of the country was leaning towards.

They way we deal with Iran is very important.

If we get agressive it will play right into the Hard liners hands.

If we use more diplomacy and education we will reap the benifits in a few short years.

The current admin wants us in Iraq with guns and bombs for years to come pushing in the face of all Muslims that we are the Muslim killing monsters the hard liners are trying to protray us as.

If we finess it we will have the Muslim youth( the majority of the muslim population is under 18) looking at the hard liners and then back at us and saying "why should I kill them they help me".

This is why all the experts even before the war were saying that this is not a war you fight with bullets and bombs.

Let start being smart.

But you forget, we aren't the ones doing most of the killing it is the hard line Islamist that want to stay in power. the Iranian revolutionalry Guard are being istrumental in keeping the terrorist activity up in Iraq. If we were to just abandon these peole to the mercy of Iran it would be a travisty of biblical proportions. I agree we need a different aproach but we also need to eliminate the threat from the other groupes that are agitating the pot so to speak....

[truthmatters]

4

[Nukeman]

Who said anything about abandoning anyone?

the Iraq war aides these guys it does not hurt them.

It sways the peoples mind towards the conservitive side of Islam.

If we were to End the Iraq war and started working with all countries in a peace keeping mission instead of this Occupation which is killing our people and services and trashing our budget we would have ohters sharing the cost of the monitoring of Iraq and we would NO LONGER be the ONE to hate for the Muslim world.I tell yaa what lets agree to disagree on certain matter in this thread I have my views which I am not about to change expecially after my study of how Islam treats its people and what not. You have your notions on certain aspects of the problem, how you came to those I don't know, but I am not going to change your opinion. We both agree on some of the details so end this with the agreement to disagree.....:cheers2:

[stephanie]

Ah yes....

The whole world will be at peace, if we can just all get together and hold hands and sing kumbaya....:rolleyes:

I wonder how come all this peace and educating, didn't happen when the god of Presidents was in office for eight yrs???

The Muslims tried to bring down the trade center then, I wonder what their EXCUSE WAS THEN...I wonder what Clinton did to them to piss them off so much????

Some people must just love sand, but I find, that I don't like it my hair...

:tinfoil:

[manu1959]

Muslims are not inherently evil ,this current trend towards violence in a fad and we have fed into it by our actions in Iraq.


really....care to explain...somalia....the uss cole....khbar towers....nigerian embassy.....bali night clubs....wtc I..

yes this is a new trend...

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/pubs/fs/5902.htm....scroll down to 1979...

[stephanie]

really....care to explain...somalia....the uss cole....khbar towers....nigerian embassy.....bali night clubs....wtc I..

yes this is a new trend...

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/pubs/fs/5902.htm....scroll down to 1979...

But, but....
I thought terrorism just started because of President Bush...:eek:

I don't know how some people can be so blind...:dunno:

[truthmatters]

4

[truthmatters]

4

[manu1959]

Manu it is all in this thread and I dont want to break any rules by reposting what I have already posted in the same thread so please go back and read more of the thread.

Its all there and more.

read the entire thread...your claim was..."Muslims are not inherently evil ,this current trend towards violence in a fad and we have fed into it by our actions in Iraq."

i proved your premise wrong in one post with one link.....

you lose:fu:

[manu1959]

Clinton took office on jan. 20th 1993.



the peacful years........ the blow job years:

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/pubs/fs/5902.htm


World Trade Center Bombing, February 26, 1993: The World Trade Center in New York City was badly damaged when a car bomb planted by Islamic terrorists exploded in an underground garage. The bomb left 6 people dead and 1,000 injured. The men carrying out the attack were followers of Umar Abd al-Rahman, an Egyptian cleric who preached in the New York City area.

Attempted Assassination of President Bush by Iraqi Agents, April 14, 1993: The Iraqi intelligence service attempted to assassinate former U.S. President George Bush during a visit to Kuwait. In retaliation, the U.S. launched a cruise missile attack 2 months later on the Iraqi capital Baghdad.

1994

Hebron Massacre, February 25, 1994: Jewish right-wing extremist and U.S. citizen Baruch Goldstein machine-gunned Moslem worshippers at a mosque in West Bank town of Hebron, killing 29 and wounding about 150.

FARC Hostage-taking, September 23, 1994: FARC rebels kidnapped U.S. citizen Thomas Hargrove in Colombia.

Air France Hijacking, December 24, 1994: Members of the Armed Islamic Group seized an Air France Flight to Algeria. The four terrorists were killed during a rescue effort.

1995

Attack on U.S. Diplomats in Pakistan, March 8, 1995: Two unidentified gunmen killed two U.S. diplomats and wounded a third in Karachi, Pakistan.

Tokyo Subway Station Attack, March 20, 1995: Twelve persons were killed and 5,700 were injured in a Sarin nerve gas attack on a crowded subway station in the center of Tokyo, Japan. A similar attack occurred nearly simultaneously in the Yokohama subway system. The Aum Shinri-kyo cult was blamed for the attacks.

Bombing of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City, April 19, 1995: Right-wing extremists Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols destroyed the Federal Building in Oklahoma City with a massive truck bomb that killed 166 and injured hundreds more in what was up to then the largest terrorist attack on American soil.

Kashmiri Hostage-taking, July 4, 1995: In India six foreigners, including two U.S. citizens, were taken hostage by Al-Faran, a Kashmiri separatist group. One non-U.S. hostage was later found beheaded.

Jerusalem Bus Attack, August 21, 1995: HAMAS claimed responsibility for the detonation of a bomb that killed 6 and injured over 100 persons, including several U.S. citizens.

Attack on U.S. Embassy in Moscow, September 13, 1995: A rocket-propelled grenade was fired through the window of the U.S. Embassy in Moscow, ostensibly in retaliation for U.S. strikes on Serb positions in Bosnia.

Saudi Military Installation Attack, November 13, 1995: The Islamic Movement of Change planted a bomb in a Riyadh military compound that killed one U.S. citizen, several foreign national employees of the U.S. government, and over 40 others.

Egyptian Embassy Attack, November 19, 1995: A suicide bomber drove a vehicle into the Egyptian Embassy compound in Islamabad, Pakistan, killing at least 16 and injuring 60 persons. Three militant Islamic groups claimed responsibility.

1996


Papuan Hostage Abduction, January 8, 1996: In Indonesia, 200 Free Papua Movement (OPM) guerrillas abducted 26 individuals in the Lorenta nature preserve, Irian Jaya Province. Indonesian Special Forces members rescued the remaining nine hostages on May 15.

Kidnapping in Colombia, January 19, 1996: Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) guerrillas kidnapped a US citizen and demanded a $1 million ransom. The hostage was released on May 22.

Tamil Tigers Attack, January 31, 1996: Members of the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) rammed an explosives-laden truck into the Central Bank in the heart of downtown Colombo, Sri Lanka, killing 90 civilians and injuring more than 1,400 others, including 2 US citizens.

