Edwards proposes MANDATORY doctor visits, universal health care

[Little-Acorn]

It's a basic truism that government only has the power to force you to do what you don't want to. For those who want to rob banks, govt has the power to force them not to, by throwing them in jail.

But those who want to expand government into formerly-private fields like health care, may soon find out that the truism applies to them, too... and just as unpleasantly. Why they keep pushing for government coercion applied to the field of health care remains a mystery, but government (at least the liberal side of it) is proving happy to supply that coercion.

John Edwards, one of the major players in the Democrat race to expand government into every nook and cranny of American life, is now proposing to force people to visit the doctor whether they wanted to or not. I'm not sure what penalties he proposes for those dare to not obey him - such details are probably left to the fine print somewhere. But if he or similarly liberal Democrats are elected in 2008, we'll probably find out, and soon.

There seems to be a strange tendency among these people, to make everything compulsory that isn't forbidden. What is the limit (if any) to how far they will go?

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070902/ap_on_el_pr/edwards_2

Edwards backs mandatory preventive care

Sept. 2, 2007

by AMY LORENTZEN, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 30 minutes ago

TIPTON, Iowa - Democratic presidential hopeful John Edwards said on Sunday that his universal health care proposal would require that Americans go to the doctor for preventive care.

"It requires that everybody be covered. It requires that everybody get preventive care," he told a crowd sitting in lawn chairs in front of the Cedar County Courthouse. "If you are going to be in the system, you can't choose not to go to the doctor for 20 years. You have to go in and be checked and make sure that you are OK."

[Yurt]

Mandetory?


Do libs not understand what socialism is? I don't expect Edwards to understand, but, the greater populace of those who identify themselves as democrat? Sure, they have a different political ideology, but let's be real, do they really understand what socialism is?

There was a huge debate on socialism here about a year ago with some poster named, .... hmmm, don't remember, but he was an ass, don't call many posters that, then again, he admitted it and was proud of it. Anyways, there was talk on socialism. Don't the leebs know that their false id

[LiberalNation]

The last thing we need are the feds running healthcare. Besides with all the money we are spending on wars an such, it's just not practical right now.

[PostmodernProphet]

here are some practical steps the government can take to reduce the problems with health care, short of government take over....

1) standardization of coverage....shopping for health insurance is a nightmare....does this company cover the same thing as that company, twelve different combinatinations of deductible and copay, etc.....set up three different types of coverage.....a plan 1, 2, and 3, so consumers can compare apples and apples....

2) a serious injury fund....similar to that used by most states worker's compensation plans.....50% of health care costs are incurred by 2% of insured.....all insurers will pay into a serious injury fund and all medical costs of that 2% will be paid out of the pooled fund....this is intended to keep insurance companies from ditching seriously ill insureds....

3) eliminate punative damages in tort claims.....limit damages to actual damages.....

4) eliminate employer provided health care.....every person writes the check for the premiums for his own policy....

5) open up the current federal employee insurance plan to participation by anyone willing to pay the premium currently paid by the federal government....

[nevadamedic]

The last thing we need are the feds running healthcare. Besides with all the money we are spending on wars an such, it's just not practical right now.

If you vote Democrat in this election that's what will happen.

[actsnoblemartin]

How about edwards has to give every legal american 1200 bucks,every time he gets a haircut, it will definently help the economy.


It's a basic truism that government only has the power to force you to do what you don't want to. For those who want to rob banks, govt has the power to force them not to, by throwing them in jail.

But those who want to expand government into formerly-private fields like health care, may soon find out that the truism applies to them, too... and just as unpleasantly. Why they keep pushing for government coercion applied to the field of health care remains a mystery, but government (at least the liberal side of it) is proving happy to supply that coercion.

John Edwards, one of the major players in the Democrat race to expand government into every nook and cranny of American life, is now proposing to force people to visit the doctor whether they wanted to or not. I'm not sure what penalties he proposes for those dare to not obey him - such details are probably left to the fine print somewhere. But if he or similarly liberal Democrats are elected in 2008, we'll probably find out, and soon.

There seems to be a strange tendency among these people, to make everything compulsory that isn't forbidden. What is the limit (if any) to how far they will go?

---------------------------------------------------

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070902/ap_on_el_pr/edwards_2

Edwards backs mandatory preventive care

Sept. 2, 2007

by AMY LORENTZEN, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 30 minutes ago

TIPTON, Iowa - Democratic presidential hopeful John Edwards said on Sunday that his universal health care proposal would require that Americans go to the doctor for preventive care.