IRA Bombing, February 9, 1996: An Irish Republican Army (IRA) bomb detonated in London, killing 2 persons and wounding more than 100 others, including 2 U.S. citizens.

Athens Embassy Attack, February 15, 1996: Unidentified assailants fired a rocket at the U.S. Embassy compound in Athens, causing minor damage to three diplomatic vehicles and some surrounding buildings. Circumstances of the attack suggested it was an operation carried out by the 17 November group.

ELN Kidnapping, February 16, 1996: Six alleged National Liberation Army (ELN) guerrillas kidnapped a U.S. citizen in Colombia. After 9 months, the hostage was released.

HAMAS Bus Attack, February 26, 1996: In Jerusalem, a suicide bomber blew up a bus, killing 26 persons, including three U.S. citizens, and injuring some 80 persons, including three other US citizens.

Dizengoff Center Bombing, March 4, 1996: HAMAS and the Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ) both claimed responsibility for a bombing outside of Tel Aviv's largest shopping mall that killed 20 persons and injured 75 others, including 2 U.S. citizens.

West Bank Attack, May 13, 1996: Arab gunmen opened fire on a bus and a group of Yeshiva students near the Bet El settlement, killing a dual U.S./Israeli citizen and wounding three Israelis. No one claimed responsibility for the attack, but HAMAS was suspected.

AID Worker Abduction, May 31, 1996: A gang of former Contra guerrillas kidnapped a U.S. employee of the Agency for International Development (AID) who was assisting with election preparations in rural northern Nicaragua. She was released unharmed the next day after members of the international commission overseeing the preparations intervened.

Zekharya Attack, June 9, 1996: Unidentified gunmen opened fire on a car near Zekharya, killing a dual U.S./Israeli citizen and an Israeli. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) was suspected.

Manchester Truck Bombing, June 15, 1996: An IRA truck bomb detonated at a Manchester shopping center, wounding 206 persons, including two German tourists, and caused extensive property damage.

Khobar Towers Bombing, June 25, 1996: A fuel truck carrying a bomb exploded outside the US military's Khobar Towers housing facility in Dhahran, killing 19 U.S. military personnel and wounding 515 persons, including 240 U.S. personnel. Several groups claimed responsibility for the attack.

ETA Bombing, July 20, 1996: A bomb exploded at Tarragona International Airport in Reus, Spain, wounding 35 persons, including British and Irish tourists. The Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA) organization was suspected.

Bombing of Archbishop of Oran, August 1, 1996: A bomb exploded at the home of the French Archbishop of Oran, killing him and his chauffeur. The attack occurred after the Archbishop's meeting with the French Foreign Minister. The Algerian Armed Islamic Group (GIA) is suspected.

Sudanese Rebel Kidnapping, August 17, 1996: Sudan People's Liberation Army (SPLA) rebels kidnapped six missionaries in Mapourdit, including a U.S. citizen, an Italian, three Australians, and a Sudanese. The SPLA released the hostages 11 days later.

PUK Kidnapping, September 13, 1996: In Iraq, Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) militants kidnapped four French workers for Pharmaciens Sans Frontieres, a Canadian United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) official, and two Iraqis.

Assassination of South Korean Consul, October 1, 1996: In Vladivostok, Russia, assailants attacked and killed a South Korean consul near his home. No one claimed responsibility, but South Korean authorities believed that the attack was carried out by professionals and that the assailants were North Koreans. North Korean officials denied the country's involvement in the attack.

Red Cross Worker Kidnappings, November 1, 1996: In Sudan a breakaway group from the Sudanese People's Liberation Army (SPLA) kidnapped three International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) workers, including a U.S. citizen, an Australian, and a Kenyan. On 9 December the rebels released the hostages in exchange for ICRC supplies and a health survey for their camp.

Paris Subway Explosion, December 3, 1996: A bomb exploded aboard a Paris subway train as it arrived at the Port Royal station, killing two French nationals, a Moroccan, and a Canadian, and injuring 86 persons. Among those injured were one U.S. citizen and a Canadian. No one claimed responsibility for the attack, but Algerian extremists are suspected.

Abduction of US. Citizen by FARC, December 11, 1996: Five armed men claiming to be members of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) kidnapped and later killed a U.S. geologist at a methane gas exploration site in La Guajira Department.

Tupac Amaru Seizure of Diplomats, December 17, 1996: Twenty-three members of the Tupac Amaru Revolutionary Movement (MRTA) took several hundred people hostage at a party given at the Japanese Ambassador's residence in Lima, Peru. Among the hostages were several US officials, foreign ambassadors and other diplomats, Peruvian Government officials, and Japanese businessmen. The group demanded the release of all MRTA members in prison and safe passage for them and the hostage takers. The terrorists released most of the hostages in December but held 81 Peruvians and Japanese citizens for several months.

1997


Egyptian Letter Bombs, January 2-13, 1997: A series of letter bombs with Alexandria, Egypt, postmarks were discovered at Al-Hayat newspaper bureaus in Washington, New York City, London, and Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Three similar devices, also postmarked in Egypt, were found at a prison facility in Leavenworth, Kansas. Bomb disposal experts defused all the devices, but one detonated at the Al-Hayat office in London, injuring two security guards and causing minor damage.

Tajik Hostage Abductions, February 4-17, 1997: Near Komsomolabad, Tajikistan, a paramilitary group led by Bakhrom Sodirov abducted four United Nations (UN) military observers. The victims included two Swiss, one Austrian, one Ukrainian, and their Tajik interpreter. The kidnappers demanded safe passage for their supporters from Afghanistan to Tajikistan. In four separate incidents occurring between Dushanbe and Garm, Bakhrom Sodirov and his group kidnapped two International Committee for the Red Cross members, four Russian journalists and their Tajik driver, four UNHCR members, and the Tajik Security Minister, Saidamir Zukhurov.

Venezuelan Abduction, February 14, 1997: Six armed Colombian guerrillas kidnapped a US oil engineer and his Venezuelan pilot in Apure, Venezuela. The kidnappers released the Venezuelan pilot on 22 February. According to authorities, the FARC is responsible for the kidnapping.

Empire State Building Sniper Attack, February 23, 1997: A Palestinian gunman opened fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State Building in New York City, killing a Danish national and wounding visitors from the United States, Argentina, Switzerland, and France before turning the gun on himself. A handwritten note carried by the gunman claimed this was a punishment attack against the "enemies of Palestine."

ELN Kidnapping, February 24, 1997: National Liberation Army (ELN) guerrillas kidnapped a U.S. citizen employed by a Las Vegas gold corporation who was scouting a gold mining operation in Colombia. The ELN demanded a ransom of $2.5 million.

FARC Kidnapping, March 7, 1997: FARC guerrillas kidnapped a U.S. mining employee and his Colombian colleague who were searching for gold in Colombia. On November 16, the rebels released the two hostages after receiving a $50,000 ransom.

Hotel Nacional Bombing, July 12, 1997: A bomb exploded at the Hotel Nacional in Havana, injuring three persons and causing minor damage. A previously unknown group calling itself the Military Liberation Union claimed responsibility.

Israeli Shopping Mall Bombing, September 4, 1997: Three suicide bombers of HAMAS detonated bombs in the Ben Yehuda shopping mall in Jerusalem, killing eight persons, including the bombers, and wounding nearly 200 others. A dual U.S./Israeli citizen was among the dead, and 7 U.S. citizens were wounded.

OAS Abductions, October 23, 1997: In Colombia ELN rebels kidnapped two foreign members of the Organization of American States (OAS) and a Colombian human rights official at a roadblock. The ELN claimed that the kidnapping was intended "to show the international community that the elections in Colombia are a farce."

Yemeni Kidnappings, October 30, 1997: Al-Sha'if tribesmen kidnapped a U.S. businessman near Sanaa. The tribesmen sought the release of two fellow tribesmen who were arrested on smuggling charges and several public works projects they claim the government promised them. They released the hostage on November 27.

Murder of U.S. Businessmen in Pakistan, November 12, 1997: Two unidentified gunmen shot to death four U.S. auditors from Union Texas Petroleum Corporation and their Pakistani driver after they drove away from the Sheraton Hotel in Karachi. The Islami Inqilabi Council, or Islamic Revolutionary Council, claimed responsibility in a call to the U.S. Consulate in Karachi. In a letter to Pakistani newspapers, the Aimal Khufia Action Committee also claimed responsibility.

Tourist Killings in Egypt, November 17, 1997: Al-Gama'at al-Islamiyya (IG) gunmen shot and killed 58 tourists and four Egyptians and wounded 26 others at the Hatshepsut Temple in the Valley of the Kings near Luxor. Thirty-four Swiss, eight Japanese, five Germans, four Britons, one French, one Colombian, a dual Bulgarian/British citizen, and four unidentified persons were among the dead. Twelve Swiss, two Japanese, two Germans, one French, and nine Egyptians were among the wounded.

1998

UN Observer Abductions, February 19, 1998: Armed supporters of late Georgian president Zviad Gamsakhurdia abducted four UN military observers from Sweden, Uruguay, and the Czech Republic.

FARC Abduction, March 21-23, 1998: FARC rebels kidnapped a US citizen in Sabaneta, Colombia. FARC members also killed three persons, wounded 14, and kidnapped at least 27 others at a roadblock near Bogota. Four U.S. citizens and one Italian were among those kidnapped, as well as the acting president of the National Electoral Council (CNE) and his wife.

Somali Hostage-takings, April 15, 1998: Somali militiamen abducted nine Red Cross and Red Crescent workers at an airstrip north of Mogadishu. The hostages included a U.S. citizen, a German, a Belgian, a French, a Norwegian, two Swiss, and one Somali. The gunmen were members of a sub-clan loyal to Ali Mahdi Mohammed, who controlled the northern section of the capital.

IRA Bombing, Banbridge, August 1, 1998: A 500-pound car bomb planted by the Real IRA exploded outside a shoe store in Banbridge, North Ireland, injuring 35 persons and damaging at least 200 homes.

U.S. Embassy Bombings in East Africa, August 7, 1998: A bomb exploded at the rear entrance of the U.S. Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya, killing 12 U.S. citizens, 32 Foreign Service Nationals (FSNs), and 247 Kenyan citizens. Approximately 5,000 Kenyans, 6 U.S. citizens, and 13 FSNs were injured. The U.S. Embassy building sustained extensive structural damage. Almost simultaneously, a bomb detonated outside the U.S. Embassy in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, killing 7 FSNs and 3 Tanzanian citizens, and injuring 1 U.S. citizen and 76 Tanzanians. The explosion caused major structural damage to the U.S. Embassy facility. The U.S. Government held Usama Bin Laden responsible.

IRA Bombing, Omagh, August 15, 1998: A 500-pound car bomb planted by the Real IRA exploded outside a local courthouse in the central shopping district of Omagh, Northern Ireland, killing 29 persons and injuring over 330.

Colombian Pipeline Bombing, October 18, 1998: A National Liberation Army (ELN) planted bomb exploded on the Ocensa pipeline in Antioquia Department, killing approximately 71 persons and injuring at least 100 others. The pipeline is jointly owned by the Colombia State Oil Company Ecopetrol and a consortium including U.S., French, British, and Canadian companies.

Armed Kidnapping in Colombia, November 15, 1998: Armed assailants followed a U.S. businessman and his family home in Cundinamarca Department and kidnapped his 11-year-old son after stealing money, jewelry, one automobile, and two cell phones. The kidnappers demanded $1 million in ransom. On January 21, 1999, the kidnappers released the boy.

1999


Angolan Aircraft Downing, January 2, 1999: A UN plane carrying one U.S. citizen, four Angolans, two Philippine nationals and one Namibian was shot down, according to a UN official. No deaths or injuries were reported. Angolan authorities blamed the attack on National Union for the Total Independence of Angola (UNITA) rebels. UNITA officials denied shooting down the plane.

Ugandan Rebel Attack, February 14, 1999: A pipe bomb exploded inside a bar, killing five persons and injuring 35 others. One Ethiopian and four Ugandan nationals died in the blast, and one U.S. citizen working for USAID, two Swiss nationals, one Pakistani, one Ethiopian, and 27 Ugandans were injured. Ugandan authorities blamed the attack on the Allied Democratic Forces (ADF).

Greek Embassy Seizure, February 16, 1999: Kurdish protesters stormed and occupied the Greek Embassy in Vienna, taking the Greek Ambassador and six other persons hostage. Several hours later the protesters released the hostages and left the Embassy. The attack followed the Turkish Government's announcement of the successful capture of the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) leader Abdullah Ocalan. Kurds also occupied Kenyan, Israeli, and other Greek diplomatic facilities in France, Holland, Switzerland, Britain, and Germany over the following days.

FARC Kidnappings, February 25, 1999: FARC kidnapped three U.S. citizens working for the Hawaii-based Pacific Cultural Conservancy International. On March 4, the bodies of the three victims were found in Venezuela.

Hutu Abductions, March 1, 1999: 150 armed Hutu rebels attacked three tourist camps in Uganda, killed four Ugandans, and abducted three U.S. citizens, six Britons, three New Zealanders, two Danish citizens, one Australian, and one Canadian national. Two of the U.S. citizens and six of the other hostages were subsequently killed by their abductors.

ELN Hostage-taking, March 23, 1999: Armed guerrillas kidnapped a U.S. citizen in Boyaca, Colombia. The National Liberation Army (ELN) claimed responsibility and demanded $400,000 ransom. On 20 July, ELN rebels released the hostage unharmed following a ransom payment of $48,000.