"It requires that everybody be covered. It requires that everybody get preventive care," he told a crowd sitting in lawn chairs in front of the Cedar County Courthouse. "If you are going to be in the system, you can't choose not to go to the doctor for 20 years. You have to go in and be checked and make sure that you are OK."

[Mr. P]

here are some practical steps the government can take to reduce the problems with health care, short of government take over....

1) standardization of coverage....shopping for health insurance is a nightmare....does this company cover the same thing as that company, twelve different combinatinations of deductible and copay, etc.....set up three different types of coverage.....a plan 1, 2, and 3, so consumers can compare apples and apples....

2) a serious injury fund....similar to that used by most states worker's compensation plans.....50% of health care costs are incurred by 2% of insured.....all insurers will pay into a serious injury fund and all medical costs of that 2% will be paid out of the pooled fund....this is intended to keep insurance companies from ditching seriously ill insureds....

3) eliminate punative damages in tort claims.....limit damages to actual damages.....

4) eliminate employer provided health care.....every person writes the check for the premiums for his own policy....

5) open up the current federal employee insurance plan to participation by anyone willing to pay the premium currently paid by the federal government....

:2up:

[Little-Acorn]

here are some practical steps the government can take to reduce the problems with health care, short of government take over....
Oh, goody. So you're going to have the government mandate only CERTAIN things, but not going to have them take over everything? At least, not in this first phase?

That makes me feel so much better. :lol:


1) standardization of coverage....
How?

Oh, yes. The government will punish COMPANIES for not providing one-size-fits-all policies that the government approves. Great idea. That gets us out from under government intrusion into health care, doesn't it.


shopping for health insurance is a nightmare....does this company cover the same thing as that company, twelve different combinatinations of deductible and copay, etc.
Well, that sounds pretty serious to me. It's almost as bad as shopping for apples. There are a LOT more than twelve different types of apples, you know. This must be even a worse "nightmare"! And God help us when it's time to buy shoes. How will we ever cope without government helping us?


....set up three different types of coverage.....a plan 1, 2, and 3, so consumers can compare apples and apples....
Sorry, I stand corrected. THREE sizes fits all. And you still haven't gotten around to telling us what happens if anyone dares to not obey the government mandates that put this scheme in place (government doesn't make "suggestions", you know).


2) a serious injury fund....similar to that used by most states worker's compensation plans.....50% of health care costs are incurred by 2% of insured.....all insurers will pay into a serious injury fund and all medical costs of that 2% will be paid out of the pooled fund....this is intended to keep insurance companies from ditching seriously ill insureds....
This is indeed a problem (companies ditching seriously injured insureds). The companies will handle it, of course, by simply raising ALL premiums, including those on uninjured people, people who take far fewer chances, etc. Some will be unable to afford the increase, and will drop their coverage. Nice job! Government comes through again, in their usual heavy-handed fashion.

Ditching is a problem, but government is no solution.


3) eliminate punative(sic) damages in tort claims.....limit damages to actual damages.....
Excellent proposal. Such claims are a legitimate part of govenment, and are being abused by ignorant juries (NOT by lawyers, who are simply following current government rules). Those rules need to be changed.


4) eliminate employer provided health care.....every person writes the check for the premiums for his own policy....
Kudoes. The best proposal of all, by far.


5) open up the current federal employee insurance plan to participation by anyone willing to pay the premium currently paid by the federal government....
Ummm... you just eliminated employer provided health care, remember? In your "proposal No. 4". So there is no more Federal employee insurance plan.

You're a little mixed up, though you do make a few excellent suggestions, sprinkled in among all the fecal material. Your biggest mistake lies in your proposal #1, where you assume people are too stupid to sort out and buy their own insurance. It's the liberal mindset to a T: The masses are too ignorant, can't handle their own lives without assistance... and, even more absurdly, that assistance must come from the government for some reason.

Would you hire the local car mechanic to design and build a computer for you? Would you contract with the local computer geek to do brain surgery on you? Or even provide "assistance" to a real surgeon, and require him to follow it? Why on earth would you think those people would be at all competent to do those other jobs? And by the same token, why would anybody think that government is better at providing insurance than private insurance companies? Or giving "assistance" and requiring insurance comanies to follow it?

The free market is far from perfect, of course. But it's the only way we've found that rewards companies for providing what their clients want. Government coercion certainly doesn't. As I pointed out in the OP, government's only ability, is to punish people and force them to do what they didn't want to. In some cases that's good (bank robbers etc.) But it certainly isn't for market functions... aside, of course, from prosecuting and punishing fraud, theft, etc. - a legitimate government function.

Sometimes I think that liberals regard government the way savages regard idols. It's all-powerful, all-seeing, all-knowing, and can dole out its benefits at no cost, with no adverse impacts. Of course, none of those things are true, and you have to wonder about the basic rationality of people who try to make laws as though they were. And worse, who try to force the rest of us to obey their kooky visions.

[darin]

The VA Home-Loan system has 2% added to every loan, which goes back into the system to fund other loans. Working something like that in - so when ppl get a bill using the proposed Federal benefits, they get charged +2% may work.

[glockmail]

Mandetory?


Do libs not understand what socialism is? I don't expect Edwards to understand, but, the greater populace of those who identify themselves as democrat? Sure, they have a different political ideology, but let's be real, do they really understand what socialism is?

There was a huge debate on socialism here about a year ago with some poster named, .... hmmm, don't remember, but he was an ass, don't call many posters that, then again, he admitted it and was proud of it. Anyways, there was talk on socialism. Don't the leebs know that their false id Shit Yurt this is beyond that. If its mandatory then it's communism pure and simple.

[retiredman]

Shit Yurt this is beyond that. If its mandatory then it's communism pure and simple.

mandatory doctor's exams for qualification for some form of nationalized healthcare are the defining element of Karl Marx's vision? I had no idea that the dialectic and the labor theory of value and the dictatorship of the proletariat could all be distilled into that singular issue.

Do mandatory eye exams for driver's licenses do the same thing?

[glockmail]

mandatory doctor's exams for qualification for some form of nationalized healthcare are the defining element of Karl Marx's vision? I had no idea that the dialectic and the labor theory of value and the dictatorship of the proletariat could all be distilled into that singular issue.
....


Well I guess you'd be the expert on communism, being a subscriber and all. Me, being a simple country boy just know when shit stinks and prefer to keep it as far away as possible instead of analyzing its subtle points. :pee:

Or perhaps living in that self-described barn of yours has de-sensitized your olfactory response.

[retiredman]

Well I guess you'd be the expert on communism, being a subscriber and all. Me, being a simple country boy just know when shit stinks and prefer to keep it as far away as possible instead of analyzing its subtle points. :pee:

Or perhaps living in that self-described barn of yours has de-sensitized your olfactory response.

I did, in fact, spend a great deal of time studying communism as an undergrad... and then as part of my military career. I have no problem if you want to say that Edwards' universal health care proposals "stink"... I just point out that they are no more "communism pure and simple" than eye exams for drivers licenses are. All the political ideas that you don't happen to like, do not, therefore, automatically qualify as communism pure and simple... that was my only point: your misuse of the word.

and I must say I am really impressed with your repetitive use of the "pee" smilie.... it is apparently thematic for you.

[glockmail]

I did, in fact, spend a great deal of time studying communism as an undergrad... ....

and I must say I am really impressed with your repetitive use of the "pee" smilie.... it is apparently thematic for you.

Nice that you admit to being a convert, comrade.

Yeah this pretty much sums up my thoughts on most of your opinions. :pee:

[retiredman]

Nice that you admit to being a convert, comrade.

Yeah this pretty much sums up my thoughts on most of your opinions. :pee:


I think you misunderstood me. I studied communism as part of my career with the Navy. Military theorists from the days of Sun Tzu have advocated thoroughly understanding the enemy... my studies were always in that light.

[glockmail]

I think you misunderstood me. I studied communism as part of my career with the Navy. Military theorists from the days of Sun Tzu have advocated thoroughly understanding the enemy... my studies were always in that light. Based on your political leanings, you've ventured over closer to the enemy side, comrad. Your profs are rolling in their graves.

[retiredman]

Based on your political leanings, you've ventured over closer to the enemy side, comrad. Your profs are rolling in their graves.


I beg to disagree. I find nothing of interest in communism... and what makes you think that my professors are dead?

[glockmail]

I beg to disagree. I find nothing of interest in communism... and what makes you think that my professors are dead? They'd surely be dead if they knew you'd turned red.

[retiredman]

They'd surely be dead if they knew you'd turned red.

if pigs had wings, away they'd fly.

I already stated that I hadn't "turned red", so what is your point?

[glockmail]

if pigs had wings, away they'd fly.

I already stated that I hadn't "turned red", so what is your point? You can claim to be a patriot all you want but liberalism is on the path to communism.