ELN Hostage-taking, May 30, 1999: In Cali, Colombia, armed ELN militants attacked a church in the neighborhood of Ciudad Jardin, kidnapping 160 persons, including six U.S. citizens and one French national. The rebels released approximately 80 persons, including three U.S. citizens, later that day.

Shell Platform Bombing, June 27, 1999: In Port Harcourt, Nigeria, armed youths stormed a Shell oil platform, kidnapping one U.S. citizen, one Nigerian national, and one Australian citizen, and causing undetermined damage. A group calling itself "Enough is Enough in the Niger River" claimed responsibility. Further seizures of oil facilities followed.

AFRC Kidnappings, August 4, 1999: An Armed Forces Revolutionary Council (AFRC) faction kidnapped 33 UN representatives near Occra Hills, Sierra Leone. The hostages included one U.S. citizen, five British soldiers, one Canadian citizen, one representative from Ghana, one military officer from Russia, one officer from Kyrgystan, one officer from Zambia, one officer from Malaysia, a local Bishop, two UN officials, two local journalists, and 16 Sierra Leonean nationals.

Burmese Embassy Seizure, October 1, 1999: Burmese dissidents seized the Burmese Embassy in Bangkok, Thailand, taking 89 persons hostage, including one U.S. citizen.

PLA Kidnapping, December 23, 1999: Colombian People’s Liberation Army (PLA) forces kidnapped a U.S. citizen in an unsuccessful ransoming effort.

Indian Airlines Airbus Hijacking, December 24, 1999: Five militants hijacked a flight bound from Katmandu to New Delhi carrying 189 people. The plane and its passengers were released unharmed on December 31.

2000


Car bombing in Spain, January 27, 2000: Police officials reported unidentified individuals set fire to a Citroen car dealership in Iturreta, causing extensive damage to the building and destroying 12 vehicles. The attack bore the hallmark of the Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA).

RUF Attacks on U.N. Mission Personnel, May 1, 2000: On 1 May in Makeni, Sierra Leone, Revolutionary United Front (RUF) militants kidnapped at least 20 members of the United Nations Assistance Mission in Sierra Leone (UNAMSIL) and surrounded and opened fire on a UNAMSIL facility, according to press reports. The militants killed five UN soldiers in the attack. RUF militants kidnapped 300 UNAMSIL peacekeepers throughout the country, according to press reports. On 15 May in Foya, Liberia, the kidnappers released 139 hostages. On 28 May, on the Liberia and Sierra Leone border, armed militants released unharmed the last of the UN peacekeepers. In Freetown, according to press reports, armed militants ambushed two military vehicles carrying four journalists. A Spaniard and one U.S. citizen were killed in a May 25 car bombing in Freetown for which the RUF was probably responsible. Suspected RUF rebels also kidnapped 21 Indian UN peacekeepers in Freetown on June 6. Additional attacks by RUF on foreign personnel followed.

Diplomatic Assassination in Greece, June 8, 2000: In Athens, Greece, two unidentified gunmen killed British Defense Attaché Stephen Saunders in an ambush. The Revolutionary Organization 17 November claimed responsibility.

ELN Kidnapping, June 27, 2000: In Bogota, Colombia, ELN militants kidnapped a 5-year-old U.S. citizen and his Colombian mother, demanding an undisclosed ransom.

Kidnappings in Kyrgyzstan, August 12, 2000: In the Kara-Su Valley, the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan took four U.S. citizens hostage. The Americans escaped on August 12.

Church Bombing in Tajikistan, October 1, 2000: Unidentified militants detonated two bombs in a Christian church in Dushanbe, killing seven persons and injuring 70 others. The church was founded by a Korean-born U.S. citizen, and most of those killed and wounded were Korean. No one claimed responsibility.

Helicopter Hijacking, October 12, 2000: In Sucumbios Province, Ecuador, a group of armed kidnappers led by former members of defunct Colombian terrorist organization the Popular Liberation Army (EPL), took hostage 10 employees of Spanish energy consortium REPSOL. Those kidnapped included five U.S. citizens, one Argentine, one Chilean, one New Zealander, and two French pilots who escaped four days later. On January 30, 2001, the kidnappers murdered American hostage Ronald Sander. The remaining hostages were released on February 23 following the payment of $13 million in ransom by the oil companies.

Attack on U.S.S. Cole, October 12, 2000: In Aden, Yemen, a small dingy carrying explosives rammed the destroyer U.S.S. Cole, killing 17 sailors and injuring 39 others. Supporters of Usama Bin Laden were suspected.

Manila Bombing, December 30, 2000: A bomb exploded in a plaza across the street from the U.S. Embassy in Manila, injuring nine persons. The Moro Islamic Liberation Front was likely responsible.

[truthmatters]

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[manu1959]

did you ever even go back and watch the original post?

You have only proven you are not open to any type of intelligent discussion and know how to cut and paste.

yes for the second time......still proved your claim to be false.....

[manu1959]

peaceful group...http://youtube.com/watch?v=B_kyNIevsIs&mode=related&search=

[Trigg]

It seems that even the younger well educated muslims in America have a tendency towards violence.


While nearly 80 percent of U.S. Muslims say suicide bombings of civilians to defend Islam can not be justified, 13 percent say they can be, at least rarely.

That sentiment is strongest among those younger than 30. Two percent of them say it can often be justified, 13 percent say sometimes and 11 percent say rarely.


In surveys Pew conducted last year, support in some Muslim countries exceeded 50 percent, while it was considered justifiable by about one in four Muslims in Britain and Spain, and one in three in France
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18797530/

[truthmatters]

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[April15]

Those guys are cowards just likt those KKK assholes having to hide their faces.I must agree on this point.

[truthmatters]

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[manu1959]

you posted a list of action by the Muslim extreme and that proved what?

that your claim...that muslim violence is a current trend and a fad....is false

seems the trend and fad goes back decades.....

[bullypulpit]

Those guys are cowards just likt those KKK assholes having to hide their faces.

And both are claiming to act in God's name. Isn't it ironic.

[manu1959]

Would you be willing to watch the clip which is what this entire thread is about?

your clip proves that one man has made claims that his religion is one of peace....there are thousands that prove otherwise and would kill him for what he has said ....

[nevadamedic]

Manu it is all in this thread and I dont want to break any rules by reposting what I have already posted in the same thread so please go back and read more of the thread.

Its all there and more.

In other words you cant explain it. That didn't stop you from asking me to repost my defenses of Governor Gibbons several times.

[April15]

Would you be willing to watch the clip which is what this entire thread is about?I watched the clip. I stand by my statement of agreement. These people who kill with their heads covered in masks are cowards.

[April15]

your clip proves that one man has made claims that his religion is one of peace....there are thousands that prove otherwise and would kill him for what he has said ....Sadly what you say is true. But the overall faith is not fanatical. Just as the KKK was not all of the christians but merely a part that was fanatical.