[retiredman]

You can claim to be a patriot all you want but liberalism is on the path to communism.

since you've already proven you don't know the first thing about communism, one wonders how you can possibly make that statement. Is that something catchy you picked up on conservative talk radio?

[glockmail]

since you've already proven you don't know the first thing about communism, one wonders how you can possibly make that statement. Is that something catchy you picked up on conservative talk radio?
So where did I prove that? Do you deny that the obvious progression of liberalism is communism?

[retiredman]

where did you prove that? here:


Shit Yurt this is beyond that. If its mandatory then it's communism pure and simple.


mandatory doctor's exams for qualification for some form of nationalized healthcare are the defining element of Karl Marx's vision? I had no idea that the dialectic and the labor theory of value and the dictatorship of the proletariat could all be distilled into that singular issue.

Do mandatory eye exams for driver's licenses do the same thing?


Well I guess you'd be the expert on communism, being a subscriber and all. Me, being a simple country boy just know when shit stinks and prefer to keep it as far away as possible instead of analyzing its subtle points. :pee:
.

and I absolutely deny that the "obvious progression of liberalism is communism". Nowhere in liberal theory does the idea of overthrowing the ruling class and replacing it with a dictatorship of the proletariat come into play. No American liberal theorist of any note has ever advocated elimating property rights, and property itself has no value in true communism - the only value of anything being the work that went into creating it. Like I said.... you don't know shit about communism, so you should keep your liberal-bashing more general in tone.... when you drift into areas where you have zero knowledge, your arguments lose credibilty.

[glockmail]

where did you prove that? here:
....

and I absolutely deny that the "obvious progression of liberalism is communism". Nowhere in liberal theory does the idea of overthrowing the ruling class and replacing it with a dictatorship of the proletariat come into play. No American liberal theorist of any note has ever advocated elimating property rights, and property itself has no value in true communism - the only value of anything being the work that went into creating it. Like I said.... you don't know shit about communism, so you should keep your liberal-bashing more general in tone.... when you drift into areas where you have zero knowledge, your arguments lose credibilty.

Far be it for me to disagree with a commie.

But actually American Liberalism has already taken away property rights. Just look at wetlands legislation, and "greenways" along creeks and rivers. Its not a stretch at all to see where this will all end, and the true agenda of The Left. :pee:

[retiredman]

Far be it for me to disagree with a commie.

But actually American Liberalism has already taken away property rights. Just look at wetlands legislation, and "greenways" along creeks and rivers. Its not a stretch at all to see where this will all end, and the true agenda of The Left. :pee:


disagree with commies all you like. It would be a wise move for you to not spend a lot of time disagreeing with me about communism, however. As I stated before, I spent a great deal of time - on YOUR tax dollars - studying the military and political systems of our former enemies... and it is fairly evident that I have forgotten more about communism than you have ever known.

Eminent domain is not communism. and it does remove all value from property...it pays market rate for it when it confiscates it for the greater good. We wouldn't have a railroad or an interstate highway system without such governmental powers

[glockmail]

disagree with commies all you like. It would be a wise move for you to not spend a lot of time disagreeing with me about communism, however. As I stated before, I spent a great deal of time - on YOUR tax dollars - studying the military and political systems of our former enemies... and it is fairly evident that I have forgotten more about communism than you have ever known.

Eminent domain is not communism. and it does remove all value from property...it pays market rate for it when it confiscates it for the greater good. We wouldn't have a railroad or an interstate highway system without such governmental powers

It looks like my tax dollars were wasted, as I'm demonstrating here yet again.

Under the policies that I referenced, the guv'mint doesn't provide "just compensation" for wetlands or greenways. The owner of the land still keeps the property. It has simply been devalued to zero or nearly so.

[retiredman]

It looks like my tax dollars were wasted, as I'm demonstrating here yet again.

Under the policies that I referenced, the guv'mint doesn't provide "just compensation" for wetlands or greenways. The owner of the land still keeps the property. It has simply been devalued to zero or nearly so.

my point was: how do you get from eminent domain to the labor theory of value? answer: you don't.

but hey, by your own admission, you are just a simple country boy who doesn't really understand communism in specific or political philosophy in general and relies solely on your sense of smell....what a rustic talent that is!

[glockmail]

my point was: how do you get from eminent domain to the labor theory of value? answer: you don't.

but hey, by your own admission, you are just a simple country boy who doesn't really understand communism in specific or political philosophy in general and relies solely on your sense of smell....what a rustic talent that is!