[manu1959]

I watched the clip. I stand by my statement of agreement. These people who kill with their heads covered in masks are cowards.

your signature implies you would like everyone to be liberals and that conservaties all cahnge or die.....how do you plan to accomplish this?

[manu1959]

Sadly what you say is true. But the overall faith is not fanatical. Just as the KKK was not all of the christians but merely a part that was fanatical.

never said it was.....just disproving the claim that muslims had only recently become vilolent....

[April15]

your signature implies you would like everyone to be liberals and that conservaties all cahnge or die.....how do you plan to accomplish this?The same way you expect to find out you are wrong!

[manu1959]

The same way you expect to find out you are wrong!

no clue huh......

btw.....what am i wrong about?

[Trigg]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=F0lut5DyQl8

I challenge you to listen to the voice of those you would call your enemy.

Muslims are not inherently evil ,this current trend towards violence in a fad and we have fed into it by our actions in Iraq.

We need to do the things that will actually WORK to fight islamic terror.

Iran is a perfect example.

Iran is a very Young country in the sense of population.

The youth has wanted more frredom for years and by attacking Iraq we Helped the Hard line in Iran get control.

In the very end of this interview you here about education and it is the KEY to fighting this trend and NOT bullets and Bombs.

I agree with this guy about Ghandi and Jesus.


This man and a few others you can find clips on, are speaking against the religion/governments saying they are fueling the violence.

But, and I don't know why, from the poll I posted the young generation, even in America sees no problem with suicide bombing.

[April15]

no clue huh......

btw.....what am i wrong about?Nice dodge! When you die you will find out.

[Gaffer]

MAYBE ITS YOU WHO ARE NOT GETTING IT!

That is why educatig them is better than bombing them.

The young ones will live longer adn they are better educated than the old one for the most part.

If we use education and diplomatic endevors we will be able to wrestle the grip away from the fat cats using the fact that their people are uneducated to enslave them.

This guy here is not alone and in IRAN we see the fruits of attacking and bombing will give them MORE power.

Bombs and Bullets are the evil Immams best recruiting tool and we keep helping our true enenmies.

This is what the ME experts have been saying EVEN before we went inot Iraq!

As far as iraq goes. The first thing needed is the security of the country. End the bombings and murders. After that you can begin education. and that education must include the eradication of islam. It's not just a matter of educating in the academic sense. It's changing the whole ideology. Seven out of eight of the last terror cell busted in the UK were doctors. So just to educate means nothing if the ideology remains.

The guy in the video is calling for a change in the ideology of islam. There are a few out there calling for that. But they are shouted down and threatened when they speak out.

Bombs and bullets are the imams main tool. Don't imagine that they are recruiting based on what we do. They recruit based on their success in murder. Like too many people in this country you have a misconception about islam. You think of it as just a peaceful, loving religion like any other. You could not be more wrong. It was started and remains to this day as a death cult. It is spread by conquest. It thrives on terror. None of the freedoms you cherish are acceptable in islam. With islam there is no tolerance. You submit or you die.

[Gaffer]

Who said anything about abandoning anyone?

the Iraq war aides these guys it does not hurt them.

It sways the peoples mind towards the conservitive side of Islam.

If we were to End the Iraq war and started working with all countries in a peace keeping mission instead of this Occupation which is killing our people and services and trashing our budget we would have ohters sharing the cost of the monitoring of Iraq and we would NO LONGER be the ONE to hate for the Muslim world.

Would you please explain to me what a peace keeping mission would consist of? What exactly would these peace keepers do?

[manu1959]

Nice dodge! When you die you will find out.

as will you .... nice dodge as well....you have not been able to explain how you will get rid of all conservatives until there is only liberal thought.....whay not just move to russia and be happy now...

[jimnyc]

I watched the video now as well. The gent speaking was reasonable and seemed genuine. Too bad he's probably had his head sawed off by now.

Are "all" Muslims bad people? Of course not. I'm sure there are millions of them that are fine people. It's a shame that there are just as many that believe that anyone who doesn't subscribe to their philosophy should be put to death.

[trobinett]

Nothing new here, same old shit, just another day.

I can hardly wait for the NEXT thread about "just give them a chance".

Talk about not having a clue........................:slap:

[Gaffer]

liberaltruthmatters wants so bad to believe the muslims are really nice people except for a few bad apples. So here's a little something to shake her tree.

http://jihadwatch.org/

More soothing nonsense

Alas, I must run out and don't have time for a full discussion of this piece, "The Koran and non-Muslims – myths versus facts," by Mustafa Akyol (with whom I had some exchanges a few years ago -- search the archives) in the Turkish Daily News, although I hope to get to it later. Still, I had to stop and post about this, because if I had a nickel for every time I've heard this, I'd be a very rich man:

One should also note the Koranic verse which tells that “all who have faith in God and the Last Day and act rightly” including “those who are Jews, and the Christians” will be rewarded by God in afterlife. (2:62) In other words, the Koran does not denounce Jewish and Christians an “unbelievers,” as it is often thought.

Why not just tell the truth and deal with that? Is Mr. Akyol unaware of the existence of these passages?

"They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary." -- Qur'an 5:17

The key word in that verse is kafara, كَفَرَ. Derived from kufr, unbelief.

And 4:44-59 is an invective against the People of the Book in general and the Jews in particular. The Jews “traffic in error” and, and wish that the Muslims would “lose the right path” (v. 44). They twist Allah’s words, and Allah has “cursed them for their unbelief” -- كُفْرِهِمْ, kufrihim (v. 46) -- again, derived from kufr.

There, then, are two Qur'anic passages clearly calling Christians and Jews unbelievers -- which Mustafa Akyol and many, many others say the Qur'an never does. I have often been criticized for not being as enthusiastic about this or that Islamic reformer as others think I should have been. Well, here is a good example of why I find so often that my enthusiasm is dampened. Whether Mr. Akyol doesn't know that the Qur'an actually does call Jews and Christians unbelievers, and that mainstream Muslim exegetes interpret 2:62 as meaning only that Jews and Christians who accept Islam will be saved, or whether he just doesn't want us to know all this, I have no way of knowing. But either way, his writings are not going to impress any jihadists or make them discard their notions of Islamic supremacism.

So her muslim hero is either a liar or not knowledgeable in islam.

[manu1959]

I watched the video now as well. The gent speaking was reasonable and seemed genuine. Too bad he's probably had his head sawed off by now.

Are "all" Muslims bad people? Of course not. I'm sure there are millions of them that are fine people. It's a shame that there are just as many that believe that anyone who doesn't subscribe to their philosophy should be put to death.

well said...find me a reasonable muslim leader....

[actsnoblemartin]

I dont believe the quoran is inherently good, and when taken literally which it is, thanks to our friends in saudi arabia. Many muslims are taught to hate israel and the west through madrassa. I do appreciate you trying to remind us not all muslims are bad, and if that is the good muslims fighting bad, i applaud you, i saw that. We need more good muslims, and especially those on the fence to step up.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=F0lut5DyQl8

I challenge you to listen to the voice of those you would call your enemy.

Muslims are not inherently evil ,this current trend towards violence in a fad and we have fed into it by our actions in Iraq.

We need to do the things that will actually WORK to fight islamic terror.

Iran is a perfect example.

Iran is a very Young country in the sense of population.

The youth has wanted more frredom for years and by attacking Iraq we Helped the Hard line in Iran get control.

In the very end of this interview you here about education and it is the KEY to fighting this trend and NOT bullets and Bombs.

I agree with this guy about Ghandi and Jesus.

[nevadamedic]

I dont believe the quoran is inherently good, and when taken literally which it is, thanks to our friends in saudi arabia. Many muslims are taught to hate israel and the west through madrassa. I do appreciate you trying to remind us not all muslims are bad, and if that is the good muslims fighting bad, i applaud you, i saw that. We need more good muslims, and especially those on the fence to step up.

It is far from good and shouldn't be taken seriously at all.

[actsnoblemartin]

I think the koran is the most evil scripture/supposed holy book of all religion, just my personal observation.


It is far from good and shouldn't be taken seriously at all.

[truthmatters]

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[Pale Rider]

Those guys are cowards just likt those KKK assholes having to hide their faces.

Very true. If your cause is just, and you have bravery in your heart, there isn't any need for masks.

Terrorists are filthy, coward dogs. The lowest form of life on earth.

[truthmatters]

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[truthmatters]

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[Pale Rider]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=F0lut5DyQl8

I challenge you to listen to the voice of those you would call your enemy.

Muslims are not inherently evil ,this current trend towards violence in a fad and we have fed into it by our actions in Iraq.

We need to do the things that will actually WORK to fight islamic terror.

Iran is a perfect example.

Iran is a very Young country in the sense of population.

The youth has wanted more frredom for years and by attacking Iraq we Helped the Hard line in Iran get control.

In the very end of this interview you here about education and it is the KEY to fighting this trend and NOT bullets and Bombs.

I agree with this guy about Ghandi and Jesus.

Let me ask you a question... why is it do think that this video hasn't made it's way onto every main stream media outlet, TV, radio, cable, etc.? Why aren't they trying to convince "us" that there are good muslims?

Secondly, I totally agree we should try and educate muslims in the middle east into a new age and way of thinking. But I think we're already doing as much of that as we can.

[Pale Rider]

Along with people like the KKK!

I never once said I liked the KKK. The argument in the other thread was about principle.

[Pale Rider]

What are we doing now?

Just the fact that it would be a world force instead of just Americans who have created this mess for the Iraqi people it would be an international composed of people of all faiths including Muslims would quell some of the violence and amnity.

They would no longer have only us to hate would they?

We would no longer be the only ones beside them paying for this mess in many ways.

We could then return to the REAL fight in Afganistan.

The Best thing this country can do to Fix this mess is to Toss out on their ear the people who created this mess and condem them to the world and say "WE WILL NOW FIND GOOD LEADERSHIP ".

I know you love GWB but the fact is he has created a very big mess which has ONLY hurt this country. He has spilled the blood of our bravest, attacked a country who was incapable of harmig us , abandoned the REAL fight in Afganistan, Made us one of the most hated countries in the world, scattered our treasure in the sands of Iraq without a single thing to show for it and divided this country like no other time except the civil war.

Remember GWB will not always be president no matter what and if you ever want another Republican to win the seat I sugest you realise how much damage he has done to your party. Your party is begining to realise it.

I think your point stated out with good merit. But as soon as you regress back into your frothing at the mouth rabid Bush hating diatribe, you lose your grip on your argument.

The United Nations condemned Saddam Hussein, not America. The U.N. passed 14 resolutions against Saddam Hussein which ultimately gave permission for use of force, not America. Many, many countries were involved to kick Saddam Hussein's ass, not just America. True most are gone now, but basically because they can't afford to continue. We really can't either. But one way or the other, we need to finish what we have started.

[truthmatters]

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[Pale Rider]

There have been Mulim leaders who have maybe you should ask Why dont us Americans make sure these Muslims GET their stories out?

It seems it would be a great advantage to us to HELP them do so huh?

Why have we NOT done this?




http://tinyurl.com/3bpnvh


Give it a look



heres a clip

The problem is not that condemnations do not exist; it is that they are not well publicized in the media. Allie Shah wrote in the Star Tribune in Minnneapolis, MN:

"The fact is that many prominent American Muslim groups have clearly and publicly denounced acts of terror in the name of Islam as barbaric, heinous and just plain wrong. Though they religiously send out press releases and e-mail statements after every attack, somehow their message doesn't seem to penetrate." 1

Two of the largest Muslim groups in the U.S. -- the Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC) and the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) regularly issue statements. However, they rarely appear in local newspapers, on TV or radio.

Allie Shaw continues:

"Last fall, CAIR launched a national petition drive as part of a campaign by Muslims called 'Not in the Name of Islam.' To date, nearly 700,000 Muslims have signed the petition condemning terrorism committed in the name of Islam, and many newspapers have covered the petition drive. As part of the same campaign, CAIR also created and paid for public service announcements set to air on television stations nationwide....."

"If all that wasn't enough, last Thursday the Fiqh Council of North America issued a fatwa, or religious ruling, against terrorism and extremism. Endorsed by more than 100 U.S. Muslim authorities, the fatwa boldly and unequivocally forbids terrorism and admonishes those who commit terrorist attacks....."

"The lengthy fatwa continues with references to the Qur'an that support the ruling. It may not be enough to dissuade a minority of extremists hellbent on destruction, but it is the right thing to do."

"In the meantime, we will continue to react with the same shock and dismay and, yes, anger, at the misguided people who continue to show no regard for human life. And we'll continue to speak out against terrorism in the hopes that someone is listening." 1

One possible reason that more of these condemnations aren't shown on American TV is because Americans just don't seem able to generate much sympathy for peaceful muslims, and with good reason. Maybe that's not right, but there's a fight going on right now, and it's the muslims were fighting. So to just keep things simple, we lump them all together. A fault of mankind, but it's been done since the dawn of time.

[stephanie]

Why don't all those moderates try and educate their own countries...
They have all the riches of the oil, yet their people live in poverty and under dictatorships...

Blaming us for all their ill's, just gives them their excuse to continue their jihads, and people like you in this country, just backs them up...

What did Jimmy Carter do to them, that they took our Embassy workers hostages??

What did Ronald Reagan do to them, that they went around blowing up American locals around the world..??

What did Bill Clinton do to them, that they tried to blow up the world trade centers???

You go and try and reason with these people...
Myself, I think I would rather keep my head on me, for awhile longer...