You're the one who mentioned eminent domain as a failed response to my right-on-point issue of the government taking away property rights.

You should instead admit that you lost that point, and then ask "what's next?" The answer to that, of course, is limitations on freedom of speech, punitive taxation, gun control, and policies to take over large sectors of the private economy: all hallmarks of liberal policies, and a slippery slope towards socialism, and eventually, communism.

[Sitarro]

if pigs had wings, away they'd fly.


It's doubtful pigs would fly with whatever wings you would try to attach to them even with the help of a catapult. They might make cute little boats though, paint them battleship gray, put a number on them and all aboard.

Did you learn any good recipes from the communist you studied under? Bet the guys you cooked for hated "Commie night", what does gruel taste like? Do they use a lot of "red" pepper?:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[avatar4321]

Edwards wants to make it official. He wants the government shoving something up everyones ass.

[glockmail]

It's doubtful pigs would fly with whatever wings you would try to attach to them even with the help of a catapult. They might make cute little boats though, paint them battleship gray, put a number on them and all aboard.

Did you learn any good recipes from the communist you studied under? Bet the guys you cooked for hated "Commie night", what does gruel taste like? Do they use a lot of "red" pepper?:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2: Careful maineman wil accuse you of being a glock-robot or like term that he's bestowed upon 1/2 dozen or so others who dare disagree with him. :laugh2:

[typomaniac]

The only thing that reminds me of a Communist in this thread is the "Little Nut" in the OP. He's just like the "Speaker" in every North Korean home that you can't completely turn off, shouting endlessly about how brilliant the right wing's leaders are.

:pee: on him and everyone else in this thread. (Except Maine, of course!)

[retiredman]

It's doubtful pigs would fly with whatever wings you would try to attach to them even with the help of a catapult. They might make cute little boats though, paint them battleship gray, put a number on them and all aboard.

Did you learn any good recipes from the communist you studied under? Bet the guys you cooked for hated "Commie night", what does gruel taste like? Do they use a lot of "red" pepper?:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

It is really a pretty funny story. My first week on observation post duty, all they reall told me was that I was responsible for cooking dinner for four two nights during the week. My first week was with a frenchman, a swede and an argentinian.... we drew straws and I had to cook night three and night seven. Night one, the frenchman had rack of lamb with fresh asparagus...a bottle of pinot noir accompanying it... nice coffee and brandy after dinner. Night two was the swede with a lovely ethnic dish casserole and shots of aqua vite for dessert.. Then my turn and I prepared beans and weenies. more classic gourmet food until night seven when I cooked burgers and fries.

When I got back to base after that week, the head of Observer Group Lebanon, a US Army colonel, called me and told me to report to his quarters which I did...he aske me if it was true that I had prepared beans and weenies and hamburgers and fries for my two observation post meals...I admitted that that was true...he then said.... Lieutenant....UN military observers do two things: they look and they cook, and I want US members to do both better than any other contingent. I am ordering you to get yourself a cookbook and really impress your next OP team. I saluted and drove to the US embassy in Tel Avic where I bought Pierre Franey's "60 minute gourmet".... from then on, every UNMO was volunteering to serve with me, because not only could I look, I could cook.

[Gaffer]

It is really a pretty funny story. My first week on observation post duty, all they reall told me was that I was responsible for cooking dinner for four two nights during the week. My first week was with a frenchman, a swede and an argentinian.... we drew straws and I had to cook night three and night seven. Night one, the frenchman had rack of lamb with fresh asparagus...a bottle of pinot noir accompanying it... nice coffee and brandy after dinner. Night two was the swede with a lovely ethnic dish casserole and shots of aqua vite for dessert.. Then my turn and I prepared beans and weenies. more classic gourmet food until night seven when I cooked burgers and fries.

When I got back to base after that week, the head of Observer Group Lebanon, a US Army colonel, called me and told me to report to his quarters which I did...he aske me if it was true that I had prepared beans and weenies and hamburgers and fries for my two observation post meals...I admitted that that was true...he then said.... Lieutenant....UN military observers do two things: they look and they cook, and I want US members to do both better than any other contingent. I am ordering you to get yourself a cookbook and really impress your next OP team. I saluted and drove to the US embassy in Tel Avic where I bought Pierre Franey's "60 minute gourmet".... from then on, every UNMO was volunteering to serve with me, because not only could I look, I could cook.

The stress must have been just incredible.

[retiredman]

The stress must have been just incredible.

the cooking was not stressful in the least... the daily patrolling of our sector was.