[truthmatters]

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[April15]

as will you .... nice dodge as well....you have not been able to explain how you will get rid of all conservatives until there is only liberal thought.....whay not just move to russia and be happy now...My sig; If it weren't for conservatives this would be a nice world. Now where do I say I will get rid of all conservatives? I say the world would be better if conservatives were not.around. I live here and am reasonably happy.
Conservatives have done very little to improve cohabitation in the world. My guess would be that they feel God will cure that in death. But no god so no cure. It must be done while alive to make a sensible difference.

[truthmatters]

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[Pale Rider]

Why would we not want to show these as often as possible if we really wanted to win a war on the Muslims who are radicalized?
Told you the only thing I could think of... :dunno:


It seems to me a simple way to generate a problem of recruiting when they hear Immams and such telling them it is AGAINST THE KORAN to kill innnocents?

Maybe someone should tell Bush ad team to Broadcast these messages loud and clear for all Muslims to hear everywhere in the world.

I cant believe no one has not sugested it to him?
This isn't something Bush can do alone. He'd need a LOT of help from YOUR liberal media.


Its Cheap ,its simple and it would work ...................................Oh my God why are they not doing it?

Now Im scared of why they are not doing this.
Relax... have a drink.

[Pale Rider]

Conservites are not the problem.

Its the the Powerful money interests who have torn the conservitives away from their original principles and have manitpulated them into believing all the propaganda they have spewed to get them to do their bidding to keep the military industrial complex alive and doing the powerful money interests protected with our countries money.

Money has corrupted both parties... more so the liberals.

[truthmatters]

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[Pale Rider]

It was a joke PR!
You had me going.


Now can you answer why we have not made sure that this information is not getting out to Muslims accrossed the world?
For the third time... I don't know.


This would be an increadablely easy, Cheap and effective tool to keep the trend moving in the direction of these PEACEFUL Islamic movements?
Frankly, I don't think these peace loving muslims try to push their message very hard because they're scared. They're scared of having the HEAD SAWED OFF by their fellow muslims, and for good reason. That's exactly what they do.

I agree, the WHOLE WORLD needs to condemn terrorism, LOUDLY, and CONTINUIOUSLY! Fear is the only reason I can see why it's not done. That and there are many other muslims that cry that they're being "profiled."

[truthmatters]

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[April15]

Conservites are not the problem.

Its the the Powerful money interests who have torn the conservitives away from their original principles and have manitpulated them into believing all the propaganda they have spewed to get them to do their bidding to keep the military industrial complex alive and doing the powerful money interests protected with our countries money.Truthmatters,
Goldwater republicans vanished years ago. Kennedy democrats died with John. RR began the new republican era of BS and the greed is good mantra they use. The Dems have not done much better.
This country has fallen so far that I don't think anything short of revolution will bring it back. And with the worlds current shakey footing induced by Bush this nation would not survive in any recocgnizable form if it was to happen now.

[truthmatters]

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[Gaffer]

I like anyone who speaks for peace includig Jesus and Ghandi.

It seems you perfer hate from the looks of this HATE SITE you got this from.
Go back and take a look at all the Hate that site is spewing for everyone who is differnt from them and not just Muslims.

They hate everyone!

Now go get your Bible and re read the words in red and see it they agree with all this hate.

This is exactly why I dont like organised religion you end up with power hungry people dragging people arround by their religion and getting them to talk about iradicating other human beings out of fear and hate.

In response to both of your posts. I am not a christian. I'm athiest. I don't buy into any religion. But the christian religion is not a threat to anyone. islam is a threat to everyone. Jihadwatch is not a hate site. It's a site that gives accurate information about islam. It's only considered a hate site by muslims and those who support them. Which you obviously do. I hope you have all the proper coverings for when you become a second class citizen. with no rights.

[Gaffer]

What are we doing now?

Just the fact that it would be a world force instead of just Americans who have created this mess for the Iraqi people it would be an international composed of people of all faiths including Muslims would quell some of the violence and amnity.

They would no longer have only us to hate would they?

We would no longer be the only ones beside them paying for this mess in many ways.

We could then return to the REAL fight in Afganistan.

The Best thing this country can do to Fix this mess is to Toss out on their ear the people who created this mess and condem them to the world and say "WE WILL NOW FIND GOOD LEADERSHIP ".

I know you love GWB but the fact is he has created a very big mess which has ONLY hurt this country. He has spilled the blood of our bravest, attacked a country who was incapable of harmig us , abandoned the REAL fight in Afganistan, Made us one of the most hated countries in the world, scattered our treasure in the sands of Iraq without a single thing to show for it and divided this country like no other time except the civil war.

Remember GWB will not always be president no matter what and if you ever want another Republican to win the seat I sugest you realise how much damage he has done to your party. Your party is begining to realise it.

We are keeping the peace. there are 40 other countries that have troops or representatives there as well. Our troops are the best trained and best equipped of any country in the world. And can do the job better than anyone else. Think the Italians or the Swedes or anyone else can do it better. How about the russians, they are famous for their humanitarian and compassionate ways of handling things.

So they can hate all the other countries as much as they hate us. Equal opportunity hatred.

We are still involved in the real fight in Afghanistan. There are 40,000 NATO troops there fighting now. Once again it is multiple countries. Nothing has been taken away from the efforts there due to iraq.

Toss em out and condemn them to the world? Now there's a good liberal quote. And of course you will replace them with good socialist minded liberal. Perhaps place algore in his rightful place as king.

I already know you hate Bush. You go on about it incessantly. I support the war effort. Not Bush. He did at least go after some of the countries we needed to take down, but he hasn't done nearly enough in my book.

Bush will not be president after next year. But the libs are still out to defeat him in the election. They are all running against Bush. They don't have a clue what to do against any other candidate. This next year they might just beat Bush in an election. Kinda like the old football analogy. The dems and repubs were playing football. The repubs were winning. Then the two minute warning was sounded and the repubs, think the game over left the field. four plays later the dems made a touch down.

[truthmatters]

4

[manu1959]

You never seem to get anything I am saying.



honey .... he ain't the only one....

[Trigg]

honey .... he ain't the only one....

:laugh2:

[Gaffer]

I cant even figure out what you are refering to here?)

You never seem to get anything I am saying.

You are just too lost in your Bush whorship.

I don't think you get what your saying half the time. And you definitely don't get what I am saying. It's going miles over your head. You mistake respect for the presidency for Bush worship. At the same time your blind hatred of him keeps you from rational thought.

As for Afghanistan, I have watched it closely from the very beginning. And considering the lack of reporting from the MSM it that has been only accomplished through the internet. The media was busy reporting on one US soldier killed by a bomb in iraq while there was a major battle fought in Afghanistan with over 200 taliban killed. Including hand to hand fighting. But that news didn't meet the medias agenda.

What Bush is doing is irrelevant. The important thing is what the military is doing. They are what counts. Politicans are a bunch of do nothing blowhards trying to be self important.

[truthmatters]

4

[Gaffer]

And Bush kept firing the generals who would tell him what he did not like to hear.

I dislike Bush very much and a large portion of why I dislike him is his treatment of our military. This is America we do not have to show any respect to a president who is failing us miserablely.

Your posts dont go over my head they skirt most of the points I make.

You have sugested iradicating Islam if Im not mistaken.

YES, eradicating islam is absolutely imperative. It's not just a religion that worships a god. It's an ideology that is intent on ruling the world. Those who follow islam are required to do what their imams tell them to do. If they don't they are not practicing true islam and are subject to death. You can bet there is a fatwa on the head of the guy in the video right now.

Bush has not got rid of that many generals. They were replaced because their plans were not working. Same aas you would replace a manager of a store that was losing money. Lincoln went through 5 generals before he found Grant during the civil war. One of the generals he fired ran against him in 1864. Generals that don't deliver get the ax, same as anyone else. Westmoreland was replaced in Vietnam. The president listens to what the generals have to say. He gives them the go ahead to do what they want to do. If the results are unsatisfactory they are replaced with someone that has another idea. It takes a lot of time and patience.

The president deals in long term strategies. The day to day stuff is handled by the lower ranks. Bush is NEVER involved in that level. And he never should be.

[truthmatters]

4

[Yurt]

truthmatters;116285]A war on Islam is feeding right into what the right wing of the Islamic religion wants us to do. I dont know how else to say it , that is an insane idea.

So you would not support stopping anarchy? For an anarchists goal is to get the world involved in total war/chaos.


My problem with the "feeding" train of thought is, if we follow this train to its logical conclusion, then at some point we must necessarily simply give in to the opponents wishes. I am not in the military or any "tough" guy, but, I know enough that if you are being hunted, your best chance of survival is to become the hunter. Islam may think they want a war with us, but they don't. They are chickshiiite hunters who think they have their prey cornered.

They are wrong. It is as simple as that. Wherever you have education and "modernity", you will not have much Islam. That is a fact, not an opinion.

[Gaffer]

A war on Islam is feeding right into what the right wing of the Islamic religion wants us to do. I dont know how else to say it , that is an insane idea.

He fired one of the original ones because he said we needed to go in with many more troops then Bush wanted.

Guess who was right?
He has not fired them for not doing the job he has micromanaged the war and gone against his own militarys advice.
I know people who deal with the highest ranks of the military and they have Hated Bush from the very start of this war.

Bush is not a desider he thinks he is ,He is hand fed what to think by Cheney and his advisers.

A war on islam is what we have going right now. It's being fought in a pc manner which pisses me off about Bush. It's not an insane idea, its a fact that we are eventually going to have to deal with.

There is a three way war going on here. AQ provides the radical meat to be chewed up by the western forces. iran provides the money and material and the libs here provide the propaganda and defeatism. It's entirely possible for the three combinations to bring this country down. After doing that they will turn on each other. The strongest will eventually come out on top. Each thinks they can control the others once their goal is achieved.

[truthmatters]

4

[Yurt]

No you may be at war with Islam but even GWB realised that would be insanity.

History is replete with the examples of how such an idea works out and it is not very well.

The "truth" is that Islam is at war with anything non islamic. The world belongs to Allah and muslims have a greater claim to it than you or I. Have you actually studied Islam? Have you actually gone to an islamic website and talked to muslims?

Yes or no.

[Sock Puppet]

No you may be at war with Islam but even GWB realised that would be insanity.

History is replete with the examples of how such an idea works out and it is not very well.
Are you saying it is insanity to go to war with Iran?

[Yurt]

Are you saying it is insanity to go to war with Iran?

How can we now, their sock puppet might be huge :coffee:

[Gaffer]

No you may be at war with Islam but even GWB realised that would be insanity.

History is replete with the examples of how such an idea works out and it is not very well.

Which is why he's placed his cards in one basket, iraq. If he can get a stable secular government going there with a stable economy it can change the face of the middle east. It will take 50 to 100 years to do it. And the radicals have to be put down hard. Future presidents will have to continue his policies there. But it will never succeed until iran is taken down.

[truthmatters]

4

[stephanie]

No future president is going to continue this war for one simple reason , they cant physically do it.

You see our military will be unable to do so.

The kids of the people who support this war(except the wealthy ones) are the only ones who will go serve.

The people who realise this war is VERY BAD for America are increasing in numbers.

Who are you goign to get to fight this war?

And you know all this, how??
Just because this is what you hear in your circle of friends, doesn't mean this is true...

But, if that's what you want to think...:poke:

[truthmatters]

4

[Gaffer]

No future president is going to continue this war for one simple reason , they cant physically do it.

You see our military will be unable to do so.

The kids of the people who support this war(except the wealthy ones) are the only ones who will go serve.

The people who realise this war is VERY BAD for America are increasing in numbers.

Who are you goign to get to fight this war?

The fighting in iraq will end soon. Either because we have defeated them there or you get your way and we run away from the region. Iraq was already a semi secular country when we invaded. Bush is counting on that to set up a secular government. He's hoping with some assistance the iraqi's will develop a strong democracy and become an influence in the area. On the strategic level it has promise, over a long period of time. On the tactical level it doesn't look so good.

[truthmatters]

4

[Gaffer]

You forget why Iraq had a secular government.

It was that shit cork Saddam.

Yeah he was shit but he was a cork in the bottle of hornets.

There is no way to contain the hornets now.


Iraq has never wanted to be a cohesive country and it is not going to want to be a country because we stay and kill more of them.

It was horrible mistake and you can not make this mistake just go away by making the same mistake over and over and over.

I haven't forgotten anything. Including WHY saddam was taken down. He was never a cork in the bottle. He was one of the hornets. And we can contain the hornets by burning the nest.

There was no mistake, saddam is dead and the war with AQ and the proxy iranians continues.

[truthmatters]

4

[Gaffer]

Are you unaware of all the religious violence in Iraq?

Do you realise every expert has deemed the Saddam AQ ties were non exsistant?

You are aware that the Iraqi countries infrastructure was intact before we got there?

EVERY ME expert would agree that Saddam kept the lid on sectarian violence durig his time.

You seem to be living in a separate reality from the rest of the world?

I don't live in the liberal world like you you do. I live in the real world.

We are back to every expert again? If you read something besides liberal fantasy sites you would know that there was plenty of evidence of saddams ties with al qaeda and hamas and hizbollah.

His infrastructure was not better than it is today. He didn't maintain it. He was too busy building palaces.

The only lid he keep on anything was what kept him in power.

You always say your glad he's gone but wish he was there. You can't have it both ways.

[nevadamedic]

I don't live in the liberal world like you you do. I live in the real world.

We are back to every expert again? If you read something besides liberal fantasy sites you would know that there was plenty of evidence of saddams ties with al qaeda and hamas and hizbollah.

His infrastructure was not better than it is today. He didn't maintain it. He was too busy building palaces.

The only lid he keep on anything was what kept him in power.

You always say your glad he's gone but wish he was there. You can't have it both ways.

:salute::salute::salute::salute::salute::salute: